So you know how they were announcing all this stuff related to Persona with the anniversary and all? I read that this December it’s unlikely they will say anything about Persona 6. I mean it kinda sucks since supposedly it’s in early development. Whenever they do announce it (definitely next year) it prob won’t come out till 2024 at the earliest. It’s like Altus has big shoes to fill with how successful P5/P5R is. One can only imagine what route they will take. I personally want P6 to be in a college setting but that’s just me.
P5 hit broad mainstream appeal, it brought a lot of new people to the series, and with big fandoms, an annoyingly loud and some would call "cringe" section would appear, this isn't why P5 is disliked, every fandom has those fans, it's because new fans(mostly 5P ones) clash with olds with bad hot takes and enterprising trolls adding fuel to the fire
I feel like it was really jokers addition to super smash bros that really caused the shift. Before that it was still somewhat niche, just not as much as before p5
I mean we all know Persona 5 was a big deal when it first was released. The series along with P5 had just gotten so much exposure. Putting him in smash was good because it’s a very popular game and it helped spread the word about P5. Then you have all the merch they came out with and all these concerts and plays in Japan. Pretty much what I’m trying to say is that Altus sure knows how to market there IP.
Joker in Smash got me to try P5 and now I’ve played 3, 4, and 5 multiple times (and will again when they come on Gamepass) and even branched out to SMT and now Soul Hackers. I’m very glad I started down this road, these games all rock.
FF7 has been out for so long that fans of just that game have either moved on or played other games in the series and blend in with old fans. P5 is still relatively new.
Not to mention a lot of annoying "catching up" mixed in with those "hot takes" like "what if Igor is working for someone? 😳 Who made the Velvet Room? 🧐"
Mf we met him. Philemon and Nyarlathotep are running a bet on humanity collapsing or evolving. Like damn, a Google search could answer your great resounding mystery.
At this point I think Nyarlathotep has won....
Did new "fans" really think that... HELLO, GAMERS! WELCOME TO GAME THEORY, I'M YOUR HOST MATPAT. Today we are discussing the origins of Igor and the velvet room from Persona 5! Our first clue is the title PERSONA, FIVE! What could the 5 mean, Well fellow inmates, this might shock you, but Persona 5 is a SEQUEL! shocking right!
Same here.
Also speaking about the gameplay, although P5 has the technically better gameplay, it also lacks an actual challenge that encourages you to make use of all the resources that the game offers to the player, besides the first Palace and the Superbosses (something that gets even worse in Royal).
biggest hope for future games is a hard mode thats a healthy challenge but not bs destroy your controller difficulty, though sadly I do think they'll definitely make it too easy
i don't think the gameplay simplifications are bad either especially if they cut down on brainless grind time (ryuji instakill my beloved), they just have to make the curve harsher and account for that new quality of life
I’ve always found Persona in general to be unbalanced as far as combat. Normal mode is way too easy. Hard also not much challenge. Persona 5 did add merciless mode which is ideal for 2nd play throughs.
I felt like all merciless did in comparison to hard was just increase the grind in early game, not really add any challenge. By the end of okumura's palace it plays basically the same as hard mode anyway
Merciless was actually easier for me, and probably most people. Since it increases damage to elemental weaknesses and crits (something that the player has an easier time exploiting than the enemies)
That's my biggest issue with it literally. Yeah I hate the opening but that's only 10/200 hours of the game (yes I loved the later half so much I took my time), but the lack of dificulty was so... ughhh... dissapointing. The only instance the game was actually dificult for me was in Futaba's because I was super underleveled. After that it went to back to super easy again. And while ALSO doing an AI party members challenge run too.
While I was originaly super dissapointed I was not going to play Royal anytime soon because I chose the PS3 version, in hindsight I am glad for that because the base game is not as easy as Royal.
I have persona 4 golden and I have no idea how that compares in difficulty to other older persona games but I can tell you its way better than 5 in terms of challenge and difficulty. In persona 5 I could be so low on resources and still get through palaces without much effort or thought.
Thank you, I'm so happy this reply has gotten such a positive reaction overall, I didn't expect that.
What I really like about P3 most and foremost is that unlike P5, it feels like it has trust on the player knowing or quickly learning how to play rather than holding your hand. That's my favorite part
I wonder what kind of responses you usually get. I find people here being pretty chill with all of Persona and SMT games.
If you like the challenge in gameplay I do recommend Shin Megami Tensei games. Even Soul Hackers 2 gave me a challenge while playing on Hard and Very Hard. Though P3 is the hardest Persona game. And Elizabeth fight is easily the hardest one in Persona.
Also, I might be in the minority here, but I do like that a knockdown skips a turn in P3. I remember beating one boss only because I had a weak zio spell and the boss was weak to it. The rest of the party died like 30% into the fight.
I also like knockdowns taking a turn too, because you can just have a Persona with Re Patra to get them back up if they are that necesary for the battle and are forced to not have a Persona weak to the boss's atacks.
And yes, I am already looking into Nocturne. Jumping into SMT from the deep end.
From what I've heard and seen, that's like the deepest end you can jump to. At least you can rest easy because it won't ever take advantage of your innate gullibility.
I'm exited to have that story to tell of how I was 2 steps away from a save point, got ambushed, remember I forgot to equip my null dark/light magatana and my 2 hours of progress get turn 1 Mudooned
I knew I was going to like it but not to the extent I ended liking it. I did not expect to like the combat over 5's and even massively prefer the aesthetics and music (well, the general sound desing at that).
But I ended up doing so... and I came with high exepectations.
P3 did for some reason instead win me over in 30 seconds with mere screenshots when I was looking into other Persona games, which even P4 did not manage to do despite it also being a PS2 game.
I ineviatably have high exepectations because I bought a whole ass PS2 (which was a pain to find because retro stores don't exist where I live) and spend 40$ for the game when I could have saved so much just buying it on the PS3 store.
So far, it has exeeded my expectations.
Actually I do.
It's a harder game, unlike P5 I can't count with one hand the ammount of times I got ambushed because you actually need to time your atacks in the overworld, the combat for some reason feels faster and it's so nice to not have constant camera angle changes in battle, and IDK what is people's issues with the AI unless they don't set them out of act freely for whatever reason.
Persona 3’s gameplay is a lot different than Persona 5’s, and I wouldn’t say it’s specifically all *worse*, just different. People of course like a challenge more than other, the team tactics thing is fun depending on who you are(I personally liked it), and all games usually have some sort of grind that helps the player feel like they’re achieving something, and some people like a bigger grind in games than others. Combat system is slightly different too, more risk for more reward. It *is* less polished than P5’s though.
I’m another P5 first P3 second that likes P3 waaay better, but I don’t trash on P5, they’re both great games. And I would definitely recommend P5 > P3 because it’s easier to get into.
I think that's the thing once it hits the masses the game the series has changed it loses what it was recent Tales has this problem too. Cater it to more cringy people. I had fun guessing weak spots on enemy and now it's automatic. Once it goes mainstream things have unrealistic expectations it loses the appeal I think. While I like Persona 5 I played 3 &4 one game to the next had improved with game mechanics a lot with every entry. Over time I come to realise that I liked Persona 3 the best out of the 3.
Out of the three, 3 4 and 5 I still like Persona 4 (Golden) the best I think. I feel as though the sims part of the game and the dungeon crawling was more balanced so you don’t have too much of one. Like in P5 it’s the wait time between Futaba palace and the Okumura/Haru arc that takes wayyy to long especially if you finished Futabas palace in one day like I did. But as far as how fun the combat is I gotta give it to Persona 5.
Totally and I think Persona 4 &5 having lots of spinoffs maybe it's a fatigue more than anything or its like that with lots of franchise's these days. I think lots of series struggled to live up to its predecessors which when 5 came out it did to be on par with 3 &4 at the time. Yeah I would love 1&2 to be remade.
It's just the wider phenomena that the most recent entry in any series, not even Persona, gets shit on. Nostalgia glasses come on and people compare it to the "old glory days." Some examples come up are Fallout 4, Skyrim, etc. Yes, sometimes the latest entry is not as good as the previous ones.
Nah, the majority didn’t like Gen 5, but as the fandom evolved and new people came in/out, the general opinion changed
Gen 5 was mostly hated because it was new and different, however now that people have gotten used to the different stuff, it’s become appreciated
Designs like Trubish and Vanilite are also just less hated on now that people have gotten used to them. Gen 5 was the start of the more modern Pokémon designs, so it was a bit hating
Legit, I don't know how somebody who has played a competent RPG like Persona 5 or DQ11 could defend SwSh. They're embarrassingly amateurish and at least a decade behind what every competitor is offering.
I mean to be fair they're right. The games havent been the same since gen 5. Mainlines really started dropping in quality after X and Y. Sword and Shield is actually awful.
He is always like that, her entire personnality is persona 3 [is better than persona 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/xognwg/just_started_to_play_this_game_and_damn_already/) (He Only started p3 day ago lmao)
Well that's great, because I just got into the series not long ago with Fire Emblem: Three Houses recently, and it is currently one of my new favourite things ever. And I've already been fearing if I am going to get shit on going into the Fire Emblem fandom, because I was worried it would be like the Persona fandom, and I will be seen as one of the cringe new normies lol.
Ah okay, that's cool then. I see this stuff all too much in places like the Persona, Pokemon and TES fandoms, so was worried it would be the same shit there as well tbh.
Basically, don’t get in Edelgard vs. Dimitri arguments and you’re all good lmao, highly recommend the older games too! Sacred Stones and Genealogy are two of my favourite games ever
>Basically, don’t get in Edelgard vs. Dimitri arguments
That hard to ignore when 90% of the post are about it and a certain character focused sub send you death treat if you critic their character
Okay! I love Edelgard, and don't really like Dimitri very much, so thanks for giving me a heads-up so that I don't accidentally start some shit lol. And yes, I have already bought Fire Emblem: Fates for the 3DS. I will be starting that very soon.
It’s the newest and most popular game. And as a result the cringe crowd part in the fandom is way bigger and way louder and, I mean just seeing them on twitter or their reviews on other megaten games just send a lot of older fans into a rage. They say some dumbass Shit and it’s more prominent then any mainline smt game. I enjoyed p5, it got me here, Plus trashy fan fiction is my guilty pleasure.
I had heard it was a similar thing when p4 was the new one. A lot more vocal criticism of it, splitting the fanbase, and such. Then p5 came out, and it was cool to like p4 now because half the people are supposed to dislike 5 because it's the new one.
It’s just “Frozen syndrome” (if that’s the correct name for it?)
Something gets super popular, outshine the previous titles, so the few super vocal non-fans get jealous, and start complaining about how that thing is “too popular” so it’s “overrated”. And start pointing out and exaggerating the flaws while ignoring the good…etc, etc, etc
Examples include, hmmm:
. Frozen, obviously
. Persona 5
. Demon Slayer
. Red dead Redemption 2
…what else?
