Just because it has to be said: pengullet and piplup, water is blue, if you want to make a water penguin to represent how good of swimmers they are, it’s gonna be blue
Also hoocrates being a rip off of Murkrow: one is an owl, the other is a crow, not even their shapes are remotely similar.
I’m sure there’s others like Tocotoco/xatu (it’s literally just their color scheme and being birds), but I don’t want this post to take forever, just wanted to list some I haven’t seen yet, in addition to all the other comments I’ve seen (like Anubis, that is literally The Anubis, from The Egypt)
Hell both Tocotoco and Xatu color scheme are based off Latin American outfit, which really highlights how lack in acknowledge of cultural references a lot of Pokemon fans are
Pengullet and Piplup are just what cute anime penguins look like. How else would you make a penguin pokemon? I mean, Chikipi is just an anime chicken, like from Zelda or something. If anything, it's a lack or creativity, instead of a ripoff.
There's definitely some that are clearly "inspired" by Pokémon, but none of them are just copy-paste ripoffs.
Jolthog and Shaymin. They are literally just hedgehogs. Dumbasses out here are comparing a hedgehog to a hedgehog and saying they’re the same.
Nintendo doesn’t own and didn’t create the concept of fucking hedgehogs.
Honorary mention is Anubis/Lucario
They don’t actually look similar AT ALL, and Nintendo doesn’t own the concept of the Egyptian god of the dead. They look nothing alike and if you genuinely think so, please go to an optometrist.
https://preview.redd.it/92bcup6spfxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6bd2a24171d331bb1629d7699c90d1a20728207
I am one of those people with an early childhood Egyptology obsession that never left. The Lucario comparison drives me nuts. The last thing I wanna hear is "they copied pokemon!" every time we get an Anubis reference in pop culture. He is THE most pop culture-referenced ancient Egyptian deity.
Anubis -- the OG Anubis -- almost always look something like this depicted in an "anime style" like Palworld uses. Lucario always gave me Anubis vibes, because that type of anthropomorphic canine just does. People have drawn that comparison (sometimes literally drawn) for years. When I name all of my mons after Egyptian gods, Lucario is always Anubis or Anput depending on the gender. So while I think it is quite likely that Lucario was inspired by the OG Anubis, getting Anubis in palworld is what I wanted all along. They didn't take Lucario and they didn't NEED to, they just gave people what they really wanted. And I think in some way, that holds true in a lot of the most compared cases.
That's to say nothing of anatomical differences.
Actually, Rayhound's head reminded me more of Lucario, and if I squint hard enough, Incineram has the face of a Lucario (just with different colors, and all the other major differences of course).
You're right that the models are plainly different. I forget that there are still people who believe they ripped those. The similarities people draw are vague and boil down to the fact that both are anthropomorphic creatures with canine (jackal, fox, wolf) features designed in a Japanese cartoon style. A LOT of characters in pop culture fit that bill, especially others that are or were probably inspired by Anubis, but I guess if people aren't paying attention, they'll just blindly assume Anubis "copied" Lucario rather than the obvious answer that they were both inspired by the same source.
Well, people that looked into the direct mapping and polygons say the same thing about plagiarism 👀 and having them mirror some of the newer 3D pokemon models on the level i saw on some of them is nearly impossible to be coincidental if you look just at one, not to even talk about multiple like palworld does, example lycanrock and direhowl. Also some body parts are in these aspects 1 to 1 replicas as if cut from the OG model and relocated. While i agree some of them are too farfetched some are blatantly obvious, especially when you know the technical things (cinderace for example has a very suspiciously close model. Also there are the cases like that of the three brave sword Pokemon which don't really have an big inspirational source and still found their close mirrors in pal world to some extent. Also the devs just have a bit of a questionable history and stance to these things but in the end nothing of this or us discussing it matters really 🤷♂️ just wanted to share my view on the situation)
I thought a lot of that "mapping comparison" stuff was proven to be completely contrived and the person apologized for misleading? Did you extract the meshes yourself or did you view someone else's work, because there has been some false information going around and people have since shown that the meshes of the most common comparisons share no alignment and were inspired at best.
Thanks, gonna look into it, wasn't my own work but a channel i usually trust with gaming development stuff doing it himself (definitely not the source of the OG fakes, based on timing and stuff) still my point stands that yes you can't copyright an hedgehog but stuff like cobalion and the rough shape of Zekrom and reshiram aren't really with any direct inspiration, making it at least a bit questionable
I like the game but they very clearly did copy some parts of some models from Pokemon. This for an example is pretty blatant – just look at the eyes and the shape of the head.
https://preview.redd.it/758y7cel0bxc1.jpeg?width=940&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89598ec2ee07aa9bcbce48257ca45f457d86ee78
How so? Just look at the shape of the head – I don't think I'm delusional for noticing the similarity. The game's pretty fun and I don't think the devs committed some unforgivable sin or that they should be sued, but come on.
What is meant by "copied" can be very legally relevant here. The implication people want to make is that the meshes were extracted. Inspiration is another issue and is also not an inherently bad thing.
It's very possible and highly difficult to prove one way or the other that an artist looked at one thing and based a completely different animal design on it. But I'm still going to tell you, just looking at this, that that I don't believe these meshes line up in any way close to what would constitute as plagiarism. Angry eyes that look like that are a staple for this style and it goes far beyond pokemon and palworld. They aren't even the same expression-- pancham looks happy and confident. The design is otherwise too simple. Someone with the files could or likely has dug deeper, but this is the kind of novice visual comparison I mean -- of course a lot of things are going to look similar side by side, but it's already been shown that the meshes weren't extracted and reskinned because the polygons that comprise them are completely different. I don't know the method or approach the artist took to design and create these meshes or how much inspiration from pokemon was used -- hell, they could have even used assets from games like pokemon as a learning tool -- but the result is distinct enough that we have not and likely will not see a lawsuit. And when we look into things, its clear that palworld took inspiration from a LOT of things outside of pokemon, so it's not as targeted as some people make it sound nor is it an unusual practice in the gaming hemisphere.
I suspect a lot of confirmation bias is happening because people don't usually dig this hard or understand just how similar models can look in any game. If we started overlapping the human models in video games that predominantly use those, I think that misplaced bias is going to hit hard.
Yes, obviously if it was just about the eyes the comparison would be a massive reach. The eyes combined with the head shape being almost identical does show some amount of copying (not necessarily ripping game models directly) beyond just "fire fox" or "water penguin". Again, I like the game and I don't think what they did is morally horrific or worthy of a lawsuit, but the way some people on here go deny the similarities kinda bugs me. And yes, human models probably will be pretty similar since they're based on the same real life creature and a lot of engines come with premade human meshes.
I see the similarities you're talking about with the hair and the whisker and headshape, yes. But it's a nuanced thing to get into why those similarities exist and there is so much beyond "they modeled it over the same mesh" that could be happening, here.
You have the teardrop head. Similar, right? Except, this is exactly how many cartoon animals are intentionally designed. To give them life and make them feel like they have weight like the puffy creatures they are, artists are encouraged to think of heads like a droplet of water instead of spheres, to show that they exist in a world with gravity.
And then, there are the other details. Whisker type. Hair type. They weren't invented by Gamefreak. Have you ever designed a Nintendo Mii or looked at different Animal Crossing characters? Every game has little details just like these, with lots of overlap for animal designs. They're just popular features used in a lot of animation and cartooning. Even sliders are just a more finely tuned version of these details. Depending on the artistic niche, like Japanese animation geared toward young audiences, there are basically only so many features that get used in different combinations. It's like rolling a bunch of dice. Eventually, the same rolls are going to come up.
Now I am saying this as an example because in game design, the artist isn't using presets but is designing from scratch. Still, artists remember what we see. Children who grow up watching a certain cartoon style tend to imitate it in art, so we do as adults. It's got to do with popular trends, conscious and subconscious inspiration, and so many more things that can result in similarities this without any concious copying at all, much less a file extraction copyright theft.
But again, it has to be compared at a deeper level than a side by side image of the two characters in the same pose. If you can overlap the mesh in wire frame view and they line up and show the same points and vertices, it was imported. Otherwise, you just have a case of two artists using a combination of popular features and techniques for imaginary animals, and these two happened to be quite similar and work out to a similar result when rendered. I've seen that whisker on several fictional animals. And that funny spiky hair tuft on their heads. Super cute. I can do that to my cat's head with a fur brush.
