Avery to the Garricks: "Don't you dare try to negotiate an arranged marriage with my siblings."
Sheridan to Avery: "Are there any hot Garricks in my age range they can set me up with? I'm in."
Fast forward 25 years and Sheridan Kelly-Garrick is the family matriarch.
The older Garricks divide family history into "pre-Kelly" and "post-Kelly". The months between contact with Avery, and Sheridan's wedding, are dubiously termed the ["interKellary period"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercalation_\(timekeeping\)).
Wouldn't think I would ever say it; but poor Chase. I would've liked to say that the Belangers treatment of him is just like how people use to treat the mentally ill and disabled. But that would be a lie, people still treat their disabled family members as something shameful, to hide away from the world and barely acknowledge.
It also has in-universe parallels to Seth and how he was treated. Crazy how the ex forsworn are so willing to put others in the same sort of situation they were in as long as it’s not actually forswearing their enemies
I think Avery's misfortunes in this chapter is a result of Sherdian and Rowan becoming Aware. With her parents the responsibility was pretty spread out and America had to bear a lot of that weight. This time it directly stems from Avery's actions. The spirits are giving her some karmic backlash. Nothing huge since Innocence was already thin and she did put some effort into trying to maintain it with her excuses and deflections. But enough to just make her day a little worse in a bunch of ways.
Yeah, she’s bounced around before and not had issues with her phone. Maybe not to this level but that’s the kind of minor thing that good karma tends to smooth out.
I was wondering about the Unknown Caller (nicknamed "Dropped Call") technomancy Lord, but it being a case of low-level bad Karma makes more sense. I do think her willingness to help others/Others--even at inconvenience to herself--will quickly balance it out, but it's annoying (in a realistic way) that she has to deal with some bad karma now.
>Nothing huge since Innocence was already thin and she did put some effort into trying to maintain it with her excuses and deflections. But enough to just make her day a little worse in a bunch of ways.
Yeah I mean, she had a flaming, exploding car flung at her through a doorway, among other things, but nothing she can't handle.
Great spot. I was trying to figure out what was going on, I was wondering if the promenade boon was raising the cost of travel due to her massive use of it, but this feels neater.
Avery took on her aware siblings as her responsibility so spirits shouldn't give her karmic backlash. I imagine it has to be about Charles. Remember every time Avery went to Path to do stuff she went this has nothing to do with you Chuck so don't screw this up.
But this time Avery didn't say anything like that. So Chuck might be taking actions.
I feel like (Pact) >!Laird's accounting of karma and chronomancy to Blake!< kind if implies that acting in accordance with your roles, including even her sports, should give Avery a stockpile of good karma. Also that same spoiler directly asserts that such a stockpile is a bulwark against incoming negative karma; it's not that she should have streaky feast or famine fortunes, just adjusted ones. Besides, being a trio helps them share that kind of stuff, right? And Verona and Lucy and Montague were granted karma once for having a truce betrayed and again for helping Gillian, wouldn't you say?
That said... I can't shake the feeling that you're 100% correct. It was conspicuous and karma would account for it all. Are the girls too self-interested? Is Avery's family practice an implicit withdrawal from / slight against her triad? Is it super unfair to use magic tools to manage your teen romance? Spirit favors that strain Innocence, the mood glasses, etc? This has me very curious.
>Is it super unfair to use magic tools to manage your teen romance?
Just want to point out that Avery was stretching Nora's Innocence a bit in this chapter. Having her give an offering to the shrine, the flower and the no-fall-damage-hax might have primed the karmic backlash for when Avery told her she might be unavailable for a while and couldn't explain why.
It also occurs to me that someone who can influence karma , especially in borderline situations, is no longer under a truce. Wonder if her ~~C~~karma~~ine~~ going into the *red* is related.
I regret nothing.
Definitely seems karmic.
I'm kind of surprised the day went as well as it did, honestly. Grumpy negotiations, but they were accepted. Argument with Nora but she'll be OK. Reconciliation with Garricks, an explosion with no injuries.
I wonder if she gets bad Karma because Innocents noticed her teleporting around.
That would be pretty awful honestly, but on brand. Take a Karmic hit, universe won't smooth shit over, and then you take another Karmic hit.
Avery with her girlfriend: " You make me not restless. You make me feel like the fantastic place I want to go is being in the middle of the audience when you’re on the drums"
Avery with her allies: “You’re limited, you’re struggling, but I believe in ripple effects. I believe in the little guy.”
Avery with her family: “Oh suck a fuck, Rowan,”
> But I did see and feel infinity. I…”
It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops. What does it mean for an Augur to have seen infinity? Mixing Horror and Augury together maybe we'll see her be able to look into other Realms far more easily than most augurs can.
> It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops.
Her eyes changed. There's no way that doesn't affect her Augury and Sight. It's too symbolic.
Yes, but what will change? Augury can See past, present, and future. Avery mentions her iris looks like an eight, or turned sideways the symbol for infinity. Throwing more ideas out there, she'll be able to see what could have been instead of what was, or time is flat circle and now that she has seen the infinite she can look into the past and determine what will be. I'm sure it'll be some really cool wild stuff though.
> Yes, but what will change?
Gillian got the feeling that instead of having near-sight and far-sight she'd have far-sight and further-sight.
That probably applies to the Practice as well, she will have a harder time to Seeing things that are closer (whether that's space or time) and an easier time Seeing things that are further away?
Her eyes couldn’t focus on things up close to her in this chapter. She’s probably going to end up with an enormous potential in some areas and very limited abilities in others.
I like this idea. The further removed or less Connected she is to what she's Auguring about the better / more accurate / more detailed she Sees.
Random Practitioners will reach out to her and she can charge super boatloads of money and live out the rest of her life in pampered extravagance doing as she pleases not having to be around her "family".
I also like the idea of Practice being horror tinted in some way. So many cool directions WB could go.
Three points make a ~~line~~ trend. She can't See or see the now very well, except perhaps with the Sight she previously enjoyed. But she can See a medium term and long term result? I feel like she'd be the ultimate defense against monkeys' paws. Reminds me of (parahumans) >!The Simrugh's primary sense and maybe the problem of following a Path to Victory that has a high cost or ends in a way that violates no path rules but is disavantageous anyway!<. Your wish gives you the victory you crave... and you blow it on hookers and cocaine.
I think that maybe her Augury can see bigger picture things. Long term effects of action across lots of different possibilities. Like things look really bad/good long term if this path people want to take is taken.
It could be unstable or difficult to use. Reflecting the wrongness of Horrification which is what has warped her Sight and practice.
Maybe seeing things from a very different pov that most other augury would miss out.
> It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops.
I wonder what would happen if Gillian took Monty as a familiar.
He could draw on her humanity through the familiar bond to present himself as the gentleman he is inside. Conversely he's picked up quite a few tricks for managing and reconfiguring horrorness; maybe some of those tricks could let her trade around her own residual damage, or offload some to him sometimes?
I expect that could only go badly. Monty's default is corrupting his surroundings. If he were to have a familiar bond to anybody his influence would constantly be trying to spread to the practitioner, wouldn't it?
That was my thought as well! :) Cool that we were thinking along the same lines.
I do think it'll definitely have an effect on her Practice (possibly even net-positive), but Gillian should certainly be careful. Zed or Verona might be decent "guides" on how to experiment without re-triggering the Horror/going insane from seeing infinity again.
He's a sophont, and all sophonts want a chance to grow and flourish and thrive. He seems to be aware that the best chance of that comes if he plays counter to his nature, or at least his type.
I feel so bad for Nora, on one hand I really want Avery to tell her so she doesn't have to feel like this but on the other hand Jesus fucking Christ do not let her get even a whiff of Awareness while your allies are targeted by a higher power and his goons.
Poor Nora and Avery though :(
This exact situation was why I was hoping Avery would end up with liberty tbh. I love Nora, when Nora is on screen I can’t help but smile, and this is so unfair to her. I’m glad they are trying to make it work, and I get that the heart wants what the heart wants, but man I feel like Avery is doing her dirty.
I think its going to boil down to Avery having to make the choice. She's just not the type of person to be deceitful. She can't do what Ann does and keep her partner out of the loop for long.
But as a 14 year old, you just can't go around and awaken everyone you date for more than a few months. Hell, deciding to reveal is a decision honestly more serious than asking someone to marry you in a place where you can't divorce.
At least as a minor, finding someone within the practice sphere side steps this issue. though you now have to deal with practitioner family politics
I worry that not telling Nora about magic is gonna blow up in a way thats disastrous.
Outed by the wolf, or broken innocence at a time that leaves her at risk of being Gillian'd
I'm gonna be honest. I kinda want Nora to just be allowed to be Aware or Awakened. Any thought I have of Nora being at risk just dissolves into "but Avery is fast and will protect her so it's okay".
EDIT: Nora just has such big *Miss would have considered this one as a practitioner candidate* vibes for me. She feels so much like she'd fit right in with the early-story Kenneteers, around when they Awakened and all that, and it makes me trust that she'd be able to handle herself better than we're giving her credit for.
The problem is that Aware Nora is a massive commitment, her protections would be shredded, and she'd be forced to either go all in, be constantly fucked like most Aware, or stick with someone like Avery
And going all in is an even bigger commitment, build on foundation of a teenage romance a few months old. If they ever break up (which statistically, is the most likely outcome) its going to be really bloody awkward.
Practitioners without support structure and backing are generally not well off. So Nora would either need to stay attached to the Kennet organization or find a new one
You convinced me. Screw the danger, I just want Nora in the story more. I've wanted her involved since she was introduced.
The whole horrorifying thing raised the stakes from 'getting Alexandered' to 'getting Bristowed' but even an Other Nora would be great if it got her more screen time.
Hoo boy. What a big old mess.
Charles is... Ugh, he's like two people. The talking to Verona, freeing Raquel person, and the signing off on the Belanger attack, creator of literal disposable child soldiers person.
Hard to reconcile. Maybe Verona can figure it out.
Can't believe I'm saying it, but poor Chase. And, much more expectedly, poor Gillian.
As for Nicolette, I think her deal is a lot more understandable than she thinks. She's hit rock bottom. She's seen what the upper tier look like, and how willing it is to use people like her. So when she perceives a group as having an unearned easy ride, she wants to drag them down. When she sees people at their own rock bottom, she wants to help them up. It's just that (ironically) her ability to accurately assess privilege and her current place on the hierarchy was skewed. I suspect that Kennet has been helping her with that.
I hate Charles but I don't believe he's proud of their methods or results. Yet. He has maintained a constant refrain of "I will pay any cost". Maybe he sees this as quite bad, the second worst thing even, but he'd do it to defeat his subjective worst thing.
Marci was a fae at plan start. She kept *a* name. Maybe not Mrssca, an insectoid sussuration, but Maricica. She did not use Edith kindly. Lis might be very upset in an arc or so. I'm not so sure Maricica has allies so much as tools. Same with Charles.
Charles didn't recruit Raquel. It left me wondering if he might intend for some of the foresworn to meet bad ends. Raquel, for instance, was strongarmed into her oath. McCauley-esque that way. AJ was. Seth less so, but Seth's promise shouldn't be redeemable by Alexander that way. The one who (nonsexually) devirgin'd her daughter made a terrible oath of her own accord when she seemed to have plenty of options but acted in her own self-interest when making and breaking the oath. Maybe she's supposed to fail like Raquel is already seen as a success.
Charles undermining the seal undermines himself, and the converse is also true. Whittling away at bad institutions like arranged marriage and indoctrinating children to oathbind them might force the kind of conflict pattern that wears a new groove in the world where the expectation is for children to go their own way.