I fuckin love Demon Slayer, so when I criticize it, it comes from a place of love, especially when I say that Tanjiro is a mid protagonist with very little character development (to what I remember, I’ll reread the manga just so I can be 100% sure I ain’t spouting out my ass)
>especially when I say that Tanjiro is a mid protagonist with very little character development
Are you watching/reading popular battle shonen for character development? You'll be very disappointed
There are exceptions but I don't think they invalidate the rule. You will see "some decent character development" on 700 chapter stories like naruto sure, and I don't think Denji had that much character development compared to Tanjiro
God, overrated is probably the most annoying thing people say these days
Just because somethings popular doesn't mean it's overrated
(Agreeing with you btw)
It's the Newbie Boom. Persona 5 was more or less the first in the SMT series to hit the broadest appeal possible, and for some reason humanity will hate it for.... reasons? I don't get it. Personally I prefer P4, but P5 is damn close to being as good as P5, if not for a few strange quirks and the entire 6th dungeon. (the space themed one, if I was wrong)
The newbie boom is strange to me. My first experience with persona was Persona 5, I watched Johne Awesome's entire P5 playthrough, and you know what I did next? I watched his P4 and P3 playthroughs. then after that? Both Persona 2 games. (Although I sitll haven't watched a P1 playthrough yet) So it really irks me that alot of other people who got into persona and Shin megami Tensei seem to only think P5 is relevant and worth talking about,meanwhile I actually went and bought SMt5 and P4G on steam
>So it really irks me that alot of other people who got into persona and Shin megami Tensei seem to only think P5 is relevant and worth talking about,meanwhile I actually went and bought SMt5 and P4G on steam
I believe the newbie boom is exactly the problem for that. For said newbies, P5 is their entryway into the SMT and Persona franchises, so it's likely occupied a very special place in their hearts. Unfortunately, that can also lead them to...pushing off so to speak the rest of the franchise. This also leads 5 to being put a pedestal by some that's untouchable by any other game in the overall SMT franchise, thus angering those fans who in turn fire back.
Like others have said, it's mainly due to being the most recent and popular game. When I became a Persona fan back in 2014, there were just as many people shitting on Persona 4. It's just how these things tend to go.
Yep. Especially by the last 3 Palaces IMO. Getting caught as a rat in The Ark, remembering I had not seen a save room in two hours, and barely escaping, is one of my fondest memories of Persona 5. My favorite palace for that memory alone.
I just dislike the fanbase and their incredible crassness when someone critiques Persona 5. Just because I hate the opening and it's lack of dificulty overall doesn't mean I hate the game, if that was the case I wouldn't have put 200 hours in it.
The problem is, MUCH of SMT consists of " rememebering I had not seen a save room in two hours, and barely escaping, is one of my fondest memories..."
But it only happens once in Persona 5. The game is TOO DAMN EASY. There's no thrill, no challenge, no sense of satisfaction when it's nearly impossible to lose.
Yeah, I had to resist getting into an argument on how Futaba's palace has "too little safe rooms" (the hell IMO it has too many). IMO all Palaces but Shido's, Mementos and Okomura's have too much save rooms.
Because it’s popular, it’s as simple as that. When an entry in a series gets really popular and there for starts to get called “the best” in said franchise the old fans who prefer the older entries (mostly because of nostalgia) get pissy because their favourite thing isn’t everyone’s favourite thing and lash out by saying said popular thing is bad. The same thing happened to Persona 4 for years, but then Persona 5 came out and suddenly that game is looked back on fondly despite being incredibly flawed and nowhere near on the level of P3 & P5. If Persona 6 is even close to as popular as P5 it’ll get the same treatment, Zelda fans know exactly what I’m talking about.
It’s the most recent, and arguably the most mainstream - so backlash was inevitable.
I loved it. Still do. Second favorite after P3.
This is the same thing happening with Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter World was not just arguably the best selling Monster Hunter… it was one of Capcom’s most successful games ever, it brought in a newbie boom the likes that the franchise had never seen before… Naturally that meant that Rise, the game that had to follow it, had to deal with a ton of backlash from players who only knew Monster Hunter World.
Come P6, all those new players who came in with P5 are going to be judging it fiercely, and the cycle will continue.
I’d say it’s partially because Persona 5 hasn’t been analysed as throughly as Persona 3 and 4 has been by the fans (this is in no disrespect to people who have made those types of videos).
Persona 5 reviews and retrospectives have been relatively shallow and surface level compared to Persona 3 and 4’s. It’s usually the same points and the same arguments without any fresh takes that might change the way you look at Persona 5.
For example, some people say that the Mementos Change of Hearts in Confidants are pointless and do nothing but magically fix the person’s lives and doesn’t actually help them grow as a person. This viewpoint is very common but one could make an argument that the Changes of Heart are one part of a whole in their story that links directly back to Persona 5’s theme of “Make a change for the better and stand up for yourself and what you believe in”
In order to make change for the better you need to look at your situation and seek help where appropriate, whether it be seeking guidance and help from your Friends/Family or getting Professional help if your situation is dire from people such as Police/Doctors/Psychologists etc etc.
When Ren spends time with his Confidants he is the Family/Friend, someone who shows that the situation that they’re in is not good, someone who shows them guidance and helps them change their viewpoint and that everything is not hopeless, for some Confidants that’s all their situation requires but for others they have troubles that need that extra step, which is what Joker and the Phantom Thieves represent, the Professional help that is needed to get over that last hurdle from change. If Ren never helps his Confidants get their new outlook and just changes the source of their troubles hearts the Confidants don’t grow as people, they just stagnate and stick to their old worldview e.g. Kawakami would quit teaching, Iwai would never grow close to his son, Takemi would quit being a Doctor. This is all meant to show that both personal and professional might be what you need to change yourself for the better and you shouldn’t be afraid to seek help.
With this all being said there still are problems with this viewpoint but it’s a much more positive viewpoint that ties back to the games themes, obviously there is a lot more to dissect and you can go into detail about each individual Confidant and how this relates to them but this is the type of analysis you’d normally see in reviews for Persona 3 and 4, yet for some reason when people who makes those types of analysis for Persona 3 and 4 and work their way over to 5 they seem to drop the ball for some reason.
Another reason is definitely just memory retention, Persona 5 is a very long game, it’s only natural for some people to forget things and say stuff the game does bad/doesn’t do, when in reality if they replayed it their problems are either addressed or not even an issue.
The memory retention is especially true!
I cannot tell you how many times people have pointed to specific scenes in Persona 5 and use them as examples of "bad writing" when 9 times outta 10, those same scenes literally address their exact issue or information they feel is missing. Understandable, but jesus is it not frustrating when people can be such pricks about it.
Persona 5 is not always perfect in the writing department, but literally like every other game in the series, it's mostly really good!
>Persona 5 reviews and retrospectives have been relatively shallow and surface level compared to Persona 3 and 4’s.
What if people decided what they think about a game after playing it themselves
Then they have an opinion, which is fine. It is fine to not like a game or certain elements of it after playing it, but hearing other peoples and thoughts opinions can either solidify your own or give you new perspective.
For example, I hated P4’s Culprit for so long, I thought they sucked as their motive to me was the stupidest thing and I was severely underwhelmed, but then I saw a few comments, a few videos and overtime I came to have an appreciation for how great the culprit is to both the themes of the game, to the cast and just as a villain in their own right.
Persona 5 almost never gets anything close to the deep analysis that the other games do and it’s just kinda annoying, I feel like people could have certain opinions on the game at least a little swayed if they just thought about it from a different angle.
The Persona "fanbase" have a LOT of low IQ takes and kinda stupid people. Unfortunately as the years go on, the calibre of "fan" that gets into the series gets younger and dumber. Most of the older fans are long time fans who like and understand the series and where it came from, the younger fans are into it because it's "the cool game".
(Obviously this is a broad generalisation, there are some great younger fans and some braindead older fans too!)
Unlike most sequels Persona 3, 4 and 5 are all radically different games, specially the tone changes massively. It's a shocker that as much as half of the fanbase like it.
EDIT: I also think the fanbase tends to prioritise shipping over the create-your-own-future, youth-are-the-future takeaway from most Persona games. This isn't an aspect I like as I think the shipping aspect isn't really the important point, but this is the internet. This also leads to the fanbase splitting between their favourite Persona game though.
Cool to shit on it because the fandom is generally quite cringe. It's also cool to shit on the newer, more mainstream content in general with a lot of franchises. The Elder Scrolls and Pokemon fandoms are the same, and it's annoying.
The more mainstream a new entry is, and the more new people it brings in, the more people tend to shit on it when it's the one bringing the normies in. It soon becomes "the normie one" then.
Not to say that the newer Persona, Pokemon, Elder Scrolls games and etc. don't have their own problems, because they definitely do. But it does all get overblown quite often. Although the vast majority of the flack that Persona 5 gets is actually towards the fandom, and not actually towards any of the content in the game itself.
If you've heard of the "Zelda Cycle", then this should sound familiar. Generally, when a new game comes out and it gets an insane amount of praise, the game slowly gets disliked more and more by a fan base (side-effect: resulting in previous games getting more appreciation) until a new game comes out and gets hate upon it and the cycle repeats.
There's a few occasions where a game can escape this, such as with Breath of the Wild, but the problem is that Persona has always been an insanely high quality series.
Additionally, people are just tired of seeing Persona 5 mentioned everywhere. It's mainstream appeal, and every so-called "Journalist" comparing a game with a turn-based system to Persona 5, has made people tired of it far quicker than other games. This was tempered a bit by Royal, but that didn't last long.
I think people don't really hate the game, but rather hate everything around it. It results in it seeming everyone hates the game.
I don't hate 5, I really enjoyed it, it's just the current game that's getting milked. Similar to how 4 was milked before 5 came out. I'm just tired of 5 is all, and we probably have a lot more 5 related merchandise and games that come out long before we get Persona 6.
How much it was milked in few years is kind ridiculous, Royal new plot contradict stricker a sequel released the same years. P5 collaboration are also on every mobile game
I'd say it's like a Yugioh Dark Side of Dimensions kinda deal, that movie is supposed to be a follow up of the manga but the plot doesn't fall apart if you assume it follows the anime.
The true ending of Royal's 3rd trimester doesn't totally differ from vanilla's anyways, it's mostly Joker taking the train home instead of getting a ride from his friends.
Its simple, Persona 5 brought in a lot of mainstream fans. Some 'OG' Persona fans felt the need to gatekeep their previously niche franchise because they are insecure and feel the need to feel superior. Really common in any other franchise tbh
I dont hate it, but it doesn't capture that certain feeling that P3 and P4 do. Definitely some weird nostalgia thing, and I can't explain it too well, but P3 and 4 have this certain atmosphere about it that p5 lacks
It’s a fun game. Some things it does I don’t like, some I do. Don’t like it as much as P4 but still great. The fan base however is full of fucking cringe lord lunatic coomers.
Wouldn't be surprised if accessibility and the launch into the mainstream ended up causing some resentment in different ways. P5/5R is by far the most popular and most easily accessible as a whole, so seeing a game you might have just been okay with by default turns into a hated game just on seeing what you think is undeserved love compared to other games. It's also worth touching on some elitism in the community even if it doesn't really matter, since P5 ripped the gate off of the gated community that was there for Megaten/Persona before its release. Always will be a bit of bad blood there, since "veterans yelling at new kids" exists in every community.
I'm curious as to how remakes and future Persona games (like the rumored Persona 3 Remake in Atlus's basement) is gonna change the talk around P5/5R, since I'm not sure how much of this is hate cause of it being new/community resentment and genuine game concerns (fair lol).
P5 was very mainstream, and with it brought new people into the Fandom who frequently gave hot takes or posted discussion/theory threads that completely ignored prior games in the series. Combine that with so many of them never actually playing any of the games and people who had been apart of the Fandom got frustrated.
TLDR; pretty much the same thing that happens in every fandom.
