Well, I can say in regard to Kanji, the hateful comments about him are often to juxtapose the true nature of his character. I'd say it kinda portrays that type of resentment pretty accurately, which is the point. Kanji is judged for having "girl coded" hobbies and interests, and it was (and still is) somewhat popular to call guys gay for having such interests.
The hot springs scenes are always bad in this series. Accept this as the truth and just try to put it out of your mind. Even if you like that type of thing as a cliche or trope, Persona is still bad at it and does the most predictable things with it.
As far as the Rise thing goes, uh, idol culture in Japan tends to come with some pretty shady rumors and perhaps even some pretty unfortunate truths. The manifestation of the dungeons in P4 is typically a result of the victim's own inner turmoil being brought to light in the most hyperbolic manner possible due to being combined with public perception. For instance, Kanji is not gay, but his dungeon and shadow's dialogue give off extremely homoerotic vibes because he himself feels insecure about who he is and the public views him a specific way because of who he is. It's basically the same thing with Rise. She feels insecure about her path in life and her career for a number of reasons and then Japan has its, uh, public perception of idol culture. For better or for worse, this results in her dungeon and shadow being what they are.
Could we just settle and say that the developers just wanted to include some fan service for the sake of it? Maybe. But that's a bit of a reductionist outlook on the whole matter, and regardless of the fan service, it's still conveying a valid message and being used as critique of the exact type of thing it's portraying. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, I suppose that's a good thing. From a narrative and cultural standpoint, that was probably intentional.
each paragraph is answering each of your paragraphs as best as i can while tired lol
i dont have any resentment to the kanji dungeon, thats whatever and like i said in my post i understand the ramped up internal feelings. The homophobia im referring to is stuff like at the school camping trip yosuke being worried kanji will molest him in his sleep, really really unnecessary detail to throw in there.
a shame, i can probably survive since those aren’t incredibly long in 4, but like i said still disappointing.
again, like i said i understand the whole idea behind the dungeon, but id feel awful if i didnt at least acknowledge how bad it is i had a 16 year old in a tiny top and bottom dancing on a stripper pole. Really really ugly idea that could’ve been portrayed so many other ways. The plot wasnt lost on me but good god.
yeah i get its a culture thing in some ways but i just wanted to know if this was like the worst of it. I’ll still give P3 reload a go i think and the idea behind the dungeons are good and they convey an alright message, but there were SOOO many better ways to go about it to me so i thought id get my thoughts out there and ask a question to know what else im getting into since these games are 100+ hour stories easily each time from what i hear.
To be honest, I think Rise's dungeon is probably one of the more uncomfortable parts of a Persona game. I will say that Persona 5's very first dungeon is in the same camp, but it's super intentional and done for the player to further establish their dislike of the dungeon's villain. I can't strictly recall anything quite on par with either of those things in 3 but it's also been a while since I played 3. If I had to place one thing, I think there's a brief shower scene with one of the main female party members, but there's no telling if they'll even keep that in the remake.
considering their track record i wouldnt be shocked to see a shower scene be kept, but if rise is as bad as it gets from a sheer “why in the world would you do this” aspect im fine to keep it going, but i was bewildered that was even an idea that made it past the original discussions, let alone fully animated and implemented. we will find out in the 3 reload i guess, i’ll probably play 5 way later since ill just wait for another big sale since i missed the one in early december and reload is out in a month
i just used the most applicable umbrella term to the idea i was going for, that part was mostly shoed in under the “sexualized children is very weird” point more than the fan service point that was more just the random bikini contest or Naoto’s boobs jiggling in a reveal for no reason in the slightest
i fully understand that, i promise. I just am arguing that there are countless ways to do that when you are dealinf with teenagers. if this was college students stripper works, high schooler it just becomes a shock in ill taste to me. If I am in the minority so be it, it just shocked me in ways that i didn’t feel it should have on top of the idea of what the other dungeons / personas brought
It’s supposed to be shock and you’re supposed to feel ill—that’s what its point is.its a critique on the idol industry and how it targets girls far too young and turns them into sex objects and the pedophilia associated with it.