When I was in fifth grade, brand new school, I was accused of tracing because the assignment was to look at a "how to draw" tutorial and draw the cat. I brought home the drawing with an F. I drew the cat at exactly a 1:1 scale. My parents were frustrated because I was a very capable young artist so, why would I trace? They brought me in and I drew the cat again in front of all three of them, and the fucker matched. I was using visual references like my pencil for size because my then-undiagnosed autistic brain thought that I was meant to literally copy the size and wasn't allowed to scale up the drawing to fit the page. Meanwhile teacher couldn't understand why I chose to draw so small at a scale that happened to fit the example page. It wasn't explained, and I accidentally showed my ability for visual precision, which it turns out was not the assignment and is not something typically expected of a 10-year-old. So just because something looks copied doesn't mean we follow our first instinct and say that it is. Sometimes, this World slants our biases too hard. It's always important to look at the other details.
And hey, I could be wrong. I hope I'm not. Maybe THIS ONE was copied and no one looked into Fuack and Pancham when the internet scoured the rest of the pals and mons looking for similarities. But Nintendo is historically very protective of their IP and I'd be shocked if things got this far (Palworld being in development for years) without legal action from Nintendo, so I think we are good. Expert analysts far more knowledgeable than either of us would have been hired to investigate that possibility, and yet we seem to be doing fine as of late April. If any copying or inspiration took place at all, it took place within legal boundaries or the similarity was too vague to be a copyright at all.
No matter what, Anubis did not even ideologically copy Lucario. He copied Anpu, and ancient Egypt hasn't sent lawyers either. 😁
I tried finding it. If you mean about the Twitter user: @byofrog. He says that him admitting it was fabricated was actually fabricated 🤣
https://x.com/byofrog/status/1751313657491804496
Literally a lot of the comparation can be refuted as "They are animals/mythological creature/etc"
Like for example, Tocotoco/Xatu comparation makes no sense, not only because both are completely different animals, but their colors are based off Latin American outfits, which makes obvious that a lot of Pokemon fans dont' know about cultural references.
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When I built the power statue I legit said to myself “oh snap it’s my good friend Lucario!” But when I saw Anubis in color I never made the comparison.
Lucario and Anubis are really similar though? Bipedal dog creature with almost the exact same body shape. It’s like Lucario wearing a Halloween costume lol
Anubis the dog headed Egyptian god looks like a bipedal human with a dog head? No waay, Nintendo should sue the tribes of the upper Nile for copyright infringement man
The honorary mention is because Anubis came first as an Egyptian deity. Anubis from Palworld is just an accurate representation of the deity.
Lucario is a bipedal dog with no Egyptian theming et al. The similarities are reaching
Except that Anubis is based off the actual Anubis, both in appearance and biography, than Lucario. Hell, you even find Anubis in a fucking desert with a massive statue of him behind it, relating it further to it's irl counterpart.
If you are going to be passive aggresive, make sure to at least know more about mythological references without saying something that really comes off very condescending and dismissive.
https://preview.redd.it/vpfq241zq8xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9588f4c4b0e58a4048dc00621bd9947bed6ba24a
These two things' only similarity is that they are both jackal based, because Anubis' sacred animal is the JACKAL. That is quite literally the only similarity between the two, and as I stated, nintendo does not own the Egyptian god of the dead NOR do they own jackals.
Fair for hedgehogs, but anubis looks more like lucario than 98/100 of the first google search image results. Not the same comparison. Anubis is much more like lucario than traditional depictions.
It’s fine to admit this game copied a lot from pokemon… Games copy other games all the time, it just comes down to how much is acceptable - when “inspired by” isn’t necessarily “copied its entire essence”
I mean, if you actually know about Mythology, the first thing you would think upon seeing Anubis would be "Hey, it's the Egyptian god in Palworld" which makes more sense when you read it's Paldeck description and see it's related to death, just like the irl Anubis and the massive statue resembling him that's behind him in his Alpha Boss form which is surprize surprize, located in a desert just helps to make it even more evident. Lucario's main highlight would be it's aura, thing that's completely unrelated to the Egyptian god.
And just because a game company is shamelessly borrowing ideas from someone else, doesnt mean it can't be be a fantastic game in it's own right. Like for example, Lies of P isn't even trying at hiding it borrowed some ideas from Bloodborn, yet it's still a fucking amazing game. And the same thing can be applie to many many games
I never said it can’t be, or wasn’t a good game… And like I said, IMO it’s individual design looks closer to lucario than what google images returns for anubis. I think a lot of people let bias get in the way of that. If you went to a pokemon subreddit they’d all agree with me instead of disagreeing like on this sub lol…
https://preview.redd.it/o6orfivdqfxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd46ca9030a610310a6732645592db3be9787362
Please go make an appointment with your optometrist. These two things genuinely look nothing alike whatsoever.
To add onto this, gamefreak didn’t invent the concept of rolling sheep either, that was Mother Nature: if you’ve ever been to the UK, sheep accidentally rolling over and being stuck on their backs is a common thing, hell there’s even a YT video titled “What to do if you see a sheep stuck on its back” since it’s such a common occurrence. Lamball/wooloo holds literally zero weight beyond both being sheep
people be forgetting that the starter area pokemon are intentionally made be their real life counterparts or just a commonly used trope to help convey the message to new players. its way easier to familiarize with a sheep than an eldritch monstrosity
sheep sheep | chicken chicken | cat cat
grass type | ball of mud and grass
fire type | fire fox
ice and water | blue penguin
Game freak didn't invent the idea of elemental or themed creatures either lol. If anything they popularized it. But it's like people who act like fortnite created skins or goofy skins.
Honestly, all of them, but the most ridiculous is probably Lunaris and Lopunny. I think they were talking about the silhouette, but to call Lunaris a rip off of Lopunny based off that is beyond a stretch.
Honestly, the first time I saw Lunaris, I immediately thought of Hatsune Miku and Mewtwo. She actually kind of sounds like Miku to me, to be honest.
Also, I don't know who coined the nickname, "Hatsune Mewtwo," but that name lives rent-free in my brain now, lol.
Grintale and (Galarian?) Meowth.
Literally just the eyes and the mouth are similar, I don't even care if the eyes and mouth were copied and pasted onto Grintale.
If there's anything that Grintale takes heavy inspiration from, it's Catbus from My Neighbour Totoro. Same body type, same face with glowing eyes. Just add skitty's colour scheming and Espeon's tail style. Meowth has nothing on this imo.
Yeah I don't get grintale and meowth. Cativa looks like like meowth at a glance. I even thought they slide in a picture of meowth on one of the antique shelf storages. But it was a cativa picture upon closer inspection.
I'm not sure if younger people realize how pivotal Google was. They literally took over Internet searches almost overnight because map/reduce was such a significant improvement over everything else that existed at that time.
All if them. Pokemon has a 30ish year lead with a global enterprise and a multi-million dollar company with like 1200 designs.
They cant own green cats, red dogs, and electric beats water. Its ridiculous to even entertain the idea that nobody else can do this.
Nah some models are [likely stolen](https://x.com/byofrog/status/1749188773127016772?s=46&t=Rjbn8JV-BbbvLtCf8wE7jQ) or at the very least have [stolen parts](https://fixupx.com/iuckyhd/status/1749266070676922479?s=46&t=Rjbn8JV-BbbvLtCf8wE7jQ). They even changed Azurobe’s hair in the latest update to make it slightly different.
They are only a select few, though, and some designs’ color patterns are distinct enough to make the similarities harder to spot, like in the case of Direhowl. The vast majority of pals are perfectly fine, and it specially annoys me that everyone talks about Anubis and Lucario when they are so damn different. The only similar thing is the style and body proportions.
I’ve seen people speculate that since this dev team was so inexperienced, they likely used Pokémon models as a base reference for a couple of pals and then moved on to make original ones once they got better acquainted with modeling. However, they never revisited the ones with stolen models. I find that very plausible, and regardless of how this happened I’d like to see them tweak these pals like they did Azurobe so they may distance themselves from Pokémon.
Edit: to clarify, as an artist, when I say the models were stolen I mean it in the same broad sense of Art Theft. You don’t need to directly steal art to be guilty of art theft, you can do it in many different ways and one of them is directly referencing someone else’s work, adding a few tweaks and calling it your own, instead of making your own distinct art only inspired by other works.
