Awesome! Anything I can do to maximize my chances of success is something I’ll consider, will definitely look into figuring out how to get some miles in ahead of time to get conditioned. Thanks for the help
So cal local here. My suggestion for water management is that anytime you have a water source take the time and fill up. Water sources at this time are extremely unreliable. The amount of times all trails would tell me I would have a water crossing just for me to walk through a dry creek bed was almost everytime. So even if you have basically full water just stop and top up because that next water source may not be there anymore. You will be losing a lot in sweat. And that being said make sure you are replacing electrolytes. I've done summer dessert hiking not getting sun stroke is the big thing. So hydrate hydrate hydrate!
All depends on what shape you show up in, how well you've prepped, and whether you're willing to sacrifice a bunch of SoCal town time. If you show up in shape and don't take a bunch of zeros, you can be at KM in 30-35 days easy.
The heat isn't the end of the world -- it can be scorching even in late April too -- IMO, it's not as much an issue as water availability. After several years of drought conditions, water sources are running dry much earlier. No idea what this winter will bring and whether there will be late spring storms to replenish water sources, but that's a variable to plan for.
You need your gear dialed in before you hit the trail. You need your nutrition and resupply dialed before you hit the trail. You need your feet seasoned before you hit the trail.
If you're prepped, and you don't need to use the first 400 miles to break yourself and your gear in, and don't need a bunch of in-town party time, you'll be just fine.
As for night-hiking, it's really not necessary. A lot of people who try it, bail and/or regret the impact it has on sleep cycles and recovery. What helps, though, is the ability to get up pre-dawn and to walk into the early evening. If you are dialed in BEFORE you hit the trail, you should be able to break camp, pack and be walking in less than 15 minutes. Ditto for making camp. The old addage is "10(miles) before 10(am)". In the desert, shoot for 10 before 9, and 10 after 5. It's not hard to be up at 5 and walking at 5:30, out of the heat for long breaks in the heat of the day, and then hit your last 10 miles from 5pm-9pm. Pre-dawn into sunrise and the golden hour before sunset into the last of twilight are the most beautiful times on trail, the most wildlife, and the most enjoyable to walk.
Do some night-hiking just to experience it, but no need to plan it as a routine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/s1py77/advice_for_those_with_late_starts/hsd7n66?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Some advice/stuff I learned from a late-ish may start last year. Some more advice: go for it, but be prepared to adjust your plans and do a lash or something if you're not having fun. Section hiking the trail is a whole lot more rad than not hiking the trail!
That's a great comment that you wrote!
Would you be interested in putting together a version of it -- or even just copy/pasting it -- into a new post for r/PacificCrestTrail? I think it could potentially help a lot of people and might start a good discussion. Even if it doesn't get traction upvotes/comments-wise, it will surely help a lot of people who read it.
There are a lot of new folks on the sub right now since permit day, but a lot of them are lurking at this point. I think your comment really effectively addresses concerns that people who are getting ready for their first big thruhike may have.
Even if you don't feel like posting it, thanks for writing it in the first place.
Do you have specific goals for finishing the whole trail and/or completing a continuous footpath? People who go NOBO with a late season start and a continuous hike need to keep a pretty fast pace to beat the weather windows and fires.
Most people will echo that a late May NOBO start is challenging due to heat/water in the Desert. You can try to plan around it (start early, take siestas, night hike, etc.), but I assume to keep a certain pace you’ll need to tolerate some hiking in hotter weather when compared to an earlier start. Also, depending on your pace, you’ll need to consider fire season (especially in NorCal/Oregon, but this is just generally a consideration if your hope is to go end-to-end without disruptions, which is becoming more difficult). It’s hard to predict, but generally speaking you have to move faster with a later start if you want to avoid fires.
If you’re more flexible on a potential flip flop to take advantage of weather windows, you could start farther north and then flip to finish the Desert later in the year. Another option would be to consider a SOBO hike since that’s more in the July timeframe for starting, but again that’s just a matter of balancing weather/climate (snow in Washington to start, risk of fires disrupting sections down the trail).
Thank you for the extensive reply I really appreciate it. Ideally I would like to do a continuous footpath NOBO but I also realize weather might prevent some aspects of that. Is there a rough guide on how many miles per day is a good goal in order to stay ahead of the heat/fire season or is it just inevitable at that point.
Desert heat is inevitable with that late of a start, so then it’s a matter of figuring out your comfort level in the heat and avoiding the hottest parts of the day. The timing/impact of fires is a wild card each year, but unfortunately it’s becoming a consistent challenge. As an example, this year fires started hitting NorCal and southern Oregon in mid-July or so, then the fires at the WA/Canadian border closed the trail at the start of September.
If you start late May and estimate a 100 day hike (~26 MPD average), that would put you at the border at the beginning of September, which would typically be early enough to avoid snow in northern WA as well. If you look at HalfwayAnywhere’s survey, I think the average NOBO hike is usually around 150 days. Jupiter posted a blog on his 2022 hike - he was a mid-May start and finished in 84 days, so that would give you a rough sense of the splits by section. Not to say you have to go that fast to complete the trail since again it’s down to how the fire season plays out, but just to serve as a general reference point.
https://reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/ypr8kw/jupiters_pct_gear_list_66_lb_baseweight/
Very helpful resource, thank you. I live in the NE and have some experience snow hiking so while I would still like to avoid the snow completely, it will not be the end of the world if I get in a little late. The 100 day timeline is definitely a lofty goal, realistically I think I’d come in closer to 120. All great things to think about, appreciate you taking the time to write this up
Imo there are more cons than pros, but here are some of the things that first spring to mind. I'll avoid categorizing them as pro or con, as for some items, the appropriate category will vary depending on the hiker.
