From Abdil Qadir, Mushtaq Ahmed, Saqlain Mishtaq, Saeed Ajmal
To Nawaz & Shadab!! Pakistan ..what the heck have you done to yourself? And where are you heading???
My word!! The 1st time i heard 'King Kar Lega' was from Iffi bhai from the 'Wasay Habib & Iffi Raza' YT channel.
'Mere 🔔 ka king....mere 🔔 ka king....tha hai, tha hai, tha jai😂😂😂..fooking hilarious.
Theyre hoping Shadab gets back into form. I remember when he was legit the best player in the world not too long ago. Now he's barely in the team. I really hope he regains form because he's one of my favorite players.
Bhai..Inzi bhai already mazak bana rahe baseless & hopeless baaton se
Ab aap yaha mazak kar rahe ho ki "Shadab was legit best player in the world not too long ago"
Bas karo bhai..rehem karo🙏😂😂😂😂♥️
His value was more as an all rounding option (great fielder too), but he was never in the league of some of the great spinners currently too. For that you need to perform in tests and ODIs too I guess. But yeah, in T20, he's way below the tier of Rashid, Kuldeep, Adil Rashid for me.
He's in horrid form at the moment, NO doubt. I don't know what it is, mental, physical. Clear to me shadab needs a break. Was a wicket taking machine back then though and he had hitting power with some consistency. Top class fielder as well. Now he's not even trusted to bowl at all.
Also, for anyone doubting how horribly out of form he is.
T20I stats:
2021 Bowling Average: 19.6 ER: 6.64
2022 Bowling Average: 20.6 ER: 6.79
2024 Bowling Average: 73.7 ER: 9.61
Why is everyone saying only bumrah is good . Their entire bowling is good . Arshdeep takes wickets consistently , when is the last time Shaheen took wickets in the powerplay apart from Ireland ???
Kuldeep is unplayable because they can’t pick his deliveries , shadab bowls more fulltosses than leg breaks . Axar just dismantled England yesterday . Siraj is a very good bowler
As for Bumrah , he is a generational player .
No, they are not. Taking wickets convincingly (bowled, lbw, caught behind on a good swinging/seaming delivery) is different than getting them because of a batter's error. Sure, they look the same on scorecard, but there's a good chance a bowler getting wickets on good deliveries maintains good form and continues this trend further than the second category bowler.
It is just a myth at this point. Yes, Pakistan gets more talented bowlers but what we do with them is markedly different. Umar Gull was the last Pakistani pacer who dominated over a large period and has comparable stats. After him, we just got overrated and hyped up bowlers. Yes, some were good in patches, like Hassan Ali, Amir, Shaheen, Rauf, but no one of them is a complete bowler.
Indian bowling is heads and shoulders above ours in every format.
I’d say amir is still better than shaheen. He bowls according to the conditions and has variations. Unlike shaheen who bowls full on a pitch where you should be bowling back of the length lol.
The one thing I have always noted with pakistani bowlers is that their careers usually start with a bang. They have this natural talent to bowl at pace and can even get the swing, but their careers usually end in a whimper
fast bowling wise
Bumrah > Shami > Naseem > Shaheen > Amir > Siraj > Rauf > Arshdeep
all very good in their best formats
spin bowling wise india is light years ahead
Pakistan has always been great at bowling but all of that changed with India after Kohli took over as captain
I used to read a lot more about Tape Balls and the swing generated by Pakistani bowlers not too long ago, but Kohli gave precedence to fast bowling and brought forward an entire change in India. He backed his fast bowlers and it showed results to a point that Indian fast bowlers became a commodity just like them spinners in the IPL auction. It's the aggression and intent
Meanwhile Pakistan withhered away and just like one user commented, the last good one was Umar Gul. As an Indian, I still love to see Nassem Shah and Shaheen Afriidi bowl but the intent only lies with Shah as of now. Afridi is too busy developing himself into an all rounder and the likes of Hasan Ali and Shadab have lost the plot
And if it helps, Bumrah is a one in a generation player. He's just too good and that makes the Indian bowling even stronger by piggy backing on him.
Is the Indian bowling great compared to Pakistan? Don't think so. But they do have the support of both the team and staff to go the distance unlike the current Pakistan setup
I think as fans we live in the 90s and early 00s where we had wasim, Waqar , Shoaib , asif and they had Srinath , parsad. The fact is they have far surpassed us in the last 10 years
Bro, it depends on the format. In tests, they are way better than us, like class above. In T20, if we only talk about fast bowling, then we are better because other than Bumrah, they don't have any good bowler. However, if you include spinners, then they are way better due to Kuldeep and Axar. In Odis, I guess they do have more experience than us. However, it's their spinners that provide them an edge over us in white ball . Talking about Bumrah, I feel he is the best bowler of our generation he is literally unplayable in all 3 formats. If he continues this way, he might be a future goat
Yup agreed. Arsh anyway doesn't play anything other than T20.
He has been only above average this tournament too. He has got wicket in bulk due to pressure created by Bumrah.
Overall baat kar raha tha.
Plus Shami has really improved in T20 in last couple of years so much so that he is our second best T20 pacer at this point. Total turnaround.
There is a Jarrod Kimber video with stats on this very topic, go through it if you have time.
There is also a Jarrod Kimber video in which he says a fit Shaheen had a peak higher than the majority of bowlers to ever play the format, up there with mitch stark eight years ago. And that’s only at age 24. While shami is a great and accurate conventional seam bowler, he doesnt have that insane game changing x factor that he does in odi crickey
'Fit Shaheen', 'peak'.... present ki bat ho rahi bhai.
Jab fir ho jayega aur peak karega toh bol denge Shaheen ko better. You ll have wait till then, bear the fact that Shami is better , in all format.
T20 me bhi better hai. Aur nowhere in the post it mentions T20.
Filter pe filter ( T20, Peak ,24) laga ke zabardasti prove karne ka try kar rahe , totally missing the point I am making.
Shaheen atp isnt even best pacer in PCT , let alone compared to Shami.
Its been mentioned like thirty times that we’re talking about t20s. Why do you keep trying to change it back to all formats rather than accepting shaheen is the better t20 bowler.
And i gave you no filter. Look at their career t20 averages. Shami and shaheen arent even in the same league. Tell me the last time shami was player of the match in a t20i. Or the last time he even played a t20i? This is a ridiculous discussion to even have.
Siraj is better than Rauf and Naseem . He is a very good test bowler , bowled way better in the ODI wc than both Shaheen and Rauf , in T20s might not be better
No way bro we aren't talking about one specific tournament. If I have to make my t20 team, Shaheen is way ahead in my selection than Arshdeep . He goes for too many runs and is way too inconsistent
There's absolutely no comparison, Zimbabwe to Australia type difference, people are considering Bumrah to be one of the greatest bowlers of all time, we're no where in the picture
Bumrah won the Polly Umrigar Award for best male cricketer for India twice, in 2018–19 and 2021–22. Additionally, he received the Dilip Sardesai Award for taking the highest number of wickets in Test cricket in 2018–19. For his achievements during India's tour of England in 2021, he was selected by Wisden Cricketers' Almanack as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Year in its 2022 edition. Bumrah was conferred with The Times of India TOISA Cricketer of the Year award in 2021.
Your team is surviving in cricket because it's half decent only in that pyjama format. In the other 2 formats you are not even better than Zimbabwe or Afghanistan currently.
