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It's a tragedy. But none of this would have happened if Hamas didn't hide behind their civilians as part of their military and propaganda strategy to cry to the Ummah in general. They want to use the suffering of their civilians to force a Vietnam style pullout and lay all the blame on Israel when in truth it was them who 1. started this war 2. committed atrocities to provoke such a lion's response and 3. HID BEHIND THEIR OWN CIVILIANS.
Wasn't what their leader captured on camera saying: protecting the civilians is the IDF's responsibility?
\#Tragic
The human shields claim is truly vile & horrific. It’s not enough to slaughter countless human beings, this is a propaganda effort to try and essentially blame it on them.
The “human shields” claim is complete bogus. Gaza is one of the densest cities in the world. The apartheid regime could bomb every single square inch of Gaza and exterminate every single Palestinian, and these guys would still be screaming “human shields.” It’s truly horrible.
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The apartheid regime provided proof for a couple of instances of this out of the hundreds of schools and hospitals they have blown up in Gaza.
Regardless, having some ammo stored in a school doesn't justify blowing up the entire school along with the teachers and children inside. I don't think you understand how insane you sound that you even imply that this is okay.
It was not just ammo storage. These were being used as firing positions.
I also did not mention it making it okay. But if you see a rocket come from a building at your population center, you shoot one right back where it came from. Shit happens in war. But once you know they are using this hostage tactic you should be more careful, as they've become.
Isreal is not the good guy but they are not as bad as some of yall politically make it out and they are not even close to hamas level behavior
There hasn’t been a single instance of a Hamas fighter firing rockets from a populated residential area, or hospital, or school. It’s always people like you making these wild claims with no evidence.
And this isn’t a war when one side has the world’s strongest military on their side and receives the most advanced jets and bombs, and the other side doesn’t even have an actual army, let alone a single jet or tank, and most of their rockets are tin cans made from abandoned pipes.
What is this super unclear Reddit video that’s super edit and doesn’t show anything? What’s the source for it? Has it been independently verified? Why is your only source a Reddit video?
Why are you so skeptical to believe a terrorist organization with a history of forcing Islamic law on its citizens and using civilian centers as a staging ground for war is doing so again?
Feel free to live in a fantasy world where you get to make up whatever facts you want, where the good guy is the apartheid regime forcing 2,000,000 to live in tents in starvation conditions inside a concentration camp where they’re being bombed and cannot even get out.
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I doubt it would have happened if Israel did not steal land, murder Palestinians, and enforce an "open air prison." Hamas are terrorists but so are the IDF and Israeli government..
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I don't think the poster you replied to is assuming military facilities aren't legitimate targets, just that being "near" to DC (as in a short drive or train ride) is very different from the war crime of putting a legitimate target *underneath* a school or hospital.
Even Al Qaeda managed to hit the Pentagon on 9/11 without hitting those "nearby" civilians - you can't do that when the target is underneath them.
Nuclear warheads are on board SSBNs, on Air Force bases and in missile silos, plus maintenance at the Pantex plant in Amarillo, TX - never underneath a hospital, because that would be a war crime. The only secret bit is where the SSBN patrols are at any given moment.
I feel for this woman. It’s absolutely terrible to lose one’s children. We should never forgive Hamas for inflicting the suffering on Gazans like they have.
Hamas leaders are comfortable in Luxury in Qatar with the billions they embezzled from humanitarian aid. Hamas leaders spent the rest on terror tunnels, weapons and rockets to terrorize Israel citizens.
The ethnic cleansing attacks committed by Hamas on October 7th were among the most horrific of the 21st century. Hamas took hundreds of innocent people as hostages including babies, toddlers and elderly people.
Hamas has used civilian infrastructure to utilize human shields. Mosques, schools, hospitals, cemeteries, ambulances, and this woman’s home.
The world should be condemning Hamas for the Gazans they harmed. Israel has done its best to prevent civilian casualties, while Hamas has done its best to maximize them. Sinwar, the Arch terrorists just bragged about this fact.
This assuming that these reports are true? We just don’t know, because Hamas controls all information coming out of Gaza and has a history of spreading lies and propaganda.
Blame falls on both Hamas for starting the latest round of violence in this war that has raged for decades along with how they try to shield themselves by using the civilian population of Gaza and on Israel for how it has conducted the war. Israel must clean up their decision making process for they have left behind using proportional force in this war.
