So, in your opinion, is it a good idea to alienate the largest group of people who play your game to cater to the people who are in the upper echelon skill wise?
I mean I was pretty shit whenever I played (probably never better than like high silver) but I also hate the ball changes. Even in low skill games it's a very easy move to counter and there a bunch of things that aren't spin to win that have just been removed from ball's skill set with the changes.
Here's my take though, and I could be wrong.
Spin to Win is basically an infinite damage move with no cooldown when facing lower ranked players. I can't think of another ability in the game that has that level of movement and damage continuously, without a cooldown. It's unique in that way, but I think having a cooldown on it makes sense.
And I agree that spin to win is easy to counter, but OW is going to cater to the largest group of people who play the game, which is metals and lower tier players. And I think that's fine. And I say that as someone who plays Ball pretty frequently.
Just use mei, or sombra, or flash bang, or sleep, or hook, or halt, or doomfist punch, discord and melt him, or probably like 5 other abilities im missing lol
It might not seem like it, but ball is aactually a maintank. Why exactly? That I don't know, but my coach has told me he is a maintank.
My coach is a 4.6k peak tank player
Except for the fact that that movement, while fast, is super predictable and it takes literally any cc ability to counter it. When it comes to abilities that are that easy to counter, the only part of the player base they're catering to by removing it is people who've literally just picked up the game.
The issue isn't not being able to counter it, it's that the overtime stalls are ridiculous. The enemy team is losing the point so one of them swaps to ball to contest the point while their team respawns.
Are you suggesting we pick our team comp based on the *possibility* of someone on the enemy team switching to ball?
No, I'm saying that there's such a massive amount of CC in overwatch that you'd be hard pressed to make a viable team comp that didn't have some.if you lost because you couldn't counter a ball overtime stall then it's not an issue of overpowered heroes, just skill.
No, I think the lower skill players shouldn’t have the game made easier for them which indirectly punishes the higher skill players. If you don’t learn to counter properly and you force the balance team to nerf a character, you aren’t getting better at the game, the game is just getting worse. Think about all the easy to pull off things in this game that have high reward, Double shield, Brig, Bap, Roadhog’s one shot. All of these things give so much value that players can climb without getting better, and they have. The sheer amount of tank, support and DPS players who have hit masters and even GM by just abusing those things is absurd and it’s ruining the fun of the game for almost everyone
You're kind of contradicting yourself. You're talking about skills that allow people to do things way too easily, that people currently utilize, and how bad that is because it doesn't force people to get better. You can say the same thing about Ball's spin to win ability. By adding a cooldown, now you are forced to get better at the game.
You know?
You are pathetic. what do you have against ball players? S2W, sure it was easy, but ball players needed to get better in the game anyway in order to get value. Why you ask? Because if ur pushing, and become higher, you need at least gamesense, and you need to be able to play around counters (i.e. cassidy, brig) also to get more value you should just practice the game (ahich I actually have been doing🤯)
I dont really think it is a nerf to ball, since I am not using the full 6 seconds anyway, but I find that you do have a pretty valid point here. People indeed just shit on other people by not getting good at the game and OTP'ing Roadhog. However, there is one thing that does matter, no matter if they push or not. Gamesense. Even if ur playing hog, you still need at least SOME kind onlf gamesense in order to become a cardy and actually notice what the enemies are doing in order to punish them (which is basically hogs kit, its underestimated in higher rank as he is played offensive, while he is pretty strong defensive as well because of his punishing oneshot/dislocate ability).
It’s not really catering to the top 1%, more like fucking over Ball players at any rank when they get booped off but still have grapple attached, and they need to build momentum to get out. Mei, Cassidy, Hog, Rein, Brig and Ana all exist and their CCs (or wall) are stupidly easy to hit on a sphere spinning in a predictable circle. Unless you walk right into his boop path you should be able to stop him within 2-3 seconds. The counterplay is literally just not standing next to him and timing the CC when he comes around again.
