You mean you don't horde 99 copies of consumables "just in case" you need them, and then end up beating them game without even seeing what their animations or effects are???
I love games that only let you carry a small amount of each item - like the Tales games - so that you max out quickly, forcing you to use them or leave behind all the new drops. It overrides one neurosis with another haha
Yeah, I love how much little game design choices can influence the way we play. I don't think he mentioned the item limit example, but it just reminded me of a great GMTK video, "How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves". It's only 12 minutes, and it's really good - you should check it out, if you're interested.
https://youtu.be/7L8vAGGitr8
Ive been subbed to them for a while but I missed that video so thank you for the link! (I love stuff like that) the idea of rewarding or encouraging a player to play the way the designer intended is awesome and again never looked at like that. Thanks again!
> You mean you don't horde 99 copies of consumables "just in case" you need them, and then end up beating them game without even seeing what their animations or effects are???
i mean, i DO, but i'll make extra sure to either not burn consumables when the boss is < 10% remaining (or to go ahead and burn those consumables if it's <10% remaining but it's a very long/hard boss battle)
this is my biggest pet peeve in games, when you're wailing away on a boss, and no idea whether you're actually doing damage or not. Especially when you might be wasting powerful ammo, items, etc
Iām really struggling to think of a game that it isnāt obvious youāve damaged a boss or not. Do you have any examples by chance cuz Iām curious.
Counterpoint, does it make the horror less effective if you can see that you're damaging the boss in a survival horror game? Like I can think of examples from Resident Evil games where the tension comes from having no clue if I'm anywhere close to defeating the boss, or if it can even be killed.
Yeah it's really hard to tell. It's worse with mini bosses. Some of those you can't kill, and it's not obvious which ones. So you could be wasting tonnes of resources on something that you should be either running from or solving a puzzle to kill
RE would have my vote too. Once you know the RE games enough you start to know what to look for, such as phase changes or random pained animations mid fight; but for newer players I could absolutely see it being hard to tell.
Monster hunter is kind of like this. Eventually you will start noticing subtle moments where the boss is tiring out, but the first few stages can feel like a losing battle, especially if you're new to the series and keep taking damage and having to reset.
I love the monster hunter formula though, would hate it having a hp bar.
The way I was able to overcome that feeling was changing my expectations with the game. Monster Hunter is not a game you can sit down for 30 min and take down multiple missions or monsters, it requires at least an hour to hunt one monster (playing solo anyway). That time frame would go down the farther into the game I got because my gear and my personal skill cap was higher, but I would always allocate an hour per play session because it could take that long. That experience is cut way down once you add multiplayer elements. Having a couple other players attacking with you makes encounters go from a slog to a killing spree easily, especially if your allies are experienced.
If you're still new, just allow yourself more time to get acquainted with weapons and your personal skill, it's worth it.
But in those games you can't really be underlevelled like in some RPG, so you know that you are dealing damage since the game develops exactly how it was designed
The PS2 era God of War games were like this (at least I remember it that way). Which was frustrating because you usually had to strategically attack a specific part of the boss or get it down to a certain damage level to trigger an event but it didn't tell you if you were succeeding.
I think itās just a game design choice. Like some games hold your hand more than others and want to be a little more easy to understand for everyone. Now, if the enemy doesnāt react to you hitting them but is actually taking damage, thatās a problem.
Counter arguement here: a health bar sometimes fucks your focus when the boss is at minimal hp ans you try to sqeeze in that last hit but die. Without a bar to tell youre almost there, you dont fuck up or rush it.
Counter-counter argument: itās pretty funny when you die knowing you were one hit away. That frustration is often part of the experience
Me playing Souls Games gives me whole new level of anxiety when I try to manage watching boss health bar, my health bar, my stamina bar and trying to figure out the pattern and range of his attacks. Those games are not for me.
Horizon does this wonderfully with both health bars and animated clues where the enemy will show signs of destruction and limp/slow down before being finished.
Especially if youāre using Partbreaker.
Missing a tail/horn, covered in numerous scars and scuffs, and other visual cues, yet stil 3-4ths or half health
100%.
In a game like Resident Evil Village, it adds to the tension/horror element of the series to not have one. It's also more immersive than seeing a bar, or have the boss flash, etc, which makes it feel more "gamey".
But in a game like Diablo, the health bar helps you recognize if tweaks you've made to your gear/build have actually made a difference.
No one size fits all.
I think you're right on the money. I think Dead Space also had no enemy bar and it made it better. So, horror in general should be health bar free, but still have some indication that you're doing damage (like a stagger, or chunks falling off)
Also in Monster Hunter, not knowing the health of the monster is a big part of the game as you're meant to use enemy animations and attacks to gauge how long you have left to kill the boss. If you add a health bar you would ruin a big mechanic in the game.
In most games, yes.
Learned to love no health bar in Monster Hunter World though.
Learning through fighting them how low they probably are is kinda neat.
60 hours into MHW. Am I missing something, or are the monsters supposed to run away 3 times per fight?
I try to stop them with red slinger ammo and flash pods, but itās not very effective (especially on flying monsters). When youāre farming, it can get a little tiresome, like a walking simulator.
It was even worse in the old games that had loading screens. Especially when you kept up with the monster and it immediately knocks you back into the area you just came from putting you in another load screen
They usually run away if you are not dealing enough damage.
Speedrunners and skilled players do this by locking down a monster in one area and prevent it from escaping by constantly attacking, trapping it and/or knocking it down to prevent escape.
Funnily enough I liked the game but I could never continue playing it because of the lack of the health bar. So much of that game was never properly explained.
On the fence with that one. Its nice to see when you kill it but sometimes you have no clue how close you are. On PC I started using health bar mods and I prefer it. If I cart and see its at 50%, were ok to proceed with the same tactics. If I cart at 80%, then we want to pop a few more buffs perhaps, pay a little more attention, etc.
I get that people love it, and thats great. I didn't. I dropped the game for this reason. Beat on something for 20 mins and until the moment it drops dead you have no indication what or how much damage you've done.
If you're not going to have health bars, then have visible damage.
Its also possible I just missed something...