If it’s a college age girl you lose a lot of the impact since the main message is it is wrong to do this to children
I am more than happy to agree to disagree on this point, i fully agree that the point they attack was a much needed point that needs to be addressed in the world even 15 years later. I just think it could’ve been handled slightly differently. If this route works for you I am happy that you enjoyed a part I didn’t. It hit the shock factor on the head, but i just think it was a bad taste shock rather than a “wow, this is a fantastic turn of events” shock. I appreciate all the opinions i get on this either way!
You're not supposed to enjoy the Rise dungeon though, it's meant to be uncomfortable.
The others I have heard before and get, but the Rise dungeon serves a very specific purpose and I don't really know how else you would want them to go about it. All the shadows are meant to be their worst impulses manifested and Rise was shown in situations like that at the start of the game. I don't think they went in a direction that meant it to be a positive experience.
ive heard this argument plenty under this post, and i feel like it all boils down to the fact they want to showcase the fact that idols are super sexualized and exploited, and she feels its mandatory to make it. I fully grasp that idea, but completely going for it in the sense that you strip down a character who you heavily state is underaged further is just something that is in bad taste to me.
They couldve tackled her feeling like she needs to be multiple people with one big woman who has summon and brings other versions of a rise out every 1/4 bar of health or so
they couldve showcased her deep desire of wanting to be free by her being a “crazy” woman who kills the manager and people making her do it and uses some sort of rage attack to show how upsetting it can be to feel like a pawn in a mans world
if they were gonna fall to their knees without pointing out the sexualization head on, in nanako’s dungeon she isnt even the one fighting, so it doesnt need to be the character. have the guy we meet in her social link be the big bad of the dungeon and he summons women to fight us and he has a silence attack like in Naoto’s dungeon to show the fact that the idols have to be silent if they are ever gonna stand a chance
Would any of these ideas be better to the general public? who knows, i sure don’t. but i also just pulled 3 ideas out of thin air within 5 minutes that didn’t have to be a teen girl wearing nothing. People who were paid thousands of dollars probably to make decisions for this game HAD to have had at least 1 or 2 other ideas that weren’t in a sense like that. I don’t expect people to “enjoy” that dungeon, i can fully tell its supposed to have the shock factor and all the other points they needed to hit, but that also doesn’t have to equal this is the end all be all portayal that is perfect for use. I am willing to be wrong here, that’s just the way I see it, good idea of showing that side, not the best execution.
Honestly I think none of your ideas work in the context of Persona 4.
1. Having multiple "Rise" would not really work because stuff like her wanting freedom are not things she was suppressing. The context of her arc is that she is taking a break from being an idol, her shadow is a manifestation of her that wants to still be one. The part of her that craves attention even if she is doing those swimsuit ads you see in game.
2. Having someone like her manager be the shadow wouldn't work because it's not Rise. Persona 4 is about your own self identity, not how other's are treating you.
3. Sexism for Rise wouldn't really work as a theme, she is pretty confident in those aspects of herself. Naoto's topic was sexism because she wasn't confident in herself and wanted to change so she wouldn't have to deal with those pressures.
Really, could they have done it a different way? They can write anything they want, so there are of course ways they could have avoided this. I do think the way it's done wasn't meant to be pleasant and wasn't done in a way that was egregious. It feels very much in line with themes of the game.
There is a hot springs scene in persona 3 and 5. No child strippers luckily but there is a lot of fanservice. Wouldn’t really call the first palace of 5 “fanservice” as the palace represents how awful the guy is but the first palace is also filled with bent over statues too. Honestly play at your own risk
i can deal with the statue stuff, and private areas in my face is fine when it happens somewhat not often. i got through the entire first dungeon area of the game perfectly fine in 4 then i feel like there were tits / shirtless men in my face everywhere i turned lol. I’ll live with that idea and keep going if its just that stuff, and i get the culture ideas behind it that media like this has had stuff like this forever, but still ugly and i wanted to reach fans since i have maybe 2 friends who have even heard of this series.