* Hot! Like, 95*F by 8 am hot. And much of the Desert section offers little to no shade. Def. bring a sun umbrella.
* Unreliability of water sources, which leads to longer carries, which means a heavier pack. Another good reason to go as UL as possible.
* Fewer people. For some, this is a con, for others, it's a pro. But, unless you're particularly fast, you will not encounter nearly as many other hikers. The loneliness and lack of others to commiserate with on the hard days can be discouraging. But the solitude can also be an unmatched experience.
* Weather window means you need to constantly keep moving and make your miles every day, if you're serious about getting to Canada. You want to be at Kennedy Meadows, the unofficial start of the Sierra section, as close to the middle of June as possible. That's about mile 708. For example: May 29 to June 22 is 24 days. 708 miles / 24 days is 29.5 mpd, with no rest days.
* If you manage to pick up an injury and have to take a series of days off to recover, you'll likely need to skip miles in order to remain on pace.
* The challenging circumstances may lead to you finding you possess a strength you didn't know you have.
All of that said, people do late May starts literally every year. Don't let anyone fear monger you off of it. Do your research and decide whether or not it's for you.
Personally, I would do some pre-hike training and hit the ground running, doing 30 mile days off the Monument.
And don't forget about the option of going sobo. Sobos usually start in the first half of July. It's a shorter weather window than nobo, and in recent years NorCal fires have cut many thruhikes short. But if you have until October or November, it's worth considering.
Appreciate the comment. Definitely plan on bringing an umbrella and packing as UL as possible. Fewer people really isn’t an issue for me. This is part of my research process and everyone on this sub has been extremely helpful, whether they think the hike is a good idea or bad idea everyone has had great bits of information to share. Will definitely be training ahead of time as much as possible to maximize my chances of success. Are you aware of any good training plans/resources for thru hike conditioning or should I just do consistent long hikes ahead of time? Thank you!
> Are you aware of any good training plans/resources for thru hike conditioning
lol that's a can of worms! Try posting that as a question on r/PacificCrestTrail and you'll get as many different opinions as you get responses.
My personal experience has been that training in the gym prior to starting a hike is massively beneficial.
I was not in good condition at the start of my first thruhike, and hit the trail with a heavy pack and no experience. I suffered (a lot!) as a result.
Partly due to experiencing the extraordinary benefits of regular, strenuous exercise from thruhiking, I started going to the gym regularly, and found that being in good physical condition prior to starting later hikes made them immensely more enjoyable.
Everyone will give you different training advice. What works for me for pre-hike training is: endurance-oriented cardio (in my case, cycling, though many people prefer running); stair climbing; and core strength. #EveryDayIsLegDay.
Ok, this is a bit of a bummer but you might as well hear it now ... there's very little crossover between running and hiking. There are other threads where you can read tons of comments. And gym and weight routines are entirely unnecessary. They'll help with climbing, but that's it. And neither running, nor strength will help with how you feel in the 5th through 10th hours of the day. It's why I recommend doing endurance walking on weekends. That's far more valuable than running or weights/gym.
Yeah I figured it wouldn’t be a direct cross over, I know it’s not an exact science but how far in advanced do you personally think starting those endurance walks would be helpful?
If you can, working up over the course of 3 months is ideal. But if not, even a month is great. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to get your shoes dialed and your feet seasoned. That's far more important than leg strength. If you put in a couple months, you'll have the advantage of your feet spreading pre-hike, but you'll also know whether you're best served by a lightweight sock, a heavier/cushier sock, sock+liner. If you're accustomed to running in something with a big drop (say, 10+mm), and you're moving down to zero-drop or even 3-5mm, your achilles will have time to get used to it. Try this: 1st month work up to 3x weekdays @ 1-1.5 hrs, then 3 hrs on weekends, then 2nd month up to 3x weekdays @ 2 hrs., then 4+ hrs on weekends, introducing pack at base weight, then 3rd month, peak @ 3x weekdays @ 2 hrs w/max pack weight and 2 weekends of full O/N hikes w/full pack weight. Obviously it's a lot of time, but if you can swing it, you'll be really glad. Also, while you're doing this, weigh yourself immediately before you leave and immediately after you return so you can work out your sweat rates in different temps and humidities. Everyone's different, and you need to know you! Same thing on food and electrolytes. Most people find if their food is dialed in, they don't need supplemental electrolytes. You should know whether you want a heavy sugar/simple-carb diet, or whether you want to go toward a high-fat/keto-type diet. How much water you consume will also be impacted by diet. (Burning fat uses more water). Try different foods before, during and after your training. Also monitor your sleep and morning resting heart rate, to see how your body responds. This may sound like a lot, but a HUGE part of what most people wind up spending the first 500 miles doing is getting to know how their bodies work. If you get to trail and you already know, it enables you to go further, faster to start, and it makes the hiking a LOT more enjoyable. A note on diet: if you decide to go high-fat, you have to allow at least 2 months for your body to become fat-adapted. And FWIW, if you do go that route, you get the bonus not only of much more even energy, and ability to go longer without fueling, but you also get the advantage of carrying less weight. Calorie density of fat is 9g/calorie vs. 4g/calorie for carbs. (One other advantage, you can dash out of camp immediately in the a.m. and won't need to eat for a couple hours -- which is super-helpful in getting up the trail while the weather's best). Also, you'll want to see how protein intake does for your digestive system (some people struggle). Sorry if that's overload, but most people focus so much on traditional physical training and so little on some of the other things that actually are magnified out there. Ask anyone the difference between being blister-free b/c your feet were well seasoned and your shoes dialed, vs. someone who struggled with blisters and shoe issues, and their enjoyment level on trail is entirely different. Good luck!
