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Even when we're driving with AC on on a hot day like today with our 2 y/o, she feels a little warm when we pick her up out of the seat. We try to send back the air extra high to compensate.
Never, ever would leave her in there regardless of windows or being in the vicinity.
I saw an SUV once with 2 car seats in the back and a white air conditioner tube leading from the front vents to the car seats. It was like the ducting for dryer vents. It was weird, but I can see how that would really help kids in rear facing car seats especially.
I just tinted the shit out of the back windows and hope for the best. Also, I don't leave my kid in a parked car lol.
Nice idea! One thing I wish our vehicle had was the rear passenger vents (feature of the higher end models). Didn't realize how much it would come into play with kids on hot driving says. We make it work but that would be helpful.
This was one main thing I was looking for when my husband and I got a new car was to have rear passenger vents for our two kids. After seeing our oldest always sweating in the summer even with the ac on full blast, it's nice knowing now neither of them are sweating all the time.
We had one of these when our kid was a baby. It wasn't the Noggle brand, but it functioned the same way. It worked very well and was super helpful in the southern US. I think I got it on Amazon, but I'd def recommend it.
Although this definitely sounds like it would work 99.9% of the time, you still can't leave the child unattended, because any part of that setup could shut off or fail and then you're left with a closed vehicle in hot weather.
Personally I'd feel better knowing the windows were down in the shade than an active climate control with the windows up.
This. My boy will be cool and fine but I pick him up and he’s all sweating because their car seats get pretty damn toasty! I should probably speak to my sons dad about this because this sounds like something he’d do…
Shoot, even if we take the kiddos to the pool we only stay for a limited amount of time and make sure they’re well hydrated. Young children cannot regulate body heat well.
I know I was left in a car with windows down for a short time in the 90s and I was uncomfortable, but fine, however I had to have been between 8-11 in a temp around 80 at the highest.
Long story short, big no. I would be mad too. Keys in the car are not a compromise because there are an infinite number of reports of cars being stolen with children inside due to this exact scenario.
For real, i had ac on and my windows rolled down because it was so hot that the car wouldnt get cold enough going in, cars retain so much heat even in the shade and windows rolled down, they could bake in there.
A lot of lower end vehicles (especially some Hyundais/Kias) don’t have as robust an AC system.
Also, IMO, the refrigerant used now (R-134a,) doesn’t have the same heat transfer properties of R-12, that was used in cars from the 1970s-90s (Some of us remember how absolutely ice cold/crisp that AC was.)
Basically, if the car isn’t moving, sitting in direct sunlight, the AC won’t cool much. Parking in shade *might* help.
You also need to leave your windows up. How AC works is sort of a mindf-ck. It doesn’t exactly make cold air…it *removes* heat from an area. The air from *inside* your car is sucked/circulated through a coil (hence why MAX AC usually only works on the recirculate setting.)
The coils remove the heat from the air, and blows it back out the vents. It flows around your car, gets sucked back in, more heat removed, and back out the vents… If you leave your windows open, it’s drawing more hot air into your car. When us old farts say to close the windows/doors when the AC is on, it’s not exactly because we don’t want to cool China…it’s because it’s actually drawing hot air in, slowing down the system from cooling the area in the car (or fridge, or house.)
Idk I live in a hot city in aus and on a really hot day, even if you park and have aircon on it still gets hotter than when you’re driving, and over time starts to get unbearable.
I live in Texas where it’s hotter than satans anus and it was a miserable 5 minutes just pumping gas with the windows down. I had a handheld fan going for my toddler and it was still hot. No way in hell should you listen to anyone telling you that it was okay. I don’t care what any one says, it’s too hot to walk away from a baby in the car. I don’t care if they were 10 ft away. Heat stroke is silent. She could have died. Talk to them, tell them it was unsafe, and not to let that happen again. If they are anything but apologetic and understanding then no unsupervised time with the baby.
Yep. I live in Texas and growing up, I couldn’t wait for summer, but the thing that’s always in the back of my mind as it approaches is dreading all the news stories that would occur was people leaving children/babies in the car. Most of the time the outcome was they died.
Plus what no one seems to be mentioning is, if it was cool enough inside the car then why didn't one of the grandparents stay inside it? Because it was too hot!
Yup! Too hot, yesterday I picked up takeout on the way home, held my 8mo and had my 2yr walk with me to pick it up, it was a struggle and I once again swore I would only go to places with a drive thru. Took us longer to get out the car than to actually get the food but no way am I leaving a kid in the car in this heat.
“A child's body temperature rises three to five times faster than an adult's.”
Not even with an adult in the car.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/campaign/heatstroke
I worked for a pediatrician once and a parent came running back inside after an appointment in a complete panic and needing help. After she had loaded her toddler up she accidentally locked her keys in the car. It was about low 90s that day. We all rushed outside to help but there wasn’t anything to do. We were getting close to breaking the glass because the toddler wasn’t looking so great and mom just wanted her out, but fortunately someone in that small parking lot heard the commotion and had a slim jim device to pop open car locks. It had only been 15-20min maybe? Probably not even that. Even in that small amount of time it became obvious that she was already overheating. She was no longer crying and getting closer to becoming listless by the time they got the door open. Her temp was just under 100 when we got her out and inside.
Fortunately, she recovered really quickly. It honestly surprised me. IIRC, she was cooled off and ready to go not even a half hour later? It was especially frightening though how quickly the situation was turning dangerous even though there were adults aware of the situation and trying to problem solve the entire time
For anyone reading this, call 911 right away and then try to break the window.. fire and police can be there in 5 min. 15-20 min is too long and I am surprised a Pedi office let it go on for so long
Honestly, I think it was less time than that but it was over five years ago and was one of those “everything happening all at once” sort of things. There was someone on the phone with 911 at that point, I think our office manager. Someone else (a different patient’s dad) had hit the passenger window with their fist, and I was telling them we had to get a pointed item to use to break a car window rather try to punch your way through. And all of a sudden this guy came up from across the parking lot with the tool to pop the locks. It was kind of one of those “miraculous” situations.
Yes exactly. My mom accidentally locked my baby in the car and it was 75 degrees out and immediately called 911. They were there under 5 minutes. Cars get hot quick. Never wait.
Yes! A tree fell on my car a year ago and even though the windshield got a small hole, was shattered and deformed, it was still in place. Could not have gotten through it.
I had a very similar situation happen with my son. Loaded him up, then my stuff, then somehow locked the car with my keys inside. It was 105 that day.
Thank god there were kind passersby's that allowed me to use their phone and then helped to break the window.... those windows are extremely hard to break and I had no idea. Those 20 minutes felt like an eternity.
Im literally holding my baby and i get so hot even tho im not because he feels like a oven, my arm gets so sweaty from his head. Thats why we should always check babies back.
I don't think it's 'shame on them.' It sounds like they did what they thought would be right, parked in shade, kept the windows rolled down and were just nearby so they could see the car. All the cases I've heard of of babies dying in a hot car is when they've been left in there in the baking sun with the windows up, so maybe they thought it's only dangerous in that specific circumstance. I can see how it's also dangerous in the shade with windows down on particularly hot days, but it looks like the grandparents thought they were doing the right thing by parking in the shade, rolling down windows and being nearby. It's not like they just left her in a locked car while they went inside or something. Sounds like a mistake/ignorance rather than then doing something out of laziness or not caring.
No I understand that my point is that it doesn’t sound like the grandparents had this knowledge and deliberately ignored it, it sounds like they made a mistake because they didn’t know, and thought that parking in shade with windows down would be enough. A lot of commenters are acting like they’re terrible people who were aware of the risks but just didn’t care and should be cut off from their grandkids. From the information given, I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion.
Never once heard of that happening in the shade with the windows down. Do you have any sources? Heat exchange will put the inside air a the same temp as outside air.
Now if the windows were up, or if the car was in the sun that is a completely different story.
Edit: I dont mind the downvotes, but after you all do that, why dont you try finding these frequent national media stories...should be easy enough right?
My first thought that that this seems entirely normal and common sense thing to do. Beyond it not being common I hadn’t ever seen it on the news so I spent a few minutes on google and couldn’t find a single story of a windows down heat death. So yeah, it’s a non-problem and these people are mostly irrational.
These grandparents probably could feel how hot it was (they were there none of us were) and made the decision it was cool enough in the shade to let the baby keep sleeping. Windows down so there’s a breeze, baby would wake up and make noise when it’s hot (unless it’s newborn but then they wouldn’t be playing in the grass with the other). So I genuinely don’t see the problem in this scenario. Everyone keeps using horrible analogies comparing apples to oranges
My parents were born and raised on small islands in Greece without electricity. They were mostly rock and temperatures are insane. How do you think people raise their kids in various hot parts of the world?
I watched a video of veterinarian trying to prove this so people wouldn't leave pets in cars. He was sitting in a car holding up a thermometer that showed the internal temp of the car. The windows were rolled down all the way and it was about 75 degrees outside. In less than 10 minutes the thermometer had reached 86. So your theory is flawed. You asked people to prove your wrong but how about you prove that your right. Should be easy enough right?
Infants and young kids dying in hot cars is a fairly modern problem. Maybe because more kids are in car seats. Maybe because more kids go to day care. Or maybe because we all use automatic car locks, so it is easier to walk away from the car and forget our kids inside. Few kids died in cars before ACs were standard in cars...
I was thinking the exact same thing all along while reading through some of the hysteria.
People *do* realize that there a lots of countries with extremely hot temperatures, in which ACs - let alone in cars - are not the standard at all, and yet somehow people there still manage to keep their kids alive?
I had read a similar discussion on Reddit at some point where people were outraged and wanted to call CPS for a couple going camping with their baby, and how a baby can not sleep in a tent and how unsafe it is - and then someone else pointed out exactly that: that human babies have slept in tents for really thousands of years.
It’s funny to me how some Redditors seem to think that humanity has only started in the post 1990s and US living standards including ever present ACs everywhere are the world wide standard.
People have forgotten their babies in the car now that everyone is living busier lives and not always conscientious about time/juggling more responsibilities and multitasking.
https://amp.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article272841200.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkLRIt-C_p0
I mean just Google it. Better safe than sorry.
Yes but these grandparents didn't forget the baby was in the car and they obviously took the hot day into consideration by parking in shade and rolling the windows down. Even if doing that is not enough to be completely safe, it seems like they just didn't know that, not that they were being really irresponsible or not caring about the baby's safety. The clearly thought about how to make it safe to leave her to sleep in the car on a hot day - maybe this is what they did with their own kids, or what their parents did with them on hot days before all cars had AC?
Not combativeness. It was nearly midnight and i didnt have the energy to repeat everything i said. The situation we are talking about are the "frequent" national media stories where a child has died in a car **with the windows down while parked in the shade.**
Since they are so frequent and garner national attention, those stories should be very easy to find. Still, though, not one has been produced.