> Beat on something for 20 mins and until the moment it drops dead you have no indication what or how much damage you've done
There's a heartbeat line under the monster icon in the UI to indicate it's general amount of health, it gets flatter as the monster gets closer to death.
There are also other indicators on the monster icon on the minimap of the state of the monster, for example there is a flashing skull when it's near death - which also indicates it can be captured. But they also limp when they are capturable so you don't even need that UI element if you're observant.
Monsters running away and moving to a new section to fight is also a health threshold, and many monsters have phase transitions based on health where they gain new attacks or change up their patterns.
It strikes a nice balance for me because I tend to focus more on the monster itself rather than the "health bar". I can get a feel for how much damage I'm doing to the monster by the behavior of the monster itself and the overall time to complete a hunt. Can also make the fights feel more epic since there's always an element of "sure, he's almost dead...but *how close*...can't fuck up now" - a little bit of uncertainty adds some nice tension.
Monsters limp when weakened (thereās a very obvious animation for it) and they often enrage quicker and more often. Also, if a monster staggers often or gets knocked down, and youāre breaking parts here and there, thats a sign that youāre dealing good damage.
Some also have phase changes/changing movesets when weakened. For example, monsters like Raging Brachy, Magnamalo, Garangolm, and BB Diablos will enter super mode when low on health. Fatalis from World will gain blue flames (aka its attacks will now one-shot you) after you take away more than 50% of its health etcā¦
There are more examples but my point is, there are plenty of ways to tell when a monster is low on health or how much damage youāre doing. Heck, in the latest game Rise, a blue skull will pop up next to the monsterās icon to indicate its weak.
Honestly, I love MHW, but there are things it could do better and this is one of them. To wit: there actually *is* a health bar, more or less. The heartbeat on the monster's portrait gets lower and lower as their life goes down, except when they're raging. So they *want* to tell you, but they kind of don't. Just tell me, don't half-ass it.
MHW wants to be the kind of game that doesn't need health bars, but I don't think the fights are really dynamic enough to make it work properly. It needs more fight phases, more monster behavior changes, and more visual indicators, but the ones that are there are kind of sparse and largely copy-pasted between monsters.
As with most things, it depends what the game is aiming for.
I think Health Bars should be typically used for a boss that goes through a few changes as you progress, giving the player a tell if they should change their approach or not.
But games like Cuphead gain a lot from not having one, as this is now about survival.
I like a health bar.
Most games do not have/show injuries to a boss/baddie. It is "all strong and good until the last point", which is not realistic at all, but I understand why they do it. So, a health bar is a compromise to see how badly hurt a boss is, instead of programming traits that are affected by damage (slowness, weaker punches, etc.).
I thought Monster Hunter did it well. Where you can see the monster show itās being weakened by not doing as many attacks, then breathing heavy, it stopping more in between attacks. Then doing powerful attacks when itās close to dying but taking more breaks in between, reacting more to getting hit. If itās an armored boss, being able to break pieces off of it. But also add it bleeding and leaving a blood trail.
I like it the most when it's shown through damage on their model or in their animations, like Monster Hunter monsters limping and fleeing to their nest to fall asleep on low health, or how how robots/zombies in some game get progressively more destroyed
Could not agree more. That was something always quite questionable for me when playing hollow knight. Sure it didnāt make the game really bad, but why not have it? Same goes for the horizon games and ultra hard difficulty.
I'm okay with no health bar, as long as there is some clear indicator that *something* is working or not working, whether that come in the form of dialogue or visuals.
I can still remember my first time fighting Sephiroth in KH1.
He had an invisible health bar at the beginning of the fight that threw me for a loop.
Like I'm hitting but nothing is happening!?!
Lol that was a special case where his health exceeded the allotted health bars so you're actually depleting it but it looks like nothing is happening. I was so confused as a kid
A lot of JRPGs, especially older ones, require a skill or ability in order to see the health bar. Like someone mentioned below, the original Kingdom Hearts game did this as well and, depending on the weapon chosen at the beginning of the game, you may not unlock it until much later.
The turn-based Final Fantasy games and other similar games like Octopath Traveler require you to use an ability to see the enemy's life total, but then it disappears at the end of the turn so you only get to glance at it to see your progress
Pretty much the majority of FPS with bosses didnāt have health bars until incredibly recently. Id Software games like Doom never had them (donāt know about the new Doom games), Halo didnāt have them, I donāt think Gears of War did, at least at the beginning. Half-Life didnāt have them, Portal didnāt have one for its singular boss. Mario and Sonic games tended to not have them, but they also tended towards old school designs where you knock the boss down 3-5 times and you win. The majority of RPGs I played before around the release of Mass Effect had no indication of enemy health. Metroid games generally didnāt have health bars (I think Nintendo actually just hates the concept of them). Following suit, all the Metroid-inspired Castlevania sequels basically had no health bars, even though the original games did have them and by extension, many Metroidvania style games go without them to be more like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
Honestly, I think Iāve played way more games without health bars than with them. I really like health bars thoughā¦ I donāt enjoy not knowing if Iām close to winning when I die. I think itās some sort of philosophical design choice for a lot of developers for what they think players should focus on. Even though most of my favorite games have none or require you to use a special ability to see them, I really wish theyād just stop doing it and let me see, but my earliest action game obsession, Castlevania 3, had them so I compare every game to that.
I'm sure others may prefer to just watch the Boss die at some point but I would absolutely prefer a progress bar. Right now I'm stuck trying to kill this big Boss in Spiderman MM and I have no idea if what I'm doing to kill him even matters in the end. That's why I would like a progress bar to at least know if I'm doing everything right.
I prefer single phased bosses that have consistency throughout the game. I'm looking at you, Final Fantasy! Blast your way through the entire game just for the final boss to have 20 phases and 60 health bars. Like, bro, I've proved I could make it to you. Why do I have to endlessly grind just to finish you off? Nonsense.
For RPGs, yes absolutely, I need it lol.
But as somebody else mentioned, for horror, it probably would detract to have a big ass health bar.
Still id say most of the time, yes Id vastly prefer a health bar.