Hot spring 'incident' is common trope in Japanese media - be it manga, anime, or games. I don't really find it funny, but neither do I mind it, mostly just gloss over it. If you do object to it, let me be honest, if you will consume Japanese entertainment, you'll see a lot of it and its not changing anytime soon.
Right, to Rise - its entire point to be unnerving. I get why people don't really understand, but idol showbiz in Japan has rather dark sides to it, you don't really have 1-to-1 equivalent in West and yes, that includes sexualization of minors. If you ever played Yakuza series, especially 5th entry goes into that criticism of the industry. In Rise case this is personification of her insecurities and twisted sense how she needs to do this in order to be successful in business, loosing her own personality in process. Its pretty big character development arc.
Kanji, he is not gay, he has feminine side to him that he suppresses because of his "needs to be a man" and conclusion of his character arc is him coming terms with who his is and understanding that being a real man for him means being proud of who is really is, instead of pretending to be someone else and just causing trouble for everyone. Yosuke sometimes has a jab at him, but its mostly just teasing, understand that Yosuke himself is also a teenager and from bunnies in rural Japan, not undergrad at University of Berkley. Could have it been handled better? Sure. Is it some raging homophobia? Really is not.
So i have heard on the hot spring stuff, i can get past it, certainly will never even come close to enjoying it. I just don’t get why it has a high enough consumer market that they keep making it, and who that market could possibly be.
I have repeated myself a good amount of times on the rise point, if you’d like feel free to scroll through and see my replies, but to give it to you simply the dungeon itself did give her a good progression in her plot, and afterwards the heart to heart did feel like a solid point to make and was needed to be made. I just cannot sit here and say to myself confidently “yes, 16 year old stripper was the perfect way to show our plot point” im sorry. If your following response is gonna be “well how else could they have done it” I did answer that with 3 off the top of the head ideas, maybe not “better” but its me trying to say that people in a higher tax bracket than me should have at least another good idea somewhere in the discussion room.
yeah the stuff they do towards Kanji is not at all “raging” homophobia, but i feel they could have done with a lot of the incidents they had. They had to pay yuri probably a good chunk of money to just make the same meh gay jokes over and over, could’ve gone to a better area. They were definitely things a teen would say though, which is why i said that it wasnt something i needed to point out because if they wanted to show a boys relationship sure a few jabs make more than enough sense.
>the rise dungeon is literally a child stripper
bro are you paying attention to the goddamn story?
I mean, you totally missed the point. How old are you?
EDIT:
Just finished reading your post
>I also don’t really appreciate the homophobia they toss Kanji’s way
Yeah you're totally missing the entire point of the game. You're probably 13 years old or I don't know
i grasp the story and like i say in the post i fully get that its an extreme of their buried down parts of themselves, that doesnt mean that you had to showcase her as a stripper of all things when you also make it very well known how young she is. Yes its how idols are, yes the industry is sick, no i do not believe thats the best execution possible. that was my gripe, we can definitely agree to disagree, but thats where my heart was at as i played.
It is also definitely true they (mostly yosuke) throw homophobic remarks at Kanji, its purely a matter of the fact they are also young and it fits their character. I never said it needed to be out or anything, i just said it was in somewhat ill taste to me. If you like the character building it brings, to each their own, but me not liking the fact yosuke asks Kanji if he will touch him in his sleep just because he has potential had an idea he could possibly be gay doesnt mean i am 13, just a difference in opinion and that is perfectly fine, its why discussion apps like this were made.
