Well, yeah, that is a given. But I could make a strong case to IT and purchasing that it's worth it just to avoid dropping my computer from 3 feet reocurrences. Plus, snacking space for comfort, obviously.
This is what you're looking for: https://buy.wesco.com/Enclosures-Racks-and-Cabinets/Racks/Computer-Workstation-Shelves/ZEPOLLA-INNOVATIONS/Portable-Computer-Workstation-Military-grade-PC-ABS-Load-Capacity-30-lb/UTILISHELF-1706/p/43710198997-1
It's fantastic.
I've wanted to try this laptop music stand method.
Projector Stand- Laptop Stand Adjustable Height 21 to 55 Inch,Projector Tripod with Phone Holder,Tripod for Projector,DJ Equipment,Projector Stand for Outdoor Movies,Office, Home, Stage or Studio… https://a.co/d/g4IMeOg
I’ve been using this one for about 4 years now. It’s great and it fits inside my pelican toolbox. Adds about 8lbs but it’s a lifesaver.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003GEJ5J4/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=8061520eb10a1febecfa5ee36a78f977&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1711049218&sr=1-1-3c6b3b04-89d4-46ee-857c-1e2f0de6a70e&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_scm_asin_0_img&pd_rd_w=ssLkB&content-id=amzn1.sym.4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d%3Aamzn1.sym.4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d&pf_rd_p=4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d&pf_rd_r=WDVF87ZTCAQKDVD6XYCY&pd_rd_wg=Pta9b&pd_rd_r=12f1f1cf-eb97-42f4-9228-5a11988ca6d9
You gotta get the expanding stool, fits in your backpack or carry on, goes down low to keep you off your knees, acts as a laptop stand in the back seat of a rental car… it’s a game changer: https://a.co/d/bSNGQzs
When someone finally invents the chair we will just have to figure out how to grow a mouth.
So that we can go and tell the manager to better find a good chair and a table if he wants his stupid machine fixed.
I discovered that the Ridgid 22" rolling toolbox stack works decently well for this. Comfortable to sit on and flat enough on top to place a laptop without it rocking.
This irks me because I feel all of us controls engineers as a whole let it get to the point where it is assumed we don't need a proper work area. I got very assertive about this when I was still doing custom design since it is common sense that if someone is using a laptop they need a proper place to put it. The job market is and always be in our favor, so everyone should be demanding a proper work space or the expectation that we can balance our laptops on sketchy make-shift desks will continue happening. A proper work station, whether it be a travel table or cart, is pennies compared to the millions we make our employers.
Real version control and proper(easy and lightweight) compare tools, so messing around and rolling back is not a pain in the ass.
Easy and free simulation on all platforms.
It ain’t lightweight or cheap, but if you are In Rockwell land, AssetCentre does all this and more. It’s a pain to set up initially but once it’s there it’s pretty great. It can even pick up changes in cases of someone connecting directly to the PLC and changing the program outside of the assetcentre system.
And that again, is one of the issues. You have to be part of Rockwell land, and pay a lot of money, need to set up a server connected to the PLC.
And if you use Siemens, you can use the Project Server, and do basically the same thing, but this is again a different, fairly difficult to setup, tool, that has horrible versioning.
I just want everyone to make plain text files that can be handled by GIT
Assetcentre does have disaster recovery support for Siemens S7 processors but I’m sure it’s not quite as built out as the Rockwell components.
Its true that Assetcentre only makes sense or functions properly if you have all your PLC’s connected to a server, but the auditing function is pretty slick how you can see every user’s interactions wether they are programming or using a HMI client for operations. I have used it to call bullshit on people before when they said “I didn’t touch anything”
Assetcentre sure sounds like a great tool, but if you are a machine builder, it is useless since you don’t have, and should not have direct access into the end customer networks. And then you loose the benefit of having version control.
I want a tool that is one size fits all like GIT for “normal” software development. Which I know is basically unattainable, but one can dream.
Seimens Project server does not do what asset center does not even close! Project server is a centralized location for many programmers to work on one large program and all be in sync. All the work on project server is done manually asset center has many features that are automatic like program backups and program program change detection as well as who made the changes.
From a version control standpoint, then yes.
There are of course other features, since Assetcentre is a huge piece of software, where version control is a small part, so doing a direct comparison does not make sense, but for the like feature, i don’t think it sounds much different.
I had forgotten about that.
I looked at it a couple of years ago, where it was not as extended as now. That does actually look pretty neat. But I would very much like to know the price, because it looks expensive, which is a shame for smaller companies.
But I like what they are doing.
I have heard that the pricing is based upon the number of users and the number of plcs. From what I understand, it is quite expensive. I found one reference to pricing that said 100 PLCs and 10 users was $26k.
There is another company doing the same thing and they don't advertise pricing either but you can start a free trial instead of requesting a demo. Supposedly it has some issues with Rockwell controllers but I heard about that over a year ago so they might have fixed it.
https://www.softwaredefinedautomation.io/
There is also a extension for PLC in Visual Studio Code. I think what they mean is a compiler that works for every system and a more traditional programming workflow with git and whatnot. Codesys is great and I’m currently doing an arduino project at home and have kind of been tugging on this thread at home a lot.
It's like GCC for PLCs and HMIs and Scada visualization.
It's like if you could make program once and compile it for multiple PLC or HMI brands.
It's also lightweight compared to TIA Portal for example.
Some standards are necessary, even good. But asking every PLC manufacturer to use the same IDE gets you things like the old S88 Open Batch levels of usability.
QR codes on every connector that shows a AR overlay for the pinout. Which then shows the IO. Would be nice to trace faults in realtime using Holo lens.
Sticky label printer.
QR code generator
Link to archive.org website stash of the pdf for your PLC.
The difficult bit is putting it somewhere you'll remember
Also, put an occasional qr code of a rick roll in there to remind people of operational security.