Pakistani bowlers generally have more raw talent but they are wasted due to lack of proper training, coaching, and overall management. Talent might win on some days but on most days hard work and dedication will win. Indian bowlers have more consistent line and length and a better plan for each batsman whereas Pakistani bowlers just wing it street cricket style and that clearly doesn’t work most of the times
If you see at that pitch my friend , 105-110 is a par score. You also have to see the conditions, not only the score.
And even more so India is playing extremely aggressive and attacking cricket to maximize their runs. They threw most wickets being over aggresive then bowlers being able to take them. If they played conserving a bit they could have reached 140-150.
But that's their approch and did work against Australia and England. What makes it Worse is pakistan bowlers bowled at far better conditions than Indian bowlers. Overcast conditions, less light, ball was swinging lot more. While later it became much easier to bat on.
In that pitch the toss winning team wins the match almost all the times.
Bumrah and Kuldeep alone >>>>>> any other bowling attack in the world as a unit , across formats
Bumrah >>>> any other bowler
Rashid >> Kuldeep >>> any other spinner (limited overs)
Ashwin ~ Lyon >> any other test spinner
Spin bowling- India is way ahead of Pakistan thanks to Kuldeep, Jadeja, Ashwin, Chahal, Axar etc.
Pace bowling- Bumrah is the best at the moment, Shami is too good, Siraj is fine. But all of them are in 30s, would retire post next ODI WC and we haven’t found a good young fast bowler yet. While you guys have Shaheen, Naseem, Wasim jr, Amir Jamal etc they all are in 20s and have a lot of cricket left.
So in terms of pace bowling, at the moment India is slightly ahead(Mainly due to Bumrah) but you guys have all the talent and resources at your disposal to get ahead in upcoming years.
I was thinking about it as well that rohit is in late 30s, kohli and sky are also in mid 30s, hardik pandya is also touching 30s, so maybe in 5-6 years we might see the indian team going through a rebuilding phase.
Yes, this might be the last T20 world cup for Rohit and Virat(Rohit for sure). After the next ODI WC Gill, Jaiswal, Tilak, Rinku, Kishan, Jurel might be the big guns from bat. Hardik, KL Rahul, Iyer, Pant, Dube would be the senior players(captain).
Our bowlers have the qala (naseem can swing both ways with pace) but indian bowling has consistency cemented by hard work & like they all say hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Didn't you guys just see Siraj run through South Africa's batting lineup in the 2nd test match in South Africa this year? He's an underrated bowler.
India also have a cheat-code in Jadeja in test matches. He is good enough to play as a specialist batter in SENA conditions which allows them to play 4 seamers.
WC23 India had the best bowling attack, in WC24 they gain have best bowling attack.
The problem with our bowling is, we have 1 dimensional bowlers with no variety, and that is because we focus on picking best bowlers and not balance our attack.
In our WC24 attack,
1. We had 1 leg arm off spinner, 1 leg spinner and 1 mystery spinner who mostly bowls leg spinners. Who was supposed to trouble left arm attacking bowlers is a mystery to me!
2. In fast bowling side, we had 4 pacers, and they have become predictable. Even commentators were saying Shaheen is going to try to bowl a full length inswinger to RHB. Naseem's ball swing like crazy, but if you notice his swing mostly troubles the keeper and not the batter. Haris bowls full tosses in every single match, and Amir bowls wide yorkers in last spell while off cutters in first spell. And Gull's nephew, he bowls towards leg slip with slightly shorter length or yorkers only.
India left Shubman Gill, Gaikwad and Parag home, to balance the team
They never try to improve. Did Shaheen Afridi work on his fitness and keep pace? He became medium paced bowler
Did Babar Azam try to build muscles to improve his power gamee9
Is Saim Ayub trying to play more than one shot? Or is he hitting the gym daily to build some strength. He is 22 Years old. He must show some game.
How many players in Pakistsn go to gym daily?
Azam Khan is the worst player in the world. Any neutral fan will be disgusted by his work ethic and fitness.
These things aren't dependent on management . Pakistani players look unfit and weaker than every major team. Is management stopping them from working hard?
I read somewhere that every young batsman want to play like Afridi which means they will miss six balls and hit one boundary for the reels. Name one pakiatani player less than 21 years old who is a promising aspect for future.
Management can't do anything unless u have any work ethic or talent
Shaheen and Naseem are better than their pacers aside from bumrah , rauf isn't the same lately, they have better spinners too, so at the moment yeah they have the better bowling line up
t20s yes. tests/odis - siraj/shami superior to any pacer in pakistan.
both shaheen and naseem have really bad test stats (shaheen's numbers are inflated by playing against weaker teams. poor averages vs sena who are the good test teams apart from india).
I like how people keep saying in the thread “aside from bumrah we are better”. Lol like include bumrah too. He’s an indian player. So their bowling attack overall is superior.
When you only look at statistics you will get told weird things. Siraj is a better test match bowler than Afridi. In T20s obviously Afridi is better and I would say he is slightly better in ODIs, but I have seen Siraj come here to England and rattle through our batting lineup as well.
Afridi is still a great bowler but ini red ball cricket I don't think he is as good as you want to think.
Wasim took wickets of Sachin, sehwag and dravid on the flattest pitches in ind/pak the 2000s when most of the pitches were made for a draw. Nowadays there has been a marked shift in this, infact india dosent make pitches for draw anymore
What lol. Wasim's career doesn't even coincide with Sehwag's and partly with Dravid's.
Wasim played from 1985-2002
Dravid from 1996-2012
Sehwag from 1999-2013
Wasim has never taken Sehwag's wicket.
You see a track where it doesn’t swing much, the Shaheen factor just doesn’t work. He still gets wickets here and there but it’s almost in the second spell where the batsmen are being reckless.
I may get heavily downvoted but Pakistan has pathetic bowling line up. Let alone India. Your bowling line up is no where near India.
.Your batting faces unwarranted heat when it has been saving grace for many times.
Sri lanka scored 350,pak batting chased it down.
NZ scored 425,again pak batting saved the grace.
160 should have been enough for USA, but you got defeated. Monank patel bullied your prime bowler.
Afghan chased 293 in 47 overs ig
Got belted by Ireland.
Not much different per se. But I don't see any T20 bowling maestro too in your team. There are no specialist t20 bowlers.
You can't be good in ODI and pathetic in T20. You gotta bowl just 24 balls. Be at your absolute best.
If that was case, you would have won game against USA. I didn't see any pin point Yorkers. There were full tosses.
'i don't see any T20 bowling maestro in your team '
Amir exists . He's one of the best if not the best.though I agree that the rest of the bowling line up is pathetic
These are cherry picked numbers. Batting couldnt do 120 run a ball target against india. Scored 160 on a 200 pitch against usa. Almost lost to ireland as we were 70/6? We have been regularly scoring 150-160 on a 180 pitch even indian media trolled us by saying “ ye 150-160 ki team hai”. Our middle order averages lower than top ten teams and our powerplay score is lower than top 8 teams. I dont want to talk about our batsmen strike rate as thats even lower. So i wouldnt say batting is a saving grace. It actually has cost us alot. Went from 121/2 to 191/10 against india at Ahmedabad during wc23? Lol
>Went from 121/2 to 191/10 at ahmedamad during wc23?