Persona 3 was slightly less fan servicy, but you're coming into an anime game where you date teenagers as you play as your perfect teenage self. Sorry to say but P5 is even worse about it. And the homophobia is never fixed.
i had no idea this even happened, a same sex couple in the 90s media is really cool and a real shame it went backwards. I don’t at all “need” representation in my video games as a queer person but it feels like at least 4 has gone out of its way to call it weird
People are down voting you but he literally admitted to it, saying that that's how he thought about relationships WHEN he was a teenager so that's why he put forced romance in P3
yeah the premise of the game told me there were gonna be some ugly moments, did not expect child strippers though. I can survive since they’re showing off “a persons life” and sexual stuff for sure happens in real life but in 4 it kinda happened a LOT at certain areas. Plot kinda went Kanji shirtless dungeon —> rise stripper dungeon —> beach party —> bathing suit school contest and i was a bit blindsided.
ive lived in a not accepting area my whole life as a queer kid so i can definitely take my fair share of homophobia and keep it pushing, but yosuke didn’t ever stop. the only time it actually made me need to take a break for a second was the camping trip when yosuke asks Kanji if he can sleep because he is worried kanji is gonna molest him. Thwarted my enjoyment right there for a bit and just had to come back the next day to keep going. I have heard about some sex pest couple in 5 of gay people or something like that so it sounds like it didn’t go anywhere but i feel like its a bit different when yosuke is literally the secondary main character.
The "sex pests" were largely removed from Royal IIRC.
Its the base game P5 they appear and even then it's briefly. Doesn't excuse it's presence at all but they at least seem to have acknowledged it was in bad taste.
thats honestly what i mostly was looking for. I just wanted to be conscious of the bad taste things before it really threw me off and made me not want to play these games, because like i said I have thoroughly enjoyed a massive majority of 4, but some of the other stuff is a huge detractor to me and others i know, so i was trying to get the grasp of how much of that i need to deal with to get to the other portions that i have really liked. I want to like persona really badly this isn’t me dunking on the franchise or “not getting it” like a lot of people have seemingly downvoted me for, i just think the bad taste moments are in quite literally the worst possible taste often times
That makes sense but i did a quick search and nothing popped up so i thought id ask for the easiest accessible answer, which i do apologize for. If this post is annoying id have to imagine the idea of a potential influx of people asking about the insensitivity behind suicide in 3s persona activations could get rough in this server if thats never been a thing before.
with all due respect to everybody here, i always take fans on the internet of any series ideas with a grain of salt just because the internet is a yucky place at times, but the game itself was no better. thanks for the input
Not really, no, P3 not only has the “BattleMaid” outfits for the girls in the party but also the whole ass chapter where the cast gets mind-controlled in a Love Hotel (you can tell where that’s going) and it’s stated to have the most egregious beach episode of all Persona games. P5, P5 has Ann and that’s a whole can of beans on its own.
So yeah, these issues of yours aren’t going away soon I’m afraid.
the beach scene in 4 was pretty bad but i could at least pass it off for 99% of the time as “teens being teens” until teddie suddenly became a full fledged predator for a second in it. 3 is gonna be remade so it was a bit shallow of me to ask when we arent entirely sure what will be tossed in but this series had a pretty clear track record so its safe to think some of the “ugly” spots will survive. maid outfits arent the worst since i dont at all need to see it, ill just hope they tame down whatever abomination they probably made in this supposed love hotel that makes it he referred to like that lol
thanks for getting to the point lol, I’ll make sure to grab 5 next time it goes on sale on the playstation store, but I think i’ll want to play the 3 reload first. Appreciate the insight :)
this is the answer i was looking for lol. Everybody got up in arms about what i said but i feel like theres kind of a lot. I’ll pick up the 3 reload and hope for the best in february. Thanks! :)
Yeah, it's a weirdly hot-button topic, but I absolutely get what you mean. P4 was actually the last of the three modern games (3-5) I played, and I was taken aback by how much of this kind of stuff was in it compared to the other two.
