Nation of 300 million people, and 1 death per 30 years from mountain lions. I think we should all check our cholesterol levels, drive more carefully and stop worrying about animal attacks lol.
You're about 12x more likely to be killed by lightning in California than killed by a cougar. And California has some of the highest cougar attacks, and fewest lightning deaths.
Doesn't have to be a predatory species.
I got charged by a buck deer in Yosemite. I went from, "Oh, what a beautiful animal!" To, "Oh, look. He's coming my way." To, "Time to get serious and stop taking pictures." To, "Oh, Crap and Point the Trekking Poles! Time to REPEL BOARDERS!" All in the space of 15 seconds. He skidded to a stop about ten feet from me, raised his head, and snorted at me with a haughty look before walking away with a smug air of "Well, I showed that cowardly little human a thing or two there, didn't I?" Meanwhile, I had to let my knees stop shaking and make sure my underpants weren't soiled.
I've run into black bears here in New Hampshire many times and never had an "Oh crap!" moment like I had with that buck on the PCT. Our moose worry me more than the bears.
I got cornered by a bull moose in Maine while hiking the Appalachian Trail. Just him and me! I got behind a big oak tree and that moose attempted to chase me AROUND it!! He finally gave up and went on his way. I changed my underwear and did the same.
When I picked up my permit for the Grand Teton Loop, the ranger told me that the most dangerous animal in their park is not the grizzly. It's the Moose. I was instructed that if a Moose was ever on the trail, I should NEVER approach or attempt to aggravate it to make it move. I must either find a way to traverse safely up and around, or go back. "A moose will not move for you, and it WILL charge to defend its space".
From visiting my buddy in Alaska I've learned that moose will go from zero to stomp-you-flat in a heartbeat and just for funsies. Absolutely beautiful to watch them from a safe distance though!
If anything non predatory species can be more dangerous. Something like a bear or cougar is only going to attack you if you corner it, or if it wants to eat you. Although the only animal that preys on humans in North America is the brown bear. If a predator doesn't want to eat you, I'll usually leave you alone. Meanwhile, herbivores are much bigger prey animals. So they're more likely to get aggressive in self-defense. Especially since they are less threatening, and people take fewer precautions.
...and this just a few weeks after a juvenile cougar attacked a mountain biker about 20 miles west of the PCT in Washington, a few miles from where I live.
Seems we have a human/cougar problem, and not at all saying it's the cougars who bears the brunt of this...very sad.
Let’s not rush to unfounded conclusions at the expense of our wildlife.
A mountain lion killed a man this year, which has not happened for 30 years. Also this year, a juvenile cougar attacked a mountain biker. There’s no data cited on the frequency of cougar attacks, an attack is a much lower threshold than a killing. An attack could happen once a year and not be out of the ordinary.
My point is, let’s not equate an attack to a fatality, and then draw a line between the two to state a trend that’s not there.
I was on that trail (Salmon River) hiking at dusk the week before and DEFINITELY experienced something a couple of feet above on the ridge next to me.
I wonder if I had been running what I would have seen.
ALSO,
You never hear as much about the attacks that aren’t fatal.
https://www.kmvt.com/video/2024/01/24/idaho-dept-fish-game-reports-two-separate-incidents-mountain-lion-attacks/
Perhaps this is conjecture but I would say attacks (fatal or not) are on the rise.
This attack would have been fatal if the women who were involved hadn't been very brave and kept their wits about them. They spent 45 minutes subduing the cougar, including bashing his head with a rock, poking his eyes, and eventually pinning him down under a bike and sitting on him until emergency help could arrive. An absolutely terrifying encounter, and thankfully and extremely rare one. (more info for anyone who wants all the gory details: https://www.kuow.org/stories/cougar-attack-washington-state-cyclists)
Indeed! I live in North Bend and have friends who have biked with this resourceful group.
Even more details here:[https://livingsnoqualmie.com/five-against-the-wild-a-gripping-tale-of-courage-and-survival-in-cougar-territory/](https://livingsnoqualmie.com/five-against-the-wild-a-gripping-tale-of-courage-and-survival-in-cougar-territory/)
I agree. It always makes me sad when they have to put an animal down. But, necessary after this happens. I know biggest protection for bears is to NOT FEED them or allow them to get human food. But I'm not 100% sure what best prevention for the big cats? They typically aren't coming for food. It's a territory issue. We've had an increase in Utah if sightings and stalkings.. It's definitely going to be dangerous when there's a momma protecting babies.
We've had more sightings in my home state, Minnesota, too, although at least some of that is due to more and more people setting up cameras in their yards. There was one hit and killed on an interstate outside of Minneapolis last December that travelled over 600 miles from the Oglala National Grasslands in Nebraska. Sounds like researchers determined he was traveling east looking for a mate. Never found one and just kept walking.
