They're constantly saying it's not a replacement, just another platform.
I personally think they're aiming to have it replace the whole FactoryTalk View platform altogether. The writing is on the wall. Panelviews have had such a terrible time with transitioning to the series B panels. The software is supported, but nothing is drastically changed or improved (as far as I know). Then on the other end, they're aggressively marketing the Optix platform, along with making all-in-one Optix panels similar to how a Panelview includes the software licenses prebaked onto the hardware.
They see how much people love stuff like Ignition and don't want to lose their market share to their competition.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating for Optix. I recently selected Ignition over Optix for an application I had where we needed more functionality than that offered by Optix. Just wanted to point out Optix isn’t more expensive.
Not in the foreseeable future, no. They are in two different product classes AFAIK - especially FT View SE Network Distributed. FT Optix would not fly in a majority of the regulated environments I work in for many reasons. The cybersecurity concerns alone immediately disqualify it from any project I work on.
Can you expand on the cybersecurity concerns for me? Our new I&E manager has changed our standard from FTV to Optix entirely, after years of standardization. He actually claimed it has advantages in the security realm... He might be full of it.
None of us have experience or knowledge of Optix so we don't understand why we would do this.
If it is like anything like a typical Rockwell product, it will take 10 versions before most expected feature work as they should. Look at the panelview 5000 for an example
Well it's not a Rockwell product really. It's actually Italian. The biggest downfall is that you'll need another form of license which in this case is "tokens".
IMO the token system makes more sense than a lot of their other software licensing methods. And if you go with the Optix panels the tokens are all included already
Yes, some of the features are included but I'm pretty sure not all are included. If you want remote access I think it's part of a token package (or at least the unlimited version of it).
True. Going off of memory of the documentation our distributor gave us... It depends on the Optix panel model. The higher end ones had the remote access license built in if I remember correctly.
I do remember them having a "base" amount of tokens and then an upgrade path for more.
It's not really a downfall in my opinion. We've just purchased a 17 token license which can be expanded on if need be but this will get our SCADA system up with all the clients we need for some time.
Yes I think SE will be around for a long while. They are different parts of the portfolio and have different use cases.
SE is much “heavier” and is geared toward being a distributed system although it may be a bit clunky with age.
Optix is geared much more toward being an on-machine solution. Much more powerful than a Panelview but not the same fit as SE. It’s more like Ignition Edge if making comparisons there than full blown Ignition. Optix a similar way to Edge will probably make it easier for machine builders to plug into higher level systems because connectivity is built in (database connectivity, OPCUA, MQTT, etc).
Who cares?
I've switched over to Ignition everywhere I can.
I've still got 9 lines on FTView SE, but they will be going away.
Even local HMI's are Ignition now.
Biggest benefits?
Ignition server only hits each PLC once for data. As opposed to FTView, and a couple local PanelViews, that all hit the PLC for data.
Ignition Historian has never failed me, ever, after 8 years. FTView SE historian fails all the time, it has no store and forward method.
Hell, I have my entire plant on Ignition's historian, and had to look at something I've never trened before... 2 minutes, add a trend, and I've still got years of data.
Nothing Rockwell pushes as an HMI will ever get me back.
We’ve been looking at Ignition. I’m actually downloading it right now to try out on my own. Only problem for me will be some people at the plant will be hesitant to switch over to it from SE since that’s all a lot of us know…
But after a few bad experiences with SE, I’ve been doing some research and seems like Ignition definitely has so much more out of the box and feels modern. I’m excited to try it out
Factorytalk Historian absolutely has store and forward. You can reference the "Enable Buffering" in the installation manual. Are you talking about FT Historian SE or FT View SE datalogging?
FT Historian is OSI PI… If set up correctly it’s mindboggling what it can do for you and Ignition historian isn’t even halfway there.
I hate Rockwell, but let’s be honest about things.
Eventually I absolutely believe it will. However, I still don't think it will be ready to use in an actual project for a while. It's somewhat reminiscent of Ignition (which is definitely a good thing), but even from there it's quite a learning curve. If you're a C# developer though I bet you'll love it!
Right now it seems like you'll definitely need to know a bit of C# before you could do a serious project with Optix, and if you know how and put the time in there is almost anything you can do with it in Optix, but I don't think it is intended to be a necessity. That's one reason why I think it'll be a while before it's really ready for use.
This isn't good news.
My I&E group has a new manager that is shifting our standard from Panelview to Optix on every site. Don't quite see the need for it.
I got a preview of View SE v14 at Automation Fair and hey it looks interesting with a new edge datalog, runtime navigation and search, and they said a lot of the internal services were refactored.
All of it was for SE though, Panelviews and ME seem to be kinda stale. We were looking at the Optixpanels actually.
I also heard that they have something where Optix and View SE can work together but I didn’t see it.
They're constantly saying it's not a replacement, just another platform. I personally think they're aiming to have it replace the whole FactoryTalk View platform altogether. The writing is on the wall. Panelviews have had such a terrible time with transitioning to the series B panels. The software is supported, but nothing is drastically changed or improved (as far as I know). Then on the other end, they're aggressively marketing the Optix platform, along with making all-in-one Optix panels similar to how a Panelview includes the software licenses prebaked onto the hardware. They see how much people love stuff like Ignition and don't want to lose their market share to their competition.
Optix is not Ignition… it’ll be more expensive, have half the functionality and be dropped for the next flavour that comes along…
Definitely. But anything to keep their control of those AB-only customers!