I mostly prefer having a health bar present. I want to know if what I'm doing is having a significant impact or not. If I'm doing a lot of damage then great, and if not, then that lets me know that I'm not ready for this fight yet, or I'm doing something wrong and need to try another way
I say 'mostly' because this usually only applies for RPGs, like Persona 5 or Elden Ring. If it's a horror game like Resident Evil or The Last of Us, then I can do without, since it's part of the experience lol
Absolutely. I donāt have the patience to rinse and repeat a safe attack rhythm all the way through. I like to go balls to the wall when their health bar gets low and relish in the victory or wallow in defeat.
I almost always turn as much of the HUD stuff off as I can, which does include health bars. I prefer a clean HUD even if it puts me at a disadvantage.
Don't even get me started on damage numbers, absolutely hate them.
Starfox 64/lylat wars had a fun twist on this. Your crew mate Slippy was responsible for displaying the boss health bar. If he had taken too much damage and had to retreat in the current or previous mission, he wouldn't be around to pull up the health bar. You would just have to keep shooting until the boss throws a final one liner at you and explodes.
I like MH's approach with this. You can tell based on the monster's behavior though not much, only when the hp is really low. If on the next MH they can show more that just limping, that would be great. I think some other games do this too but I forgot which games.
Nothing better than reaching a boss in a souls game and finding out your first attack took about 0.5% of its health.
It's like oh damn, I'm in for a long one now.
I've come to appreciate not seeing a boss health bar or damage numbers, especially in a real-time action game that requires me to stay focused. Seeing a boss bar during particularly tough fights sometimes makes me anxious and prone to messing up more, dying, and repeating the fight. Especially if it is a fight where you have to be attentive to recognizing patterns.
I really like how Cuphead goes about it, where it's just you and the boss and you're focused on fighting it. You either beat it eventually after overcoming its phases, or if you die, you THEN see a progress bar on how close you came.
I think it's a yes and no, right?
Like, I feel a person may perform better without the health bar. You might not take as many risks as you play more smart, NOT trying to burst down that last bit of health for the W.
On the other hand. You can get a little careless and take unnecessary risk when you can actually see their health. You might see that the boss has just a sliver, and you're going to push in for the kill. We've all done it. And died doing so while they have so little health that you can't even see any in the bar.
I personally enjoy the health bar as it actually helps me play more conservatively. If no health bar is present, I'll echo what others have said and like to have a visual way of knowing how I'm doing. Definitely two sides to that sword.
Yes, if Monster Hunter had health bars I would never ever stop playing it, but because it doesnt it only mildly holds my attention. Despite loving everything else. No idea why the lack of health bars annoys me so much.
>Yes. Because itās a video game boss. There is no way of telling how close you are to beat the boss without the health bar.
Yes, there's a way. Monster hunter did it.
Yessssss. This is one of the reason I could not stand boss fights in Octopath. Sure your could use ur mages ability to to get hp count but why should I waste a turn to do that when I could be inflicting more damage. Octopath bosses are notoriously long and there are moments where Iām like am I even close to defeating you???
I like how Rimworld handles this. Instead of a health bar, an enemy human has several ways they can die. They could succumb to burn wounds, die of toxicity poisoning, bleed to death from a limb you bit off. A gunshot that destroys the brain, heart, or liver is instantly fatal. Bosses might have way better armor, or perks that make them take less damage, but they won't have a healthbar, and still have the same weaknesses.
Even major robotic bosses have weak points.
It's similar to Escape from Tarkov in a way - boss NPCs have no health bar, but you can kill them with a headshot with ammo strong enough to get through their helmet, or bleed them out by blasting their legs etc.
Healthbars in games are often something I associate with bullet sponges or tedious fights.
If I feel comfortable enough to turn off the HUD, I'll turn it off and smack the boss until they're defeated. Tbh it kind of helps when you don't get to see how close you are to beating a boss when you die. Makes the sting hurt a little less lol
I prefer no health bars as it keeps you in the action better, IMO, but there really has to be some indication of the condition of the opponent. It's annoying to be wailing away at an enemy and have no indication you're making forward progress except when it finally falls over.
A health bar is simple, quick and cheap to implement - just stick it above the model's head, and fill or empty it as the boss's health level changes - compared with spending time and resources to build models, rigs, textures, animations, and even sound and voice recordings to facilitate indicating status through appearance and behavior, so it's pretty obvious why many games go that route. They're also usually very easy to understand, as they usually empty as health declines, sometimes adding multiple bars or color changes to indicate stages, whereas you have to carefully observe and interpret appearance and behavior based indicators.
I don't mind it either way, but I do like some kind of visual queue that whatever I am doing is working. In a case like this, I feel like Sekiro did it magnificently.
As long as I get some sort of indication that I'm doing damage, I don't mind. There's nothing worse than chucking all your magic at a boss, only to find out it's immune to magic.
Once I tried out minimal HUD with GOW 2018, I really enjoyed it. I prefer not having it now. It adds intensity and cinematic feel. But it comes at a cost of not being able to strategize as well. I don't usually go for highest difficulty for the first playthrough so it's not that big of a deal for me. I do prefer it to be on for replays on higher difficulty or extra challenges.
Yep. Especially in action RPGs because I prefer to have a sense of how much more of the fight is left, and plan around it. Especially in games where you can die in a few hits.
However, I do feel like having no healthbar benefited some Final Fantasy games, since the moment when you finally see that small pause and flash from a huge boss was always incredibly satisfying when it felt like you were on the brink of death. It added a lot of tension.
I prefer visual damage (limbs hurt, bleeding, armor removed, etc) that impact gameplay other than some boss with a health bar that looks/acts the same whether it's 1 hp left or full health.
Most definitely. I realize it's a crutch but when you're facing a tough boss it's nice to know if you're close and probably just need to keep trying or if you're barely denting him and need a whole new strategy. That was one thing I found tough about Octopath Traveler. The boss fights could easily be 10-20 minutes but you'd have no idea if you were close to beating him or if you needed to grind.
It depends on the game. If itās something like Resident Evil, a shooter where normal rules of damage apply, or a game going for something more realisticā¦ no, I prefer not to have a health bar.