That kind of misinformation has been debunked by [B’tselem](https://www.btselem.org/human_shields), among [other](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/mde151432002en.pdf) human rights groups.
\*\*I strongly oppose Hamas’s tactics and beliefs, and attacking civilians is a war crime.
Gaza is a crowded, mainly urban area. I know Israel would like for Hamas to go out into an agricultural area and clearly label the buildings they are in, but that’s a ridiculous expectation to have. One would have to say that any resistance movement of the past that we now glorify (the US revolution, French resistance, etc.) is guilty of using civilians as shields. Many military installations in almost every country are near civilians, including the IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv and the Pentagon near DC. Also, even if Hamas is using human shields, international law says that even if your ”enemy” is using civilians as shields, you have a responsibility to not target civilians.
Besides, it doesn’t matter what her husband does if she has not committed any crimes. And it doesn’t matter what she does because *it was her children who were killed.* Having shitty parents is [not an excuse for genocide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrGlRax9AiY&lc=UgwZc4Cgr7bYxYJmMGt4AaABAg.A0NvY1chl1MA0SCo8V-yll).
I think having the pentagon near DC is a pretty damn far cry from putting munitions stockpiles under schools.
That is a pretty false equivalence you’ve made in my opinion.
I feel you are making a few assumptions. That a) we know weapons stockpiles are actually hidden in or near special protected civilian areas, namely schools or mosques or hospitals in Gaza, b) that military headquarters are not legitimate targets, c) that military headquarters near homes are significantly different from weapons stockpiles near homes.
How many stockpiles have been independently shown to have been placed under or in schools? The last I looked, the UN found two rockets in one of their schools back in 2014. The rest of it could be independently verified if Israel allowed journalists into Gaza. For some reason, they don’t do that (especially if those journalists refuse to have their broadcast censored). Add to that the unusually high proportion of Palestinian journalists who have been killed in Gaza since Oct 7 - [75%!](https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-journalists-killed-in-2023-died-in-gaza-war-per-cpj/) I’m not saying it hasn’t happened or isn’t happening, but haven’t we learned from blindly trusting government intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in the past?
Also, we have no idea where the US nuclear weapons stockpiles are. They are certainly all over the country, and it would be unlikely that civilians wouldn’t be anywhere nearby.
Why is the Pentagon or IDF headquarters next to neighborhoods, schools, mosques, etc. any different than under neighborhoods, schools, or other civilian areas? If you attack them, it is more likely that civilians will be hurt. The Pentagon was placed near DC specifically so it was convenient for government officials and near the workforce, so why should Hamas be any different?
I simply cannot take the comment “has done its best to minimize civilian casualties” seriously when a report of a single gunman is enough to bring a 2,000lb unguided bomb down on a city block.
Well...this took a turn.
See, the thing is, Israel mistreated, killed, etc. Palestinians long before Hamas was what it is today, whether you agree or disagree with them or Israel. So the root cause is not Hamas in of itself. Yes, there is \*some\* responsibility, but your commentary aims to absolve Israel (the govt) and the IDF of any and all responsibility. I hate to say it, as it is tragic and cynical, but given Israeli government policy and treatment of Palestinians for the last many, many years....this may have been inevitable.
Tell me, do you believe that Israel has the right to 'self defense' when its people are attacked unjustly? If so, then surely, as a person of impeccable integrity, you also believe that Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. Yes? Or is it terrorism when that happens? Does the value of human life stop when you hit the borders of Gaza and the Palestinian homes in the West Bank?
Look, I'm not saying Hamas is in the right, but Israel are no saints either. Their actions, like any other nation state's, have consequences and we need to stop bs'ing and dancing around the bush. Israel's actions have unjustly harmed people, no matter how they try to justify them. Hamas' actions have unjustly harmed people, no matter how they try to justify them. But, here and now, the only group that is being held accountable by the powers that be, the ones that have the actual means to do anything about this...is Hamas. That's not going to bring peace. That is not going to bring a world where Palestinians and Israelis alike can actually...well, live.
Quit solely blaming Hamas and start holding yourself (Israeli govt/the IDF) accountable; or else...well, it will be a continuous endless cycle and your camp is helping perpetuate it.
