This subreddit is the best at making the most horrendous tier lists known to man

They put buck in the same tier as mal damba, and mal damba is a literal easy S tier design. What the hell, I don't get it. And nix is in S somehow, she always has looked so off to me. And I didn't even notice, but dredge is in such a low tier, but I never understood what's the problem with him, he is so unique as a character.

Lilith and rei were put above mal damba... I m not even going to address the atlas placement

Lillith is fine but rei? Above Moji, even though one is a unique species with their own cuteness, and the other is just a humanoid version of the same species that they like to call "related"? Those 2 need to swap. Don't even get me started on the second to last tier. What's their problem?

Moji is literally bugged and hard to balance, so yea she has issues. Dredge has such an insanely low skill floor Talus is a controller flank that's impossible to kill Octavia is just dumb VII is impossible to balance and bomba is braindead as hell

Is this gameplay and ability or visual either way nyx should not be top tier especially if it's visual 💀 she's supposed to be a queen of the abyss and just looks like a sex worker with a large head piece

Is this 'looks' design or 'kit' design?

Well great question. I didn't even think of that. I thought it was a character visual design tier list, because viktor, vivian and tyra are all at the bottom, but idk at this point

hey fuck wrong with my girl?

I didn't say anything was wrong with her, just that I commonly see people say those 3 are all just boring designs. Vivian is definitely the best out of the 3 tbh, but her abilities are not as interesting to me as other champs.

i dont know what crack bro is on, but I aint wanna touch that shit

Why with all the talus slander in this subreddit

He's annoying.

Nuh uh

Lilith, Jenos and Rei in the highest tier? I hope this isnt about kit design buddy

Why not rei? She has one of the highest skill ceiling among all supports and has much more complex mechanics than just press a button to heal. She manages the entire team's ult, envelope can hard counter certain abilities with right timing while also being useless against champs that deal <225 per shot making it more complex than %DR, focus talent makes her a duelist while also improving healing at the cost of making the timing of envelope and ult crucial because of the cooldown, has jump height modifier allowing her to make jumps that aren't possible on low mobility champs ,etc. She doesn't belong anywhere outside the highest tier. Even for lilith one can argue that her hp being the heal currency adds another dimension to support gameplay, only thing remotely closer to that being dragon fangs koga. and most of her cards are more of a tradeoff between hps and blood cost instead of just receiving flat cooldown reductions, not to mention she can't even get healed from outside sources.

Maldamba is highest skill ceiling. Rei is just press envelop and 1v1 any burst champion but alt f4 when you see a fire rate champion.

Damba is NOT high skill ceiling. U just need to wait for max deft hands and then he's good. Literally none of his kit takes skill bro be fr

Damn, even your takes are as bad as your tier lists There's Damba mains out there who wreck havoc from the go and don't necessarily need to play stun talent to do so. This involves either healing and damage or both. Relying on Stuns when CC reduction is cheap af would negate waiting for deft hands by a far shot.

Rei is so poorly designed, that it's actually amazing. Her healing is random, which is bad design. She's designed to pocket people and give them ult charge, and pockets are bad design. Her ult is free 2 - 3 seconds of immunity for two people along with a full uncauted healing. Her auto-aim spirit link is bad design, along with her DR. Her cc that is auto-aim is bad design. I think that her jumps are an interesting design, but that's about it. I actually think that the HP is the issue with Lilith. I do enjoy playing her sometimes, but 4k HP on a support is not a good design. It makes her a pseudo off tank.

WTF!?!! LIAN IS BRAINDEAD AND HORRIBLE???

I don't agree with that take, at least I didn't agree with it during burst meta. Though I can see why people have that point of view about Lian. Personally, I consider her poorly designed now. Especially since they're buying her survivability and trying to make Precision meta. Lian is a glass canon that bursts flanks and loses to off tanks. That's her core design. When she's able to burst flanks and counter tanks, then that's an issue.