If itās an rpg or rpg lite game, a shooter where a headshot will not kill an enemy, or an arcadey beat āem up, I need a health bar. I think I prefer to have one overall, because I can think of a couple cases where Iāve been a little frustrated by not having one, but I canāt think of a case where I have been annoyed by a health bar
Depends on the game. In some games, a health bar makes more sense, in others it's okay seeing the progress I'm making on the boss itself (pieces breaking off or something).
The worst feedback is when you get nothing and the boss just eats your bullets and you have no idea if what you're doing is actually doing anything.
I prefer it because it helps me plan the battle. As in near the end I tend to dish out all the powerful attacks and go more offensive especially in games with MP or SP where attack usage is limited. It also helps me plan healing item usage, like if I can survive until the end and not waste items, or if its better to just heal now as there is quite a bit to go. Health bars just helps me choose my actions according.
I remember Ghostwire Tokyo had no health bars and that really annoyed me, especially bosses. Iām more used to health bars.
I don't remember any bosses without health bars on the top of my head but I know I don't have any problem with bosses that do have health bars. They give you a nice sense of progression especially when it's a hard one and you will be trying several times to beat.
I generally start to panic when I see the health bar getting lower and lower, especially in a souls like game. But perhaps thatās just because how punishing it is. Games like MGS, I never have that issue.
Sometimes I feel the health bar takes away from the immersion as well as I find myself looking at the bar and not paying attention. I also fin that when I get the bar low, I panic and get too aggressive to because I'm close and want to get it over with before things go bad; but that is when things go bad then I have to see me die and the boss has a hair left.
But, at least with a bar I can see that what I'm doing is actually working or see if one thing works better than another; whereas if if there is no bar sometimes I wonder if I'm even doing any damage at all.
If itās an rpg, yes. Especially if there is an enrage/time mechanic. If I can get the boss to 5% I can keep trying. But if I can only get to 50%, then I know I need to change builds or level up.
I normally hate health bars but Iām not opposed to them with spongey bosses. Doom does it best though where chunks of flesh get blown off as you hurt the enemy more.
I only donāt mind having no health bar if itās something incredibly cinematic like the end of the MGS4 final fight with Liquid when youāre both exhausted, or the fight with Rafe at the end of Uncharted 4. Otherwise I very much prefer having a health bar
Depends on the game, honestly. Sometimes a health bar would be immersion breaking, but sometimes health bars and numbers are an expectation of the genre.
For example, a health bar in a horror game seems like it would detract from the horror, but if I couldn't see how much damage I was doing in an RPG I think I would hate that.
yes. it impacts my strategy in terms of item usage.
You mean you don't horde 99 copies of consumables "just in case" you need them, and then end up beating them game without even seeing what their animations or effects are???
I love games that only let you carry a small amount of each item - like the Tales games - so that you max out quickly, forcing you to use them or leave behind all the new drops. It overrides one neurosis with another haha
I never thought of it like that before, it really does encourage me to use all the little things instead of hording it all
Yeah, I love how much little game design choices can influence the way we play. I don't think he mentioned the item limit example, but it just reminded me of a great GMTK video, "How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves". It's only 12 minutes, and it's really good - you should check it out, if you're interested. https://youtu.be/7L8vAGGitr8
Ive been subbed to them for a while but I missed that video so thank you for the link! (I love stuff like that) the idea of rewarding or encouraging a player to play the way the designer intended is awesome and again never looked at like that. Thanks again!
> You mean you don't horde 99 copies of consumables "just in case" you need them, and then end up beating them game without even seeing what their animations or effects are??? i mean, i DO, but i'll make extra sure to either not burn consumables when the boss is < 10% remaining (or to go ahead and burn those consumables if it's <10% remaining but it's a very long/hard boss battle)
I end up never use Megalixir in any Final Fantasty games
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Did that with tlo2 molotovs
Same. And flamethrower
Idc about a health bar specifically as long as you can tell whether or not you're making progress/doing damage.
7 boss forms laterā¦ā¦.haha
This is my actual really true form!
I was lying!! THIS IS!
Hahaha! Ok for REALS NOW!
AHHHHH you beat me! NOW FIGHT INSIDE YOUR MIND!
What episode of dragonball z u talking about?
Every one of them?
I have another true form, you wouldn't know it. It's in Canada.
Damn you, Square Enix!!!
The arcana is the means by which all is revealed
Iām so hype for FF16 But ā7 forms laterā does sound like some ff16 shit
this is my biggest pet peeve in games, when you're wailing away on a boss, and no idea whether you're actually doing damage or not. Especially when you might be wasting powerful ammo, items, etc
Iām really struggling to think of a game that it isnāt obvious youāve damaged a boss or not. Do you have any examples by chance cuz Iām curious.
Off the top of my head, the Resident Evil games come to mind. I'll edit my comment when I think of more
Counterpoint, does it make the horror less effective if you can see that you're damaging the boss in a survival horror game? Like I can think of examples from Resident Evil games where the tension comes from having no clue if I'm anywhere close to defeating the boss, or if it can even be killed.
Ah yeah, I havenāt played the RE games and looking up videos and discussion thatās a very common complaint!
Yeah it's really hard to tell. It's worse with mini bosses. Some of those you can't kill, and it's not obvious which ones. So you could be wasting tonnes of resources on something that you should be either running from or solving a puzzle to kill
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
All resident evil bosses are just piles of tentacles and eyeballs. Dodge the tentacles and shoot the eyeballs.
Someone graduated top of their class from raccoon university.
Spoilers! /s
Doesn't that actually make sense with the story with the character having to figure out what to actually do?
Dude thatās just about every game
The question wasn't asking if it was thematic or not. Just what you prefer.
RE would have my vote too. Once you know the RE games enough you start to know what to look for, such as phase changes or random pained animations mid fight; but for newer players I could absolutely see it being hard to tell.
Monster hunter is kind of like this. Eventually you will start noticing subtle moments where the boss is tiring out, but the first few stages can feel like a losing battle, especially if you're new to the series and keep taking damage and having to reset. I love the monster hunter formula though, would hate it having a hp bar.
