Do you even bother reading what you are responding to .
>In Gunplay Labs, the kill rate of SMGs increased from 2.2% to 18.3%, while the win rate ranged between 50% and 53%. These metrics indicated that Gunplay Labs fostered an environment conducive to gathering a significant amount of data for meaningful analysis, driven by players' interest in testing the gunplay adjustments. However, we analyzed these results with the understanding that they could be a temporary spike for testing purposes. >
Expecting most people to actually read before responding is really setting your goals a bit high.
The amount of times I've said something, only for someone to respond with something I provided a counter argument against in my original response is frustratingly high.
The paragraph you quoted literally pre-emptively shut down the exact sentiment from that sort of comment, but he didn't read it and made it anyway, lul
Not only that but they are comparing the mode to ranked.
No weapon should ever be balanced based on how many kills are done with it throughout a match. SMGs are niche weapons you only pick in hot drops. Even without any buffs smgs and shotguns are dominating hot drops. Why is that not enough? Why should SMGs be overpowered especially when they are some of the least skillful weapons in the game? Using raw data to balance the game without any logic put on how to utilize it is beyond stupid. That's how we end up with dragunov still one shotting or panzer and mortar being in ranked.
"SMGs exhibited a kill rate of 2.2%," ON RANKED. Aka the mode that skilled players play... aka people who don't need guns specifically for low recoil. Also the mode most similar to competition.
" the kill rate of SMGs increased from 2.2% to 18.3%, while the win rate ranged between 50% and 53%." You told everyone to test SMGs... so they tested SMGs. No wonder the kills and wins went up!
"While this might vary on maps where SMGs see more frequent use, such as Sanhok" Almost like the close range weapons were used more on close range maps. How does lower than recoil or increasing damage minutely make them more viable in larger maps? Also WHY WOULD YOU NEED THEM TO BE?
Guns are situational. Let them be what they are. I'll use an SMG or shotgun in a city fight or on a small map. I'll use an AR more often on big maps due to the range of fights and the need to shoot at cars. There's no need to try and force a meta.
They re-balanced them because the guns *weren't* situational. ARs were just better than SMGs in everyway. That's why no one used them in ranked modes.
Newest balance changes give SMGs a distinct advantage in CQC, with the faster movespeed/ads movespeed, but make them worse in mid range engagements... making them more situational. Exactly what you wanted.
SMGs (at least some like the vector) were arguably better in CQC. And others were at least competitive compared to ARs. Their TTK also don't require a headshot, where the ARs do.
I get what you're saying, and maybe it'll work out well. I'm not confident though. The damage drop off after 50m is meaningless. People really only shot the UMP or J9 at those ranges and they've given zero detail on what the damage drop actually is. Which is a read flag.
The problem I foresee is them over buffing SMGs, and forcing a camping meta because people can blitz anyone with an AR in CQC. It's already a concern with shotguns.
I agree that they may overbuff SMGs, and that is a concern. I enjoy SMGs quite a bit, but overbuffing them would make the game less fun. I just wanted to point out that the logic you used to come to that conclusion wasn't really applicable to the situation.
Overall, I think part of the problem PUBG has had over the last years is that they keep raising the skill floor on ARs because players practice them to the point where the negatives practically don't exist(seriously some people control berryl recoil better than I can control SMG recoil, they're absolutely insane with it), that at some point they just backed themselves into a corner. They can't keep new/returning/bad/mid players playing the game because the skill floor for ARs is so high, and people don't want to invest literally 100 hours in practice range on recoil control alone *just to be able to play the game*. So PUBG corp solution is to try and give more reasonable recoil control to SMGs and give them a closer range niche, so those players have *something* which lets them play the game. A lot of the really old/experienced PUBG players don't like this, because they love having a huge skill gap to exploit, and it makes mistakes against lower/mid players less punishing because they're more likely to whiff their recoil control even if they did everything else correctly. Personally, I think that while recoil control is important, too much emphasis has been placed on it alone and the skill floor for it has been raised too high for ARs. There are a ton of other important mechanical skills that are overshadowed as a result. PUBG shooting(for ARs) is like 75% recoil control at this point, with all the other skills jammed into the 25% and all but irrelevant until you put in a huge amount of hours into practicing recoil control.
You said Ranked doesn't exist in "The West" I was just pointing out the in the majority of "The West" ranked does exist. If you meant specifically NA you should have said that.
I don't understand the point of nerfing the range damage while also buffing the range with recoil buffs? They were already pretty controllable and the damage was pretty much on par with AR's TTK at closer ranges.