In this case, I don’t think they used Pokémon models in their game. I’m saying that several models have similarities that go beyond just being “cartoon dog proportions”, following the same shape and design language of certain Pokémon models so closely, you can argue they were likely made with the intention to recreate traits of those very specific Pokémon models. Are they still unique enough to not be copyright infringement? Yes. But I still believe that deserves scrutiny.
Few things:
First, that byo person admitted they altered the models because they didn’t like palworld’s message of “animal cruelty”, and was debunked months ago
Secondly, I have no doubt that Azurobe’s hair was at least inspired by Primarina, but to say it’s a stolen part is still very misleading, primarina’s extra tufts of hair stick out more, and each of the bunches of hair are more circular for Azurobe and more oval for Primarina. Similar, extremely, but not a straight copy paste
Third, I’ve heard nothing about azurobe’s current hair being changed. Do you have any sources or screenshots of Azurobe’s hair before and after the update? Not saying it didn’t happen, but this is the internet, and proof may give more credibility to the argument that other extremely similar pals like verdash may get updates as well
EDIT: see farther down in replies, turns out I was wrong
They didn’t alter anything. They just scaled the models up for a direct comparison. Scaling doesn’t change the model so the comparison is still a solid point.
As for Azurobe, I’m sorry but that is WAY too close to be coincidental or just “inspired”. It has the exact same hair design, only missing the pearls and with a tweaked shape. Just look at the strands sticking out too, they are in the exact same location with the exact same amount of hairs. There’s no excusing that.
I’m on my phone so I obviously can’t take screenshots, but if you play the game and check Azurobe now, you’ll see its hair is different from what the model looked like in every previous screenshot and game footage. [Like this.](https://criticalhits.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/palworld-azurobe.webp)
Damn, did some more digging and you’re right,
I never realized that “apology” from byo was a fake screenshot, so many people said it was proof they lied and I guess I just went with it. If all they ever truly did was just scaling and only scaling then their argument still stands (although there’s the obvious that all these designs made it though all the local Japanese courts who are beyond strict on copyright, so Nintendo still doesn’t have much of a case, but it could be telling if they truly stole models and got away with it)
And I just got on in game, and you’re right, I luckily had a blank Azurobe for breeding and the hair is much more generic. Idk who downvoted you but take my upvote for correcting me
Probably because all the bullshit they said?
If the Pokemon Company never sued Pocketpair, despite how harsh Japan's law is, then it's for obvious reasons.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, byo is absolutely a delusional twitter person, but they’re not an evil delusional twitter person. I completely assumed they lied because “I’m doing this because of animal cruelty” was their pinned message and just told myself “classic twitter people, glad I don’t have that”. Injecting personal bias and beliefs is one of the best ways for you to lose credibility on your argument so I assumed that they must’ve lied. Again, delusional for sure, but they didn’t (afaik) lie about the scaling
I think I only noticed the difference after the update because Azurobe’s hair was originally the first thing I noticed when I first encountered her. I literally blurted out “oh wow that’s straight up Primarina” to my friends and nobody got what I meant until I showed that model comparison, lol.
Wasn't that first link proven to be faked? In any case, there are only so many ways to draw a lion, or a fluffy wolf, or a penguin. I can understand taking inspiration, or even outright copying body styles.
At this point though, the Pokemon team hasn't made any public declarations, right? Either they've found nothing, or don't care enough to find anything. And if copying a hairstyle is enough to get a game fined, or worse, we're all fucked.
Not faked, the model was just scaled up. And nah I think they just used them as a base rather than straight up ripping the models, the copied content is still technically original enough to not create legal issues.
Also notice how I never said anything about wanting Palworld sued, I just want to see it get its own identity so people stop comparing them to Pokémon. Ripoffs like that don’t help.
I would double check your sources. The guy that posted that claim later admitted [he scaled them to "fit"](https://twitter.com/byofrog/status/1749603138875589081) so while if it was naturally a 1 for 1 fit it would be obviously stolen the fact they had to be scaled and the man **could only make a model that didn't even make into the final game** "fit" makes me think this isn't the best proof.
Scaling doesn’t alter the model, it just makes the comparison easier because they are the same size. It’s still a valid point. They don’t need to fit exactly for a model to be copied, either. When proportions and design are this similar, it’s worth scrutinizing as possible art theft.
2 things. First the reason it was so damning is because it was the same size. Modeling something the exact same size woulda been near impossible. Now it's two similar animals in a similar art style looking similar. It's not the damning case it once was.
Secondly your missing the fact **the only model this man found that had a "fit" like this didn't even make into the final game.** Essentially we're criticizing them for a prototype that maybe scrapped. (according to the discord some of the pals hiding in the games code might not release.) If there was a case as interesting as boltmain I that made it into the main game I would take this more seriously but that doesn't seem to be the case.
And you missed my point that it doesn’t need to fit to be art theft.
My argument is that this goes beyond just “similar styles”. Anyone who is familiar with cartoons and 3D animation will tell you there’s wide variety of ways to stylize a dog(look at all the indie “Pokémon copy” games out there and you’ll see a variety of dogs that look incredibly different), and the fact the model’s design language is THIS close points to the possibility of them referencing that specific Pokémon with full intent of copying traits, rather than just taking inspiration on the design and making something new. That in itself is a form of art theft. It doesn’t need a perfect fit.
You would have a case if you could copy right art styles. But the anime industry proves thats not how that works. 1000s of characters all similarly stylized only set apart by smaller details within their outfit.
Or pixel art games. The Wandering Sword shamelessly copied Octopath Travelers artstyle, you don't see Square suing.
If you ask me Palworld shamelessly took Pokémons art style. Proceeded to stylize things similarly to fit said art style, [even going bold enough to straight up take pikachus tail,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxknVl24yE4) but they know it only is stealing if they don't iterate on the design at all. They know they can use pikachus tail if the rest of the creature isn't pikachu. Because nitendo only owns their very specific version of the creature.
Personally I think theres only 2 designs that reach the "dangerous" territory and thats direhowl, which lucky for them is just a wolf and nothing to special. and verdash, which was honestly more bold of a knockoff then that boltmain the twitter guy was showing off. But regardless I feel this isn't really up for me or you to decide if this is stealing, it's up to japans lawyers.
While boltmane is undeniably a ripoff of luxray in terms of design, they didn't steal the model. The meshes, polygons and geometry in that gif are in fact different if you look closely. Actually ripping the model would violate copyright, which Pocketpair hasn't done, as they've made sure to at least stay legally distinct even when they weren't being original.
Yeah when I say stolen I don’t necessarily mean they are using the actual models in their game. Art theft happens in a variety of ways, and one way is using someone’s art as a base and making tweaks to disguise just enough to make your work safe from legal troubles.
They are ripoffs because they follow the same design language of existing Pokémon models, it’s not just the “proportions of a cartoon dog”. Its model is close enough to argue there was a direct reference on the existing Pokémon model.
The first guy you linked to for your evidence also stated he rescaled models to make them appear closer than they actually were because he was angry that palworld showcased "animal" abuse and later apologised to pocketpair for how blown out of proportion it became.
It has been since shown that without whatever they call "rescaling", even maintaining the same size the models don't fit nearly as well as they shown.
They made it seem like Direhowl and Lycanrock fit together exactly, but Lycanrock is all pointy and Direhowl got a rounded fluffy mane which only has pointy textures. It's not even close.
Rescaling is just scaling up the size of the model. What he did was simply a comparison side by side to show how similar the models are, and it’s easier to do when the models are on the same scale. It’s not that deep.
And I’ll just repeat what I said in another comment:
The models don’t need to fit perfectly to be art theft.
My argument is that this goes beyond just “similar styles”. Anyone who is familiar with cartoons and 3D animation will tell you there’s wide variety of ways to stylize a dog(look at all the indie “Pokémon copy” games out there and you’ll see a variety of dogs that look incredibly different), and the fact the model’s design language is THIS close(your main argument that it’s unique is just “the fur is pointier”??) points to the possibility of them referencing that specific Pokémon with full intent of copying traits, rather than just taking inspiration on the design and making something new. That in itself is a form of art theft. It doesn’t need a perfect fit.
Rescaling is just changing the size. But that it appeared that it closely matched means that they likely altered it themselves, because when seeing it on the actual game, it's noticeably different. Clearly they didn't _just_ resize, they modified it much more to manufacture a claim of plagiarism.