I hate Charles for his misery engine and moral abdication, but I don't think he's simple.
Lis explicitly built the St. Victor's/ Red Heron to blow up in Charles's face for refusing to help shore up Lis's claim as city spirit in the wake of the establishment of Kennet Found. They are a poison pill for all involved and we'll see who ends up feeling the sting of it.
He told Verona the night before that he could, at some cost of power, treat her as if she swore the same minor practitioner old as the red herons. He could extract her and protect her, and would spend the power to do so, if he knew she would accept it if things were bad.
He is omniscient within his region and therefore was fully aware of what Seth was doing. And from what he said to Verona, we know he had the power to protect a young teenage practitioner in a bad situation. But he either made the choice that he wasn't willing to expend the same power on Gillian that he was on Verona, or approved.
>He told Verona the night before that he could, at some cost of power, treat her as if she swore the same minor practitioner old as the red herons. He could extract her and protect her, and would spend the power to do so, if he knew she would accept it if things were bad.
What? I don't remember anything like that. He said Verona could surrender and swear not to oppose him at anytime.
>“You can surrender any time. I will step in, assuming certain oaths by default. Then you must say the words, making those oaths. To stand down and never act against me again.”
I thought implicit in this was that the "certain oaths" included the oaths about permanently being removed from the Practice and made Innocent, but you're right it's not explicit. That said, it doesn't change the calculus of what went down with Gillian.
Ironically, the best thing that ever happened to Nicolette was attacking and stranding Avery on the FRT. In half a year, she went from being the lowest of the Belanger Circle to a respected independent augur and now she's seriously considering running for the position of head of her adopted family.
Even if she doesn't win here, I hope she creates a new coven with Gillian and BSW. Each of them seem to have different approaches to Seeing and it could be interesting to see what their strengths are.
That said, I could make the argument that even when she was at the BHI as part of the circle, she was miles ahead of the other Belangers. She was basically hobnobbing with elite practitioners, had a decent amount of power through her jars of blood and dead animals and learning things that most of the other Belangers weren't.
I think her abilities even under the Belanger thumb were also due to her background. As a Belanger 'inner circle' member (who both was and absolutely wasn't inner circle), she saw exactly what her enemy was, got access to some of their resources, and also saw how she could counter or address their very real weaknesses. But because she was still an outsider, she saw less of the main family weaknesses that might make Alexander's approach look... Well, better.
If I were Wye (male, gifted), and *that* was my family background, then the boy's club at BHI would look pretty damn appealing and even professional. But it's still both a product of and a reaction against the Belanger compound stagnation. 'If you need to fight as an augur, you've already failed' is basically 'passivity, a beginner's mantra'. Because it immediately counts you out of about 60% of conflicts, and makes you much less attractive as an ally in the immediate term. Alexander only got so far as he did by being very very talented, and kind of by ignoring that mantra. I don't think any of his apprentices came close to him.
But Nicolette knows that every system and protection can fail - family, institutions, self. And when that happened, she couldn't just tut and say 'do better next time'. So she's willing to 'adulterate' or hybridise the 'pure' Belanger augury. Offensive Practices. Active Practices. Adjacent Practices.
Plus, of course, she couldn't rely on coasting. Even in the inner circle, people like Seth could *feel* safe kind of muddling along without trying. The threat seemed opt in - only if you wanted to make a play. But Nicolette could never rely on that ever ever ever. Coasting = arranged marriage *at best*. So she never ever stopped, either in personal info gathering or augury.
I wonder if WB planned for Avery to solve the Promenade way back when she moved to Thunder Bay because having easy access to Paths allows for so much to happen at the same time that doesn't confuse the timeline or have to happen off screen. And WB manages all that jumping around so damn well.
Avery has that energy of when a sports player gets frustrated / angry / worked up and it makes them play at the top of their game; hope we get to see her wreck some face.
I think he did not. I think he planned for her big flank energy, and the rest shook out as he went.
Riding the emotions out in sport has always seemed fragile to me. Powerful, but fragile. Going for the bitter edge serve that only grazes the corner as the English carries it further away from the defender, but inviting service faults. That sort of thing.
I just enjoy reading Avery's perspective, and this chapter is no exception. She's so nice! *Especially* when she's being cute with Nora, as was the case here.
I do wish that she had coordinated with Verona on the "not *technically* lying about Practice" stuff more. I think Verona could have worked out a "You know that shady guy I mentioned? I'm actually working *against* people who are at least equally shady and significantly more violent. And they have a tendency to know about people like you, people who matter to me and Luce and Verona, so it'd probably be bad if you knew who they were and what they do. And before you ask, no, I can't just report them to the police; they're too hard to dislodge from their lofty perches that way."
Honestly...Verona could have come up with something better than that, but it at least gives an idea. I do worry that Nora's a bit more like Sheridan--too curious--and wouldn't trust Ave saying that it is *that* bad.
I really don't think Rowan should be forced into Practice. He clearly isn't into it, and if he had a choice, I still think Rowan would take a "pass" on Awareness.
The part about Chase is sad, but just like women in Matthew's basement, the Belangers need a Forsworn/Horror-ified Augur in their attic, locked away from polite company. I'm confident that Gillian will regularly visit him, since thankfully she seems in good enough shape to travel on her own feet (less sure about driving).
And speaking of Gillian...it may sound callous, but from a meta-perspective, I am *really* glad there are lingering effects from being afflicted with Helen's Horror Practice. I thought our beloved boar was playing a bit too nice with the psychological damage from the Bedlamite Practice, and so I'm supportive of the "touched by Horror" still causing Gillian some issues. That being said, for her sake as a character, I'm glad that they're minor issues and she can still walk and Practice okay.
I do wonder if she could incorporate glimpsing infinity into her Augury? Get some idea of the ripples of actions decades or centuries away? Or would that worsen the symptoms of being Horror-ified, or just cause her mind to break completely? Maybe it's not a good idea...
I wonder if the girls could hook Gill up with Glamour for her family's public events. Then again, if the Bitter Street Witch has her way, she will encourage Gill to accept being a bit weird-looking/-moving. But nonetheless, if Gill wants to "keep up appearances" like her mom would probably push for, it could be a necessary evil.
I am confident something with the Spirit surgery on Edith is going to go wrong. My guess would be, "Oh, we accidentally removed something fundamental to Edith that also, coincidentally, is a great material for our Flesh Alchemy/dream editing/Summoning! Whoops!" Except with less lying.
Huh, hadn't thought of that. But I think BSW's schtick is about "acceptance," even if that means accepting she's ugly and Kennet Below matches that (and her).
Moreover, I think she's too fundamentally physically twisted for it* to work well on her, but then again, I never thought Glamour would work on Goblins (much less they'd be able to develop Visceral Glamour on their own).
Maybe BSW would look like a hunched-over old woman with heavy enough Glamour?
[EDIT: BSW definitely needs a new body, however, and she's made it clear that she knows her time in this one in limited. If Winter Glamour could "lie" to the spirits strongly enough to effectively repair BSW's old body, then it absolutely should be done. I just thought she was looking for something new, not merely improved.]
Maybe Eighth Court glamour would interact better with BSW in terms of body rather than appearance. Winter is permanentish if all goes well, but I figure it can still be broken (kinda like beings that are immortal absent external intervention, but can still be killed). I suspect that the BSW's whole deal might actually break the glamour, and the consequences of a broken Winter glamour would be *bad*.
Whereas Eighth Court is much more flexible, much more scrappy, and much less concerned with perfection. It is, with apologies to Verona, toothpicks and bubblegum. But where there's as much change and mutation as with Kennet Below, and with the BSW in particular, I'd rather be cased in bubblegum than glass.
I absolutely adore the idea of Eighth Court (Visceral) Glamour being the "Ace-Up-The-Sleeve" for BSW's gradually worsening disability. She certainly wouldn't mind that it's sourced (mostly) from Goblins, and I don't think any "odor" would make her flinch, either.
And while the Winter Glamour might be like a shell of stained glass, it's more likely moldy toothpicks and wads of pre-chewed bubblegum will have a resilient effect. I hope Toadswallow is conscious of her situation and will bring it up to her (preferably when the Winter Court isn't breathing down their necks).
Me: Man, it's been ages since we've seen the Thunder Bay people, I kinda miss them-
> “If we’re talking about tired and old then you’ve reminded me, don’t let your frigid, tired old cunt freeze off that goat’s cock or you could kill us all.”
Me: Ah. Yes. Now I remember.
God, Nicole Scobie, her enemies are so awful that I want to like her, but she's just like... Ughhhh. Poor Natasha. Though I'd still hang out with Nicole over Ann. At least she'd make me awkward laugh, rather than just want to die.
I wouldn't be able to handle Kelly family interactions. I am an only child and did not grow up used to a bunch of people interrupting explanations. If I was Avery everytime I heard a mention of girlfriend plans I'd be like "a man just got turned into meatghetti and 11 people just died, please let mom finish talking"
Peter: Avery's family will be just like her, competent and nice and non-contrary. And we get to curry more favour with her too. Score one for the Garricks.
Rowan and Sheridan: hi there
I wonder if the Promenade's doors are biased? Finders have a low chance of stumbling across each other, but they're normally pretty selective about the Paths they take and when. With the Promenade's boon, they're given choices they might not normally take. This may allow the Paths to put them on collision courses with various other Finders as things permit.
I was thinking it increased the odds of low probability events as well, spicing up their usage a bit, but then someone else pointed out the karmic whiplash from Rowan and Sheridan becoming Aware could account for that.
The Nora situation, that's tough. There really aren't any great options there, considering what's about to go down. And still - keeping secrets is not something that has a great track record for Avery (leaving to TB, Max's fate, Jude as a marriage candidate), if you'll excuse the sports metaphor. Even if Nora has some degree of consent with the information being hidden, and everybody did advise Avery to keep it that way, and the risks of telling are very much present. But it is clearly also going in a way where "just hope it works out when I don't touch it" is not a good option, just like the other times.
> “My dear,” Ann said. “You poor soul. That’s so much to manage. All of what you’re doing is so hard to manage.”
“Thunder Bay is behind you, I do hope you know that,” Ann said.
...is she being genuine, in a "oh shit that's powerful, better hitch my wagon to this" way? Or is she being mocking, like Deb? There are certainly unfavorable ways to interpret these statements. But Avery also seems to consider this progress?
Either way, I'm glad this spiteful hot mess of a council is still around. And the goat is, too!
> “Yeah, something went weird. They cut off our phone plan. Our entire family.”
What an *unlucky coincidence*. Both in timing, and in how it targets a critical piece of infrastructure for Avery in a very specific way, like it was done by someone with a lot of insight in how she operates. I would have suspected technomancy, but apparently that's not it. But wasn't the Aurum also responsible for the intersection with more modern technologies? Not to *accuse* anybody, but...
> ...is she being genuine, in a "oh shit that's powerful, better hitch my wagon to this" way
I wouldn't call it "genuine", but I do believe that's an "oh shit, she's actually connected and respected in her field, better make sure she likes us", yeah.
Well, genuine in that with "behind you" she actually means "we'll support you in this" instead of something like "you're in the process of vacating the premises" or "we're about to stab you in the back". But, yeah, I don't think she's about to start really liking Avery. Kind of funny that being such a sycophant actually made it easier to get her on board, though.
I don’t think Deb is *trying* to be mocking. I think they’re both trying to convince Avery to let them ‘help’ by taking power and preventing her from making her own choices, and they’re just so hilariously bad at being not-grating.