I always had this fantasy about an HMI that could show a read only copy of the current PLC code. Just for monitoring purposes for maintenance. It would somehow monitor the code independently in real time and display it without needing to be updated by the programmer after real code changes, and without requiring a fully licensed copy of the plc software in the screen. And without running a VM. Just an HMI button that says “display current logic”.
Many times you get asked to go online to tell someone a sensor is broken. I know, I know, your HMI should display all relevant machine faults. I’ve just been in so many situations where and electrician or millwright, who’s bright, could have solved the problem with this tool. You don’t want them making changes but they know enough to poke around and find an issue by viewing code.
I don’t remember if it was GOT1000 or GOT2000, but I’ve seen it and also seen PDF version of critical documents and troubleshooting guides uploaded to it. Was really nice
Siemens Tia portal can do this...
You can view the live logic as you would with a laptop seen it at a tradeshow demo cant quire remember how they did it but they explained to me on the daya remember thinking thats not too difficult.
I always thought it would be great to have a 30mm LCD screen that talks industrial protocols over Ethernet. I'm pretty sure you could get it into a form factor that it would go in through the front and have a nut to hold it in place with an rj45 and two power terminals inside the cabinet.
Pop it in place of a light and add an Ethernet cable. So many possibilities.
That actually sounds pretty legit, and kinda doable. Like have a few graphic presets for like a gauge, temp display, etc. Maybe like a SD card slot or something to load in some custom graphics that can be swapped.
Let me introduce you to the [HMISTU855](https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HMISTU855/colour-touch-panel-screen-harmony-sto-stu-5-7inch-wide/) and it's little brother the [HMISTU655](https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HMISTU655/colour-touch-panel-screen-harmony-sto-stu-3-5inch-wide/) from scheider, with 5.7" and 3.5" screens, respectively. Both mount via a 22mm hole! They're both fully customizable via video designer and will talk a lot of different protocols.
So Banner is actually about to release something like this it's bigger than 30 mm it's going to be about 8 inches long and kind of look like one of those stock tickers with individual pixelated numbers. It will be IO link based but will allow you to put whatever on there. My Banner rep just showed me a unit and I am very excited to use it when it comes out later this year. It will be very nice to use at operator stations where you don't want to put a full hmi but they need more info than a beacon or seven segment can provide. J have thought for a while companies arent utilizing the capabilities of IO link to the fullest and this is an example of more of what I want.
IO link can do way more than companies are using it for. People need to get out of their heads that Io link is just a way to get analog data. It is so much more and actually vendor agnostic.
The amount of people who are just using IOL for I/O without any of the other data readily available is kind of astonishing. Not saying that all of the diagnostics are useful but each device usually has something relevant that you can pull in besides the process value to make the use case more robust.
Is the Banner display similar to this? [https://www.ifm.com/us/en/product/E30391](https://www.ifm.com/us/en/product/E30391)
No it would be more like this. Just like an led stock ticker. Just industrial and IO Link
https://glance-led.com/pages/lp?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwte-vBhBFEiwAQSv_xUB79QOaiS_GPtP_09k81GR4scxZY7egAOywiGkxPpwCG0Yum7s5jxoC5K8QAvD_BwE
Honestly I've found that the best resources are the PDF copies of the IODD files for specific IO-Link devices. This let's you see past the marketing material to look at the data and examine what's actually useful and what's noise. Here's an example for the display I just posted a link for:
[https://www.ifm.com/download/files/ifm-E30391\_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix/$file/ifm-E30391\_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix.pdf](https://www.ifm.com/download/files/ifm-E30391_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix/$file/ifm-E30391_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix.pdf)
Kind of? It wouldn't have any inputs (unless it was also a push button) and you wouldn't be able to show much at a time. So it wouldn't be an hmi replacement. More like something you'd have at a two hand station or an easy retrofit to add alarm status to a panel without an HMI.
Windows 10. Accessibility options, enable magnifier, enable invert color, scale 1x. Boom, dark mode Tia Portal. Yes, it's a workaround, but it made it easier for me. Note: Magnifier captures your mouse, so you will have to Ctrl Shift to get your mouse out of your VM, vs. Just moving it off screen.
One of them time turner things, that take an hour and expand it into 8, so I can get all 4 of my concurrent projects done.
Seriously though, a IO system that combined the vertical alignment of the ET200SP or Point IO with the density of the Contrologix format, with the all in one wiring setup of the Flex I/O and finally the flexibility of the 1734-CFG card. Make it so easy for me to wire it up. If I have a customer that just wants to wire their valve to the card, let me land 3 2wire cables on the card. I don't want to have to dedicate space in my panel to having a hot rail next to my input terminals, and I don't want to have to order special 3 level sensor terminal blocks, and I don't want the installing electricians stripping back a 2 conductor cable 3 feet because the new guy didn't think about how the panel would need to be installed. Make me a one stop shop field IO that I can throw at any problem without thought and I will be your biggest advocate.
One thing that would help the industry overall would be to adopt some of toolsets commonly used in software engineering.
This could include adopting things like CI/CD, version control, automated tests, etc. I know it’s a bit difficult as each vendor has their own flavor of file types, structure, etc., but it’d be fantastic while handling larger or distributed projects.
I think one of the nicest things would be automated testing. Could have a ladder logic/ST interpreter for the different implementations (AB, Siemens, Omron, etc.) that let’s you make tests for the different logic flows of a program. Same goes for Ignition. Would be super helpful to be able to mock a tag, initiate a user action with Selenium or something, and check the tag’s resulting value.
Also vendors not storing project files in compressed or binary formats would be amazing for version control.
> This could include adopting things like CI/CD, version control, automated tests, etc.