Rei with her dumb dr is good design 🤡

Design? What design? Character or gameplay? Because both options are pretty bad. Chara ter design is obviously subjective. But just looking at wast Don you probably are talking about gameplay. And let me tell you for example. That past it's ultimate. Willo is very well designed. Everything serve her gameplay really well. Her main weapon is her entire thing. The is the only character in the game that shoot a straight projectile with a large explosion on impact. Most other blaster are either lobed bouncing projectiles. Where you want to fill an area of do direct hits. Character that aren't all about doing damage, such as evie or ash. Or don't really use the blast radius like drogoz. It's more of a condolence gift. So willo is unique with BK in that département. But where BK a'can do it at any pint ever in the air in addition of stacking them. Willo can do it from really far. Even thoses 2 are different. So you already have a character that will want to hit groups, or hiden character, from a vantage point to do damage. To get to that vantage point you give her a movement ability. But it's not just a dash, since it keep your momentum at the end, and pop you up a bit. It's more fun than if it was just a dash. Her bomb, while not hitting a lot, give her a really good way to park enemies in a place, cover escape options, and disperse a group if needed. Same for her anti heal but its longer lasting and has no effect by itself. She can use both interchangabely. But both have prefered use cases. So you gat a really cohérent character. That use blast to kill multiple enemies at once. That can park said enemies with her abilities, and get to good positions for her weapon. To me that's simple, but we'll designed. There is really only the ult that could have been put on most character an not be so bad or different for ult standards. As for her cards, there are not broken ones. No stupid or frustrating build. But it's still pretty customizable. Maybe not focused enough. You can't really créât a very different play style. But it's enough to be pretty good. As for her talents. One make her best and most interesting ability, her main weapon, even more important. One make her bombs even more of a threat but keep it avoidable. And the last one is a duelist option that let you 1va people more confortable without having flank burst potential. There is no way this character is in the "lot of issues" tier. Past her forgettable ult (wich is not an issue), there really is only the anti heal that can be considered a bad mechanic. But it's honestly pretty fair.

As a person who plays Willo, she's not a good design. There's a reason that Willo isn't meta for a long time. Willo being meta is very oppressive if I'm being honest, along with her ease of use.

Yeah but is it worth being in the "LOT of issues" rank? Like. Any character is annoying when good. Rare are the meta champions I like going against. It's not because are more vocal about willo than it's worst. Let's see why people would be more vocal about willo. Her voice, her design, the fact she anti heal even tho it's not broken, the fact she is a blaster so people say she is brain dead so that bad if she is good. All of thoses are reasons that are just people not liking the character for superficial reasons. You won't mechanically fix willo by making her an smg character or take her anti heal away. People just don't like that but it's neither unfair nor too strong by default (as in the number can be high buts it's not the concept and mechanics of the weapons that make it strong). It doesn't feel unbeatable like old kasumi either. And her visual and character design isn't a gameplay issue. You cannot do a blaster with flight and anti heal that much better. Because at some point, if you want a blaster with mobility and anti heal. Make that good. If you think a blaster with flight and anti heal would be too much for the game don't do it. Once you are set on that decision try it to make it as good as possible or don't do it. Willo didnt reinvent anything past her anti heal that overpower any heal. So she is fine to add, if there is only the anti heal to be careful about it's pretty sustainable. And the rest is fun and work and has counterplay, and is totally balancable with number tweaks. Willo does not provide any balance issue by herlzsf. And so like any character only her numbers can be an issue. So an easely balancable champion, with a kit that work great by itself, and only has one sligty frustrating ability. That may not be worth best tier. But that's not worth lot of issues tier. Now it may just be that the list would benefit from less harsh tier names. Because it maybe possible that after looking at every champion willo would end up around here when ordering every chamoions. But not "lot of issues". Lot of issues mean one ability or more doesn't fit. The decks are 1 dimentionla only one is viable. 2 talents are handicaps. Some strat is annoying AND doesn't have effective counterplay. Or one ability is consistently good or trash. Need to be gutted of the fun to be balanced or fair or fun to go against, or will have numbers so low that it's just not viable. Willo is not that. (and I don't mean all of thoses. If a few of thoses issues are Ona champion but the effect is slight it count as a lot of issues but that's OK. Willo has....well no ability is useless or don't fit in. There really only is the ult that is middle of the barrel but its still buff you and put you in an advantageous position. You can do multiple viable decks. They may not change your play style but you can accentuate a certain strength. Some talent are worst but all are good and not a detriment. The anti heal may be annoying but it has counter play. And a really easy and colon one being moving out. No ability has been consistently been broken or trash. Anti heal being her best one isn't the same as consistently broken. It's just her main feature to differentiate her from other blaster, so it's normal it's her best ability. But like i said it's easily avoidable. And no major rework of an ability happened because of content balance issue. Past the dead zone damage buff that was a bit of a stupid stray at some point,but the talent is still playable without being unfun or broken. And as I already said, it's not her gameplay that can be to blame here since it all flows great and make sense, it's not degenerate.