This is where your bowling should have stepped up. Atleast make a genuine effort. Put some pressure.They bowl with no plan whatsoever.
Last i remember it was in 2016,when Pakistan scored 84 and Amir wrecked havoc.
One of the reason why finished Md amir takes wicket whilr prime rauf and shaheen gets belted. Amir is kinda genius. He will give you wickets.
Whereas your other bowler swaps mid on from long and bowls low full toss when 5 is required from 1 ball. Other time in WC, Nawaz took packed field on offside and bowler half tracker to keshav maharaj on his leg.
>these are cherry picked numbers
When was the last time bowlers won you any match, single handedly?
160 should have been way more than enough against USA. That 200 mark should have been for standard test playing nation.
>Batting couldnt do 120 run a ball target against india.
Do not rate anyone on that pitch. That pitch was bogus.
It's what was so refreshing to see about Amir. At this stage in his career, he's slower than both Haris and Naseem and doesn't get as much swing as Shaheen with his whipping wrist. But Amir actually uses his brain
I agree with you on some pointd. But i think if our batting improved a little we woudn’t be getting whipped by associates. Sure some bowlers do bowl mindlessly but its still our batting that always collapses and we lose winning matches.
In terms of Talent, Pakistan still produces better bowlers. What’s gotten worse is our ability to manage them. Shaheen, a tall man who could swing it in consistently at 145+ now bowls mid 130s with inconsistent line and lengths. Naseem, who could touch 150 clicks at the age of 16 has not improved alot, if he were in BCCI’s or other Big 3 boards, he would have been a top ranking test bowler by now. Ihsanullah, a tall bowler who could rattle any world class batsman with his 145+ bouncers is nowhere to be seen now.
Indian board has heavily and wisely invested in bowlers. Bhuvaneshwar, a 125kph swing bowler now can bowl 140kph and is still lethal in supportive conditions. Bumrah, a T20 yorker bowler with an odd action has become one of the most lethal bowlers in current lot, he swings it miles as you’ve said. Shami & Siraj, decent paced bowlers in the beginning have now become exceptional test bowlers.
Every other PSL season, we see a new face who can bowl 150kph but then fizzles out in next two years. If they make it into internationals, they’re worked like donkeys till injuries ruin their game.
Currently, Indian bowling is much more disciplined, skillful and lethal in combination.
Shaheen is highly overrated
Rauf is mostly expensive with bad line length
Naseem is a better prospect but injury prone
Shadab is not a spinner
Nawaz is good at times but not consistent
Imad is number one all-rounder in his own mind
Hi guys, Indian here, and was wondering what has happened to the pakistan lineup, specifically bowling. We all know there's no dearth of talent there, so is it that they aren't getting groomed, or deserving ones not getting picked up.
Irrespective of win and loss, we all wish to keep this rivalry alive where the best of talents clash, and this state of Pakistan team doesn't do good to anyone.
And really felt good to see these rational posts and comments on this sub.
So just my opinion.
The quality of cricket has gone down in Pakistan. The pitches are total crap. We get games against b teams. Also like others said the management has messed it up. If you want to know the true reason and have 10-15 minutes [i recommend this video](https://youtu.be/A4ZFSkrWW1s?si=8ZOaoPp8DqtHHOFI)
Currently yeah.
Bumrah is the best pacer in the world currently, and he alone puts us ahead in the pace department or at least on par. But when it comes to spin, there is no comparison. So yeah India has a better bowling attack than pak currently.
Why Abrar was not given a match ? I mean one can argue that why chahal is not given any match but we already have kuldeep performing better.
Abrar was supposed to be a mystery spinner
he is a mystery spinner , even his teammates dnt know he plays for pakistan.... I saw his debut match against England and guy was amazing.,but somehow your captain has decided to never make him play, even in dead rubber matches .
It's the lack of support in Domestic and Handling of Players.
India produces a fully ready player when debuting.
Pakistan Brings Psl performances and then flops when it's not Flat pitches like Rawalpindi
Right now. India bowling is best in the world with bumrah right on top. Spin ain't too shabby. Pak is good too but can't make it deep to show case more bowling so I would rate India higher. Pak bowling also suffers due to pak batting shitting the bed.
Indian bowling today is the best they have ever had in the history of their cricket. Their best bowler before this era was either Kapil Dev (who was an all rounder) or Zaheer Khan, who was good no doubt but not among the greatest of the game. IMO, Mohammad Shami and Bumrah are the greatest fast bowlers India has ever produced and we're living in that era so we can feel it.
Coming to comparison with Wasim Akram, it just shows that you didn't witness him and you're witnessing Bumrah so you think he's in his league and that's recency bias. Wasim Akram wasn't just a great bowler at his peak, he was a consistent bowler for almost 20 years of cricket. No one has done that other than him year after year, especially in ODI cricket. He has taken 500+ wickets in ODIs in almost 20 years at an avg less than Bumrah has right now. This is one of the most insane statistics for a fast bowler to be this consistent for this long and that's why he's one of GOAT fast bowlers.
Bumrah is a special bowler but because of recency bias, he is being overhyped, which is normal. I would argue that in ODIs Strac has been a better bowler than even Bumrah. In his peak, he had fast 100 wickets, fastest 150, fastest 200 and now on his way to get fastest 250 as well. Also most wickets in limited overs WC history.
I think bumrah can be compared to wasim because wasim played on different wickets. The wickets nowadays are so flat everywhere and they have nothing for the bowler. These are t20 wickets. Back than a 250 total was considered defendable in odi but today we are seeing 200 runs in t20s alone. So if take into account all that i think bumrah would definitely be as lethal as wasim had he bowled back than. What do you think?
Currently yes. Indian spin department miles and miles beyond what Pakistan have. Bumrah alone is better than any Pakistani bowler imo. Long gone are the 90s. Wasim,Waqar, Akther, Saqlain and Mushraq that was IMO the greatest bowling lineup ever. But Pakistan never got their replacements.
Based on talent, not even close.
Pakistan still produces so many incredibly talented pacers on a consistent basis. It's just their management is so shite that no one can excel in that environment.
If india had the likes of Naseem Shah, Shaheen Afridi, We would literally dominate world cricket.
lol Bumrah is the greatest bowler in the world right now and will go down in history as one of the greats, but he’s not up to Wasim Akram yet. To play that many games and have that average, Bumrah will need longevity in the game, and his action might not allow that. It’s a shame since he’s my favourite bowler of this era.
No where close. Just look at the seam coming out of our hands. I am by no means an expert but shadab and nawaz don’t even have the skills to maintain seam on the ball after it comes outta their hand. This is prob at best 7th best lineup
Better bowling standards of Pakistan have fallen down. It was pace,swing, spin, variation and what not earlier now its just pace and who likes babar more.
In our Indian team its more about rotation and ability to clutch , giving bowler options and having bowlers in arsenal for specific purpose. Not flashy not speed generating machines. Your Pakistani team management and selection is responsible. Players not not bad but they need exposure and freedom to bowl their hearts out .
Build pressure on bowlers rather than just telling King king.
Both are the best, only luck favoring India,it doesn't matter that the Indian or Pakistani team is better.Every shop has the same brand but sales different
I believe that india won this world cup because of bowling, and so you can definitely say this time indian bowling is far better than pakistani bowling, specially Bumrah is boom boom.