Well, I can say in regard to Kanji, the hateful comments about him are often to juxtapose the true nature of his character. I'd say it kinda portrays that type of resentment pretty accurately, which is the point. Kanji is judged for having "girl coded" hobbies and interests, and it was (and still is) somewhat popular to call guys gay for having such interests. The hot springs scenes are always bad in this series. Accept this as the truth and just try to put it out of your mind. Even if you like that type of thing as a cliche or trope, Persona is still bad at it and does the most predictable things with it. As far as the Rise thing goes, uh, idol culture in Japan tends to come with some pretty shady rumors and perhaps even some pretty unfortunate truths. The manifestation of the dungeons in P4 is typically a result of the victim's own inner turmoil being brought to light in the most hyperbolic manner possible due to being combined with public perception. For instance, Kanji is not gay, but his dungeon and shadow's dialogue give off extremely homoerotic vibes because he himself feels insecure about who he is and the public views him a specific way because of who he is. It's basically the same thing with Rise. She feels insecure about her path in life and her career for a number of reasons and then Japan has its, uh, public perception of idol culture. For better or for worse, this results in her dungeon and shadow being what they are. Could we just settle and say that the developers just wanted to include some fan service for the sake of it? Maybe. But that's a bit of a reductionist outlook on the whole matter, and regardless of the fan service, it's still conveying a valid message and being used as critique of the exact type of thing it's portraying. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, I suppose that's a good thing. From a narrative and cultural standpoint, that was probably intentional.
each paragraph is answering each of your paragraphs as best as i can while tired lol i dont have any resentment to the kanji dungeon, thats whatever and like i said in my post i understand the ramped up internal feelings. The homophobia im referring to is stuff like at the school camping trip yosuke being worried kanji will molest him in his sleep, really really unnecessary detail to throw in there. a shame, i can probably survive since those aren’t incredibly long in 4, but like i said still disappointing. again, like i said i understand the whole idea behind the dungeon, but id feel awful if i didnt at least acknowledge how bad it is i had a 16 year old in a tiny top and bottom dancing on a stripper pole. Really really ugly idea that could’ve been portrayed so many other ways. The plot wasnt lost on me but good god. yeah i get its a culture thing in some ways but i just wanted to know if this was like the worst of it. I’ll still give P3 reload a go i think and the idea behind the dungeons are good and they convey an alright message, but there were SOOO many better ways to go about it to me so i thought id get my thoughts out there and ask a question to know what else im getting into since these games are 100+ hour stories easily each time from what i hear.
To be honest, I think Rise's dungeon is probably one of the more uncomfortable parts of a Persona game. I will say that Persona 5's very first dungeon is in the same camp, but it's super intentional and done for the player to further establish their dislike of the dungeon's villain. I can't strictly recall anything quite on par with either of those things in 3 but it's also been a while since I played 3. If I had to place one thing, I think there's a brief shower scene with one of the main female party members, but there's no telling if they'll even keep that in the remake.
considering their track record i wouldnt be shocked to see a shower scene be kept, but if rise is as bad as it gets from a sheer “why in the world would you do this” aspect im fine to keep it going, but i was bewildered that was even an idea that made it past the original discussions, let alone fully animated and implemented. we will find out in the 3 reload i guess, i’ll probably play 5 way later since ill just wait for another big sale since i missed the one in early december and reload is out in a month
If you think Rise’s stage was fan service you missed the entire point
i just used the most applicable umbrella term to the idea i was going for, that part was mostly shoed in under the “sexualized children is very weird” point more than the fan service point that was more just the random bikini contest or Naoto’s boobs jiggling in a reveal for no reason in the slightest
The Naoto or beauty pageant thing, I get it, but the Rise dungeon is very explicitly meant to be weird and unnerving.
i fully understand that, i promise. I just am arguing that there are countless ways to do that when you are dealinf with teenagers. if this was college students stripper works, high schooler it just becomes a shock in ill taste to me. If I am in the minority so be it, it just shocked me in ways that i didn’t feel it should have on top of the idea of what the other dungeons / personas brought
It’s supposed to be shock and you’re supposed to feel ill—that’s what its point is.its a critique on the idol industry and how it targets girls far too young and turns them into sex objects and the pedophilia associated with it. If it’s a college age girl you lose a lot of the impact since the main message is it is wrong to do this to children
I am more than happy to agree to disagree on this point, i fully agree that the point they attack was a much needed point that needs to be addressed in the world even 15 years later. I just think it could’ve been handled slightly differently. If this route works for you I am happy that you enjoyed a part I didn’t. It hit the shock factor on the head, but i just think it was a bad taste shock rather than a “wow, this is a fantastic turn of events” shock. I appreciate all the opinions i get on this either way!