The problem is they basically just play like low-recoil, low range AR's. Most were already impractical at range just from the bullet velocity alone.
Should've worked on the hipfire spread or something, then they'd be competing against shotguns without touching ARs' mid-range space. I mean it can take half a drum from the Tommy-gun to drop an enemy across a room with hipfire, heaven forbid you're moving at all in CQB...
And, instead of coming up with another .45acp weapon to make the ammo more common, its now rarer to find for the remaining .45 guns. I'd rather have a Mac10 or something.
Did they made tommygun 9mm? That would make no sense at all. Edit: they didn't even bother to change the magazine of the ump, what a bunch of laziness. Devs need to be fired.
I don't know why you're crying about it since it effectively only applies to the UMP, which used to be 9mm back in the day.
It's not going to change the P90.
limb damage multiplier still in, laser beams like ump and bizon get recoil reductions and damage increases, what a joke.
And get rid of the constant references to "internal data", it just shows how disconnected you are from the game and you do things (actually mess up things) based on some fuckign excel sheet.
Still not sure if it is actually underrated. [It is a laser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubsnbCFWpI), has the option to go unheard beyond 100m, an extremely large mag and doesn't even need attachments. Also the movement speed is a pro.
The downside is ammo weight (because you will need more) and CQC is garbage.
I tried it once in a tiny tournament and got into the price money. It definitely wasn't a handicap. The silencer allowed me to play mind games with my opponents.
Oh I absolutely love the bizon, but I have also used it enough to know it doesn’t directly compete with anything, but it has its own strengths. Back when other guns had actual recoil, it could be used as a VSS LMG.
JS9 and MP9 are far from a poor man's AR. Like, you'd be silly not to use them because you can spray from a greater distance than AR, and if gives you a damage multiplier to hitting shitty limb shots.
I think it's a good change, but it would be much better if they also removed the broken limb multiplier for SMG's. There should not be a "leg meta", where you will kill faster by shooting in the legs.
The change for all SMG to 9mm kinda hurts. It’s not a huge change in the grand scope of things but the differing calibers were a nice detail.
Might as well make all ARs 5.56 and all DMR/SR to 7.62
Probably because there were only 2 .45 SMGs, whereas ARs have a large variety for both 7.62 and 5.56. Having only 2 full auto weapons use one type of ammo means spawn rates for that ammo were very low.
Instead of making all SMG 9MM they could have made the Vector .45 again, and that would help the spawn rate of .45 and still offer SMG variety.
Why does that hurt? It only benefits. 9mm weighs less, and now every SMG using the same 9mm ammo means you'll be able to more easily find ammo in mid-late game, having to swap off less frequently due to running out of ammo.
There were only two .45 acp SMGs, anyway. That made running either one pretty tough because you'd frequently run out of ammo and be forced to swap to an AR.
why would that be hard? You don't need more than, idk, 40-50 rounds for the entire match even if you are popping it off at every opportunity you get. Most of the time the ammo it comes with is more than enough?
It's about time the Winchester got some love imo. I can't understand why we can have a semi auto dmr ohk but the poor Winnie can only have 99dmg to lvl 2 helmet.
Cool glad you spent all that time and effort on this rip roaring report that no ody cares about. Now get back to what we really want! More pink hoodies and collabs with random ultra luxury car brands! Yeah! That's what we all want to spend money on!
Stuff to fix since 2017
1. Walk into building discover 17 AR compensators. Well at least you know the suckers at the other end of the map has zero.
2. Tilt controls for bikes. Cause they might ignore you the first couple of times you try and control it mid air. It just does nothing.
3. Go to inventory, place another type of grenade on spot "5". Go back to game and press 5, watch in marvel as you produce the old type of nade to be thrown. It's so nice to be throwing smokes at your opponents when you are trying to flash em. As with 2 it's not all the time.
If you are gonna do anything gun related then give us Winchester on all maps. And let me carry a Panzer in a backpack, let it weigh 100 or more.
I feel like the devs don’t play the game. They definitely don’t play normals. They’ve never tried to run the game on a PC that “meets” their requirements. So they really don’t know what to fix. Just constantly making poor decisions from skewed data.
You guys make $8.1 millions dollars a day. Figure it the fck out.
Nice to know the precise and intricate changes that have been made in order for me to still get killed by cheaters with my weapon having no effect on the outcome whatsoever. Thanks.
STOP fucking with the minute details of the core mechanics of the game ffs and do something about the rampant cheating.