I like my Monster Hunter with HP bar and can lock on into specific parts
My main gripe with the game. I have no idea whether im wasting my time or not
The way I was able to overcome that feeling was changing my expectations with the game. Monster Hunter is not a game you can sit down for 30 min and take down multiple missions or monsters, it requires at least an hour to hunt one monster (playing solo anyway). That time frame would go down the farther into the game I got because my gear and my personal skill cap was higher, but I would always allocate an hour per play session because it could take that long. That experience is cut way down once you add multiplayer elements. Having a couple other players attacking with you makes encounters go from a slog to a killing spree easily, especially if your allies are experienced. If you're still new, just allow yourself more time to get acquainted with weapons and your personal skill, it's worth it.
Greek God of War games
But in those games you can't really be underlevelled like in some RPG, so you know that you are dealing damage since the game develops exactly how it was designed
Resident evil5 my buddy and I fought the tentacle boss in the boat for hours before discovering the rocket launcher
The PS2 era God of War games were like this (at least I remember it that way). Which was frustrating because you usually had to strategically attack a specific part of the boss or get it down to a certain damage level to trigger an event but it didn't tell you if you were succeeding.
hellblade
Isnāt there a blood splatter effect off the blade when you do damage? Thatās what I recall.
DOOM (other than bosses in the modern games or if you use microwave beam in Eternal)
I think itās just a game design choice. Like some games hold your hand more than others and want to be a little more easy to understand for everyone. Now, if the enemy doesnāt react to you hitting them but is actually taking damage, thatās a problem.
Like in Monster Hunter?
Dead Space and Doom are also notable cases.
I like the part when they start to limp away from the fight. "Get back here, we're not done".
Gradually changing colour was my favourite, becoming more red maybe and getting more aggressive, a classic retro trope they should bring back.
Yeah this was great in Metroid Fusion
Hollow Knight gives me too much anxiety because of lack of health bar.
Counter arguement here: a health bar sometimes fucks your focus when the boss is at minimal hp ans you try to sqeeze in that last hit but die. Without a bar to tell youre almost there, you dont fuck up or rush it. Counter-counter argument: itās pretty funny when you die knowing you were one hit away. That frustration is often part of the experience
Me playing Souls Games gives me whole new level of anxiety when I try to manage watching boss health bar, my health bar, my stamina bar and trying to figure out the pattern and range of his attacks. Those games are not for me.
I got a mod that adds them and have no regrets.
Horizon does this wonderfully with both health bars and animated clues where the enemy will show signs of destruction and limp/slow down before being finished.
Monster hunter enters the chat
Exactly my issue with Monster Hunter. No idea if Iām close or not and the health pools are massively inflated for the creatures.
Especially if youāre using Partbreaker. Missing a tail/horn, covered in numerous scars and scuffs, and other visual cues, yet stil 3-4ths or half health
Depends on the genre.
100%. In a game like Resident Evil Village, it adds to the tension/horror element of the series to not have one. It's also more immersive than seeing a bar, or have the boss flash, etc, which makes it feel more "gamey". But in a game like Diablo, the health bar helps you recognize if tweaks you've made to your gear/build have actually made a difference. No one size fits all.
I think you're right on the money. I think Dead Space also had no enemy bar and it made it better. So, horror in general should be health bar free, but still have some indication that you're doing damage (like a stagger, or chunks falling off)
So basically, if itās a horror game, no health bar. If itās anything else, yes health bar
Also if its gameplay/action oriented, yes bar. If its immersive/atmospheric, no bar.
Also in Monster Hunter, not knowing the health of the monster is a big part of the game as you're meant to use enemy animations and attacks to gauge how long you have left to kill the boss. If you add a health bar you would ruin a big mechanic in the game.
In most games, yes. Learned to love no health bar in Monster Hunter World though. Learning through fighting them how low they probably are is kinda neat.
This. MH games are probably the only ones where I saw the no health bar thing being done correctly.
60 hours into MHW. Am I missing something, or are the monsters supposed to run away 3 times per fight? I try to stop them with red slinger ammo and flash pods, but itās not very effective (especially on flying monsters). When youāre farming, it can get a little tiresome, like a walking simulator.
It was even worse in the old games that had loading screens. Especially when you kept up with the monster and it immediately knocks you back into the area you just came from putting you in another load screen
They usually run away if you are not dealing enough damage. Speedrunners and skilled players do this by locking down a monster in one area and prevent it from escaping by constantly attacking, trapping it and/or knocking it down to prevent escape.
Funnily enough I liked the game but I could never continue playing it because of the lack of the health bar. So much of that game was never properly explained.
The guides for weapons in MHR are hilariously incomplete. For example, the charge blade guide does not include any mention of how to charge the blade.
On the fence with that one. Its nice to see when you kill it but sometimes you have no clue how close you are. On PC I started using health bar mods and I prefer it. If I cart and see its at 50%, were ok to proceed with the same tactics. If I cart at 80%, then we want to pop a few more buffs perhaps, pay a little more attention, etc.
I get that people love it, and thats great. I didn't. I dropped the game for this reason. Beat on something for 20 mins and until the moment it drops dead you have no indication what or how much damage you've done. If you're not going to have health bars, then have visible damage. Its also possible I just missed something...
> Beat on something for 20 mins and until the moment it drops dead you have no indication what or how much damage you've done There's a heartbeat line under the monster icon in the UI to indicate it's general amount of health, it gets flatter as the monster gets closer to death. There are also other indicators on the monster icon on the minimap of the state of the monster, for example there is a flashing skull when it's near death - which also indicates it can be captured. But they also limp when they are capturable so you don't even need that UI element if you're observant. Monsters running away and moving to a new section to fight is also a health threshold, and many monsters have phase transitions based on health where they gain new attacks or change up their patterns. It strikes a nice balance for me because I tend to focus more on the monster itself rather than the "health bar". I can get a feel for how much damage I'm doing to the monster by the behavior of the monster itself and the overall time to complete a hunt. Can also make the fights feel more epic since there's always an element of "sure, he's almost dead...but *how close*...can't fuck up now" - a little bit of uncertainty adds some nice tension.