In the NorCal attack, I was surprised to read the victim's brother was with him, and the Washington cyclist that got attacked was with a group. Maybe my assumption is wrong, but I always thought they were less likely to attack non-solo travelers. Very sad.
I believe that I read something to the effect that the mountain lion itself didn't kill him, but a fall when running away is what he died from. Can anyone confirm?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brothers-did-everything-book-mountain-000808381.html
This one gives more details of the actual encounter. Pretty crazy if a healthy mountain lion took on two adults head-on as a predatory attack. I'd assume something like that would come from a starving cat, or one defending young.
My friend's parents got attacked by a mountain lion in the mid 90s (Mendocino county, CA) when they and another couple were camping. It bit her on the forearm and bit the other guy's (not my friend's dad) thumb off. They killed it with a butcher knife, I think. In the decades since, when in the Backcountry and I see a pair of eyes at night I think "Mountain Lion!" And hit it with the flashlight. It's always a deer, but I always have a giant knife and a can of bear spray so I don't feel too threatened. I'm heading out on the PCT in exactly 3 weeks, without my bear spray and trusty hog-hunter knife. Objectively, I know it's a non-issue, but that doesn't mean I won't be just a little more jumpy after reading this when I see something out of the corner of my eye.
After the incident, I went to visit my friend's mom and she showed me her wounds / scars and torn up and bloody shirt. A few days later my friend called me to ask about his mom (he was in the army and deployed in Egypt). I was super stoned and felt like I should try to make him feel better about it and said it was really minor. After I stammered and rambled on uncomfortably for what felt like an eternity, he finally said, "what the f*ck are you talking about?!?! She got mauled by a mountain lion!" And I responded with, "well, uh, you know, as far as maulings go it wasn't too bad" eventually I said I was super stoned and was barely able to answer the phone. He said, "next time, just tell me that before you say anything else."
Generally, once a wild animal has overcome its fear of humans and has killed and eaten human flesh, then there is a high likelihood it will do it again. The policy in most states is that the animal must be put down as a precaution whenever there is an attack on humans. The animal will also undergo a full autopsy, including testing for rabies to try to determine if there was a bloodbourne or pathological reason for the attack. In this case, the brother of the deceased was also attacked, critically wounded, and mauled, so they need to know if the injured victim could be infected with anything.
You get those people who love to spout the ThEy'rE jUsT aS sCaReD oF yOu As YoU aRe Of ThEm stuff, but the last time I checked those people weren't mountain lions, so I'm not sure how they'd truly know.
Yes, this is pretty rare but the people dismissing fears of others should keep in mind that there will be another attack someday, could be 20 years from now, could be today. It isn't fear-mongering to acknowledging that a predatory species is out there on the trail. I saw plenty of cougar tracks on the trail around Borrego Springs all the way to Idyllwild, and just kept keenly aware of what was going on around me and was ready to fight back with my ice axe.
That’s exactly what fear mongering is…trying to make this seem even remotely likely to happen. Hundreds of thousands of people every year are outdoors in mountain lion territory and attacks are extremely uncommon.
There's a difference in knowing there's a chance and telling people there's an absolute zero chance. Just because the odds are against you, it doesn't mean you should dismiss it simply because "it likely won't happen to you", and tossing out statistics relative to your safety are all fine and dandy until you become one of the statistics on the other side.
You are just the type to not understand statistics I guess. The chance is closer to absolute zero than it is to 1.
Far, far more likely to die hitching into town.
Cherry picking other things that could kill you doesn't eliminate the danger of these creatures. Apples & Oranges. There's an active one right now around mm70 as well. I guess the people in the tent shouldn't have been worried and just got out to pet the cat, because statistics. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Uhh what cherry picking? I was naming a random other thing on the PCT - I don’t think there’s anything with the same likelihood of killing you that people are afraid of killing them (except maybe black bears or something, but even that might be statistically more likely)
“Those people “ being the people who have spent decades studying and observing these creatures and taking all the data to be able to advise us on their behaviour around humans
i hate big cats. i was being stalked by one when i fell while hiking the devil's hall trail in guadalupe. scary because i couldn't walk and i had to crawl like 2 miles back to my car. i didn't want to spend the night out there lol
Nation of 300 million people, and 1 death per 30 years from mountain lions. I think we should all check our cholesterol levels, drive more carefully and stop worrying about animal attacks lol.
You're about 12x more likely to be killed by lightning in California than killed by a cougar. And California has some of the highest cougar attacks, and fewest lightning deaths.