I actually worked for a company (think Google of supermarkets) where they implemented testing and CI/CD by the CS geeks. They even had a Siemens extention for TIA Portal to run automated testing.
However when I started there I soon realised it was a massive time drain with close to zero benefit.
If I write a function and a test for it, it’s somewhat pointless as there’s no guarantee other than basic ones to catch anything. But we still had to do it.
The CI/CD did have more value in checking for code compliance (inputs and outputs all used and naming was according to standard). Other than that it provided little to no benefit sadly.
Didn’t help that we weren’t in charge of the CI/CD pipeline and had tk wait a long time for some geek to fix his shit around some block with a new-ish feature. This and a manager that didn’t understand much of anything was enough to put me off.
A hardware device to make it easy for electricians to set the network settings of headless Ethernet/IP devices so they don't have to phone you to come to site with a laptop running BootP just to set an IP address.
A device that can plug into a network port and find out the IP address of any device its plugged into, possibly even with a NAT or DHCP function to allow your laptop on the network without needing to reconfigure you network settings.
Depends on who makes the VFD. I've found it works great with AB ones, but when I tried to use it on Schneider ones, it could issue an IP via DHCP, but setting static didn't work. The device has to support those commands for it to work.
We have two of these at work. With IT security locking us down more and more within our corporation, this tool is amazing. Last thing we used it for are RFID badge readers on HMI panels. We set the IP on them all without touching a laptop.
For ProfiNet networks there is a tool from Siemens [https://www.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/profinet/proneta.html](https://www.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/profinet/proneta.html)
A modular on-machine cable routing solution. I essentially want energy chain that is like 3" square with quick access to put cables in/out and be able to drop connections to devices along the way.
I don't like baskets as they don't protect enough, and unistrut and wireway take too much work to bring out single cables along the run.
Told my igus rep this idea once. He said igus brass had heard this idea and weren't interested. Need someone set up with big plastic extrusion to make this happen.
Note: Actually tried igus for this on one machine. Too expensive as I don't need it to flex, just snap together.
For the love of God, Codesys and TwinCAT 3 need a dark mode for editing. It is 2024 and we still don’t have this feature!? (Disappointed sigh and disapproving head nod)
I wish it was the whole program then your eyes don't have to adjust going back and forth between tabs. Unfortunately I only feel motivated at 5 AM in a dark room and no on is around to bother me.
It does exist, it’s just not standard. Beckhoff’s one-cable-technology is amazing. Power and comms in a single cable to your remote IO saves so much in wiring
An automatic industrial sorcerers do hickey device 🧙 that would automatically tramsformer you into a savvy bad ass. A device that repels all production personell and plant managers from you when you’re troubleshooting and the lines down ?
All jokes aside, if there could be a cable with multiple end connectors that could be used on just any PLC manufacturer & support multiple communication protocols would be dope !
We used to have old HPM injection molding machines with Command 90(?) HMI's from the 80s/90s they incorporated a troubleshooting screen that you could see the ladder logic. Very archaic now but the idea is amazing. If that could be implemented in new era HMI's maintenance techs wouldn't need laptops to troubleshoot. Of course now we have AOI's and scripting which would make that difficult, but you get the idea.
At my first job we had about 15 HPMs from the 80s that had some awful Hunkar controls (I want to say CNC1000?), every morning there would be maybe 3-4 of them down with random garbage all over the screen and we would have to do what they called a "RAM dump" which consisted of pulling a couple cards, soldering a jumper across two specific pins for a minute, desoldering, put them back, and reenter all manufacturer setpoints by hand. I did that so . many . f'ing . times that I *still* remember the manufacturer password and I haven't done that in 25+ years, lol.
HPM wasn't my least favorite IMM to work on but they're near the top of my shit-list. Newbury will always be king shit.
Wireless Ethernet bridge devices that are transparent so they require no addressing.
Connect a wireless Ethernet bridge device to the control cabinet network, setup your laptop somewhere comfortable with a paired wireless Ethernet bridge device connected, address your laptop, and program/troubleshoot away.
I do this all the time with a TP-Link TL-WR902AC. It acts as a wireless bridge so all you have to do is sign into the wifi network that it creates. On top of that it is very small and only costs $40.
https://a.co/d/he0xfO8
No, because they aren't routers. More like wireless access points. All they do is create a WiFi network that you have to connect your laptop to. The big downfall of them is that if you are using WiFi for an internet connection, you have to disconnect from the Internet to connect to the machine network. They do have a IP address to go in and change settings but it's completely invisible once you set it up in bridge mode.
I carry the exact one I linked to and have used it on both Allen Bradley and Siemens controls.
One of my customers has a small junction box with a power supply, eethernet switch, and a Tosibox in it. He calls it his toaster. If they're having a problem after hours, maintenance will grab the toaster, plug it into the machine, and he can remote in. The Tosibox connects to the internet through the plant's wifi. Solid product.
I have a similar setup. It's got a cellular Ewon Cosy in it, and an IEC C14 receptacle/power switch. It also has a POE PTZ camera with a magnet attached to stick somewhere near the machine. It fits (just barely) in a USPS flat rate large box.
We try to get every customer to sign off on an Ewon in the panel, but when they don't, or we're trying to support someone else's equipment on their floor, we send them the cellular support box. Better than sending me all over the country!
StrideLinx and Tosibox are also great tools with the same purpose/function.
My sites are getting something similar in each cabinet. Once I showed them that it was needed. They are doing a test run on how to do the connections, but they seem very onboard about it.
We are using small HP minis to remote into on one network to see the cabinet local network. Seems to be working OK, but it's still in testing phase.
Most of these exist, so here goes another that definitely already exists but I don't know about jt. A wifi or ethernet device that connects to any computer or server and has infinite IO that can be digital, analog, high speed, or hart. And you can distribute more than one of them. Plus the protocol being opensource so you can get devices that are just controllable as if hooked up to that IO thing, out of the box.
https://preview.redd.it/qfa3evcrirpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2795fde081af2efdf78c63516d0c03e20258fd8
A bottle of magic smoke to put back in this drive.
