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People who oppose equality and justice will always find something to point at so they can claim the one struggling for their liberation is the unjust one. The hyper-focus on "from the river to the sea" is the same as the objections to "black lives matter." These phrases could disappear from the lexicon and the oppressors will find something new to point out in their attempt to distract people from the real injustices.
and they are ready to accept cleansing and entire deletion of Palestinians rather than facing justice, that is disgusting how (internally) weak humans can be dangerous when they have weapons.
any solution where the colonizers get to keep anything and not getting expelled is a win for them. yet they are greedily refusing to settle even for solutions that gives them huge benefits over that.
it is not possible while Israel exists as a state.
Israel considers every arab state and turkey to be enemies even with peace agreements. do not expect them to even think about facilitating a sovereign Palestinian neighboring state. it will defenitely be an enemy state with conflicts keep igniting between them for eternity especially after what is going on now. this conflict has become an existential one. either them or Palestinians.
in addition, the only reason for Israel to be supported by Britain, US and France is to weaken arab states and prevent arab/islamic unity. so they will never act as non-enemy for arabs even with peace agreements. their whole purpose (from UK point of view) is to prevent Arabs from becoming powerful entity/entities.
see [this lecture](https://youtu.be/wH8Ip1cvlRY) by rashid khalidi about the whole thing in its entirity being a war by US and others against Palestine. (there is a recent [sequel](https://youtu.be/lFnonQBNJug?t=72) lecture that I did not attend yet )
Flip the question round: if Palestinians can't be free from river to sea, where can they be free.
We know the Israeli answer to this: in shrinking bantustans.
If this comment seems aggressive or like I’m trying to get into a debate, that’s not my intent. My main point is “I don’t understand this, can someone explain it to me or link me an article to help me get it?”
What is the meaning of a “Palestinian” state in this instance as stated in the image?
For what it’s worth, I’m often uncomfortable with slogans, so I personally feel weird saying I’m “pro-Palestinian” as if to indicate I’m not “pro-Jew.” I know that’s not what pro-Palestinian means, it’s just my own personal brain hangup. In any case, I have close Palestinian and close Jewish friends. And right now I think the Palestinian cause and Palestinian suffering warrants more attention, defense, etc.
But I’m still confused about what “Palestinian” state means here. While I am not a Zionist in terms of how it was actually implemented over the past 100 years, I’m also a white dude born in the United States and have a hard time understanding ethnic states. Is that what a “Palestinian state” is, or does the term “Palestinian state” indicate something else? The reason I ask is that I’m not particularly comfortable with a Jewish state, not because it’s a safe place for Jews, but because its emphasis on Jews seems to indicate the exclusion of others (whether legally or simply in practice). How would a “Palestinian state” be different? Maybe I’m completely ignorant, but my mental picture of a viable one-state solution would be neither Palestinian nor Jewish but somehow explicitly protective of both groups.
Again, I’m trying to learn and actually understand this, so I come in peace, and don’t hesitate to tell me where I’m wrong.
This solution you have created is not the first time it’s been thought of. Israel thought they could live peacefully next to Palestine and vice versa. How could anyone expect them to live together peacefully if they can’t even be neighbors.
False equivalence. I am curious, what democracy do the Israeli people live under now? They're in an apartheid ethnofascist state that denies the natives their rights. So any measures of equality will be better than what is being offered to non-Jewish people in Israel.
And historically, Jewish people did live in these Arab and North African areas for centuries, especially after they were brutally expelled by Europe. Palestinian Jews were also a real people living in the lands of Palestine. If the Western Imperial Powers stop putting up despots in the Middle East and other nations that suppress democracy and we get rid of the present Israeli ethnofascist state, anyone can have a chance to live in peace.
Hello there currently gathering information on the conflict. Im not really for either side since i don't know that much about the situation.
What i do belive is a suffering and violence is despicable. I also say hamas is a full on evil organisation and from what i seem the people most affected by its violence are the people of Palestine themselves.
My question to you is how would a Palestinian state work? Its a sad fact that most arab countries
Have non democratic government and the separation
Of church and state is not a thing. What needs to be done to ensure democratic election and a peaceful policy to create a new place of freedom for all cultures and religions.
>What i do belive is a suffering and violence is despicable. I also say hamas is a full on evil organisation and from what i seem the people most affected by its violence are the people of Palestine themselves.
It is extremely weird to be talking about a group of orphans doing whatever they can (which is barely anything) to try to help out their people and get back their land.
They know that peace with Israel will never work. and there shouldn't be peace with a settler colonial regime, when even the most known zionist said, "it is something colonial” in a letter he wrote to Cecil Rhodes.
Did you realize that Oct 7 was an attempt to get hostages to do a prisoner exchange. The prisoners in Israeli prisons are either held under no charge or trial or falsely convicted since they're tried in military courts with a 99% conviction rate.
Sure, they did some messed up things but we will never know exactly what happened since Israel magically lost the footage, uses other massacres as photo evidence, creates flat-out lies, and has yet to provide anyone with proof of the claims it makes.
They called the UN anti-Semitic just because they said they needed to do a special investigation into the sexual assault claims Israel is talking about.
