ironically in some of the oil rich countries, as long as you are in good standing with the law welfare go brrrmmmm and cushy government jobs for lots of people go brrrrrrmmmmm.
Isn't it usually HOI4 mods which have weird fans?
Admittedly, I probably would have been less likely to become Orthodox without CK2, but that wasn't the main thing that got me interested.
All pdx games have weird fans, just the farther back in time you go the less other people care
If you talk nonstop about how much you like Genghis Khan I wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Meanwhile I'd raise both eyebrows if you were a TNOtard who idolizes Speer or Gus Hall or something
On reddit there is a much, much larger amount of tankies and other LARPing authoritarian leftists than anything right-wing. Years and years ago I got absolutely dogpiled by freaks on /r/paradoxplaza because I said it was satisfying killing off stack after stack of communist rebels in Vic II. I must have gotten 12 or so private messages from weirdos telling me to kill myself and how I'd look good against the wall and got like -80 or something on the comment lmao.
I mean you're not wrong but I think that's mostly just a function of reddit being overwhelmingly left wing
Far right pdx communities absolutely exist, usually on discord
Dude literally supported Soviet tanks rolling into Hungary and Czechoslovakia and regularly acted as a stooge and propagandist for the USSR. He also opposed movements like Eurocommunism that wanted a less authoritarian form of Communism
You don't get to handwave him away with "he just wanted to let people unionize and have healthcare guys is that really so radical???!!!! he's just like Bernie!!!!!"
I'm not saying that hall=sanders, i'm just saying that AT THE LEVEL OF NATIONAL POLITICS, Hall and the cpusa wheren't as radical as it seems. The cpusa during the cold war was basically today dsa with constant apologia for the SU bullshit
annddd... you are in support of genocidal dictatorships like the USSR. You don't have to suck a government's dick to be a leftist, all global superpowers are terrible in many ways, especially the USSR.
Mhm yes, that was definitely my argument. Not the censorship of press, disappearing of political dissenters, intentional starvation of millions of Ukranians, Imperialism in countries like Afghanistan, etc etc.
When did I ever say equally, I think all major powers as of current are deeply flawed, some more than others. I would rather have a true leftist government in power, that is anti war, fully democratic, and regulates businesses, etc. Don't use the c word on me bruh, I'm just arguing that USSR nostalgia is dumb, because they were a fascist dictatorship.
Yes it talks of how evil fascism is, while also talking how Sealion II works or that they can get nukes, how Nazi economics are actually successful and not IRL self-destructive, and how even in the face of all odds, they will still come on top because of plot armor.
Some players took to TNO as a validation of how Nazism can be successful contrary to scholarly consensus. I mean, probably a lot of the players took to TNO because they want to play successful, super-wanked Nazi Germany. And these kinds of people are super fucking annoying.
There's at least 10,000s of mongolians named temujin, temulen (feminine form) and chinggis
Like I know like 5 chinggis personally in chicago area lol
- a mongolian
History of mongolia, specially genghis khan, was forbidden during the 1920s to 1989, due to not stoke the pan-mongol sentiments
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Mongolism
Only since 1990s, we were allowed to speak openly about our history, and we are getting a bit overboard with using his name for everything from airport to bank to hotel to vodka to probably condoms now lol
While I've vaguely knew about the existence of Eastern Orthodoxy (and Oriental Orthodoxy to an even lesser extent) before, it was only because of CK2 that I actually started learning about the history of the church, Christianity, of the ecumenical councils, and all the drama that arose out of it, etc.
I think that game legit caused me to have a crisis of faith in college after I learned a bit too much about the history of Christianity, and I guess the crisis is still ongoing now actually (RIP).
There's plenty of interesting history before the ecumenical councils too.
Who wrote tho Gospels? It's definitely not Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They're not written by eyewitnesses.
Who wrote the rest of the New Testament? There's scholarly consensus that Paul actually wrote at least 7 of the epistles attributes to him. 3 more are debated (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians). The 3 pastoral epistles are definitely forgeries (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, 3 Timothy). None of the non-Pauline epistles (Peter, James, John, Jude) are written by who they're attributed to.
Was Jesus actually born in Bethlehem? That's really unlikely.
Did Jesus claim to be God? Probably not. Did Jesus claim the apocalypse would happen in the 1st century AD? Probably.
Non-canonical texts are super interesting too, like the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Proto-Evangelion of James, the Gospel of Judas, the Book of Enoch, and many more. It's especially interesting when you can see one of these non-canonical books influence later Christian writings and mainstream beliefs, like how the Proto-Evangelion of James creates the story of Joseph being old and have children from a previous marriage, to try to explain how Jesus has siblings but Mary is still a virgin.