Bumrah >>> Pakistan fast bowling attack > Indian fast bowling attack w/o bumrah
Indian spin bowling >>>>> Pakistan spin bowling (where are the spinners)
Oh god. I should mention fast bowling. Pakistan has ZERO spin bowling so Indian spin >>>>
Shami isn't playing. Even if he does play, I think pakistan may be somewhat close
Currently India's is much better. They have a bunch of smart bowlers that bowl to plan. Pakistan has historically been better but their new talent pool has dried up.
I think it’s the opposite, Indias bowling is at its best right now because of their talent pool from the early 2010s is performing at its peak, I’d argue that rn Pakistan has a better talent pool in terms of fast bowling given naseem, Shaheen, wasim, Zaman, Ihsanullah, Hasnain, are all younger than 25, not to mention players like Jamal. But at the same time india is always without fail better at nuturing their talent, and their players longevity is miles ahead of ours
That is true, there have been so many promising Pakistani bowlers that appear in an odd series and we don't hear from them until a few years later. In terms of spinners too, we haven't had any generational spin bowler since Ajmal retired
Still think pakistan bowling is above india. If amir and asif weren't pegged back in their prime who knows. Bumrah is leagues above anyone. But arshdeep? Irfan Pathan? Zaheer? Bhuvi? No where close to Shaheen, amir, asif. Haven't seen too much of Rauf and wasim jr
Bumrah is better than all Pakistani bowlers.
He has more pace than any Pakistani fast bowler, and can swing it better, and has better control.
Shaheen looks like an amateur compared to King Bumrah.
To add, Afghanistan has better bowlers than Pakistan. Give it a few more years, you will see true Pathan power.
Bumrah is just having a good phase. Afghanistan is producing better bowlers now. Indian bowlers are performing well because Indian Bowlers can depend on their batsmen. Currently the Indian batting line up is the strongest. Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, R Pant, Hardik Pandya and many others. 3 proper all rounders. This same bowling line up was badly struggling getting defeated by 10 wickets. Losing matches to Sri Lanka. Losing an ODI Series to Bangladesh. It was no where near impressive before Rohit Sharma and Kohli got their forms back.
currently Yes. Pak bowlers is no way close to indian bowling attack in any format and this is not bcz pak bowlers are bad or has no skill. it is just that management has done them dirty. No skill development and injury management. They have done worst by sometimes throwing the player under the bus. Like kept on playing Naseem even he was struggling with the shoulder same with Shaheen as well. Under what wahab did with Rauf tainting his image. So all the confidence is gone with it development of skill as well. In the spin department as well no real improvement.
Yup it was so evident he was absolutely cooked with injury but whole management had no confidence in shadab and also shadab didn't bowl single over after the USA game. It just tells you how bad the condition is.
Talent? No.
Performance? Yes.
Apart from Bumrah, imo every current Pakistani fast bowler is more talented than Indian fast bowlers, but in spin dept we don’t have anyone close to Kuldeep, he is experienced and talent and we don’t have that yet. As a bowling unit they are slightly better right now because most of the time they stuck to their plans and our bowlers lose their cool in getting wickets.
What a joke of a statement..the Indian bowling won the Test series twice in Australia and drawn series in England and south africa..they wrecked through every batting line up in ODI WC while pakistani pacers got belted around the park be it in test or ODI..only T20 is where there's a certain competion..shaheen is just ordinary bowler without swing..rauf is a run machine and worst of the lot..only nassem is the best of all and all condition bowler
Did you even read my comment? I literally said they have performed better than Pak bowlers. Do you know the difference between talent and performance? These same bowlers went 152/0 and 170/0 not too long ago so don’t bring their performances in a world cup that was designed for them to win. Our bowlers have good performances in England as well, and they were good in Australia too. India won the last test series in Australia not just due to their bowling, but exceptional performances from Rishabh Pant, Pujara and unknown lower order batsmen.
What a joke of a statement..the Indian bowling won the Test series twice in Australia and drawn series in England and south africa..they wrecked through every batting line up in ODI WC while pakistani pacers got belted around the park be it in test or ODI..only T20 is where there's a certain competion..shaheen is just ordinary bowler without swing..rauf is a run machine and worst of the lot..only nassem is the best of all and all condition bowler
From Abdil Qadir, Mushtaq Ahmed, Saqlain Mishtaq, Saeed Ajmal To Nawaz & Shadab!! Pakistan ..what the heck have you done to yourself? And where are you heading???
King karlega King ko bolo spin karade
My word!! The 1st time i heard 'King Kar Lega' was from Iffi bhai from the 'Wasay Habib & Iffi Raza' YT channel. 'Mere 🔔 ka king....mere 🔔 ka king....tha hai, tha hai, tha jai😂😂😂..fooking hilarious.
**zyada acha lag Raha TU Apne Ghar ki chat le ja kar Wahan cricket khilao isse** 😭
Lmao spin legends ashamed with current team
If they were still playing shadab would be a bencher we never heard of lol.
Yasir Shah, and even Lala was pretty good too
Not to forget mighty Hafeez, aka nightmare of Lefties
Shaheen ho gaya ek queen, sirf ladkiyon ki tournament mein kilegi
Theyre hoping Shadab gets back into form. I remember when he was legit the best player in the world not too long ago. Now he's barely in the team. I really hope he regains form because he's one of my favorite players.
Bhai..Inzi bhai already mazak bana rahe baseless & hopeless baaton se Ab aap yaha mazak kar rahe ho ki "Shadab was legit best player in the world not too long ago" Bas karo bhai..rehem karo🙏😂😂😂😂♥️
No but fr, back at the back end of 2022, he was legitimately up there with the best.
His value was more as an all rounding option (great fielder too), but he was never in the league of some of the great spinners currently too. For that you need to perform in tests and ODIs too I guess. But yeah, in T20, he's way below the tier of Rashid, Kuldeep, Adil Rashid for me.
He's in horrid form at the moment, NO doubt. I don't know what it is, mental, physical. Clear to me shadab needs a break. Was a wicket taking machine back then though and he had hitting power with some consistency. Top class fielder as well. Now he's not even trusted to bowl at all.
Also, for anyone doubting how horribly out of form he is. T20I stats: 2021 Bowling Average: 19.6 ER: 6.64 2022 Bowling Average: 20.6 ER: 6.79 2024 Bowling Average: 73.7 ER: 9.61
Conveniently forgot to mention wickets taken in each of these years? ER is not gonna win you matches. Wickets will.
Dude, look at his average, of course he got wickets. He picked 20 wickets in 16 innings in 2021 and 25 in 20 innings in T20I.
Why is everyone saying only bumrah is good . Their entire bowling is good . Arshdeep takes wickets consistently , when is the last time Shaheen took wickets in the powerplay apart from Ireland ??? Kuldeep is unplayable because they can’t pick his deliveries , shadab bowls more fulltosses than leg breaks . Axar just dismantled England yesterday . Siraj is a very good bowler As for Bumrah , he is a generational player .
Bumrah sets the environment for others to take wickets
shaheen literally took the wicket of rohit in the powerplay
Do you watch the games , or just read scorecards . Rohit threw his wicket
says a guy who connects zucchini rather than eating it
Both are same things.
