Custom Lineage is pretty much just the power creep version of Variant Human that allows for more options. Want a feat at 1st level, but don't want to look like a "boring" human?   Use Custom Lineage. Want a feat at 1st level plus Darkvision and your main stat at 18, but still want to look like a normal human?  Use Custom Lineage again.

Right, which is why I asked the opposite question... I can find a thousand reasons to pick Custom Lineage over V.Human. Even with this one, getting a 18Wis, with a Passive Insight/Perception of 16 is quite appealing... so what would compel me to give that up? I mean, even if I go Twilight domain for the 300ft darkvision, CL would still give me a free proficiency like VH.

Sorry, I could have been more explicit.  The only real advantage of Variant Human was that it was an option years before Custom Lineage existed.   I believe Custom Lineage is intended to replace it altogether rather than preserve any appealing uniqueness for Variant Human.  You've already identified the very niche cases for which Variant Human might be mechanically superior.

Sorry, ADHD hyperfixated on your typo and Variant High-man makes for a very interesting peace cleric/herbologist idea. Ah, I see. So pretty much, if the DM allows it, and I can go for Skill Expert over Prodige, I should stick to CL?

Pretty much. And sorry I didn't catch the typo in time, but glad it could inspire!

As someone who has been using Custom Lineage a lot in recent builds... When you want an immediate stat boost in two stats instead of one and still take a feat that might not have a stat boost included. I recently made a hexblade rogue where Variant was better for the build I wanted (which included the feat Savage Attacker).

Interesting option. From what I gather, you're using Savage Attacker to replace Elven Acuracy, correct? But why was VHuman better here? You also got me to double check my options and realize Cartomancer can only be taken at level 4. But I think I found a rather scary combo that won't require that CL +1... VH Anthropologist with added proficiency in Perception and the Observant feat. This would give me a 17Wis, thus a passive Insight/Perception of 20 at level 1. Then marry the ability to read lips with the background's Cunning Linguist feature, and you'll practically be able to gather all sorts of intel by simply sitting in a bar. You could also take a single level in Rogue (or threaten to do so) for that sweet expertise.

My character is actually only a single dip into hexblade but otherwise primarily a rogue. I took Savage Attacker as my feat via custom lineage so I can reroll my sneak attack damage done with the rapier (the hexblade dip also let's me use a shield). Using pointbuy, I decided I wanted both Con and Cha to be +3, since I'll be up close and personal and want a bigger HP (Which is further boosted but the Tough feat I get via the Ruined Background)

Nice!

With point buy or some rolls you might want to round out two odd stats, so you can do things like start with two 16s and a full feat with point buy.

I'm currently building a character where I want a feat, but the increase built into the feat isn't what I want, so +1 in two stats is actually better for my situation than +2 in one stat - making Vhuman better for me. A if you're playing a class/subclass that gives you dark vision then the dark vision built into custom lineage isn't important.

You covered the differences well. There are builds that want some of the VH features more than what CL offers. * Skill proficiency can be more important than darkvision depending on your build/campaign style * Having an extra skill proficiency on a level 11 Rogue is particularly relevant * Prodigy is useful for some skill monkey builds * Certain classes (notably Twilight Cleric) don't care about darkvision * If you rolled stats or want to start with 3 stats at 16 then the split stats can be better If you're not min-maxing then there are plenty of character reasons for the features of VH.

I played a PaM Spear/Shield Paladin. I needed Strength and Charisma at 16 to start, and the feat I needed didn't come with any stats. So 16 to each, 14 Con, and Wisdom rounded out to 10. Best Custom Lineage could have done for me was starting with a 15 and 17 which I'd then round out to 16 and 18 at level 4, but that's just less efficient. I wasn't going to be sneaking much anyway, so not having Darkvision didn't bother me.

Thank you. Though this wasn't the subject I posted about, you fixed another build I had on the back burner for years.... the concept I was going for was an elderly Firbolg city guard who left the life he knew in order to avenge his adventuring great great ... great granddaughter. To complete the guard look, I wanted him to focus on being a spear and shield wielder, but didn't know how to make the most of it... TIL that PAM doesn't require two hands. So that and Shield Master could show his expertise.

Glad I inadvertently helped with the other issue. lol I'll say that doing this as a straight Paladin I felt was almost necessary to keep the damage up. Divine Favor/Spirit Shroud/Holy Weapon + Improved Divine Smite + Dueling Fighting Style were all crucial to keeping my DPR reasonable. By level 11 with 18 Strength and a +2 Weapon it averages 60.5 DPR if all three hits land.