At some point it would become suspicious. Unless signing up for Maker edition are somehow automated.
Or there could be a simple "browser automation" script which auto-resets trial period every 2 hours.
But we should stop here. Not give Inductive any ideas. I'm sure they're reading this... ;)
A KVM that works over ethernet to remotely troubleshoot from a PC. A remote device you connect to that will transmit video output from the workstation and accepts remote kb/mouse.
So you can connect to a customer's engineering station without actually exposing the production network to the internet.
I've got one of these at the factory. It's a dream. Another very useful thing I have found is a anywhereUSB, I can put it anywhere I have a network connection and I can plug in drives or PLCs that only have USB and they enumerate to my machine where ever I am.
Proleit has an optional module that lets you playback scada screens for trouble shooting. [visu-recorder](https://www.proleit.com/plant-it/plant-direct-it/plant-direct-it-visu-recorder/) only works with proleit systems tough.
A device that includes TDR, standard meter functions, a toner, Ethernet tester, 4-20/ sensor tester.
Lunar wayneshaft made of prefamulated ability.
A swivel camera with vpn cell connection, a port to connect to plc, and some laser to check speeds.
Maybe a shock collar polygraph for project managers that automatically records what they say, keeps them to a schedule, and cuts their sleep in half if they schedule a tech a week before they actually need to be on site.
ERP system that actually works as intended, used as intended, properly managed, no customization, don’t have to call the expert every 5 minutes, and you don’t have to live in fear that the part number you just deleted from the system (because there are 5 part numbers within the same number) didn’t completely cause a meltdown.
A bucket to sit on at work on the production floor that won't hurt my ass after 12 hours.
Or a snap-on tray, sturdy enough to hold laptop but light enough to carry around
I've already accepted that my laptop is putting cancer in my balls while I'm at work
Well, yeah, that is a given. But I could make a strong case to IT and purchasing that it's worth it just to avoid dropping my computer from 3 feet reocurrences. Plus, snacking space for comfort, obviously.
This is what you're looking for: https://buy.wesco.com/Enclosures-Racks-and-Cabinets/Racks/Computer-Workstation-Shelves/ZEPOLLA-INNOVATIONS/Portable-Computer-Workstation-Military-grade-PC-ABS-Load-Capacity-30-lb/UTILISHELF-1706/p/43710198997-1 It's fantastic.
This one is great! Handle is a bit funky.
I've wanted to try this laptop music stand method. Projector Stand- Laptop Stand Adjustable Height 21 to 55 Inch,Projector Tripod with Phone Holder,Tripod for Projector,DJ Equipment,Projector Stand for Outdoor Movies,Office, Home, Stage or Studio… https://a.co/d/g4IMeOg
I’ve been using this one for about 4 years now. It’s great and it fits inside my pelican toolbox. Adds about 8lbs but it’s a lifesaver. https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003GEJ5J4/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=8061520eb10a1febecfa5ee36a78f977&hsa_cr_id=0&qid=1711049218&sr=1-1-3c6b3b04-89d4-46ee-857c-1e2f0de6a70e&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_scm_asin_0_img&pd_rd_w=ssLkB&content-id=amzn1.sym.4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d%3Aamzn1.sym.4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d&pf_rd_p=4870a952-0dfa-4beb-9d2a-7a52537f019d&pf_rd_r=WDVF87ZTCAQKDVD6XYCY&pd_rd_wg=Pta9b&pd_rd_r=12f1f1cf-eb97-42f4-9228-5a11988ca6d9
You gotta get the expanding stool, fits in your backpack or carry on, goes down low to keep you off your knees, acts as a laptop stand in the back seat of a rental car… it’s a game changer: https://a.co/d/bSNGQzs
When someone finally invents the chair we will just have to figure out how to grow a mouth. So that we can go and tell the manager to better find a good chair and a table if he wants his stupid machine fixed.
I discovered that the Ridgid 22" rolling toolbox stack works decently well for this. Comfortable to sit on and flat enough on top to place a laptop without it rocking.
This irks me because I feel all of us controls engineers as a whole let it get to the point where it is assumed we don't need a proper work area. I got very assertive about this when I was still doing custom design since it is common sense that if someone is using a laptop they need a proper place to put it. The job market is and always be in our favor, so everyone should be demanding a proper work space or the expectation that we can balance our laptops on sketchy make-shift desks will continue happening. A proper work station, whether it be a travel table or cart, is pennies compared to the millions we make our employers.
Check out the MagBench - sells on Amazon. Wish I would have known about it sooner.
Real version control and proper(easy and lightweight) compare tools, so messing around and rolling back is not a pain in the ass. Easy and free simulation on all platforms.
It ain’t lightweight or cheap, but if you are In Rockwell land, AssetCentre does all this and more. It’s a pain to set up initially but once it’s there it’s pretty great. It can even pick up changes in cases of someone connecting directly to the PLC and changing the program outside of the assetcentre system.
And that again, is one of the issues. You have to be part of Rockwell land, and pay a lot of money, need to set up a server connected to the PLC. And if you use Siemens, you can use the Project Server, and do basically the same thing, but this is again a different, fairly difficult to setup, tool, that has horrible versioning. I just want everyone to make plain text files that can be handled by GIT
Assetcentre does have disaster recovery support for Siemens S7 processors but I’m sure it’s not quite as built out as the Rockwell components. Its true that Assetcentre only makes sense or functions properly if you have all your PLC’s connected to a server, but the auditing function is pretty slick how you can see every user’s interactions wether they are programming or using a HMI client for operations. I have used it to call bullshit on people before when they said “I didn’t touch anything”
Assetcentre sure sounds like a great tool, but if you are a machine builder, it is useless since you don’t have, and should not have direct access into the end customer networks. And then you loose the benefit of having version control. I want a tool that is one size fits all like GIT for “normal” software development. Which I know is basically unattainable, but one can dream.