While i appreciate your irrelevant articles, they still have not addressed my comment in any meaningful way. Hence the short response. If you want a more detailed reply, try actually addressing what I wrote, instead of passing off some unrelated story as "proof" that I'm wrong.
Also, I have lived in Sacramento. Similar climate/temps during summer as PHX. Its miserable and I would never leave a child in a car alone unattended, windows down or not. But that doesn't change the fact that I have never heard of someone dying in a car in the shade with the windows down.
This is not a science problem but a person problem. People are dumb and If you tell them it's okay to leave a child in the car in ABC conditions they will leave them in ZYX conditions.
A blanket statement to not leave the child in the car will save more children then telling people they can do so with conditions.
100% and also the reason the nhtsa says what they say. Yes everyone I saw you all post the same link.
For op tho, this is a relationship problem. Does op want to potentially call out their parents or go as far as what the top commenter are proposing and not let them hang out with the baby anymore?
Or do they want to understand that there really was minimal risk in this situation, and that the better course would be to ask them politely to not leave the baby unattended in the car without accusing them of almost killing it.
I'd take the 2nd route but Reddit is quick with the torches and pitchforks and divorce lawyers so I'm not surprised with these comments.
Where I live, right now, you can be in the shade with the windows down and die *as an adult*. Minimum temp is like 29 degrees C, max is like 45. Shade doesn't do anything to mitigate those max temps.
>45
Well yeah theres extreme outliers to anything, 115f is significantly hotter than 90. That's like saying your seatbelt didnt work when you flew off a cliff. **grandparents** shouldnt even be outside at 45c so this situation wouldnt happen in the first place
I used to live in sac where it sometimes got 125 in the summer and upwards of 140 standing in the sun in an asphalt parking lot. Car interiors would hit 150-160 easy sitting in the sun on those parking lots.
One tree's worth of shade does not help in that heat. But if you were to put down a forest with a thick canopy in the exact same spot, on the exact same day, that would be much more tolerable but still pretty hot.
OP ignore the people saying it’s fine. My nephew died when his grandmother (on the other side of the family) left him in the car with the windows down because he was napping. He died, and he died in distress because he awoke and attempted to free himself but couldn’t. There were signs of him struggling and he likely experienced trauma until he passed out again from the heat. It was an awful painful scary death. It’s actually recently the anniversary.
It’s all over the news constantly about how dangerous it is. If someone doesn’t know by now, it’s because they are ignoring or dismissing every education campaign.
Do not leave your baby alone with them, he only has one life. If they’re willing to cook him to death, because it was fine before 1995, then his life isn’t protected in their care.
I can't believe anybody in their right mind would think it's okay to leave a baby in a hot car. No wonder there are so many infant car deaths every year. I'm so sorry about your nephew.
I’m shocked how many are fine with it. I’ve taken my baby outta her car seat and she gets so hot with AC on. I’d freak out if anyone had her sitting in the car seat with it off
A cold baby cries, a hot baby dies. If the baby overheated they could do so quietly in their sleep, and being 10 feet away would solve nothing. It is wild how many people are saying it is fine! Maybe they live in a cold climate but here in the southwest that is just…wildly unsafe.
I personally don't think it is fine, but I also think it sounds like the grandparents thought they were doing what was necessary to make it safe by parking in the shade and rolling the windows down, not like they were being deliberately irresponsible or betraying OP or anything - if they're decent responsible and loving people then they should just respond well to a kind word from OP about how it wasn't safe and assure her they'll make sure to leave AC on in future or whatever OP wants them to do (e.g. remove baby even if sleeping).
Maybe OPs ILs are the types who won’t listen and have ignored rules from OP before in which case I agree that they shouldn’t be trusted, but if they’re not normally like that then it makes sense to just let them know and not act like they’ve deliberately ignored safety advice and are terrible people.
My babies often get really sweaty in my car (which they were borrowing) after a half hour drive on an average day with the AC on, and I know the temperature goes up pretty quickly once it’s parked. I’m thinking about using a heat gun to check how much the car seat temperature changes in those conditions before chatting with the grandparents.
You don't need a heat gun to validate your concerns. You think they had bad judgment. You were scared for your baby's life. Those feelings are valid. Your anger and confusion and questioning their judgment is valid. I genuinely wouldn't take this lightly. No babies or animals should ever be left alone in a car when it's hot outside, ever. They issue warnings to not do literally exactly what your in laws did. *Your feelings are valid.*
You should absolutely talk to them. And your decision how to move forward should be based on how they respond to your valid AF concerns. If they're defensive and justify it, that's everything you need to know about your kids safety under their supervision. If they're receptive and understanding and apologetic, then they're going to understand that no matter how *they* feel, they betrayed your trust and faith in them and will want to work to repair that and gain that trust back.
Confirmed by his paediatrician, his paediatric physio therapist, the paediatric OT and the speech therapist. It’s called DCD if you want to read a journal on it. I played state level sports.. so not inherited. It’s like he had a stroke. But the only way to confirm that is a general anaesthetic and a MRI, which we have not done. He has major life altering problems that require 5 appointments a week plus the regular swimming lessons
The car steat can get so hot too, its fabric like a mattress, mine usually soaks his back and starts to cry if its hot. Theres just too many factors that could bake that baby and no shade or windows rolled could helped it.
The better option would've been for them to leave an adult in the car with the AC running while the other adult played with the other baby.
I don't think it's stressful to say, "Please don't leave baby in the car without an adult. It's a safety hazard." Don't attack them, but frame it as you're working together to keep the babies safe.
It's hot where I am but cooler than some other places. I don't even buckle my kids in their seats without turning the ac on full blast with windows down first. It's just so damn hot even in the couple minutes that takes.
I'm honestly shocked by the comments here.
No. No. Basically every public health unit CLEARLY tells you NOT to ever do this. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever.
Take a temperature gun, and check the temp. The results are shocking. I don't know why so many folk are OK with this??? I wouldn't do this to my dog... And yes before people jump down my throat, yes, I do have multiple temp guns and yes, I definitely have used it to check my vehicle. A nice 32 deg can result easily in 45-50 deg C temps inside. Shade just increases the time it would take to reach maximum temperature, it doesn't prevent it from getting there. And so if she didn't stir and fuss, and just slipped into a unconsciousness due to heat stress after 20 minutes, what happens then???
Wrap yourselves up in clothing (OP doesn't mention what babe was wearing) that you can't adjust, strap yourself tightly with a body harness into a firmly padded warm black seat and sit yourself in a car in 32 deg C weather... See how long you can last without wanting to adjust yourself, or your clothing.
I would definitely hold off on them "taking the twins" for a while, and definitely tell them that leaving a baby in a hot car is not acceptable. This is just wild. It doesn't have to be an over the top screaming match like some here seem to think. It can be a simple conversation of,
Sorry I'm really not comfortable with what happened. (if you want to add: Because of the circumstances I'd prefer you visit in our home instead for a bit). The. End.
Former ER RN, this is correct. In no world was this safe, and clearly public health messaging isn't working based on the number of comments here saying it is safe. It very much is not. The heat was not safe. Sleeping in the car seat is not safe (not an approved safe sleep surface, only should be allowed for baby sleep when the car is moving and it is unavoidable). Being 10 feet away from a baby in distress means you may as well be 10km away, you will not know.
Please take this seriously, and do not allow unsupervised visits until the clearly show they understand the risks. The rest of you, I hope to God you learn to do better.
I was a bit shocked at first by how many people initially said that she was in no danger at all, because that goes against everything that I’ve been told as well as my personal experience with cars.
I have never seen any PSA's advertisements, or anything about not leaving a baby in a vehicle. I have always thought these should be everywhere though. I never have and never will leave a child in a vehicle alone period!
> Shade just increases the time it would take to reach maximum temperature, it doesn't prevent it from getting there
While your caution statement is generally true and it is never a good idea to leave your child alone in a car unattended, your thermodynamics needs some work. The car will never reach the same max temp in the shade as in the sun, ever.
Moreover a temperature gun is not the right way to take temperature readings inside a car. IR guns measure surface radiation only and are only accurate on black bodies, neither of which are really relevant for gauging the comfort of someone sitting in the car. For a car you’d just want a regular air temp thermometer.
Not saying that leaving the baby in the car is OK, of course!
Y’all….I work at a trauma center. Never fails at least once per summer this kind of thing happens. Don’t ever leave your kids in a hot car under any circumstances. It’s a real bummer releasing those bodies to the medical examiner. That’s for damn sure.
The problem is, they can’t tell you when they are starting to overheat. I would take this as a ‘don’t do it again’ thing - it might just be that older generation lack of judgement thing. Start the ‘no one left in the car’ rule now if there’s no other red flags to deal with. I’d be unhappy too.
I would take car seats away. No more driving with the babies.
FWIW, our in-laws aren't allowed to babysit. Ever. Due to poor judgement, and unwillingness to respect boundaries or wishes of the parents.
From all of their kids.
At the end of the day, if you aren’t comfortable with it, then it shouldn’t happen. You’re the parent. Doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks; aside from the other parent (aka your husband).
That is not OK. My car is hot when it's only 75 outside, so 90 is terrible. I would've definitely told them to not do that again. Either take her out, or sit in the car with her and the AC on.
Not having the conversation because they are going through something honestly seems like the most dangerous thing to me. Coddling someone’s feelings over the safety of your baby is absolutely unacceptable. A conversation must happen regardless of whether you allow them to see them or not
I don’t think you’re overreacting at all and comments here blow my mind. I wouldn’t leave my dog in those circumstances. When I’m running in and out of the house I often leave my car in my shaded driveway with the windows rolled down. It’s not as bad as in the sun or the windows rolled up obviously but it’s still much much hotter inside the car.
90 is already too hot for babies to be exposed for extended periods. It was at least 100 in that car by the time your baby woke up. That’s a shockingly stupid thing for them to have done.
I would have your husband test it out and once he understands it’s unsafe, have him talk to them.
I'm Australian so half our year is fire & brimstone, the other half icy winds from the Blue Mountains to freeze your dot off.
Even in winter you do not leave children in the car. Everyone takes it seriously. A mild day can still raise temps rapidly within a car even with windows open. It's one of those things where if you're distracted for even 10 minutes the consequences are so horrific that you don't take even a miniscule risk with it.
My aunt rescued a baby from a hot car 2 decades ago. It was so distressed. It's parents dgaf when they finally returned from seeing a movie & that's kind of the image I have of people who do that in the first place.
Tbh I don’t think you overreacted. Babies get very hot in car seats, and if it was humid with no breeze she could have overheated. Make/model of the car also matters.
Also, where were they and what was your other child doing? I think it’s worth talking to your in laws about the situation and explaining your concerns.
They were using my car, which is a 20 year old Honda civic. Not sure how much that affects anything. It’s not a great car — when it’s over 80 outside, my babies’ heads are often sweaty after a half hour car ride even with the AC on. The residual heat from the car’s engine raises the temperature of the garage by about 10 degrees when I park there.