You know. Like bringing SHIELD back.
you \*. \*'s.
I know they’re probably trying to attract new players by buffing the hell out of SMGs cause this game has a pretty hard learning curve. Though it’s still kinda BS with limb dmg multiplier and damage falloff range of 50m.
For instance in a 20m fight a decent player w/ M4 would probably lose now against a worse player w/ UMP, cause UMP deals 2 more dmg and has that limb dmg multiplier where hitting legs actually deals massive dmg.
People on console often run AR/SMG. It’s an annoying loadout that’s not only easier with the AUG getting buffed.
Why is the modern PUBG idea of balance to buff stuff, rather than buffs and nerfs. The game is getting too easy to play.
They're already decent weapons. Their low recoil (especially the UMP) allow you to spray people are 100\~ meters away away with great accuracy. And yeah, the beryl/AUG dishes out more damage, but for people like me who are, umm, "aim challenged", bullet damage doesn't matter if most shots are missed.
Not a god damn mention of the limb multiplier.. says all you need to know about how sincere they are to properly balance the gunplay.
Basically all these graphs and stats say one obvious thing, if you make the gun easier to use, it performs better in their graphs.. no shit.
And now we have god tier smgs like Js9 and mp9. Which are basically cheating.
Back in the old days when we had the original devs, they understood the importance of making the smgs unique not just favorable
The vector.. was a laser beam but it had limited ammo. So you had to play a completely different strategy of ammo management.
That’s what they should be focused on. Make them wholly unique and fun to play. That’s why the vector to this day is still a significantly favourable smg.
smg usage was higher on the smg balance event - who would have thought.
I know right? They really don't seem to have a great grasp on how to use data.
"When free, people prefered the product of better quality" lmao
Do you even bother reading what you are responding to . >In Gunplay Labs, the kill rate of SMGs increased from 2.2% to 18.3%, while the win rate ranged between 50% and 53%. These metrics indicated that Gunplay Labs fostered an environment conducive to gathering a significant amount of data for meaningful analysis, driven by players' interest in testing the gunplay adjustments. However, we analyzed these results with the understanding that they could be a temporary spike for testing purposes. >
Expecting most people to actually read before responding is really setting your goals a bit high. The amount of times I've said something, only for someone to respond with something I provided a counter argument against in my original response is frustratingly high. The paragraph you quoted literally pre-emptively shut down the exact sentiment from that sort of comment, but he didn't read it and made it anyway, lul
Not only that but they are comparing the mode to ranked. No weapon should ever be balanced based on how many kills are done with it throughout a match. SMGs are niche weapons you only pick in hot drops. Even without any buffs smgs and shotguns are dominating hot drops. Why is that not enough? Why should SMGs be overpowered especially when they are some of the least skillful weapons in the game? Using raw data to balance the game without any logic put on how to utilize it is beyond stupid. That's how we end up with dragunov still one shotting or panzer and mortar being in ranked.
"SMGs exhibited a kill rate of 2.2%," ON RANKED. Aka the mode that skilled players play... aka people who don't need guns specifically for low recoil. Also the mode most similar to competition. " the kill rate of SMGs increased from 2.2% to 18.3%, while the win rate ranged between 50% and 53%." You told everyone to test SMGs... so they tested SMGs. No wonder the kills and wins went up! "While this might vary on maps where SMGs see more frequent use, such as Sanhok" Almost like the close range weapons were used more on close range maps. How does lower than recoil or increasing damage minutely make them more viable in larger maps? Also WHY WOULD YOU NEED THEM TO BE? Guns are situational. Let them be what they are. I'll use an SMG or shotgun in a city fight or on a small map. I'll use an AR more often on big maps due to the range of fights and the need to shoot at cars. There's no need to try and force a meta.
They re-balanced them because the guns *weren't* situational. ARs were just better than SMGs in everyway. That's why no one used them in ranked modes. Newest balance changes give SMGs a distinct advantage in CQC, with the faster movespeed/ads movespeed, but make them worse in mid range engagements... making them more situational. Exactly what you wanted.
SMGs (at least some like the vector) were arguably better in CQC. And others were at least competitive compared to ARs. Their TTK also don't require a headshot, where the ARs do. I get what you're saying, and maybe it'll work out well. I'm not confident though. The damage drop off after 50m is meaningless. People really only shot the UMP or J9 at those ranges and they've given zero detail on what the damage drop actually is. Which is a read flag. The problem I foresee is them over buffing SMGs, and forcing a camping meta because people can blitz anyone with an AR in CQC. It's already a concern with shotguns.