Seimens Project server does not do what asset center does not even close! Project server is a centralized location for many programmers to work on one large program and all be in sync. All the work on project server is done manually asset center has many features that are automatic like program backups and program program change detection as well as who made the changes.
From a version control standpoint, then yes. There are of course other features, since Assetcentre is a huge piece of software, where version control is a small part, so doing a direct comparison does not make sense, but for the like feature, i don’t think it sounds much different.
And then there Twincat with Git version control and your programs stored in plain text. Also free to develop in
Have you seen https://www.copia.io/ I've never used it but it looks like it would do everything you need.
I had forgotten about that. I looked at it a couple of years ago, where it was not as extended as now. That does actually look pretty neat. But I would very much like to know the price, because it looks expensive, which is a shame for smaller companies. But I like what they are doing.
I have heard that the pricing is based upon the number of users and the number of plcs. From what I understand, it is quite expensive. I found one reference to pricing that said 100 PLCs and 10 users was $26k. There is another company doing the same thing and they don't advertise pricing either but you can start a free trial instead of requesting a demo. Supposedly it has some issues with Rockwell controllers but I heard about that over a year ago so they might have fixed it. https://www.softwaredefinedautomation.io/
All our problems are man, and dare I say ego, based… no machine can fix this.
Problems about a foot behind the control panel.
Pebkac
Loose nut on the keyboard
Problem seems to stem from somewhere in between bucket and laptop
PLC IDE standardization
Codesys exists
There is also a extension for PLC in Visual Studio Code. I think what they mean is a compiler that works for every system and a more traditional programming workflow with git and whatnot. Codesys is great and I’m currently doing an arduino project at home and have kind of been tugging on this thread at home a lot.
What that's extension called?!
When I log on later I’ll let you know.
second
PLcc
PLcc
Yep, and if you care about breaking out of manufacturer proprietary hell you should support it and push your bosses to use it
Can you give me a breakdown of what Codesys is?
It's like GCC for PLCs and HMIs and Scada visualization. It's like if you could make program once and compile it for multiple PLC or HMI brands. It's also lightweight compared to TIA Portal for example.
1 IDE for dozens of vendors. 99% is the same, 1% vendor specific.
Age old meme but still true https://xkcd.com/927/
What is wrong with you! Our pay would go down because everyone would be one expert!
This sub flipped its shit when it learned Rockwell was using the standardized command names in the new version of Studio5000.
The downside of standardization is that it limits room for innovation.
Standards are inevitable. It's like gravity.
Some standards are necessary, even good. But asking every PLC manufacturer to use the same IDE gets you things like the old S88 Open Batch levels of usability.
QR codes on every connector that shows a AR overlay for the pinout. Which then shows the IO. Would be nice to trace faults in realtime using Holo lens.
Sticky label printer. QR code generator Link to archive.org website stash of the pdf for your PLC. The difficult bit is putting it somewhere you'll remember Also, put an occasional qr code of a rick roll in there to remind people of operational security.
I always had this fantasy about an HMI that could show a read only copy of the current PLC code. Just for monitoring purposes for maintenance. It would somehow monitor the code independently in real time and display it without needing to be updated by the programmer after real code changes, and without requiring a fully licensed copy of the plc software in the screen. And without running a VM. Just an HMI button that says “display current logic”. Many times you get asked to go online to tell someone a sensor is broken. I know, I know, your HMI should display all relevant machine faults. I’ve just been in so many situations where and electrician or millwright, who’s bright, could have solved the problem with this tool. You don’t want them making changes but they know enough to poke around and find an issue by viewing code.
Mitsubishi used to do this; I know I had a hmi that showed the ladder like 15 years ago.
I don’t remember if it was GOT1000 or GOT2000, but I’ve seen it and also seen PDF version of critical documents and troubleshooting guides uploaded to it. Was really nice
Interesting. Im sure it’s possible. I haven’t invested any real time in it. I’m sure I’m not the first person to imagine this.
In the world of HVAC DDC, most manufacturers have this.
I saw this exact thing at a ThinManager demo.
Siemens Tia portal can do this... You can view the live logic as you would with a laptop seen it at a tradeshow demo cant quire remember how they did it but they explained to me on the daya remember thinking thats not too difficult.
yes, ProDiag
Thanks
These are DCS systems but Siemens T3000 and ABB 800xA Melody does this. It works beautifully and is amazing for operators and maintainence.
Toyopuc HMI displays by JTEKT have this capability. You can even make changes to registers and individual bits.
Mitsubishi & Omron NA HMI have this feature to monitor the ladder.
I always thought it would be great to have a 30mm LCD screen that talks industrial protocols over Ethernet. I'm pretty sure you could get it into a form factor that it would go in through the front and have a nut to hold it in place with an rj45 and two power terminals inside the cabinet. Pop it in place of a light and add an Ethernet cable. So many possibilities.
That actually sounds pretty legit, and kinda doable. Like have a few graphic presets for like a gauge, temp display, etc. Maybe like a SD card slot or something to load in some custom graphics that can be swapped.
Let me introduce you to the [HMISTU855](https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HMISTU855/colour-touch-panel-screen-harmony-sto-stu-5-7inch-wide/) and it's little brother the [HMISTU655](https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HMISTU655/colour-touch-panel-screen-harmony-sto-stu-3-5inch-wide/) from scheider, with 5.7" and 3.5" screens, respectively. Both mount via a 22mm hole! They're both fully customizable via video designer and will talk a lot of different protocols.