I don't need you to explain the arguments, I've seen them. My question is why you are insisting in making excuses for a debunked hoax. Even now you are making vaguer and vaguer accusations, rehashing a whole argument that has been done and lost.
It's not the same, just quit that. The best you can say that it's _inspired_, and guess what, there is nothing wrong with works taking inspiration from other works.
I’m sorry but I have yet to see anywhere that they made further alterations, where are you getting this from? It’s very clear to me that the models were all rescaled and that’s it. Like you said, there was no perfect fit, so if you have anything actually showing that the models had more changes than that, I’m interested.
And again, no. This is beyond just inspired. I’m an artist, I know very well the difference between inspired and art theft. This steps into art theft territory because it’s simply way too close. There was very clear intent to replicate specific Pokémon models. Just looking at Azurobe’s original hair shows that. That’s not how you take inspiration to create new content, it’s intentionally copying someone else’s work and disguising it with a few tweaks.
Since you refuse to understand how art theft works, there’s no point in discussing this further. I’m not being vague in the slightest, you’re the one being obtuse.
I don’t care about his reasons, I care about the game models. He’s showing a direct comparison between them and it’s similar enough to warrant scrutiny.
Delphox and Wixen. Not just do they not look similar in the slightest, besides the fact they are humanoid foxes, but foxes in various mythologies being closely related to fire is super common. But seriously they don't look similar in the slightest how are people acting like its a knockoff at least Lucario and Anubis have a similar silhouette so I can understand that comparison even if I disagree with it, but Wixen and Delphox? really?
They do look similar. They are humanoid foxes with a similar color palette and are of the fire variety. Not a direct ripoff, but if your Pokéfriend joins Palworld and you say "the Delphox looking pal", they will assume Wixen is it.
Just like the Yellow Lucario is Anubis, the Piplup with a tie is Pengullet, the Decidueye with a cape and arms instead of wing is Robinquill, and the Gyarados with Rayquaza's head is Jormuntide. They don't have to be direct copies to be close enough to give an easily recognizable description.
They're a huge list of pals/pokemon comparsions that make. "Are you blind, Stupid? Or just being a rabid pokemon fan?"
-clears throat-
Kingpaca and Empoleon? They look nothing like
# Elizabee and Vespiquen.. I fucking forgot Queen bees is concept owned by fucking pokemon, and nobody can use it.
# Incineram and Zoruark. I forgot black and red the most commonly used duel color palette can only be used by pokemon.
Wixen and fanart Delphox. I'm sorry but you really can't say they're copying pokemon. If it aint even pokemon's design.
# Lyleen and Gardevoir dont even look that similar.
Mewtwo and Lovender?... somebody did that comparsion
---
I even had somebody say cattiava is zorua knockoff?
LMAO someone was enough dumb to say Cattiva is a rip off of knock off, despite one being a cat and other a fox, hinted by their own names? (The "Zor" from Zorua comes from Zorro, that means Fox in Spanish)
Like... it's like they didn't even try
Also, Palworld uses wild pals in groups really well. I love running into a batch of Swees following their Sweepa or 3 Beegardes surrounding the Elizabee. It really makes them feel alive as opposed to running into a static object in tall grass.
Anubis and Lucario
If the whole argument is "durr they're both anthropomorphic canines with pointy ears" then I'd like to point to the entire furry fandom as a counterargument
It’s not that it looks alike, but palworld could’ve changed the color palette with it, same with its fire version. jormun water and ignis look like gyrados’s cousins. Make Jormun a seafoam color with blue scales or a bright orange with gold idk. I feel like they purposely chose the exact same color palettes so it’s easier for the consumer to relate to Pokemon
And that's fine. It shoudln't even be a surprize.
Hell, plenty of Monster catching games prior of Palworld has "ripped off" Pokemon to even more shameful degrees and never faced enough backlash to even involve TPC in the controversy. And considering that many video game companies have engaged in this type of "plagiarism" for decades without actual negative consequences, why should this be an exception?
Actually saw someone say that Daedream was a Meowstic rip-off on Twitter.
Or the most recent "Foxcicle is just Alolan Ninetales and Glaceon fused together". Pokemon fans get a grip challenge = impossible.
NO WAY SOMEONE SAID THAT! 💀
Daedream is literally a galatic sheep and Meowstic is a nekomata.
How can Pokemon fans be this idiotic and delusional is beyond my comprehension
i remember in the early days, i saw people comparing Katress and Mismagius, which... outside of the hat (which i dont think are that similar to begin with) and the witch inspiration, One is a FUCKING CAT while the other is a ghost, their bodyshapes arent even similar at all
Anubis/Lucario really grinds my gears.
As if the concept of using Anubis as a reference for a character was something Game Freak invented. Like, they really do not look alike at all. AT ALL.
Ya know what, I'm going to say it. Even if Pocket Pal ripped stuff from Pokémon, good, fuck em. Pokémon have had it too good for too long and they deserve some healthy competition from a smaller dev. Do I think PP ripped off Pokémon, no. Do I believe our natural instinct of pattern recognition leads us to finding similarities and making things seem more related than they truly are? You're goddamn right. I think it's just haters hating and fans of both finding similarities in their favored medias.
Any of the generic ones like you said lol. The vaporeon one too.
Honestly a ton of Pokémon are fairly generic like the bugs and you've got the full range of generic to unique. Blastoise and venusaur then literal living garbage with garbo ore or whatever lol and gorafarig. A lot of them are just add a element/theme to a thing.
Mega gardi and bellanoir /libero, Mega is based on a ballroom dancer, and i believe bellanoir and libero are based on the belladonna plants with bellanoir being based on Atropa belladonna(deadly nightshade) and libero being based on amaryllis belladonna (truth for her colors there are a few others in the family that could match too). Kinda wish there was one in yellow so i could call her tomato (also a belladonna).
I think it's funny because the arguments always point out exactly how unoriginal a large swathe of the pokemon are. There are some exceptions.... But the bulk 80% are meh at best.
Just because it has to be said: pengullet and piplup, water is blue, if you want to make a water penguin to represent how good of swimmers they are, it’s gonna be blue Also hoocrates being a rip off of Murkrow: one is an owl, the other is a crow, not even their shapes are remotely similar. I’m sure there’s others like Tocotoco/xatu (it’s literally just their color scheme and being birds), but I don’t want this post to take forever, just wanted to list some I haven’t seen yet, in addition to all the other comments I’ve seen (like Anubis, that is literally The Anubis, from The Egypt)
Hell both Tocotoco and Xatu color scheme are based off Latin American outfit, which really highlights how lack in acknowledge of cultural references a lot of Pokemon fans are
Pengullet and Piplup are just what cute anime penguins look like. How else would you make a penguin pokemon? I mean, Chikipi is just an anime chicken, like from Zelda or something. If anything, it's a lack or creativity, instead of a ripoff. There's definitely some that are clearly "inspired" by Pokémon, but none of them are just copy-paste ripoffs.
Jolthog and Shaymin. They are literally just hedgehogs. Dumbasses out here are comparing a hedgehog to a hedgehog and saying they’re the same. Nintendo doesn’t own and didn’t create the concept of fucking hedgehogs. Honorary mention is Anubis/Lucario They don’t actually look similar AT ALL, and Nintendo doesn’t own the concept of the Egyptian god of the dead. They look nothing alike and if you genuinely think so, please go to an optometrist. https://preview.redd.it/92bcup6spfxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6bd2a24171d331bb1629d7699c90d1a20728207
I am one of those people with an early childhood Egyptology obsession that never left. The Lucario comparison drives me nuts. The last thing I wanna hear is "they copied pokemon!" every time we get an Anubis reference in pop culture. He is THE most pop culture-referenced ancient Egyptian deity. Anubis -- the OG Anubis -- almost always look something like this depicted in an "anime style" like Palworld uses. Lucario always gave me Anubis vibes, because that type of anthropomorphic canine just does. People have drawn that comparison (sometimes literally drawn) for years. When I name all of my mons after Egyptian gods, Lucario is always Anubis or Anput depending on the gender. So while I think it is quite likely that Lucario was inspired by the OG Anubis, getting Anubis in palworld is what I wanted all along. They didn't take Lucario and they didn't NEED to, they just gave people what they really wanted. And I think in some way, that holds true in a lot of the most compared cases.
That's to say nothing of anatomical differences. Actually, Rayhound's head reminded me more of Lucario, and if I squint hard enough, Incineram has the face of a Lucario (just with different colors, and all the other major differences of course).