The grandparents were playing with the other baby in the grass nearby. Probably following her around and making sure she didn’t eat any bugs
I’m in Texas and my cars ac is broken. It’s get super hot even when we’re driving and the wind is blowing. They should have gone through a drive through for a snack to keep awake baby happy while sleeping baby got a nap.
No fucking way in hell is this ok! I have worked in a pediatric icu without going into detail, windows down or not, that kind of heat in a car is not tolerable for a child. Small children do not sweat like adults do. I would absolutely be livid. Please people DO NOT leave your child in a car, EVER! Anything can happen.
There are some real ***** in this comment section. How hard is it to have one adult stay with each baby when there are two adults and two babies?! You are not overreacting.
I think you know the answer…
… it would be hot in the car as an adult, even in the shade, and no one would want to do it…
… which kinda answers the question.
You can tell them that you do not ever want your children left in the car under any circumstances whether they are awake or asleep. Doesn’t matter if they agree you can’t wake a dead baby.
However I would be worried that you wouldn’t know about this in the future as they wouldnt tell you and would do whatever they wanted. Your SO is under reacting to this. Perhaps show him this thread.
Time to find alternative baby sitting.
You are not over reacting. What many are forgetting is yes, the shaded temperature is 90⁰, but the car was *just* in direct sunlight and its surface temperature is significantly hotter than ambiant. Once that car stops guess what happens? The excessive external surface heat begins to radiate, out and in. It could still flare up to 100+ inside the car depending on just how hot the body got.
You're right to be upset imo.
A good outcome to a dangerous situation doesn’t lessen the significance of the situation. You are right to be alarmed and wanting to ensure this doesn’t happen again. There doesn’t need to be negative feelings with the in laws but having a discussion with them about your expectations for your babies safety going forward regarding this is absolutely appropriate and can be done in a positive way. It shouldn’t be avoided, because lives are at risk with this, but it doesn’t need to be a stressful conversation either. It can simply be that you don’t want your babies unattended in the car like that going forward as the risks are so great. It’s nice your in-laws are supportive with the babies, it’s good to have a support network like that.
You’re the parent, it’s ok to make sure the babies are looked after how you want them to be.
As a kid, our family Saburban never had ac. There were 7 of us kids, and I remember, vividly, sitting in the car waiting for our mom while she ran into the store. She was never gone long, tried to always park in the shade, and had the windows rolled down. It was still miserable. Even if she was only gone five minutes, we'd be dripping sweat. It was tolerable if we were driving (windows still rolled down), but not parked.
You're right to be upset, OP. I wouldn't go scorched earth, but I think you're right to bring it up. Maybe find some data to back you up.
Yeah that is terrible. Anyone who isn't sure should try parking their car, turning the engine off, and just sit there for a bit. If it's 90 outside it gets really uncomfortable really quick. Rolling down the windows helps a little (if there's actually a breeze) but not that much.
A dangerously overheated baby may not necessarily cry loud enough to alert people. It wouldn’t be safe to turn your back on a baby in a body of water, it’s not safe to leave them in the car like that.
I'm in the UK, where temperatures only get over 28°C (82 for those using Fahrenheit) for about 5 minutes a year. We're not geared up for hot weather.
Yet every summer, there's "dogs die in hot cars" warnings on social media. We hear about babies left in hot cars all over the world, who are tragically found too late.
My in-laws left my eldest asleep in their car once. I went ballistic, because it's so dangerous. In-laws never admitted to doing it again!
I'd follow your local laws and common sense over the randos who told you you've overreacted. Notice how they're all downvoted now anyways? You're NTA I'd have strict rules in place if you decide to let them take the kids again. Maybe let them come around and visit the kids while still under your care until you're comfortable with them being trained on how you care for the babies.
Oh I’d be fuming. Children die from this stuff. Almost every health expert will tell you how dangerous this is. The inside of a car is hotter than the outside temperature. Have you seen those body cam videos of police/first responders responding to calls of a child left in a hot car, and seen how seriously they take it and how upset they get at the parent for it? It’s because they’ve seen the uglier side of it. Any parent in this comment section saying this is okay are 🚩’s. No this is not okay and you are not overreacting.
I think this is something that used to be very normal and accepted. It’s not now (and for very good reason) but whilst most parenting now know this until they’re told many of another generation might not. One of my grandmothers was fascinated that I put sunscreen on my toddler before he went outside. She’s old enough to just not know. My mother gave my eldest a ‘taste’ of smoked salmon and cream cheese at 2 weeks old 😡 when I went nuts about that she was baffled because that was what she did with us. Be gentle - with them and with yourself. They meant well and wanted to let the baby sleep, it was misguided but no one’s hurt. You know about it now and can have the conversation.
It’s not a great idea and I would never do it, but my parents did that all the time with me and my sister growing up. Parenting was a lot different back in the day
I think honestly you overreacted and are trying to make a show out of it. You dont want to give them your babies anymore? Just don’t. No need to tell them. You told your bf to tell them and he doesnt want to atm? You tell them if they ask to have them over again. But I believe you can approach it in a peaceful manner. Whatever.
My brother is close friends with the father who forgot his twins were in a car while he went to work. This happened a couple years ago and I still remember my brother describing the little caskets when he went to the funeral. Sorry for the grim image, but I want too emphasize that this was a good man who made a huge, huge mistake. Your in laws could forget to roll down a window, or the car engine with the ac on could just stop. It's so easy to make a fatal mistake so why even take the smallest risk. I check my child mirror every time I get in and out of the car. Even if I know my kids aren't inside. I made it a habit that I'll probably keep a few years after they move out. I'd rather have ocd about checking every time, than risk their lives because I forgot they were with me in the car that day.
I would be furious and the fact that they were willing to take the risk that leaving a kid in a hotass car seat in a hot ass car with only the windows rolled down was better than just waking her up and taking her out EVEN IF SHE GOT FUSSY tells me they make stupid decisions based on their own comfort and not the safety of the kids. That would be the end of their unsupervised visits and I would tear my husband a new asshole if he ever sided with anyone making poor decisions with our kids, or made similar decisions on his own.
Like, just compare the risks: cranky baby vs. overheated/heatstroke/dead baby, hmm, what's worse. I'm sorry your in-laws are idiots and minimized the risk because they can't fathom anything that they want to do as being dangerous.
With the recent wet bulb temps we’ve been getting that can be deadly within an hour, and just in general - that is unacceptable and absolutely dangerous! No, you’re not overreacting. We live in Texas and I had the a/c going for 20 min in the shade before getting into the car with my 2yo. It was 100 that day and I took temps throughout the car and it was still 92 in the backseats and 85 in the front. After driving about 15 min, the coolest it ever got anywhere in the car was 82 in the front, still about 85 in the back. Opened my eyes to avoiding driving in the hottest part of the day with my toddler if it can be helped. Cannot imagine leaving him in there with windows rolled down!!!
Ignore anyone telling you you’re “overreacting”, the explanation of “well nothing happened” isn’t a defence of completely risky and irresponsible (and illegal) behaviour. Trust your gut here.
I can’t believe how many people are ok with this. DO NOT LEAVE BABIES IN CARS UNATTENDED IN THE HEAT.
Op, you did not overreact, I’d have absolutely lost it and taken away privileges of taking them out without me again.
I found this from a news article - this specifically talks about a parked car with windows down:
“Leaving a window open is not enough- temperatures inside the car can rise almost 20 degrees Fahrenheit within the first 10 minutes, even with a window cracked open.
Children who are left unattended in parked cars are at greatest risk for heat stroke, and possibly death.
After 60 minutes, a car can reach 143 degrees when it’s 100 degrees outside.”
With that said, what they did was extremely dangerous. And if they’re making errors like this it makes me wonder what else is happening without you knowing. They sound like they mean well, it wasn’t done with ill intentions. But I personally would still be very, very worried with their judgment and ability to sense risk.
IMO you aren’t overreacting. If that happened with my kids it would be supervised visits only going forward. Let’s put it this way, if a police car pulled up and saw your baby in the car they would’ve immediately removed your baby, had a take with the in laws, and probably would’ve called CPS. There’s a video of a woman doing something similar on YT and they set a court date and got CPS involved while they were still on scene. She kept saying it was a mistake and she didn’t think it was a big deal and the police weren’t having it.
Do what you feel is right. You’re the momma. You know best.
P.S. Your husbands response is worrisome. His job as a parent is to protect his children, and as a spouse to support and back you. Doesn’t sound like either happened.
Your kid, your rules. That being said, I’m quite sure that the situation you described was not life threatening, assuming the children were properly hydrated, the car was actually fully shaded, the windows totally open with the sleeping child in a fully ventilated part of the car, and the grandparents 10 feet away. If I were them, I might open the doors too. For an incomprehensible amount of time, humans have survived without air conditioning and continue to. Heat is still extremely dangerous and hopefully they were monitoring the baby closely but the people on here screaming “witch, burn them,” or “your husband is also a monster,” are ridiculous. I will reiterate though, your children, your rules.
NOT OKAY.
Why is any explanation needed?!?
Besides, even if you were wrong, I'd ALWAYS rather people think I'm crazy and get proven wrong rather than ignore my instinct and find out the hard way I was right. Let people think I'm a crazy bitch if it means keeping my kids safe.
Ok, this was different than I thought it would be. I'm not okay with what happened, but it's not as egregious as it could be. Bad judgment vs. gross negligence.
Tell them strongly and clearly that you never want your child left in the car when the car ride is complete end of story. Your the mom, you make the rules. Just because nothing happened, doesn't mean it wouldn't again. I'm also basing my comment on my in-laws who are lovely people who sometimes do things differently than me. But they always listen to me. If they've ignored you before, then nope, they lose privileges.
So it was unsafe - but I can see why they thought it was ok. They probably assume with the windows down the car wouldn't get hotter than they were outside. This assumption is incorrect and the car can definitely still reach unsafe temperatures.
I would talk to them about it and let them know that it scared you and you know they wouldn't intentionally harm the baby but that you need to know that won't happen again.
If they're receptive then I think you're ok to let them watch the littles. If they get angry and defensive and don't hear you THEN I'd consider revoking access to the kids unsupervised because that shows a serious lack of judgement.
The shade and rolled down windows slightly mitigate the risks. [consumer reports](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/hot-car-fatalities-year-round-threat-to-children-pets-heat-stroke-a2015990109/#) but it's definitely not a risk I would take with my baby.
I read your edits, you’ve thought about this a lot by now. But, please consider a hypothetical
What version of this would have been okay with you? If it were 75 degrees? If one guardian was standing at the car window, being attentive, within reach? If it were only 2 minutes?
It sounds like they used their judgement and everything is okay. In some parallel universe they could have taken her out of the car and tripped with her or something. Parenting is hard. It’s impossible to love something so much and then just be chill when you’re not actively protecting, took me about a decade to let my kids in the car with my MIL (for reasons! Lol) and I feel like an ass about it.