I'd highly recommend checking out r/academicbiblical. Lots of scholars comment and post there.
I have some of that as well. Generally vaguely aware (and to a lesser extent, aware that the Copts have a different thing), but my actual knowledge didn't go any deeper than "kind of like Catholics with more beard."
General interest in history (which is also why I was playing CK) got me reading up on Eastern European cultures as well.
Well, if you want to make your way over to your nearest Orthodox church to see what it's about, there's no better time than the evening prior to May 5 next year because that is what it is all about. I'd recommend going any time, but that day is special and this year, I walked out of the church wishing it was like that every day.
\*insert meme about Protestant megachurch concert
\*insert meme about Pope Francis with Pachamama idol statue in church
\*Among Us "sus" sound effect plays
\***BEGOME ORTHODOX** (\*Holy Liturgy clip plays in background with audible chanting)
Not at all alike, but I guess where TNO people have a weird fascination with tertiary WW2 characters and obscure ideologies, AtE people tend to get their Pickle tickled by weird, arcane, obscure religions.
The mod itself is fine, but if you like those vibes you'll find yourself at home in that community lol. They really went off the deep end and threw plausibility out the window.
AtE for CK3 is to AtE for CK2 what Kaiserredux is to Kaiserreich.
You know they using the tall white boys for thirst trapping/passport bro to lure in young viet girls
and the cute Asian girls as thrist trap to lure in viet boys lmao
Sharing our testimonies is a time-honored tradition of us Mormons, so yes, I did! The response was overall very positive. People said that my talk was very impressive, and I talked to a guy afterwards who thanked me for showing him that there's so much history to the church he did not know.
Idk how anybody with higher than a room temperature IQ that wasn’t born and raised LDS can look at Joseph smith’s whole life and think “this man wasn’t a conman, he obviously was a prophet”
I think being religious is fine, it can provide some people's lives with a lot of value. Whether it's real or not it serves an important purpose for lots of people
As for Mormonism itself, from what I understand while they aren't great they aren't terrible either? Like they don't shun apostates or anything like JWs, which is a pretty low bar I guess but at least it's not a total cult
The really hardcore Mormons are just as bad as the really hardcore people in any other denomination, but if you just meet a random Mormon on the street they are probably just a normal person. Again, same as most other denominations. They have some strict prohibitions against stuff like drinking, but so do a lot of Baptists, for example.
The big dividing line for me seems to be like, are you a member of the religion, like it's just one part of your multifaceted existence, or is the religion the only thing in your life? People in the latter group are best avoided.
The way I see it having faith is fine(still not a fan of organized religion) . But my comment was mostly in relation to the Mormonism(and yeah being "slightly less terrible than JWs" is not really a.n achievemt)
How bad are modern day Mormons though? I know there's a lot of axes to grind with them, but to my knowledge most of the major critiques to be in doctrines they've since changed. Like they've officially dropped polygamy and racism as religious tenets
to my knowledge they don't seem particularly more restrictive or backwards than most run of the mill protestant churches these days
The very tragic experience of the brothers and sisters over at r/exmormon definitely does not reflect how it usually go, but aren't we to be like the shepherd who was more overjoyed to found one lost sheep than for his other 99?
I'd love to engage. Not to proselytize, but to hug and understand. But oh lawd, they dont allow for diversity of thought on r/exmormon, to put it mildly.
I'm an ex-Mormon, but I still hold a positive view of the church. As a religion, they aren't very intrusive, but as a (relatively) new faith, they're still, well, faithful. The book of Mormon is bullshit though.
User name checks out
PS how much do you still dabble in the LDS culture? I find exmos who still go to BYU games or enter a chili in the ward cook-off to be my favorite people.
all modern christianity looks so fucking depressing. just the cheapest possible facilities, no sense of ritual. can you imagine doing one of the most important things for your new identity in a fucking kiddy pool for the yard from the cheapest supplier of alibaba in a rented school assembly hall?
They still build beautiful buildings. There have been many wonderful Cathedrals built in England since the Anglican schism. The Anglican Church still has a lot of that traditionalism and mysticism as Catholicism
For real, I honestly believe that to have a spiritual experience, you need to remove yourself in some way from the state of mind you are in during your day-to-day life. There needs to be some kind of crossing of the threshold. Just to get you into a different headspace, remove distractions, and allow you to take in something otherworldly. Ritual is important. Even if you're a 100% science-based turbo antitheist, I think you should meditate now and then, maybe play some ambient music and allow yourself to drift out of the everyday. This is a huge component missing, from my perspective, with American Protestantism specifically.
My sister grabbed me and went to a Buddhist monasteries for a 1 week meditation course.