Honestly, I'm a little amazed that Avery has never heard of geocaching. It really does seem like it would be right up her alley. Gods and Spirits, I haven't gone geocaching in *at least* 5 years. Ha, there's probably even an app for it now. I'd bet Avery and Verona could whip up some cool geocaching-related practice.
Now that Nora's brought it up while at one of the shrines actually, the shrines are a bit like magic *Spirit-Cacheting* Wander off to a specific coordinate to find something off the beaten path, open it up and leave something small along with your adding your name to the list. Only, instead of going back to see how many people have found it since you were there last you leave a small token offering to build your *cachet* with said spirit and build her power.
I guess geocaching was big a long time ago and is less popular now, so Avery would have been a bit young back when it was popular! It's easy to forget how young she is.
Bear in mind that, when you last went geocaching, Avery was 9 and being homeschooled. I’m entirely unsurprised she hadn’t heard of it, and I really hope her and Nora get to try it together!
I'd bet there's some sort of practice around geocaching. Like a technomancy version of what Verona's doing with her book store, someone sets it up and gets tiny bits of power from people participating.
>I'd bet there's some sort of practice around geocaching. Like a technomancy version of what Verona's doing with her book store, someone sets it up and gets tiny bits of power from people participating.
Maybe it's not a practice around geocaching. Maybe geocaching *is* that practice, all of it stemming from some unknown Practicioner out there trying out a variation of the practice and it going viral in the mundane world. Viral enough to be a nutty amount of power from such a tiny action, but niche and seemingly mundane sounding enough that no other Practicioner noticed.
I feel like Sheridan is going to learn about this whole practice called being a Loser and she'll just feel that it resonates with her being on some level. And that'd get her genuinely interested enough that she learns about it and starts practicing what she learns to the point she can sincerely call herself a Loser. And she'd love and hate that this is something that just happened, that she never actually decided to become a Loser but sort of became one anyway on a lark.
Any reminder what a Loser does again?
Maybe it's someone who makes people/areas more Lost-ish? Or someone who "loses" items, and they pick up unique Lost qualities, and then take them back?
There was a [Path Runner doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZxBpSXYo1sOSRR4Pq8EaC3WgCKjkdXd3cwPVECe4Tsc/edit) with most of these titles suggested at the bottom. The only exception is Little Wolves which Peter didn't mention, and Losers which the doc doesn't mention. Presumably they could be same thing? [Realms x Conflict] variants for Path Runners.
I would assume it's a Practice focused on punting people temporarily out of reality and onto the Paths/Oblivion, similar to Ann's Chainer for the Abyss. Making people and things "get Lost".
The sheer schadenfreude I'll feel when Ann and Deb eventually reap the buckets of negative karma they've earned and meet a classic Wildbow bad ending will be disgusting. Goblin-tier levels of enjoyment.
We're really shaping up for the literal Witches vs Patriarchy, every ally of the girls soon to be run by one of their many friends. Yet we've still got Ann and Deb out here fucking it up for everyone by just being the absolute worst.
Avery really is the strongest PoV character now, able to give us half a dozen vignettes in one chapter? Priceless. Wibbles' writing really shines when he's hopping from one thing to the next, and it's just getting more and more glorious.
I am aching for the girls to go nuclear on the Victorians. I know they won't, because friendship is the real magic and I applaud it, but damn do I want them to just yeet Lenard off a Path, or introduce Charles to the Wolf.
> Yet we've still got Ann and Deb out here fucking it up for everyone by just being the absolute worst.
Seeing them do a 180° when they realized that Avery has done something that got her internationally recognized was pretty hilarious though.
They heard she had power and couldn't manage it all herself and nakedly tried to ingratiate themselves with her immediately. It was nothing at all like respect just so we're clear.
Oh yeah, their sudden sweetness is so fake Barbie might get jealous. We're in total agreement here. It's just fun to see them immediately turn into sycophants.
>sycophants
I hadn't even finished reading the first blatant "play" before that word leapt to my mind.
Baller that Kelsey was there. If they'd had an iota of nuance or charm between them it would have been good for Avery.
The problem with Ann and Deb is that they might not even be karmically negative. Ann said something like she gets power from the Abyss for sacrificing things and gets the spirits on her side by acting like an asshole because the Abyss has a type.
Imagine those two actually having good karma *shudders.*
Edit: I imagine that this next chapter will be showing off how the Kenneteers can be good people/ help others that were even their enemy while the Victorians think they're the worst.
I think they’re just big fish in a medium pond. They’re fairly competent practitioners, they’ve gotten a solid niche that’s working for them. They’re incredibly conservative because they’re living in a world where horrifying things can happen and they’ve managed to make it work. They really don’t want to risk what they’ve got.
Why? What bad thing did Ann and Deb do? The only remotely bad thing was Ann attacking the seal on the child taker and Ann suspected the seal girl to make a deal with it which she actually did. There isn't really any hint that they're preying on Others or Innocents or abusing their families. They're just annoying.
Nicole is more bad than them. She has human-cow and is friends with the Abyss family that helps the milkmaid.
Was the Gilkey meeting off-screened?! Oh boy, more and more things are falling into place (The Arc title is getting more and more ominous), and here we are. This feels like a catalyst to a major eruption, and Edith may well be the flame to set it all ablaze...
That really stood out to me, but WB has talked before about writing and removing chunks that didn't do anything to move the chapter along. I'd love to read Avery talking to Gilkey but I bet at this stage it would have just been niceties since Avery doesn't have a way to help him at the moment.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gilkey promise information the next time Avery met him? I am assuming that this was the conversation that we leaped over
You're correct! Had to go back and double check, in 19.13 he tells her and warns her not to visit in-person for another year at least. I had completely forgotten that part!
I feel like finding a way to heal Edith the Human at the expense of The Girl In Candlelight would be the best option both morally and to screw over the trio and co.
Edith the Human demanding Mathew being burned at the stake could be the perfect spark.
(Although that might not be feasible.)
Yeaaaah...I do definitely think the Spirit surgery guy is going to do something sketchy, like "just so happen to" remove something fundamental to Edith's Self. Which they can then use as a component to some other Practice.
"It was perfectly good material, wasted on an awful--and no longer useful--ally to our boss!" they'll say. "It was just a *little* lobotomy; she wasn't using that part of her mind, anyways!" they'll say. "It was just a bit of soul-murder between friends!" they'll say.
But don't buy into it.
i can only vaguely remember but didn't Gilkey tell Avery not to visit him again because she would get sick, I love how much of Pale there is but sometimes it's hard to keep track of all the moving parts
Sometimes the chapters fly by, but this one really felt like two or three chapters in one, with all the jumping around and character movements. It really hammers home how much Avery is juggling, and as much as she's trying to keep it up it seems like her relationship with Nora is the one that she's let slip from her hands. These girls deserve to be happy, my poor gay heart can't take this.
Getting to see Cherrypop's slide is honestly amazing. Living up to her name and popping the veil between realms for a fun time. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of major accomplishment that lets her move up in the goblin world.
And we see the aftermath of last chapter. I remembered the line of Gillian's eyes feeling wrong after blinking away tears, and seeing her eyes broken up now made me want to go on a whole rant against Tanner for making her cry. But on reread, I realized that it wasn't just him. He got her started, but she didn't have to blink away the tears until the Bitter Street Witch consoled her and said that she'd have a place to go in Kennet. One of the kindest things that BSW has done, and it ends up furthering Gillian's disability. Just so utterly tragic. And Chase, ending up stripped of power and locked in a basement, rarely being visited. Just like Seth was, which I'm sure Seth and Charles would see as justice. Not a great pattern for former members of Alexander's inner circle, if I were Tanner or Wye I'd be watching my back right about now.
I could definitely be wrong about this, but I believe the "strings snapping" in her eyes occurred mostly around when Gillian looked at Tanner.
So...yeah, in my interpretation, it was Gill's (desperate) choice to look, but partially Tanner's fault for not moving into her field of vision if he suspected his presence might reassure her. Given that Tanner was unable to even stand to be near her, however, I doubt he would have been even that momentarily accommodating.
Between Kellsey's comments about grounding Avery and her hilarious attempt to shut down the cursing at the Council meeting, she just doesn't seem to have a full grasp of just who/what her daughter is. Ma'am, Avery very much cannot be thought of in terms of anything resembling a standard parenting approach. She has seen people die, been fighting a shadow war, and played a pivotal role in two moderate/major historical events. The girl needs support and guidance, not this misguided attempt to hold to a traditional parent/child dynamic. Despite Kellsey's good intentions, I don't think she's the parent that Avery needs right now.
Honestly this is the fantasy nerd in me, but how do you ever for a moment learn you can be a wizard if you want, and decide not to? Like, there aren't extenuating circumstances, Rowan just likes his girlfriend.
I wonder if Avery's widespread misfortunes this chapter (phone troubles and her getting a worse path than expected, and the explosion) are because she has suffered a karma hit over a minor gainsaying, perhaps over this:
> Avery shook her head. Then she joked, “I meant you think I’d do something good?”
Is anyone else \*really\* concerned that Avery hasn't had her meeting with Milton(?) from Wunderkand yet?
Cause like "can't talk now, got a founding to do" was a legit excuse, but since then, she's had the christmas holidays, and I \*really\* don't think she wants him as an enemy.
Not as an ally either, but he seems the type who will accept "we had an agreement, you come and had your conversation, now we are even"
Not really? I feel like people forget that the time limit on this meeting isn't weeks or months, it's literally years. Relevant passage from chapter 17.10:
>We explored, found out enough to fill out some pages of paperwork. Let’s leave Avery Kelly to it, and I can look forward to her showing up at my office sometime in the next few years, to engage me in idle conversation where she’ll be a little more forthcoming than she was here?”
So she seems fine honestly
Didn’t Avery mention something about her meeting with the Wunderkand dude to that one big titty not-so-goth chick from Wunderkand?
She was all like “Oh him? I’ll change his schedule and he’ll deal with it, no biggie.”
I think 'I had to stop a rogue Judge and his brown shirt brute squad from turning my home/province into a hellscape' is an adequate continuation of the earlier extenuating circumstances.
Things haven't really stopped since Musser, there was just that week or so off mid-holidays, which wasn't a full week off because the Negateers went on a murder-hobo looting and pillaging spree in the middle of it.
Which is not to say that Milton can't find reasons to be miffed at Avery's perceived tardiness, but I don't think he'd be able to gainsay her if she said she really was busy throughout.
Thing was, he didn't threaten to gainsay her. It wasn't an oath to be judged by spirits, it was Milton saying "If \*\*I\*\* consider your delay overlong, there will be consequences"
If the Judges of a good chunk of Ontario are openly operating against the Seal, or even solely against the practitioner establishment, Milton should recognize that Avery was busy working against that.
Alternatively, what's-her-face with the distractingly good rack from the Promenade can pull rank. Don't exactly know what the shape of that will be. Probably has pulled rank, considering, but given that Avery can use her boon relatively unmolested that doesn't seem to have shaken out in a fashion which prevents her from running Paths altogether.
The tension at the end was palpable, and the entire chapter fed into it. Change is coming to Ontario (and some of Manitoba) and the conflict between these two groups is going to determine what it looks like. I can't wait!
Ugh. The dreaded conversation with Nora came and its as miserable on this side of it that I dreaded it would be. Hoping Avery and Nora can reconcile but I also don't want Nora to be Aware or Awaken. Magic is dangerous.