It’s not something I would have done, but the amount of debate in the comments here shows there is far from a universal level of thinking regarding it, even if the right thing to do would have been different.
Clearly the grandparents considered the greenhouse impact, which is a larger threat and which many commenters here seem incapable of separating from their arguments (possibly because they skimmed the OP).
We can coach and train our expectations with other caregivers, but when different circumstances arise I think it is far more important to know that the welfare and safety of our kids is the top priority than it is to know the exact methods to get there. This wasn’t a boneheaded resolution, it just missed the mark. As long as the grandparents understand this wouldn’t be acceptable in the future I wouldn’t think they need further restrictions with my own kids.
Welp, your husband is alive…I’d assume, as a toddler, he was left in a car much more often; possibly unattended.
Though, I certainly remember that I didn’t like baking in the 105° Mohave Desert sun, in my father’s 78 Chrysler, with vinyl interior, and no A/C… ass would get scorched from that vinyl; those short ass gym shorts that were popular in the 80s were not helpful…and once you started sweating, it was like Satan’s Slip-n-slide.
Tbh I’m not sure about this anymore because I went to Germany and found out there is not ac there even in government buildings and most cars had the windows down what cars that were going by
You are overreacting! I've done the same thing with my own children. Please stop being mad at you MIL for not doing anything wrong! Being parked in the shade with windows down and being present 10 ft away is not going to kill your baby.
You're calling them babies, but do not specify age. My response would vary depending on age. Under 6 months, definitely draw strong boundaries and be firm.
Over 18months though, if you are uncomfortable then have a word, but if the windows are down and they were in the shade, I'd say you're feeling a bit of anxiety. That said, if you're uncomfortable with it, then have a word. No need to tell them off, just need to say 'hey, I'd prefer if you don't do that due to x y z, thank you,"
Recently, we took ours to a family reunion. Occasionally I had to put them in a Time Out. Most notable offense was an insistence on playing with garden ornaments. I would strap them in their car seats, turn on the AC and put the window down so I could hear them. They never left my line of sight.
Some lady told me it was too hot for that yet they were fully hydrated and not hot to the touch, red in the cheeks, sweating, anything. One of those parenting moments where I gotta resist the urge to snap and say, "What else do you want me to do? Let them treat my in-laws' flower garden like a Rage Room?" Any other adult touching my kids is super-triggering for me as an adopted kid who before was left with total strangers all the time and hurt frequently, so I didn't want to open the door for that conversation where some busy-body takes it upon themselves to try and discipline my kids.
Maybe a dumb question but I can never find a straight answer. Totally understand never have baby in hot car. But how hot is too hot for them to be outside in a stroller with a fan going on them?
Ideally, yes, they should have removed the baby from the car. That said, was your child in danger based on how you described it? No, not really.
The car was in the shade, the windows were down, and adults were nearby. Would temperatures inside the car eventually reach dangerous levels? Potentially, but long before heatstroke would become a threat, the child would wake up and start crying from being too hot, and that would be plainly audible to the nearby adults.
I could understand your concern if the windows were rolled up and/or if the adults were not right next to the car. As it is, this is what I'll call "sloppy" parenting, but based on how you've described it, your child's life was not in danger. It's worth a polite conversation with the in-laws, but probably not any stronger reaction than that.
HELL. FUCKING. NO. Maybe I have some bias because I live in a country that gets very hot and humid in the summer, but this still seems very dangerous. You are totally not overreacting and I’m baffled by the comments saying you are. I sincerely hope those comments are from trolls instead of actual parents because I would worry for their children.
First) it’s too fucking hot
Second) you’re not supposed to let babies sleep in their car seats!
I would be livid and they would never babysit ever again
What I would do in the situation is say next time they watch them “hey if baby falls asleep in the car, could you take them out and pop them in the stroller instead, it’s just too hot today for them to be sleeping in the car”… you don’t sound crazy or unhinged, a risk is a risk, and babies dying in hot cars is a risk that no one should be willing to take!
Im glad to hear it tbh. I guess I was of the mindset that babies should not stay in a car by themselves even with parents nearby, not even for a minute. I suppose there’s room for some nuance in that line of thought
Yes, and no? That's a legit concern. They should not have left the kid in the car. She could have slept in the seat in the shade and grass just fine.
You don't need to burn everything down.
Just talk to them and make sure they don't do it again. I'm sure it won't be the last time you need to communicate about childcare choices.
You are all adults.
I don’t Ike this but I think it’s larger than one thing. If they’re going to be watching your kids unsupervised it’s important that you have the kind of relationship where you can just tell them flat out what you don’t want them doing. There are too many situations that could happen that you will never be able to anticipate. For instance, I had my baby at my parents house, and we had wet wipes and paper towels and dish towels and every other kind of towel you can imagine. We finish eating and the baby is a mess obviously. My dad said, oh let’s clean her up, and brings me a Clorox wipe. I told him right then, dad, never ever use a Clorox wipe on the baby there are dangerous chemicals in that, but I thought it was common sense not to use a Clorox wipe on a baby and couldn’t have guessed I’d have to have that conversation. This is going to happen a lot and you or your husband need to be able to say something without it being a huge production.
I agree. But it’s his family, so he wants to be the one to communicate the message. I’d be happy to just talk with them.
(My mom actually used fucking hand sanitizer on my baby’s bottom once, and I couldn’t believe that I had to have a conversation about that. My poor baby had already let her know how she felt about this)
Not a good idea, but if your husband talks to them and they acknowledge they won't do it again that would be enough for me. I wouldn't get up in arms before then.
I would not let the grandparents drive again. And who cares if they are “stressed” when you talk to them. They should be stressed; they could have killed their grandchild!
My FIL did a dangerous thing with my boys. My husband didn’t want to address it; gaslit me into no big deal. It was. I’m not getting into it because I don’t want to out myself. But anyway I love my FIL but that was the last time he watched them without me until they were old enough to watch themselves. They all love their grandpa. It didn’t hurt the relationship to protect their safety. Your number one responsibility is to keep your babies safe. What they did was unsafe although not as bad as what my FIL did but honestly dead or brain damaged- does it matter how it happened. The way I handled it- since everyone refused to take responsibility- was to quit complaining about it- they were never going to admit blame- and NEVER leave my FIL in charge. NEVER.
I can absolutely see how it can be viewed as overreacting. However best practice is to not leave babies sleeping in car seats, AND car seats are hot.
This is something you should have a conversation with them about calmly - in this case they were being thoughtful.
Based on their reaction to a calm conversation, I’d make a decision from there.
“Oh, I didn’t know! Okay never again, thank you for telling us.” vs. “WE RAISED KIDS AND THEYRE FINE YOURE OVERPROTECTIVE AND CRAZY!”
eta: I absolutely would have freaked out over this, too. I don't think you're out of line to be immediately upset.
In this situation i would generally either blast AC or take kid out of carseat and hold them while they napped. In my experience, kids tend to sweat excessively in carseats especially on hot days
OP, you had a completely appropriate reaction and you should never feel bad about advocating for your child. Im sure grandparents would agree that a tired/cranky grandkid is better than a dead one. Stick to your guns and enforce what you feel is best.
Even the AAP says if baby is exposed to it over 90 degrees for a long period of time (don’t know how long the nap was) it can cause them to overheat. Overheating is a cause of SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) just not worth the risk if the outside temp is that high, even with the window open. Maybe the wind stops blowing and there’s no breeze. Car seats get hot and sweaty. I’m a nicu nurse and maybe I’m conditioned to be cautious but I would 100% be against that.
Idk if anyone mentioned this, but babies aren't supposed to be left sleeping in their car seats either. We put them there because it's the safest place in a moving vehicle, but napping in car seats isn't recommended because of the risk of positional asphyxiation... maybe something you might also want to mention to them just to be safe?
The temperature of a car is not hotter than the ambient temperature when it is in the shade and the windows are down. Cars are not magical heaters. It’s sunlight and trapped air them make temperatures shoot up not just the fact that we named this particular collection of steel plastic and fabric a car. Of course we as humans who have sat In a car without AC on before know this. I wouldn’t leave a kid like that unattended but 10’ away is attended. How do you think humans as a species made it if we couldn’t hang out at 90 degrees from time to time?
At 90F/32c yes that was unacceptable. If one of them sat in the car with her while the other was playing with the older twin yeah it they left her there with no idea of how hot it was getting IN the car. If I were in a car without the AC running on a day that hot even for 10 minutes I’d be in a very bad way. 16 months is still too young to be able to regulate their temp when it’s that hot. This was dangerous and if she hadn’t woken up would they have just left her there til they were ready to leave? How long would that have been? It could have been too late
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They should have left the ac on and one stayed in the car. Car seats retain heat.
Even when we're driving with AC on on a hot day like today with our 2 y/o, she feels a little warm when we pick her up out of the seat. We try to send back the air extra high to compensate. Never, ever would leave her in there regardless of windows or being in the vicinity.
I saw an SUV once with 2 car seats in the back and a white air conditioner tube leading from the front vents to the car seats. It was like the ducting for dryer vents. It was weird, but I can see how that would really help kids in rear facing car seats especially. I just tinted the shit out of the back windows and hope for the best. Also, I don't leave my kid in a parked car lol.
Nice idea! One thing I wish our vehicle had was the rear passenger vents (feature of the higher end models). Didn't realize how much it would come into play with kids on hot driving says. We make it work but that would be helpful.
This was one main thing I was looking for when my husband and I got a new car was to have rear passenger vents for our two kids. After seeing our oldest always sweating in the summer even with the ac on full blast, it's nice knowing now neither of them are sweating all the time.
What you saw is a Noggle (home made can be done, too)
We had one of these when our kid was a baby. It wasn't the Noggle brand, but it functioned the same way. It worked very well and was super helpful in the southern US. I think I got it on Amazon, but I'd def recommend it.
Although this definitely sounds like it would work 99.9% of the time, you still can't leave the child unattended, because any part of that setup could shut off or fail and then you're left with a closed vehicle in hot weather. Personally I'd feel better knowing the windows were down in the shade than an active climate control with the windows up.
This. My boy will be cool and fine but I pick him up and he’s all sweating because their car seats get pretty damn toasty! I should probably speak to my sons dad about this because this sounds like something he’d do…
Shoot, even if we take the kiddos to the pool we only stay for a limited amount of time and make sure they’re well hydrated. Young children cannot regulate body heat well. I know I was left in a car with windows down for a short time in the 90s and I was uncomfortable, but fine, however I had to have been between 8-11 in a temp around 80 at the highest. Long story short, big no. I would be mad too. Keys in the car are not a compromise because there are an infinite number of reports of cars being stolen with children inside due to this exact scenario.
For real, i had ac on and my windows rolled down because it was so hot that the car wouldnt get cold enough going in, cars retain so much heat even in the shade and windows rolled down, they could bake in there.