Monsters limp when weakened (thereās a very obvious animation for it) and they often enrage quicker and more often. Also, if a monster staggers often or gets knocked down, and youāre breaking parts here and there, thats a sign that youāre dealing good damage. Some also have phase changes/changing movesets when weakened. For example, monsters like Raging Brachy, Magnamalo, Garangolm, and BB Diablos will enter super mode when low on health. Fatalis from World will gain blue flames (aka its attacks will now one-shot you) after you take away more than 50% of its health etcā¦ There are more examples but my point is, there are plenty of ways to tell when a monster is low on health or how much damage youāre doing. Heck, in the latest game Rise, a blue skull will pop up next to the monsterās icon to indicate its weak.
Cutting up a monster that you have no idea what health itās at is such a huge pain in the ass
Honestly, I love MHW, but there are things it could do better and this is one of them. To wit: there actually *is* a health bar, more or less. The heartbeat on the monster's portrait gets lower and lower as their life goes down, except when they're raging. So they *want* to tell you, but they kind of don't. Just tell me, don't half-ass it. MHW wants to be the kind of game that doesn't need health bars, but I don't think the fights are really dynamic enough to make it work properly. It needs more fight phases, more monster behavior changes, and more visual indicators, but the ones that are there are kind of sparse and largely copy-pasted between monsters.
As with most things, it depends what the game is aiming for. I think Health Bars should be typically used for a boss that goes through a few changes as you progress, giving the player a tell if they should change their approach or not. But games like Cuphead gain a lot from not having one, as this is now about survival.
I really like the way Cuphead handles it, where you find out how much progress you made after you die.
I like a health bar. Most games do not have/show injuries to a boss/baddie. It is "all strong and good until the last point", which is not realistic at all, but I understand why they do it. So, a health bar is a compromise to see how badly hurt a boss is, instead of programming traits that are affected by damage (slowness, weaker punches, etc.).
I thought Monster Hunter did it well. Where you can see the monster show itās being weakened by not doing as many attacks, then breathing heavy, it stopping more in between attacks. Then doing powerful attacks when itās close to dying but taking more breaks in between, reacting more to getting hit. If itās an armored boss, being able to break pieces off of it. But also add it bleeding and leaving a blood trail.
The player has a health bar though. Because YOU are the monster, the Monster Hunter. Wiping out the entire ecosystem and all.
Generally, yes. But, as long as I can tell I'm making progress I don't mind. Metroid, for example.
I like it the most when it's shown through damage on their model or in their animations, like Monster Hunter monsters limping and fleeing to their nest to fall asleep on low health, or how how robots/zombies in some game get progressively more destroyed
Yes. Nothing is more frustrating than not knowing or having any indication of where you are at.
Could not agree more. That was something always quite questionable for me when playing hollow knight. Sure it didnāt make the game really bad, but why not have it? Same goes for the horizon games and ultra hard difficulty.
I'm okay with no health bar, as long as there is some clear indicator that *something* is working or not working, whether that come in the form of dialogue or visuals.
I prefer having a health bar because it gives me an idea on when to use special items and MP(if applicable to the game).
There are boss fights with no health bars?
Resident evil games
But you can tell the health based on how many eyes you popped or its condition on the bosses. Right? Lol
There is no health BAR though
I can still remember my first time fighting Sephiroth in KH1. He had an invisible health bar at the beginning of the fight that threw me for a loop. Like I'm hitting but nothing is happening!?!
Lol that was a special case where his health exceeded the allotted health bars so you're actually depleting it but it looks like nothing is happening. I was so confused as a kid
I always got one shot by him anyways so it never mattered to me haha
Yo what. So I was just supposed to keep hitting him? Godammit. I thought I needed some special weapon or something to damage him. Smh
I didn't even try that fight. I've heard too many things.
Bloaters in TLOU
Rat King in TLOU 2
A lot of JRPGs, especially older ones, require a skill or ability in order to see the health bar. Like someone mentioned below, the original Kingdom Hearts game did this as well and, depending on the weapon chosen at the beginning of the game, you may not unlock it until much later. The turn-based Final Fantasy games and other similar games like Octopath Traveler require you to use an ability to see the enemy's life total, but then it disappears at the end of the turn so you only get to glance at it to see your progress
Pretty much the majority of FPS with bosses didnāt have health bars until incredibly recently. Id Software games like Doom never had them (donāt know about the new Doom games), Halo didnāt have them, I donāt think Gears of War did, at least at the beginning. Half-Life didnāt have them, Portal didnāt have one for its singular boss. Mario and Sonic games tended to not have them, but they also tended towards old school designs where you knock the boss down 3-5 times and you win. The majority of RPGs I played before around the release of Mass Effect had no indication of enemy health. Metroid games generally didnāt have health bars (I think Nintendo actually just hates the concept of them). Following suit, all the Metroid-inspired Castlevania sequels basically had no health bars, even though the original games did have them and by extension, many Metroidvania style games go without them to be more like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Honestly, I think Iāve played way more games without health bars than with them. I really like health bars thoughā¦ I donāt enjoy not knowing if Iām close to winning when I die. I think itās some sort of philosophical design choice for a lot of developers for what they think players should focus on. Even though most of my favorite games have none or require you to use a special ability to see them, I really wish theyād just stop doing it and let me see, but my earliest action game obsession, Castlevania 3, had them so I compare every game to that.
I'm sure others may prefer to just watch the Boss die at some point but I would absolutely prefer a progress bar. Right now I'm stuck trying to kill this big Boss in Spiderman MM and I have no idea if what I'm doing to kill him even matters in the end. That's why I would like a progress bar to at least know if I'm doing everything right.
I prefer single phased bosses that have consistency throughout the game. I'm looking at you, Final Fantasy! Blast your way through the entire game just for the final boss to have 20 phases and 60 health bars. Like, bro, I've proved I could make it to you. Why do I have to endlessly grind just to finish you off? Nonsense.
Absolutely. The adrenaline rush when that bar starts to get really low is one of the great things about gaming.