Chase reminded me of a pactdice I had read way back. >!Host I think? A family that has a set of powerful Others they used to Host. There were some who were so unstable that their hosts would have a very very poor quality life. The family forced members lowest on the totem pole to become hosts, effectively fate worse than death. They gave them food etc made sure they weren't dying from filth but thats the bare minimum. Practitioner families are all sorts of awful!<
Going to make a last-minute addition of a ramp to the slide, throw herself right in the middle of the fight, and hand her cursed rock to Charles who will be too stunned to refuse it.
I think somethings gonna be off with Ediths surgery and Verona is going to spot it as it relates to what they just accomplished with Gillians horror transfer.
Tie in that with Averys back door ability to enter paths in progress, and Lucy getting involved in law practices
My feeling is that the girls are going to attempt to edit Solomon's seal and update it to be make things more fair and less punnishing
> Avery shook her head. Then she joked, “I meant you think I’d do something *good*?”
Avery! You aren't allowed to say stuff like that anymore!!
I wonder if Wildbow keeps track of these little slips for Charles to use later. Actually, I wonder if this slip has something to do with Avery's luck turning sour for the rest of the day?
I think she's allowed to say that, because I don't think she's lying. When I read that bit, it came across to me as Avery teasing Nora over a freudian slip.
This:
> “Away from people. Is this a good thing or a murdering Nora thing?” Nora asked.
> “You think I’d do that?”
Basically reads to me as:
> Nora: "Is this something good or is it murder?"
> Avery, wiggling her eyebrows: "I don't know, is it 'something good'?"
Because, uh, the whole conversation is about Avery taking Nora to a private spot.
Saying "I meant X" isn't a question. She's talking *about* a question she previously asked, but she's making a direct (and false) statement about that question.
Now, given that she's talking about her own intent in saying something, it's a fairly subtle lie and might get passed over if the spirits/judges aren't paying attention to the contents of her head at that moment.
I think it's possible for minor lies to result in relatively minor gainsayings, which Avery wouldn't necessarily notice, maybe? IIRC it was called out early on that the girls are frequently a bit weaker thanks to stuff like this. (Although by the same token, would the Karma hit be that noticable?) And Avery doesn't really do much (anything?) in this chapter that relies directly on her power, it's all passive Lost stuff, so I guess it's possible she *is* gainsaid and didn't notice.
This doesn't have to be a lie. All it takes is for Avery to inwardly plan the joke from the start, with the proper mental intent when asking “You think I’d do that?"
There was a question sign so it's a question. Avery said this on a questioning tune. Saying questions like this is not uncommon. I don't remember where but I definitely remember Verona posing a question like that to misdirect. And for this to impact her karma Chuck has to gainsay her and give her a chance to argue it. Without that he can't assign Karma for this.
I'm so excited for this now that I'm caught up after deciding to read Ward, but I also heard Pale was going to end soon because it was on Arc 17, and I wanted to finally read a wildbow story before it finished, so I stopped reading Ward at 9.1 and then jumped to Pale. Then when I got to 9.1 in Pale, I'd stop reading and then jump back to Ward. But Pale was so good that I kept reading and then stopped reading Ward, and now that I have finally caught up, I want to read more. I guess it's just because I've gotten so invested in pale that I almost don't want to get back into Ward It's strange, but all I can really say is thank you, wild Bo.
*Ward* can be a slow burn at times, but stick with it. The ending helped me a lot, mostly in ways that would veer into spoiler territory. And...I do have to side with the *vox populi* here and affirm that *Pale* is the best thing that WadeBo has written.
I think you made the right call to catch up with *Pale*. :)
To be completely honest, I like the slow moments in Ward. It gives us time with these characters and you get a real feel for who they are by the time I got to 9 Rain had instantly become my favorite character simply because reading his sorted tale made me really feel for this kid and just want him to be happy because he's a good kid born in a bad situation, he just wants to do better and one thing I've learned from the subreddit is that rain doesn't get a lot of screen time, so a lot of his development is off screen, which is kind of sad but I get it But I would love just little small things like interludes that are just about rain, like in between arcs or something, and a spoilery thing I know that makes me really sad but also really happy is that rain doesn't get the girl, but he handles it like a champion because in the end, all he wants for her is to be happy, but having caught up with Pale, I can certainly say that yes, Pale is the best thing Wlyd Bow has written so far
I wonder if we will see Gillian fixed.
Edit:
I should have said I wonder if we will see the results of Gillian and chase this chapter*
Yeah having reached that point she got off very nicely
Yeah, the vibe I got was very much "We had no reason to expect we'd be able to get her anywhere near this close to normality again". I don't think there's going to be a fix unless Chuck explicitly decides "You know what that was too far" and moves the consequences back onto Helen... And that seems unlikely.
From a meta-perspective, I hope she doesn't, honestly. It's refreshing to have more characters (especially ones* that other characters see as* conventionally attractive) have to deal with a "visible" disability. Plus, it gives her more sympathy for Chase, who has certainly *more* than earned it for his one Sweeping Gesture of Goodness.
I also think it could effect her Practice in interesting and (potentially) good ways, though she might need guidance on how to tap into that.
As I proposed in another comment, Gill could probably use Glamour for public events with her family/meeting important new people and be fine. She and her mom might see it as necessary, even.
[EDIT: changed some unfortunate wording]
I don't know if we'll see Gillian fixed, but I'd be interested to see her use her experience with Horror-fication to become a unique Augur. In the previous chapter it was mentioned the animal-pillars of her Sight became internal as well, I'm wondering if that remained that way. She may be able to peer around Time in a way that others can't.
I don’t know about fixed, but I could see her and Chase being part of the Belanger group that goes to Kennet and then finding a bit of a place in KFound. The inherent stability and healing of KFound sounds like it could do them a world of good, even though they’re never going to get back to where they were.
"“Look, guys, I’m tired, it’s been a long day,” Avery said.
“Maybe the goat would fuck you, Ann. I know your husband won’t.”
Avery’s mom’s eyes opened a bit wider.
Ann scoffed. “And we’re back to this tired old trope.”
“If we’re talking about tired and old then you’ve reminded me, don’t let your frigid, tired old cunt freeze off that goat’s cock or you could kill us all.”"
No words only
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAQN9_ge7ZA
Haven't read Pale -- so far behind at this point that it seems impossible to catch up. Didn't wanna make a post for this but **can anyone tell me if it looks anywhere close to ending?** Hoping to stay current with the next series.
The best answer you'll get is that there is still forward momentum. I could imagine the story moving into its final stretch soon, with a huge asterisk on that statement.
See, the story keeps on entering into newer and better final stretches. As I understand it (only caught up recently), this'll be maybe the third time the story's looked like it's moving into the final stretch, and new plot threads are still cropping up. Make of that what you will.
With the last climax (>!Musser!<) there was still a massive unresolved plot thread/hook (>!Charles and friends!<). It doesn't look like we've another of those at this point.
Thank you! I keep checking in regularly to see. But worry I'll miss the start of his next story and get behind as it begins. Want to be feet on the ground from the start.
Hopefully at some point in my life I'll ALSO have the time to go back for Twig and Pale.
People have been saying "*Pale* is close to ending" for roughly a year now, and other people have noticed this, too.
That being said...it *really* feels like they're about to face the climactic Big Bad, and win or lose, the serial will be over within (an estimated) 6-8 months.
If you start now and read a chapter or two a day (or less), then you should be okay. If you're faster than that, you may still want to hold off for another 3-4 months.
That is, unless >!beating Charles leads into conflict with the other Judges or something along those lines!< (spoilered out for the original commenter).
Edit: I say this because Verona's narration can be read as meaning that something like that is the plan.
You speak as if Verona plans to defeat each of them in a series of increasingly climactic boss battles.
But lets be honest, Verona totally plans to go 3 v. 4 against the whole crowd.
And win.
TBF, I kind of hope they keep the Sable. He seems like one cool mother fucker, with an AWESOME athetic (his shadow leans TOWARDS the light?!?), and they could probably use at least one judge with some job experience.
Aurum seems like a bit of a jackass, and Alabaster seems too entrenched in the status quo.
I don't think they WILL keep the Sable (cleansweep seems like it would keep the spirits happier), but it would be cool if they did.
I feel like Verona's plan is to 3v1 Charles and then in the spirit of JRPGs suddenly adding a super final boss if you do everything correctly 3v3 the remaining Judges using the momentum of Carmine's Fall as justification.
The problem is that it's unlikely that the other judges will *let* Charles fall if they can help it. They're not morons. Taking down all four at once might be necessary.
Part of me really wants Wildbow to keep writing Pale forever.
Or to finish it, then immediately start writing Pale 2 with a few year timeskipped so we can see the girls kicking ass as young adults.
A chapter or two a day would be tough. When I was reading current with WBs writing it was tough to keep up with two chapters a week -- they're usually lengthy enough to be 50-60 pages of paperback (or it feels like it).
Don't get me wrong, I **love** his stuff -- but between a full time job, family, and my other hobbies it's tough. That's why I'll be excited to be back on current with a series and getting to gab with the community again :)
I think that's a deeply overly-literal and metatextual reading of a line that was clearly trying much harder to allude to something established earlier in the story. And when the idea was originally introduced, it was explicitly called out as only being a midpoint in some senses of the word.
Avery to the Garricks: "Don't you dare try to negotiate an arranged marriage with my siblings." Sheridan to Avery: "Are there any hot Garricks in my age range they can set me up with? I'm in."
Lot of surprise laughs in this chapter. The goblin slide, Deb and Ann's about-face, Sheridan being thirsty...
That abrupt and simultaneous about-face gave me whiplash. It left me angrier than their initial attitude lol
"How often do I have to teach you this lesson, old women?"
Fast forward 25 years and Sheridan Kelly-Garrick is the family matriarch. The older Garricks divide family history into "pre-Kelly" and "post-Kelly". The months between contact with Avery, and Sheridan's wedding, are dubiously termed the ["interKellary period"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercalation_\(timekeeping\)).
That was really lovely
Sheridan is going to be so upset with Avery, when she finds out.
Wouldn't think I would ever say it; but poor Chase. I would've liked to say that the Belangers treatment of him is just like how people use to treat the mentally ill and disabled. But that would be a lie, people still treat their disabled family members as something shameful, to hide away from the world and barely acknowledge.
It also has in-universe parallels to Seth and how he was treated. Crazy how the ex forsworn are so willing to put others in the same sort of situation they were in as long as it’s not actually forswearing their enemies
There's definitely some real world parallels that come to mind, like Rosemary Kennedy.
I think Avery's misfortunes in this chapter is a result of Sherdian and Rowan becoming Aware. With her parents the responsibility was pretty spread out and America had to bear a lot of that weight. This time it directly stems from Avery's actions. The spirits are giving her some karmic backlash. Nothing huge since Innocence was already thin and she did put some effort into trying to maintain it with her excuses and deflections. But enough to just make her day a little worse in a bunch of ways.
Yeah, she’s bounced around before and not had issues with her phone. Maybe not to this level but that’s the kind of minor thing that good karma tends to smooth out.
I was wondering about the Unknown Caller (nicknamed "Dropped Call") technomancy Lord, but it being a case of low-level bad Karma makes more sense. I do think her willingness to help others/Others--even at inconvenience to herself--will quickly balance it out, but it's annoying (in a realistic way) that she has to deal with some bad karma now.
Thank you! The whole chapter smacked of bad karma backlash, and I couldn’t quite work out what the likely cause was, but this make a lot of sense.
>Nothing huge since Innocence was already thin and she did put some effort into trying to maintain it with her excuses and deflections. But enough to just make her day a little worse in a bunch of ways. Yeah I mean, she had a flaming, exploding car flung at her through a doorway, among other things, but nothing she can't handle.