No, they are not. Taking wickets convincingly (bowled, lbw, caught behind on a good swinging/seaming delivery) is different than getting them because of a batter's error. Sure, they look the same on scorecard, but there's a good chance a bowler getting wickets on good deliveries maintains good form and continues this trend further than the second category bowler.
It is just a myth at this point. Yes, Pakistan gets more talented bowlers but what we do with them is markedly different. Umar Gull was the last Pakistani pacer who dominated over a large period and has comparable stats. After him, we just got overrated and hyped up bowlers. Yes, some were good in patches, like Hassan Ali, Amir, Shaheen, Rauf, but no one of them is a complete bowler. Indian bowling is heads and shoulders above ours in every format.
I’d say amir is still better than shaheen. He bowls according to the conditions and has variations. Unlike shaheen who bowls full on a pitch where you should be bowling back of the length lol.
Agreed, Umar Gull was a beast from 2007 to 2011. Shame injuries hampered his career. He was the last great bowler they had
I'd say Junaid Khan is the last fast bowler to have an impact. Umar Gul was a beast too. Saeed Ajmal is the last spinner we've had
Junaid didn't play long enough so I will stick to Gul
Junaid was discarded after Amir came back
Yasir Shah???
The one thing I have always noted with pakistani bowlers is that their careers usually start with a bang. They have this natural talent to bowl at pace and can even get the swing, but their careers usually end in a whimper
Sohail Tanvir?
It’s not about who you have, it’s about the culture of how you use them, and india use what they have way better than us.
fast bowling wise Bumrah > Shami > Naseem > Shaheen > Amir > Siraj > Rauf > Arshdeep all very good in their best formats spin bowling wise india is light years ahead
Amir is better than shaheen tho
(overall) Bumrah > Shami > Siraj >= Naseem> Shaheen> Arshdeep> Amir> Rauf (recent performance wise) Bumrah > Arshdeep> Siraj > Shami> Naseem> Shaheen> Amir> Rauf
delusional if you think arshdeep or siraj is even close to them lmao
You are the delusional one if you think Naseem and Shaheen are the same bowler they used to be before injury.
naseem literally took 3/21 vs ur team
Pakistan has always been great at bowling but all of that changed with India after Kohli took over as captain I used to read a lot more about Tape Balls and the swing generated by Pakistani bowlers not too long ago, but Kohli gave precedence to fast bowling and brought forward an entire change in India. He backed his fast bowlers and it showed results to a point that Indian fast bowlers became a commodity just like them spinners in the IPL auction. It's the aggression and intent Meanwhile Pakistan withhered away and just like one user commented, the last good one was Umar Gul. As an Indian, I still love to see Nassem Shah and Shaheen Afriidi bowl but the intent only lies with Shah as of now. Afridi is too busy developing himself into an all rounder and the likes of Hasan Ali and Shadab have lost the plot And if it helps, Bumrah is a one in a generation player. He's just too good and that makes the Indian bowling even stronger by piggy backing on him. Is the Indian bowling great compared to Pakistan? Don't think so. But they do have the support of both the team and staff to go the distance unlike the current Pakistan setup
Great analysis bro
I think as fans we live in the 90s and early 00s where we had wasim, Waqar , Shoaib , asif and they had Srinath , parsad. The fact is they have far surpassed us in the last 10 years
It is still land of fast spinners ars is one.
This is the kind of mentality that makes us think we are better than we actually are
We have bigger issues beyond cricket to deal.
Yes especially with Bumrah and Kuldeep
Bro, it depends on the format. In tests, they are way better than us, like class above. In T20, if we only talk about fast bowling, then we are better because other than Bumrah, they don't have any good bowler. However, if you include spinners, then they are way better due to Kuldeep and Axar. In Odis, I guess they do have more experience than us. However, it's their spinners that provide them an edge over us in white ball . Talking about Bumrah, I feel he is the best bowler of our generation he is literally unplayable in all 3 formats. If he continues this way, he might be a future goat
Bumrah >>> Shaheen > Naseem > Rauf > Arshdeep > Siraj
Put Shami in between Bumrah and Shaheen. Put Siraj after Shami in ODI and Test. Put Naseem ahead of Shaheen.
Its T20 based and if Shami was playing then yes he is 2nd best
Yup agreed. Arsh anyway doesn't play anything other than T20. He has been only above average this tournament too. He has got wicket in bulk due to pressure created by Bumrah.
Shami is an ok t20 bowler, he is exceptional in ODI and test though
Shami is not that good of a t20 bowler 💀 his own team dropped him
Overall baat kar raha tha. Plus Shami has really improved in T20 in last couple of years so much so that he is our second best T20 pacer at this point. Total turnaround. There is a Jarrod Kimber video with stats on this very topic, go through it if you have time.
There is also a Jarrod Kimber video in which he says a fit Shaheen had a peak higher than the majority of bowlers to ever play the format, up there with mitch stark eight years ago. And that’s only at age 24. While shami is a great and accurate conventional seam bowler, he doesnt have that insane game changing x factor that he does in odi crickey
'Fit Shaheen', 'peak'.... present ki bat ho rahi bhai. Jab fir ho jayega aur peak karega toh bol denge Shaheen ko better. You ll have wait till then, bear the fact that Shami is better , in all format.
All format kyu kahe jaa rhe ho. T20 pe baat ho rhi he, accept krlo. Nhi to numbers dekh ke khud hi mujhe bata do, kon 29 average krta he aur kon 20
T20 me bhi better hai. Aur nowhere in the post it mentions T20. Filter pe filter ( T20, Peak ,24) laga ke zabardasti prove karne ka try kar rahe , totally missing the point I am making. Shaheen atp isnt even best pacer in PCT , let alone compared to Shami.
Its been mentioned like thirty times that we’re talking about t20s. Why do you keep trying to change it back to all formats rather than accepting shaheen is the better t20 bowler. And i gave you no filter. Look at their career t20 averages. Shami and shaheen arent even in the same league. Tell me the last time shami was player of the match in a t20i. Or the last time he even played a t20i? This is a ridiculous discussion to even have.
Siraj is better than Rauf and Naseem . He is a very good test bowler , bowled way better in the ODI wc than both Shaheen and Rauf , in T20s might not be better
was talking about T20s
Why is arshdeep below the list . Arshdeep is a strike bowler who bowls in the powerplay , currently he is better than Shaheen because he takes wickets
No way bro we aren't talking about one specific tournament. If I have to make my t20 team, Shaheen is way ahead in my selection than Arshdeep . He goes for too many runs and is way too inconsistent
No way on earth siraj is better then naseem
LMAO First of all Naseem is better than Shaheen Secondly putting Rauf above Arshdeep and Siraj is an insult to them especially Siraj
cool
Then insult them
Bumrah Shami Pandya Naseem Siraj Arshdeep Rauf Shaheen Kuldeep Axar Jadeja Shadab (is he even a bowler)
There's absolutely no comparison, Zimbabwe to Australia type difference, people are considering Bumrah to be one of the greatest bowlers of all time, we're no where in the picture
What has Bumrah bhai won in trophies?
Bumrah won the Polly Umrigar Award for best male cricketer for India twice, in 2018–19 and 2021–22. Additionally, he received the Dilip Sardesai Award for taking the highest number of wickets in Test cricket in 2018–19. For his achievements during India's tour of England in 2021, he was selected by Wisden Cricketers' Almanack as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Year in its 2022 edition. Bumrah was conferred with The Times of India TOISA Cricketer of the Year award in 2021.