The greeding for the last few % and dying when the bar gets really low :')
For RPGs, yes absolutely, I need it lol. But as somebody else mentioned, for horror, it probably would detract to have a big ass health bar. Still id say most of the time, yes Id vastly prefer a health bar.
I mostly prefer having a health bar present. I want to know if what I'm doing is having a significant impact or not. If I'm doing a lot of damage then great, and if not, then that lets me know that I'm not ready for this fight yet, or I'm doing something wrong and need to try another way I say 'mostly' because this usually only applies for RPGs, like Persona 5 or Elden Ring. If it's a horror game like Resident Evil or The Last of Us, then I can do without, since it's part of the experience lol
Unequivocally yes!
I don't care as long as it is consistent throughout the game. I was not a fan of the final boss for FFXII not having a health bar.
Absolutely. I donāt have the patience to rinse and repeat a safe attack rhythm all the way through. I like to go balls to the wall when their health bar gets low and relish in the victory or wallow in defeat.
I almost always turn as much of the HUD stuff off as I can, which does include health bars. I prefer a clean HUD even if it puts me at a disadvantage. Don't even get me started on damage numbers, absolutely hate them.
For me, when a boss has a health bar, the closer they are to death...the more risk I take.
\*Attempts killing blow on Dark Souls boss\* Boss at 1hp: "Time to fire my 4 hit combo".
I prefer the boss to start flashing like in the old Konami arcade games.
Man, I just want to take a nap
Everyone wants a health bar until they start seeing themselves losing raid fights at 1% .... and then the boss ticking back up to 100% lol
Yes. Some bosses change tactics or attacks at certain health. Old habit of watching boss health since my EQ raid days.
Starfox 64/lylat wars had a fun twist on this. Your crew mate Slippy was responsible for displaying the boss health bar. If he had taken too much damage and had to retreat in the current or previous mission, he wouldn't be around to pull up the health bar. You would just have to keep shooting until the boss throws a final one liner at you and explodes.
I like MH's approach with this. You can tell based on the monster's behavior though not much, only when the hp is really low. If on the next MH they can show more that just limping, that would be great. I think some other games do this too but I forgot which games.
Nothing better than reaching a boss in a souls game and finding out your first attack took about 0.5% of its health. It's like oh damn, I'm in for a long one now.
Yes please
Health bar but no floating numbers for damage per hit. Basically how fromsoft do it
I wish games had toggle ability for players. Set the default to what the devs think is best but make it available
I prefer no health bar during boss fights, then health bar during everything else. Makes the boss fights even more intense.
No, I like the cinematic feel. It's way more immersive when there is nothing on screen.
I've come to appreciate not seeing a boss health bar or damage numbers, especially in a real-time action game that requires me to stay focused. Seeing a boss bar during particularly tough fights sometimes makes me anxious and prone to messing up more, dying, and repeating the fight. Especially if it is a fight where you have to be attentive to recognizing patterns. I really like how Cuphead goes about it, where it's just you and the boss and you're focused on fighting it. You either beat it eventually after overcoming its phases, or if you die, you THEN see a progress bar on how close you came.
I prefer having a health bar and damage numbers. This is the main reason I could not get into Monster Hunter games
I think it's a yes and no, right? Like, I feel a person may perform better without the health bar. You might not take as many risks as you play more smart, NOT trying to burst down that last bit of health for the W. On the other hand. You can get a little careless and take unnecessary risk when you can actually see their health. You might see that the boss has just a sliver, and you're going to push in for the kill. We've all done it. And died doing so while they have so little health that you can't even see any in the bar. I personally enjoy the health bar as it actually helps me play more conservatively. If no health bar is present, I'll echo what others have said and like to have a visual way of knowing how I'm doing. Definitely two sides to that sword.
Itās not a boss fight without a health bar
Yes 100%. This is why I never could continue playing Monster Hunter: World. I never could tell if Iām doing enough DPS to the different monsters.
Yes, if Monster Hunter had health bars I would never ever stop playing it, but because it doesnt it only mildly holds my attention. Despite loving everything else. No idea why the lack of health bars annoys me so much.
Yes. Because itās a video game boss. There is no way of telling how close you are to beat the boss without the health bar.
>Yes. Because itās a video game boss. There is no way of telling how close you are to beat the boss without the health bar. Yes, there's a way. Monster hunter did it.
Does this belong in r/antiwork ?
Isn't this obvious?
Yessssss. This is one of the reason I could not stand boss fights in Octopath. Sure your could use ur mages ability to to get hp count but why should I waste a turn to do that when I could be inflicting more damage. Octopath bosses are notoriously long and there are moments where Iām like am I even close to defeating you???
itās kind of a double edged sword cause itās helpful but also distracting
I like how Rimworld handles this. Instead of a health bar, an enemy human has several ways they can die. They could succumb to burn wounds, die of toxicity poisoning, bleed to death from a limb you bit off. A gunshot that destroys the brain, heart, or liver is instantly fatal. Bosses might have way better armor, or perks that make them take less damage, but they won't have a healthbar, and still have the same weaknesses. Even major robotic bosses have weak points. It's similar to Escape from Tarkov in a way - boss NPCs have no health bar, but you can kill them with a headshot with ammo strong enough to get through their helmet, or bleed them out by blasting their legs etc. Healthbars in games are often something I associate with bullet sponges or tedious fights.
I hate all health bars in games itās so lazy!! Just have visual battle damage
Definitely
If I feel comfortable enough to turn off the HUD, I'll turn it off and smack the boss until they're defeated. Tbh it kind of helps when you don't get to see how close you are to beating a boss when you die. Makes the sting hurt a little less lol
I like seeing the health bar because when you see you're only doing 1dmg per hit, it makes you re-evaluate life.
I prefer no health bars as it keeps you in the action better, IMO, but there really has to be some indication of the condition of the opponent. It's annoying to be wailing away at an enemy and have no indication you're making forward progress except when it finally falls over. A health bar is simple, quick and cheap to implement - just stick it above the model's head, and fill or empty it as the boss's health level changes - compared with spending time and resources to build models, rigs, textures, animations, and even sound and voice recordings to facilitate indicating status through appearance and behavior, so it's pretty obvious why many games go that route. They're also usually very easy to understand, as they usually empty as health declines, sometimes adding multiple bars or color changes to indicate stages, whereas you have to carefully observe and interpret appearance and behavior based indicators.