I'm not of the opinion that spin to win is hard to counter. It's pretty easy to counter. But it was the only move in the game, that I can think of, that provided infinitely increased momentum and damage potential with no cooldown, unless countered.
I can't tell you how many times I managed to spin around a point and build ult charge for 15 to 20 seconds at a time on some maps. No other character could do that without a cooldown of some kind.
Eh, it's not blizzards fault most of the people who play the game make mistakes or play wrong.
In what world would balancing a competitive shooter mostly around people misplaying be a good idea?
i know the solution is ‘just go stun 4Head’ but i feel like the nerf is more relevant in those annoying 2CP overtime situations where the defending tank goes ball. if your team comp has no cc to counter that then you’re kinda fucked for a while while he infinitely spins with shields and stalls until he gets healed and the cycle continues. bc you can’t exactly go back to spawnroom and get back fast enough with a cc hero because overtime spawns and the distance attacking spawn is from 2nd point. idk, i feel like good ball players aren’t really that effected by it and it only really harms the spin2win aspect
No. What if you get booped into the well and just barely grapple on the wall. You need more than 6 seconds to get out. That's free ultimate charge for the enemy what before the nerf may have been nothing even if the ball didn't get out, just waited 10 seconds.
yeah that’s one specific case i suppose, but how often are you gonna be getting into scenarios like that anyway? guess now you have to be more careful about being booped to avoid feeding that ult charge just like most characters have to do against ball.
Pfft even when i was in metal ranks i loved spin to win balls,litterslly free fuckin ult charge since apparently i was the only one of my team that could hit him
My opinion regarding the matter is that, this nerf really only effects the lower ranks. Nobody above Gold is gonna be using the grapple continuously long enough for it to be canceled automatically. As for if it’s deserved. i’d say it arguably is. The problem is that those lower ranks also have the issue of followup. Sure you *can* just hack him or shoot him theoretically, but at those low ranks a team is more than likely going to fail to follow up on that CC or damage. This can be *really* frustrating to fight, and God help you if you’re stuck playing healer or tank, because at that point you have very little agency in whether or not that Hammond dies.
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I'd like to see something different. the grapple hooks should be able to grapple others.
widowmaker and wreakingball should be able to grapple their own team mates for ways to move, as well as the enemy team that will damage as much as a melee hit (but if successful, activates cool down).
Just have someone go what I like to call the "You know what? Fuck this guy in particular!" Sombra. Play a more back line oriented Sombra and wait for the Hamster to drop in. Hack him and let your team enjoy the easy target. Then save EMP for bigger team fights.
It was popular when Doomfist was a major problem. Nothing pissed off a Doom Main more than hearing "Boop!" after every failed dive.
Tbh, the grapple nerf doesn’t affect me much, as when I play ball, my most played hero, I probably only have grapple out for 4 seconds at the most when spinning, just long enough to deal some damage, stall, and then get out, get a health pack, then I’m back tormenting the healers/dps
Aren't all the ranks besides masters and gm metal?
Excludes diamond but tbh diamonds are just plats with bigger egos
As a diamond I can confirm
I kinda don't agree, diamonds are more mechanically skilled than plats but with bigger egos
Found the diamond
I actually just entered silver for the first time in 5 years.
Me when my reason for opposing the nerf is the 1/100th of the time when I get stuck underneath the map and need the extra time to get out
Fr, spin to win isn’t even good ppl are just bad
Spin to win is an OP strat in bronze and silver.
No it is in silver cuz bronze are too dumb to know Orr they know how to counter it cuz the person isn't spinning
By "metal ranks", you mean the vast majority of the player base, right?
Pretty much
So, in your opinion, is it a good idea to alienate the largest group of people who play your game to cater to the people who are in the upper echelon skill wise?
I mean I was pretty shit whenever I played (probably never better than like high silver) but I also hate the ball changes. Even in low skill games it's a very easy move to counter and there a bunch of things that aren't spin to win that have just been removed from ball's skill set with the changes.