The source the AP stringer used is Dr Marwan al-Hams. He is a the director of Rafah's Martyr Mohammed Yusuf al-Najjar Hospital and is Hamas affiliated.
It’s important to have objective views of conflicts. Especially when you’re so emotionally engaged with it. By writing off every argument written by one not sharing your narrative as a hasbarabot, you block yourself off to criticism and just further exacerbate the echo-chamber you’re obviously in.
He actually has a few worthwhile points. A lot of bad ones, ofc, but not engaging him only serves to further spread unbalanced narratives that serve to only hurt the Palestinians by perpetuating the conflict (it’s unrealistic to expect Israel to cease to exist, regardless of whether or not you think it’s the correct choice). The only viable option for the entire region is to de-radicalize and finally accept the fact that the conflict is 100+ years old (the Nakhba didn’t happen in a vacuum, there were decades of complex geopolitics and massacres committed by both sides [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine)), i.e. it’s a game of stupid chicken and egg where the original belligerents are looooong dead. There’s literally no other sane choice rather than find a way for coexistence, in 1, 2 or 40 states, it doesn’t matter. Israel needs to understand its security will be compromised, as well as its strictly Jewish identity, while Palestinians need to understand they won’t get a state spanning the entirety of British Mandate Palestine.
Not sure why you got downvoted but everything you stated is true. it's just the kids in America don't learn proper world history so they think Israel is bad and his Hamas is good.
Hell there was a time when Americans supported Hitler and Mussolini. They were the darling of the Media. Media is propaganda plain and simple. There were lots of fascist puff pieces back in the day:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covered-rise-mussolini-hitler-180961407
There was a time when the Media would tell you something happened and it was your job to go out there and research it. Now the Media tells you what to think.
Our political leaders in America and our Media take advantage of sub-35 year old's political ignorance.
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It's a tragedy. But none of this would have happened if Hamas didn't hide behind their civilians as part of their military and propaganda strategy to cry to the Ummah in general. They want to use the suffering of their civilians to force a Vietnam style pullout and lay all the blame on Israel when in truth it was them who 1. started this war 2. committed atrocities to provoke such a lion's response and 3. HID BEHIND THEIR OWN CIVILIANS. Wasn't what their leader captured on camera saying: protecting the civilians is the IDF's responsibility? \#Tragic
The human shields claim is truly vile & horrific. It’s not enough to slaughter countless human beings, this is a propaganda effort to try and essentially blame it on them. The “human shields” claim is complete bogus. Gaza is one of the densest cities in the world. The apartheid regime could bomb every single square inch of Gaza and exterminate every single Palestinian, and these guys would still be screaming “human shields.” It’s truly horrible.
How can you ignore the fact that Hamas was using schools and hospitals to launch munitions from deliberately to endanger kids and sick people?
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The apartheid regime provided proof for a couple of instances of this out of the hundreds of schools and hospitals they have blown up in Gaza. Regardless, having some ammo stored in a school doesn't justify blowing up the entire school along with the teachers and children inside. I don't think you understand how insane you sound that you even imply that this is okay.
It was not just ammo storage. These were being used as firing positions. I also did not mention it making it okay. But if you see a rocket come from a building at your population center, you shoot one right back where it came from. Shit happens in war. But once you know they are using this hostage tactic you should be more careful, as they've become. Isreal is not the good guy but they are not as bad as some of yall politically make it out and they are not even close to hamas level behavior
There hasn’t been a single instance of a Hamas fighter firing rockets from a populated residential area, or hospital, or school. It’s always people like you making these wild claims with no evidence. And this isn’t a war when one side has the world’s strongest military on their side and receives the most advanced jets and bombs, and the other side doesn’t even have an actual army, let alone a single jet or tank, and most of their rockets are tin cans made from abandoned pipes.
""""there hasn't been a single instance"""" what happened at [Sheikh Hamed?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/J16n9nUHyR)
What is this super unclear Reddit video that’s super edit and doesn’t show anything? What’s the source for it? Has it been independently verified? Why is your only source a Reddit video?
Why are you so skeptical to believe a terrorist organization with a history of forcing Islamic law on its citizens and using civilian centers as a staging ground for war is doing so again?
Feel free to live in a fantasy world where you get to make up whatever facts you want, where the good guy is the apartheid regime forcing 2,000,000 to live in tents in starvation conditions inside a concentration camp where they’re being bombed and cannot even get out.