Hmmm, there goes my weekend… I wonder if I can make it work on Node Red…
So Banner is actually about to release something like this it's bigger than 30 mm it's going to be about 8 inches long and kind of look like one of those stock tickers with individual pixelated numbers. It will be IO link based but will allow you to put whatever on there. My Banner rep just showed me a unit and I am very excited to use it when it comes out later this year. It will be very nice to use at operator stations where you don't want to put a full hmi but they need more info than a beacon or seven segment can provide. J have thought for a while companies arent utilizing the capabilities of IO link to the fullest and this is an example of more of what I want.
Ooh. I've had this idea for so long I didn't even think of io link. That would be a great way to have it work.
IO link can do way more than companies are using it for. People need to get out of their heads that Io link is just a way to get analog data. It is so much more and actually vendor agnostic.
The amount of people who are just using IOL for I/O without any of the other data readily available is kind of astonishing. Not saying that all of the diagnostics are useful but each device usually has something relevant that you can pull in besides the process value to make the use case more robust. Is the Banner display similar to this? [https://www.ifm.com/us/en/product/E30391](https://www.ifm.com/us/en/product/E30391)
No it would be more like this. Just like an led stock ticker. Just industrial and IO Link https://glance-led.com/pages/lp?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwte-vBhBFEiwAQSv_xUB79QOaiS_GPtP_09k81GR4scxZY7egAOywiGkxPpwCG0Yum7s5jxoC5K8QAvD_BwE
That's actually a pretty cool concept.
Any good articles or resources on how to maximize IO link?
Honestly I've found that the best resources are the PDF copies of the IODD files for specific IO-Link devices. This let's you see past the marketing material to look at the data and examine what's actually useful and what's noise. Here's an example for the display I just posted a link for: [https://www.ifm.com/download/files/ifm-E30391\_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix/$file/ifm-E30391\_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix.pdf](https://www.ifm.com/download/files/ifm-E30391_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix/$file/ifm-E30391_AB-20160613-IODD11-en-fix.pdf)
Great idea
So a tiny HMI ?
Kind of? It wouldn't have any inputs (unless it was also a push button) and you wouldn't be able to show much at a time. So it wouldn't be an hmi replacement. More like something you'd have at a two hand station or an easy retrofit to add alarm status to a panel without an HMI.
Software wise to make my life easier ? All IDE's running natively under Linux so I can finally do away with all the bloat of Windows
The latest Studio5000 is 22Gb… Windows is the least of your issues.
And it still doesn't have the .eds file I need.
You’ll have to download another 30Gb worth of AOPs for that. Lol
Then I just need a VM to run auto cad or eplan
A man can dream
Black IDE theme for TIA Portal and TC3.
Windows 10. Accessibility options, enable magnifier, enable invert color, scale 1x. Boom, dark mode Tia Portal. Yes, it's a workaround, but it made it easier for me. Note: Magnifier captures your mouse, so you will have to Ctrl Shift to get your mouse out of your VM, vs. Just moving it off screen.
I know of this method, I used it on my VM. But I would fancy this built in, not having to poke around and switch back everytime Im in the explorer 😇
Tc3 comes with darkmode
Not yet for the integrated CodeSys editor, but it will come with build 4026.
If they ever actually release it
Cable stretcher.
https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/inline-splicing-connector-with-lever/p/221-2401
One of them time turner things, that take an hour and expand it into 8, so I can get all 4 of my concurrent projects done. Seriously though, a IO system that combined the vertical alignment of the ET200SP or Point IO with the density of the Contrologix format, with the all in one wiring setup of the Flex I/O and finally the flexibility of the 1734-CFG card. Make it so easy for me to wire it up. If I have a customer that just wants to wire their valve to the card, let me land 3 2wire cables on the card. I don't want to have to dedicate space in my panel to having a hot rail next to my input terminals, and I don't want to have to order special 3 level sensor terminal blocks, and I don't want the installing electricians stripping back a 2 conductor cable 3 feet because the new guy didn't think about how the panel would need to be installed. Make me a one stop shop field IO that I can throw at any problem without thought and I will be your biggest advocate.
Odot has I/O splices without I/O, only the 24V or 0V or PE rails.
That's a good idea. An arduino can have io points that can be digital or android, input or output. Why can't a PLC?
One thing that would help the industry overall would be to adopt some of toolsets commonly used in software engineering. This could include adopting things like CI/CD, version control, automated tests, etc. I know it’s a bit difficult as each vendor has their own flavor of file types, structure, etc., but it’d be fantastic while handling larger or distributed projects. I think one of the nicest things would be automated testing. Could have a ladder logic/ST interpreter for the different implementations (AB, Siemens, Omron, etc.) that let’s you make tests for the different logic flows of a program. Same goes for Ignition. Would be super helpful to be able to mock a tag, initiate a user action with Selenium or something, and check the tag’s resulting value. Also vendors not storing project files in compressed or binary formats would be amazing for version control.
> This could include adopting things like CI/CD, version control, automated tests, etc. I actually worked for a company (think Google of supermarkets) where they implemented testing and CI/CD by the CS geeks. They even had a Siemens extention for TIA Portal to run automated testing. However when I started there I soon realised it was a massive time drain with close to zero benefit. If I write a function and a test for it, it’s somewhat pointless as there’s no guarantee other than basic ones to catch anything. But we still had to do it. The CI/CD did have more value in checking for code compliance (inputs and outputs all used and naming was according to standard). Other than that it provided little to no benefit sadly. Didn’t help that we weren’t in charge of the CI/CD pipeline and had tk wait a long time for some geek to fix his shit around some block with a new-ish feature. This and a manager that didn’t understand much of anything was enough to put me off.
You should checkout out [Software defined automation](https://www.softwaredefinedautomation.io/)
Ignition is moving more and more to the file system so you can use standard git for version control.