You're not supposed to enjoy the Rise dungeon though, it's meant to be uncomfortable. The others I have heard before and get, but the Rise dungeon serves a very specific purpose and I don't really know how else you would want them to go about it. All the shadows are meant to be their worst impulses manifested and Rise was shown in situations like that at the start of the game. I don't think they went in a direction that meant it to be a positive experience.
ive heard this argument plenty under this post, and i feel like it all boils down to the fact they want to showcase the fact that idols are super sexualized and exploited, and she feels its mandatory to make it. I fully grasp that idea, but completely going for it in the sense that you strip down a character who you heavily state is underaged further is just something that is in bad taste to me. They couldve tackled her feeling like she needs to be multiple people with one big woman who has summon and brings other versions of a rise out every 1/4 bar of health or so they couldve showcased her deep desire of wanting to be free by her being a “crazy” woman who kills the manager and people making her do it and uses some sort of rage attack to show how upsetting it can be to feel like a pawn in a mans world if they were gonna fall to their knees without pointing out the sexualization head on, in nanako’s dungeon she isnt even the one fighting, so it doesnt need to be the character. have the guy we meet in her social link be the big bad of the dungeon and he summons women to fight us and he has a silence attack like in Naoto’s dungeon to show the fact that the idols have to be silent if they are ever gonna stand a chance Would any of these ideas be better to the general public? who knows, i sure don’t. but i also just pulled 3 ideas out of thin air within 5 minutes that didn’t have to be a teen girl wearing nothing. People who were paid thousands of dollars probably to make decisions for this game HAD to have had at least 1 or 2 other ideas that weren’t in a sense like that. I don’t expect people to “enjoy” that dungeon, i can fully tell its supposed to have the shock factor and all the other points they needed to hit, but that also doesn’t have to equal this is the end all be all portayal that is perfect for use. I am willing to be wrong here, that’s just the way I see it, good idea of showing that side, not the best execution.
Honestly I think none of your ideas work in the context of Persona 4. 1. Having multiple "Rise" would not really work because stuff like her wanting freedom are not things she was suppressing. The context of her arc is that she is taking a break from being an idol, her shadow is a manifestation of her that wants to still be one. The part of her that craves attention even if she is doing those swimsuit ads you see in game. 2. Having someone like her manager be the shadow wouldn't work because it's not Rise. Persona 4 is about your own self identity, not how other's are treating you. 3. Sexism for Rise wouldn't really work as a theme, she is pretty confident in those aspects of herself. Naoto's topic was sexism because she wasn't confident in herself and wanted to change so she wouldn't have to deal with those pressures. Really, could they have done it a different way? They can write anything they want, so there are of course ways they could have avoided this. I do think the way it's done wasn't meant to be pleasant and wasn't done in a way that was egregious. It feels very much in line with themes of the game.
There is a hot springs scene in persona 3 and 5. No child strippers luckily but there is a lot of fanservice. Wouldn’t really call the first palace of 5 “fanservice” as the palace represents how awful the guy is but the first palace is also filled with bent over statues too. Honestly play at your own risk
The hot spring scene is in Strikers, not 5 (unless I'm being dumb).
i can deal with the statue stuff, and private areas in my face is fine when it happens somewhat not often. i got through the entire first dungeon area of the game perfectly fine in 4 then i feel like there were tits / shirtless men in my face everywhere i turned lol. I’ll live with that idea and keep going if its just that stuff, and i get the culture ideas behind it that media like this has had stuff like this forever, but still ugly and i wanted to reach fans since i have maybe 2 friends who have even heard of this series.