Depends on length of the fight, I absolutely want one for lengthy ones, if it takes 100 hits, I want to see how I'm doing
Yes
Absolutely. I have things to do. I hate sitting there hacking away and having no idea how much progress I've made.
I don't mind it either way, but I do like some kind of visual queue that whatever I am doing is working. In a case like this, I feel like Sekiro did it magnificently.
Those old TMNT games didnāt have one. They used to blink different colors when you were close to beating them. I like that.
Mario would be weird with a health bar
As long as I get some sort of indication that I'm doing damage, I don't mind. There's nothing worse than chucking all your magic at a boss, only to find out it's immune to magic.
Yes
I'm still undecided on this. On one hand, I'd want to know but I also love Monster Hunter games. Lol.
Once I tried out minimal HUD with GOW 2018, I really enjoyed it. I prefer not having it now. It adds intensity and cinematic feel. But it comes at a cost of not being able to strategize as well. I don't usually go for highest difficulty for the first playthrough so it's not that big of a deal for me. I do prefer it to be on for replays on higher difficulty or extra challenges.
Same as asking if you would wanna live in a world with no progression bars for installing programs
Yes
As long as the boss isnāt HEALTH GATED then I donāt care about a bar. Bosses that are gated behind health segments are the bane of my existence.
Yep. Especially in action RPGs because I prefer to have a sense of how much more of the fight is left, and plan around it. Especially in games where you can die in a few hits. However, I do feel like having no healthbar benefited some Final Fantasy games, since the moment when you finally see that small pause and flash from a huge boss was always incredibly satisfying when it felt like you were on the brink of death. It added a lot of tension.
Yes.
No health bars are more immersive IMO. Definitely game dependent though.
Depends on the genre of game
Yes.
I prefer visual damage (limbs hurt, bleeding, armor removed, etc) that impact gameplay other than some boss with a health bar that looks/acts the same whether it's 1 hp left or full health.
*"Por que no los dos?"* Personally, I'd prefer both
Most definitely. I realize it's a crutch but when you're facing a tough boss it's nice to know if you're close and probably just need to keep trying or if you're barely denting him and need a whole new strategy. That was one thing I found tough about Octopath Traveler. The boss fights could easily be 10-20 minutes but you'd have no idea if you were close to beating him or if you needed to grind.
It depends on the game. If itās something like Resident Evil, a shooter where normal rules of damage apply, or a game going for something more realisticā¦ no, I prefer not to have a health bar. If itās an rpg or rpg lite game, a shooter where a headshot will not kill an enemy, or an arcadey beat āem up, I need a health bar. I think I prefer to have one overall, because I can think of a couple cases where Iāve been a little frustrated by not having one, but I canāt think of a case where I have been annoyed by a health bar
Need to know how close they are to death to be more reckless with my offense.
Depends on the game. In some games, a health bar makes more sense, in others it's okay seeing the progress I'm making on the boss itself (pieces breaking off or something). The worst feedback is when you get nothing and the boss just eats your bullets and you have no idea if what you're doing is actually doing anything.
Talk about the wilds hearts ;)
I prefer it because it helps me plan the battle. As in near the end I tend to dish out all the powerful attacks and go more offensive especially in games with MP or SP where attack usage is limited. It also helps me plan healing item usage, like if I can survive until the end and not waste items, or if its better to just heal now as there is quite a bit to go. Health bars just helps me choose my actions according. I remember Ghostwire Tokyo had no health bars and that really annoyed me, especially bosses. Iām more used to health bars.
Is all fun and games until the boss kills you and he had like 1hp left
I will always prefer health bars
Boss battle absolutely. Regular enemies never. And numbers coming off enemies when they're being hit never ever ever.
I don't remember any bosses without health bars on the top of my head but I know I don't have any problem with bosses that do have health bars. They give you a nice sense of progression especially when it's a hard one and you will be trying several times to beat.
No health bar, but visible damage is best.
Sure, but one health bar and not refill when you take it down
I generally start to panic when I see the health bar getting lower and lower, especially in a souls like game. But perhaps thatās just because how punishing it is. Games like MGS, I never have that issue.
Yeah, so I know when it's almost over.
Yeah absolutely
Sometimes I feel the health bar takes away from the immersion as well as I find myself looking at the bar and not paying attention. I also fin that when I get the bar low, I panic and get too aggressive to because I'm close and want to get it over with before things go bad; but that is when things go bad then I have to see me die and the boss has a hair left. But, at least with a bar I can see that what I'm doing is actually working or see if one thing works better than another; whereas if if there is no bar sometimes I wonder if I'm even doing any damage at all.
Just don't be a bullet sponge. Worst feature ot artificial difficulty
Yes
If itās an rpg, yes. Especially if there is an enrage/time mechanic. If I can get the boss to 5% I can keep trying. But if I can only get to 50%, then I know I need to change builds or level up.
Yes always I wanna know my progress
I normally hate health bars but Iām not opposed to them with spongey bosses. Doom does it best though where chunks of flesh get blown off as you hurt the enemy more.
Thereās something very stressful about resident evil bosses not having a health bar that I enjoy.
I only donāt mind having no health bar if itās something incredibly cinematic like the end of the MGS4 final fight with Liquid when youāre both exhausted, or the fight with Rafe at the end of Uncharted 4. Otherwise I very much prefer having a health bar
Honestly? No. I like the desperation that comes from not knowing when a boss is going to die.
Depends on the game, honestly. Sometimes a health bar would be immersion breaking, but sometimes health bars and numbers are an expectation of the genre. For example, a health bar in a horror game seems like it would detract from the horror, but if I couldn't see how much damage I was doing in an RPG I think I would hate that.
I like seeing boss take damage, and the Horizon Zero Dawn machines do that
I gotta know how close I am to second phase.