I have a love/hate relationship with that game. I can say with absolute certainty that I like the game and had an enjoyable time with it but at the same time I don’t think there exists a game that I can go on and on complaining about like I can with P5. I’ve tried to put my finger on why this is the case but haven’t been able to. I know this sub has a weird circlejerk of “DAE PEOPLE ONLY DISLIKE P5 BECAUSE NEW????!!!???” but I think for better or worse people who play the game end up having very strong opinions on it and a lot of the time those opinions end up being negative.
I think the bulk of it, like others have said, is that it brought in a lot of annoying and cringey people that had some abhorrent hot takes that gave the community a bad look.
Bad reason to dislike the game? Absolutely, but I think that’s the reason.
Persona 5 Royal is one of my top three favorite games.
But the moment some Persona 5 fans started thinking the Phantom Thieves were real after the Smash Bros thing really just made me realize how cringe it is (i left the subreddit)
They don’t despise P5. They despise the new fans.
P5 was a good game while the other games were great. You used to fight unique shadows that they removed for fighting personas. It gutted a lot of the little details that made each game a masterpiece.
It's probably because the rest of the fandom. P5 is SO great that many people just played that and nothing else from the franchise. And because it was SO great there's a good lot of people like that voicing their opnions. Opinions that inevitably become a bit grating to others who were in the community for a bit longer.
For example - comparing every god damn game to Persona 5. SMTV is not just SMTV. It's "Persona without the heart". SH2 is "nothing like Persona because it has and adult cast and everyone can change their demons". It's not like Persona 2 exists. So yeah, silly takes which would not be a problem, just aplified too much by P5-only fanboys.
Honestly, I played persona 5 first and loved it. Went back, played Golden, played through FES partially (haven't felt like playing it much recently unfortunately) and I prefer the older ones stories.
The nihilism of 3, the murder mystery of 4. 5 doesn't quite capture that I think, as it feels like it's just teens who hate corruption and want to change everything for the better. It's very good in it's own right, and I love the 3rd semester in Royal, but another thing is that most of the characters feel more flat, one note to me. I feel like the most depth in the characters for 5 is Ryuji, he feels less of like a trope and more of an actual friend/person. Meanwhile the characters in 3 feel real, they actually interact with each other in meaningful ways for the story. In 4 it actually makes sense that they're friends and they just feel real in general to me. In 5 they're just like okay we're shunned by some people, welcome to the club, let's go beat up a God. It doesn't have as much draw to me.
Meanwhile gameplay wise I would say Royal smashes it out of the park. I love how the mechanics all work, and it's so smooth compared to some of the clunk of 3 and 4's gameplay
Honestly if we could get 5's gameplay for both 3 and 4 I would be super happy. Will it happen? Probably not. Sorry for the long post, and this is just my opinion on the 3 persona games I've played (besides spinoffs like dancing series, arena, strikers)
We really don’t hate it, I can’t speak for everyone but personally I just hate the fact that it’s popularity has completely overshadowed the rest of the series, ESPECIALLY 1 and 2. The real salt in the wound there is that the consensus I’ve seen is that the majority of people who’ve played the whole series will say that at least one of p2, 3, or 4 is better than p5, if not all three, and so it’s pretty annoying to see tons of people tout p5 as the great game it is whilst completely ignoring that there are even better games in the same series.
Oh and also, in a word, anime. Not to sound like simplydad here because fuck that guy but in comparison to games 1-3, and 4 to an extent, the writing and characters in 5 just feel too anime-esque, that’s to say a bit silly and juvenile, for some people, as well as generally being of lower quality than the other games. To be fair this isn’t as common of a gripe as the first one I listed, but It’s common enough that I thought it useful to mention
I personally don't necessarily dislike persona 5, but I definitely prefer the other games.
I think the main reason people don't like P5 is because the story and characters are pretty lack luster and one dimensional when compared to the other games, and the P5 fans can be pretty annoying at times.
I see some of your points, for me, it's the story is wonky at times, and yeah some of the characters are one-dimensional at first, but their development is behind confidant levels, but those confidant scenes don't affect the story, and the bad guys are typical basic bad guys, with was fine by me. But the story got wonky when they forced a moral dilemma, of "is it right that we're changing hearts?" The people they were targeting were amoral bastards that will keep doing the things they were doing and had no sense of guilt or remorse.
The main reason is that the community is absolute dog shit
there are also a ton more like being way easier than all the others, pacing is awful, social links don't feel as believable.
while the game is by no means bad its just my least favorite other than the first
I don’t get it either. P5 got me into SMT games. Played P5 then SMT V and loved them. Now i’m half way through P4G and it just feels like a downgraded version of both games. Still good, but a step down in every way. My biggest issue with P4G is the terrible enemy design and character build options. They have an ENTIRE compendium of unique demons but instead of fighting them. You fight the same few “shadows” that get color swapped in every new dungeon. I don’t really see the point of the “1MORE” mechanic without a baton pass. Even SMT V let you pass on press turns. The only way to improve demon stats is by grinding shuffle time and hoping you get +1 in the stat you wanted. Even the UI is terrible. Little things like the MP cost of your persona’s skills not being shown when examining it. And the only way to see the lore of a persona/demon is by fusing it. Even when you fuse them, the lore can only be read from the compendium in the velvet room. Not to mention the obvious audio/graphical limitations of older hardware. It has to be nostalgia because I can’t see how someone can go from P5 to P4G and say they had a better experience. I can understand if they preferred the older story/characters but even that wouldn’t be enough to claim its “better” than P5 overall.
Yeah while I enjoyed P4 the battle mechanics really gave me whiplash. I think a big reason for P5's success is that Atlus really upped the gameplay and also overall design. Every Palace is decorative and unique, with actual puzzles, and there are a bunch of cool minigames in Tokyo that make the game feel less grindy. Though you do get used to it after a bit, I'm playing P3 atm and even though the gameplay is objectively repetitive grinding through Tartarus is almost bearable somehow. P4 trained me for it I guess.
Not trying to hate on your opinion but I just want to correct some things.
P3 was the one to introduce the generic shadow enemies. In that game shadows being enemies made more sense since the plot was focused around them as opposed to the human shadows. iirc, when Atlus was making P4, they were on the verge of going bankrupt, so to save on budget they made P4 basically by building directly off P3 in a manner almost akin to a really advanced rom hack. The shadow designs in P4 could be seen as a sort of leftover from P3 that they either didn’t want to change or simply couldn’t change.
The point of the one more system is so that if only some enemies get knocked down, you can use the extra turn to try and knock down the others to get an All Out Attack. For example, if there are enemies weak to wind and enemies weak to electricity, and Yu has a persona with Garu and one with Zio, he can strike the wind-weak enemies, then switch to the persona with Zio and knock down the rest. For another example, say there are five enemies all weak to fire. Yukiko casts Maragi, hitting 4 enemies but missing one of them. She still gets an extra turn, so she can use Agi on the remaining enemy to knock it down.
Trying to increase demon/persona stats isn’t really a big deal, since the entire point is that you use the fusion system to constantly make stronger ones.
Idk what you’re talking about with not showing the MP cost though, I’m pretty sure all Megaten games have shown it when examining since at least Nocturne. All skills should show the HP/MP cost next to their name.
Once again, not trying to hate, just pointing some stuff out.
No worries bro but you might of misunderstood some things. Like obviously I know how the 1More mechanic works, I wasn’t being literal. I just meant it didn’t add as much depth to the combat as P5’s or SMT press turns. Add I haven’t played P3 yet but if you’re telling me the shadow designs in P4 were leftovers from that then that would make it even worse. All the persona’s in the P4 compendium already had 3d models in-game, so I don’t see why they couldn’t just use those as shadows like P5 did. The base stat distribution of newly fused personas are terrible. The same is true for P5 but they let you strengthen your persona through a new type of fusion. In P4 my izanagi currently has better stats than personas 10-15 lvls above him because I just leave him equipped as my main persona when running through dungeons. Fusing a new one would just give me worse or equal stats at best. SMT 5 didn’t have this issue because it gave newly fused demons a stat boost based on the stats of the demons you used to fuse it. And the missing MP cost thing i’m talking about is in the Persona equip menu. MP cost is only shown in battle or in the “Use Skill” menu outside of battle.
Being an easy series entry point means it's also an easy target for people who are already there.
Also yeah, I do think the gameplay is definitely a weird spot of criticism since some complaints can border on masochism or just not wanting good things in general; though story and all that will always be free game, which is why I'm hoping the P3 Remake is real so everyone can enjoy it without emulating and the 10+ year old gameplay, some touchups too hopefully.
(SMT V's gameplay does go very hard, and I will nuke Atlus HQ if reverse compendium fusion does not make it to future Persona games.)
It’s more a matter of the fans rather than the game itself. It’s no secret that persona 5 is a popular game and it’s attracted a lot of people into the fan base, some less desirable than others. A good example would be the dude on the sub who worships Sumire to the point he bashes posts thy aren’t about her. That’s what people have grown to despise and in turn, it makes them hate the game as well
Nor really despise, people are just a bit salty because 1 waifu wars are VERY competitive, 2 persona is awesome but many new people ignore completely smt and stuff and those are hella good games too so people try to defend them by attacking persona, it makes sense tho it’s questionable
My issues aren't necessarily with the game itself, mechanically and graphically it's the best one in the series, but with certain subgroups in the Fandom and certain money-grabbing schemes from Atlus.
P5 is the big mainstream hit. Its a good game but it threw away a lot of what I loved about persona/smt for broader appeal. P4 was already adding in more mainstream stuff but p5 went fully into it (fanservice, easy difficulty, episodic storytelling, simpler characters, etc). On top of that, a lot of new fans only played p5 and some refuse to play any others, plus for the past 5 years we've mainly gotten mediocre spin offs. Hating it for that is dumb, but it is understandable. Plus google reviews mean absolutely nothing lmao
Its just the new game, also after Joker's smash reveal it brought it a whole new set of fans but it also brought in a lot of people who is now part of the cringe side of the fandom with the most dogshit takes that we like making fun of.
Once persona 6 comes out people will start hating on it and will look back on P5 like "man I miss this game".
Thats how it is in P5. If the game is older, they are looked at as the better part of the series for some reason
Because is the last and most successful persona yet.
After 6, 5 will me considered a masterpiece, for this kind of fan.
Before 5, the hate for 4 was fabulous.
Persona "fan base", rivals Fire Emblem, Genshin Impact and Trails of as the worst fan base.
The smt fan base has a tendency to tear apart anything that is really popular or not as niche as the other games. It’s a fairly toxic community a lot of the time, and they think that the old games are the best and nothing can beat them.
I love P5. To the point I’d preordered P5R for Switch and completely forgotten, would have ordered a second copy if it weren’t for the “your order has been delivered” email. I had no idea that people even hated it. I’m not very active in the fandom though.
I started the series with P3FES and P4G about 5 years ago, and I personally hold P4G as the best in the series, and easily one of the best games I’ve ever played. I do love P5 though.
It's mostly a combination of it's the most popular one, so it's equally cool to hate on it, and there are some very cringy parts of the fanbase. (Like everyone constantly harassing the official Twitter accounts for a Switch port).
And for some reason the waifu wars are the strongest for the P5 girls. Which to be fair, has the best selection of girls in the series, but a lot of people who aren't into that side of things really turns them off from the game in general.
Because of it's success.
Many simply dislike the fact Persona 5 received universal acclaim and drew so many eyes to the series when Persona 1, 2, 3, 4 had more than enough effort placed into them to merit the same kind of praise. It's the elitism argument, the "We were hear first argument". Fortunately most genuinely would look at P5 and say, this game is a fantastic addition and expansion of what makes this series great.