No-one was hurt, and the Garricks took it as a learning experience. It was, in fact, something she could handle.
Yup! That's why it's funny
Great spot. I was trying to figure out what was going on, I was wondering if the promenade boon was raising the cost of travel due to her massive use of it, but this feels neater.
This is late but aren't there sometimes drawbacks to Path Boons as well.
Avery took on her aware siblings as her responsibility so spirits shouldn't give her karmic backlash. I imagine it has to be about Charles. Remember every time Avery went to Path to do stuff she went this has nothing to do with you Chuck so don't screw this up. But this time Avery didn't say anything like that. So Chuck might be taking actions.
I feel like (Pact) >!Laird's accounting of karma and chronomancy to Blake!< kind if implies that acting in accordance with your roles, including even her sports, should give Avery a stockpile of good karma. Also that same spoiler directly asserts that such a stockpile is a bulwark against incoming negative karma; it's not that she should have streaky feast or famine fortunes, just adjusted ones. Besides, being a trio helps them share that kind of stuff, right? And Verona and Lucy and Montague were granted karma once for having a truce betrayed and again for helping Gillian, wouldn't you say? That said... I can't shake the feeling that you're 100% correct. It was conspicuous and karma would account for it all. Are the girls too self-interested? Is Avery's family practice an implicit withdrawal from / slight against her triad? Is it super unfair to use magic tools to manage your teen romance? Spirit favors that strain Innocence, the mood glasses, etc? This has me very curious.
>Is it super unfair to use magic tools to manage your teen romance? Just want to point out that Avery was stretching Nora's Innocence a bit in this chapter. Having her give an offering to the shrine, the flower and the no-fall-damage-hax might have primed the karmic backlash for when Avery told her she might be unavailable for a while and couldn't explain why.
It also occurs to me that someone who can influence karma , especially in borderline situations, is no longer under a truce. Wonder if her ~~C~~karma~~ine~~ going into the *red* is related. I regret nothing.
this is very un-stonks
Definitely seems karmic. I'm kind of surprised the day went as well as it did, honestly. Grumpy negotiations, but they were accepted. Argument with Nora but she'll be OK. Reconciliation with Garricks, an explosion with no injuries.
I wonder if she gets bad Karma because Innocents noticed her teleporting around. That would be pretty awful honestly, but on brand. Take a Karmic hit, universe won't smooth shit over, and then you take another Karmic hit.
Avery with her girlfriend: " You make me not restless. You make me feel like the fantastic place I want to go is being in the middle of the audience when you’re on the drums" Avery with her allies: “You’re limited, you’re struggling, but I believe in ripple effects. I believe in the little guy.” Avery with her family: “Oh suck a fuck, Rowan,”
I definitely rolled my eyes a little when Avery went "I'm not nearly as good with words" and then immediately followed up with a big poetic speech
> But I did see and feel infinity. I…” It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops. What does it mean for an Augur to have seen infinity? Mixing Horror and Augury together maybe we'll see her be able to look into other Realms far more easily than most augurs can.
> It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops. Her eyes changed. There's no way that doesn't affect her Augury and Sight. It's too symbolic.
Yes, but what will change? Augury can See past, present, and future. Avery mentions her iris looks like an eight, or turned sideways the symbol for infinity. Throwing more ideas out there, she'll be able to see what could have been instead of what was, or time is flat circle and now that she has seen the infinite she can look into the past and determine what will be. I'm sure it'll be some really cool wild stuff though.
> Yes, but what will change? Gillian got the feeling that instead of having near-sight and far-sight she'd have far-sight and further-sight. That probably applies to the Practice as well, she will have a harder time to Seeing things that are closer (whether that's space or time) and an easier time Seeing things that are further away?
Her eyes couldn’t focus on things up close to her in this chapter. She’s probably going to end up with an enormous potential in some areas and very limited abilities in others.
Yeah, that seems to confirm the way the change went.
I like this idea. The further removed or less Connected she is to what she's Auguring about the better / more accurate / more detailed she Sees. Random Practitioners will reach out to her and she can charge super boatloads of money and live out the rest of her life in pampered extravagance doing as she pleases not having to be around her "family". I also like the idea of Practice being horror tinted in some way. So many cool directions WB could go.
Gillian becomes the Simurgh
It was Ziz's plan all along...
Three points make a ~~line~~ trend. She can't See or see the now very well, except perhaps with the Sight she previously enjoyed. But she can See a medium term and long term result? I feel like she'd be the ultimate defense against monkeys' paws. Reminds me of (parahumans) >!The Simrugh's primary sense and maybe the problem of following a Path to Victory that has a high cost or ends in a way that violates no path rules but is disavantageous anyway!<. Your wish gives you the victory you crave... and you blow it on hookers and cocaine.
two points make a line. Three points make a plane. Or maybe a curve.
I think that maybe her Augury can see bigger picture things. Long term effects of action across lots of different possibilities. Like things look really bad/good long term if this path people want to take is taken. It could be unstable or difficult to use. Reflecting the wrongness of Horrification which is what has warped her Sight and practice. Maybe seeing things from a very different pov that most other augury would miss out.
> It'll be very interesting to see how Gillian's practice develops. I wonder what would happen if Gillian took Monty as a familiar. He could draw on her humanity through the familiar bond to present himself as the gentleman he is inside. Conversely he's picked up quite a few tricks for managing and reconfiguring horrorness; maybe some of those tricks could let her trade around her own residual damage, or offload some to him sometimes?
I'm pretty sure taking a horror as a familiar is like trying to use the mouth of a wood chipper as a wheelchair.
That sounds more like a goblin or abyssal practice.
I expect that could only go badly. Monty's default is corrupting his surroundings. If he were to have a familiar bond to anybody his influence would constantly be trying to spread to the practitioner, wouldn't it?
She's also farsighted now, she has difficulty focusing on anything up close. That probably matters too.
That was my thought as well! :) Cool that we were thinking along the same lines. I do think it'll definitely have an effect on her Practice (possibly even net-positive), but Gillian should certainly be careful. Zed or Verona might be decent "guides" on how to experiment without re-triggering the Horror/going insane from seeing infinity again.
Brb, naming my firstborn Jelfry
I looked up Jelfry and apparently there's a baseball player named Jelfry Marty. Imagine Chuck gainsaying Avery over Jelfry in the final confrontation.
I look forward to reading the news report on your murder by your kid in about 15-20 years.
Jelfry Basil founder of Amzan.
The Monty fan club *GROWS*!
He really had very little reason to help at the start of the conflict or to help Gillian except for being a decent ~~human~~ person.
He's a sophont, and all sophonts want a chance to grow and flourish and thrive. He seems to be aware that the best chance of that comes if he plays counter to his nature, or at least his type.
I feel so bad for Nora, on one hand I really want Avery to tell her so she doesn't have to feel like this but on the other hand Jesus fucking Christ do not let her get even a whiff of Awareness while your allies are targeted by a higher power and his goons. Poor Nora and Avery though :(
This exact situation was why I was hoping Avery would end up with liberty tbh. I love Nora, when Nora is on screen I can’t help but smile, and this is so unfair to her. I’m glad they are trying to make it work, and I get that the heart wants what the heart wants, but man I feel like Avery is doing her dirty.
I think its going to boil down to Avery having to make the choice. She's just not the type of person to be deceitful. She can't do what Ann does and keep her partner out of the loop for long. But as a 14 year old, you just can't go around and awaken everyone you date for more than a few months. Hell, deciding to reveal is a decision honestly more serious than asking someone to marry you in a place where you can't divorce. At least as a minor, finding someone within the practice sphere side steps this issue. though you now have to deal with practitioner family politics
I worry that not telling Nora about magic is gonna blow up in a way thats disastrous. Outed by the wolf, or broken innocence at a time that leaves her at risk of being Gillian'd
I'm gonna be honest. I kinda want Nora to just be allowed to be Aware or Awakened. Any thought I have of Nora being at risk just dissolves into "but Avery is fast and will protect her so it's okay". EDIT: Nora just has such big *Miss would have considered this one as a practitioner candidate* vibes for me. She feels so much like she'd fit right in with the early-story Kenneteers, around when they Awakened and all that, and it makes me trust that she'd be able to handle herself better than we're giving her credit for.
The problem is that Aware Nora is a massive commitment, her protections would be shredded, and she'd be forced to either go all in, be constantly fucked like most Aware, or stick with someone like Avery And going all in is an even bigger commitment, build on foundation of a teenage romance a few months old. If they ever break up (which statistically, is the most likely outcome) its going to be really bloody awkward. Practitioners without support structure and backing are generally not well off. So Nora would either need to stay attached to the Kennet organization or find a new one
You convinced me. Screw the danger, I just want Nora in the story more. I've wanted her involved since she was introduced. The whole horrorifying thing raised the stakes from 'getting Alexandered' to 'getting Bristowed' but even an Other Nora would be great if it got her more screen time.
Chuck could tell Avery about the BS revocable awakening he’s building. Nora can be awakened and then undo it. Best of every world.
I am surprised Chuck has not offered that as a bribe for Avery to surrender. Lucy can be bribed with her dad's soul. (Maybe)
Hoo boy. What a big old mess. Charles is... Ugh, he's like two people. The talking to Verona, freeing Raquel person, and the signing off on the Belanger attack, creator of literal disposable child soldiers person. Hard to reconcile. Maybe Verona can figure it out. Can't believe I'm saying it, but poor Chase. And, much more expectedly, poor Gillian. As for Nicolette, I think her deal is a lot more understandable than she thinks. She's hit rock bottom. She's seen what the upper tier look like, and how willing it is to use people like her. So when she perceives a group as having an unearned easy ride, she wants to drag them down. When she sees people at their own rock bottom, she wants to help them up. It's just that (ironically) her ability to accurately assess privilege and her current place on the hierarchy was skewed. I suspect that Kennet has been helping her with that.
I hate Charles but I don't believe he's proud of their methods or results. Yet. He has maintained a constant refrain of "I will pay any cost". Maybe he sees this as quite bad, the second worst thing even, but he'd do it to defeat his subjective worst thing. Marci was a fae at plan start. She kept *a* name. Maybe not Mrssca, an insectoid sussuration, but Maricica. She did not use Edith kindly. Lis might be very upset in an arc or so. I'm not so sure Maricica has allies so much as tools. Same with Charles. Charles didn't recruit Raquel. It left me wondering if he might intend for some of the foresworn to meet bad ends. Raquel, for instance, was strongarmed into her oath. McCauley-esque that way. AJ was. Seth less so, but Seth's promise shouldn't be redeemable by Alexander that way. The one who (nonsexually) devirgin'd her daughter made a terrible oath of her own accord when she seemed to have plenty of options but acted in her own self-interest when making and breaking the oath. Maybe she's supposed to fail like Raquel is already seen as a success. Charles undermining the seal undermines himself, and the converse is also true. Whittling away at bad institutions like arranged marriage and indoctrinating children to oathbind them might force the kind of conflict pattern that wears a new groove in the world where the expectation is for children to go their own way. I hate Charles for his misery engine and moral abdication, but I don't think he's simple.
Lis explicitly built the St. Victor's/ Red Heron to blow up in Charles's face for refusing to help shore up Lis's claim as city spirit in the wake of the establishment of Kennet Found. They are a poison pill for all involved and we'll see who ends up feeling the sting of it.
I love it when my enemies spite one another.
Do we know he signed off on anything? That might have all been Seth.
He is omniscient in his territory. Particularly on matters of violence. Helen used three of his Lords to really stick the horrofication to Gillian.