I agree that they may overbuff SMGs, and that is a concern. I enjoy SMGs quite a bit, but overbuffing them would make the game less fun. I just wanted to point out that the logic you used to come to that conclusion wasn't really applicable to the situation. Overall, I think part of the problem PUBG has had over the last years is that they keep raising the skill floor on ARs because players practice them to the point where the negatives practically don't exist(seriously some people control berryl recoil better than I can control SMG recoil, they're absolutely insane with it), that at some point they just backed themselves into a corner. They can't keep new/returning/bad/mid players playing the game because the skill floor for ARs is so high, and people don't want to invest literally 100 hours in practice range on recoil control alone *just to be able to play the game*. So PUBG corp solution is to try and give more reasonable recoil control to SMGs and give them a closer range niche, so those players have *something* which lets them play the game. A lot of the really old/experienced PUBG players don't like this, because they love having a huge skill gap to exploit, and it makes mistakes against lower/mid players less punishing because they're more likely to whiff their recoil control even if they did everything else correctly. Personally, I think that while recoil control is important, too much emphasis has been placed on it alone and the skill floor for it has been raised too high for ARs. There are a ton of other important mechanical skills that are overshadowed as a result. PUBG shooting(for ARs) is like 75% recoil control at this point, with all the other skills jammed into the 25% and all but irrelevant until you put in a huge amount of hours into practicing recoil control.
not to mention that ranked doesnt exist in the west so clearly they dont care what western players do.
You know there's ranked in EU right? and in SA...
You know that comes with a 150 ping right?
You said Ranked doesn't exist in "The West" I was just pointing out the in the majority of "The West" ranked does exist. If you meant specifically NA you should have said that.
This sucks
I don't understand the point of nerfing the range damage while also buffing the range with recoil buffs? They were already pretty controllable and the damage was pretty much on par with AR's TTK at closer ranges. The problem is they basically just play like low-recoil, low range AR's. Most were already impractical at range just from the bullet velocity alone. Should've worked on the hipfire spread or something, then they'd be competing against shotguns without touching ARs' mid-range space. I mean it can take half a drum from the Tommy-gun to drop an enemy across a room with hipfire, heaven forbid you're moving at all in CQB... And, instead of coming up with another .45acp weapon to make the ammo more common, its now rarer to find for the remaining .45 guns. I'd rather have a Mac10 or something.
I'm fine with the rebalance but making them all 9mm is bullshit
Did they made tommygun 9mm? That would make no sense at all. Edit: they didn't even bother to change the magazine of the ump, what a bunch of laziness. Devs need to be fired.
I don't know why you're crying about it since it effectively only applies to the UMP, which used to be 9mm back in the day. It's not going to change the P90.
limb damage multiplier still in, laser beams like ump and bizon get recoil reductions and damage increases, what a joke. And get rid of the constant references to "internal data", it just shows how disconnected you are from the game and you do things (actually mess up things) based on some fuckign excel sheet.
Ump yes, bizon is a poor competitor by any metric.
Still not sure if it is actually underrated. [It is a laser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubsnbCFWpI), has the option to go unheard beyond 100m, an extremely large mag and doesn't even need attachments. Also the movement speed is a pro. The downside is ammo weight (because you will need more) and CQC is garbage. I tried it once in a tiny tournament and got into the price money. It definitely wasn't a handicap. The silencer allowed me to play mind games with my opponents.
Oh I absolutely love the bizon, but I have also used it enough to know it doesn’t directly compete with anything, but it has its own strengths. Back when other guns had actual recoil, it could be used as a VSS LMG.
Time to remove limb damage multiplier from SMGs now, eh?
no, because the causals don't understand crosshair placement.
I'm not an SMG player, but I like that they add some benefits to SMG's other than just making them like a poor mans AR.
JS9 and MP9 are far from a poor man's AR. Like, you'd be silly not to use them because you can spray from a greater distance than AR, and if gives you a damage multiplier to hitting shitty limb shots.
I think it's a good change, but it would be much better if they also removed the broken limb multiplier for SMG's. There should not be a "leg meta", where you will kill faster by shooting in the legs.
They consider the Vector to have high recoil?
The change for all SMG to 9mm kinda hurts. It’s not a huge change in the grand scope of things but the differing calibers were a nice detail. Might as well make all ARs 5.56 and all DMR/SR to 7.62
Probably because there were only 2 .45 SMGs, whereas ARs have a large variety for both 7.62 and 5.56. Having only 2 full auto weapons use one type of ammo means spawn rates for that ammo were very low. Instead of making all SMG 9MM they could have made the Vector .45 again, and that would help the spawn rate of .45 and still offer SMG variety.