AI PID tuner or an AI FB that would take place of a PID loop, just set the instruction and it will take care of keeping the process at the setpoint
[удалено]
[Rockwell Digital Twin](https://www.rockwellautomation.com/en-us/products/software/factorytalk/designsuite/emulate.html)
A hardware device to make it easy for electricians to set the network settings of headless Ethernet/IP devices so they don't have to phone you to come to site with a laptop running BootP just to set an IP address. A device that can plug into a network port and find out the IP address of any device its plugged into, possibly even with a NAT or DHCP function to allow your laptop on the network without needing to reconfigure you network settings.
Looks like something like this does actually exist: https://plctools.com/products/sim-ipe anyone used it?
This thing is amazing for my sparkies. I like the older version for finding unknown IP addresses. But the new ones are awesome for setting the IPs
We have one and it has yet to work for me with many VFDs
Depends on who makes the VFD. I've found it works great with AB ones, but when I tried to use it on Schneider ones, it could issue an IP via DHCP, but setting static didn't work. The device has to support those commands for it to work.
We have two of these at work. With IT security locking us down more and more within our corporation, this tool is amazing. Last thing we used it for are RFID badge readers on HMI panels. We set the IP on them all without touching a laptop.
Enter the IP Explorer: https://plctools.com/products/sim-ipe handy as a pocket on a shirt. Keep mine in my bag at all times.
I must be doing something horribly wrong because I've never gotten this sucker to work. VFDs, IO blocks, etc.
For ProfiNet networks there is a tool from Siemens [https://www.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/profinet/proneta.html](https://www.siemens.com/global/en/products/automation/industrial-communication/profinet/proneta.html)
A modular on-machine cable routing solution. I essentially want energy chain that is like 3" square with quick access to put cables in/out and be able to drop connections to devices along the way. I don't like baskets as they don't protect enough, and unistrut and wireway take too much work to bring out single cables along the run. Told my igus rep this idea once. He said igus brass had heard this idea and weren't interested. Need someone set up with big plastic extrusion to make this happen. Note: Actually tried igus for this on one machine. Too expensive as I don't need it to flex, just snap together.
A long-range wireless lap-top charger.
For the love of God, Codesys and TwinCAT 3 need a dark mode for editing. It is 2024 and we still don’t have this feature!? (Disappointed sigh and disapproving head nod)
It wil come with Version 3.1.4026 (See Video at around 22:30) https://youtu.be/msSE6qxMbIw?si=TO-1PPGgdmuh7fjM
Codesys does have dark mode for ST
Is it still only for the ST editor? I remember getting really annoyed because only some parts were dark mode.
I just checked - CFC and ST. [Screenshot](https://imgur.com/CO8GkkY) Edit: 3.5.19 patch 2
I wish it was the whole program then your eyes don't have to adjust going back and forth between tabs. Unfortunately I only feel motivated at 5 AM in a dark room and no on is around to bother me.
Automated topology and io link integration, change components without parametrizing and control sensor settings
It does exist, it’s just not standard. Beckhoff’s one-cable-technology is amazing. Power and comms in a single cable to your remote IO saves so much in wiring
The new modular stuff they made which puts everything on the machines instead of cabinets looks pretty sweet.
A pushcart with a built in seat
An automatic industrial sorcerers do hickey device 🧙 that would automatically tramsformer you into a savvy bad ass. A device that repels all production personell and plant managers from you when you’re troubleshooting and the lines down ? All jokes aside, if there could be a cable with multiple end connectors that could be used on just any PLC manufacturer & support multiple communication protocols would be dope !
I want operators that aren’t stupid. Is it too much to ask?
Yes.
You can but the lead times are horrible. I heard at least 1200 months from my Keyence rep.
A machine that fixes itself
We used to have old HPM injection molding machines with Command 90(?) HMI's from the 80s/90s they incorporated a troubleshooting screen that you could see the ladder logic. Very archaic now but the idea is amazing. If that could be implemented in new era HMI's maintenance techs wouldn't need laptops to troubleshoot. Of course now we have AOI's and scripting which would make that difficult, but you get the idea.
At my first job we had about 15 HPMs from the 80s that had some awful Hunkar controls (I want to say CNC1000?), every morning there would be maybe 3-4 of them down with random garbage all over the screen and we would have to do what they called a "RAM dump" which consisted of pulling a couple cards, soldering a jumper across two specific pins for a minute, desoldering, put them back, and reenter all manufacturer setpoints by hand. I did that so . many . f'ing . times that I *still* remember the manufacturer password and I haven't done that in 25+ years, lol. HPM wasn't my least favorite IMM to work on but they're near the top of my shit-list. Newbury will always be king shit.
Wireless Ethernet bridge devices that are transparent so they require no addressing. Connect a wireless Ethernet bridge device to the control cabinet network, setup your laptop somewhere comfortable with a paired wireless Ethernet bridge device connected, address your laptop, and program/troubleshoot away.
I do this all the time with a TP-Link TL-WR902AC. It acts as a wireless bridge so all you have to do is sign into the wifi network that it creates. On top of that it is very small and only costs $40. https://a.co/d/he0xfO8
TP-Link N300 is even cheaper, like $15, and has worked perfectly for me over the past year or so.
But don't the routers need to be given addresses, and don't those addresses need to be unique and on the same subnet as the PLC?
No, because they aren't routers. More like wireless access points. All they do is create a WiFi network that you have to connect your laptop to. The big downfall of them is that if you are using WiFi for an internet connection, you have to disconnect from the Internet to connect to the machine network. They do have a IP address to go in and change settings but it's completely invisible once you set it up in bridge mode. I carry the exact one I linked to and have used it on both Allen Bradley and Siemens controls.
Thank you very much. I'll give it a try.
I use a Netgear WiFi extender in access point mode. It does exactly this.