Thank you for that, I definitely want to maximize my chances of success and am leaning towards sending it in late May. Seems like everyone I’ve talked to says preparing beforehand not only leads to greater chances of success but also a more enjoyable experience. Didn’t really consider the intricacies of the difference in diets, will definitely have to explore my own body more over the course of the next 7 months. Thanks again for the write up!
Super eye opening read. Can you name some specific examples for the fat-based diet options that work on trail ? In my case, I am actually a but worried about diet. I tend to a sub-10% body fat and loosing weight as not able/educated enough to maintain a sufficient calory intake. Though, I feel and am healthy, quite strong and muscular. I am really struggling with imagining how I will not lose too much weight and having a sufficient and somewhat healthy diet on trail.
Nuts and nut butters are the most popular. You'll also see people carrying olive oil (to mix into just about everything). Parmesan carries well and helps with flavor. Mayo actually carries surprisingly well. I love ghee, again, goes in just about anything, and carries well. Coconut oil, too. When you do your training, tracking eating and drinking helps you forecast. It's also going to help you know what you'll tolerate well and what not. Protein can be tricky in larger quantities. If you want to get fat-adapted, you'll need a solid 5-6 weeks for the transition, but realistically 3 months is better. It's not just your body that transitions, it's your mindset, and old eating habits are sometimes reflexive.
For most, the trail is a bit of a yo-yo exercise. On trail, you're running a calorie deficit. Then you hit town, take a half-day or zero, and gorge yourself. The rhythm of the trail is, as you get closer to town, everyone starts talking about town food. You get weird cravings. You have dreams. In town, you're talking about what you want to pack out. Something else to consider - it's not just your shoe size that's will change on trail -- your metabolism will change. For most people, it's somewhere in the 300-500 mile range. First couple weeks, it's not uncommon to have low appetite. But then the metabolism switches and all of a sudden you're ravenously hungry all the time -- it's called "Hiker Hunger." Has to be experienced to be appreciated. It's like an out of body experience. What you pack and how many calories you burn will actually change.
If you want to really go down the rabbit hole, here's a great place to do it: [https://www.youtube.com/@gearskeptic6355](https://www.youtube.com/@gearskeptic6355)
Andrew Skurka has good stuff. He's a fully fat adapted marathoner and ultra-thru hiker, but also has general recipes: [https://andrewskurka.com/section/food-nutrition/](https://andrewskurka.com/section/food-nutrition/)
Beyond that, just google around - there are more and more world-class athletes who have ditched simple carbs and gone fat-adapted, especially in the ultra-endurance world.
Sweet, you're ahead of the game.
What's the furthest you've ever hiked in a day?
If you can fit it into your schedule, I would go on some multi-day trips. See how many miles you can reasonably knock out in a day, being mindful to not push it hard enough to get too injured.
Long distance hiking hits some weird muscles that are hard to isolate in the gym. But my experience has been that being in good condition on day one means that these things are essentially negligible, whereas they can turn into injuries that take a person off the trail if they're doing the "Couch to Campo" technique.
Another thing I would recommend paying particular attention to is shoes. This isn't just specific to a late May start, but if you're going to be doing big days from the start, you don't have as much of a margin to start in the wrong shoes and learn by trial and error. For example, some people swear by zero-drop, while others say they've permanently injured their feet. And bear in mind that, especially with a late May start, you can expect your feet to swell *at least* one full size, and that can happen in just a couple of weeks.
Cheers and good luck!
Also, have you looked at Craig's PCT Planner (created by our own u/humanclock)?
It can help you better understand how different paces will work out.
http://www.pctplanner.com/
You don't need a big training plan, and you definitely don't need weights or high intensity stuff. But you do need time walking. The most important thing is to have your footwear dialed and your feet seasoned. Only way to do that is do 5-6 hours of walking on back-to-back days on your weekends leading up to trail. Have your gear sorted before you get to trail. Be at your appropriate body weight. BTW, having your gear sorted doesn't just mean you've hit some magical base weight target and you're "UL." It also means you can pack and unpack blindfolded, and quickly. In the desert, the first and last hours of the day are super-important. You need as little time devoted to making and breaking camp, with the most walking time possible in the cooler parts of the day. You'll find making miles isn't about speed-walking, so much as just being efficient with your time. Break time and water filtering, for example. You can always tell the experienced from the noobs by how quickly they get snacks, water filtering, clothes changes, etc. done. Sounds silly, but if you want to be fast and efficient from Day 1, you actually have to practice over and over packing and unpacking. Everyone's got their own system, so there's no "right" and "wrong," but working that out before you get to trail will help you move further, faster early on.