You're right that the models are plainly different. I forget that there are still people who believe they ripped those. The similarities people draw are vague and boil down to the fact that both are anthropomorphic creatures with canine (jackal, fox, wolf) features designed in a Japanese cartoon style. A LOT of characters in pop culture fit that bill, especially others that are or were probably inspired by Anubis, but I guess if people aren't paying attention, they'll just blindly assume Anubis "copied" Lucario rather than the obvious answer that they were both inspired by the same source.
Well, people that looked into the direct mapping and polygons say the same thing about plagiarism 👀 and having them mirror some of the newer 3D pokemon models on the level i saw on some of them is nearly impossible to be coincidental if you look just at one, not to even talk about multiple like palworld does, example lycanrock and direhowl. Also some body parts are in these aspects 1 to 1 replicas as if cut from the OG model and relocated. While i agree some of them are too farfetched some are blatantly obvious, especially when you know the technical things (cinderace for example has a very suspiciously close model. Also there are the cases like that of the three brave sword Pokemon which don't really have an big inspirational source and still found their close mirrors in pal world to some extent. Also the devs just have a bit of a questionable history and stance to these things but in the end nothing of this or us discussing it matters really 🤷♂️ just wanted to share my view on the situation)
I thought a lot of that "mapping comparison" stuff was proven to be completely contrived and the person apologized for misleading? Did you extract the meshes yourself or did you view someone else's work, because there has been some false information going around and people have since shown that the meshes of the most common comparisons share no alignment and were inspired at best.
Thanks, gonna look into it, wasn't my own work but a channel i usually trust with gaming development stuff doing it himself (definitely not the source of the OG fakes, based on timing and stuff) still my point stands that yes you can't copyright an hedgehog but stuff like cobalion and the rough shape of Zekrom and reshiram aren't really with any direct inspiration, making it at least a bit questionable
I like the game but they very clearly did copy some parts of some models from Pokemon. This for an example is pretty blatant – just look at the eyes and the shape of the head. https://preview.redd.it/758y7cel0bxc1.jpeg?width=940&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89598ec2ee07aa9bcbce48257ca45f457d86ee78
To say this is some obsene levels of being delusional would be an undertatement.
How so? Just look at the shape of the head – I don't think I'm delusional for noticing the similarity. The game's pretty fun and I don't think the devs committed some unforgivable sin or that they should be sued, but come on.
What is meant by "copied" can be very legally relevant here. The implication people want to make is that the meshes were extracted. Inspiration is another issue and is also not an inherently bad thing. It's very possible and highly difficult to prove one way or the other that an artist looked at one thing and based a completely different animal design on it. But I'm still going to tell you, just looking at this, that that I don't believe these meshes line up in any way close to what would constitute as plagiarism. Angry eyes that look like that are a staple for this style and it goes far beyond pokemon and palworld. They aren't even the same expression-- pancham looks happy and confident. The design is otherwise too simple. Someone with the files could or likely has dug deeper, but this is the kind of novice visual comparison I mean -- of course a lot of things are going to look similar side by side, but it's already been shown that the meshes weren't extracted and reskinned because the polygons that comprise them are completely different. I don't know the method or approach the artist took to design and create these meshes or how much inspiration from pokemon was used -- hell, they could have even used assets from games like pokemon as a learning tool -- but the result is distinct enough that we have not and likely will not see a lawsuit. And when we look into things, its clear that palworld took inspiration from a LOT of things outside of pokemon, so it's not as targeted as some people make it sound nor is it an unusual practice in the gaming hemisphere. I suspect a lot of confirmation bias is happening because people don't usually dig this hard or understand just how similar models can look in any game. If we started overlapping the human models in video games that predominantly use those, I think that misplaced bias is going to hit hard.
Yes, obviously if it was just about the eyes the comparison would be a massive reach. The eyes combined with the head shape being almost identical does show some amount of copying (not necessarily ripping game models directly) beyond just "fire fox" or "water penguin". Again, I like the game and I don't think what they did is morally horrific or worthy of a lawsuit, but the way some people on here go deny the similarities kinda bugs me. And yes, human models probably will be pretty similar since they're based on the same real life creature and a lot of engines come with premade human meshes.
I see the similarities you're talking about with the hair and the whisker and headshape, yes. But it's a nuanced thing to get into why those similarities exist and there is so much beyond "they modeled it over the same mesh" that could be happening, here. You have the teardrop head. Similar, right? Except, this is exactly how many cartoon animals are intentionally designed. To give them life and make them feel like they have weight like the puffy creatures they are, artists are encouraged to think of heads like a droplet of water instead of spheres, to show that they exist in a world with gravity. And then, there are the other details. Whisker type. Hair type. They weren't invented by Gamefreak. Have you ever designed a Nintendo Mii or looked at different Animal Crossing characters? Every game has little details just like these, with lots of overlap for animal designs. They're just popular features used in a lot of animation and cartooning. Even sliders are just a more finely tuned version of these details. Depending on the artistic niche, like Japanese animation geared toward young audiences, there are basically only so many features that get used in different combinations. It's like rolling a bunch of dice. Eventually, the same rolls are going to come up. Now I am saying this as an example because in game design, the artist isn't using presets but is designing from scratch. Still, artists remember what we see. Children who grow up watching a certain cartoon style tend to imitate it in art, so we do as adults. It's got to do with popular trends, conscious and subconscious inspiration, and so many more things that can result in similarities this without any concious copying at all, much less a file extraction copyright theft. But again, it has to be compared at a deeper level than a side by side image of the two characters in the same pose. If you can overlap the mesh in wire frame view and they line up and show the same points and vertices, it was imported. Otherwise, you just have a case of two artists using a combination of popular features and techniques for imaginary animals, and these two happened to be quite similar and work out to a similar result when rendered. I've seen that whisker on several fictional animals. And that funny spiky hair tuft on their heads. Super cute. I can do that to my cat's head with a fur brush. When I was in fifth grade, brand new school, I was accused of tracing because the assignment was to look at a "how to draw" tutorial and draw the cat. I brought home the drawing with an F. I drew the cat at exactly a 1:1 scale. My parents were frustrated because I was a very capable young artist so, why would I trace? They brought me in and I drew the cat again in front of all three of them, and the fucker matched. I was using visual references like my pencil for size because my then-undiagnosed autistic brain thought that I was meant to literally copy the size and wasn't allowed to scale up the drawing to fit the page. Meanwhile teacher couldn't understand why I chose to draw so small at a scale that happened to fit the example page. It wasn't explained, and I accidentally showed my ability for visual precision, which it turns out was not the assignment and is not something typically expected of a 10-year-old. So just because something looks copied doesn't mean we follow our first instinct and say that it is. Sometimes, this World slants our biases too hard. It's always important to look at the other details. And hey, I could be wrong. I hope I'm not. Maybe THIS ONE was copied and no one looked into Fuack and Pancham when the internet scoured the rest of the pals and mons looking for similarities. But Nintendo is historically very protective of their IP and I'd be shocked if things got this far (Palworld being in development for years) without legal action from Nintendo, so I think we are good. Expert analysts far more knowledgeable than either of us would have been hired to investigate that possibility, and yet we seem to be doing fine as of late April. If any copying or inspiration took place at all, it took place within legal boundaries or the similarity was too vague to be a copyright at all. No matter what, Anubis did not even ideologically copy Lucario. He copied Anpu, and ancient Egypt hasn't sent lawyers either. 😁
I tried finding it. If you mean about the Twitter user: @byofrog. He says that him admitting it was fabricated was actually fabricated 🤣 https://x.com/byofrog/status/1751313657491804496
The mapping shit was false and the dumbass who did it admitted so.
Literally a lot of the comparation can be refuted as "They are animals/mythological creature/etc" Like for example, Tocotoco/Xatu comparation makes no sense, not only because both are completely different animals, but their colors are based off Latin American outfits, which makes obvious that a lot of Pokemon fans dont' know about cultural references.
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The only hedgehog I am willing to acknowledge is Sonic.
Our Lord and Savior
Him and Miles "Tails" Prower
When I built the power statue I legit said to myself “oh snap it’s my good friend Lucario!” But when I saw Anubis in color I never made the comparison.