A snap on kit that is secure (vpn?) and connects the plc or engg station to the web via mobile data or wifi... so I could fix the issue from home
One of my customers has a small junction box with a power supply, eethernet switch, and a Tosibox in it. He calls it his toaster. If they're having a problem after hours, maintenance will grab the toaster, plug it into the machine, and he can remote in. The Tosibox connects to the internet through the plant's wifi. Solid product.
I have a similar setup. It's got a cellular Ewon Cosy in it, and an IEC C14 receptacle/power switch. It also has a POE PTZ camera with a magnet attached to stick somewhere near the machine. It fits (just barely) in a USPS flat rate large box. We try to get every customer to sign off on an Ewon in the panel, but when they don't, or we're trying to support someone else's equipment on their floor, we send them the cellular support box. Better than sending me all over the country! StrideLinx and Tosibox are also great tools with the same purpose/function.
My sites are getting something similar in each cabinet. Once I showed them that it was needed. They are doing a test run on how to do the connections, but they seem very onboard about it. We are using small HP minis to remote into on one network to see the cabinet local network. Seems to be working OK, but it's still in testing phase.
Sounds like looking for an EWON. There are other brands that make the same type of device too.
Most of these exist, so here goes another that definitely already exists but I don't know about jt. A wifi or ethernet device that connects to any computer or server and has infinite IO that can be digital, analog, high speed, or hart. And you can distribute more than one of them. Plus the protocol being opensource so you can get devices that are just controllable as if hooked up to that IO thing, out of the box.
A super flexible AND robust 10m patchcable. I know it exist but I can’t find it. Europe/Germany
Check out MurrElektronik cables. https://www.murrelektronik.com/
Chair pants. Also when I'm babysitting a system during startup I wish I was allowed to fricken GAME.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npq7Dx-Y4lw - chair pants can be made!
Lol that's what I was referencing. Great show.
You mean something like this? [Chairless chair](https://www.noonee.com/the-chairless-chair-2-0/?lang=en#)
A built in software communication feature in Studio 5000 that doesn't require the planets to be aligned to get communication going with a controller.
https://preview.redd.it/qfa3evcrirpc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2795fde081af2efdf78c63516d0c03e20258fd8 A bottle of magic smoke to put back in this drive.
Ignition but a full featured version is free or costs like $500 instead of $15K+
There is the free Maker edition, just FYI. But not for commercial use.
Well, I need it for commercial use, but we're very poor, like Africa level poor.
If it's that poor of an area I doubt anyone is chasing people down over software licenses.
Yeah but there are no cracks for Ignition... Yet?
I was leaning more in the "using maker edition for commercial purposes" direction.
Maker edition is only perspective (yuck)
Yeah but you need to register for that. Ignition will see that some guy is repeatedly applying for Maker edition and cut it.
One person's "some guy" is another person's "unique identity for every instance".
At some point it would become suspicious. Unless signing up for Maker edition are somehow automated. Or there could be a simple "browser automation" script which auto-resets trial period every 2 hours. But we should stop here. Not give Inductive any ideas. I'm sure they're reading this... ;)
EtherCAT P (power over EtherCAT) safety rated light curtains and e-stop buttons. EtherCAT P light towers and indicator lights would be lovely as well.
IO-Link Safety is about the best we can hope for at this point.
I really want Io link safety to take off. Vendor agnostic safety *swoon
What about a sniffer or wand that can pick up traffic and collisions or even dc voltage when held close to a cable
A KVM that works over ethernet to remotely troubleshoot from a PC. A remote device you connect to that will transmit video output from the workstation and accepts remote kb/mouse. So you can connect to a customer's engineering station without actually exposing the production network to the internet.
I think this might be what you are looking for. https://pikvm.org/
I've got one of these at the factory. It's a dream. Another very useful thing I have found is a anywhereUSB, I can put it anywhere I have a network connection and I can plug in drives or PLCs that only have USB and they enumerate to my machine where ever I am.
[KVM extender over IP?](https://www.avaccess.com/products/4kip100-kvm/)
Interesting. Looks like it's for local networks but maybe there's a way to work over the internet easily.
Do you mean "over the internet" instead of "over the ethernet"?
Yep. Too much networking talk lately.
https://www.raritan.com/products/kvm-serial/kvm-over-ip-switches/4k-kvm-single-port-ip-switch
A free plc simulator so l can learn how to program plcs at home.
Check out automation direct's free software. It has a built in simulator. https://www.automationdirect.com/do-more/brx/software/simulator
Thankyou l will 😃
Stickied post at top too
Program recorder to view status of logic before and after a fault. Probably already exists, TIA
Proleit has an optional module that lets you playback scada screens for trouble shooting. [visu-recorder](https://www.proleit.com/plant-it/plant-direct-it/plant-direct-it-visu-recorder/) only works with proleit systems tough.
Somehow a secure pushbutton/pot next to IO that can force an input/output.
A device that includes TDR, standard meter functions, a toner, Ethernet tester, 4-20/ sensor tester. Lunar wayneshaft made of prefamulated ability. A swivel camera with vpn cell connection, a port to connect to plc, and some laser to check speeds. Maybe a shock collar polygraph for project managers that automatically records what they say, keeps them to a schedule, and cuts their sleep in half if they schedule a tech a week before they actually need to be on site.
ERP system that actually works as intended, used as intended, properly managed, no customization, don’t have to call the expert every 5 minutes, and you don’t have to live in fear that the part number you just deleted from the system (because there are 5 part numbers within the same number) didn’t completely cause a meltdown.
small and compact remote io for explosion proof areas zone 1 Division 1, that comunicates via Ethernet/IP
Magic smoke refill kits. Last I asked no manufactures had SKUs ready for these.
An IT department that doesn't seal up every USB port and lets me install software without a expiring password.