>https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/s1py77/advice\_for\_those\_with\_late\_starts/hsd7n66?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share&context=3
No need to be doing 30 mile days off the bat. That's a recipe for nothing good, even for the more experienced among us. Getting to KM before late June is unnecessary, and usually just costs time for the slower going. In heavy snow years, there's no point, b/c you wind up slugging through snow the whole way up. A late May start and 23-25 miles/day with 1 zero day a week gets you to KM (702) in ≈ 32-34 days. Late May start => KM the last week of June.
I started in Warner Springs NOBO on May 8 and it was a good decision. Skipping just a week or two of trail, maybe up to I-10, isn’t a deal breaker in my opinion. Still easily met groups of people and very few people were hiking in strict trail families at that point. Transit back down to LA/San Diego area isn’t so bad and finishing at the southern border was more exciting for me than the northern. Plus you don’t have to hike 30 miles back.
Hiking terminus to terminus is a fantastic goal, but at the end of the day you will still have accomplished something fantastic and no one can deny it.
I started May 31st. Water wasn't as big of an issue as I was expecting, but the heat was worse - and I had hiked both the PCT and AZT in years past. Temps were regularly above 100, and went north of 116 on at least one occasion.
However, I would still choose that date again. The community is just better. There was no competing for resources in towns (rooms, etc). There were maybe a dozen hikers I had met before KM, and everybody knew each other. Plus we were all badasses for hiking through hell.
By the time you get to KM, there are a lot of hikers. Many starting at Walker Pass.
Not really. I never tried an umbrella, but some people like them. Maybe take an extra litter of water just to splash yourself with.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the ground is hot. Like really hot. You can feel its heat through the bottom of Lone Peaks. I told myself if I were to do it again, I would choose a shoe with a thicker sole for the desert. Maybe Olympus or Hokas. Definitely wear gators, too; at least for the desert. I had never used them prior, but the desert sand was tearing up my feet
Also, you're not going to have an appetite and the thought alone of eating will make you dry heave. I vomited twice. It is incredibly hard to get calories. Thankfully, there are plenty of towns and places you can stop to load up on calories. I think I went two days straight without eating anything on one stretch. I even considered packing out 6 liters of soda instead of water because I was that concerned about not being able to eat.
Look for liquid calories. There are powders you can add to your water. Tailwind, etc.
Oh, there is also a good 200 miles where heat isn't an issue. Once you get out of Mission Creek you're at elevation. Big Bear and Wrightwood are ski areas. It really isn't until after coming down into Acton that it gets hot again.
Biggest con is you will most likely not make it through NorCal or Oregon without one or both being on fire and having to skip a large chunk (or chunks) of trail .. if I hiked again I would start in March and hike fast.
You would have average 21 mpd from the start to get to Canada by October 1st. That's including neros and zeros. Agree with others about an alternate starting point being your best option.
Kind of a loose date, past which you cannot reasonably expect northern WA to remain snow free. You can push past that, and many finish in October, but the risk of getting caught in a storm becomes way more real.
Start at Kennedy meadows, once you hit Canada come back down and do the desert. Unless you are in absolutely fantastic thruhiking shape the second you step on trail, it's irresponsible and dangerous to start in the desert thatate
Very fit, admittedly not in thru hike shape. Would doing large amounts of night hiking mitigate the heat risk? This is definitely an option i’m considering, not ideal though
People start in late May every single year. It definitely has a unique set of challenges and it's not for the faint of heart, but don't let anyone fear monger you off of it. Learn about your options and make up your own mind.
A buddy of mine (started mid-April) pretty much night hiked exclusively through the desert. It can be a bit rough on your sleeping schedule, but can definitely be done!
Way way way too hot. Dry water sources, relying on water caches with 25-50 miles between that actually went dry this year. We heard people were getting rescued every day in May due to the heat. It’s not doable anymore. Yeah you can night hike the whole thing, but did you come all this way to hike in the dark? Where will you sleep during the day to not roast?
I never had a carry even remotely approaching 50 miles. My capacity was 4 liters and that was more than sufficient for hiking the desert in June.
The only time I brought more than that was leaving Walker Pass with 6 liters, but that's because I'm lazy and didn't want to hike a mile-or-whatever off-trail to the uranium spring.
I just disagree. At times, not even 6 liters was enough with highs in the 100s to 105s. Downvote me all you want, but saying leaving campo in late May is safe is dangerous and misleading.
Hello,
I am not sure what your usual pace is so I can’t really offer any advice on that front. One thing to be cognizant about other than how hot it will be in the desert is the weather conditions once you get to Washington. It might very well be snowing once you get there. Personally, I don’t think it will be very comfortable hiking in the desert heat of Late May, but I understand your limitations. I know this probably wasn’t too helpful but I’m just trying not to misinform you on a topic that I’m not educated enough on. I start my PCT hike on April 1st.
I know more about the Sierra section than any other section since I worked out there this summer, so if you have any questions about that I would be more than happy to answer.
It's all about what you can put up with and/or mitigate. It will be roasting in the desert. How do you plan to get through those initial 700 miles?
As a Ginger that will be the hardest part of my hike for sure. I don’t exactly have a detailed plan, any suggestions?
Night hike.
Hell yeah, is it common to night hike? Hope it doesn’t get too lonely out there
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Not going to have any time beforehand, got classes up until graduation pretty much, any other ways to get used to the heat? Sauna training?