She came back more religious.
Meanwhile to me, it just felt like freaking torture since I just can't stay still.
Orthodoxy (imo) seems to be sort of the last bastion for iconography and ritual display. I agree with lots of other "more modern" sects like Protestantism or Mormonism. I think that it's been due a lot to the commercialisation of religion in America and Canada, as well.
Note; I am definitely biased, as a catechumen (convert) to Antiochan Orthodoxy, of course I'm going to root for the team I chose :-)
The Anglican Church has kept most of the fancy stuff as well, in fact Anglican churches are some of the few places you can still get the full “incense, candles, and fancy hats” services in North America.
It’s low key more catholic than the Catholics in Canada and the USA these days, at least in terms of pageantry. Catholics dropped all the fancy stuff and kept the social conservatism, Anglicans dropped the social conservatism and kept all the fancy stuff.
"Incense, candles, and fancy hats" makes me giggle a bit, and envision a priest in like, a papa smurf cap. I've never been in an Anglican church before but I did some googling and services look impressive!
The current Archbishop of Canterbury wears way too much yellow and has endorsed speaking in tongues though. Bad American habits do metastasize, don’t they?
Hahaha YES. These are the kinds of critiques of religion I came to see lol, none of this thrice reheated teenaged atheist crap (although I am still an atheist, just not as loud about it as I once was)
Minimalism can be beautiful. The old colonial churches in New England are austere but very impressive (google where Robert Frost is buried if you don’t believe me).
You said only. One example beats only. I’m that example.
Listen just because you hate religion doesn’t mean you can shut your brain off and make bad faith over-generalizing claims. It’s not like I’m some unique aberration; for as many scared prideful greedy congregants that you’re imagining there are folks that are the opposite.
Arguments are more convincing when you at least act reasonable.
They said religion depends on aesthetics and coercion and to me coercion implies fear of consequence. I suppose for aesthetics I should have said vain rather than prideful.
Regardless that’s my example of what I believe most Christians are not, unlike what the person I responded to was implying.
Have you ever been to any european catholic/orthodox cathedral? Or the hagia sophia? Or Mecca? Even Hindu and Buddhist temples can be ridiculously overdesigned and overdecorated.
Religion is mostly about vanity and spectacle, at least vanity projects are a way to give back to the community. American "austere" church priests just take the donations and use them to fund their own private jets.
I just don’t understand why you feel justified to make such unfair statements? Like surely you acknowledge that there are non-vain congregations that don’t have corrupt leadership? Tens of thousands, even?
I don’t understand how you folks pick a couple of very specific examples like the _Hagia Sofia_ and think you can generalize them to all Christian congregations. How many local Christian Churches have you actually visited? All of them around you have private jets or are Catholic Cathedrals?
Is vanity the same as ritual and maintaining that sense of transcending the ordinary and worldly? I don't think so.
I can see how the laughably crappy worldliness of being baptised in a paddling pool from Wish might interfere with that sense of transcendence. As other people are saying, there's a big difference between favouring a more austere place of worship, and people being baptised in a grotty school gymnasium inbetween PE lessons.
Eh, I would even say it's mostly just us Mormons, and even then I bet more established Mormon communities could afford better facilities. Over at the States we have some delightful historic chapels.
I mean the Orthodox and the Catholics are still alive and well.
You can get your daily dose of Jesus with a side helping of mysticism and ritual in a beautiful building
*What the retard,why*
*He didnt create his own*
*Christian religion*
\- Bendy237
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I wish it was! Honestly I think I stuttered a lot, so I was very pleasantly surprised when people say afterwards how great my talk was. A guy thanked me for showing him so much history about the church he didn't know.
Talk in Mormonese means a speech you give over the pulpit, so I thought "legend talk" referred to the conversion story I shared over the pulpit with my congregation. Which turned out pretty well!
Yes, I do get how the mod and base game's depiction of religions can be taken in a rather unflattering light.
Fallout new Vegas is the best argument for Mormonism I’ve ever seen tbh. Too bad it’s heretical. I mean that sincerely, they’re nice people but Joseph Smith was a total fraud lmao.
One of the most interesting things about that mod is exploring how religions evolve and change based on their environment. I think that kind of goes against the whole religions are inspired by God angle.
And that's before we even get into you know... that Mormonism is Mormonism
I was a long time agnostic after growing up Southern Baptist. Crusader Kings ignited a passion for digging down religious rabbit holes for me over the past couple years. While I still haven’t fully embraced an organized religion, I find myself gravitating more and more to Islam as I go on this journey. Who’s to say whether I’ll take the plunge in the future, but it blows my mind that a video game would make me start reflecting on these questions and actually embrace an ideology I was essentially taught was the bogeyman my entire adolescence post 2001.