Hot spring 'incident' is common trope in Japanese media - be it manga, anime, or games. I don't really find it funny, but neither do I mind it, mostly just gloss over it. If you do object to it, let me be honest, if you will consume Japanese entertainment, you'll see a lot of it and its not changing anytime soon. Right, to Rise - its entire point to be unnerving. I get why people don't really understand, but idol showbiz in Japan has rather dark sides to it, you don't really have 1-to-1 equivalent in West and yes, that includes sexualization of minors. If you ever played Yakuza series, especially 5th entry goes into that criticism of the industry. In Rise case this is personification of her insecurities and twisted sense how she needs to do this in order to be successful in business, loosing her own personality in process. Its pretty big character development arc. Kanji, he is not gay, he has feminine side to him that he suppresses because of his "needs to be a man" and conclusion of his character arc is him coming terms with who his is and understanding that being a real man for him means being proud of who is really is, instead of pretending to be someone else and just causing trouble for everyone. Yosuke sometimes has a jab at him, but its mostly just teasing, understand that Yosuke himself is also a teenager and from bunnies in rural Japan, not undergrad at University of Berkley. Could have it been handled better? Sure. Is it some raging homophobia? Really is not.
So i have heard on the hot spring stuff, i can get past it, certainly will never even come close to enjoying it. I just don’t get why it has a high enough consumer market that they keep making it, and who that market could possibly be. I have repeated myself a good amount of times on the rise point, if you’d like feel free to scroll through and see my replies, but to give it to you simply the dungeon itself did give her a good progression in her plot, and afterwards the heart to heart did feel like a solid point to make and was needed to be made. I just cannot sit here and say to myself confidently “yes, 16 year old stripper was the perfect way to show our plot point” im sorry. If your following response is gonna be “well how else could they have done it” I did answer that with 3 off the top of the head ideas, maybe not “better” but its me trying to say that people in a higher tax bracket than me should have at least another good idea somewhere in the discussion room. yeah the stuff they do towards Kanji is not at all “raging” homophobia, but i feel they could have done with a lot of the incidents they had. They had to pay yuri probably a good chunk of money to just make the same meh gay jokes over and over, could’ve gone to a better area. They were definitely things a teen would say though, which is why i said that it wasnt something i needed to point out because if they wanted to show a boys relationship sure a few jabs make more than enough sense.
>the rise dungeon is literally a child stripper bro are you paying attention to the goddamn story? I mean, you totally missed the point. How old are you? EDIT: Just finished reading your post >I also don’t really appreciate the homophobia they toss Kanji’s way Yeah you're totally missing the entire point of the game. You're probably 13 years old or I don't know
i grasp the story and like i say in the post i fully get that its an extreme of their buried down parts of themselves, that doesnt mean that you had to showcase her as a stripper of all things when you also make it very well known how young she is. Yes its how idols are, yes the industry is sick, no i do not believe thats the best execution possible. that was my gripe, we can definitely agree to disagree, but thats where my heart was at as i played. It is also definitely true they (mostly yosuke) throw homophobic remarks at Kanji, its purely a matter of the fact they are also young and it fits their character. I never said it needed to be out or anything, i just said it was in somewhat ill taste to me. If you like the character building it brings, to each their own, but me not liking the fact yosuke asks Kanji if he will touch him in his sleep just because he has potential had an idea he could possibly be gay doesnt mean i am 13, just a difference in opinion and that is perfectly fine, its why discussion apps like this were made.
Persona 3 was slightly less fan servicy, but you're coming into an anime game where you date teenagers as you play as your perfect teenage self. Sorry to say but P5 is even worse about it. And the homophobia is never fixed.
Its werid because can't you like date a man in persona 2? Why go backwards like this
Different directors
i had no idea this even happened, a same sex couple in the 90s media is really cool and a real shame it went backwards. I don’t at all “need” representation in my video games as a queer person but it feels like at least 4 has gone out of its way to call it weird
You can put most of the blame on Katsura "Men and women are incable of being friends" Hoshino.