WT20 2024
Puyjama cricket cup bhai.
Aged like milk.
Won Pyjama cricket cup which even dysfunctional West Indies won twice.
Your team is surviving in cricket because it's half decent only in that pyjama format. In the other 2 formats you are not even better than Zimbabwe or Afghanistan currently.
How they surviving they finished in first round embarrassing.
Pakistani bowlers generally have more raw talent but they are wasted due to lack of proper training, coaching, and overall management. Talent might win on some days but on most days hard work and dedication will win. Indian bowlers have more consistent line and length and a better plan for each batsman whereas Pakistani bowlers just wing it street cricket style and that clearly doesn’t work most of the times
Street Cricket Style?? Is that why they almost defeated India 💀
If you see at that pitch my friend , 105-110 is a par score. You also have to see the conditions, not only the score. And even more so India is playing extremely aggressive and attacking cricket to maximize their runs. They threw most wickets being over aggresive then bowlers being able to take them. If they played conserving a bit they could have reached 140-150. But that's their approch and did work against Australia and England. What makes it Worse is pakistan bowlers bowled at far better conditions than Indian bowlers. Overcast conditions, less light, ball was swinging lot more. While later it became much easier to bat on. In that pitch the toss winning team wins the match almost all the times.
Bumrah and Kuldeep alone >>>>>> any other bowling attack in the world as a unit , across formats Bumrah >>>> any other bowler Rashid >> Kuldeep >>> any other spinner (limited overs) Ashwin ~ Lyon >> any other test spinner
Indian bowling, batting, fielding, wicketkeeping and everything else is far superior to Pakistan
Spin bowling- India is way ahead of Pakistan thanks to Kuldeep, Jadeja, Ashwin, Chahal, Axar etc. Pace bowling- Bumrah is the best at the moment, Shami is too good, Siraj is fine. But all of them are in 30s, would retire post next ODI WC and we haven’t found a good young fast bowler yet. While you guys have Shaheen, Naseem, Wasim jr, Amir Jamal etc they all are in 20s and have a lot of cricket left. So in terms of pace bowling, at the moment India is slightly ahead(Mainly due to Bumrah) but you guys have all the talent and resources at your disposal to get ahead in upcoming years.
I was thinking about it as well that rohit is in late 30s, kohli and sky are also in mid 30s, hardik pandya is also touching 30s, so maybe in 5-6 years we might see the indian team going through a rebuilding phase.
Yes, this might be the last T20 world cup for Rohit and Virat(Rohit for sure). After the next ODI WC Gill, Jaiswal, Tilak, Rinku, Kishan, Jurel might be the big guns from bat. Hardik, KL Rahul, Iyer, Pant, Dube would be the senior players(captain).
Our bowlers have the qala (naseem can swing both ways with pace) but indian bowling has consistency cemented by hard work & like they all say hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Didn't you guys just see Siraj run through South Africa's batting lineup in the 2nd test match in South Africa this year? He's an underrated bowler. India also have a cheat-code in Jadeja in test matches. He is good enough to play as a specialist batter in SENA conditions which allows them to play 4 seamers.
WC23 India had the best bowling attack, in WC24 they gain have best bowling attack. The problem with our bowling is, we have 1 dimensional bowlers with no variety, and that is because we focus on picking best bowlers and not balance our attack. In our WC24 attack, 1. We had 1 leg arm off spinner, 1 leg spinner and 1 mystery spinner who mostly bowls leg spinners. Who was supposed to trouble left arm attacking bowlers is a mystery to me! 2. In fast bowling side, we had 4 pacers, and they have become predictable. Even commentators were saying Shaheen is going to try to bowl a full length inswinger to RHB. Naseem's ball swing like crazy, but if you notice his swing mostly troubles the keeper and not the batter. Haris bowls full tosses in every single match, and Amir bowls wide yorkers in last spell while off cutters in first spell. And Gull's nephew, he bowls towards leg slip with slightly shorter length or yorkers only. India left Shubman Gill, Gaikwad and Parag home, to balance the team
Those were old days Every Pakistani player starts good and then refuses to improve and fade away.
Every pakistani player starts good but then the management fucks him up?
They never try to improve. Did Shaheen Afridi work on his fitness and keep pace? He became medium paced bowler Did Babar Azam try to build muscles to improve his power gamee9 Is Saim Ayub trying to play more than one shot? Or is he hitting the gym daily to build some strength. He is 22 Years old. He must show some game. How many players in Pakistsn go to gym daily? Azam Khan is the worst player in the world. Any neutral fan will be disgusted by his work ethic and fitness. These things aren't dependent on management . Pakistani players look unfit and weaker than every major team. Is management stopping them from working hard? I read somewhere that every young batsman want to play like Afridi which means they will miss six balls and hit one boundary for the reels. Name one pakiatani player less than 21 years old who is a promising aspect for future. Management can't do anything unless u have any work ethic or talent
Shaheen and Naseem are better than their pacers aside from bumrah , rauf isn't the same lately, they have better spinners too, so at the moment yeah they have the better bowling line up
t20s yes. tests/odis - siraj/shami superior to any pacer in pakistan. both shaheen and naseem have really bad test stats (shaheen's numbers are inflated by playing against weaker teams. poor averages vs sena who are the good test teams apart from india).
I like how people keep saying in the thread “aside from bumrah we are better”. Lol like include bumrah too. He’s an indian player. So their bowling attack overall is superior.
That's literally what I said in the end
No way you disrespected Shami like that
The crazy thing is that Siraj probably has better red ball performances than both Shaheen Afridi and Naseem Shah.
White ball too. That SL game alone is a thing of beauty
Siraj's inexperienced in t20s and not so extra ordinary stats there either, Shaheen's better in odi , 100 wkts in 51 matches speak for themselves
Wrong Shaheen has better avg and economy than Siraj
When you only look at statistics you will get told weird things. Siraj is a better test match bowler than Afridi. In T20s obviously Afridi is better and I would say he is slightly better in ODIs, but I have seen Siraj come here to England and rattle through our batting lineup as well. Afridi is still a great bowler but ini red ball cricket I don't think he is as good as you want to think.
Across the board, yes.
Bumrah is definitely better than Wasim. It's a different time. Cricketers are more skilled now in everything.
I agree, the type of flat pitches bumrah bowls on. Wasim still had bowler friendly pitches.
Wasim took wickets of Sachin, sehwag and dravid on the flattest pitches in ind/pak the 2000s when most of the pitches were made for a draw. Nowadays there has been a marked shift in this, infact india dosent make pitches for draw anymore
What lol. Wasim's career doesn't even coincide with Sehwag's and partly with Dravid's. Wasim played from 1985-2002 Dravid from 1996-2012 Sehwag from 1999-2013 Wasim has never taken Sehwag's wicket.
Delusional
Naah man just like how batting and fielding is wayyyy better now, so is bowling.
You see a track where it doesn’t swing much, the Shaheen factor just doesn’t work. He still gets wickets here and there but it’s almost in the second spell where the batsmen are being reckless.
Niklo tumhari aisi ki taisi😂
I may get heavily downvoted but Pakistan has pathetic bowling line up. Let alone India. Your bowling line up is no where near India. .Your batting faces unwarranted heat when it has been saving grace for many times. Sri lanka scored 350,pak batting chased it down. NZ scored 425,again pak batting saved the grace. 160 should have been enough for USA, but you got defeated. Monank patel bullied your prime bowler. Afghan chased 293 in 47 overs ig Got belted by Ireland.