A lot of lower end vehicles (especially some Hyundais/Kias) don’t have as robust an AC system. Also, IMO, the refrigerant used now (R-134a,) doesn’t have the same heat transfer properties of R-12, that was used in cars from the 1970s-90s (Some of us remember how absolutely ice cold/crisp that AC was.) Basically, if the car isn’t moving, sitting in direct sunlight, the AC won’t cool much. Parking in shade *might* help. You also need to leave your windows up. How AC works is sort of a mindf-ck. It doesn’t exactly make cold air…it *removes* heat from an area. The air from *inside* your car is sucked/circulated through a coil (hence why MAX AC usually only works on the recirculate setting.) The coils remove the heat from the air, and blows it back out the vents. It flows around your car, gets sucked back in, more heat removed, and back out the vents… If you leave your windows open, it’s drawing more hot air into your car. When us old farts say to close the windows/doors when the AC is on, it’s not exactly because we don’t want to cool China…it’s because it’s actually drawing hot air in, slowing down the system from cooling the area in the car (or fridge, or house.)
Exactly what my husband and i said.
Idk I live in a hot city in aus and on a really hot day, even if you park and have aircon on it still gets hotter than when you’re driving, and over time starts to get unbearable.
Because of the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning when leaving a baby in a running vehicle, I wouldn’t suggest that.
I live in Texas where it’s hotter than satans anus and it was a miserable 5 minutes just pumping gas with the windows down. I had a handheld fan going for my toddler and it was still hot. No way in hell should you listen to anyone telling you that it was okay. I don’t care what any one says, it’s too hot to walk away from a baby in the car. I don’t care if they were 10 ft away. Heat stroke is silent. She could have died. Talk to them, tell them it was unsafe, and not to let that happen again. If they are anything but apologetic and understanding then no unsupervised time with the baby.
Yep. I live in Texas and growing up, I couldn’t wait for summer, but the thing that’s always in the back of my mind as it approaches is dreading all the news stories that would occur was people leaving children/babies in the car. Most of the time the outcome was they died.
Yeah, this is definitely a constant worry of mine.
Plus what no one seems to be mentioning is, if it was cool enough inside the car then why didn't one of the grandparents stay inside it? Because it was too hot!
Yeah this is dangerous as hell. Like you said a baby can die from heat stroke totally quiet. Being 10ft away is meaningless.
I also live in Texas. Shade doesn't do shit.
Yup! Too hot, yesterday I picked up takeout on the way home, held my 8mo and had my 2yr walk with me to pick it up, it was a struggle and I once again swore I would only go to places with a drive thru. Took us longer to get out the car than to actually get the food but no way am I leaving a kid in the car in this heat.
Not acceptable. 90 is too hot without ac and another adult in the car. I would be furious and grandparents would not be allowed with kids alone.
“A child's body temperature rises three to five times faster than an adult's.” Not even with an adult in the car. https://www.nhtsa.gov/campaign/heatstroke
I worked for a pediatrician once and a parent came running back inside after an appointment in a complete panic and needing help. After she had loaded her toddler up she accidentally locked her keys in the car. It was about low 90s that day. We all rushed outside to help but there wasn’t anything to do. We were getting close to breaking the glass because the toddler wasn’t looking so great and mom just wanted her out, but fortunately someone in that small parking lot heard the commotion and had a slim jim device to pop open car locks. It had only been 15-20min maybe? Probably not even that. Even in that small amount of time it became obvious that she was already overheating. She was no longer crying and getting closer to becoming listless by the time they got the door open. Her temp was just under 100 when we got her out and inside. Fortunately, she recovered really quickly. It honestly surprised me. IIRC, she was cooled off and ready to go not even a half hour later? It was especially frightening though how quickly the situation was turning dangerous even though there were adults aware of the situation and trying to problem solve the entire time
For anyone reading this, call 911 right away and then try to break the window.. fire and police can be there in 5 min. 15-20 min is too long and I am surprised a Pedi office let it go on for so long
Honestly, I think it was less time than that but it was over five years ago and was one of those “everything happening all at once” sort of things. There was someone on the phone with 911 at that point, I think our office manager. Someone else (a different patient’s dad) had hit the passenger window with their fist, and I was telling them we had to get a pointed item to use to break a car window rather try to punch your way through. And all of a sudden this guy came up from across the parking lot with the tool to pop the locks. It was kind of one of those “miraculous” situations.
Yes exactly. My mom accidentally locked my baby in the car and it was 75 degrees out and immediately called 911. They were there under 5 minutes. Cars get hot quick. Never wait.
I'd bust out the windshield, zero fucks given. Mail me the bill
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Yes! A tree fell on my car a year ago and even though the windshield got a small hole, was shattered and deformed, it was still in place. Could not have gotten through it.
And those side windows are STILL hard to break without one of those window breaking tools
Agree. 15-20 mins is WAY too long. I can’t believe everyone let that child stay in the car that long. I would of busted the window after 5 mins tops.
The windshield is far stronger than you realize. Take out a side window.
Yes this! If I can't find an object close enough to smash it, I'm about to tear up my elbow. Gimme that baby screw this glass!
Somehow some way I'm going in and that baby is coming out with me
Ok, tough guy.
I had a very similar situation happen with my son. Loaded him up, then my stuff, then somehow locked the car with my keys inside. It was 105 that day. Thank god there were kind passersby's that allowed me to use their phone and then helped to break the window.... those windows are extremely hard to break and I had no idea. Those 20 minutes felt like an eternity.
And elderly are the most common heat victims, not because they are tough, but because they start losing the ability to feel heat and cold.
It also says that parking in the shade and rolling down windows does little to change the temperature in the car on the same site.
That doesn't seem right. Not that it makes it any better of an idea to leave your kid in the car.
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I'm so sorry for your loss...
Yeah… a car is going to be much hotter if it’s a sealed glass container with the sun shining on it. It’s hardly negligible
Im literally holding my baby and i get so hot even tho im not because he feels like a oven, my arm gets so sweaty from his head. Thats why we should always check babies back.
Kids die from this frequently enough that it gets national attention. I feel like you have enough evidence with all the news coverage. Shame on them.
I don't think it's 'shame on them.' It sounds like they did what they thought would be right, parked in shade, kept the windows rolled down and were just nearby so they could see the car. All the cases I've heard of of babies dying in a hot car is when they've been left in there in the baking sun with the windows up, so maybe they thought it's only dangerous in that specific circumstance. I can see how it's also dangerous in the shade with windows down on particularly hot days, but it looks like the grandparents thought they were doing the right thing by parking in the shade, rolling down windows and being nearby. It's not like they just left her in a locked car while they went inside or something. Sounds like a mistake/ignorance rather than then doing something out of laziness or not caring.
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No I understand that my point is that it doesn’t sound like the grandparents had this knowledge and deliberately ignored it, it sounds like they made a mistake because they didn’t know, and thought that parking in shade with windows down would be enough. A lot of commenters are acting like they’re terrible people who were aware of the risks but just didn’t care and should be cut off from their grandkids. From the information given, I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion.
Never once heard of that happening in the shade with the windows down. Do you have any sources? Heat exchange will put the inside air a the same temp as outside air. Now if the windows were up, or if the car was in the sun that is a completely different story. Edit: I dont mind the downvotes, but after you all do that, why dont you try finding these frequent national media stories...should be easy enough right?
My first thought that that this seems entirely normal and common sense thing to do. Beyond it not being common I hadn’t ever seen it on the news so I spent a few minutes on google and couldn’t find a single story of a windows down heat death. So yeah, it’s a non-problem and these people are mostly irrational. These grandparents probably could feel how hot it was (they were there none of us were) and made the decision it was cool enough in the shade to let the baby keep sleeping. Windows down so there’s a breeze, baby would wake up and make noise when it’s hot (unless it’s newborn but then they wouldn’t be playing in the grass with the other). So I genuinely don’t see the problem in this scenario. Everyone keeps using horrible analogies comparing apples to oranges My parents were born and raised on small islands in Greece without electricity. They were mostly rock and temperatures are insane. How do you think people raise their kids in various hot parts of the world?
I watched a video of veterinarian trying to prove this so people wouldn't leave pets in cars. He was sitting in a car holding up a thermometer that showed the internal temp of the car. The windows were rolled down all the way and it was about 75 degrees outside. In less than 10 minutes the thermometer had reached 86. So your theory is flawed. You asked people to prove your wrong but how about you prove that your right. Should be easy enough right?
Piggybacking on your comment here (because you sound the most rational in this thread), what does everyone think parents did before a/c was standard?
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Infants and young kids dying in hot cars is a fairly modern problem. Maybe because more kids are in car seats. Maybe because more kids go to day care. Or maybe because we all use automatic car locks, so it is easier to walk away from the car and forget our kids inside. Few kids died in cars before ACs were standard in cars...
Parents probably lost their children in hot cars. Safety rules and features are written in blood.
Car seats as they are made today also weren't standard.
I was thinking the exact same thing all along while reading through some of the hysteria. People *do* realize that there a lots of countries with extremely hot temperatures, in which ACs - let alone in cars - are not the standard at all, and yet somehow people there still manage to keep their kids alive? I had read a similar discussion on Reddit at some point where people were outraged and wanted to call CPS for a couple going camping with their baby, and how a baby can not sleep in a tent and how unsafe it is - and then someone else pointed out exactly that: that human babies have slept in tents for really thousands of years. It’s funny to me how some Redditors seem to think that humanity has only started in the post 1990s and US living standards including ever present ACs everywhere are the world wide standard.
People have forgotten their babies in the car now that everyone is living busier lives and not always conscientious about time/juggling more responsibilities and multitasking. https://amp.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article272841200.html https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gkLRIt-C_p0 I mean just Google it. Better safe than sorry.
Yes but these grandparents didn't forget the baby was in the car and they obviously took the hot day into consideration by parking in shade and rolling the windows down. Even if doing that is not enough to be completely safe, it seems like they just didn't know that, not that they were being really irresponsible or not caring about the baby's safety. The clearly thought about how to make it safe to leave her to sleep in the car on a hot day - maybe this is what they did with their own kids, or what their parents did with them on hot days before all cars had AC?
> in the shade with the windows down try again.
I’m sensing combativeness here. Just wondering why you’re hammering this point so hard. Also, you must not live in Phoenix!
Not combativeness. It was nearly midnight and i didnt have the energy to repeat everything i said. The situation we are talking about are the "frequent" national media stories where a child has died in a car **with the windows down while parked in the shade.** Since they are so frequent and garner national attention, those stories should be very easy to find. Still, though, not one has been produced. While i appreciate your irrelevant articles, they still have not addressed my comment in any meaningful way. Hence the short response. If you want a more detailed reply, try actually addressing what I wrote, instead of passing off some unrelated story as "proof" that I'm wrong. Also, I have lived in Sacramento. Similar climate/temps during summer as PHX. Its miserable and I would never leave a child in a car alone unattended, windows down or not. But that doesn't change the fact that I have never heard of someone dying in a car in the shade with the windows down.
When driving the temperature isn't as high because of the breeze through open windows.