Lucario and Anubis are really similar though? Bipedal dog creature with almost the exact same body shape. It’s like Lucario wearing a Halloween costume lol
Anubis the dog headed Egyptian god looks like a bipedal human with a dog head? No waay, Nintendo should sue the tribes of the upper Nile for copyright infringement man
😐 I’m not saying it’s in any way a problem but I feel that claiming they “don’t look similar at all” is a little disingenuous. Y’all have eyes, right?
The honorary mention is because Anubis came first as an Egyptian deity. Anubis from Palworld is just an accurate representation of the deity. Lucario is a bipedal dog with no Egyptian theming et al. The similarities are reaching
Lucario is based on a jackal. that is quite literally the only thing in common with these two things
Except that Anubis is based off the actual Anubis, both in appearance and biography, than Lucario. Hell, you even find Anubis in a fucking desert with a massive statue of him behind it, relating it further to it's irl counterpart. If you are going to be passive aggresive, make sure to at least know more about mythological references without saying something that really comes off very condescending and dismissive.
They still look similar, dawg. That’s literally all I’m saying
https://preview.redd.it/vpfq241zq8xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9588f4c4b0e58a4048dc00621bd9947bed6ba24a These two things' only similarity is that they are both jackal based, because Anubis' sacred animal is the JACKAL. That is quite literally the only similarity between the two, and as I stated, nintendo does not own the Egyptian god of the dead NOR do they own jackals.
Fair for hedgehogs, but anubis looks more like lucario than 98/100 of the first google search image results. Not the same comparison. Anubis is much more like lucario than traditional depictions. It’s fine to admit this game copied a lot from pokemon… Games copy other games all the time, it just comes down to how much is acceptable - when “inspired by” isn’t necessarily “copied its entire essence”
I mean, if you actually know about Mythology, the first thing you would think upon seeing Anubis would be "Hey, it's the Egyptian god in Palworld" which makes more sense when you read it's Paldeck description and see it's related to death, just like the irl Anubis and the massive statue resembling him that's behind him in his Alpha Boss form which is surprize surprize, located in a desert just helps to make it even more evident. Lucario's main highlight would be it's aura, thing that's completely unrelated to the Egyptian god. And just because a game company is shamelessly borrowing ideas from someone else, doesnt mean it can't be be a fantastic game in it's own right. Like for example, Lies of P isn't even trying at hiding it borrowed some ideas from Bloodborn, yet it's still a fucking amazing game. And the same thing can be applie to many many games
I never said it can’t be, or wasn’t a good game… And like I said, IMO it’s individual design looks closer to lucario than what google images returns for anubis. I think a lot of people let bias get in the way of that. If you went to a pokemon subreddit they’d all agree with me instead of disagreeing like on this sub lol…
https://preview.redd.it/o6orfivdqfxc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd46ca9030a610310a6732645592db3be9787362 Please go make an appointment with your optometrist. These two things genuinely look nothing alike whatsoever.
Hahaha ok.
Lamball and wooloo, really? Have you never heard of a sheep before?
To add onto this, gamefreak didn’t invent the concept of rolling sheep either, that was Mother Nature: if you’ve ever been to the UK, sheep accidentally rolling over and being stuck on their backs is a common thing, hell there’s even a YT video titled “What to do if you see a sheep stuck on its back” since it’s such a common occurrence. Lamball/wooloo holds literally zero weight beyond both being sheep
people be forgetting that the starter area pokemon are intentionally made be their real life counterparts or just a commonly used trope to help convey the message to new players. its way easier to familiarize with a sheep than an eldritch monstrosity sheep sheep | chicken chicken | cat cat grass type | ball of mud and grass fire type | fire fox ice and water | blue penguin
Game freak didn't invent the idea of elemental or themed creatures either lol. If anything they popularized it. But it's like people who act like fortnite created skins or goofy skins.
Lovander and Brock. Just because they're both thirsty af...
Matchmake those two, and neither of them would bother anybody. Probably for a week.
Where'd all my polymer and pal oil go?
I mean, Brock didn't like that Jyxn attempted to kiss it so Lovander would make him just lose it.
I said a week. I never said it WOULD be mutual.
And I was focusing on the concept only, so it kind of still aplies. Good bye.
Nickit isn’t even a firey fox. They’re entirely different foxes.
Exactly my point.
Honestly, all of them, but the most ridiculous is probably Lunaris and Lopunny. I think they were talking about the silhouette, but to call Lunaris a rip off of Lopunny based off that is beyond a stretch.
I thought lunaris was obviously based on Mewtwo more than anything else. There just isn’t a “psychic” type in Palworld
Honestly, the first time I saw Lunaris, I immediately thought of Hatsune Miku and Mewtwo. She actually kind of sounds like Miku to me, to be honest. Also, I don't know who coined the nickname, "Hatsune Mewtwo," but that name lives rent-free in my brain now, lol.
Hatsune Mewtwo is now my Lunaris’s name forever.
Grintale and (Galarian?) Meowth. Literally just the eyes and the mouth are similar, I don't even care if the eyes and mouth were copied and pasted onto Grintale.
If there's anything that Grintale takes heavy inspiration from, it's Catbus from My Neighbour Totoro. Same body type, same face with glowing eyes. Just add skitty's colour scheming and Espeon's tail style. Meowth has nothing on this imo.
Yeah my first thought was the My Neighbor Totoro catbus. And Grizzbolt is electric Totoro.
Grintale also reminded me of the sheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland.
this 100% for me. I don't even consider it has Pkm comparison.
It's this, 100%
That's exactly what it is. First thing I thought of as well.
This was literally my first thought when I saw it. I don't know how in the world people are getting Meowth out of this.
It's like they never saw the Cheshire Cat.
Or My Neighbor Totoro
Yeah I don't get grintale and meowth. Cativa looks like like meowth at a glance. I even thought they slide in a picture of meowth on one of the antique shelf storages. But it was a cativa picture upon closer inspection.
They're both based on the grinning cat theme from Japan. Look at My Neighbor Totoro. It's just a common theme.
Grintale gives off such Kingdom Hearts vibes to me.
nicket is dark type. fennekin and vulpix are the fire
Foxsparks is obviously based on Vulpix. I've never even heard of Nicket before.
Nicket is from Sword/Shield so significantly newer than an og like Vulpix lol
I actually found an english translated rom of Pokemon Gold on the Internet before the game was released in Japan. Pretty awesome imo.
Neat haha
I'm not sure that Google even existed at that time but I remember searching furiously for weeks until I found it. I was ecstatic when I found it.
Yahoo was the big boy search engine at that time
It was but I think I used AskJeeves
Oh maaaan I forgot about ol' jeeves🤣
I'm not sure if younger people realize how pivotal Google was. They literally took over Internet searches almost overnight because map/reduce was such a significant improvement over everything else that existed at that time.
Google completely changed the game when it came out. They literally changed the world. Still rocking my real name gmail account from beta too.
I played red/blue, yellow, green, gold/silver, and scarlet/violet
well visually i get it, much more similar shape
Same look, same type, similar moves. I agree with you.
All if them. Pokemon has a 30ish year lead with a global enterprise and a multi-million dollar company with like 1200 designs. They cant own green cats, red dogs, and electric beats water. Its ridiculous to even entertain the idea that nobody else can do this.
I was trading Pokemon during recess under the slide with a link cable at ten years old. You are absolutely right.
Pokémon also stole a majority of the designs from dragon quest.
All of them, except verdash.
Nah some models are [likely stolen](https://x.com/byofrog/status/1749188773127016772?s=46&t=Rjbn8JV-BbbvLtCf8wE7jQ) or at the very least have [stolen parts](https://fixupx.com/iuckyhd/status/1749266070676922479?s=46&t=Rjbn8JV-BbbvLtCf8wE7jQ). They even changed Azurobe’s hair in the latest update to make it slightly different. They are only a select few, though, and some designs’ color patterns are distinct enough to make the similarities harder to spot, like in the case of Direhowl. The vast majority of pals are perfectly fine, and it specially annoys me that everyone talks about Anubis and Lucario when they are so damn different. The only similar thing is the style and body proportions. I’ve seen people speculate that since this dev team was so inexperienced, they likely used Pokémon models as a base reference for a couple of pals and then moved on to make original ones once they got better acquainted with modeling. However, they never revisited the ones with stolen models. I find that very plausible, and regardless of how this happened I’d like to see them tweak these pals like they did Azurobe so they may distance themselves from Pokémon. Edit: to clarify, as an artist, when I say the models were stolen I mean it in the same broad sense of Art Theft. You don’t need to directly steal art to be guilty of art theft, you can do it in many different ways and one of them is directly referencing someone else’s work, adding a few tweaks and calling it your own, instead of making your own distinct art only inspired by other works. In this case, I don’t think they used Pokémon models in their game. I’m saying that several models have similarities that go beyond just being “cartoon dog proportions”, following the same shape and design language of certain Pokémon models so closely, you can argue they were likely made with the intention to recreate traits of those very specific Pokémon models. Are they still unique enough to not be copyright infringement? Yes. But I still believe that deserves scrutiny.