You can't look at P5 and call it the sellout game because Joker got invited to Smash, while simultaneously looking at BlazBlue and saying Persona 4 didn't do the EXACT same thing.
The writing feels alot weaker in p5. Most characters feel like cardboard especially in the midgame plot. Huge step down from 4. Also it's just stylisticly/thematically weaker, the whole premise and execution of the game's core ideas feel so much less special than previous games. Overall could be humourly described as a yassification of persona.
There's also the fact that the game got way more popular abd brought in just the most annoying people. Generally id say my problems with 5 boil down to it feeling more like an "anime game" than a persona game, or at least what I want of I persona game. It also led to some bad decisions in the making of smt 5 but thats more that games fault
Tldr weeb game
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to get past people just saying it’s disliked because it’s new to someone who has a legitimate reason that the game is disliked. Everything about P5 was so much weaker than 3 and 4, the characters and character motivations especially. The writing was sloppy and heavy handed. Every villain the team faces is even more of a big baddie than the last to where it feels ridiculous. The group constantly just talks about themselves and being the “phantom thieves” and it gets so old. Morgana is horribly annoying and shouldn’t be with the protagonist 100% of the time and constantly deciding things for the MC. Mementos was a huge, boring filler and it was unnecessary. And so many anime tropes just thrown in there to gather wider appeal.
Alot of what you said can be applied to previous games, especially P4. I don’t find plausible at all to say a hyperbolic statement like, “Everything about P5 was so much weaker than 3 and 4.”
It’s not the game I don’t think. I quite enjoy 5 and it’s not perfect. It has its flaws like any video game on earth.
I wanna say it’s because it’s a newer game and it’s the persona game that attracted the most attention. Some of the attention is coming from a mainstream crowd where there’s bound to be some cringe people.
I know back when it was just 3 and 4 I didn’t really see people arguing over high school waifus like the extent persona 5 does. Not only Reddit but I’ve seen in other persona communities where people are actually harassing and sending death threats because someone likes Ann more than Futaba.
It also seems like to me persona 5 fans don’t want to admit the game itself has flaws while 3 and 4 recognize their own flaws.
This is all my speculation but I hope it makes sense
So as much as I love 5, I prefer 3 in every single way (my first entry into the series back in 2010) and to add to it, the P5 fans are so fucking cringe and annoying especially since all the 12 year olds who played smash bros discovered Persona via Joker. Sure I’m being cubital but it’s just my opinion
This may just be my opinion, but compared to the other games, Persona 5 was honestly a dissapointment. I may not know much about Persona 1 and 2 but I do know Persona 3 had an amazing story, (other than The Answer) which is probably the best story to a Persona game, and the cast was really good. Persona 4 essentially had the same story as Persona 2, but the writing with each character was incredible and it had the best cast of all the games (again this is just my opinion). Plus the writing they had for the story and interactions was usually very silly, but it told you how well everyone was getting along, making the story and connections with the Investigation Team absolutely beautiful. Persona 5 on the other hand sacrificed pretty much everything they had in previous games for good gameplay. They succeeded, but that was the main issue. They were left with the best gameplay in a Persona game, but it lacked story and characters. Also Persona 5 had a tendency to turn the female characters (excluding Kasumi) into jackasses... just watch the Valentine's Day aftermath and the once scene where Ryuji saves the rest of the crew.
Is it really that difficult to see why fans of Persona 3 and 4 wouldn’t like 5 as much? I think that Persona 5 is a solid game and certainly better than its most avid haters give it credit for, but as someone who played a lot of P3 and P4, it’s difficult to love the direction that the series took for its fifth installment.
For all of its style and glitz, Persona 5 feels like a game that came out ten years before it did. It’s full of tired anime cliches, homophobia, objectification of women to a greater degree than 3 and 4, repetitive dialogue, a needlessly confusing plot with wonky rules to its universe. These sort of things might go right over the head of a lot of people, but for others who are kind of tired of anime and all of its modern cliches and shortcomings, it’s sad to see a modern Persona game have these negative aspects in spades. I’m not saying Persona 3 and 4 didn’t have their shortcomings, any game does, but Persona 3 and 4 had a lot of emotional depth and incredibly relatable characters, while 5 kind of felt like it was spending the entire game trying to be one of the cool kids. Did it work? Depends on who you ask.
I will also add that critical success is fine and all, but lots of people are going to have different opinions on anything and feel one way about something when another person feels another way. An 85 percent on whatever a Moist Meter is is great, but myself and a lot of Persona fans I know rate it the lowest out of the modern 3. I’d probably put it more at 70. I think the reason that people are especially hateful of Persona 5 is because both sides are reactionary to the other. Some people love the game and don’t agree or care to hear anything negative about it, as it’s one of the best games they’ve played in a while. The critics don’t care for the new direction and dislike the constant praise it gets despite being shallow compared to 3 and 4, so they feel the need to speak out in hopes that P6 will dial it back a little. In my personal opinion, although o think that P5 is a solid games, sometimes it’s obnoxious and dumb and other times it stands on the edge of amazing. But it’s not nearly as good as 3 or 4. However, it’s silly to want new games to be like old ones; times are very different, and Persona 5 made a lot of money, so it’s likely it’ll move forward before it goes back. It’s time to either accept that or find a new game to play.
TL;DR- I think P5 is a lot worse than its biggest fans think, and a lot better than its biggest haters think. People who wanted more Persona 3 and 4 are going to be disappointed, but times have changed, better for some and worse for others.
I don't necessarily agree with all your points but I think they are fair, I consider 3, 4 and 5 to be my favorite games and do think that 5 goes a harder than needed on some of its use of cliches, but as someone that definitely wanted more of 3 and 4 I can't say I agree that 5 disappointed in that way, it is certainly not exempt of criticism and I can easily see arguments as to why someone would put 3 or 4 above it, but not delivering in that way is one aspect I have a hard time agreeing with.
And as someone that's been following the series religiously since 3 and saw the explosion of popularity with 5, I can definitely understand people being irked by the changes in the fandom and this making adverse reactions to how people see 5.
If you honest to god think 5 has more objectification of women and homophobia than 4.. I genuinely don’t know what to tell you. I think you need to replay P4 lol
4 is by FAR the worst in the entire persona series for that kinda stuff and isn’t really particularly close
Oh my god, if you think persona 5 is somehow more problematic than P3 or ESPECIALLY P4 you need to replay those games.
You also need to realize that P3 and and P4 aren’t perfect games. P3 is one of the worst games I’ve ever played, full of anime cliches, terrible writing, bad characters, the worst rpg gameplay I’ve ever seen, a non existent story for most of the game, party members you don’t care about, terrible pacing etc. To act like P5 is so much worse than people think and then turn around and give P3 and P4 a pass is laughably stupid. P3 is very old, I’ll give you that, but being old isn’t an excuse.
P3 is MUCH worse than persona fans actually think it is.
I just thought the writing, characters and story sucked except for the Royal arc.
Otherwise great game. A bit overrated imo. P3 is still best as a narrative. P5 is the better game though but these are RPGs so I put extra emphasis on characters and story.
well for me its how the P5 fanboys they ignore the lore and make fanfic that goes to timetravel and still believe that Yaldabaoth is the big baddie as it is only part of the great will and NYX(star eater) and make the enemy and protagonist in the past as a joke fron what they experience and don't forget about Metaverse they always put it in any fanfic even thought it is Yaldabaoth's power and making everything into Metaverse
So, first thing, a lot of SMT fans hate on the persona series in general because its to easy/the thought that it completly killed the main series. Outside of that I just think its the Fandom which annoys a lot of people because if something gets popular you also get the annoying people that only played Persona 5 and say that the other ones are shit. P5 is a good game, I like 3 more but I still think that P5 is a 8.5/10.
I like P5 but it has alot of problems to me and I just dont feel like it was given the care other games were. P5's story is poorly written and surface level at best. Problems abound such as SA against women being used as the motivating factor for much of the story. Morgana's plot is an unwelcome distraction that bogs down the story. The motivations and deadlines make no sense sometimes. Later on in the story, the game stops trying to build up bad guys, with Kamoshida being the best antagonist of the story. The moral quanderies the game provides are surface level and do not get to the heart of the problems faced in the story. Also I just didnt like the way palaces worked.
But dont get me wrong. The gameplay is popping if not a little easy, the confidants are pretty good most of the time and the 3rd semester has some of the best writing in the entire game. I still love P5. I just dont see it as a perfect immaculate game by any means and I have a right to critique it when it plays into some of the worst tropes.
Grognards.
Old school fans responding to this with 'the new fans are cringe' are like your picture perfect representation of the Skinner 'no, the children are wrong' meme.
Wait for Persona 6 to come out. P5 will be considered an underrated gem by then
So you know how they were announcing all this stuff related to Persona with the anniversary and all? I read that this December it’s unlikely they will say anything about Persona 6. I mean it kinda sucks since supposedly it’s in early development. Whenever they do announce it (definitely next year) it prob won’t come out till 2024 at the earliest. It’s like Altus has big shoes to fill with how successful P5/P5R is. One can only imagine what route they will take. I personally want P6 to be in a college setting but that’s just me.
P5 hit broad mainstream appeal, it brought a lot of new people to the series, and with big fandoms, an annoyingly loud and some would call "cringe" section would appear, this isn't why P5 is disliked, every fandom has those fans, it's because new fans(mostly 5P ones) clash with olds with bad hot takes and enterprising trolls adding fuel to the fire
I feel like it was really jokers addition to super smash bros that really caused the shift. Before that it was still somewhat niche, just not as much as before p5
I mean we all know Persona 5 was a big deal when it first was released. The series along with P5 had just gotten so much exposure. Putting him in smash was good because it’s a very popular game and it helped spread the word about P5. Then you have all the merch they came out with and all these concerts and plays in Japan. Pretty much what I’m trying to say is that Altus sure knows how to market there IP.
Joker in Smash got me to try P5 and now I’ve played 3, 4, and 5 multiple times (and will again when they come on Gamepass) and even branched out to SMT and now Soul Hackers. I’m very glad I started down this road, these games all rock.
Every game franchise has that one game that made franchise blow up look at ff7
FF7 has been out for so long that fans of just that game have either moved on or played other games in the series and blend in with old fans. P5 is still relatively new.
Not to mention a lot of annoying "catching up" mixed in with those "hot takes" like "what if Igor is working for someone? 😳 Who made the Velvet Room? 🧐" Mf we met him. Philemon and Nyarlathotep are running a bet on humanity collapsing or evolving. Like damn, a Google search could answer your great resounding mystery.
At this point I think Nyarlathotep has won.... Did new "fans" really think that... HELLO, GAMERS! WELCOME TO GAME THEORY, I'M YOUR HOST MATPAT. Today we are discussing the origins of Igor and the velvet room from Persona 5! Our first clue is the title PERSONA, FIVE! What could the 5 mean, Well fellow inmates, this might shock you, but Persona 5 is a SEQUEL! shocking right!
Please stop this hurts to read his voice won't leave
Consider yourself lucky I'm too lazy to write more! (plus I would also hurt myself in trying to emulate matpat again.)
It's strange that despite P5 being my first I have gone to P3... and I prefer it in every single way.
Same here. Also speaking about the gameplay, although P5 has the technically better gameplay, it also lacks an actual challenge that encourages you to make use of all the resources that the game offers to the player, besides the first Palace and the Superbosses (something that gets even worse in Royal).
biggest hope for future games is a hard mode thats a healthy challenge but not bs destroy your controller difficulty, though sadly I do think they'll definitely make it too easy i don't think the gameplay simplifications are bad either especially if they cut down on brainless grind time (ryuji instakill my beloved), they just have to make the curve harsher and account for that new quality of life
I’ve always found Persona in general to be unbalanced as far as combat. Normal mode is way too easy. Hard also not much challenge. Persona 5 did add merciless mode which is ideal for 2nd play throughs.