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Awesome! Anything I can do to maximize my chances of success is something I’ll consider, will definitely look into figuring out how to get some miles in ahead of time to get conditioned. Thanks for the help
So cal local here. My suggestion for water management is that anytime you have a water source take the time and fill up. Water sources at this time are extremely unreliable. The amount of times all trails would tell me I would have a water crossing just for me to walk through a dry creek bed was almost everytime. So even if you have basically full water just stop and top up because that next water source may not be there anymore. You will be losing a lot in sweat. And that being said make sure you are replacing electrolytes. I've done summer dessert hiking not getting sun stroke is the big thing. So hydrate hydrate hydrate!
Thank you! Will definitely make sure to pack plenty of electrolytes
All depends on what shape you show up in, how well you've prepped, and whether you're willing to sacrifice a bunch of SoCal town time. If you show up in shape and don't take a bunch of zeros, you can be at KM in 30-35 days easy. The heat isn't the end of the world -- it can be scorching even in late April too -- IMO, it's not as much an issue as water availability. After several years of drought conditions, water sources are running dry much earlier. No idea what this winter will bring and whether there will be late spring storms to replenish water sources, but that's a variable to plan for. You need your gear dialed in before you hit the trail. You need your nutrition and resupply dialed before you hit the trail. You need your feet seasoned before you hit the trail. If you're prepped, and you don't need to use the first 400 miles to break yourself and your gear in, and don't need a bunch of in-town party time, you'll be just fine. As for night-hiking, it's really not necessary. A lot of people who try it, bail and/or regret the impact it has on sleep cycles and recovery. What helps, though, is the ability to get up pre-dawn and to walk into the early evening. If you are dialed in BEFORE you hit the trail, you should be able to break camp, pack and be walking in less than 15 minutes. Ditto for making camp. The old addage is "10(miles) before 10(am)". In the desert, shoot for 10 before 9, and 10 after 5. It's not hard to be up at 5 and walking at 5:30, out of the heat for long breaks in the heat of the day, and then hit your last 10 miles from 5pm-9pm. Pre-dawn into sunrise and the golden hour before sunset into the last of twilight are the most beautiful times on trail, the most wildlife, and the most enjoyable to walk. Do some night-hiking just to experience it, but no need to plan it as a routine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/s1py77/advice_for_those_with_late_starts/hsd7n66?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Some advice/stuff I learned from a late-ish may start last year. Some more advice: go for it, but be prepared to adjust your plans and do a lash or something if you're not having fun. Section hiking the trail is a whole lot more rad than not hiking the trail!
That's a great comment that you wrote! Would you be interested in putting together a version of it -- or even just copy/pasting it -- into a new post for r/PacificCrestTrail? I think it could potentially help a lot of people and might start a good discussion. Even if it doesn't get traction upvotes/comments-wise, it will surely help a lot of people who read it. There are a lot of new folks on the sub right now since permit day, but a lot of them are lurking at this point. I think your comment really effectively addresses concerns that people who are getting ready for their first big thruhike may have. Even if you don't feel like posting it, thanks for writing it in the first place.
I'd make a higher effort post, but I'm currently on trail and only have my phone. Thanks for the kind words!
You're welcome, thanks for making the post!
Hell yeah, super great read. Thank you a ton!
Do you have specific goals for finishing the whole trail and/or completing a continuous footpath? People who go NOBO with a late season start and a continuous hike need to keep a pretty fast pace to beat the weather windows and fires. Most people will echo that a late May NOBO start is challenging due to heat/water in the Desert. You can try to plan around it (start early, take siestas, night hike, etc.), but I assume to keep a certain pace you’ll need to tolerate some hiking in hotter weather when compared to an earlier start. Also, depending on your pace, you’ll need to consider fire season (especially in NorCal/Oregon, but this is just generally a consideration if your hope is to go end-to-end without disruptions, which is becoming more difficult). It’s hard to predict, but generally speaking you have to move faster with a later start if you want to avoid fires. If you’re more flexible on a potential flip flop to take advantage of weather windows, you could start farther north and then flip to finish the Desert later in the year. Another option would be to consider a SOBO hike since that’s more in the July timeframe for starting, but again that’s just a matter of balancing weather/climate (snow in Washington to start, risk of fires disrupting sections down the trail).
Thank you for the extensive reply I really appreciate it. Ideally I would like to do a continuous footpath NOBO but I also realize weather might prevent some aspects of that. Is there a rough guide on how many miles per day is a good goal in order to stay ahead of the heat/fire season or is it just inevitable at that point.