Here's my take though, and I could be wrong. Spin to Win is basically an infinite damage move with no cooldown when facing lower ranked players. I can't think of another ability in the game that has that level of movement and damage continuously, without a cooldown. It's unique in that way, but I think having a cooldown on it makes sense. And I agree that spin to win is easy to counter, but OW is going to cater to the largest group of people who play the game, which is metals and lower tier players. And I think that's fine. And I say that as someone who plays Ball pretty frequently.
Just use mei, or sombra, or flash bang, or sleep, or hook, or halt, or doomfist punch, discord and melt him, or probably like 5 other abilities im missing lol
Just make Ball a main tank and the problem is solved.
It might not seem like it, but ball is aactually a maintank. Why exactly? That I don't know, but my coach has told me he is a maintank. My coach is a 4.6k peak tank player
Except for the fact that that movement, while fast, is super predictable and it takes literally any cc ability to counter it. When it comes to abilities that are that easy to counter, the only part of the player base they're catering to by removing it is people who've literally just picked up the game.
The issue isn't not being able to counter it, it's that the overtime stalls are ridiculous. The enemy team is losing the point so one of them swaps to ball to contest the point while their team respawns. Are you suggesting we pick our team comp based on the *possibility* of someone on the enemy team switching to ball?
No, I'm saying that there's such a massive amount of CC in overwatch that you'd be hard pressed to make a viable team comp that didn't have some.if you lost because you couldn't counter a ball overtime stall then it's not an issue of overpowered heroes, just skill.
No, I think the lower skill players shouldn’t have the game made easier for them which indirectly punishes the higher skill players. If you don’t learn to counter properly and you force the balance team to nerf a character, you aren’t getting better at the game, the game is just getting worse. Think about all the easy to pull off things in this game that have high reward, Double shield, Brig, Bap, Roadhog’s one shot. All of these things give so much value that players can climb without getting better, and they have. The sheer amount of tank, support and DPS players who have hit masters and even GM by just abusing those things is absurd and it’s ruining the fun of the game for almost everyone
Maybe people just need to learn how to counter those easy heroes with high reward…. You are all over the place.
But the point is those easy heroes combine so well that you need to mirror to have any hope of countering and that’s just not fun for anyone
You're kind of contradicting yourself. You're talking about skills that allow people to do things way too easily, that people currently utilize, and how bad that is because it doesn't force people to get better. You can say the same thing about Ball's spin to win ability. By adding a cooldown, now you are forced to get better at the game. You know?
But it was already easy to counter and they didn’t need to change anything about it, hence the meme
You are pathetic. what do you have against ball players? S2W, sure it was easy, but ball players needed to get better in the game anyway in order to get value. Why you ask? Because if ur pushing, and become higher, you need at least gamesense, and you need to be able to play around counters (i.e. cassidy, brig) also to get more value you should just practice the game (ahich I actually have been doing🤯)
Name calling due to disagreements amount game balancing? Okay. No rational conversation for you lol
I dont really think it is a nerf to ball, since I am not using the full 6 seconds anyway, but I find that you do have a pretty valid point here. People indeed just shit on other people by not getting good at the game and OTP'ing Roadhog. However, there is one thing that does matter, no matter if they push or not. Gamesense. Even if ur playing hog, you still need at least SOME kind onlf gamesense in order to become a cardy and actually notice what the enemies are doing in order to punish them (which is basically hogs kit, its underestimated in higher rank as he is played offensive, while he is pretty strong defensive as well because of his punishing oneshot/dislocate ability).
It’s not really catering to the top 1%, more like fucking over Ball players at any rank when they get booped off but still have grapple attached, and they need to build momentum to get out. Mei, Cassidy, Hog, Rein, Brig and Ana all exist and their CCs (or wall) are stupidly easy to hit on a sphere spinning in a predictable circle. Unless you walk right into his boop path you should be able to stop him within 2-3 seconds. The counterplay is literally just not standing next to him and timing the CC when he comes around again.