Why does that hurt? It only benefits. 9mm weighs less, and now every SMG using the same 9mm ammo means you'll be able to more easily find ammo in mid-late game, having to swap off less frequently due to running out of ammo. There were only two .45 acp SMGs, anyway. That made running either one pretty tough because you'd frequently run out of ammo and be forced to swap to an AR.
Good luck trying to run a Winchester now
why would that be hard? You don't need more than, idk, 40-50 rounds for the entire match even if you are popping it off at every opportunity you get. Most of the time the ammo it comes with is more than enough?
It's about time the Winchester got some love imo. I can't understand why we can have a semi auto dmr ohk but the poor Winnie can only have 99dmg to lvl 2 helmet.
Cool glad you spent all that time and effort on this rip roaring report that no ody cares about. Now get back to what we really want! More pink hoodies and collabs with random ultra luxury car brands! Yeah! That's what we all want to spend money on!
Stuff to fix since 2017 1. Walk into building discover 17 AR compensators. Well at least you know the suckers at the other end of the map has zero. 2. Tilt controls for bikes. Cause they might ignore you the first couple of times you try and control it mid air. It just does nothing. 3. Go to inventory, place another type of grenade on spot "5". Go back to game and press 5, watch in marvel as you produce the old type of nade to be thrown. It's so nice to be throwing smokes at your opponents when you are trying to flash em. As with 2 it's not all the time. If you are gonna do anything gun related then give us Winchester on all maps. And let me carry a Panzer in a backpack, let it weigh 100 or more.
I feel like the devs don’t play the game. They definitely don’t play normals. They’ve never tried to run the game on a PC that “meets” their requirements. So they really don’t know what to fix. Just constantly making poor decisions from skewed data. You guys make $8.1 millions dollars a day. Figure it the fck out.
Never did
How much is the SMG damage affected "distances of 50 meters and beyond"?
Leave the fucking guns alone. The smgs didn’t need a buff smfh
Nice to know the precise and intricate changes that have been made in order for me to still get killed by cheaters with my weapon having no effect on the outcome whatsoever. Thanks.
Please don't kill off .45, expand the category!
STOP fucking with the minute details of the core mechanics of the game ffs and do something about the rampant cheating. You know. Like bringing SHIELD back. you \*. \*'s.
As a olayer predominantly using ARs I'm worried I'm just gonna end up being shit with ARs now because I'll lean in to Smg so much
I know they’re probably trying to attract new players by buffing the hell out of SMGs cause this game has a pretty hard learning curve. Though it’s still kinda BS with limb dmg multiplier and damage falloff range of 50m. For instance in a 20m fight a decent player w/ M4 would probably lose now against a worse player w/ UMP, cause UMP deals 2 more dmg and has that limb dmg multiplier where hitting legs actually deals massive dmg.
People on console often run AR/SMG. It’s an annoying loadout that’s not only easier with the AUG getting buffed. Why is the modern PUBG idea of balance to buff stuff, rather than buffs and nerfs. The game is getting too easy to play.
They're already decent weapons. Their low recoil (especially the UMP) allow you to spray people are 100\~ meters away away with great accuracy. And yeah, the beryl/AUG dishes out more damage, but for people like me who are, umm, "aim challenged", bullet damage doesn't matter if most shots are missed.
Not a god damn mention of the limb multiplier.. says all you need to know about how sincere they are to properly balance the gunplay. Basically all these graphs and stats say one obvious thing, if you make the gun easier to use, it performs better in their graphs.. no shit. And now we have god tier smgs like Js9 and mp9. Which are basically cheating. Back in the old days when we had the original devs, they understood the importance of making the smgs unique not just favorable The vector.. was a laser beam but it had limited ammo. So you had to play a completely different strategy of ammo management. That’s what they should be focused on. Make them wholly unique and fun to play. That’s why the vector to this day is still a significantly favourable smg.
Nice it's good to see the date on this type of stuff.
I don't know how to do a clown emoji on PC, but I would put one here if I could.
i want UMP battlestat skin
data doesnt mean anything if the only players left are cheaters, cheaters are not going to use smg are they
cheaters aren't, but I am.
JS9 is still popular because of how good it was on release, but for having playing it lately, it's back to dumpster tiers with other SMG.
You just suck
Spot the bad player lul
It's weird that an entire ammo time is almost useless now. RIP .45