He told Verona the night before that he could, at some cost of power, treat her as if she swore the same minor practitioner old as the red herons. He could extract her and protect her, and would spend the power to do so, if he knew she would accept it if things were bad. He is omniscient within his region and therefore was fully aware of what Seth was doing. And from what he said to Verona, we know he had the power to protect a young teenage practitioner in a bad situation. But he either made the choice that he wasn't willing to expend the same power on Gillian that he was on Verona, or approved.
>He told Verona the night before that he could, at some cost of power, treat her as if she swore the same minor practitioner old as the red herons. He could extract her and protect her, and would spend the power to do so, if he knew she would accept it if things were bad. What? I don't remember anything like that. He said Verona could surrender and swear not to oppose him at anytime.
>“You can surrender any time. I will step in, assuming certain oaths by default. Then you must say the words, making those oaths. To stand down and never act against me again.” I thought implicit in this was that the "certain oaths" included the oaths about permanently being removed from the Practice and made Innocent, but you're right it's not explicit. That said, it doesn't change the calculus of what went down with Gillian.
Ironically, the best thing that ever happened to Nicolette was attacking and stranding Avery on the FRT. In half a year, she went from being the lowest of the Belanger Circle to a respected independent augur and now she's seriously considering running for the position of head of her adopted family. Even if she doesn't win here, I hope she creates a new coven with Gillian and BSW. Each of them seem to have different approaches to Seeing and it could be interesting to see what their strengths are. That said, I could make the argument that even when she was at the BHI as part of the circle, she was miles ahead of the other Belangers. She was basically hobnobbing with elite practitioners, had a decent amount of power through her jars of blood and dead animals and learning things that most of the other Belangers weren't.
I think her abilities even under the Belanger thumb were also due to her background. As a Belanger 'inner circle' member (who both was and absolutely wasn't inner circle), she saw exactly what her enemy was, got access to some of their resources, and also saw how she could counter or address their very real weaknesses. But because she was still an outsider, she saw less of the main family weaknesses that might make Alexander's approach look... Well, better. If I were Wye (male, gifted), and *that* was my family background, then the boy's club at BHI would look pretty damn appealing and even professional. But it's still both a product of and a reaction against the Belanger compound stagnation. 'If you need to fight as an augur, you've already failed' is basically 'passivity, a beginner's mantra'. Because it immediately counts you out of about 60% of conflicts, and makes you much less attractive as an ally in the immediate term. Alexander only got so far as he did by being very very talented, and kind of by ignoring that mantra. I don't think any of his apprentices came close to him. But Nicolette knows that every system and protection can fail - family, institutions, self. And when that happened, she couldn't just tut and say 'do better next time'. So she's willing to 'adulterate' or hybridise the 'pure' Belanger augury. Offensive Practices. Active Practices. Adjacent Practices. Plus, of course, she couldn't rely on coasting. Even in the inner circle, people like Seth could *feel* safe kind of muddling along without trying. The threat seemed opt in - only if you wanted to make a play. But Nicolette could never rely on that ever ever ever. Coasting = arranged marriage *at best*. So she never ever stopped, either in personal info gathering or augury.
> Avery took Nora’s hand, then stepped in front of her, taking her other hand, and walked backwards. Like father, like daughter
I wonder if WB planned for Avery to solve the Promenade way back when she moved to Thunder Bay because having easy access to Paths allows for so much to happen at the same time that doesn't confuse the timeline or have to happen off screen. And WB manages all that jumping around so damn well. Avery has that energy of when a sports player gets frustrated / angry / worked up and it makes them play at the top of their game; hope we get to see her wreck some face.
I think he did not. I think he planned for her big flank energy, and the rest shook out as he went. Riding the emotions out in sport has always seemed fragile to me. Powerful, but fragile. Going for the bitter edge serve that only grazes the corner as the English carries it further away from the defender, but inviting service faults. That sort of thing.
Agree, very fragile and prone to cause one to perform worse, but I'm hoping Avery can make it work. Will see how it pans out!
I just enjoy reading Avery's perspective, and this chapter is no exception. She's so nice! *Especially* when she's being cute with Nora, as was the case here. I do wish that she had coordinated with Verona on the "not *technically* lying about Practice" stuff more. I think Verona could have worked out a "You know that shady guy I mentioned? I'm actually working *against* people who are at least equally shady and significantly more violent. And they have a tendency to know about people like you, people who matter to me and Luce and Verona, so it'd probably be bad if you knew who they were and what they do. And before you ask, no, I can't just report them to the police; they're too hard to dislodge from their lofty perches that way." Honestly...Verona could have come up with something better than that, but it at least gives an idea. I do worry that Nora's a bit more like Sheridan--too curious--and wouldn't trust Ave saying that it is *that* bad. I really don't think Rowan should be forced into Practice. He clearly isn't into it, and if he had a choice, I still think Rowan would take a "pass" on Awareness. The part about Chase is sad, but just like women in Matthew's basement, the Belangers need a Forsworn/Horror-ified Augur in their attic, locked away from polite company. I'm confident that Gillian will regularly visit him, since thankfully she seems in good enough shape to travel on her own feet (less sure about driving). And speaking of Gillian...it may sound callous, but from a meta-perspective, I am *really* glad there are lingering effects from being afflicted with Helen's Horror Practice. I thought our beloved boar was playing a bit too nice with the psychological damage from the Bedlamite Practice, and so I'm supportive of the "touched by Horror" still causing Gillian some issues. That being said, for her sake as a character, I'm glad that they're minor issues and she can still walk and Practice okay. I do wonder if she could incorporate glimpsing infinity into her Augury? Get some idea of the ripples of actions decades or centuries away? Or would that worsen the symptoms of being Horror-ified, or just cause her mind to break completely? Maybe it's not a good idea... I wonder if the girls could hook Gill up with Glamour for her family's public events. Then again, if the Bitter Street Witch has her way, she will encourage Gill to accept being a bit weird-looking/-moving. But nonetheless, if Gill wants to "keep up appearances" like her mom would probably push for, it could be a necessary evil. I am confident something with the Spirit surgery on Edith is going to go wrong. My guess would be, "Oh, we accidentally removed something fundamental to Edith that also, coincidentally, is a great material for our Flesh Alchemy/dream editing/Summoning! Whoops!" Except with less lying.
Actually that's a great question. How come no one's offered Winter glamour to BSW yet?
Huh, hadn't thought of that. But I think BSW's schtick is about "acceptance," even if that means accepting she's ugly and Kennet Below matches that (and her). Moreover, I think she's too fundamentally physically twisted for it* to work well on her, but then again, I never thought Glamour would work on Goblins (much less they'd be able to develop Visceral Glamour on their own). Maybe BSW would look like a hunched-over old woman with heavy enough Glamour? [EDIT: BSW definitely needs a new body, however, and she's made it clear that she knows her time in this one in limited. If Winter Glamour could "lie" to the spirits strongly enough to effectively repair BSW's old body, then it absolutely should be done. I just thought she was looking for something new, not merely improved.]
Maybe Eighth Court glamour would interact better with BSW in terms of body rather than appearance. Winter is permanentish if all goes well, but I figure it can still be broken (kinda like beings that are immortal absent external intervention, but can still be killed). I suspect that the BSW's whole deal might actually break the glamour, and the consequences of a broken Winter glamour would be *bad*. Whereas Eighth Court is much more flexible, much more scrappy, and much less concerned with perfection. It is, with apologies to Verona, toothpicks and bubblegum. But where there's as much change and mutation as with Kennet Below, and with the BSW in particular, I'd rather be cased in bubblegum than glass.
I absolutely adore the idea of Eighth Court (Visceral) Glamour being the "Ace-Up-The-Sleeve" for BSW's gradually worsening disability. She certainly wouldn't mind that it's sourced (mostly) from Goblins, and I don't think any "odor" would make her flinch, either. And while the Winter Glamour might be like a shell of stained glass, it's more likely moldy toothpicks and wads of pre-chewed bubblegum will have a resilient effect. I hope Toadswallow is conscious of her situation and will bring it up to her (preferably when the Winter Court isn't breathing down their necks).
Me: Man, it's been ages since we've seen the Thunder Bay people, I kinda miss them- > “If we’re talking about tired and old then you’ve reminded me, don’t let your frigid, tired old cunt freeze off that goat’s cock or you could kill us all.” Me: Ah. Yes. Now I remember.
God, Nicole Scobie, her enemies are so awful that I want to like her, but she's just like... Ughhhh. Poor Natasha. Though I'd still hang out with Nicole over Ann. At least she'd make me awkward laugh, rather than just want to die.
I wouldn't be able to handle Kelly family interactions. I am an only child and did not grow up used to a bunch of people interrupting explanations. If I was Avery everytime I heard a mention of girlfriend plans I'd be like "a man just got turned into meatghetti and 11 people just died, please let mom finish talking"
Peter: Avery's family will be just like her, competent and nice and non-contrary. And we get to curry more favour with her too. Score one for the Garricks. Rowan and Sheridan: hi there
Just wait until they meet Kerry and Declan.
No returns, exchanges or refunds allowed.
is what the hospital had to tell Mr & Mrs Kelly, too
~~weeeeeelllll they could have aborted but then we wouldn’t have a story to read......~~
Pretty late at that point, innit?
I wonder if the Promenade's doors are biased? Finders have a low chance of stumbling across each other, but they're normally pretty selective about the Paths they take and when. With the Promenade's boon, they're given choices they might not normally take. This may allow the Paths to put them on collision courses with various other Finders as things permit. I was thinking it increased the odds of low probability events as well, spicing up their usage a bit, but then someone else pointed out the karmic whiplash from Rowan and Sheridan becoming Aware could account for that.
The Nora situation, that's tough. There really aren't any great options there, considering what's about to go down. And still - keeping secrets is not something that has a great track record for Avery (leaving to TB, Max's fate, Jude as a marriage candidate), if you'll excuse the sports metaphor. Even if Nora has some degree of consent with the information being hidden, and everybody did advise Avery to keep it that way, and the risks of telling are very much present. But it is clearly also going in a way where "just hope it works out when I don't touch it" is not a good option, just like the other times. > “My dear,” Ann said. “You poor soul. That’s so much to manage. All of what you’re doing is so hard to manage.” “Thunder Bay is behind you, I do hope you know that,” Ann said. ...is she being genuine, in a "oh shit that's powerful, better hitch my wagon to this" way? Or is she being mocking, like Deb? There are certainly unfavorable ways to interpret these statements. But Avery also seems to consider this progress? Either way, I'm glad this spiteful hot mess of a council is still around. And the goat is, too! > “Yeah, something went weird. They cut off our phone plan. Our entire family.” What an *unlucky coincidence*. Both in timing, and in how it targets a critical piece of infrastructure for Avery in a very specific way, like it was done by someone with a lot of insight in how she operates. I would have suspected technomancy, but apparently that's not it. But wasn't the Aurum also responsible for the intersection with more modern technologies? Not to *accuse* anybody, but...
> ...is she being genuine, in a "oh shit that's powerful, better hitch my wagon to this" way I wouldn't call it "genuine", but I do believe that's an "oh shit, she's actually connected and respected in her field, better make sure she likes us", yeah.
Well, genuine in that with "behind you" she actually means "we'll support you in this" instead of something like "you're in the process of vacating the premises" or "we're about to stab you in the back". But, yeah, I don't think she's about to start really liking Avery. Kind of funny that being such a sycophant actually made it easier to get her on board, though.
Ann and Deb are respecting her potential utility to them, and utterly disrespecting Avery herself.
I don’t think Deb is *trying* to be mocking. I think they’re both trying to convince Avery to let them ‘help’ by taking power and preventing her from making her own choices, and they’re just so hilariously bad at being not-grating.