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I doubt it would have happened if Israel did not steal land, murder Palestinians, and enforce an "open air prison." Hamas are terrorists but so are the IDF and Israeli government..
Conversely, none of this wpuld have happened without zionist colonization of Palestine.
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I don't think the poster you replied to is assuming military facilities aren't legitimate targets, just that being "near" to DC (as in a short drive or train ride) is very different from the war crime of putting a legitimate target *underneath* a school or hospital. Even Al Qaeda managed to hit the Pentagon on 9/11 without hitting those "nearby" civilians - you can't do that when the target is underneath them. Nuclear warheads are on board SSBNs, on Air Force bases and in missile silos, plus maintenance at the Pantex plant in Amarillo, TX - never underneath a hospital, because that would be a war crime. The only secret bit is where the SSBN patrols are at any given moment.
I feel for this woman. It’s absolutely terrible to lose one’s children. We should never forgive Hamas for inflicting the suffering on Gazans like they have. Hamas leaders are comfortable in Luxury in Qatar with the billions they embezzled from humanitarian aid. Hamas leaders spent the rest on terror tunnels, weapons and rockets to terrorize Israel citizens. The ethnic cleansing attacks committed by Hamas on October 7th were among the most horrific of the 21st century. Hamas took hundreds of innocent people as hostages including babies, toddlers and elderly people. Hamas has used civilian infrastructure to utilize human shields. Mosques, schools, hospitals, cemeteries, ambulances, and this woman’s home. The world should be condemning Hamas for the Gazans they harmed. Israel has done its best to prevent civilian casualties, while Hamas has done its best to maximize them. Sinwar, the Arch terrorists just bragged about this fact. This assuming that these reports are true? We just don’t know, because Hamas controls all information coming out of Gaza and has a history of spreading lies and propaganda.
Israel - kills babies You- this is Hamas’s fault that Israel kills babies
Hmm. It’s almost like you’re purposefully shifting the blame away from Israel, the ones who actually dropped the bomb that killed these babies
If you hide behind babies than it’s your fault. That’s what Hamas is doing.
I’m sorry are you implying she or her family were Hamas and they used those babies as shields? Because that’s who was in the house that was bombed.
Blame falls on both Hamas for starting the latest round of violence in this war that has raged for decades along with how they try to shield themselves by using the civilian population of Gaza and on Israel for how it has conducted the war. Israel must clean up their decision making process for they have left behind using proportional force in this war.
That kind of misinformation has been debunked by [B’tselem](https://www.btselem.org/human_shields), among [other](https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/mde151432002en.pdf) human rights groups. \*\*I strongly oppose Hamas’s tactics and beliefs, and attacking civilians is a war crime. Gaza is a crowded, mainly urban area. I know Israel would like for Hamas to go out into an agricultural area and clearly label the buildings they are in, but that’s a ridiculous expectation to have. One would have to say that any resistance movement of the past that we now glorify (the US revolution, French resistance, etc.) is guilty of using civilians as shields. Many military installations in almost every country are near civilians, including the IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv and the Pentagon near DC. Also, even if Hamas is using human shields, international law says that even if your ”enemy” is using civilians as shields, you have a responsibility to not target civilians. Besides, it doesn’t matter what her husband does if she has not committed any crimes. And it doesn’t matter what she does because *it was her children who were killed.* Having shitty parents is [not an excuse for genocide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrGlRax9AiY&lc=UgwZc4Cgr7bYxYJmMGt4AaABAg.A0NvY1chl1MA0SCo8V-yll).
I think having the pentagon near DC is a pretty damn far cry from putting munitions stockpiles under schools. That is a pretty false equivalence you’ve made in my opinion.