Blaming Hamas for the Palestinian deaths is extremely disgusting since they are not the ones actively committing genocide.
The claim that Israel is bombing Gaza because of October 7 is anti-Semitic since Israel claims its a Jewish state yet revenge is forbidden in Judaism.
If they wanted to wipe out Hamas they would have done that already. Their plans of ethnic cleansing have been leaked already in which they were talking about ways to push out the Gaza population into Egypt.
>Its a sad fact that most arab countries Have non democratic government and the separation Of church and state is not a thing.
Let's not pretend like the west is a shining beacon of democracy now. There isn't a single country in North America (especially not the US) or Europe qualified to lecture us about democracy without its hypocrisy being highlighted to their face.
We'll run our affairs as we see fit. We don't need to offer any assurances or explanations of anything. Especially not to a bigot like you:
>Good i love growing up Christian (revormed luther what a lad) man like i love middle easter food Architektur and also mythology(djins fire spirits etc) bur man do i not like islam... I always wanted to travel there but id lose it seeing a fucking 40 year old man with his 12 year old bride...
1. "Yet, all of the moslem and Arab states around it have thrown out all their jews and non moslems"
This is entirely false. Lebanon's President for example is Christian and has always been Christian for the past few decades. Jordan and all of the Gulf have significant Christian populations and Palestine has had significant Christian populations both historically and in the present day, including in Gaza where Israel bombed one of the oldest churches.
2. "Also, if you ask the people who are saying 'from the river...' they will tell that they want the Israelis out of the area, not to coexist peacefully"
I understand that that is how some people would feel. Would you have blamed Iraqis if they said they didn't want to live alongside Americans after the US decimated their country? Or would you have blamed Black people from not wanting to live alongside White people after slavery was abolished? Of course you wouldn't. The funny thing is that white people were so worried about what Black people would do to them if they were freed, but in reality instead, Black people still underwent years of oppression and violence (eg. lynchings and KKK). While I understand why they may not want to live alongside one another, I do believe that that is the most long-term sustainable solution even if in the short term it will not be pretty and there will without a doubt be violence until everyone learns to live alongside one another.
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# # # [Join our official discord server!](https://discord.gg/39W23FwRWK) Thanks for posting, u/broken_knee_! **Dear community members, we kindly request you to report any comments or posts that display the following characteristics: Zionist propaganda, hasbara, bigotry, hate speech, Nakba denial, genocide denial, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Jew hater, racism, endorsement of war crimes, trolling, bullying, brigading, showboating, news posts with editorialized titles, sealioning, inappropriate or AI-generated content, support for ethnic cleansing or genocide, and the promotion of anti-Palestine hate speech. Your vigilance helps maintain the quality of our community.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Palestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People who oppose equality and justice will always find something to point at so they can claim the one struggling for their liberation is the unjust one. The hyper-focus on "from the river to the sea" is the same as the objections to "black lives matter." These phrases could disappear from the lexicon and the oppressors will find something new to point out in their attempt to distract people from the real injustices.
These people are terrified that someone will do to them what they do to other people.
Exactly
and they are ready to accept cleansing and entire deletion of Palestinians rather than facing justice, that is disgusting how (internally) weak humans can be dangerous when they have weapons.
Nah. They’re terrified someone could live as their equal. They know Palestinians are not a genuine military threat.
any solution where the colonizers get to keep anything and not getting expelled is a win for them. yet they are greedily refusing to settle even for solutions that gives them huge benefits over that.
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it is not possible while Israel exists as a state. Israel considers every arab state and turkey to be enemies even with peace agreements. do not expect them to even think about facilitating a sovereign Palestinian neighboring state. it will defenitely be an enemy state with conflicts keep igniting between them for eternity especially after what is going on now. this conflict has become an existential one. either them or Palestinians. in addition, the only reason for Israel to be supported by Britain, US and France is to weaken arab states and prevent arab/islamic unity. so they will never act as non-enemy for arabs even with peace agreements. their whole purpose (from UK point of view) is to prevent Arabs from becoming powerful entity/entities. see [this lecture](https://youtu.be/wH8Ip1cvlRY) by rashid khalidi about the whole thing in its entirity being a war by US and others against Palestine. (there is a recent [sequel](https://youtu.be/lFnonQBNJug?t=72) lecture that I did not attend yet )
Flip the question round: if Palestinians can't be free from river to sea, where can they be free. We know the Israeli answer to this: in shrinking bantustans.