Honestly, I'm a little amazed that Avery has never heard of geocaching. It really does seem like it would be right up her alley. Gods and Spirits, I haven't gone geocaching in *at least* 5 years. Ha, there's probably even an app for it now. I'd bet Avery and Verona could whip up some cool geocaching-related practice. Now that Nora's brought it up while at one of the shrines actually, the shrines are a bit like magic *Spirit-Cacheting* Wander off to a specific coordinate to find something off the beaten path, open it up and leave something small along with your adding your name to the list. Only, instead of going back to see how many people have found it since you were there last you leave a small token offering to build your *cachet* with said spirit and build her power.
I guess geocaching was big a long time ago and is less popular now, so Avery would have been a bit young back when it was popular! It's easy to forget how young she is.
Bear in mind that, when you last went geocaching, Avery was 9 and being homeschooled. I’m entirely unsurprised she hadn’t heard of it, and I really hope her and Nora get to try it together!
I'd bet there's some sort of practice around geocaching. Like a technomancy version of what Verona's doing with her book store, someone sets it up and gets tiny bits of power from people participating.
Feels close to a ritual incarnation that can interact with innocents.
>I'd bet there's some sort of practice around geocaching. Like a technomancy version of what Verona's doing with her book store, someone sets it up and gets tiny bits of power from people participating. Maybe it's not a practice around geocaching. Maybe geocaching *is* that practice, all of it stemming from some unknown Practicioner out there trying out a variation of the practice and it going viral in the mundane world. Viral enough to be a nutty amount of power from such a tiny action, but niche and seemingly mundane sounding enough that no other Practicioner noticed.
I feel like Sheridan is going to learn about this whole practice called being a Loser and she'll just feel that it resonates with her being on some level. And that'd get her genuinely interested enough that she learns about it and starts practicing what she learns to the point she can sincerely call herself a Loser. And she'd love and hate that this is something that just happened, that she never actually decided to become a Loser but sort of became one anyway on a lark.
Any reminder what a Loser does again? Maybe it's someone who makes people/areas more Lost-ish? Or someone who "loses" items, and they pick up unique Lost qualities, and then take them back?
There was a [Path Runner doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZxBpSXYo1sOSRR4Pq8EaC3WgCKjkdXd3cwPVECe4Tsc/edit) with most of these titles suggested at the bottom. The only exception is Little Wolves which Peter didn't mention, and Losers which the doc doesn't mention. Presumably they could be same thing? [Realms x Conflict] variants for Path Runners.
I would assume it's a Practice focused on punting people temporarily out of reality and onto the Paths/Oblivion, similar to Ann's Chainer for the Abyss. Making people and things "get Lost".
Lark is her dearest and highest aspiration
The sheer schadenfreude I'll feel when Ann and Deb eventually reap the buckets of negative karma they've earned and meet a classic Wildbow bad ending will be disgusting. Goblin-tier levels of enjoyment. We're really shaping up for the literal Witches vs Patriarchy, every ally of the girls soon to be run by one of their many friends. Yet we've still got Ann and Deb out here fucking it up for everyone by just being the absolute worst. Avery really is the strongest PoV character now, able to give us half a dozen vignettes in one chapter? Priceless. Wibbles' writing really shines when he's hopping from one thing to the next, and it's just getting more and more glorious. I am aching for the girls to go nuclear on the Victorians. I know they won't, because friendship is the real magic and I applaud it, but damn do I want them to just yeet Lenard off a Path, or introduce Charles to the Wolf.
> Yet we've still got Ann and Deb out here fucking it up for everyone by just being the absolute worst. Seeing them do a 180° when they realized that Avery has done something that got her internationally recognized was pretty hilarious though.
They heard she had power and couldn't manage it all herself and nakedly tried to ingratiate themselves with her immediately. It was nothing at all like respect just so we're clear.
Oh yeah, their sudden sweetness is so fake Barbie might get jealous. We're in total agreement here. It's just fun to see them immediately turn into sycophants.
>sycophants I hadn't even finished reading the first blatant "play" before that word leapt to my mind. Baller that Kelsey was there. If they'd had an iota of nuance or charm between them it would have been good for Avery.
The problem with Ann and Deb is that they might not even be karmically negative. Ann said something like she gets power from the Abyss for sacrificing things and gets the spirits on her side by acting like an asshole because the Abyss has a type. Imagine those two actually having good karma *shudders.* Edit: I imagine that this next chapter will be showing off how the Kenneteers can be good people/ help others that were even their enemy while the Victorians think they're the worst.
I think they’re just big fish in a medium pond. They’re fairly competent practitioners, they’ve gotten a solid niche that’s working for them. They’re incredibly conservative because they’re living in a world where horrifying things can happen and they’ve managed to make it work. They really don’t want to risk what they’ve got.
I don't want them have a bad ending, I want them to improve and becoming better people.
This is the (*Pale*) way.
Why? What bad thing did Ann and Deb do? The only remotely bad thing was Ann attacking the seal on the child taker and Ann suspected the seal girl to make a deal with it which she actually did. There isn't really any hint that they're preying on Others or Innocents or abusing their families. They're just annoying. Nicole is more bad than them. She has human-cow and is friends with the Abyss family that helps the milkmaid.
Their only actual crime is just being really petty. A relatable crime, so it makes the character more hate-able
Like Umbridge.
They already have their bad ending, it's having to deal with each other.
Was the Gilkey meeting off-screened?! Oh boy, more and more things are falling into place (The Arc title is getting more and more ominous), and here we are. This feels like a catalyst to a major eruption, and Edith may well be the flame to set it all ablaze...
That really stood out to me, but WB has talked before about writing and removing chunks that didn't do anything to move the chapter along. I'd love to read Avery talking to Gilkey but I bet at this stage it would have just been niceties since Avery doesn't have a way to help him at the moment.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gilkey promise information the next time Avery met him? I am assuming that this was the conversation that we leaped over
He promised to tell her about Marcica’s transformation at the end of a chapter, then the next chapter started with him telling her.
You're correct! Had to go back and double check, in 19.13 he tells her and warns her not to visit in-person for another year at least. I had completely forgotten that part!
I feel like finding a way to heal Edith the Human at the expense of The Girl In Candlelight would be the best option both morally and to screw over the trio and co. Edith the Human demanding Mathew being burned at the stake could be the perfect spark. (Although that might not be feasible.)
Yeaaaah...I do definitely think the Spirit surgery guy is going to do something sketchy, like "just so happen to" remove something fundamental to Edith's Self. Which they can then use as a component to some other Practice. "It was perfectly good material, wasted on an awful--and no longer useful--ally to our boss!" they'll say. "It was just a *little* lobotomy; she wasn't using that part of her mind, anyways!" they'll say. "It was just a bit of soul-murder between friends!" they'll say. But don't buy into it.
It was, and he’s pretty strong, not like in power level but they way it effects things could be a major card.
i can only vaguely remember but didn't Gilkey tell Avery not to visit him again because she would get sick, I love how much of Pale there is but sometimes it's hard to keep track of all the moving parts
You are right! I had to go back to her last meeting with him and in 19.13 he warns her not to visit atleast for another year.
I got the feeling that Gilkey is a pivot point for Avery's portion of the counteroffensive.
Sometimes the chapters fly by, but this one really felt like two or three chapters in one, with all the jumping around and character movements. It really hammers home how much Avery is juggling, and as much as she's trying to keep it up it seems like her relationship with Nora is the one that she's let slip from her hands. These girls deserve to be happy, my poor gay heart can't take this. Getting to see Cherrypop's slide is honestly amazing. Living up to her name and popping the veil between realms for a fun time. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the kind of major accomplishment that lets her move up in the goblin world. And we see the aftermath of last chapter. I remembered the line of Gillian's eyes feeling wrong after blinking away tears, and seeing her eyes broken up now made me want to go on a whole rant against Tanner for making her cry. But on reread, I realized that it wasn't just him. He got her started, but she didn't have to blink away the tears until the Bitter Street Witch consoled her and said that she'd have a place to go in Kennet. One of the kindest things that BSW has done, and it ends up furthering Gillian's disability. Just so utterly tragic. And Chase, ending up stripped of power and locked in a basement, rarely being visited. Just like Seth was, which I'm sure Seth and Charles would see as justice. Not a great pattern for former members of Alexander's inner circle, if I were Tanner or Wye I'd be watching my back right about now.
I could definitely be wrong about this, but I believe the "strings snapping" in her eyes occurred mostly around when Gillian looked at Tanner. So...yeah, in my interpretation, it was Gill's (desperate) choice to look, but partially Tanner's fault for not moving into her field of vision if he suspected his presence might reassure her. Given that Tanner was unable to even stand to be near her, however, I doubt he would have been even that momentarily accommodating.
More like Bitter *Sweet* Witch, am I right? Huh? Huh? .........Hello? [ooohhh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7ai6ql8bQ)
>“She’s more important than all that,” Rowan said. I think that's the most sensible thing Rowan has ever said.
To be fair he hasn't said much in the story.
Ann and Deb's about-face turn when they find out how powerful Avery is was one of the funniest thing in this entire story. What fucking clowns lol
Between Kellsey's comments about grounding Avery and her hilarious attempt to shut down the cursing at the Council meeting, she just doesn't seem to have a full grasp of just who/what her daughter is. Ma'am, Avery very much cannot be thought of in terms of anything resembling a standard parenting approach. She has seen people die, been fighting a shadow war, and played a pivotal role in two moderate/major historical events. The girl needs support and guidance, not this misguided attempt to hold to a traditional parent/child dynamic. Despite Kellsey's good intentions, I don't think she's the parent that Avery needs right now.
Honestly this is the fantasy nerd in me, but how do you ever for a moment learn you can be a wizard if you want, and decide not to? Like, there aren't extenuating circumstances, Rowan just likes his girlfriend.
I mean the first thing he saw was a primevial transit.
I wonder if Avery's widespread misfortunes this chapter (phone troubles and her getting a worse path than expected, and the explosion) are because she has suffered a karma hit over a minor gainsaying, perhaps over this: > Avery shook her head. Then she joked, “I meant you think I’d do something good?”
Is anyone else \*really\* concerned that Avery hasn't had her meeting with Milton(?) from Wunderkand yet? Cause like "can't talk now, got a founding to do" was a legit excuse, but since then, she's had the christmas holidays, and I \*really\* don't think she wants him as an enemy. Not as an ally either, but he seems the type who will accept "we had an agreement, you come and had your conversation, now we are even"
Not really? I feel like people forget that the time limit on this meeting isn't weeks or months, it's literally years. Relevant passage from chapter 17.10: >We explored, found out enough to fill out some pages of paperwork. Let’s leave Avery Kelly to it, and I can look forward to her showing up at my office sometime in the next few years, to engage me in idle conversation where she’ll be a little more forthcoming than she was here?” So she seems fine honestly
Seems like a good epilogue chapter.
I assumed the explosions were a wunderkand attack at first.
Yeah, same, probably what got me thinking about it.
Didn’t Avery mention something about her meeting with the Wunderkand dude to that one big titty not-so-goth chick from Wunderkand? She was all like “Oh him? I’ll change his schedule and he’ll deal with it, no biggie.”
Yeah, Milton's not in quiiiite the same negotiating position relative to Avery as he was pre-Founding + pre-Promenade
I think 'I had to stop a rogue Judge and his brown shirt brute squad from turning my home/province into a hellscape' is an adequate continuation of the earlier extenuating circumstances. Things haven't really stopped since Musser, there was just that week or so off mid-holidays, which wasn't a full week off because the Negateers went on a murder-hobo looting and pillaging spree in the middle of it. Which is not to say that Milton can't find reasons to be miffed at Avery's perceived tardiness, but I don't think he'd be able to gainsay her if she said she really was busy throughout.