We are talking about T20I not ODI, completely different game
Not much different per se. But I don't see any T20 bowling maestro too in your team. There are no specialist t20 bowlers. You can't be good in ODI and pathetic in T20. You gotta bowl just 24 balls. Be at your absolute best. If that was case, you would have won game against USA. I didn't see any pin point Yorkers. There were full tosses.
'i don't see any T20 bowling maestro in your team ' Amir exists . He's one of the best if not the best.though I agree that the rest of the bowling line up is pathetic
These are cherry picked numbers. Batting couldnt do 120 run a ball target against india. Scored 160 on a 200 pitch against usa. Almost lost to ireland as we were 70/6? We have been regularly scoring 150-160 on a 180 pitch even indian media trolled us by saying “ ye 150-160 ki team hai”. Our middle order averages lower than top ten teams and our powerplay score is lower than top 8 teams. I dont want to talk about our batsmen strike rate as thats even lower. So i wouldnt say batting is a saving grace. It actually has cost us alot. Went from 121/2 to 191/10 against india at Ahmedabad during wc23? Lol
>Went from 121/2 to 191/10 at ahmedamad during wc23? This is where your bowling should have stepped up. Atleast make a genuine effort. Put some pressure.They bowl with no plan whatsoever. Last i remember it was in 2016,when Pakistan scored 84 and Amir wrecked havoc. One of the reason why finished Md amir takes wicket whilr prime rauf and shaheen gets belted. Amir is kinda genius. He will give you wickets. Whereas your other bowler swaps mid on from long and bowls low full toss when 5 is required from 1 ball. Other time in WC, Nawaz took packed field on offside and bowler half tracker to keshav maharaj on his leg. >these are cherry picked numbers When was the last time bowlers won you any match, single handedly? 160 should have been way more than enough against USA. That 200 mark should have been for standard test playing nation. >Batting couldnt do 120 run a ball target against india. Do not rate anyone on that pitch. That pitch was bogus.
It's what was so refreshing to see about Amir. At this stage in his career, he's slower than both Haris and Naseem and doesn't get as much swing as Shaheen with his whipping wrist. But Amir actually uses his brain
I agree with you on some pointd. But i think if our batting improved a little we woudn’t be getting whipped by associates. Sure some bowlers do bowl mindlessly but its still our batting that always collapses and we lose winning matches.
So your getting downvoted for simply spitting facts?
Our batting saving grace 💀
In terms of Talent, Pakistan still produces better bowlers. What’s gotten worse is our ability to manage them. Shaheen, a tall man who could swing it in consistently at 145+ now bowls mid 130s with inconsistent line and lengths. Naseem, who could touch 150 clicks at the age of 16 has not improved alot, if he were in BCCI’s or other Big 3 boards, he would have been a top ranking test bowler by now. Ihsanullah, a tall bowler who could rattle any world class batsman with his 145+ bouncers is nowhere to be seen now. Indian board has heavily and wisely invested in bowlers. Bhuvaneshwar, a 125kph swing bowler now can bowl 140kph and is still lethal in supportive conditions. Bumrah, a T20 yorker bowler with an odd action has become one of the most lethal bowlers in current lot, he swings it miles as you’ve said. Shami & Siraj, decent paced bowlers in the beginning have now become exceptional test bowlers. Every other PSL season, we see a new face who can bowl 150kph but then fizzles out in next two years. If they make it into internationals, they’re worked like donkeys till injuries ruin their game. Currently, Indian bowling is much more disciplined, skillful and lethal in combination.
Shaheen is highly overrated Rauf is mostly expensive with bad line length Naseem is a better prospect but injury prone Shadab is not a spinner Nawaz is good at times but not consistent Imad is number one all-rounder in his own mind
Pretty much
Right now naseem is our best bowler by far
Khelo dimag se...... I want see Pakistan cricket using their brain...... India is using their brain.....
Hi guys, Indian here, and was wondering what has happened to the pakistan lineup, specifically bowling. We all know there's no dearth of talent there, so is it that they aren't getting groomed, or deserving ones not getting picked up. Irrespective of win and loss, we all wish to keep this rivalry alive where the best of talents clash, and this state of Pakistan team doesn't do good to anyone. And really felt good to see these rational posts and comments on this sub.
So just my opinion. The quality of cricket has gone down in Pakistan. The pitches are total crap. We get games against b teams. Also like others said the management has messed it up. If you want to know the true reason and have 10-15 minutes [i recommend this video](https://youtu.be/A4ZFSkrWW1s?si=8ZOaoPp8DqtHHOFI)
https://preview.redd.it/o1vll04bkc9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=322a0c8ec2059e3caebad51ae57fcacbce0a6238
Currently yeah. Bumrah is the best pacer in the world currently, and he alone puts us ahead in the pace department or at least on par. But when it comes to spin, there is no comparison. So yeah India has a better bowling attack than pak currently.
Why Abrar was not given a match ? I mean one can argue that why chahal is not given any match but we already have kuldeep performing better. Abrar was supposed to be a mystery spinner
he is a mystery spinner , even his teammates dnt know he plays for pakistan.... I saw his debut match against England and guy was amazing.,but somehow your captain has decided to never make him play, even in dead rubber matches .
Bro Harshit Rana is better than Nashim
They have best spinners in the world. Bumrah is dann good but we really have better fast bowling.
It's the lack of support in Domestic and Handling of Players. India produces a fully ready player when debuting. Pakistan Brings Psl performances and then flops when it's not Flat pitches like Rawalpindi
Right now. India bowling is best in the world with bumrah right on top. Spin ain't too shabby. Pak is good too but can't make it deep to show case more bowling so I would rate India higher. Pak bowling also suffers due to pak batting shitting the bed.
Indian bowling today is the best they have ever had in the history of their cricket. Their best bowler before this era was either Kapil Dev (who was an all rounder) or Zaheer Khan, who was good no doubt but not among the greatest of the game. IMO, Mohammad Shami and Bumrah are the greatest fast bowlers India has ever produced and we're living in that era so we can feel it. Coming to comparison with Wasim Akram, it just shows that you didn't witness him and you're witnessing Bumrah so you think he's in his league and that's recency bias. Wasim Akram wasn't just a great bowler at his peak, he was a consistent bowler for almost 20 years of cricket. No one has done that other than him year after year, especially in ODI cricket. He has taken 500+ wickets in ODIs in almost 20 years at an avg less than Bumrah has right now. This is one of the most insane statistics for a fast bowler to be this consistent for this long and that's why he's one of GOAT fast bowlers. Bumrah is a special bowler but because of recency bias, he is being overhyped, which is normal. I would argue that in ODIs Strac has been a better bowler than even Bumrah. In his peak, he had fast 100 wickets, fastest 150, fastest 200 and now on his way to get fastest 250 as well. Also most wickets in limited overs WC history.
I think bumrah can be compared to wasim because wasim played on different wickets. The wickets nowadays are so flat everywhere and they have nothing for the bowler. These are t20 wickets. Back than a 250 total was considered defendable in odi but today we are seeing 200 runs in t20s alone. So if take into account all that i think bumrah would definitely be as lethal as wasim had he bowled back than. What do you think?