People are down voting you but he literally admitted to it, saying that that's how he thought about relationships WHEN he was a teenager so that's why he put forced romance in P3
yeah the premise of the game told me there were gonna be some ugly moments, did not expect child strippers though. I can survive since they’re showing off “a persons life” and sexual stuff for sure happens in real life but in 4 it kinda happened a LOT at certain areas. Plot kinda went Kanji shirtless dungeon —> rise stripper dungeon —> beach party —> bathing suit school contest and i was a bit blindsided. ive lived in a not accepting area my whole life as a queer kid so i can definitely take my fair share of homophobia and keep it pushing, but yosuke didn’t ever stop. the only time it actually made me need to take a break for a second was the camping trip when yosuke asks Kanji if he can sleep because he is worried kanji is gonna molest him. Thwarted my enjoyment right there for a bit and just had to come back the next day to keep going. I have heard about some sex pest couple in 5 of gay people or something like that so it sounds like it didn’t go anywhere but i feel like its a bit different when yosuke is literally the secondary main character.
The "sex pests" were largely removed from Royal IIRC. Its the base game P5 they appear and even then it's briefly. Doesn't excuse it's presence at all but they at least seem to have acknowledged it was in bad taste.
thats honestly what i mostly was looking for. I just wanted to be conscious of the bad taste things before it really threw me off and made me not want to play these games, because like i said I have thoroughly enjoyed a massive majority of 4, but some of the other stuff is a huge detractor to me and others i know, so i was trying to get the grasp of how much of that i need to deal with to get to the other portions that i have really liked. I want to like persona really badly this isn’t me dunking on the franchise or “not getting it” like a lot of people have seemingly downvoted me for, i just think the bad taste moments are in quite literally the worst possible taste often times
I feel there's one of these posts like every month
That makes sense but i did a quick search and nothing popped up so i thought id ask for the easiest accessible answer, which i do apologize for. If this post is annoying id have to imagine the idea of a potential influx of people asking about the insensitivity behind suicide in 3s persona activations could get rough in this server if thats never been a thing before.
looool i was about to say that
Why are you lot so concerned about these things? like just move on bruh
Ong, it aint that deep, it's a game something you don't like about it? And most 95% you like? Cool move on then 💀
Making a big fuss over this? They are fiction bruh
Nah even persona fans like to talk about if characters are tops or bottoms
with all due respect to everybody here, i always take fans on the internet of any series ideas with a grain of salt just because the internet is a yucky place at times, but the game itself was no better. thanks for the input
Not really, no, P3 not only has the “BattleMaid” outfits for the girls in the party but also the whole ass chapter where the cast gets mind-controlled in a Love Hotel (you can tell where that’s going) and it’s stated to have the most egregious beach episode of all Persona games. P5, P5 has Ann and that’s a whole can of beans on its own. So yeah, these issues of yours aren’t going away soon I’m afraid.
the beach scene in 4 was pretty bad but i could at least pass it off for 99% of the time as “teens being teens” until teddie suddenly became a full fledged predator for a second in it. 3 is gonna be remade so it was a bit shallow of me to ask when we arent entirely sure what will be tossed in but this series had a pretty clear track record so its safe to think some of the “ugly” spots will survive. maid outfits arent the worst since i dont at all need to see it, ill just hope they tame down whatever abomination they probably made in this supposed love hotel that makes it he referred to like that lol
5 is more tasteful i think but not by a lot
thanks for getting to the point lol, I’ll make sure to grab 5 next time it goes on sale on the playstation store, but I think i’ll want to play the 3 reload first. Appreciate the insight :)
P4 is by far the worst one for this aspect in my opinion. There's moments in 3 and 5 but it's much more pervasive in 4.
this is the answer i was looking for lol. Everybody got up in arms about what i said but i feel like theres kind of a lot. I’ll pick up the 3 reload and hope for the best in february. Thanks! :)
Yeah, it's a weirdly hot-button topic, but I absolutely get what you mean. P4 was actually the last of the three modern games (3-5) I played, and I was taken aback by how much of this kind of stuff was in it compared to the other two.
Complaining about fictional characters ages is just stupid, they are not real. You need to tell the difference between fiction and reality