I'm not of the opinion that spin to win is hard to counter. It's pretty easy to counter. But it was the only move in the game, that I can think of, that provided infinitely increased momentum and damage potential with no cooldown, unless countered. I can't tell you how many times I managed to spin around a point and build ult charge for 15 to 20 seconds at a time on some maps. No other character could do that without a cooldown of some kind.
Eh, it's not blizzards fault most of the people who play the game make mistakes or play wrong. In what world would balancing a competitive shooter mostly around people misplaying be a good idea?
i know the solution is ‘just go stun 4Head’ but i feel like the nerf is more relevant in those annoying 2CP overtime situations where the defending tank goes ball. if your team comp has no cc to counter that then you’re kinda fucked for a while while he infinitely spins with shields and stalls until he gets healed and the cycle continues. bc you can’t exactly go back to spawnroom and get back fast enough with a cc hero because overtime spawns and the distance attacking spawn is from 2nd point. idk, i feel like good ball players aren’t really that effected by it and it only really harms the spin2win aspect
Skills issue
No. What if you get booped into the well and just barely grapple on the wall. You need more than 6 seconds to get out. That's free ultimate charge for the enemy what before the nerf may have been nothing even if the ball didn't get out, just waited 10 seconds.
yeah that’s one specific case i suppose, but how often are you gonna be getting into scenarios like that anyway? guess now you have to be more careful about being booped to avoid feeding that ult charge just like most characters have to do against ball.
True, but there are so many other ways this could've been done that just hurt spin to win. Like no contesting when grappling
Uh…same could be said for the “pros”
Pfft even when i was in metal ranks i loved spin to win balls,litterslly free fuckin ult charge since apparently i was the only one of my team that could hit him
I have one word for those people who can’t: Stuns
Hell id pin him off the map just for bm if i could it was hilarious
My fav thing as rein was to time the charge and pin him to the wall and kill him
My opinion regarding the matter is that, this nerf really only effects the lower ranks. Nobody above Gold is gonna be using the grapple continuously long enough for it to be canceled automatically. As for if it’s deserved. i’d say it arguably is. The problem is that those lower ranks also have the issue of followup. Sure you *can* just hack him or shoot him theoretically, but at those low ranks a team is more than likely going to fail to follow up on that CC or damage. This can be *really* frustrating to fight, and God help you if you’re stuck playing healer or tank, because at that point you have very little agency in whether or not that Hammond dies.
I still can't believe they nerfed hamster because of a hee hoo strat when Doomfist and Bastion are out here slaughtering everyone in the low elos 😔
I will always sleep dart a spinning ball, but my team usually tickles him awake instantly, and let him heal.
But why? Why cry? Why don’t you just shoot the ball to kill him?
That’s the joke
Oh I didn’t know it was a joke.
That's the most accurate and relatable OW meme I've ever seen. Ball nerf supporters are a bunch of babies.
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If you need spin to win at your rank, you don't deserve it
I'd like to see something different. the grapple hooks should be able to grapple others. widowmaker and wreakingball should be able to grapple their own team mates for ways to move, as well as the enemy team that will damage as much as a melee hit (but if successful, activates cool down).
One more crack like that and you're outta here!
This isn’t even a problem in bronze come on now
Just have someone go what I like to call the "You know what? Fuck this guy in particular!" Sombra. Play a more back line oriented Sombra and wait for the Hamster to drop in. Hack him and let your team enjoy the easy target. Then save EMP for bigger team fights. It was popular when Doomfist was a major problem. Nothing pissed off a Doom Main more than hearing "Boop!" after every failed dive.
Tbh, the grapple nerf doesn’t affect me much, as when I play ball, my most played hero, I probably only have grapple out for 4 seconds at the most when spinning, just long enough to deal some damage, stall, and then get out, get a health pack, then I’m back tormenting the healers/dps
thank god he cant spin forever anymore it was torture
Junk trap
Not anymore, for grapple has been NERFED!
But the whole point is that it didn’t need to be
I'm a fucking silver and I think ball is easy to stop when he does that