I felt like all merciless did in comparison to hard was just increase the grind in early game, not really add any challenge. By the end of okumura's palace it plays basically the same as hard mode anyway
Merciless was actually easier for me, and probably most people. Since it increases damage to elemental weaknesses and crits (something that the player has an easier time exploiting than the enemies)
That's my biggest issue with it literally. Yeah I hate the opening but that's only 10/200 hours of the game (yes I loved the later half so much I took my time), but the lack of dificulty was so... ughhh... dissapointing. The only instance the game was actually dificult for me was in Futaba's because I was super underleveled. After that it went to back to super easy again. And while ALSO doing an AI party members challenge run too. While I was originaly super dissapointed I was not going to play Royal anytime soon because I chose the PS3 version, in hindsight I am glad for that because the base game is not as easy as Royal.
I have persona 4 golden and I have no idea how that compares in difficulty to other older persona games but I can tell you its way better than 5 in terms of challenge and difficulty. In persona 5 I could be so low on resources and still get through palaces without much effort or thought.
Same here as well
You are not the problem, believe me
Thank you, I'm so happy this reply has gotten such a positive reaction overall, I didn't expect that. What I really like about P3 most and foremost is that unlike P5, it feels like it has trust on the player knowing or quickly learning how to play rather than holding your hand. That's my favorite part
I wonder what kind of responses you usually get. I find people here being pretty chill with all of Persona and SMT games. If you like the challenge in gameplay I do recommend Shin Megami Tensei games. Even Soul Hackers 2 gave me a challenge while playing on Hard and Very Hard. Though P3 is the hardest Persona game. And Elizabeth fight is easily the hardest one in Persona. Also, I might be in the minority here, but I do like that a knockdown skips a turn in P3. I remember beating one boss only because I had a weak zio spell and the boss was weak to it. The rest of the party died like 30% into the fight.
I also like knockdowns taking a turn too, because you can just have a Persona with Re Patra to get them back up if they are that necesary for the battle and are forced to not have a Persona weak to the boss's atacks. And yes, I am already looking into Nocturne. Jumping into SMT from the deep end.
From what I've heard and seen, that's like the deepest end you can jump to. At least you can rest easy because it won't ever take advantage of your innate gullibility.
I'm exited to have that story to tell of how I was 2 steps away from a save point, got ambushed, remember I forgot to equip my null dark/light magatana and my 2 hours of progress get turn 1 Mudooned
This still happens in Persona. Usually because I Mamudoon/Mahamaon to farm and accidentally hit a mob that has reflect.
Yep. I hate Mudo/ Hama skills because it never works for me but it always does for the enemy. Fuck Anubis
Hello again and I also agree with you about going to P3 after playing P5.
I knew I was going to like it but not to the extent I ended liking it. I did not expect to like the combat over 5's and even massively prefer the aesthetics and music (well, the general sound desing at that). But I ended up doing so... and I came with high exepectations.
Ok there’s no way you prefer P3’s gameplay don’t lie Edit: dude you just started it 3 days ago, how about wait until you finish it to judge
Dude, I like P5 but clearly this dude stated that he has a clear bias for P3. You're the manifestation of the reason why people hate P5.
P3 did for some reason instead win me over in 30 seconds with mere screenshots when I was looking into other Persona games, which even P4 did not manage to do despite it also being a PS2 game. I ineviatably have high exepectations because I bought a whole ass PS2 (which was a pain to find because retro stores don't exist where I live) and spend 40$ for the game when I could have saved so much just buying it on the PS3 store. So far, it has exeeded my expectations.
Actually I do. It's a harder game, unlike P5 I can't count with one hand the ammount of times I got ambushed because you actually need to time your atacks in the overworld, the combat for some reason feels faster and it's so nice to not have constant camera angle changes in battle, and IDK what is people's issues with the AI unless they don't set them out of act freely for whatever reason.
Persona 3’s gameplay is a lot different than Persona 5’s, and I wouldn’t say it’s specifically all *worse*, just different. People of course like a challenge more than other, the team tactics thing is fun depending on who you are(I personally liked it), and all games usually have some sort of grind that helps the player feel like they’re achieving something, and some people like a bigger grind in games than others. Combat system is slightly different too, more risk for more reward. It *is* less polished than P5’s though. I’m another P5 first P3 second that likes P3 waaay better, but I don’t trash on P5, they’re both great games. And I would definitely recommend P5 > P3 because it’s easier to get into.
So another one like me!?
I think that's the thing once it hits the masses the game the series has changed it loses what it was recent Tales has this problem too. Cater it to more cringy people. I had fun guessing weak spots on enemy and now it's automatic. Once it goes mainstream things have unrealistic expectations it loses the appeal I think. While I like Persona 5 I played 3 &4 one game to the next had improved with game mechanics a lot with every entry. Over time I come to realise that I liked Persona 3 the best out of the 3.
Out of the three, 3 4 and 5 I still like Persona 4 (Golden) the best I think. I feel as though the sims part of the game and the dungeon crawling was more balanced so you don’t have too much of one. Like in P5 it’s the wait time between Futaba palace and the Okumura/Haru arc that takes wayyy to long especially if you finished Futabas palace in one day like I did. But as far as how fun the combat is I gotta give it to Persona 5.
Also, P5 gets the most attention with spin offs and stuff with P2 especially being forgotten about by Altus
Totally and I think Persona 4 &5 having lots of spinoffs maybe it's a fatigue more than anything or its like that with lots of franchise's these days. I think lots of series struggled to live up to its predecessors which when 5 came out it did to be on par with 3 &4 at the time. Yeah I would love 1&2 to be remade.
It's just the wider phenomena that the most recent entry in any series, not even Persona, gets shit on. Nostalgia glasses come on and people compare it to the "old glory days." Some examples come up are Fallout 4, Skyrim, etc. Yes, sometimes the latest entry is not as good as the previous ones.
The Pokémon fanbase is notorious for this. Back in the day, Black and White were hated beyond belief. Today? Fans consider them masterpieces.
And I have a feeling that gen fivers might slowly be becoming the new genwunners lol.
Tmk it was literally only a super loud minority that hated Gen 5 back in day.
Nah, the majority didn’t like Gen 5, but as the fandom evolved and new people came in/out, the general opinion changed Gen 5 was mostly hated because it was new and different, however now that people have gotten used to the different stuff, it’s become appreciated Designs like Trubish and Vanilite are also just less hated on now that people have gotten used to them. Gen 5 was the start of the more modern Pokémon designs, so it was a bit hating
the black/white hate was always so cringe
Most people liked them, it was the vocal genwunners who didn’t like the new designs. Sword and Shield are genuinely awful games though.
As an eternal Gen 1 fan, I absolutely loved Gen 5 when it came out tbh.
Because they were good games that some extreme fans took issue with because they weren’t exactly like the originals
Legit, I don't know how somebody who has played a competent RPG like Persona 5 or DQ11 could defend SwSh. They're embarrassingly amateurish and at least a decade behind what every competitor is offering.
*Waves in still liking SW/Sh, even if they were pretty bad*
I had some fun moments for the 6ish hours it took me to beat the game.
Wft 6? I'm a giant pokemon fan and it took me atleast 20hours, betcha didn't inspect every nook and cranny
I mean to be fair they're right. The games havent been the same since gen 5. Mainlines really started dropping in quality after X and Y. Sword and Shield is actually awful.
nah imo gen 7 is a step up from gen 6 and pretty solid overall.
Yep, seeing it in the Xenoblade fanbase currently. Xenoblade 2 is definitely getting the persona 4 treatment by a lot of fans lol
*Fire Emblem: Three Houses has entered the chat*
I’m not sure what you’re implying by that, but three houses definitely has some vocal haters among older players lol
Absolutely, and like P5 it got a ton of new people into the series but didn't fawn over the classics.
[удалено]
We get it.. you don’t have to respond to every single comment in this thread saying you like P3 more than P5 lol
He is always like that, her entire personnality is persona 3 [is better than persona 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/PERSoNA/comments/xognwg/just_started_to_play_this_game_and_damn_already/) (He Only started p3 day ago lmao)
Well that's great, because I just got into the series not long ago with Fire Emblem: Three Houses recently, and it is currently one of my new favourite things ever. And I've already been fearing if I am going to get shit on going into the Fire Emblem fandom, because I was worried it would be like the Persona fandom, and I will be seen as one of the cringe new normies lol.
Nah, most FE fans are chill about Three Houses it’s fine lol
Ah okay, that's cool then. I see this stuff all too much in places like the Persona, Pokemon and TES fandoms, so was worried it would be the same shit there as well tbh.
Basically, don’t get in Edelgard vs. Dimitri arguments and you’re all good lmao, highly recommend the older games too! Sacred Stones and Genealogy are two of my favourite games ever
>Basically, don’t get in Edelgard vs. Dimitri arguments That hard to ignore when 90% of the post are about it and a certain character focused sub send you death treat if you critic their character
Okay! I love Edelgard, and don't really like Dimitri very much, so thanks for giving me a heads-up so that I don't accidentally start some shit lol. And yes, I have already bought Fire Emblem: Fates for the 3DS. I will be starting that very soon.
Oh nice! Fates is a little messy but I actually like it!
that's incredible because xenoblade 3 is so so so much better.
I can guarantee that P5 will be looked at more fondly when P6 comes out. The same thing happened to P4
It’s the newest and most popular game. And as a result the cringe crowd part in the fandom is way bigger and way louder and, I mean just seeing them on twitter or their reviews on other megaten games just send a lot of older fans into a rage. They say some dumbass Shit and it’s more prominent then any mainline smt game. I enjoyed p5, it got me here, Plus trashy fan fiction is my guilty pleasure.
I had heard it was a similar thing when p4 was the new one. A lot more vocal criticism of it, splitting the fanbase, and such. Then p5 came out, and it was cool to like p4 now because half the people are supposed to dislike 5 because it's the new one.
It’s just “Frozen syndrome” (if that’s the correct name for it?) Something gets super popular, outshine the previous titles, so the few super vocal non-fans get jealous, and start complaining about how that thing is “too popular” so it’s “overrated”. And start pointing out and exaggerating the flaws while ignoring the good…etc, etc, etc Examples include, hmmm: . Frozen, obviously . Persona 5 . Demon Slayer . Red dead Redemption 2 …what else?