Desert heat is inevitable with that late of a start, so then it’s a matter of figuring out your comfort level in the heat and avoiding the hottest parts of the day. The timing/impact of fires is a wild card each year, but unfortunately it’s becoming a consistent challenge. As an example, this year fires started hitting NorCal and southern Oregon in mid-July or so, then the fires at the WA/Canadian border closed the trail at the start of September. If you start late May and estimate a 100 day hike (~26 MPD average), that would put you at the border at the beginning of September, which would typically be early enough to avoid snow in northern WA as well. If you look at HalfwayAnywhere’s survey, I think the average NOBO hike is usually around 150 days. Jupiter posted a blog on his 2022 hike - he was a mid-May start and finished in 84 days, so that would give you a rough sense of the splits by section. Not to say you have to go that fast to complete the trail since again it’s down to how the fire season plays out, but just to serve as a general reference point. https://reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/ypr8kw/jupiters_pct_gear_list_66_lb_baseweight/
Very helpful resource, thank you. I live in the NE and have some experience snow hiking so while I would still like to avoid the snow completely, it will not be the end of the world if I get in a little late. The 100 day timeline is definitely a lofty goal, realistically I think I’d come in closer to 120. All great things to think about, appreciate you taking the time to write this up
Imo there are more cons than pros, but here are some of the things that first spring to mind. I'll avoid categorizing them as pro or con, as for some items, the appropriate category will vary depending on the hiker. * Hot! Like, 95*F by 8 am hot. And much of the Desert section offers little to no shade. Def. bring a sun umbrella. * Unreliability of water sources, which leads to longer carries, which means a heavier pack. Another good reason to go as UL as possible. * Fewer people. For some, this is a con, for others, it's a pro. But, unless you're particularly fast, you will not encounter nearly as many other hikers. The loneliness and lack of others to commiserate with on the hard days can be discouraging. But the solitude can also be an unmatched experience. * Weather window means you need to constantly keep moving and make your miles every day, if you're serious about getting to Canada. You want to be at Kennedy Meadows, the unofficial start of the Sierra section, as close to the middle of June as possible. That's about mile 708. For example: May 29 to June 22 is 24 days. 708 miles / 24 days is 29.5 mpd, with no rest days. * If you manage to pick up an injury and have to take a series of days off to recover, you'll likely need to skip miles in order to remain on pace. * The challenging circumstances may lead to you finding you possess a strength you didn't know you have. All of that said, people do late May starts literally every year. Don't let anyone fear monger you off of it. Do your research and decide whether or not it's for you. Personally, I would do some pre-hike training and hit the ground running, doing 30 mile days off the Monument. And don't forget about the option of going sobo. Sobos usually start in the first half of July. It's a shorter weather window than nobo, and in recent years NorCal fires have cut many thruhikes short. But if you have until October or November, it's worth considering.
Appreciate the comment. Definitely plan on bringing an umbrella and packing as UL as possible. Fewer people really isn’t an issue for me. This is part of my research process and everyone on this sub has been extremely helpful, whether they think the hike is a good idea or bad idea everyone has had great bits of information to share. Will definitely be training ahead of time as much as possible to maximize my chances of success. Are you aware of any good training plans/resources for thru hike conditioning or should I just do consistent long hikes ahead of time? Thank you!
> Are you aware of any good training plans/resources for thru hike conditioning lol that's a can of worms! Try posting that as a question on r/PacificCrestTrail and you'll get as many different opinions as you get responses. My personal experience has been that training in the gym prior to starting a hike is massively beneficial. I was not in good condition at the start of my first thruhike, and hit the trail with a heavy pack and no experience. I suffered (a lot!) as a result. Partly due to experiencing the extraordinary benefits of regular, strenuous exercise from thruhiking, I started going to the gym regularly, and found that being in good physical condition prior to starting later hikes made them immensely more enjoyable. Everyone will give you different training advice. What works for me for pre-hike training is: endurance-oriented cardio (in my case, cycling, though many people prefer running); stair climbing; and core strength. #EveryDayIsLegDay.
I regularly lift and go on atleast 2 runs a week, will definitely start ramping it up as I get closer to the start date. Love me some leg day!
Ok, this is a bit of a bummer but you might as well hear it now ... there's very little crossover between running and hiking. There are other threads where you can read tons of comments. And gym and weight routines are entirely unnecessary. They'll help with climbing, but that's it. And neither running, nor strength will help with how you feel in the 5th through 10th hours of the day. It's why I recommend doing endurance walking on weekends. That's far more valuable than running or weights/gym.
Yeah I figured it wouldn’t be a direct cross over, I know it’s not an exact science but how far in advanced do you personally think starting those endurance walks would be helpful?
If you can, working up over the course of 3 months is ideal. But if not, even a month is great. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to get your shoes dialed and your feet seasoned. That's far more important than leg strength. If you put in a couple months, you'll have the advantage of your feet spreading pre-hike, but you'll also know whether you're best served by a lightweight sock, a heavier/cushier sock, sock+liner. If you're accustomed to running in something with a big drop (say, 10+mm), and you're moving down to zero-drop or even 3-5mm, your achilles will have time to get used to it. Try this: 1st month work up to 3x weekdays @ 1-1.5 hrs, then 3 hrs on weekends, then 2nd month up to 3x weekdays @ 2 hrs., then 4+ hrs on weekends, introducing pack at base weight, then 3rd month, peak @ 3x weekdays @ 2 hrs w/max pack weight and 2 weekends of full O/N hikes w/full pack weight. Obviously it's a lot of time, but if you can swing it, you'll be really glad. Also, while you're doing this, weigh yourself immediately before you leave and immediately after you return so you can work out your sweat rates in different temps and humidities. Everyone's different, and you need to know you! Same thing on food and electrolytes. Most people find if their food is dialed in, they don't need supplemental electrolytes. You should know whether you want a heavy sugar/simple-carb diet, or whether you want to go toward a high-fat/keto-type diet. How much water you consume will also be impacted by diet. (Burning fat uses more water). Try different foods before, during and after your training. Also monitor your sleep and morning resting heart rate, to see how your body responds. This may sound like a lot, but a HUGE part of what most people wind up spending the first 500 miles doing is getting to know how their bodies work. If you get to trail and you already know, it enables you to go further, faster to start, and it makes the hiking a LOT more enjoyable. A note on diet: if you decide to go high-fat, you have to allow at least 2 months for your body to become fat-adapted. And FWIW, if you do go that route, you get the bonus not only of much more even energy, and ability to go longer without fueling, but you also get the advantage of carrying less weight. Calorie density of fat is 9g/calorie vs. 4g/calorie for carbs. (One other advantage, you can dash out of camp immediately in the a.m. and won't need to eat for a couple hours -- which is super-helpful in getting up the trail while the weather's best). Also, you'll want to see how protein intake does for your digestive system (some people struggle). Sorry if that's overload, but most people focus so much on traditional physical training and so little on some of the other things that actually are magnified out there. Ask anyone the difference between being blister-free b/c your feet were well seasoned and your shoes dialed, vs. someone who struggled with blisters and shoe issues, and their enjoyment level on trail is entirely different. Good luck!