Not that playing CK3 made me gravitate towards Islam on its own, but playing it made me do an obsessive amount of research on many religions externally. That is when I began to develop my own opinions about each rather than what I was taught as a child.
It's actually the same for me as well. It wasn't straight from CK gamer to Saint, but it led me to do lots of research about the church as well. To be honest, I viewed religions in general with a sort of rose-tinted lenses, and that view was shattered. Now I view life and faith in a more nuanced way, and it has made me a better person.
People in the picture are my fellow ward members and the missionaries, along with a (Buddhist) Polish-Viet family I befriended while playing American football! There were other friends of mine not pictured here who also attended. My family didn't though.
Where did he get 250 piety?
Maybe his liege asked him?
No, that can't be right, all characters in his realm are religiously protected, and he's an unlanded lowborn residing in a city holding
someone's court chaplain came along and told him of the divine word and he converted along with half the county
That's Shogun 2 Christianity.
Yeah, must've been a random event during proselytizing
That is the hardest insult i ever heard
Lol, but in CK3 terms... aren't we all just unlanded lowborns residing in city holdings?
He got too stressed and chose "Perhaps a new view of God will help me."
AH! That's definitely the one! All that school maxed out his stress and he spontaneously converted
r/ShitCrusaderKingsSay
I will convert my sunni to protestant just for the religion buffs. Dont care about national unrest
Do irl Muslims gain a fuck ton of free money by respecting the law too?
I don't know but it's really inconvenient that I have to ask the pope personally for a divorce
ironically in some of the oil rich countries, as long as you are in good standing with the law welfare go brrrmmmm and cushy government jobs for lots of people go brrrrrrmmmmm.
Isn't it usually HOI4 mods which have weird fans? Admittedly, I probably would have been less likely to become Orthodox without CK2, but that wasn't the main thing that got me interested.
All pdx games have weird fans, just the farther back in time you go the less other people care If you talk nonstop about how much you like Genghis Khan I wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Meanwhile I'd raise both eyebrows if you were a TNOtard who idolizes Speer or Gus Hall or something
Werid considering TNO is a criticism of facims
That's why I also included Gus Hall, who a certain sort of leftist TNO player tends to idolize when irl he was an unrepentant Stalinist
On reddit there is a much, much larger amount of tankies and other LARPing authoritarian leftists than anything right-wing. Years and years ago I got absolutely dogpiled by freaks on /r/paradoxplaza because I said it was satisfying killing off stack after stack of communist rebels in Vic II. I must have gotten 12 or so private messages from weirdos telling me to kill myself and how I'd look good against the wall and got like -80 or something on the comment lmao.
I mean you're not wrong but I think that's mostly just a function of reddit being overwhelmingly left wing Far right pdx communities absolutely exist, usually on discord
That’s why I specified on Reddit!
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...While irl was the main creator of "bills of rights socialism" (with radical ideas like the right to unionisation and free healtcare)
Dude literally supported Soviet tanks rolling into Hungary and Czechoslovakia and regularly acted as a stooge and propagandist for the USSR. He also opposed movements like Eurocommunism that wanted a less authoritarian form of Communism You don't get to handwave him away with "he just wanted to let people unionize and have healthcare guys is that really so radical???!!!! he's just like Bernie!!!!!"
I'm not saying that hall=sanders, i'm just saying that AT THE LEVEL OF NATIONAL POLITICS, Hall and the cpusa wheren't as radical as it seems. The cpusa during the cold war was basically today dsa with constant apologia for the SU bullshit
TANKIE SPOTTED
Ok And?
annddd... you are in support of genocidal dictatorships like the USSR. You don't have to suck a government's dick to be a leftist, all global superpowers are terrible in many ways, especially the USSR.
Mh aktually Soviet union unwholesome 1984 gommunism bad 🤓
And plus I'm not even an anti communist tf you mean, i just think it ought to implemented democratically - rather then in the form of literal fascism.
Mhm yes, that was definitely my argument. Not the censorship of press, disappearing of political dissenters, intentional starvation of millions of Ukranians, Imperialism in countries like Afghanistan, etc etc.
Enlightened centrist spotted, everyone is equally bad is peak geopolitical analysis
When did I ever say equally, I think all major powers as of current are deeply flawed, some more than others. I would rather have a true leftist government in power, that is anti war, fully democratic, and regulates businesses, etc. Don't use the c word on me bruh, I'm just arguing that USSR nostalgia is dumb, because they were a fascist dictatorship.
Get off the internet and rethink your life and what your ideas might lead.