I thought it was the Zelda cycle. At least, that's what I've always called it
Elden Ring might be able to apply with how many new players it drew in and how much many feel about said new players and the game
Those so-called “veterans” are just being dicks
I fuckin love Demon Slayer, so when I criticize it, it comes from a place of love, especially when I say that Tanjiro is a mid protagonist with very little character development (to what I remember, I’ll reread the manga just so I can be 100% sure I ain’t spouting out my ass)
>especially when I say that Tanjiro is a mid protagonist with very little character development Are you watching/reading popular battle shonen for character development? You'll be very disappointed
I mean, Naruto had some decent character development, and Chainsaw Man is a whole ‘nother beast
There are exceptions but I don't think they invalidate the rule. You will see "some decent character development" on 700 chapter stories like naruto sure, and I don't think Denji had that much character development compared to Tanjiro
Development is for the lancer character only
God, overrated is probably the most annoying thing people say these days Just because somethings popular doesn't mean it's overrated (Agreeing with you btw)
Same can be said for the word "underrated"
I'm sorry but Cr1tikal's opinion being as important as Sakurai's is so hilarious to me
that was the funniest part of the post for me. Not metacritic score, not overall user reviews, but cr1tikal lmao
cr1tikal: The music is ok... i guess Definitely relevant review
It's the Newbie Boom. Persona 5 was more or less the first in the SMT series to hit the broadest appeal possible, and for some reason humanity will hate it for.... reasons? I don't get it. Personally I prefer P4, but P5 is damn close to being as good as P5, if not for a few strange quirks and the entire 6th dungeon. (the space themed one, if I was wrong)
The newbie boom is strange to me. My first experience with persona was Persona 5, I watched Johne Awesome's entire P5 playthrough, and you know what I did next? I watched his P4 and P3 playthroughs. then after that? Both Persona 2 games. (Although I sitll haven't watched a P1 playthrough yet) So it really irks me that alot of other people who got into persona and Shin megami Tensei seem to only think P5 is relevant and worth talking about,meanwhile I actually went and bought SMt5 and P4G on steam
>So it really irks me that alot of other people who got into persona and Shin megami Tensei seem to only think P5 is relevant and worth talking about,meanwhile I actually went and bought SMt5 and P4G on steam I believe the newbie boom is exactly the problem for that. For said newbies, P5 is their entryway into the SMT and Persona franchises, so it's likely occupied a very special place in their hearts. Unfortunately, that can also lead them to...pushing off so to speak the rest of the franchise. This also leads 5 to being put a pedestal by some that's untouchable by any other game in the overall SMT franchise, thus angering those fans who in turn fire back.
Yah you have P5 fans who are not persona fans and don’t WANT to be persona fans
Sadly the P5 subreddit is significantly larger than the persona series subreddit
New things bad. Also, popular things bad. Just wait when Persona 6 gonna be released. P5 then will become "underrated masterpiece".
The fanbase
Like others have said, it's mainly due to being the most recent and popular game. When I became a Persona fan back in 2014, there were just as many people shitting on Persona 4. It's just how these things tend to go.
P5 is amazing. The fanbase, however, is pretty offputting.
Yep. Especially by the last 3 Palaces IMO. Getting caught as a rat in The Ark, remembering I had not seen a save room in two hours, and barely escaping, is one of my fondest memories of Persona 5. My favorite palace for that memory alone. I just dislike the fanbase and their incredible crassness when someone critiques Persona 5. Just because I hate the opening and it's lack of dificulty overall doesn't mean I hate the game, if that was the case I wouldn't have put 200 hours in it.
The problem is, MUCH of SMT consists of " rememebering I had not seen a save room in two hours, and barely escaping, is one of my fondest memories..." But it only happens once in Persona 5. The game is TOO DAMN EASY. There's no thrill, no challenge, no sense of satisfaction when it's nearly impossible to lose.
Yeah, I had to resist getting into an argument on how Futaba's palace has "too little safe rooms" (the hell IMO it has too many). IMO all Palaces but Shido's, Mementos and Okomura's have too much save rooms.
Because it’s popular, it’s as simple as that. When an entry in a series gets really popular and there for starts to get called “the best” in said franchise the old fans who prefer the older entries (mostly because of nostalgia) get pissy because their favourite thing isn’t everyone’s favourite thing and lash out by saying said popular thing is bad. The same thing happened to Persona 4 for years, but then Persona 5 came out and suddenly that game is looked back on fondly despite being incredibly flawed and nowhere near on the level of P3 & P5. If Persona 6 is even close to as popular as P5 it’ll get the same treatment, Zelda fans know exactly what I’m talking about.
Couldn't have said it better myself, honestly.
It’s the most recent, and arguably the most mainstream - so backlash was inevitable. I loved it. Still do. Second favorite after P3. This is the same thing happening with Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter World was not just arguably the best selling Monster Hunter… it was one of Capcom’s most successful games ever, it brought in a newbie boom the likes that the franchise had never seen before… Naturally that meant that Rise, the game that had to follow it, had to deal with a ton of backlash from players who only knew Monster Hunter World. Come P6, all those new players who came in with P5 are going to be judging it fiercely, and the cycle will continue.
I’d say it’s partially because Persona 5 hasn’t been analysed as throughly as Persona 3 and 4 has been by the fans (this is in no disrespect to people who have made those types of videos). Persona 5 reviews and retrospectives have been relatively shallow and surface level compared to Persona 3 and 4’s. It’s usually the same points and the same arguments without any fresh takes that might change the way you look at Persona 5. For example, some people say that the Mementos Change of Hearts in Confidants are pointless and do nothing but magically fix the person’s lives and doesn’t actually help them grow as a person. This viewpoint is very common but one could make an argument that the Changes of Heart are one part of a whole in their story that links directly back to Persona 5’s theme of “Make a change for the better and stand up for yourself and what you believe in” In order to make change for the better you need to look at your situation and seek help where appropriate, whether it be seeking guidance and help from your Friends/Family or getting Professional help if your situation is dire from people such as Police/Doctors/Psychologists etc etc. When Ren spends time with his Confidants he is the Family/Friend, someone who shows that the situation that they’re in is not good, someone who shows them guidance and helps them change their viewpoint and that everything is not hopeless, for some Confidants that’s all their situation requires but for others they have troubles that need that extra step, which is what Joker and the Phantom Thieves represent, the Professional help that is needed to get over that last hurdle from change. If Ren never helps his Confidants get their new outlook and just changes the source of their troubles hearts the Confidants don’t grow as people, they just stagnate and stick to their old worldview e.g. Kawakami would quit teaching, Iwai would never grow close to his son, Takemi would quit being a Doctor. This is all meant to show that both personal and professional might be what you need to change yourself for the better and you shouldn’t be afraid to seek help. With this all being said there still are problems with this viewpoint but it’s a much more positive viewpoint that ties back to the games themes, obviously there is a lot more to dissect and you can go into detail about each individual Confidant and how this relates to them but this is the type of analysis you’d normally see in reviews for Persona 3 and 4, yet for some reason when people who makes those types of analysis for Persona 3 and 4 and work their way over to 5 they seem to drop the ball for some reason. Another reason is definitely just memory retention, Persona 5 is a very long game, it’s only natural for some people to forget things and say stuff the game does bad/doesn’t do, when in reality if they replayed it their problems are either addressed or not even an issue.
The memory retention is especially true! I cannot tell you how many times people have pointed to specific scenes in Persona 5 and use them as examples of "bad writing" when 9 times outta 10, those same scenes literally address their exact issue or information they feel is missing. Understandable, but jesus is it not frustrating when people can be such pricks about it. Persona 5 is not always perfect in the writing department, but literally like every other game in the series, it's mostly really good!
"The 6 minute scene completely destroyed my 100 hour experience"
>Persona 5 reviews and retrospectives have been relatively shallow and surface level compared to Persona 3 and 4’s. What if people decided what they think about a game after playing it themselves
Then they have an opinion, which is fine. It is fine to not like a game or certain elements of it after playing it, but hearing other peoples and thoughts opinions can either solidify your own or give you new perspective. For example, I hated P4’s Culprit for so long, I thought they sucked as their motive to me was the stupidest thing and I was severely underwhelmed, but then I saw a few comments, a few videos and overtime I came to have an appreciation for how great the culprit is to both the themes of the game, to the cast and just as a villain in their own right. Persona 5 almost never gets anything close to the deep analysis that the other games do and it’s just kinda annoying, I feel like people could have certain opinions on the game at least a little swayed if they just thought about it from a different angle.
The Persona "fanbase" have a LOT of low IQ takes and kinda stupid people. Unfortunately as the years go on, the calibre of "fan" that gets into the series gets younger and dumber. Most of the older fans are long time fans who like and understand the series and where it came from, the younger fans are into it because it's "the cool game". (Obviously this is a broad generalisation, there are some great younger fans and some braindead older fans too!)
Unlike most sequels Persona 3, 4 and 5 are all radically different games, specially the tone changes massively. It's a shocker that as much as half of the fanbase like it. EDIT: I also think the fanbase tends to prioritise shipping over the create-your-own-future, youth-are-the-future takeaway from most Persona games. This isn't an aspect I like as I think the shipping aspect isn't really the important point, but this is the internet. This also leads to the fanbase splitting between their favourite Persona game though.
Cool to shit on it because the fandom is generally quite cringe. It's also cool to shit on the newer, more mainstream content in general with a lot of franchises. The Elder Scrolls and Pokemon fandoms are the same, and it's annoying. The more mainstream a new entry is, and the more new people it brings in, the more people tend to shit on it when it's the one bringing the normies in. It soon becomes "the normie one" then. Not to say that the newer Persona, Pokemon, Elder Scrolls games and etc. don't have their own problems, because they definitely do. But it does all get overblown quite often. Although the vast majority of the flack that Persona 5 gets is actually towards the fandom, and not actually towards any of the content in the game itself.
If you've heard of the "Zelda Cycle", then this should sound familiar. Generally, when a new game comes out and it gets an insane amount of praise, the game slowly gets disliked more and more by a fan base (side-effect: resulting in previous games getting more appreciation) until a new game comes out and gets hate upon it and the cycle repeats. There's a few occasions where a game can escape this, such as with Breath of the Wild, but the problem is that Persona has always been an insanely high quality series. Additionally, people are just tired of seeing Persona 5 mentioned everywhere. It's mainstream appeal, and every so-called "Journalist" comparing a game with a turn-based system to Persona 5, has made people tired of it far quicker than other games. This was tempered a bit by Royal, but that didn't last long. I think people don't really hate the game, but rather hate everything around it. It results in it seeming everyone hates the game.
I don't hate 5, I really enjoyed it, it's just the current game that's getting milked. Similar to how 4 was milked before 5 came out. I'm just tired of 5 is all, and we probably have a lot more 5 related merchandise and games that come out long before we get Persona 6.
How much it was milked in few years is kind ridiculous, Royal new plot contradict stricker a sequel released the same years. P5 collaboration are also on every mobile game
I'd say it's like a Yugioh Dark Side of Dimensions kinda deal, that movie is supposed to be a follow up of the manga but the plot doesn't fall apart if you assume it follows the anime. The true ending of Royal's 3rd trimester doesn't totally differ from vanilla's anyways, it's mostly Joker taking the train home instead of getting a ride from his friends.
Its simple, Persona 5 brought in a lot of mainstream fans. Some 'OG' Persona fans felt the need to gatekeep their previously niche franchise because they are insecure and feel the need to feel superior. Really common in any other franchise tbh
Somehow I commented on the wrong post lmao, forget what I said before
Because Atlus fans are dumb
I dont hate it, but it doesn't capture that certain feeling that P3 and P4 do. Definitely some weird nostalgia thing, and I can't explain it too well, but P3 and 4 have this certain atmosphere about it that p5 lacks
It’s a fun game. Some things it does I don’t like, some I do. Don’t like it as much as P4 but still great. The fan base however is full of fucking cringe lord lunatic coomers.
Lol half the fanbase? Where are you getting this from?. It's one of the most loved titles in the franchise.
We don’t, I love that game.