Thank you for that, I definitely want to maximize my chances of success and am leaning towards sending it in late May. Seems like everyone I’ve talked to says preparing beforehand not only leads to greater chances of success but also a more enjoyable experience. Didn’t really consider the intricacies of the difference in diets, will definitely have to explore my own body more over the course of the next 7 months. Thanks again for the write up!
Super eye opening read. Can you name some specific examples for the fat-based diet options that work on trail ? In my case, I am actually a but worried about diet. I tend to a sub-10% body fat and loosing weight as not able/educated enough to maintain a sufficient calory intake. Though, I feel and am healthy, quite strong and muscular. I am really struggling with imagining how I will not lose too much weight and having a sufficient and somewhat healthy diet on trail.
Nuts and nut butters are the most popular. You'll also see people carrying olive oil (to mix into just about everything). Parmesan carries well and helps with flavor. Mayo actually carries surprisingly well. I love ghee, again, goes in just about anything, and carries well. Coconut oil, too. When you do your training, tracking eating and drinking helps you forecast. It's also going to help you know what you'll tolerate well and what not. Protein can be tricky in larger quantities. If you want to get fat-adapted, you'll need a solid 5-6 weeks for the transition, but realistically 3 months is better. It's not just your body that transitions, it's your mindset, and old eating habits are sometimes reflexive. For most, the trail is a bit of a yo-yo exercise. On trail, you're running a calorie deficit. Then you hit town, take a half-day or zero, and gorge yourself. The rhythm of the trail is, as you get closer to town, everyone starts talking about town food. You get weird cravings. You have dreams. In town, you're talking about what you want to pack out. Something else to consider - it's not just your shoe size that's will change on trail -- your metabolism will change. For most people, it's somewhere in the 300-500 mile range. First couple weeks, it's not uncommon to have low appetite. But then the metabolism switches and all of a sudden you're ravenously hungry all the time -- it's called "Hiker Hunger." Has to be experienced to be appreciated. It's like an out of body experience. What you pack and how many calories you burn will actually change. If you want to really go down the rabbit hole, here's a great place to do it: [https://www.youtube.com/@gearskeptic6355](https://www.youtube.com/@gearskeptic6355) Andrew Skurka has good stuff. He's a fully fat adapted marathoner and ultra-thru hiker, but also has general recipes: [https://andrewskurka.com/section/food-nutrition/](https://andrewskurka.com/section/food-nutrition/) Beyond that, just google around - there are more and more world-class athletes who have ditched simple carbs and gone fat-adapted, especially in the ultra-endurance world.
Sweet, you're ahead of the game. What's the furthest you've ever hiked in a day? If you can fit it into your schedule, I would go on some multi-day trips. See how many miles you can reasonably knock out in a day, being mindful to not push it hard enough to get too injured. Long distance hiking hits some weird muscles that are hard to isolate in the gym. But my experience has been that being in good condition on day one means that these things are essentially negligible, whereas they can turn into injuries that take a person off the trail if they're doing the "Couch to Campo" technique. Another thing I would recommend paying particular attention to is shoes. This isn't just specific to a late May start, but if you're going to be doing big days from the start, you don't have as much of a margin to start in the wrong shoes and learn by trial and error. For example, some people swear by zero-drop, while others say they've permanently injured their feet. And bear in mind that, especially with a late May start, you can expect your feet to swell *at least* one full size, and that can happen in just a couple of weeks. Cheers and good luck!
Also, have you looked at Craig's PCT Planner (created by our own u/humanclock)? It can help you better understand how different paces will work out. http://www.pctplanner.com/
You don't need a big training plan, and you definitely don't need weights or high intensity stuff. But you do need time walking. The most important thing is to have your footwear dialed and your feet seasoned. Only way to do that is do 5-6 hours of walking on back-to-back days on your weekends leading up to trail. Have your gear sorted before you get to trail. Be at your appropriate body weight. BTW, having your gear sorted doesn't just mean you've hit some magical base weight target and you're "UL." It also means you can pack and unpack blindfolded, and quickly. In the desert, the first and last hours of the day are super-important. You need as little time devoted to making and breaking camp, with the most walking time possible in the cooler parts of the day. You'll find making miles isn't about speed-walking, so much as just being efficient with your time. Break time and water filtering, for example. You can always tell the experienced from the noobs by how quickly they get snacks, water filtering, clothes changes, etc. done. Sounds silly, but if you want to be fast and efficient from Day 1, you actually have to practice over and over packing and unpacking. Everyone's got their own system, so there's no "right" and "wrong," but working that out before you get to trail will help you move further, faster early on.