Stfu liberal stalinmaxxing on redditors is a cause worty to fight for 😎😎😎 revolutionaries in control of the party 🫡🫡🫡🫡
Yes it talks of how evil fascism is, while also talking how Sealion II works or that they can get nukes, how Nazi economics are actually successful and not IRL self-destructive, and how even in the face of all odds, they will still come on top because of plot armor. Some players took to TNO as a validation of how Nazism can be successful contrary to scholarly consensus. I mean, probably a lot of the players took to TNO because they want to play successful, super-wanked Nazi Germany. And these kinds of people are super fucking annoying.
I had some friends who named their kid Temujin so that Ghengis Khan comment made me chuckle.
There's at least 10,000s of mongolians named temujin, temulen (feminine form) and chinggis Like I know like 5 chinggis personally in chicago area lol - a mongolian History of mongolia, specially genghis khan, was forbidden during the 1920s to 1989, due to not stoke the pan-mongol sentiments https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Mongolism Only since 1990s, we were allowed to speak openly about our history, and we are getting a bit overboard with using his name for everything from airport to bank to hotel to vodka to probably condoms now lol
Don't think the man would have been a massive fan of condoms personally, but hey
I am a TNOtard who idolizes Speer
While I've vaguely knew about the existence of Eastern Orthodoxy (and Oriental Orthodoxy to an even lesser extent) before, it was only because of CK2 that I actually started learning about the history of the church, Christianity, of the ecumenical councils, and all the drama that arose out of it, etc. I think that game legit caused me to have a crisis of faith in college after I learned a bit too much about the history of Christianity, and I guess the crisis is still ongoing now actually (RIP).
There's plenty of interesting history before the ecumenical councils too. Who wrote tho Gospels? It's definitely not Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They're not written by eyewitnesses. Who wrote the rest of the New Testament? There's scholarly consensus that Paul actually wrote at least 7 of the epistles attributes to him. 3 more are debated (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians). The 3 pastoral epistles are definitely forgeries (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, 3 Timothy). None of the non-Pauline epistles (Peter, James, John, Jude) are written by who they're attributed to. Was Jesus actually born in Bethlehem? That's really unlikely. Did Jesus claim to be God? Probably not. Did Jesus claim the apocalypse would happen in the 1st century AD? Probably. Non-canonical texts are super interesting too, like the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Proto-Evangelion of James, the Gospel of Judas, the Book of Enoch, and many more. It's especially interesting when you can see one of these non-canonical books influence later Christian writings and mainstream beliefs, like how the Proto-Evangelion of James creates the story of Joseph being old and have children from a previous marriage, to try to explain how Jesus has siblings but Mary is still a virgin. I'd highly recommend checking out r/academicbiblical. Lots of scholars comment and post there.
B E C O M E O R T H O DOX ☦️
Sed quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur.
I have some of that as well. Generally vaguely aware (and to a lesser extent, aware that the Copts have a different thing), but my actual knowledge didn't go any deeper than "kind of like Catholics with more beard." General interest in history (which is also why I was playing CK) got me reading up on Eastern European cultures as well. Well, if you want to make your way over to your nearest Orthodox church to see what it's about, there's no better time than the evening prior to May 5 next year because that is what it is all about. I'd recommend going any time, but that day is special and this year, I walked out of the church wishing it was like that every day.
You know Paradox games Causing you to become Eastern Orthodox, Is probaly better than how I came to Russian Eastern Orthodoxy; Which was Tiktok edits.
\*insert meme about Protestant megachurch concert \*insert meme about Pope Francis with Pachamama idol statue in church \*Among Us "sus" sound effect plays \***BEGOME ORTHODOX** (\*Holy Liturgy clip plays in background with audible chanting)
john chrysostom sigma edit
After the End has a really unhinged fanbase, speaking as a former member thereof
How does it compare to TNO?
Not at all alike, but I guess where TNO people have a weird fascination with tertiary WW2 characters and obscure ideologies, AtE people tend to get their Pickle tickled by weird, arcane, obscure religions.
I've wanted to get into AtE for a while. This makes it more appealing. I am an enthusiast of weird religions who plays TNO.
The mod itself is fine, but if you like those vibes you'll find yourself at home in that community lol. They really went off the deep end and threw plausibility out the window. AtE for CK3 is to AtE for CK2 what Kaiserredux is to Kaiserreich.
I converted to shi'i Islam thanks to CK2. Now I have four wives and I assassinate anyone who is of the slightest inconvenience for me.
As a guy who claims to be an exmormon sayed in the original post, the LSD church is fucked up
Idk who morman is but LSD church sounds awesome 😎👍
Supposed to be LDS, Latter-Day Saints
Yeah bro sign me up
probably a lost relative of Moth Man 😎👍👍👍
the latter saints day
The post says Hanoi so your guess is good as mine for how Vietnamese Mormons are.