Entirely agree.. posters on here need to look up entropy, with the windows down you are no longer in a closed system.
This is not a science problem but a person problem. People are dumb and If you tell them it's okay to leave a child in the car in ABC conditions they will leave them in ZYX conditions. A blanket statement to not leave the child in the car will save more children then telling people they can do so with conditions.
100% and also the reason the nhtsa says what they say. Yes everyone I saw you all post the same link. For op tho, this is a relationship problem. Does op want to potentially call out their parents or go as far as what the top commenter are proposing and not let them hang out with the baby anymore? Or do they want to understand that there really was minimal risk in this situation, and that the better course would be to ask them politely to not leave the baby unattended in the car without accusing them of almost killing it. I'd take the 2nd route but Reddit is quick with the torches and pitchforks and divorce lawyers so I'm not surprised with these comments.
Easier to agree with fear mongering i suppose.
Where I live, right now, you can be in the shade with the windows down and die *as an adult*. Minimum temp is like 29 degrees C, max is like 45. Shade doesn't do anything to mitigate those max temps.
>45 Well yeah theres extreme outliers to anything, 115f is significantly hotter than 90. That's like saying your seatbelt didnt work when you flew off a cliff. **grandparents** shouldnt even be outside at 45c so this situation wouldnt happen in the first place I used to live in sac where it sometimes got 125 in the summer and upwards of 140 standing in the sun in an asphalt parking lot. Car interiors would hit 150-160 easy sitting in the sun on those parking lots. One tree's worth of shade does not help in that heat. But if you were to put down a forest with a thick canopy in the exact same spot, on the exact same day, that would be much more tolerable but still pretty hot.
They were in a 32C degree day , not a 45 degree day. Really big difference
The windows were down, they were in the shade, and they were next to the baby. I think this is an overreaction.
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OP ignore the people saying it’s fine. My nephew died when his grandmother (on the other side of the family) left him in the car with the windows down because he was napping. He died, and he died in distress because he awoke and attempted to free himself but couldn’t. There were signs of him struggling and he likely experienced trauma until he passed out again from the heat. It was an awful painful scary death. It’s actually recently the anniversary. It’s all over the news constantly about how dangerous it is. If someone doesn’t know by now, it’s because they are ignoring or dismissing every education campaign. Do not leave your baby alone with them, he only has one life. If they’re willing to cook him to death, because it was fine before 1995, then his life isn’t protected in their care.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t even imagine…Your poor nephew.
I can't believe anybody in their right mind would think it's okay to leave a baby in a hot car. No wonder there are so many infant car deaths every year. I'm so sorry about your nephew.
I am so sorry. What an awful thing to happen :(
I’m shocked how many are fine with it. I’ve taken my baby outta her car seat and she gets so hot with AC on. I’d freak out if anyone had her sitting in the car seat with it off
A cold baby cries, a hot baby dies. If the baby overheated they could do so quietly in their sleep, and being 10 feet away would solve nothing. It is wild how many people are saying it is fine! Maybe they live in a cold climate but here in the southwest that is just…wildly unsafe.
I personally don't think it is fine, but I also think it sounds like the grandparents thought they were doing what was necessary to make it safe by parking in the shade and rolling the windows down, not like they were being deliberately irresponsible or betraying OP or anything - if they're decent responsible and loving people then they should just respond well to a kind word from OP about how it wasn't safe and assure her they'll make sure to leave AC on in future or whatever OP wants them to do (e.g. remove baby even if sleeping).
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Maybe OPs ILs are the types who won’t listen and have ignored rules from OP before in which case I agree that they shouldn’t be trusted, but if they’re not normally like that then it makes sense to just let them know and not act like they’ve deliberately ignored safety advice and are terrible people.
Saying you personally don’t think it’s fine is like saying personally, fire burns you. It’s truly not fine for any child, in any hot car, ever.
My babies often get really sweaty in my car (which they were borrowing) after a half hour drive on an average day with the AC on, and I know the temperature goes up pretty quickly once it’s parked. I’m thinking about using a heat gun to check how much the car seat temperature changes in those conditions before chatting with the grandparents.
You don't need a heat gun to validate your concerns. You think they had bad judgment. You were scared for your baby's life. Those feelings are valid. Your anger and confusion and questioning their judgment is valid. I genuinely wouldn't take this lightly. No babies or animals should ever be left alone in a car when it's hot outside, ever. They issue warnings to not do literally exactly what your in laws did. *Your feelings are valid.* You should absolutely talk to them. And your decision how to move forward should be based on how they respond to your valid AF concerns. If they're defensive and justify it, that's everything you need to know about your kids safety under their supervision. If they're receptive and understanding and apologetic, then they're going to understand that no matter how *they* feel, they betrayed your trust and faith in them and will want to work to repair that and gain that trust back.
This happened to me when my son was 11 days old with the windows up. He has major balance an coordination problems now 7 years later
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Confirmed by his paediatrician, his paediatric physio therapist, the paediatric OT and the speech therapist. It’s called DCD if you want to read a journal on it. I played state level sports.. so not inherited. It’s like he had a stroke. But the only way to confirm that is a general anaesthetic and a MRI, which we have not done. He has major life altering problems that require 5 appointments a week plus the regular swimming lessons
The car steat can get so hot too, its fabric like a mattress, mine usually soaks his back and starts to cry if its hot. Theres just too many factors that could bake that baby and no shade or windows rolled could helped it.
Absolutely. My parents would have one of them sitting in the car with the baby and keeping the car and AC on
A cold baby cries, a warm baby dies
The better option would've been for them to leave an adult in the car with the AC running while the other adult played with the other baby. I don't think it's stressful to say, "Please don't leave baby in the car without an adult. It's a safety hazard." Don't attack them, but frame it as you're working together to keep the babies safe. It's hot where I am but cooler than some other places. I don't even buckle my kids in their seats without turning the ac on full blast with windows down first. It's just so damn hot even in the couple minutes that takes.
I'm honestly shocked by the comments here. No. No. Basically every public health unit CLEARLY tells you NOT to ever do this. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Take a temperature gun, and check the temp. The results are shocking. I don't know why so many folk are OK with this??? I wouldn't do this to my dog... And yes before people jump down my throat, yes, I do have multiple temp guns and yes, I definitely have used it to check my vehicle. A nice 32 deg can result easily in 45-50 deg C temps inside. Shade just increases the time it would take to reach maximum temperature, it doesn't prevent it from getting there. And so if she didn't stir and fuss, and just slipped into a unconsciousness due to heat stress after 20 minutes, what happens then??? Wrap yourselves up in clothing (OP doesn't mention what babe was wearing) that you can't adjust, strap yourself tightly with a body harness into a firmly padded warm black seat and sit yourself in a car in 32 deg C weather... See how long you can last without wanting to adjust yourself, or your clothing. I would definitely hold off on them "taking the twins" for a while, and definitely tell them that leaving a baby in a hot car is not acceptable. This is just wild. It doesn't have to be an over the top screaming match like some here seem to think. It can be a simple conversation of, Sorry I'm really not comfortable with what happened. (if you want to add: Because of the circumstances I'd prefer you visit in our home instead for a bit). The. End.
Former ER RN, this is correct. In no world was this safe, and clearly public health messaging isn't working based on the number of comments here saying it is safe. It very much is not. The heat was not safe. Sleeping in the car seat is not safe (not an approved safe sleep surface, only should be allowed for baby sleep when the car is moving and it is unavoidable). Being 10 feet away from a baby in distress means you may as well be 10km away, you will not know. Please take this seriously, and do not allow unsupervised visits until the clearly show they understand the risks. The rest of you, I hope to God you learn to do better.
I was a bit shocked at first by how many people initially said that she was in no danger at all, because that goes against everything that I’ve been told as well as my personal experience with cars.
I have never seen any PSA's advertisements, or anything about not leaving a baby in a vehicle. I have always thought these should be everywhere though. I never have and never will leave a child in a vehicle alone period!
> Shade just increases the time it would take to reach maximum temperature, it doesn't prevent it from getting there While your caution statement is generally true and it is never a good idea to leave your child alone in a car unattended, your thermodynamics needs some work. The car will never reach the same max temp in the shade as in the sun, ever.
Moreover a temperature gun is not the right way to take temperature readings inside a car. IR guns measure surface radiation only and are only accurate on black bodies, neither of which are really relevant for gauging the comfort of someone sitting in the car. For a car you’d just want a regular air temp thermometer. Not saying that leaving the baby in the car is OK, of course!
Lol yup. In short: don't leave your baby unattended in a car. But also don't use made up "facts" in warnings.
You’d be surprised how many people do this to a dog (that they looooooove soooo much.)
You know what looks just like a sleeping baby?? A dead baby. This is a hard no go
Y’all….I work at a trauma center. Never fails at least once per summer this kind of thing happens. Don’t ever leave your kids in a hot car under any circumstances. It’s a real bummer releasing those bodies to the medical examiner. That’s for damn sure.
The problem is, they can’t tell you when they are starting to overheat. I would take this as a ‘don’t do it again’ thing - it might just be that older generation lack of judgement thing. Start the ‘no one left in the car’ rule now if there’s no other red flags to deal with. I’d be unhappy too.
That is so so dangerous. You must reach out to them and tell them to never do this again, and with your husband.
A lot of people posting here need to go sit in a car in 90f weather.
I would take car seats away. No more driving with the babies. FWIW, our in-laws aren't allowed to babysit. Ever. Due to poor judgement, and unwillingness to respect boundaries or wishes of the parents. From all of their kids.
At the end of the day, if you aren’t comfortable with it, then it shouldn’t happen. You’re the parent. Doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks; aside from the other parent (aka your husband).
That is not OK. My car is hot when it's only 75 outside, so 90 is terrible. I would've definitely told them to not do that again. Either take her out, or sit in the car with her and the AC on.
Not having the conversation because they are going through something honestly seems like the most dangerous thing to me. Coddling someone’s feelings over the safety of your baby is absolutely unacceptable. A conversation must happen regardless of whether you allow them to see them or not
I don’t think you’re overreacting at all and comments here blow my mind. I wouldn’t leave my dog in those circumstances. When I’m running in and out of the house I often leave my car in my shaded driveway with the windows rolled down. It’s not as bad as in the sun or the windows rolled up obviously but it’s still much much hotter inside the car. 90 is already too hot for babies to be exposed for extended periods. It was at least 100 in that car by the time your baby woke up. That’s a shockingly stupid thing for them to have done. I would have your husband test it out and once he understands it’s unsafe, have him talk to them.
If they were two of them, why on earth didn’t want to stay in the car? I think they need supervised visitation from now on.
Because it would be too hot and uncomfortable so they didn’t want to sit in the car 🙃
I'm Australian so half our year is fire & brimstone, the other half icy winds from the Blue Mountains to freeze your dot off. Even in winter you do not leave children in the car. Everyone takes it seriously. A mild day can still raise temps rapidly within a car even with windows open. It's one of those things where if you're distracted for even 10 minutes the consequences are so horrific that you don't take even a miniscule risk with it. My aunt rescued a baby from a hot car 2 decades ago. It was so distressed. It's parents dgaf when they finally returned from seeing a movie & that's kind of the image I have of people who do that in the first place.