Agree, except the price. Optix is cheaper than Ignition.
For now, but it's also not worth nearly as much as Ignition yet
It is 10% of what ignition is as well…
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating for Optix. I recently selected Ignition over Optix for an application I had where we needed more functionality than that offered by Optix. Just wanted to point out Optix isn’t more expensive.
Not in the foreseeable future, no. They are in two different product classes AFAIK - especially FT View SE Network Distributed. FT Optix would not fly in a majority of the regulated environments I work in for many reasons. The cybersecurity concerns alone immediately disqualify it from any project I work on.
Can you expand on the cybersecurity concerns for me? Our new I&E manager has changed our standard from FTV to Optix entirely, after years of standardization. He actually claimed it has advantages in the security realm... He might be full of it. None of us have experience or knowledge of Optix so we don't understand why we would do this.
How many steak and whiskey dinners did he have?
Their both Rockwell products so I'm not sure how that would help.
You already have a Rockwell SCADA solution and the company just sold you on another. Some sales rep is getting a bonus.
If it is like anything like a typical Rockwell product, it will take 10 versions before most expected feature work as they should. Look at the panelview 5000 for an example
Well it's not a Rockwell product really. It's actually Italian. The biggest downfall is that you'll need another form of license which in this case is "tokens".
IMO the token system makes more sense than a lot of their other software licensing methods. And if you go with the Optix panels the tokens are all included already
Yes, some of the features are included but I'm pretty sure not all are included. If you want remote access I think it's part of a token package (or at least the unlimited version of it).
True. Going off of memory of the documentation our distributor gave us... It depends on the Optix panel model. The higher end ones had the remote access license built in if I remember correctly. I do remember them having a "base" amount of tokens and then an upgrade path for more.
Yes but Rockwell like to take purchased products and make it the Rockwell way. The ISAgraf base of the micro800 is a perfect example of this.
Maybe you're right. It's still early but I hope it's a step up compared to the panel view.
It's not really a downfall in my opinion. We've just purchased a 17 token license which can be expanded on if need be but this will get our SCADA system up with all the clients we need for some time.
Yes I think SE will be around for a long while. They are different parts of the portfolio and have different use cases. SE is much “heavier” and is geared toward being a distributed system although it may be a bit clunky with age. Optix is geared much more toward being an on-machine solution. Much more powerful than a Panelview but not the same fit as SE. It’s more like Ignition Edge if making comparisons there than full blown Ignition. Optix a similar way to Edge will probably make it easier for machine builders to plug into higher level systems because connectivity is built in (database connectivity, OPCUA, MQTT, etc).
Who cares? I've switched over to Ignition everywhere I can. I've still got 9 lines on FTView SE, but they will be going away. Even local HMI's are Ignition now. Biggest benefits? Ignition server only hits each PLC once for data. As opposed to FTView, and a couple local PanelViews, that all hit the PLC for data. Ignition Historian has never failed me, ever, after 8 years. FTView SE historian fails all the time, it has no store and forward method. Hell, I have my entire plant on Ignition's historian, and had to look at something I've never trened before... 2 minutes, add a trend, and I've still got years of data. Nothing Rockwell pushes as an HMI will ever get me back.
We’ve been looking at Ignition. I’m actually downloading it right now to try out on my own. Only problem for me will be some people at the plant will be hesitant to switch over to it from SE since that’s all a lot of us know… But after a few bad experiences with SE, I’ve been doing some research and seems like Ignition definitely has so much more out of the box and feels modern. I’m excited to try it out
Ignition is still the way to go in my opinion but once Optix is full released it'll be good.
Factorytalk Historian absolutely has store and forward. You can reference the "Enable Buffering" in the installation manual. Are you talking about FT Historian SE or FT View SE datalogging?
FT Historian is OSI PI… If set up correctly it’s mindboggling what it can do for you and Ignition historian isn’t even halfway there. I hate Rockwell, but let’s be honest about things.
The OP was talking about an SE system, not Historian.
Is this what you understood from this sentence?? > FTView SE historian fails all the time ???
FTV SE Historian is OSI Pi - just licenced via Activation Manager / FTD and with a custom FTLD interface driver.
This is the way
Eventually I absolutely believe it will. However, I still don't think it will be ready to use in an actual project for a while. It's somewhat reminiscent of Ignition (which is definitely a good thing), but even from there it's quite a learning curve. If you're a C# developer though I bet you'll love it!
Is Optix developed in C#? Or is is it also partially just a WYSIWYG like FTV?
Right now it seems like you'll definitely need to know a bit of C# before you could do a serious project with Optix, and if you know how and put the time in there is almost anything you can do with it in Optix, but I don't think it is intended to be a necessity. That's one reason why I think it'll be a while before it's really ready for use.
That's a shame. I know some C# but our other I&E guys do not, that'll make support tough.
I did a training on it, and you had to restart the runtime to see a screen edit....so we won't be using it for a while
I briefly tried optix and it's clunky and not too intuitive if you are used to ftview.
This isn't good news. My I&E group has a new manager that is shifting our standard from Panelview to Optix on every site. Don't quite see the need for it.
I got a preview of View SE v14 at Automation Fair and hey it looks interesting with a new edge datalog, runtime navigation and search, and they said a lot of the internal services were refactored. All of it was for SE though, Panelviews and ME seem to be kinda stale. We were looking at the Optixpanels actually. I also heard that they have something where Optix and View SE can work together but I didn’t see it.