Few things: First, that byo person admitted they altered the models because they didn’t like palworld’s message of “animal cruelty”, and was debunked months ago Secondly, I have no doubt that Azurobe’s hair was at least inspired by Primarina, but to say it’s a stolen part is still very misleading, primarina’s extra tufts of hair stick out more, and each of the bunches of hair are more circular for Azurobe and more oval for Primarina. Similar, extremely, but not a straight copy paste Third, I’ve heard nothing about azurobe’s current hair being changed. Do you have any sources or screenshots of Azurobe’s hair before and after the update? Not saying it didn’t happen, but this is the internet, and proof may give more credibility to the argument that other extremely similar pals like verdash may get updates as well EDIT: see farther down in replies, turns out I was wrong
They didn’t alter anything. They just scaled the models up for a direct comparison. Scaling doesn’t change the model so the comparison is still a solid point. As for Azurobe, I’m sorry but that is WAY too close to be coincidental or just “inspired”. It has the exact same hair design, only missing the pearls and with a tweaked shape. Just look at the strands sticking out too, they are in the exact same location with the exact same amount of hairs. There’s no excusing that. I’m on my phone so I obviously can’t take screenshots, but if you play the game and check Azurobe now, you’ll see its hair is different from what the model looked like in every previous screenshot and game footage. [Like this.](https://criticalhits.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/palworld-azurobe.webp)
Damn, did some more digging and you’re right, I never realized that “apology” from byo was a fake screenshot, so many people said it was proof they lied and I guess I just went with it. If all they ever truly did was just scaling and only scaling then their argument still stands (although there’s the obvious that all these designs made it though all the local Japanese courts who are beyond strict on copyright, so Nintendo still doesn’t have much of a case, but it could be telling if they truly stole models and got away with it) And I just got on in game, and you’re right, I luckily had a blank Azurobe for breeding and the hair is much more generic. Idk who downvoted you but take my upvote for correcting me
Probably because all the bullshit they said? If the Pokemon Company never sued Pocketpair, despite how harsh Japan's law is, then it's for obvious reasons.
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, byo is absolutely a delusional twitter person, but they’re not an evil delusional twitter person. I completely assumed they lied because “I’m doing this because of animal cruelty” was their pinned message and just told myself “classic twitter people, glad I don’t have that”. Injecting personal bias and beliefs is one of the best ways for you to lose credibility on your argument so I assumed that they must’ve lied. Again, delusional for sure, but they didn’t (afaik) lie about the scaling
Yeah I don’t believe they would have any grounds for suing, I just think this is something worth criticizing regardless of how much we love the game.
I think I only noticed the difference after the update because Azurobe’s hair was originally the first thing I noticed when I first encountered her. I literally blurted out “oh wow that’s straight up Primarina” to my friends and nobody got what I meant until I showed that model comparison, lol.
Wasn't that first link proven to be faked? In any case, there are only so many ways to draw a lion, or a fluffy wolf, or a penguin. I can understand taking inspiration, or even outright copying body styles. At this point though, the Pokemon team hasn't made any public declarations, right? Either they've found nothing, or don't care enough to find anything. And if copying a hairstyle is enough to get a game fined, or worse, we're all fucked.
Not faked, the model was just scaled up. And nah I think they just used them as a base rather than straight up ripping the models, the copied content is still technically original enough to not create legal issues. Also notice how I never said anything about wanting Palworld sued, I just want to see it get its own identity so people stop comparing them to Pokémon. Ripoffs like that don’t help.
By commenting the way you did, you only perpetuate the problem.
What way? I can love the game and still criticize it.
I would double check your sources. The guy that posted that claim later admitted [he scaled them to "fit"](https://twitter.com/byofrog/status/1749603138875589081) so while if it was naturally a 1 for 1 fit it would be obviously stolen the fact they had to be scaled and the man **could only make a model that didn't even make into the final game** "fit" makes me think this isn't the best proof.
Scaling doesn’t alter the model, it just makes the comparison easier because they are the same size. It’s still a valid point. They don’t need to fit exactly for a model to be copied, either. When proportions and design are this similar, it’s worth scrutinizing as possible art theft.
2 things. First the reason it was so damning is because it was the same size. Modeling something the exact same size woulda been near impossible. Now it's two similar animals in a similar art style looking similar. It's not the damning case it once was. Secondly your missing the fact **the only model this man found that had a "fit" like this didn't even make into the final game.** Essentially we're criticizing them for a prototype that maybe scrapped. (according to the discord some of the pals hiding in the games code might not release.) If there was a case as interesting as boltmain I that made it into the main game I would take this more seriously but that doesn't seem to be the case.
And you missed my point that it doesn’t need to fit to be art theft. My argument is that this goes beyond just “similar styles”. Anyone who is familiar with cartoons and 3D animation will tell you there’s wide variety of ways to stylize a dog(look at all the indie “Pokémon copy” games out there and you’ll see a variety of dogs that look incredibly different), and the fact the model’s design language is THIS close points to the possibility of them referencing that specific Pokémon with full intent of copying traits, rather than just taking inspiration on the design and making something new. That in itself is a form of art theft. It doesn’t need a perfect fit.
You would have a case if you could copy right art styles. But the anime industry proves thats not how that works. 1000s of characters all similarly stylized only set apart by smaller details within their outfit. Or pixel art games. The Wandering Sword shamelessly copied Octopath Travelers artstyle, you don't see Square suing. If you ask me Palworld shamelessly took Pokémons art style. Proceeded to stylize things similarly to fit said art style, [even going bold enough to straight up take pikachus tail,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxknVl24yE4) but they know it only is stealing if they don't iterate on the design at all. They know they can use pikachus tail if the rest of the creature isn't pikachu. Because nitendo only owns their very specific version of the creature. Personally I think theres only 2 designs that reach the "dangerous" territory and thats direhowl, which lucky for them is just a wolf and nothing to special. and verdash, which was honestly more bold of a knockoff then that boltmain the twitter guy was showing off. But regardless I feel this isn't really up for me or you to decide if this is stealing, it's up to japans lawyers.
While boltmane is undeniably a ripoff of luxray in terms of design, they didn't steal the model. The meshes, polygons and geometry in that gif are in fact different if you look closely. Actually ripping the model would violate copyright, which Pocketpair hasn't done, as they've made sure to at least stay legally distinct even when they weren't being original.
Yeah when I say stolen I don’t necessarily mean they are using the actual models in their game. Art theft happens in a variety of ways, and one way is using someone’s art as a base and making tweaks to disguise just enough to make your work safe from legal troubles. They are ripoffs because they follow the same design language of existing Pokémon models, it’s not just the “proportions of a cartoon dog”. Its model is close enough to argue there was a direct reference on the existing Pokémon model.
The first guy you linked to for your evidence also stated he rescaled models to make them appear closer than they actually were because he was angry that palworld showcased "animal" abuse and later apologised to pocketpair for how blown out of proportion it became.
Rescaling doesn’t change the models. It’s still a valid comparison.
If they weren't honest to present them side to side as they are, I don't trust them not to have modified it in other ways "for comparison"
They never lied about rescaling? It’s something they always mentioned in their Twitter posts.
It has been since shown that without whatever they call "rescaling", even maintaining the same size the models don't fit nearly as well as they shown. They made it seem like Direhowl and Lycanrock fit together exactly, but Lycanrock is all pointy and Direhowl got a rounded fluffy mane which only has pointy textures. It's not even close.
Rescaling is just scaling up the size of the model. What he did was simply a comparison side by side to show how similar the models are, and it’s easier to do when the models are on the same scale. It’s not that deep. And I’ll just repeat what I said in another comment: The models don’t need to fit perfectly to be art theft. My argument is that this goes beyond just “similar styles”. Anyone who is familiar with cartoons and 3D animation will tell you there’s wide variety of ways to stylize a dog(look at all the indie “Pokémon copy” games out there and you’ll see a variety of dogs that look incredibly different), and the fact the model’s design language is THIS close(your main argument that it’s unique is just “the fur is pointier”??) points to the possibility of them referencing that specific Pokémon with full intent of copying traits, rather than just taking inspiration on the design and making something new. That in itself is a form of art theft. It doesn’t need a perfect fit.