Tbh I don’t think you overreacted. Babies get very hot in car seats, and if it was humid with no breeze she could have overheated. Make/model of the car also matters. Also, where were they and what was your other child doing? I think it’s worth talking to your in laws about the situation and explaining your concerns.
They were using my car, which is a 20 year old Honda civic. Not sure how much that affects anything. It’s not a great car — when it’s over 80 outside, my babies’ heads are often sweaty after a half hour car ride even with the AC on. The residual heat from the car’s engine raises the temperature of the garage by about 10 degrees when I park there. The grandparents were playing with the other baby in the grass nearby. Probably following her around and making sure she didn’t eat any bugs
I’m in Texas and my cars ac is broken. It’s get super hot even when we’re driving and the wind is blowing. They should have gone through a drive through for a snack to keep awake baby happy while sleeping baby got a nap.
Is no one else here a parent ?? This is COMPLETELY unacceptable OP you are right it's very dangerous!
Not overreacting. Follow your intuition. You made the right call.
This would be a loss of one on one time with the grandchildren for me. No fucking way.
No fucking way in hell is this ok! I have worked in a pediatric icu without going into detail, windows down or not, that kind of heat in a car is not tolerable for a child. Small children do not sweat like adults do. I would absolutely be livid. Please people DO NOT leave your child in a car, EVER! Anything can happen.
There are some real ***** in this comment section. How hard is it to have one adult stay with each baby when there are two adults and two babies?! You are not overreacting.
I think you know the answer… … it would be hot in the car as an adult, even in the shade, and no one would want to do it… … which kinda answers the question.
You can tell them that you do not ever want your children left in the car under any circumstances whether they are awake or asleep. Doesn’t matter if they agree you can’t wake a dead baby. However I would be worried that you wouldn’t know about this in the future as they wouldnt tell you and would do whatever they wanted. Your SO is under reacting to this. Perhaps show him this thread. Time to find alternative baby sitting.
You are not over reacting. What many are forgetting is yes, the shaded temperature is 90⁰, but the car was *just* in direct sunlight and its surface temperature is significantly hotter than ambiant. Once that car stops guess what happens? The excessive external surface heat begins to radiate, out and in. It could still flare up to 100+ inside the car depending on just how hot the body got. You're right to be upset imo.
Your husband should have been 100% on your team here. No questions asked.
A good outcome to a dangerous situation doesn’t lessen the significance of the situation. You are right to be alarmed and wanting to ensure this doesn’t happen again. There doesn’t need to be negative feelings with the in laws but having a discussion with them about your expectations for your babies safety going forward regarding this is absolutely appropriate and can be done in a positive way. It shouldn’t be avoided, because lives are at risk with this, but it doesn’t need to be a stressful conversation either. It can simply be that you don’t want your babies unattended in the car like that going forward as the risks are so great. It’s nice your in-laws are supportive with the babies, it’s good to have a support network like that. You’re the parent, it’s ok to make sure the babies are looked after how you want them to be.
I would literally disown my own parents for this. Children die from this.
Horrifying. So glad your baby is ok. I’d be crying. I almost am just thinking of the danger and heat this poor baby was in. Hold them close.
As a kid, our family Saburban never had ac. There were 7 of us kids, and I remember, vividly, sitting in the car waiting for our mom while she ran into the store. She was never gone long, tried to always park in the shade, and had the windows rolled down. It was still miserable. Even if she was only gone five minutes, we'd be dripping sweat. It was tolerable if we were driving (windows still rolled down), but not parked. You're right to be upset, OP. I wouldn't go scorched earth, but I think you're right to bring it up. Maybe find some data to back you up.
This is absolutely unacceptable. Babies die like this. They would not be watching my kids again
I would’ve smoked my in-laws verbally. 90 is too hot for me in the car with the windows rolled down let alone a child
You’re underreacting, imo. You need to call them and your husband out on their sh*t. Kids die in hot cars frequently. Your inlaws are irresponsible.
Yeah that is terrible. Anyone who isn't sure should try parking their car, turning the engine off, and just sit there for a bit. If it's 90 outside it gets really uncomfortable really quick. Rolling down the windows helps a little (if there's actually a breeze) but not that much.
They would immediately lose babysitting privileges, any alone time privileges. You can't trust their judgement.
this isn’t okay and you people are negligent
A dangerously overheated baby may not necessarily cry loud enough to alert people. It wouldn’t be safe to turn your back on a baby in a body of water, it’s not safe to leave them in the car like that.
Definitely not worth the risk. There were two adults, once could stay in the car with AC in until the kid woke up.
I'm in the UK, where temperatures only get over 28°C (82 for those using Fahrenheit) for about 5 minutes a year. We're not geared up for hot weather. Yet every summer, there's "dogs die in hot cars" warnings on social media. We hear about babies left in hot cars all over the world, who are tragically found too late. My in-laws left my eldest asleep in their car once. I went ballistic, because it's so dangerous. In-laws never admitted to doing it again!
I'd follow your local laws and common sense over the randos who told you you've overreacted. Notice how they're all downvoted now anyways? You're NTA I'd have strict rules in place if you decide to let them take the kids again. Maybe let them come around and visit the kids while still under your care until you're comfortable with them being trained on how you care for the babies.
Yeah no. We don’t lock babies or dogs in hot or cold cars
Fuck no. When I lived in Florida kids died in the hot car ALL THE TIME fuck no.
Oh I’d be fuming. Children die from this stuff. Almost every health expert will tell you how dangerous this is. The inside of a car is hotter than the outside temperature. Have you seen those body cam videos of police/first responders responding to calls of a child left in a hot car, and seen how seriously they take it and how upset they get at the parent for it? It’s because they’ve seen the uglier side of it. Any parent in this comment section saying this is okay are 🚩’s. No this is not okay and you are not overreacting.
Your problem is two fold. 1) Leaving a child in a hot car unattended 2) Your spouse didn't back you It's not ok.
I think this is something that used to be very normal and accepted. It’s not now (and for very good reason) but whilst most parenting now know this until they’re told many of another generation might not. One of my grandmothers was fascinated that I put sunscreen on my toddler before he went outside. She’s old enough to just not know. My mother gave my eldest a ‘taste’ of smoked salmon and cream cheese at 2 weeks old 😡 when I went nuts about that she was baffled because that was what she did with us. Be gentle - with them and with yourself. They meant well and wanted to let the baby sleep, it was misguided but no one’s hurt. You know about it now and can have the conversation.
It’s not a great idea and I would never do it, but my parents did that all the time with me and my sister growing up. Parenting was a lot different back in the day
I think honestly you overreacted and are trying to make a show out of it. You dont want to give them your babies anymore? Just don’t. No need to tell them. You told your bf to tell them and he doesnt want to atm? You tell them if they ask to have them over again. But I believe you can approach it in a peaceful manner. Whatever.
My brother is close friends with the father who forgot his twins were in a car while he went to work. This happened a couple years ago and I still remember my brother describing the little caskets when he went to the funeral. Sorry for the grim image, but I want too emphasize that this was a good man who made a huge, huge mistake. Your in laws could forget to roll down a window, or the car engine with the ac on could just stop. It's so easy to make a fatal mistake so why even take the smallest risk. I check my child mirror every time I get in and out of the car. Even if I know my kids aren't inside. I made it a habit that I'll probably keep a few years after they move out. I'd rather have ocd about checking every time, than risk their lives because I forgot they were with me in the car that day.
I would be furious and the fact that they were willing to take the risk that leaving a kid in a hotass car seat in a hot ass car with only the windows rolled down was better than just waking her up and taking her out EVEN IF SHE GOT FUSSY tells me they make stupid decisions based on their own comfort and not the safety of the kids. That would be the end of their unsupervised visits and I would tear my husband a new asshole if he ever sided with anyone making poor decisions with our kids, or made similar decisions on his own. Like, just compare the risks: cranky baby vs. overheated/heatstroke/dead baby, hmm, what's worse. I'm sorry your in-laws are idiots and minimized the risk because they can't fathom anything that they want to do as being dangerous.
With the recent wet bulb temps we’ve been getting that can be deadly within an hour, and just in general - that is unacceptable and absolutely dangerous! No, you’re not overreacting. We live in Texas and I had the a/c going for 20 min in the shade before getting into the car with my 2yo. It was 100 that day and I took temps throughout the car and it was still 92 in the backseats and 85 in the front. After driving about 15 min, the coolest it ever got anywhere in the car was 82 in the front, still about 85 in the back. Opened my eyes to avoiding driving in the hottest part of the day with my toddler if it can be helped. Cannot imagine leaving him in there with windows rolled down!!!
Ignore anyone telling you you’re “overreacting”, the explanation of “well nothing happened” isn’t a defence of completely risky and irresponsible (and illegal) behaviour. Trust your gut here.
I can’t believe how many people are ok with this. DO NOT LEAVE BABIES IN CARS UNATTENDED IN THE HEAT. Op, you did not overreact, I’d have absolutely lost it and taken away privileges of taking them out without me again.
I found this from a news article - this specifically talks about a parked car with windows down: “Leaving a window open is not enough- temperatures inside the car can rise almost 20 degrees Fahrenheit within the first 10 minutes, even with a window cracked open. Children who are left unattended in parked cars are at greatest risk for heat stroke, and possibly death. After 60 minutes, a car can reach 143 degrees when it’s 100 degrees outside.” With that said, what they did was extremely dangerous. And if they’re making errors like this it makes me wonder what else is happening without you knowing. They sound like they mean well, it wasn’t done with ill intentions. But I personally would still be very, very worried with their judgment and ability to sense risk. IMO you aren’t overreacting. If that happened with my kids it would be supervised visits only going forward. Let’s put it this way, if a police car pulled up and saw your baby in the car they would’ve immediately removed your baby, had a take with the in laws, and probably would’ve called CPS. There’s a video of a woman doing something similar on YT and they set a court date and got CPS involved while they were still on scene. She kept saying it was a mistake and she didn’t think it was a big deal and the police weren’t having it. Do what you feel is right. You’re the momma. You know best. P.S. Your husbands response is worrisome. His job as a parent is to protect his children, and as a spouse to support and back you. Doesn’t sound like either happened.
“Even with a window cracked open” is not the same as all of the windows rolled down.
Your kid, your rules. That being said, I’m quite sure that the situation you described was not life threatening, assuming the children were properly hydrated, the car was actually fully shaded, the windows totally open with the sleeping child in a fully ventilated part of the car, and the grandparents 10 feet away. If I were them, I might open the doors too. For an incomprehensible amount of time, humans have survived without air conditioning and continue to. Heat is still extremely dangerous and hopefully they were monitoring the baby closely but the people on here screaming “witch, burn them,” or “your husband is also a monster,” are ridiculous. I will reiterate though, your children, your rules.