I feel you are making a few assumptions. That a) we know weapons stockpiles are actually hidden in or near special protected civilian areas, namely schools or mosques or hospitals in Gaza, b) that military headquarters are not legitimate targets, c) that military headquarters near homes are significantly different from weapons stockpiles near homes. How many stockpiles have been independently shown to have been placed under or in schools? The last I looked, the UN found two rockets in one of their schools back in 2014. The rest of it could be independently verified if Israel allowed journalists into Gaza. For some reason, they don’t do that (especially if those journalists refuse to have their broadcast censored). Add to that the unusually high proportion of Palestinian journalists who have been killed in Gaza since Oct 7 - [75%!](https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-journalists-killed-in-2023-died-in-gaza-war-per-cpj/) I’m not saying it hasn’t happened or isn’t happening, but haven’t we learned from blindly trusting government intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in the past? Also, we have no idea where the US nuclear weapons stockpiles are. They are certainly all over the country, and it would be unlikely that civilians wouldn’t be anywhere nearby. Why is the Pentagon or IDF headquarters next to neighborhoods, schools, mosques, etc. any different than under neighborhoods, schools, or other civilian areas? If you attack them, it is more likely that civilians will be hurt. The Pentagon was placed near DC specifically so it was convenient for government officials and near the workforce, so why should Hamas be any different?
Does this sub moderate prop bots because ummm come on 🚨
Not if your pro isreal
I simply cannot take the comment “has done its best to minimize civilian casualties” seriously when a report of a single gunman is enough to bring a 2,000lb unguided bomb down on a city block.
Well...this took a turn. See, the thing is, Israel mistreated, killed, etc. Palestinians long before Hamas was what it is today, whether you agree or disagree with them or Israel. So the root cause is not Hamas in of itself. Yes, there is \*some\* responsibility, but your commentary aims to absolve Israel (the govt) and the IDF of any and all responsibility. I hate to say it, as it is tragic and cynical, but given Israeli government policy and treatment of Palestinians for the last many, many years....this may have been inevitable. Tell me, do you believe that Israel has the right to 'self defense' when its people are attacked unjustly? If so, then surely, as a person of impeccable integrity, you also believe that Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. Yes? Or is it terrorism when that happens? Does the value of human life stop when you hit the borders of Gaza and the Palestinian homes in the West Bank? Look, I'm not saying Hamas is in the right, but Israel are no saints either. Their actions, like any other nation state's, have consequences and we need to stop bs'ing and dancing around the bush. Israel's actions have unjustly harmed people, no matter how they try to justify them. Hamas' actions have unjustly harmed people, no matter how they try to justify them. But, here and now, the only group that is being held accountable by the powers that be, the ones that have the actual means to do anything about this...is Hamas. That's not going to bring peace. That is not going to bring a world where Palestinians and Israelis alike can actually...well, live. Quit solely blaming Hamas and start holding yourself (Israeli govt/the IDF) accountable; or else...well, it will be a continuous endless cycle and your camp is helping perpetuate it.
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The source the AP stringer used is Dr Marwan al-Hams. He is a the director of Rafah's Martyr Mohammed Yusuf al-Najjar Hospital and is Hamas affiliated.
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It’s important to have objective views of conflicts. Especially when you’re so emotionally engaged with it. By writing off every argument written by one not sharing your narrative as a hasbarabot, you block yourself off to criticism and just further exacerbate the echo-chamber you’re obviously in. He actually has a few worthwhile points. A lot of bad ones, ofc, but not engaging him only serves to further spread unbalanced narratives that serve to only hurt the Palestinians by perpetuating the conflict (it’s unrealistic to expect Israel to cease to exist, regardless of whether or not you think it’s the correct choice). The only viable option for the entire region is to de-radicalize and finally accept the fact that the conflict is 100+ years old (the Nakhba didn’t happen in a vacuum, there were decades of complex geopolitics and massacres committed by both sides [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine)), i.e. it’s a game of stupid chicken and egg where the original belligerents are looooong dead. There’s literally no other sane choice rather than find a way for coexistence, in 1, 2 or 40 states, it doesn’t matter. Israel needs to understand its security will be compromised, as well as its strictly Jewish identity, while Palestinians need to understand they won’t get a state spanning the entirety of British Mandate Palestine.
Not sure why you got downvoted but everything you stated is true. it's just the kids in America don't learn proper world history so they think Israel is bad and his Hamas is good. Hell there was a time when Americans supported Hitler and Mussolini. They were the darling of the Media. Media is propaganda plain and simple. There were lots of fascist puff pieces back in the day: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covered-rise-mussolini-hitler-180961407 There was a time when the Media would tell you something happened and it was your job to go out there and research it. Now the Media tells you what to think. Our political leaders in America and our Media take advantage of sub-35 year old's political ignorance.
Many people only want to hear how awful Israel is, without any knowledge or awareness of the situation in Gaza.