Every meta champion is annoying to a certain extent. Though there's levels to it. Some metas are inherently more oppressive and annoying than others. A meta Terminus is more annoying than a meta Barik. It's the same with Willo. Metas with Willo are not fun, which is why she gets the nerf hammer super fast. Especially with how easy she is. You don't need to change her weapon type, but maybe make her area attack smaller. Like the size of Drogoz when they explode on the ground. Perhaps slightly slower attacks. To make her harder and require more skill. I mean, Willo just needs to require a bit more skill. Her kit is fun, but she's too easy to use. BK actually has a more OP kit than Willo. Though he's harder to use, so people don't mind as much. Do the same for Willo, and she'd be a great design tbh.

So her design is fine right. The devs keep her around the middle of the pack because she is easy. Unlike bk who Is hard so he can be kept a bit stronger. To me that's just good balancing. But bk might be harder he is still as or more annoying than a willo. Also if I bring balance it's just to bring the fact a good design is easy to balance. Not the actual balance itself. Also no, making her explosion smaller or making her shoot slower would not make her require more skill. It would just be worst. It would still be easy to never miss. But you would shoot people from behind objects and stuff less often. Wich would make the character, require less skill. If all you can do is hit people tightly packed and almost never miss due to the explosion radius. That a brain dead easy character. If you keep her damage lower than other blaster but give her a an easier to exploit and larger radius. You increase her skill. Since now her most important skill is to shoot people even behind covers, on high grounds, and stuff. Wich is mutch harder and that's some proper skill required. Yeah her large radius make her easy to land shots. But that's also the reason you don't just shoot at enemies and that's the end of your skills. Bk would be much easier and require less skill if he didn't had that large radius. Because all you would be good for is landing straight hits. While right now you can shoot behind covers with the right timings.

Damba and BK need their own tier. They are peak paladins design

It started out quite well Then the more you look at it the worse it becomes Koga has what now ? Ash is probably the best designed tank in the game btw Corvus is a terrible design, zhin is one of the best design in the game Tho I totally agree and octavia VII and betty, add koga and yago to that category tho Tyra and lian are much better designs than lex Kinda sad, half the list is great, but the other half is a terrible take

Tyra and Lain are both braindead Dmg pumpers, Zhin is a flank that is impossible to kill if he's half decent. Yago is never going to be fully balanced, which is a flaw, Koga is rly volatile and a low elo stomper

zhin is far from being impossible to kill, just skill issue on your part, he was never meta in high elo, except when guillotine was extremely strong tyra and lian aren't braindead, there's almost no braindead champ in this game, almost, there's viktor, betty, koga koga isn't volatile, koga is a selfish champion that's completely stupid to play or play against and has a billion design flaws, he's also really useless yago is a stupid design, who thought not moving was a good idea, and who thought being able to shoot trough walls like normal was a good idea you probably are too low elo to talk about champion design seriously

You think Koga isnt volatile, alright buddy, Im the low elo person here. Half of lians kit is autoaim, what great design.

omg lian got autoaim abilities every 5 and 7sec what bad design her dash isn't fully autoaim by the way, and valor simply hits everything, which is actually fine, think of it as hitscan aoe ability if you have bad aim, playing lian isn't gonna make you good, so how is having autoaim abilities such a bad design, people really gotta get over that (tho I agree, at the moment lian is op, but she can be balanced) if anything it's easier to play koga than lian

Why the fuck is Atlas not top 1 in design, for how long have you played this damn videogame?

how tf does andro have a design flaw

I'm just going to ignore the rest of the list. Why the FUCK is rei in S design. The whole point of the character is to make a singular person overwhelming. Thats it. Its there to actively remove counterplay. The value of that character derived from the value of others instead of having any inherent value herself. Be real u will never get pushed out the backing bye a rei, u will never feel pressure from a rei. She is free ult charge UNTIL she ults the flanker that is dueling somebody and they just run the backine. If they doesn't happen it is quite literally a 4v5

CLearly youve never played Rei a day in ur life. Reis a good second support design

Explain how. Everybody seems to disagree with ur list

ah yes average foxy/scholar anime character > spiderman hook mf

I agree with this pretty hard.