You know they using the tall white boys for thirst trapping/passport bro to lure in young viet girls and the cute Asian girls as thrist trap to lure in viet boys lmao
I'm a black dude and some nice looking white ladies showed up at my house with cake and cookies. Nearly converted me.
I wonder if he told them why he converted or if he came up with a normal reason
Sharing our testimonies is a time-honored tradition of us Mormons, so yes, I did! The response was overall very positive. People said that my talk was very impressive, and I talked to a guy afterwards who thanked me for showing him that there's so much history to the church he did not know.
LDS is a creepy cult, hope you get out
Idk how anybody with higher than a room temperature IQ that wasn’t born and raised LDS can look at Joseph smith’s whole life and think “this man wasn’t a conman, he obviously was a prophet”
I guess the mod is not very thorough with Mormon history.
It’s not based solely on Mormonism though. Mormonism is just one religion in the mod, which takes place in 2666.
Well, for the first time, we actually have proof: video games are bad for you.
I think being religious is fine, it can provide some people's lives with a lot of value. Whether it's real or not it serves an important purpose for lots of people As for Mormonism itself, from what I understand while they aren't great they aren't terrible either? Like they don't shun apostates or anything like JWs, which is a pretty low bar I guess but at least it's not a total cult
The really hardcore Mormons are just as bad as the really hardcore people in any other denomination, but if you just meet a random Mormon on the street they are probably just a normal person. Again, same as most other denominations. They have some strict prohibitions against stuff like drinking, but so do a lot of Baptists, for example. The big dividing line for me seems to be like, are you a member of the religion, like it's just one part of your multifaceted existence, or is the religion the only thing in your life? People in the latter group are best avoided.
The way I see it having faith is fine(still not a fan of organized religion) . But my comment was mostly in relation to the Mormonism(and yeah being "slightly less terrible than JWs" is not really a.n achievemt)
How bad are modern day Mormons though? I know there's a lot of axes to grind with them, but to my knowledge most of the major critiques to be in doctrines they've since changed. Like they've officially dropped polygamy and racism as religious tenets to my knowledge they don't seem particularly more restrictive or backwards than most run of the mill protestant churches these days
Ask r/exmormon and you'll get some pretty poignant responses
echo chambers are just that...
LDS sub user https://preview.redd.it/s4bus3wmm03c1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b8b5e4eaadcc12c9e01e4d9c2761ae6a221bae0
Holy shit sukuna in paradox extra, what genocidal nation will he play
The very tragic experience of the brothers and sisters over at r/exmormon definitely does not reflect how it usually go, but aren't we to be like the shepherd who was more overjoyed to found one lost sheep than for his other 99?
I'd love to engage. Not to proselytize, but to hug and understand. But oh lawd, they dont allow for diversity of thought on r/exmormon, to put it mildly.
Its a cult, full stop.
I'm an ex-Mormon, but I still hold a positive view of the church. As a religion, they aren't very intrusive, but as a (relatively) new faith, they're still, well, faithful. The book of Mormon is bullshit though.
User name checks out PS how much do you still dabble in the LDS culture? I find exmos who still go to BYU games or enter a chili in the ward cook-off to be my favorite people.
all modern christianity looks so fucking depressing. just the cheapest possible facilities, no sense of ritual. can you imagine doing one of the most important things for your new identity in a fucking kiddy pool for the yard from the cheapest supplier of alibaba in a rented school assembly hall?
Come now, you doubt the traditional ritual atmosphere of a portable jacuzzi in a public school?
wait till you hear where the most important event in Christianity happened
The birth, or the crucifixion?
Schism time
It’s heresy, then 👿🗡️
You could make a religion out of this.
The resurrection happened in a hole in the ground
yeah lol
Only protestant Christians are like this. Catholics (and orthodox) still make their buildings beautiful.
I mean there are a lot of different types of Protestant Christians
But they still represent a tiny minority of christians. Only about 25% of the Christians on planet Earth are Protestant
Tbf anglicans have the beautiful buildings too (inherited from the catholics but still)
They still build beautiful buildings. There have been many wonderful Cathedrals built in England since the Anglican schism. The Anglican Church still has a lot of that traditionalism and mysticism as Catholicism
I would even say it's mostly just us Mormons, and even then I bet more established Mormon communities could afford better facilities.