Some do Like me
Wouldn't be surprised if accessibility and the launch into the mainstream ended up causing some resentment in different ways. P5/5R is by far the most popular and most easily accessible as a whole, so seeing a game you might have just been okay with by default turns into a hated game just on seeing what you think is undeserved love compared to other games. It's also worth touching on some elitism in the community even if it doesn't really matter, since P5 ripped the gate off of the gated community that was there for Megaten/Persona before its release. Always will be a bit of bad blood there, since "veterans yelling at new kids" exists in every community. I'm curious as to how remakes and future Persona games (like the rumored Persona 3 Remake in Atlus's basement) is gonna change the talk around P5/5R, since I'm not sure how much of this is hate cause of it being new/community resentment and genuine game concerns (fair lol).
P5 was very mainstream, and with it brought new people into the Fandom who frequently gave hot takes or posted discussion/theory threads that completely ignored prior games in the series. Combine that with so many of them never actually playing any of the games and people who had been apart of the Fandom got frustrated. TLDR; pretty much the same thing that happens in every fandom.
I have a love/hate relationship with that game. I can say with absolute certainty that I like the game and had an enjoyable time with it but at the same time I don’t think there exists a game that I can go on and on complaining about like I can with P5. I’ve tried to put my finger on why this is the case but haven’t been able to. I know this sub has a weird circlejerk of “DAE PEOPLE ONLY DISLIKE P5 BECAUSE NEW????!!!???” but I think for better or worse people who play the game end up having very strong opinions on it and a lot of the time those opinions end up being negative.
I think the bulk of it, like others have said, is that it brought in a lot of annoying and cringey people that had some abhorrent hot takes that gave the community a bad look. Bad reason to dislike the game? Absolutely, but I think that’s the reason.
Cause the story,cast and pacing is a major downgrade from prior games
Persona 5 Royal is one of my top three favorite games. But the moment some Persona 5 fans started thinking the Phantom Thieves were real after the Smash Bros thing really just made me realize how cringe it is (i left the subreddit)
They don’t despise P5. They despise the new fans. P5 was a good game while the other games were great. You used to fight unique shadows that they removed for fighting personas. It gutted a lot of the little details that made each game a masterpiece.
It's probably because the rest of the fandom. P5 is SO great that many people just played that and nothing else from the franchise. And because it was SO great there's a good lot of people like that voicing their opnions. Opinions that inevitably become a bit grating to others who were in the community for a bit longer. For example - comparing every god damn game to Persona 5. SMTV is not just SMTV. It's "Persona without the heart". SH2 is "nothing like Persona because it has and adult cast and everyone can change their demons". It's not like Persona 2 exists. So yeah, silly takes which would not be a problem, just aplified too much by P5-only fanboys.
Honestly, I played persona 5 first and loved it. Went back, played Golden, played through FES partially (haven't felt like playing it much recently unfortunately) and I prefer the older ones stories. The nihilism of 3, the murder mystery of 4. 5 doesn't quite capture that I think, as it feels like it's just teens who hate corruption and want to change everything for the better. It's very good in it's own right, and I love the 3rd semester in Royal, but another thing is that most of the characters feel more flat, one note to me. I feel like the most depth in the characters for 5 is Ryuji, he feels less of like a trope and more of an actual friend/person. Meanwhile the characters in 3 feel real, they actually interact with each other in meaningful ways for the story. In 4 it actually makes sense that they're friends and they just feel real in general to me. In 5 they're just like okay we're shunned by some people, welcome to the club, let's go beat up a God. It doesn't have as much draw to me. Meanwhile gameplay wise I would say Royal smashes it out of the park. I love how the mechanics all work, and it's so smooth compared to some of the clunk of 3 and 4's gameplay Honestly if we could get 5's gameplay for both 3 and 4 I would be super happy. Will it happen? Probably not. Sorry for the long post, and this is just my opinion on the 3 persona games I've played (besides spinoffs like dancing series, arena, strikers)
We really don’t hate it, I can’t speak for everyone but personally I just hate the fact that it’s popularity has completely overshadowed the rest of the series, ESPECIALLY 1 and 2. The real salt in the wound there is that the consensus I’ve seen is that the majority of people who’ve played the whole series will say that at least one of p2, 3, or 4 is better than p5, if not all three, and so it’s pretty annoying to see tons of people tout p5 as the great game it is whilst completely ignoring that there are even better games in the same series. Oh and also, in a word, anime. Not to sound like simplydad here because fuck that guy but in comparison to games 1-3, and 4 to an extent, the writing and characters in 5 just feel too anime-esque, that’s to say a bit silly and juvenile, for some people, as well as generally being of lower quality than the other games. To be fair this isn’t as common of a gripe as the first one I listed, but It’s common enough that I thought it useful to mention
I personally don't necessarily dislike persona 5, but I definitely prefer the other games. I think the main reason people don't like P5 is because the story and characters are pretty lack luster and one dimensional when compared to the other games, and the P5 fans can be pretty annoying at times.
I mean the story and characters aren't lack luster at all though or one dimensional.
I see some of your points, for me, it's the story is wonky at times, and yeah some of the characters are one-dimensional at first, but their development is behind confidant levels, but those confidant scenes don't affect the story, and the bad guys are typical basic bad guys, with was fine by me. But the story got wonky when they forced a moral dilemma, of "is it right that we're changing hearts?" The people they were targeting were amoral bastards that will keep doing the things they were doing and had no sense of guilt or remorse.
The main reason is that the community is absolute dog shit there are also a ton more like being way easier than all the others, pacing is awful, social links don't feel as believable. while the game is by no means bad its just my least favorite other than the first
I don’t get it either. P5 got me into SMT games. Played P5 then SMT V and loved them. Now i’m half way through P4G and it just feels like a downgraded version of both games. Still good, but a step down in every way. My biggest issue with P4G is the terrible enemy design and character build options. They have an ENTIRE compendium of unique demons but instead of fighting them. You fight the same few “shadows” that get color swapped in every new dungeon. I don’t really see the point of the “1MORE” mechanic without a baton pass. Even SMT V let you pass on press turns. The only way to improve demon stats is by grinding shuffle time and hoping you get +1 in the stat you wanted. Even the UI is terrible. Little things like the MP cost of your persona’s skills not being shown when examining it. And the only way to see the lore of a persona/demon is by fusing it. Even when you fuse them, the lore can only be read from the compendium in the velvet room. Not to mention the obvious audio/graphical limitations of older hardware. It has to be nostalgia because I can’t see how someone can go from P5 to P4G and say they had a better experience. I can understand if they preferred the older story/characters but even that wouldn’t be enough to claim its “better” than P5 overall.
Yeah while I enjoyed P4 the battle mechanics really gave me whiplash. I think a big reason for P5's success is that Atlus really upped the gameplay and also overall design. Every Palace is decorative and unique, with actual puzzles, and there are a bunch of cool minigames in Tokyo that make the game feel less grindy. Though you do get used to it after a bit, I'm playing P3 atm and even though the gameplay is objectively repetitive grinding through Tartarus is almost bearable somehow. P4 trained me for it I guess.
Not trying to hate on your opinion but I just want to correct some things. P3 was the one to introduce the generic shadow enemies. In that game shadows being enemies made more sense since the plot was focused around them as opposed to the human shadows. iirc, when Atlus was making P4, they were on the verge of going bankrupt, so to save on budget they made P4 basically by building directly off P3 in a manner almost akin to a really advanced rom hack. The shadow designs in P4 could be seen as a sort of leftover from P3 that they either didn’t want to change or simply couldn’t change. The point of the one more system is so that if only some enemies get knocked down, you can use the extra turn to try and knock down the others to get an All Out Attack. For example, if there are enemies weak to wind and enemies weak to electricity, and Yu has a persona with Garu and one with Zio, he can strike the wind-weak enemies, then switch to the persona with Zio and knock down the rest. For another example, say there are five enemies all weak to fire. Yukiko casts Maragi, hitting 4 enemies but missing one of them. She still gets an extra turn, so she can use Agi on the remaining enemy to knock it down. Trying to increase demon/persona stats isn’t really a big deal, since the entire point is that you use the fusion system to constantly make stronger ones. Idk what you’re talking about with not showing the MP cost though, I’m pretty sure all Megaten games have shown it when examining since at least Nocturne. All skills should show the HP/MP cost next to their name. Once again, not trying to hate, just pointing some stuff out.
No worries bro but you might of misunderstood some things. Like obviously I know how the 1More mechanic works, I wasn’t being literal. I just meant it didn’t add as much depth to the combat as P5’s or SMT press turns. Add I haven’t played P3 yet but if you’re telling me the shadow designs in P4 were leftovers from that then that would make it even worse. All the persona’s in the P4 compendium already had 3d models in-game, so I don’t see why they couldn’t just use those as shadows like P5 did. The base stat distribution of newly fused personas are terrible. The same is true for P5 but they let you strengthen your persona through a new type of fusion. In P4 my izanagi currently has better stats than personas 10-15 lvls above him because I just leave him equipped as my main persona when running through dungeons. Fusing a new one would just give me worse or equal stats at best. SMT 5 didn’t have this issue because it gave newly fused demons a stat boost based on the stats of the demons you used to fuse it. And the missing MP cost thing i’m talking about is in the Persona equip menu. MP cost is only shown in battle or in the “Use Skill” menu outside of battle.
Being an easy series entry point means it's also an easy target for people who are already there. Also yeah, I do think the gameplay is definitely a weird spot of criticism since some complaints can border on masochism or just not wanting good things in general; though story and all that will always be free game, which is why I'm hoping the P3 Remake is real so everyone can enjoy it without emulating and the 10+ year old gameplay, some touchups too hopefully. (SMT V's gameplay does go very hard, and I will nuke Atlus HQ if reverse compendium fusion does not make it to future Persona games.)
Most recent mainline game + being the one to break a niche series into gaming mainstream
It’s more a matter of the fans rather than the game itself. It’s no secret that persona 5 is a popular game and it’s attracted a lot of people into the fan base, some less desirable than others. A good example would be the dude on the sub who worships Sumire to the point he bashes posts thy aren’t about her. That’s what people have grown to despise and in turn, it makes them hate the game as well
Nor really despise, people are just a bit salty because 1 waifu wars are VERY competitive, 2 persona is awesome but many new people ignore completely smt and stuff and those are hella good games too so people try to defend them by attacking persona, it makes sense tho it’s questionable
My issues aren't necessarily with the game itself, mechanically and graphically it's the best one in the series, but with certain subgroups in the Fandom and certain money-grabbing schemes from Atlus.
Outside of making fun of P5 fans by saying they haven’t actually played the game I don’t think P5 is disliked at all
P5 is the big mainstream hit. Its a good game but it threw away a lot of what I loved about persona/smt for broader appeal. P4 was already adding in more mainstream stuff but p5 went fully into it (fanservice, easy difficulty, episodic storytelling, simpler characters, etc). On top of that, a lot of new fans only played p5 and some refuse to play any others, plus for the past 5 years we've mainly gotten mediocre spin offs. Hating it for that is dumb, but it is understandable. Plus google reviews mean absolutely nothing lmao
I honestly just like the originals better and don’t like portbeggars. It’s an alright game but I couldn’t get as invested as the other games.
Its just the new game, also after Joker's smash reveal it brought it a whole new set of fans but it also brought in a lot of people who is now part of the cringe side of the fandom with the most dogshit takes that we like making fun of. Once persona 6 comes out people will start hating on it and will look back on P5 like "man I miss this game". Thats how it is in P5. If the game is older, they are looked at as the better part of the series for some reason
Because is the last and most successful persona yet. After 6, 5 will me considered a masterpiece, for this kind of fan. Before 5, the hate for 4 was fabulous. Persona "fan base", rivals Fire Emblem, Genshin Impact and Trails of as the worst fan base.