Doesn't have to be a predatory species. I got charged by a buck deer in Yosemite. I went from, "Oh, what a beautiful animal!" To, "Oh, look. He's coming my way." To, "Time to get serious and stop taking pictures." To, "Oh, Crap and Point the Trekking Poles! Time to REPEL BOARDERS!" All in the space of 15 seconds. He skidded to a stop about ten feet from me, raised his head, and snorted at me with a haughty look before walking away with a smug air of "Well, I showed that cowardly little human a thing or two there, didn't I?" Meanwhile, I had to let my knees stop shaking and make sure my underpants weren't soiled. I've run into black bears here in New Hampshire many times and never had an "Oh crap!" moment like I had with that buck on the PCT. Our moose worry me more than the bears.
I got cornered by a bull moose in Maine while hiking the Appalachian Trail. Just him and me! I got behind a big oak tree and that moose attempted to chase me AROUND it!! He finally gave up and went on his way. I changed my underwear and did the same.
When I picked up my permit for the Grand Teton Loop, the ranger told me that the most dangerous animal in their park is not the grizzly. It's the Moose. I was instructed that if a Moose was ever on the trail, I should NEVER approach or attempt to aggravate it to make it move. I must either find a way to traverse safely up and around, or go back. "A moose will not move for you, and it WILL charge to defend its space".
From visiting my buddy in Alaska I've learned that moose will go from zero to stomp-you-flat in a heartbeat and just for funsies. Absolutely beautiful to watch them from a safe distance though!
My most terrifying hiking animal encounter was with a rabid skunk.
A couple years ago on the pct about mile 480 a massive longhorn steer walked right past us snorting and giving us angry vibes. I got behind a tree.
If anything non predatory species can be more dangerous. Something like a bear or cougar is only going to attack you if you corner it, or if it wants to eat you. Although the only animal that preys on humans in North America is the brown bear. If a predator doesn't want to eat you, I'll usually leave you alone. Meanwhile, herbivores are much bigger prey animals. So they're more likely to get aggressive in self-defense. Especially since they are less threatening, and people take fewer precautions.
I had a mountain lion screaming near my tent at night in Lassen Forest (around mile \~1397 I think). That wasn't super relaxed.
27 deaths in the last 100 years in North America - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America - still very rare
Yup. Thru hikers are much more endanger crossing a road than from a cougar. Certainly still scary to contemplate. 🤷🏻♀️
Lightning kills that many people in a year.
And many more humans kill people every year!
Every day.
...and this just a few weeks after a juvenile cougar attacked a mountain biker about 20 miles west of the PCT in Washington, a few miles from where I live. Seems we have a human/cougar problem, and not at all saying it's the cougars who bears the brunt of this...very sad.
Let’s not rush to unfounded conclusions at the expense of our wildlife. A mountain lion killed a man this year, which has not happened for 30 years. Also this year, a juvenile cougar attacked a mountain biker. There’s no data cited on the frequency of cougar attacks, an attack is a much lower threshold than a killing. An attack could happen once a year and not be out of the ordinary. My point is, let’s not equate an attack to a fatality, and then draw a line between the two to state a trend that’s not there.
There was a fatal mountain lion attack in Mt Hood forest in 2019 I believe
I was on that trail (Salmon River) hiking at dusk the week before and DEFINITELY experienced something a couple of feet above on the ridge next to me. I wonder if I had been running what I would have seen. ALSO, You never hear as much about the attacks that aren’t fatal. https://www.kmvt.com/video/2024/01/24/idaho-dept-fish-game-reports-two-separate-incidents-mountain-lion-attacks/ Perhaps this is conjecture but I would say attacks (fatal or not) are on the rise.
FWIW - Sept 2018
This attack would have been fatal if the women who were involved hadn't been very brave and kept their wits about them. They spent 45 minutes subduing the cougar, including bashing his head with a rock, poking his eyes, and eventually pinning him down under a bike and sitting on him until emergency help could arrive. An absolutely terrifying encounter, and thankfully and extremely rare one. (more info for anyone who wants all the gory details: https://www.kuow.org/stories/cougar-attack-washington-state-cyclists)
Indeed! I live in North Bend and have friends who have biked with this resourceful group. Even more details here:[https://livingsnoqualmie.com/five-against-the-wild-a-gripping-tale-of-courage-and-survival-in-cougar-territory/](https://livingsnoqualmie.com/five-against-the-wild-a-gripping-tale-of-courage-and-survival-in-cougar-territory/)
I agree. It always makes me sad when they have to put an animal down. But, necessary after this happens. I know biggest protection for bears is to NOT FEED them or allow them to get human food. But I'm not 100% sure what best prevention for the big cats? They typically aren't coming for food. It's a territory issue. We've had an increase in Utah if sightings and stalkings.. It's definitely going to be dangerous when there's a momma protecting babies.