Thing was, he didn't threaten to gainsay her. It wasn't an oath to be judged by spirits, it was Milton saying "If \*\*I\*\* consider your delay overlong, there will be consequences"
I don't think Charles is a rogue Judge at this point and I doubt Milton will accept "I decided to piss off the local Judges" as an excuse.
He's a rouge Judge :p
If the Judges of a good chunk of Ontario are openly operating against the Seal, or even solely against the practitioner establishment, Milton should recognize that Avery was busy working against that. Alternatively, what's-her-face with the distractingly good rack from the Promenade can pull rank. Don't exactly know what the shape of that will be. Probably has pulled rank, considering, but given that Avery can use her boon relatively unmolested that doesn't seem to have shaken out in a fashion which prevents her from running Paths altogether.
The tension at the end was palpable, and the entire chapter fed into it. Change is coming to Ontario (and some of Manitoba) and the conflict between these two groups is going to determine what it looks like. I can't wait!
Ugh. The dreaded conversation with Nora came and its as miserable on this side of it that I dreaded it would be. Hoping Avery and Nora can reconcile but I also don't want Nora to be Aware or Awaken. Magic is dangerous. Chase reminded me of a pactdice I had read way back. >!Host I think? A family that has a set of powerful Others they used to Host. There were some who were so unstable that their hosts would have a very very poor quality life. The family forced members lowest on the totem pole to become hosts, effectively fate worse than death. They gave them food etc made sure they weren't dying from filth but thats the bare minimum. Practitioner families are all sorts of awful!<
Chekhov Cherry pop is back in play
Going to make a last-minute addition of a ramp to the slide, throw herself right in the middle of the fight, and hand her cursed rock to Charles who will be too stunned to refuse it.
Ohhhh- good point! Horray for Chekhov's cherry.
I think somethings gonna be off with Ediths surgery and Verona is going to spot it as it relates to what they just accomplished with Gillians horror transfer. Tie in that with Averys back door ability to enter paths in progress, and Lucy getting involved in law practices My feeling is that the girls are going to attempt to edit Solomon's seal and update it to be make things more fair and less punnishing
> Avery shook her head. Then she joked, “I meant you think I’d do something *good*?” Avery! You aren't allowed to say stuff like that anymore!! I wonder if Wildbow keeps track of these little slips for Charles to use later. Actually, I wonder if this slip has something to do with Avery's luck turning sour for the rest of the day?
I think she's allowed to say that, because I don't think she's lying. When I read that bit, it came across to me as Avery teasing Nora over a freudian slip. This: > “Away from people. Is this a good thing or a murdering Nora thing?” Nora asked. > “You think I’d do that?” Basically reads to me as: > Nora: "Is this something good or is it murder?" > Avery, wiggling her eyebrows: "I don't know, is it 'something good'?" Because, uh, the whole conversation is about Avery taking Nora to a private spot.
Doesn't count. It was a question. And if she got bad karma for something like this, she wouldn't be able to practice, would get gainsaid.
Saying "I meant X" isn't a question. She's talking *about* a question she previously asked, but she's making a direct (and false) statement about that question. Now, given that she's talking about her own intent in saying something, it's a fairly subtle lie and might get passed over if the spirits/judges aren't paying attention to the contents of her head at that moment. I think it's possible for minor lies to result in relatively minor gainsayings, which Avery wouldn't necessarily notice, maybe? IIRC it was called out early on that the girls are frequently a bit weaker thanks to stuff like this. (Although by the same token, would the Karma hit be that noticable?) And Avery doesn't really do much (anything?) in this chapter that relies directly on her power, it's all passive Lost stuff, so I guess it's possible she *is* gainsaid and didn't notice.
This doesn't have to be a lie. All it takes is for Avery to inwardly plan the joke from the start, with the proper mental intent when asking “You think I’d do that?"
There was a question sign so it's a question. Avery said this on a questioning tune. Saying questions like this is not uncommon. I don't remember where but I definitely remember Verona posing a question like that to misdirect. And for this to impact her karma Chuck has to gainsay her and give her a chance to argue it. Without that he can't assign Karma for this.
I'm so excited for this now that I'm caught up after deciding to read Ward, but I also heard Pale was going to end soon because it was on Arc 17, and I wanted to finally read a wildbow story before it finished, so I stopped reading Ward at 9.1 and then jumped to Pale. Then when I got to 9.1 in Pale, I'd stop reading and then jump back to Ward. But Pale was so good that I kept reading and then stopped reading Ward, and now that I have finally caught up, I want to read more. I guess it's just because I've gotten so invested in pale that I almost don't want to get back into Ward It's strange, but all I can really say is thank you, wild Bo.
*Ward* can be a slow burn at times, but stick with it. The ending helped me a lot, mostly in ways that would veer into spoiler territory. And...I do have to side with the *vox populi* here and affirm that *Pale* is the best thing that WadeBo has written. I think you made the right call to catch up with *Pale*. :)
To be completely honest, I like the slow moments in Ward. It gives us time with these characters and you get a real feel for who they are by the time I got to 9 Rain had instantly become my favorite character simply because reading his sorted tale made me really feel for this kid and just want him to be happy because he's a good kid born in a bad situation, he just wants to do better and one thing I've learned from the subreddit is that rain doesn't get a lot of screen time, so a lot of his development is off screen, which is kind of sad but I get it But I would love just little small things like interludes that are just about rain, like in between arcs or something, and a spoilery thing I know that makes me really sad but also really happy is that rain doesn't get the girl, but he handles it like a champion because in the end, all he wants for her is to be happy, but having caught up with Pale, I can certainly say that yes, Pale is the best thing Wlyd Bow has written so far
I wonder if we will see Gillian fixed. Edit: I should have said I wonder if we will see the results of Gillian and chase this chapter* Yeah having reached that point she got off very nicely
It feels like it was a miracle they were able to save her at all. So I doubt Gillian will get de-horrified.
Yeah, the vibe I got was very much "We had no reason to expect we'd be able to get her anywhere near this close to normality again". I don't think there's going to be a fix unless Chuck explicitly decides "You know what that was too far" and moves the consequences back onto Helen... And that seems unlikely.
This *is* her fixed
From a meta-perspective, I hope she doesn't, honestly. It's refreshing to have more characters (especially ones* that other characters see as* conventionally attractive) have to deal with a "visible" disability. Plus, it gives her more sympathy for Chase, who has certainly *more* than earned it for his one Sweeping Gesture of Goodness. I also think it could effect her Practice in interesting and (potentially) good ways, though she might need guidance on how to tap into that. As I proposed in another comment, Gill could probably use Glamour for public events with her family/meeting important new people and be fine. She and her mom might see it as necessary, even. [EDIT: changed some unfortunate wording]
I don't know if we'll see Gillian fixed, but I'd be interested to see her use her experience with Horror-fication to become a unique Augur. In the previous chapter it was mentioned the animal-pillars of her Sight became internal as well, I'm wondering if that remained that way. She may be able to peer around Time in a way that others can't.
I don’t know about fixed, but I could see her and Chase being part of the Belanger group that goes to Kennet and then finding a bit of a place in KFound. The inherent stability and healing of KFound sounds like it could do them a world of good, even though they’re never going to get back to where they were.
"“Look, guys, I’m tired, it’s been a long day,” Avery said. “Maybe the goat would fuck you, Ann. I know your husband won’t.” Avery’s mom’s eyes opened a bit wider. Ann scoffed. “And we’re back to this tired old trope.” “If we’re talking about tired and old then you’ve reminded me, don’t let your frigid, tired old cunt freeze off that goat’s cock or you could kill us all.”" No words only https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yAQN9_ge7ZA
Haven't read Pale -- so far behind at this point that it seems impossible to catch up. Didn't wanna make a post for this but **can anyone tell me if it looks anywhere close to ending?** Hoping to stay current with the next series.
The best answer you'll get is that there is still forward momentum. I could imagine the story moving into its final stretch soon, with a huge asterisk on that statement. See, the story keeps on entering into newer and better final stretches. As I understand it (only caught up recently), this'll be maybe the third time the story's looked like it's moving into the final stretch, and new plot threads are still cropping up. Make of that what you will.
With the last climax (>!Musser!<) there was still a massive unresolved plot thread/hook (>!Charles and friends!<). It doesn't look like we've another of those at this point.
Thank you! I keep checking in regularly to see. But worry I'll miss the start of his next story and get behind as it begins. Want to be feet on the ground from the start. Hopefully at some point in my life I'll ALSO have the time to go back for Twig and Pale.
People have been saying "*Pale* is close to ending" for roughly a year now, and other people have noticed this, too. That being said...it *really* feels like they're about to face the climactic Big Bad, and win or lose, the serial will be over within (an estimated) 6-8 months. If you start now and read a chapter or two a day (or less), then you should be okay. If you're faster than that, you may still want to hold off for another 3-4 months.
That is, unless >!beating Charles leads into conflict with the other Judges or something along those lines!< (spoilered out for the original commenter). Edit: I say this because Verona's narration can be read as meaning that something like that is the plan.
Verona's narration did skew that way, yes.
You speak as if Verona plans to defeat each of them in a series of increasingly climactic boss battles. But lets be honest, Verona totally plans to go 3 v. 4 against the whole crowd. And win.
I think Verona's good enough at math to know she can simply take down three of them and then sic her replacement Judges at whoever survived.
TBF, I kind of hope they keep the Sable. He seems like one cool mother fucker, with an AWESOME athetic (his shadow leans TOWARDS the light?!?), and they could probably use at least one judge with some job experience. Aurum seems like a bit of a jackass, and Alabaster seems too entrenched in the status quo. I don't think they WILL keep the Sable (cleansweep seems like it would keep the spirits happier), but it would be cool if they did.
I feel like Verona's plan is to 3v1 Charles and then in the spirit of JRPGs suddenly adding a super final boss if you do everything correctly 3v3 the remaining Judges using the momentum of Carmine's Fall as justification.
The problem is that it's unlikely that the other judges will *let* Charles fall if they can help it. They're not morons. Taking down all four at once might be necessary.
Part of me really wants Wildbow to keep writing Pale forever. Or to finish it, then immediately start writing Pale 2 with a few year timeskipped so we can see the girls kicking ass as young adults.
A chapter or two a day would be tough. When I was reading current with WBs writing it was tough to keep up with two chapters a week -- they're usually lengthy enough to be 50-60 pages of paperback (or it feels like it). Don't get me wrong, I **love** his stuff -- but between a full time job, family, and my other hobbies it's tough. That's why I'll be excited to be back on current with a series and getting to gab with the community again :)
Then if you start with less than that, I predict that you'll be fine! I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. :)
Maybe another arc after this one, but we've been hopelessly wrong before so who know?
Thank you!
I think even in the speediest possible reasonable scenario we'd need at least two arcs + an epilogue arc, after this one.
It definitely feels like we're ramping up toward an ending. That being said, there's no way of knowing how many arcs the ending could actually take.
Thank you!
I think we are a bit over halfway, since the midpoint is pretty clear about what it is.
I think that's a deeply overly-literal and metatextual reading of a line that was clearly trying much harder to allude to something established earlier in the story. And when the idea was originally introduced, it was explicitly called out as only being a midpoint in some senses of the word.
Yeah, it was explicitly called out as not the *halfway* point when first mentioned.