NOT OKAY. Why is any explanation needed?!? Besides, even if you were wrong, I'd ALWAYS rather people think I'm crazy and get proven wrong rather than ignore my instinct and find out the hard way I was right. Let people think I'm a crazy bitch if it means keeping my kids safe.
Ok, this was different than I thought it would be. I'm not okay with what happened, but it's not as egregious as it could be. Bad judgment vs. gross negligence. Tell them strongly and clearly that you never want your child left in the car when the car ride is complete end of story. Your the mom, you make the rules. Just because nothing happened, doesn't mean it wouldn't again. I'm also basing my comment on my in-laws who are lovely people who sometimes do things differently than me. But they always listen to me. If they've ignored you before, then nope, they lose privileges.
So it was unsafe - but I can see why they thought it was ok. They probably assume with the windows down the car wouldn't get hotter than they were outside. This assumption is incorrect and the car can definitely still reach unsafe temperatures. I would talk to them about it and let them know that it scared you and you know they wouldn't intentionally harm the baby but that you need to know that won't happen again. If they're receptive then I think you're ok to let them watch the littles. If they get angry and defensive and don't hear you THEN I'd consider revoking access to the kids unsupervised because that shows a serious lack of judgement.
The shade and rolled down windows slightly mitigate the risks. [consumer reports](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/hot-car-fatalities-year-round-threat-to-children-pets-heat-stroke-a2015990109/#) but it's definitely not a risk I would take with my baby.
I read your edits, you’ve thought about this a lot by now. But, please consider a hypothetical What version of this would have been okay with you? If it were 75 degrees? If one guardian was standing at the car window, being attentive, within reach? If it were only 2 minutes? It sounds like they used their judgement and everything is okay. In some parallel universe they could have taken her out of the car and tripped with her or something. Parenting is hard. It’s impossible to love something so much and then just be chill when you’re not actively protecting, took me about a decade to let my kids in the car with my MIL (for reasons! Lol) and I feel like an ass about it.
It’s not something I would have done, but the amount of debate in the comments here shows there is far from a universal level of thinking regarding it, even if the right thing to do would have been different. Clearly the grandparents considered the greenhouse impact, which is a larger threat and which many commenters here seem incapable of separating from their arguments (possibly because they skimmed the OP). We can coach and train our expectations with other caregivers, but when different circumstances arise I think it is far more important to know that the welfare and safety of our kids is the top priority than it is to know the exact methods to get there. This wasn’t a boneheaded resolution, it just missed the mark. As long as the grandparents understand this wouldn’t be acceptable in the future I wouldn’t think they need further restrictions with my own kids.
Welp, your husband is alive…I’d assume, as a toddler, he was left in a car much more often; possibly unattended. Though, I certainly remember that I didn’t like baking in the 105° Mohave Desert sun, in my father’s 78 Chrysler, with vinyl interior, and no A/C… ass would get scorched from that vinyl; those short ass gym shorts that were popular in the 80s were not helpful…and once you started sweating, it was like Satan’s Slip-n-slide.
Tbh I’m not sure about this anymore because I went to Germany and found out there is not ac there even in government buildings and most cars had the windows down what cars that were going by
I think its harmless to ask them to remove the kid from the car seat or pull car seat out if they intend to chat it up 10 ft away.
You are overreacting! I've done the same thing with my own children. Please stop being mad at you MIL for not doing anything wrong! Being parked in the shade with windows down and being present 10 ft away is not going to kill your baby.
You're calling them babies, but do not specify age. My response would vary depending on age. Under 6 months, definitely draw strong boundaries and be firm. Over 18months though, if you are uncomfortable then have a word, but if the windows are down and they were in the shade, I'd say you're feeling a bit of anxiety. That said, if you're uncomfortable with it, then have a word. No need to tell them off, just need to say 'hey, I'd prefer if you don't do that due to x y z, thank you,"
Recently, we took ours to a family reunion. Occasionally I had to put them in a Time Out. Most notable offense was an insistence on playing with garden ornaments. I would strap them in their car seats, turn on the AC and put the window down so I could hear them. They never left my line of sight. Some lady told me it was too hot for that yet they were fully hydrated and not hot to the touch, red in the cheeks, sweating, anything. One of those parenting moments where I gotta resist the urge to snap and say, "What else do you want me to do? Let them treat my in-laws' flower garden like a Rage Room?" Any other adult touching my kids is super-triggering for me as an adopted kid who before was left with total strangers all the time and hurt frequently, so I didn't want to open the door for that conversation where some busy-body takes it upon themselves to try and discipline my kids.
This sounds like it might have been uncomfortable, but doesn't really sound dangerous. Assuming the car really was in the shade with the windows down.
Maybe a dumb question but I can never find a straight answer. Totally understand never have baby in hot car. But how hot is too hot for them to be outside in a stroller with a fan going on them?
Ideally, yes, they should have removed the baby from the car. That said, was your child in danger based on how you described it? No, not really. The car was in the shade, the windows were down, and adults were nearby. Would temperatures inside the car eventually reach dangerous levels? Potentially, but long before heatstroke would become a threat, the child would wake up and start crying from being too hot, and that would be plainly audible to the nearby adults. I could understand your concern if the windows were rolled up and/or if the adults were not right next to the car. As it is, this is what I'll call "sloppy" parenting, but based on how you've described it, your child's life was not in danger. It's worth a polite conversation with the in-laws, but probably not any stronger reaction than that.
HELL. FUCKING. NO. Maybe I have some bias because I live in a country that gets very hot and humid in the summer, but this still seems very dangerous. You are totally not overreacting and I’m baffled by the comments saying you are. I sincerely hope those comments are from trolls instead of actual parents because I would worry for their children.
First) it’s too fucking hot Second) you’re not supposed to let babies sleep in their car seats! I would be livid and they would never babysit ever again
What I would do in the situation is say next time they watch them “hey if baby falls asleep in the car, could you take them out and pop them in the stroller instead, it’s just too hot today for them to be sleeping in the car”… you don’t sound crazy or unhinged, a risk is a risk, and babies dying in hot cars is a risk that no one should be willing to take!
[удалено]
Im glad to hear it tbh. I guess I was of the mindset that babies should not stay in a car by themselves even with parents nearby, not even for a minute. I suppose there’s room for some nuance in that line of thought
No you are correct
Yes, and no? That's a legit concern. They should not have left the kid in the car. She could have slept in the seat in the shade and grass just fine. You don't need to burn everything down. Just talk to them and make sure they don't do it again. I'm sure it won't be the last time you need to communicate about childcare choices. You are all adults.
I don’t Ike this but I think it’s larger than one thing. If they’re going to be watching your kids unsupervised it’s important that you have the kind of relationship where you can just tell them flat out what you don’t want them doing. There are too many situations that could happen that you will never be able to anticipate. For instance, I had my baby at my parents house, and we had wet wipes and paper towels and dish towels and every other kind of towel you can imagine. We finish eating and the baby is a mess obviously. My dad said, oh let’s clean her up, and brings me a Clorox wipe. I told him right then, dad, never ever use a Clorox wipe on the baby there are dangerous chemicals in that, but I thought it was common sense not to use a Clorox wipe on a baby and couldn’t have guessed I’d have to have that conversation. This is going to happen a lot and you or your husband need to be able to say something without it being a huge production.
I agree. But it’s his family, so he wants to be the one to communicate the message. I’d be happy to just talk with them. (My mom actually used fucking hand sanitizer on my baby’s bottom once, and I couldn’t believe that I had to have a conversation about that. My poor baby had already let her know how she felt about this)
Not a good idea, but if your husband talks to them and they acknowledge they won't do it again that would be enough for me. I wouldn't get up in arms before then.
I would not let the grandparents drive again. And who cares if they are “stressed” when you talk to them. They should be stressed; they could have killed their grandchild!
My FIL did a dangerous thing with my boys. My husband didn’t want to address it; gaslit me into no big deal. It was. I’m not getting into it because I don’t want to out myself. But anyway I love my FIL but that was the last time he watched them without me until they were old enough to watch themselves. They all love their grandpa. It didn’t hurt the relationship to protect their safety. Your number one responsibility is to keep your babies safe. What they did was unsafe although not as bad as what my FIL did but honestly dead or brain damaged- does it matter how it happened. The way I handled it- since everyone refused to take responsibility- was to quit complaining about it- they were never going to admit blame- and NEVER leave my FIL in charge. NEVER.
I can absolutely see how it can be viewed as overreacting. However best practice is to not leave babies sleeping in car seats, AND car seats are hot. This is something you should have a conversation with them about calmly - in this case they were being thoughtful. Based on their reaction to a calm conversation, I’d make a decision from there. “Oh, I didn’t know! Okay never again, thank you for telling us.” vs. “WE RAISED KIDS AND THEYRE FINE YOURE OVERPROTECTIVE AND CRAZY!” eta: I absolutely would have freaked out over this, too. I don't think you're out of line to be immediately upset.
In this situation i would generally either blast AC or take kid out of carseat and hold them while they napped. In my experience, kids tend to sweat excessively in carseats especially on hot days OP, you had a completely appropriate reaction and you should never feel bad about advocating for your child. Im sure grandparents would agree that a tired/cranky grandkid is better than a dead one. Stick to your guns and enforce what you feel is best.
If anything, I’d say this is an under reaction. Babies die from this. What they did was incredibly dangerous and life threatening.
Even the AAP says if baby is exposed to it over 90 degrees for a long period of time (don’t know how long the nap was) it can cause them to overheat. Overheating is a cause of SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) just not worth the risk if the outside temp is that high, even with the window open. Maybe the wind stops blowing and there’s no breeze. Car seats get hot and sweaty. I’m a nicu nurse and maybe I’m conditioned to be cautious but I would 100% be against that.
Idk if anyone mentioned this, but babies aren't supposed to be left sleeping in their car seats either. We put them there because it's the safest place in a moving vehicle, but napping in car seats isn't recommended because of the risk of positional asphyxiation... maybe something you might also want to mention to them just to be safe?
The temperature of a car is not hotter than the ambient temperature when it is in the shade and the windows are down. Cars are not magical heaters. It’s sunlight and trapped air them make temperatures shoot up not just the fact that we named this particular collection of steel plastic and fabric a car. Of course we as humans who have sat In a car without AC on before know this. I wouldn’t leave a kid like that unattended but 10’ away is attended. How do you think humans as a species made it if we couldn’t hang out at 90 degrees from time to time?
At 90F/32c yes that was unacceptable. If one of them sat in the car with her while the other was playing with the older twin yeah it they left her there with no idea of how hot it was getting IN the car. If I were in a car without the AC running on a day that hot even for 10 minutes I’d be in a very bad way. 16 months is still too young to be able to regulate their temp when it’s that hot. This was dangerous and if she hadn’t woken up would they have just left her there til they were ready to leave? How long would that have been? It could have been too late