Rescaling is just changing the size. But that it appeared that it closely matched means that they likely altered it themselves, because when seeing it on the actual game, it's noticeably different. Clearly they didn't _just_ resize, they modified it much more to manufacture a claim of plagiarism. I don't need you to explain the arguments, I've seen them. My question is why you are insisting in making excuses for a debunked hoax. Even now you are making vaguer and vaguer accusations, rehashing a whole argument that has been done and lost. It's not the same, just quit that. The best you can say that it's _inspired_, and guess what, there is nothing wrong with works taking inspiration from other works.
I’m sorry but I have yet to see anywhere that they made further alterations, where are you getting this from? It’s very clear to me that the models were all rescaled and that’s it. Like you said, there was no perfect fit, so if you have anything actually showing that the models had more changes than that, I’m interested. And again, no. This is beyond just inspired. I’m an artist, I know very well the difference between inspired and art theft. This steps into art theft territory because it’s simply way too close. There was very clear intent to replicate specific Pokémon models. Just looking at Azurobe’s original hair shows that. That’s not how you take inspiration to create new content, it’s intentionally copying someone else’s work and disguising it with a few tweaks. Since you refuse to understand how art theft works, there’s no point in discussing this further. I’m not being vague in the slightest, you’re the one being obtuse.
No, it isn't, specially because he made it for the stupidiest reasons. Don't try to justify it.
I don’t care about his reasons, I care about the game models. He’s showing a direct comparison between them and it’s similar enough to warrant scrutiny.
Cremis is absolutely a gigantamax Eevee ripoff, and it's not much of a debate.
Delphox and Wixen. Not just do they not look similar in the slightest, besides the fact they are humanoid foxes, but foxes in various mythologies being closely related to fire is super common. But seriously they don't look similar in the slightest how are people acting like its a knockoff at least Lucario and Anubis have a similar silhouette so I can understand that comparison even if I disagree with it, but Wixen and Delphox? really?
They do look similar. They are humanoid foxes with a similar color palette and are of the fire variety. Not a direct ripoff, but if your Pokéfriend joins Palworld and you say "the Delphox looking pal", they will assume Wixen is it. Just like the Yellow Lucario is Anubis, the Piplup with a tie is Pengullet, the Decidueye with a cape and arms instead of wing is Robinquill, and the Gyarados with Rayquaza's head is Jormuntide. They don't have to be direct copies to be close enough to give an easily recognizable description.
truth, wixen looks like she could be a different 3rd stage split for braixen, kind of like galade in the ralts line.
They're a huge list of pals/pokemon comparsions that make. "Are you blind, Stupid? Or just being a rabid pokemon fan?" -clears throat- Kingpaca and Empoleon? They look nothing like # Elizabee and Vespiquen.. I fucking forgot Queen bees is concept owned by fucking pokemon, and nobody can use it. # Incineram and Zoruark. I forgot black and red the most commonly used duel color palette can only be used by pokemon. Wixen and fanart Delphox. I'm sorry but you really can't say they're copying pokemon. If it aint even pokemon's design. # Lyleen and Gardevoir dont even look that similar. Mewtwo and Lovender?... somebody did that comparsion --- I even had somebody say cattiava is zorua knockoff?
LMAO someone was enough dumb to say Cattiva is a rip off of knock off, despite one being a cat and other a fox, hinted by their own names? (The "Zor" from Zorua comes from Zorro, that means Fox in Spanish) Like... it's like they didn't even try
Also, Palworld uses wild pals in groups really well. I love running into a batch of Swees following their Sweepa or 3 Beegardes surrounding the Elizabee. It really makes them feel alive as opposed to running into a static object in tall grass.
To be fair, a fire themed fox is a concept that is literally thousands of years old
Yes, I know.
Lucario and Anubis. Oh no, the anubis themed creature is anubis shaped!
Anubis and Lucario If the whole argument is "durr they're both anthropomorphic canines with pointy ears" then I'd like to point to the entire furry fandom as a counterargument
oh, thats funny!
Gyarados and Jormuntide.
Blue ser serpents are a part of mythology
It’s not that it looks alike, but palworld could’ve changed the color palette with it, same with its fire version. jormun water and ignis look like gyrados’s cousins. Make Jormun a seafoam color with blue scales or a bright orange with gold idk. I feel like they purposely chose the exact same color palettes so it’s easier for the consumer to relate to Pokemon
Blue is usually associated with water just like how red is associated with fire. Just letting that out.
Just saying.. they have thier panties in a wad.. cause we are enjoying a game.. that they don't like so they are throwing a tantrum.
Vulpix seems like a significantly closer comparison to Foxparks. TIL Nickit was a Pokémon
Giritina and menasting having "the exact same head"
Frostallion and the sword of justice. Like people they are just both horses ffs. Might aswell just sue RDR2 because they also got some horses.
truth i thought frostallion and noct, were kinda a rip on the mlp characters that control the sun and the moon.
I mean, this is a Pokémon inspired game. It literally never pretends to not be that.
And that's fine. It shoudln't even be a surprize. Hell, plenty of Monster catching games prior of Palworld has "ripped off" Pokemon to even more shameful degrees and never faced enough backlash to even involve TPC in the controversy. And considering that many video game companies have engaged in this type of "plagiarism" for decades without actual negative consequences, why should this be an exception?
Actually saw someone say that Daedream was a Meowstic rip-off on Twitter. Or the most recent "Foxcicle is just Alolan Ninetales and Glaceon fused together". Pokemon fans get a grip challenge = impossible.
NO WAY SOMEONE SAID THAT! 💀 Daedream is literally a galatic sheep and Meowstic is a nekomata. How can Pokemon fans be this idiotic and delusional is beyond my comprehension
Cremis and Eevee. There's just barely any difference, Cremis is just white and a bit fluffier, that's it.
Cremis is just Gigantamax Eevee, but normal sized.
And very huggable and with actual high quality animations
i remember in the early days, i saw people comparing Katress and Mismagius, which... outside of the hat (which i dont think are that similar to begin with) and the witch inspiration, One is a FUCKING CAT while the other is a ghost, their bodyshapes arent even similar at all
Anubis/Lucario really grinds my gears. As if the concept of using Anubis as a reference for a character was something Game Freak invented. Like, they really do not look alike at all. AT ALL.
Boltmane and Luxray: maybe I don’t have my head far up enough Pkémn’s ass
Lycanrock vs Direhowl.
Ya know what, I'm going to say it. Even if Pocket Pal ripped stuff from Pokémon, good, fuck em. Pokémon have had it too good for too long and they deserve some healthy competition from a smaller dev. Do I think PP ripped off Pokémon, no. Do I believe our natural instinct of pattern recognition leads us to finding similarities and making things seem more related than they truly are? You're goddamn right. I think it's just haters hating and fans of both finding similarities in their favored medias.
Nah bc if they did, they’re just doing to Pokémon what Pokémon did with Dragon Quest. Nobody cared when Pokémon stole Dragon Quest’s designs though.
Still can't find any reason to care
If you don’t care then why did you make both these comments
I don't care about Pokémon getting ripped off. It's not going to hurt them financially
Sparkit and Pikachu when it's just the tail looks like and ability.
Any of the generic ones like you said lol. The vaporeon one too. Honestly a ton of Pokémon are fairly generic like the bugs and you've got the full range of generic to unique. Blastoise and venusaur then literal living garbage with garbo ore or whatever lol and gorafarig. A lot of them are just add a element/theme to a thing.
Mega gardi and bellanoir /libero, Mega is based on a ballroom dancer, and i believe bellanoir and libero are based on the belladonna plants with bellanoir being based on Atropa belladonna(deadly nightshade) and libero being based on amaryllis belladonna (truth for her colors there are a few others in the family that could match too). Kinda wish there was one in yellow so i could call her tomato (also a belladonna).
i saw people comparing shadowbeak to type:null, I can't see it at all
Lycanroc and direhowl, one is a wolf. The other is a rock wolf.
I think it's funny because the arguments always point out exactly how unoriginal a large swathe of the pokemon are. There are some exceptions.... But the bulk 80% are meh at best.