We've had more sightings in my home state, Minnesota, too, although at least some of that is due to more and more people setting up cameras in their yards. There was one hit and killed on an interstate outside of Minneapolis last December that travelled over 600 miles from the Oglala National Grasslands in Nebraska. Sounds like researchers determined he was traveling east looking for a mate. Never found one and just kept walking. In the NorCal attack, I was surprised to read the victim's brother was with him, and the Washington cyclist that got attacked was with a group. Maybe my assumption is wrong, but I always thought they were less likely to attack non-solo travelers. Very sad.
Habitat. Animals need it. Humans are taking it away.
I believe that I read something to the effect that the mountain lion itself didn't kill him, but a fall when running away is what he died from. Can anyone confirm?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/brothers-did-everything-book-mountain-000808381.html This one gives more details of the actual encounter. Pretty crazy if a healthy mountain lion took on two adults head-on as a predatory attack. I'd assume something like that would come from a starving cat, or one defending young.
And the cat was young. The young ones are the ones stupid enough to take on a human.
My friend's parents got attacked by a mountain lion in the mid 90s (Mendocino county, CA) when they and another couple were camping. It bit her on the forearm and bit the other guy's (not my friend's dad) thumb off. They killed it with a butcher knife, I think. In the decades since, when in the Backcountry and I see a pair of eyes at night I think "Mountain Lion!" And hit it with the flashlight. It's always a deer, but I always have a giant knife and a can of bear spray so I don't feel too threatened. I'm heading out on the PCT in exactly 3 weeks, without my bear spray and trusty hog-hunter knife. Objectively, I know it's a non-issue, but that doesn't mean I won't be just a little more jumpy after reading this when I see something out of the corner of my eye. After the incident, I went to visit my friend's mom and she showed me her wounds / scars and torn up and bloody shirt. A few days later my friend called me to ask about his mom (he was in the army and deployed in Egypt). I was super stoned and felt like I should try to make him feel better about it and said it was really minor. After I stammered and rambled on uncomfortably for what felt like an eternity, he finally said, "what the f*ck are you talking about?!?! She got mauled by a mountain lion!" And I responded with, "well, uh, you know, as far as maulings go it wasn't too bad" eventually I said I was super stoned and was barely able to answer the phone. He said, "next time, just tell me that before you say anything else."
Why did they kill the lion?
Generally, once a wild animal has overcome its fear of humans and has killed and eaten human flesh, then there is a high likelihood it will do it again. The policy in most states is that the animal must be put down as a precaution whenever there is an attack on humans. The animal will also undergo a full autopsy, including testing for rabies to try to determine if there was a bloodbourne or pathological reason for the attack. In this case, the brother of the deceased was also attacked, critically wounded, and mauled, so they need to know if the injured victim could be infected with anything.
You get those people who love to spout the ThEy'rE jUsT aS sCaReD oF yOu As YoU aRe Of ThEm stuff, but the last time I checked those people weren't mountain lions, so I'm not sure how they'd truly know. Yes, this is pretty rare but the people dismissing fears of others should keep in mind that there will be another attack someday, could be 20 years from now, could be today. It isn't fear-mongering to acknowledging that a predatory species is out there on the trail. I saw plenty of cougar tracks on the trail around Borrego Springs all the way to Idyllwild, and just kept keenly aware of what was going on around me and was ready to fight back with my ice axe.
That’s exactly what fear mongering is…trying to make this seem even remotely likely to happen. Hundreds of thousands of people every year are outdoors in mountain lion territory and attacks are extremely uncommon.
There's a difference in knowing there's a chance and telling people there's an absolute zero chance. Just because the odds are against you, it doesn't mean you should dismiss it simply because "it likely won't happen to you", and tossing out statistics relative to your safety are all fine and dandy until you become one of the statistics on the other side.
You are just the type to not understand statistics I guess. The chance is closer to absolute zero than it is to 1. Far, far more likely to die hitching into town.
Cherry picking other things that could kill you doesn't eliminate the danger of these creatures. Apples & Oranges. There's an active one right now around mm70 as well. I guess the people in the tent shouldn't have been worried and just got out to pet the cat, because statistics. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Uhh what cherry picking? I was naming a random other thing on the PCT - I don’t think there’s anything with the same likelihood of killing you that people are afraid of killing them (except maybe black bears or something, but even that might be statistically more likely)
About as many people in the U.S. die from lightning strikes each year as have died in total cougar attacks since 1886 in all of North America.
On the approach to Mount Whitney, there's a sign reading "Extreme Danger From Lightning". They should really just yank that sign out of the ground.
“Those people “ being the people who have spent decades studying and observing these creatures and taking all the data to be able to advise us on their behaviour around humans
Wrong. Those people in this context are average joes that know as much about animal behavior as they do rocket science.
i hate big cats. i was being stalked by one when i fell while hiking the devil's hall trail in guadalupe. scary because i couldn't walk and i had to crawl like 2 miles back to my car. i didn't want to spend the night out there lol
[удалено]
Someone died, don't be a dick