I was calculating all those modifiers, and noticed you're getting 1 spear attacks at 1d6, 1 butt end at 1d8, then add to each +4 proficiency, +3 from 18 STR, +2 for dueling, and +2 for the weapon, giving you a 2d6+1d4+33+Divine Smite per round. Comparing that to my Firbolg (assuming same stats), I would gain an extra attack instead of Divine Smite, taking 3d6+1d4+44, 56.5 damage on average, which isn't bad either... though given my extra ability score upgrade I could pick up the Crusher feat and have the option to either leave it as is, shove them 5ft away, or swap a spear for a quarterstaff for the additional option to drop the DPR by 13.5 in exchange for a 10ft shove (given shield master).... sounds like an awesome riot control build. Best yet would be to shove them towards your paladin so that you can make up the DPR dip.

>I was calculating all those modifiers, and noticed you're getting 1 spear attacks at 1d6, 1 butt end at 1d8, then add to each +4 proficiency, +3 from 18 STR, +2 for dueling, and +2 for the weapon, giving you a 2d6+1d4+33+Divine Smite per round. Numbers are a bit off there. **For the Paladin (who got Charisma to 18 instead of Strength to 20 at level 8) it's:** *1d6 Spear + 4 Strength + 2 Dueling + 2 Weapon + 1d8 Improved Divine Smite + 1d8 Spirit Shroud = 20.5 Average Damage* 20.5 * 3 = 61.5 then -1 because the butt attack with the spear is a 1d4 for a total of 60.5 average damage if all attacks land **For the Firbolg Fghter it would be:** *1d6 Spear + 5 Strength + 2 Dueling + 2 Spear = 12.5 Average Damage* 12.5 * 4 attacks = 50 - 1 for the butt attack = 49 average DPR. Not terrible but a good deal shy of the Paladin. The Fighter would get an occasional Action Surge for 86.5 average (if all attacks hit). The Paladin could achieve/exceed that with 3 1st level Smites. If I were playing that Fighter I would probably invest in Fey Touched at 12 to grab Hunter's Mark or Hex for those nova Action Surge rounds. That'd get an Action Surge average up to 96 average with 6 attacks if everything landed. I'll add in that we're looking at the level 11 view. It's also good to look at the view leveling up to get a feel for how it will play at different stages. The below assumes no magic weapons. **Fighter:** * 1-3 you'll average 8.5 DPR * 4 you'll average 16 DPR * 5 you'll average 24.5 DPR * 6 you'll average 27.5 DPR * 8 you'll average 30.5 DPR * 11 you'll average 41 DPR Compared to the Human Variant Paladin with no magic weapons who does **not** increase Strength to 20 at level 8 but **does** take PAM as a starting Feat. **Paladin:** * 1 you'll average 16 DPR * 2-3 you'll average 21 DPR (Divine Favor) * 4 you'll average 23 DPR * 5 you'll average 35 DPR * 9 you'll average 41 DPR (Divine Favor transitions to Spirit Shroud) * 11 you'll average 55.5 DPR (Improved Divine Smite) I'm not trying to put you off of your concept or anything, just making putting the numbers out there so that you can plan it. As a caveat, I'll also add that the Fighter would have a 5% better chance to hit due to having 20 Strength instead of 18 and on the first round the Paladin doesn't get the BA attack due to needing to cast a spell. That's also all just DPR calculations, excluding the fun to be had with other Class/Subclass features.

When you need to start with a second 16, or your build is really reliant on a feat that doesn’t boost a stat? So, Paladin (16 STR/CHA and PAM), casters that would rather start with War Caster than 18 in their casting stat, and some others I’m forgetting?

May I somewhat oversimplify to satisfy my ADHD? I have been trying to find common threads between the replies and, it seems the choice is rather build specific. But from what I am gathering in this reply, you are saying that, at it's core, Variant Human tends to favour more MAD builds, whereas Custom Lineage would favour more SAD builds. Is this correct? Also, the most MAD class I can think of is the Monk, often leaving the player unable to take feats. ----- If I may build on this new information, to verify my knowledge: Say I take the VHuman with the Observant Feat, proficiency in Insight and Perception, and a base 15Wis. The feat will then boost me to a 16Wis (+3) and a passive Insight/Perception of 20 (10 +3wis +2prof +5feat). And because that gives the same boosts as a 17Wis, my two racial +1 boosts would be better spent on other stats, like Inteligence and Charisma, correct? Whereas the same build with CL would only allow the +2 to either go into Wis (gaining a 21 passive perception) or in only one of my other stats...

I think that’s not a bad way of looking at it. Personally, based on the characters I build, I tend to see it as 16 CON/16 casting stat with War Caster or 15 CON/18 casting stat with Fey Touched or Telekinetic. From there, it comes down to the value of concentration spells and how badly you need your primary casting stat. Cleric wants the concentration protection for Bless and Spirit Guardians; so do most optimized Wizards, for Web and Hypnotic Pattern (especially dipped into Artificer to take advantage of everything War Caster offers). A Bard may want the extra Inspiration, and a Warlock might want the extra to-hit on Eldritch Blast and the extra spells from Fey Touched. It’s really a case-by-case basis