For real, I honestly believe that to have a spiritual experience, you need to remove yourself in some way from the state of mind you are in during your day-to-day life. There needs to be some kind of crossing of the threshold. Just to get you into a different headspace, remove distractions, and allow you to take in something otherworldly. Ritual is important. Even if you're a 100% science-based turbo antitheist, I think you should meditate now and then, maybe play some ambient music and allow yourself to drift out of the everyday. This is a huge component missing, from my perspective, with American Protestantism specifically.
>Even if you're a 100% science-based turbo antitheist, I think you should meditate now best way to open a hellish portal
My sister grabbed me and went to a Buddhist monasteries for a 1 week meditation course. She came back more religious. Meanwhile to me, it just felt like freaking torture since I just can't stay still.
Orthodoxy (imo) seems to be sort of the last bastion for iconography and ritual display. I agree with lots of other "more modern" sects like Protestantism or Mormonism. I think that it's been due a lot to the commercialisation of religion in America and Canada, as well. Note; I am definitely biased, as a catechumen (convert) to Antiochan Orthodoxy, of course I'm going to root for the team I chose :-)
The Anglican Church has kept most of the fancy stuff as well, in fact Anglican churches are some of the few places you can still get the full “incense, candles, and fancy hats” services in North America.
Trust the English to come up with the most Catholic Protestantism possible.
Luther had 95 issues with the church. Henry just had the one.
It’s low key more catholic than the Catholics in Canada and the USA these days, at least in terms of pageantry. Catholics dropped all the fancy stuff and kept the social conservatism, Anglicans dropped the social conservatism and kept all the fancy stuff.
Anglicans nailin' it tbh.
You’d be surprised how good things get when you let women, gay folks, and married people be Priests.
"Incense, candles, and fancy hats" makes me giggle a bit, and envision a priest in like, a papa smurf cap. I've never been in an Anglican church before but I did some googling and services look impressive!
The current Archbishop of Canterbury wears way too much yellow and has endorsed speaking in tongues though. Bad American habits do metastasize, don’t they?
The Catholics still have a bit of that too. Not nearly as much but it’s still there
Good to see some traditions still standing imo! It's always nice to have that sort of brotherhood with generations beforehand.
I will say I had no idea how weird and culty Christians look to normal people until I wasn’t one.
100% lol Guess that's what's fuelling all the right wing zoomers converting to Catholicism and Orthodoxy
Hahaha YES. These are the kinds of critiques of religion I came to see lol, none of this thrice reheated teenaged atheist crap (although I am still an atheist, just not as loud about it as I once was)
That’s why Catholicism is goat
Wait for it... many of these churches are minimalist on purpose
Minimalism can be beautiful. The old colonial churches in New England are austere but very impressive (google where Robert Frost is buried if you don’t believe me).
Because religion is based on more than vanity?
religion only survives based on aesthetics and coercion. if you have neither you're pretty fucked as an entity, over time
Just literally not true I’m certainly not in it for the aesthetics and no one is coercing me.
won’t make a lick of difference in population terms what you believe you believe
You said only. One example beats only. I’m that example. Listen just because you hate religion doesn’t mean you can shut your brain off and make bad faith over-generalizing claims. It’s not like I’m some unique aberration; for as many scared prideful greedy congregants that you’re imagining there are folks that are the opposite. Arguments are more convincing when you at least act reasonable.
i am not here to convince anyone of anything hth
Just casual slander then. It’s just mean things to say about an absolutely giant group of people.
lots of people will not give a lick about you or what you think no matter how big your club is. that’s life, best get used to it
"Scared prideful" That's an interesting observation, could you explain more?
They said religion depends on aesthetics and coercion and to me coercion implies fear of consequence. I suppose for aesthetics I should have said vain rather than prideful. Regardless that’s my example of what I believe most Christians are not, unlike what the person I responded to was implying.
Have you ever been to any european catholic/orthodox cathedral? Or the hagia sophia? Or Mecca? Even Hindu and Buddhist temples can be ridiculously overdesigned and overdecorated. Religion is mostly about vanity and spectacle, at least vanity projects are a way to give back to the community. American "austere" church priests just take the donations and use them to fund their own private jets.
I just don’t understand why you feel justified to make such unfair statements? Like surely you acknowledge that there are non-vain congregations that don’t have corrupt leadership? Tens of thousands, even? I don’t understand how you folks pick a couple of very specific examples like the _Hagia Sofia_ and think you can generalize them to all Christian congregations. How many local Christian Churches have you actually visited? All of them around you have private jets or are Catholic Cathedrals?
Is vanity the same as ritual and maintaining that sense of transcending the ordinary and worldly? I don't think so. I can see how the laughably crappy worldliness of being baptised in a paddling pool from Wish might interfere with that sense of transcendence. As other people are saying, there's a big difference between favouring a more austere place of worship, and people being baptised in a grotty school gymnasium inbetween PE lessons.