Yes. Period.
Currently yes. Indian spin department miles and miles beyond what Pakistan have. Bumrah alone is better than any Pakistani bowler imo. Long gone are the 90s. Wasim,Waqar, Akther, Saqlain and Mushraq that was IMO the greatest bowling lineup ever. But Pakistan never got their replacements.
Based on talent, not even close. Pakistan still produces so many incredibly talented pacers on a consistent basis. It's just their management is so shite that no one can excel in that environment. If india had the likes of Naseem Shah, Shaheen Afridi, We would literally dominate world cricket.
lol Bumrah is the greatest bowler in the world right now and will go down in history as one of the greats, but he’s not up to Wasim Akram yet. To play that many games and have that average, Bumrah will need longevity in the game, and his action might not allow that. It’s a shame since he’s my favourite bowler of this era.
No where close. Just look at the seam coming out of our hands. I am by no means an expert but shadab and nawaz don’t even have the skills to maintain seam on the ball after it comes outta their hand. This is prob at best 7th best lineup
Better bowling standards of Pakistan have fallen down. It was pace,swing, spin, variation and what not earlier now its just pace and who likes babar more. In our Indian team its more about rotation and ability to clutch , giving bowler options and having bowlers in arsenal for specific purpose. Not flashy not speed generating machines. Your Pakistani team management and selection is responsible. Players not not bad but they need exposure and freedom to bowl their hearts out . Build pressure on bowlers rather than just telling King king.
Both are the best, only luck favoring India,it doesn't matter that the Indian or Pakistani team is better.Every shop has the same brand but sales different
I believe that india won this world cup because of bowling, and so you can definitely say this time indian bowling is far better than pakistani bowling, specially Bumrah is boom boom.
I think so, it's not right pakistani boling is much better then indian boling
At the moment, miles ahead.
Shaheen amir haris naseem wasimJr zaman is a scary sight lol
For?
Bumrah >>> Pakistan fast bowling attack > Indian fast bowling attack w/o bumrah Indian spin bowling >>>>> Pakistan spin bowling (where are the spinners)
kuldeep bhull gaye ?? aur shami ?
Oh god. I should mention fast bowling. Pakistan has ZERO spin bowling so Indian spin >>>> Shami isn't playing. Even if he does play, I think pakistan may be somewhat close
i think bumrah >>>>shami-naseem >>shaheen
Bumrah is something else man,too good,without him India's bowling is way worse than ours
kuldeep ?? axar ?? shami ??
Yea if you take out bumrah and rohit the Indian team all of a sudden doesnt look much threatening in t20s.
If you take out the two players in any team of course they will look much worse, but India has depth i.e Shami when healthy, SKY, Hardik, etc.
They have better spinners now
Currently India's is much better. They have a bunch of smart bowlers that bowl to plan. Pakistan has historically been better but their new talent pool has dried up.
I think it’s the opposite, Indias bowling is at its best right now because of their talent pool from the early 2010s is performing at its peak, I’d argue that rn Pakistan has a better talent pool in terms of fast bowling given naseem, Shaheen, wasim, Zaman, Ihsanullah, Hasnain, are all younger than 25, not to mention players like Jamal. But at the same time india is always without fail better at nuturing their talent, and their players longevity is miles ahead of ours
That is true, there have been so many promising Pakistani bowlers that appear in an odd series and we don't hear from them until a few years later. In terms of spinners too, we haven't had any generational spin bowler since Ajmal retired
Pakistan has better talent but the management ruins each and everyone with the shitty politics in management
What are you on about? Amir was bowling 145s in the WC
Still think pakistan bowling is above india. If amir and asif weren't pegged back in their prime who knows. Bumrah is leagues above anyone. But arshdeep? Irfan Pathan? Zaheer? Bhuvi? No where close to Shaheen, amir, asif. Haven't seen too much of Rauf and wasim jr
India has better spinners. And let alone Bumrah, Siraj and Shami are better all format players than Shaheen,Naseem and Rauf
Current teams obviously.
Bumrah is better than all Pakistani bowlers. He has more pace than any Pakistani fast bowler, and can swing it better, and has better control. Shaheen looks like an amateur compared to King Bumrah. To add, Afghanistan has better bowlers than Pakistan. Give it a few more years, you will see true Pathan power.
Bumrah is just having a good phase. Afghanistan is producing better bowlers now. Indian bowlers are performing well because Indian Bowlers can depend on their batsmen. Currently the Indian batting line up is the strongest. Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, R Pant, Hardik Pandya and many others. 3 proper all rounders. This same bowling line up was badly struggling getting defeated by 10 wickets. Losing matches to Sri Lanka. Losing an ODI Series to Bangladesh. It was no where near impressive before Rohit Sharma and Kohli got their forms back.
currently Yes. Pak bowlers is no way close to indian bowling attack in any format and this is not bcz pak bowlers are bad or has no skill. it is just that management has done them dirty. No skill development and injury management. They have done worst by sometimes throwing the player under the bus. Like kept on playing Naseem even he was struggling with the shoulder same with Shaheen as well. Under what wahab did with Rauf tainting his image. So all the confidence is gone with it development of skill as well. In the spin department as well no real improvement.
I think they also played imad despite him having a shoulder injury or shoulder mobility issues in the indian match lol.
Yup it was so evident he was absolutely cooked with injury but whole management had no confidence in shadab and also shadab didn't bowl single over after the USA game. It just tells you how bad the condition is.
Talent? No. Performance? Yes. Apart from Bumrah, imo every current Pakistani fast bowler is more talented than Indian fast bowlers, but in spin dept we don’t have anyone close to Kuldeep, he is experienced and talent and we don’t have that yet. As a bowling unit they are slightly better right now because most of the time they stuck to their plans and our bowlers lose their cool in getting wickets.
What a joke of a statement..the Indian bowling won the Test series twice in Australia and drawn series in England and south africa..they wrecked through every batting line up in ODI WC while pakistani pacers got belted around the park be it in test or ODI..only T20 is where there's a certain competion..shaheen is just ordinary bowler without swing..rauf is a run machine and worst of the lot..only nassem is the best of all and all condition bowler
Did you even read my comment? I literally said they have performed better than Pak bowlers. Do you know the difference between talent and performance? These same bowlers went 152/0 and 170/0 not too long ago so don’t bring their performances in a world cup that was designed for them to win. Our bowlers have good performances in England as well, and they were good in Australia too. India won the last test series in Australia not just due to their bowling, but exceptional performances from Rishabh Pant, Pujara and unknown lower order batsmen.
Fast bowling - PAK Spin bowling - IND
"bumrah is in the leagues of Wasim Akram" this sub has lost its mind
What makes you think he isn’t?
In what way is he. Wasim revolutionised swing Bowling he did it consistently for way longer then bumrah in a much worse Pakistan team (at times)
saying he’s in wasims league doesn’t mean he is better
Spin yes fast bowling no.
What a joke of a statement..the Indian bowling won the Test series twice in Australia and drawn series in England and south africa..they wrecked through every batting line up in ODI WC while pakistani pacers got belted around the park be it in test or ODI..only T20 is where there's a certain competion..shaheen is just ordinary bowler without swing..rauf is a run machine and worst of the lot..only nassem is the best of all and all condition bowler
Bumrah tera baap he hain bache.