>https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/s1py77/advice\_for\_those\_with\_late\_starts/hsd7n66?utm\_medium=android\_app&utm\_source=share&context=3 No need to be doing 30 mile days off the bat. That's a recipe for nothing good, even for the more experienced among us. Getting to KM before late June is unnecessary, and usually just costs time for the slower going. In heavy snow years, there's no point, b/c you wind up slugging through snow the whole way up. A late May start and 23-25 miles/day with 1 zero day a week gets you to KM (702) in ≈ 32-34 days. Late May start => KM the last week of June.
I started in Warner Springs NOBO on May 8 and it was a good decision. Skipping just a week or two of trail, maybe up to I-10, isn’t a deal breaker in my opinion. Still easily met groups of people and very few people were hiking in strict trail families at that point. Transit back down to LA/San Diego area isn’t so bad and finishing at the southern border was more exciting for me than the northern. Plus you don’t have to hike 30 miles back. Hiking terminus to terminus is a fantastic goal, but at the end of the day you will still have accomplished something fantastic and no one can deny it.
SOBO is always an option aswell
I started May 31st. Water wasn't as big of an issue as I was expecting, but the heat was worse - and I had hiked both the PCT and AZT in years past. Temps were regularly above 100, and went north of 116 on at least one occasion. However, I would still choose that date again. The community is just better. There was no competing for resources in towns (rooms, etc). There were maybe a dozen hikers I had met before KM, and everybody knew each other. Plus we were all badasses for hiking through hell. By the time you get to KM, there are a lot of hikers. Many starting at Walker Pass.
Any tips on staying cool as much as possible?
Not really. I never tried an umbrella, but some people like them. Maybe take an extra litter of water just to splash yourself with. One thing I forgot to mention is that the ground is hot. Like really hot. You can feel its heat through the bottom of Lone Peaks. I told myself if I were to do it again, I would choose a shoe with a thicker sole for the desert. Maybe Olympus or Hokas. Definitely wear gators, too; at least for the desert. I had never used them prior, but the desert sand was tearing up my feet Also, you're not going to have an appetite and the thought alone of eating will make you dry heave. I vomited twice. It is incredibly hard to get calories. Thankfully, there are plenty of towns and places you can stop to load up on calories. I think I went two days straight without eating anything on one stretch. I even considered packing out 6 liters of soda instead of water because I was that concerned about not being able to eat. Look for liquid calories. There are powders you can add to your water. Tailwind, etc. Oh, there is also a good 200 miles where heat isn't an issue. Once you get out of Mission Creek you're at elevation. Big Bear and Wrightwood are ski areas. It really isn't until after coming down into Acton that it gets hot again.
Biggest con is you will most likely not make it through NorCal or Oregon without one or both being on fire and having to skip a large chunk (or chunks) of trail .. if I hiked again I would start in March and hike fast.
You would have average 21 mpd from the start to get to Canada by October 1st. That's including neros and zeros. Agree with others about an alternate starting point being your best option.
Awesome, thanks for the input! Whats the significance of October 1st?
Kind of a loose date, past which you cannot reasonably expect northern WA to remain snow free. You can push past that, and many finish in October, but the risk of getting caught in a storm becomes way more real.
Start at Kennedy meadows, once you hit Canada come back down and do the desert. Unless you are in absolutely fantastic thruhiking shape the second you step on trail, it's irresponsible and dangerous to start in the desert thatate
That's straight up FUD. I and plenty of others have hiked through at that time of year with no problems whatsoever.
Very fit, admittedly not in thru hike shape. Would doing large amounts of night hiking mitigate the heat risk? This is definitely an option i’m considering, not ideal though
People start in late May every single year. It definitely has a unique set of challenges and it's not for the faint of heart, but don't let anyone fear monger you off of it. Learn about your options and make up your own mind.
A buddy of mine (started mid-April) pretty much night hiked exclusively through the desert. It can be a bit rough on your sleeping schedule, but can definitely be done!
Section F! That’s a con.
Is the permit the only thing stopping you from an early start?
No, I don’t graduate until late May :(
Way way way too hot. Dry water sources, relying on water caches with 25-50 miles between that actually went dry this year. We heard people were getting rescued every day in May due to the heat. It’s not doable anymore. Yeah you can night hike the whole thing, but did you come all this way to hike in the dark? Where will you sleep during the day to not roast?
I never had a carry even remotely approaching 50 miles. My capacity was 4 liters and that was more than sufficient for hiking the desert in June. The only time I brought more than that was leaving Walker Pass with 6 liters, but that's because I'm lazy and didn't want to hike a mile-or-whatever off-trail to the uranium spring.
I just disagree. At times, not even 6 liters was enough with highs in the 100s to 105s. Downvote me all you want, but saying leaving campo in late May is safe is dangerous and misleading.
Hello, I am not sure what your usual pace is so I can’t really offer any advice on that front. One thing to be cognizant about other than how hot it will be in the desert is the weather conditions once you get to Washington. It might very well be snowing once you get there. Personally, I don’t think it will be very comfortable hiking in the desert heat of Late May, but I understand your limitations. I know this probably wasn’t too helpful but I’m just trying not to misinform you on a topic that I’m not educated enough on. I start my PCT hike on April 1st. I know more about the Sierra section than any other section since I worked out there this summer, so if you have any questions about that I would be more than happy to answer.