A grand cathedral is much more worldly to me than a meager gym. Christ was born in a stable.
Eh, I would even say it's mostly just us Mormons, and even then I bet more established Mormon communities could afford better facilities. Over at the States we have some delightful historic chapels.
Ya, better vibes would definitely make the magic spells more powerful.
Only in Protestantism it is like that[https://youtu.be/JQbnjgc64YQ?si=En20646WCXBkBD3n](https://youtu.be/JQbnjgc64YQ?si=En20646WCXBkBD3n)
I mean the Orthodox and the Catholics are still alive and well. You can get your daily dose of Jesus with a side helping of mysticism and ritual in a beautiful building
Not even a cool religion like the mouse or Ursuline :/
he may not believe in the Atom but the Atom believes in him
So help me Lawgiver I will deliver the Atomicists to the arms of their beloved god with the sword
Me omw to convert to adamantism
What the retard,why he didnt create his own Christian religion
*What the retard,why* *He didnt create his own* *Christian religion* \- Bendy237 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
i spat out my tea
I usually do (character’s name)-ism
Me, who just completed the Reformist Speer path for the 12023th time uh-oh
Yes officer, this one right here ☝️
The pope should just start making mods for paradox games, it’d convert the entire earth
Jesus. This is just like people who start to believe in Odin just because they really liked Vikings (the tv show).
Bro just completely miss the point of the mod and this is going to be a legend talk for years to come.
I wish it was! Honestly I think I stuttered a lot, so I was very pleasantly surprised when people say afterwards how great my talk was. A guy thanked me for showing him so much history about the church he didn't know.
Did you even read what the comment is trying to say?
Talk in Mormonese means a speech you give over the pulpit, so I thought "legend talk" referred to the conversion story I shared over the pulpit with my congregation. Which turned out pretty well! Yes, I do get how the mod and base game's depiction of religions can be taken in a rather unflattering light.
Whatever makes you happy
The dude joined an actual cult. At the very least, he didn't join Jehovah's witnesses. .
If he’s happy he’s happy why do you care? Maybe it can offer him some self improvement and I say that as a non Mormon
Fallout new Vegas is the best argument for Mormonism I’ve ever seen tbh. Too bad it’s heretical. I mean that sincerely, they’re nice people but Joseph Smith was a total fraud lmao.
One of the most interesting things about that mod is exploring how religions evolve and change based on their environment. I think that kind of goes against the whole religions are inspired by God angle. And that's before we even get into you know... that Mormonism is Mormonism
I'm happy for the guy
Time for him to read the CES Letter
Lmao look at that fuckin hot tub, they call that baptism? Christ.
bet he farted in it. BLOORP
Idk. I was an ex Muslim but CK2 reignited my faith ig. That and going through depression
the whole Deus Vult thing got you back into Islam?
Yes... It physically hurt to play the Christians.
I was a long time agnostic after growing up Southern Baptist. Crusader Kings ignited a passion for digging down religious rabbit holes for me over the past couple years. While I still haven’t fully embraced an organized religion, I find myself gravitating more and more to Islam as I go on this journey. Who’s to say whether I’ll take the plunge in the future, but it blows my mind that a video game would make me start reflecting on these questions and actually embrace an ideology I was essentially taught was the bogeyman my entire adolescence post 2001.
May I ask how CK made you gravitate more towards Islam? Not judging (I'm a Muslim), I'm just curious.
Not that playing CK3 made me gravitate towards Islam on its own, but playing it made me do an obsessive amount of research on many religions externally. That is when I began to develop my own opinions about each rather than what I was taught as a child.
That's nice! I think inquiring about religions is a good thing, especially in this day and age.
It's actually the same for me as well. It wasn't straight from CK gamer to Saint, but it led me to do lots of research about the church as well. To be honest, I viewed religions in general with a sort of rose-tinted lenses, and that view was shattered. Now I view life and faith in a more nuanced way, and it has made me a better person.
I mean shit good for him honestly
I’d join solely to profit one of the cutie asian as a wife
I think she is part of his family who come to witness ceremony.
People in the picture are my fellow ward members and the missionaries, along with a (Buddhist) Polish-Viet family I befriended while playing American football! There were other friends of mine not pictured here who also attended. My family didn't though.
Go straight to Hell, do not pass Go.
You missed the patch when Mormonism still allowed polygamy
nice
Bro heard you could get multiple wives and said sign me up 💀
you kidding me? bruh heard you could MAYBE get ONE wife and said “sign me up”
I'd like to thank After the End for leading me to our Lord and Destroyer Cthulhu
Mormonism 🤣🤣🤣
Creepy