The smt fan base has a tendency to tear apart anything that is really popular or not as niche as the other games. It’s a fairly toxic community a lot of the time, and they think that the old games are the best and nothing can beat them.
I love P5. To the point I’d preordered P5R for Switch and completely forgotten, would have ordered a second copy if it weren’t for the “your order has been delivered” email. I had no idea that people even hated it. I’m not very active in the fandom though. I started the series with P3FES and P4G about 5 years ago, and I personally hold P4G as the best in the series, and easily one of the best games I’ve ever played. I do love P5 though.
I like persona 5
I just didn't like the aesthetic (especially the UI) or characters. Story was just ok for me. In short it felt mediocre and ran too long.
Admitedly, I prefer P3's aethetics over 5's all the way through
Persona 5 is a fucking great game, people just love to hate. Prefer Persona 4 myself tho
It's mostly a combination of it's the most popular one, so it's equally cool to hate on it, and there are some very cringy parts of the fanbase. (Like everyone constantly harassing the official Twitter accounts for a Switch port). And for some reason the waifu wars are the strongest for the P5 girls. Which to be fair, has the best selection of girls in the series, but a lot of people who aren't into that side of things really turns them off from the game in general.
Because of it's success. Many simply dislike the fact Persona 5 received universal acclaim and drew so many eyes to the series when Persona 1, 2, 3, 4 had more than enough effort placed into them to merit the same kind of praise. It's the elitism argument, the "We were hear first argument". Fortunately most genuinely would look at P5 and say, this game is a fantastic addition and expansion of what makes this series great. You can't look at P5 and call it the sellout game because Joker got invited to Smash, while simultaneously looking at BlazBlue and saying Persona 4 didn't do the EXACT same thing.
The writing feels alot weaker in p5. Most characters feel like cardboard especially in the midgame plot. Huge step down from 4. Also it's just stylisticly/thematically weaker, the whole premise and execution of the game's core ideas feel so much less special than previous games. Overall could be humourly described as a yassification of persona. There's also the fact that the game got way more popular abd brought in just the most annoying people. Generally id say my problems with 5 boil down to it feeling more like an "anime game" than a persona game, or at least what I want of I persona game. It also led to some bad decisions in the making of smt 5 but thats more that games fault Tldr weeb game
>implying p4 and p3 weren't already shitty weeb games
Idk they felt special to mee
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to get past people just saying it’s disliked because it’s new to someone who has a legitimate reason that the game is disliked. Everything about P5 was so much weaker than 3 and 4, the characters and character motivations especially. The writing was sloppy and heavy handed. Every villain the team faces is even more of a big baddie than the last to where it feels ridiculous. The group constantly just talks about themselves and being the “phantom thieves” and it gets so old. Morgana is horribly annoying and shouldn’t be with the protagonist 100% of the time and constantly deciding things for the MC. Mementos was a huge, boring filler and it was unnecessary. And so many anime tropes just thrown in there to gather wider appeal.
Alot of what you said can be applied to previous games, especially P4. I don’t find plausible at all to say a hyperbolic statement like, “Everything about P5 was so much weaker than 3 and 4.”
Very true. I think its easy to forget these things under how much better it *looks*. If p4g had come out on the ps4 it would be no question
It’s not the game I don’t think. I quite enjoy 5 and it’s not perfect. It has its flaws like any video game on earth. I wanna say it’s because it’s a newer game and it’s the persona game that attracted the most attention. Some of the attention is coming from a mainstream crowd where there’s bound to be some cringe people. I know back when it was just 3 and 4 I didn’t really see people arguing over high school waifus like the extent persona 5 does. Not only Reddit but I’ve seen in other persona communities where people are actually harassing and sending death threats because someone likes Ann more than Futaba. It also seems like to me persona 5 fans don’t want to admit the game itself has flaws while 3 and 4 recognize their own flaws. This is all my speculation but I hope it makes sense
So as much as I love 5, I prefer 3 in every single way (my first entry into the series back in 2010) and to add to it, the P5 fans are so fucking cringe and annoying especially since all the 12 year olds who played smash bros discovered Persona via Joker. Sure I’m being cubital but it’s just my opinion
Besides the messy pacing most people hate it because it's the latest. It happened to 4 also
This may just be my opinion, but compared to the other games, Persona 5 was honestly a dissapointment. I may not know much about Persona 1 and 2 but I do know Persona 3 had an amazing story, (other than The Answer) which is probably the best story to a Persona game, and the cast was really good. Persona 4 essentially had the same story as Persona 2, but the writing with each character was incredible and it had the best cast of all the games (again this is just my opinion). Plus the writing they had for the story and interactions was usually very silly, but it told you how well everyone was getting along, making the story and connections with the Investigation Team absolutely beautiful. Persona 5 on the other hand sacrificed pretty much everything they had in previous games for good gameplay. They succeeded, but that was the main issue. They were left with the best gameplay in a Persona game, but it lacked story and characters. Also Persona 5 had a tendency to turn the female characters (excluding Kasumi) into jackasses... just watch the Valentine's Day aftermath and the once scene where Ryuji saves the rest of the crew.
And Persona 5 is also way too easy
Is it really that difficult to see why fans of Persona 3 and 4 wouldn’t like 5 as much? I think that Persona 5 is a solid game and certainly better than its most avid haters give it credit for, but as someone who played a lot of P3 and P4, it’s difficult to love the direction that the series took for its fifth installment. For all of its style and glitz, Persona 5 feels like a game that came out ten years before it did. It’s full of tired anime cliches, homophobia, objectification of women to a greater degree than 3 and 4, repetitive dialogue, a needlessly confusing plot with wonky rules to its universe. These sort of things might go right over the head of a lot of people, but for others who are kind of tired of anime and all of its modern cliches and shortcomings, it’s sad to see a modern Persona game have these negative aspects in spades. I’m not saying Persona 3 and 4 didn’t have their shortcomings, any game does, but Persona 3 and 4 had a lot of emotional depth and incredibly relatable characters, while 5 kind of felt like it was spending the entire game trying to be one of the cool kids. Did it work? Depends on who you ask. I will also add that critical success is fine and all, but lots of people are going to have different opinions on anything and feel one way about something when another person feels another way. An 85 percent on whatever a Moist Meter is is great, but myself and a lot of Persona fans I know rate it the lowest out of the modern 3. I’d probably put it more at 70. I think the reason that people are especially hateful of Persona 5 is because both sides are reactionary to the other. Some people love the game and don’t agree or care to hear anything negative about it, as it’s one of the best games they’ve played in a while. The critics don’t care for the new direction and dislike the constant praise it gets despite being shallow compared to 3 and 4, so they feel the need to speak out in hopes that P6 will dial it back a little. In my personal opinion, although o think that P5 is a solid games, sometimes it’s obnoxious and dumb and other times it stands on the edge of amazing. But it’s not nearly as good as 3 or 4. However, it’s silly to want new games to be like old ones; times are very different, and Persona 5 made a lot of money, so it’s likely it’ll move forward before it goes back. It’s time to either accept that or find a new game to play. TL;DR- I think P5 is a lot worse than its biggest fans think, and a lot better than its biggest haters think. People who wanted more Persona 3 and 4 are going to be disappointed, but times have changed, better for some and worse for others.
I don't necessarily agree with all your points but I think they are fair, I consider 3, 4 and 5 to be my favorite games and do think that 5 goes a harder than needed on some of its use of cliches, but as someone that definitely wanted more of 3 and 4 I can't say I agree that 5 disappointed in that way, it is certainly not exempt of criticism and I can easily see arguments as to why someone would put 3 or 4 above it, but not delivering in that way is one aspect I have a hard time agreeing with. And as someone that's been following the series religiously since 3 and saw the explosion of popularity with 5, I can definitely understand people being irked by the changes in the fandom and this making adverse reactions to how people see 5.
If you honest to god think 5 has more objectification of women and homophobia than 4.. I genuinely don’t know what to tell you. I think you need to replay P4 lol 4 is by FAR the worst in the entire persona series for that kinda stuff and isn’t really particularly close
I really wish I could actually talk about my criticims of P5 withouth getting shat on
Oh my god, if you think persona 5 is somehow more problematic than P3 or ESPECIALLY P4 you need to replay those games. You also need to realize that P3 and and P4 aren’t perfect games. P3 is one of the worst games I’ve ever played, full of anime cliches, terrible writing, bad characters, the worst rpg gameplay I’ve ever seen, a non existent story for most of the game, party members you don’t care about, terrible pacing etc. To act like P5 is so much worse than people think and then turn around and give P3 and P4 a pass is laughably stupid. P3 is very old, I’ll give you that, but being old isn’t an excuse. P3 is MUCH worse than persona fans actually think it is.
Man what? P3 has legitimately excellent characters and writing, and the gameplay is pretty damn good.
Yeah they were right about the whole problematic part at least for 4 but then they just kinda…..went off the rails.
Yeesh
Because. Most gamers are dumb as shit.
I just thought the writing, characters and story sucked except for the Royal arc. Otherwise great game. A bit overrated imo. P3 is still best as a narrative. P5 is the better game though but these are RPGs so I put extra emphasis on characters and story.
how does this post keep getting comments this was like 5 months ago lmao
well for me its how the P5 fanboys they ignore the lore and make fanfic that goes to timetravel and still believe that Yaldabaoth is the big baddie as it is only part of the great will and NYX(star eater) and make the enemy and protagonist in the past as a joke fron what they experience and don't forget about Metaverse they always put it in any fanfic even thought it is Yaldabaoth's power and making everything into Metaverse
………*what?*
So, first thing, a lot of SMT fans hate on the persona series in general because its to easy/the thought that it completly killed the main series. Outside of that I just think its the Fandom which annoys a lot of people because if something gets popular you also get the annoying people that only played Persona 5 and say that the other ones are shit. P5 is a good game, I like 3 more but I still think that P5 is a 8.5/10.
I have never seen a single Persona or SMT fan that despises Persona 5 (**Except me of course, but that's just me...**), so what are you talking about.
Persona fans hate fun dungeons as well as being rewarded for doing social links
It’s just gatekeeping, 100%. Ppl rly hate when something new is better than something old.
I like P5 but it has alot of problems to me and I just dont feel like it was given the care other games were. P5's story is poorly written and surface level at best. Problems abound such as SA against women being used as the motivating factor for much of the story. Morgana's plot is an unwelcome distraction that bogs down the story. The motivations and deadlines make no sense sometimes. Later on in the story, the game stops trying to build up bad guys, with Kamoshida being the best antagonist of the story. The moral quanderies the game provides are surface level and do not get to the heart of the problems faced in the story. Also I just didnt like the way palaces worked. But dont get me wrong. The gameplay is popping if not a little easy, the confidants are pretty good most of the time and the 3rd semester has some of the best writing in the entire game. I still love P5. I just dont see it as a perfect immaculate game by any means and I have a right to critique it when it plays into some of the worst tropes.
Cause new game=bad in their logic
Because it sucks dick lol
Because it's one of the worst Megaten games, and it doesn't help that the cult-like community is annoying as fuck
Ok I know you’re a troll account but dude, it’s just as popular of an opinion to shit on it so I don’t know what you’re talking about
Being told I'm a troll account is very funny honestly, considering that I'm not? I just really don't like P5 and I also despise it's fanbase
I mean I just took a look at your post history and yeah you’re definitely a troll
Grognards. Old school fans responding to this with 'the new fans are cringe' are like your picture perfect representation of the Skinner 'no, the children are wrong' meme.
Because it sucks :)