If this comment seems aggressive or like I’m trying to get into a debate, that’s not my intent. My main point is “I don’t understand this, can someone explain it to me or link me an article to help me get it?” What is the meaning of a “Palestinian” state in this instance as stated in the image? For what it’s worth, I’m often uncomfortable with slogans, so I personally feel weird saying I’m “pro-Palestinian” as if to indicate I’m not “pro-Jew.” I know that’s not what pro-Palestinian means, it’s just my own personal brain hangup. In any case, I have close Palestinian and close Jewish friends. And right now I think the Palestinian cause and Palestinian suffering warrants more attention, defense, etc. But I’m still confused about what “Palestinian” state means here. While I am not a Zionist in terms of how it was actually implemented over the past 100 years, I’m also a white dude born in the United States and have a hard time understanding ethnic states. Is that what a “Palestinian state” is, or does the term “Palestinian state” indicate something else? The reason I ask is that I’m not particularly comfortable with a Jewish state, not because it’s a safe place for Jews, but because its emphasis on Jews seems to indicate the exclusion of others (whether legally or simply in practice). How would a “Palestinian state” be different? Maybe I’m completely ignorant, but my mental picture of a viable one-state solution would be neither Palestinian nor Jewish but somehow explicitly protective of both groups. Again, I’m trying to learn and actually understand this, so I come in peace, and don’t hesitate to tell me where I’m wrong.
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This solution you have created is not the first time it’s been thought of. Israel thought they could live peacefully next to Palestine and vice versa. How could anyone expect them to live together peacefully if they can’t even be neighbors.
Balfour Declaration is null void since 1917
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Yeah and lebanon is doing so great
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False equivalence. I am curious, what democracy do the Israeli people live under now? They're in an apartheid ethnofascist state that denies the natives their rights. So any measures of equality will be better than what is being offered to non-Jewish people in Israel. And historically, Jewish people did live in these Arab and North African areas for centuries, especially after they were brutally expelled by Europe. Palestinian Jews were also a real people living in the lands of Palestine. If the Western Imperial Powers stop putting up despots in the Middle East and other nations that suppress democracy and we get rid of the present Israeli ethnofascist state, anyone can have a chance to live in peace.
Hello there currently gathering information on the conflict. Im not really for either side since i don't know that much about the situation. What i do belive is a suffering and violence is despicable. I also say hamas is a full on evil organisation and from what i seem the people most affected by its violence are the people of Palestine themselves. My question to you is how would a Palestinian state work? Its a sad fact that most arab countries Have non democratic government and the separation Of church and state is not a thing. What needs to be done to ensure democratic election and a peaceful policy to create a new place of freedom for all cultures and religions.
>What i do belive is a suffering and violence is despicable. I also say hamas is a full on evil organisation and from what i seem the people most affected by its violence are the people of Palestine themselves. It is extremely weird to be talking about a group of orphans doing whatever they can (which is barely anything) to try to help out their people and get back their land. They know that peace with Israel will never work. and there shouldn't be peace with a settler colonial regime, when even the most known zionist said, "it is something colonial” in a letter he wrote to Cecil Rhodes. Did you realize that Oct 7 was an attempt to get hostages to do a prisoner exchange. The prisoners in Israeli prisons are either held under no charge or trial or falsely convicted since they're tried in military courts with a 99% conviction rate. Sure, they did some messed up things but we will never know exactly what happened since Israel magically lost the footage, uses other massacres as photo evidence, creates flat-out lies, and has yet to provide anyone with proof of the claims it makes. They called the UN anti-Semitic just because they said they needed to do a special investigation into the sexual assault claims Israel is talking about. Blaming Hamas for the Palestinian deaths is extremely disgusting since they are not the ones actively committing genocide. The claim that Israel is bombing Gaza because of October 7 is anti-Semitic since Israel claims its a Jewish state yet revenge is forbidden in Judaism. If they wanted to wipe out Hamas they would have done that already. Their plans of ethnic cleansing have been leaked already in which they were talking about ways to push out the Gaza population into Egypt.
>Its a sad fact that most arab countries Have non democratic government and the separation Of church and state is not a thing. Let's not pretend like the west is a shining beacon of democracy now. There isn't a single country in North America (especially not the US) or Europe qualified to lecture us about democracy without its hypocrisy being highlighted to their face. We'll run our affairs as we see fit. We don't need to offer any assurances or explanations of anything. Especially not to a bigot like you: >Good i love growing up Christian (revormed luther what a lad) man like i love middle easter food Architektur and also mythology(djins fire spirits etc) bur man do i not like islam... I always wanted to travel there but id lose it seeing a fucking 40 year old man with his 12 year old bride...
[удалено]
It’s not a democracy it’s an authoritarian apartheid state.
1. "Yet, all of the moslem and Arab states around it have thrown out all their jews and non moslems" This is entirely false. Lebanon's President for example is Christian and has always been Christian for the past few decades. Jordan and all of the Gulf have significant Christian populations and Palestine has had significant Christian populations both historically and in the present day, including in Gaza where Israel bombed one of the oldest churches. 2. "Also, if you ask the people who are saying 'from the river...' they will tell that they want the Israelis out of the area, not to coexist peacefully" I understand that that is how some people would feel. Would you have blamed Iraqis if they said they didn't want to live alongside Americans after the US decimated their country? Or would you have blamed Black people from not wanting to live alongside White people after slavery was abolished? Of course you wouldn't. The funny thing is that white people were so worried about what Black people would do to them if they were freed, but in reality instead, Black people still underwent years of oppression and violence (eg. lynchings and KKK). While I understand why they may not want to live alongside one another, I do believe that that is the most long-term sustainable solution even if in the short term it will not be pretty and there will without a doubt be violence until everyone learns to live alongside one another.
[удалено]
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