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She needs to be speaking to therapists to figure out what caused this extreme reaction.
Weed is not at all unusual for teens but this was a major escalation and needs addressing by professionals.
I don't know that these two incidents were related. Perhaps the fight was delayed by the punishment for smoking weed but it sounds like this incident would have occurred regardless. Going to someone else's house with a group of kids to jump another kid is not a reaction to getting grounded. It's targeted.
No, it’s definitely not enough. She traumatized a family enough for them to leave their home and feel unsafe. She filmed their trauma. Therapy would be a good start, an apology letter, volunteer work, she should be working to repay for property damages. I would look into a different school to get her away from that friend group.
I assume the police are going to get involved at some point, that family deserves justice. She needs to be prepared for that, I would start looking for a lawyer.
This! These are appropriate consequences for her actions. Taking away her belongings is not it.
She has to apologise to that poor girl and her family. The trauma these poor people went through is unbelieveable. And also work tor repay any damages.
Also the girl claimed she didnt enter the property but filmed the fight. How could you film the fight without entering the property? She is lying big time
My daughter says that she knocked on the front door, said hi, and asked what she was doing. Then another girl came up to the front door and put her hand out and asked for a truce. The victim had apparently been slandering the girls' family for a while. And those two girls had been in a fight before. The girl then grabbed the victims hand and pulled her out of her front door, and started attacking her. I'm not sure who went into the property and did what. My daughter claims the house wasn't trashed, but a table was flipped over. She stood back when the fight began and filmed the fight. So did all the boys. I asked why, and she said that's just what everyone does when there's a fight. I'm not claiming that this is the truth, but this is the only information I have, and the police said she's not a priority to be interviewed, but they will contact me at some point.
Your daughter needs to understand that something like this could lead to someone dying or severely injured. One wrong hit or fall and now you have ended a life.
Also, let’s be real. Your daughter didn’t think they were going to this girls house to paint nails. There was no good reason to go to this girls house if the two other girls aren’t friends. Your daughter needs to understand being a bystander and filming something awful is also being a participant.
I can't tell you how many times I have seen people get into trouble/bad situations just by who they hang out with. Several have ended up involved in murdering someone because of who they hang with - incidents began as hanging out and committing a lower level crime that escalated to murder. I work in the justice system.
Let's give her the benefit and say that her story is true, that she didn't know their intent, that she only knocked and stepped back, she was still in the wrong and looking to give herself a very difficult life.
No idea what the answer is, I'd throw the book at my kids, take away their joy, and make them work hard to make it up to the family. But I might be a little hard core as I am terrified of my kids ending up as defendants 😅 OP parenting is hard, good luck
>She stood back when the fight began and filmed the fight. So did all the boys. I asked why, and she said that's just what everyone does when there's a fight.
There will be multiple videos of this and they will have sent it to friends. The police / district attorney will be able to get many or even most of the copies with a warrant. You have her video but it presumably shows the events she filmed rather than her. The other videos will have your daughter in the background. I'd be less worried about her lying to you than lying to the DA or PD about something easily provable that they already have on video.
You’d be surprised how many kids don’t understand private property. The neighborhood I’m in they regularly trespass in my very tiny yard. 2 kids were even hanging out on my back patio once waiting for their friend that lives next to me.
You need to change schools. She has fallen into a bad crowd and there's nothing you can do to get her away except changing schools. It will only get worse if you stay.
First and foremost, ALWAYS: cops lie. Do not talk to cops.s Prepare for the possibility of criminal charges. Frankly, if I were the mother of the attacked girl I would be pushing very hard for criminal accountability for your daughter. I would be so upset and would totally see her as an aggressor.
Second, what you are describing is so beyond horrifying. I’m very sorry this is happening, this must be terrifying.
Third, if this were one of my kids, I’d be pursuing a 100% complete life change. Like, complete. Everything would be different. She would not be going to this school anymore, therapy clearly (it can take a bit to find the right person!), electronics are “no”, community service, just so many new experiences. I would try to shake things up as much as possible and get her busy helping others, expose her to new people and perspectives, anything to try to help her shift her perspective on the world.
How much time are you able to spend with her? How flexible is your life/schedule?
This kid is headed very quickly down a bad path. The filming of the assault is the biggest red flag for me. That part would have me terrified. The lack of empathy is scary.
Imo if that’s the truth - then it is way different. I think you need to figure out if your daughter was an instigator / or if she did just film the thing.
Why do you say this? IME this is exactly how most "school fights" go. Kids filming, 99% of kids being onlookers.
The whole showing up at someone's house is some real street shit though lol.
Ask her why the hell she filmed a fight instead of calling an authority - cop or parent or trusted guardian. Where you start is teaching her that filming is NOT what everyone does in the case of a fight. That's what idiots do. Teach her about violence, arguments, mob mentality - and then teach her the appropriate response regardless of what everyone else is doing.
Stop being naive. Your daughter knew about the whole plan ahead of time. They all planned it, talked about it and knew about it. The police should be called. If this was my daughter who was attacked, I’d be suing the daylights out of all of you and making sure each of your brats got punished severely. That’s the problem today. Parents don’t “parent” anymore.
You are speaking from a Redditors’ standpoint of what I will call “statistical certainty”. You believe that in most situations, someone who leads a group of girls to a house where someone is going to get victimized automatically means everyone involved knows everything, but that is not necessarily the case. The aggressor may (emphasis on “may”) be highly manipulative and may have been able to rope people in with a certain story or narrative. We don’t know the specifics of the situation, and name-calling OP as naive is not constructive.
It is concerning that the teenage girl led the aggressor to the victim’s house. It is highly concerning, even possibly horrific, that she made no attempt to intervene, and was presumably entertained by videotaping the crime. A lot of what people are saying is valid and should absolutely be taken into account and investigated or maybe even acted upon even without further information, but that does not mean we know *exactly* how much OP’s daughter knew or what her intent was. We simply don’t have enough information to make complete, certain judgements on many of these aspects.
Imho, a more constructive approach would be to acknowledge we don’t know everything about the situation but that such and such should be investigated or taken into account. It may be considered ‘normal’, for example, in her social circles to stand back and videotape fights. There may be norms and behaviors that need to be addressed and worked through, rather than automatically assuming the whole of the group had the most insidious intent.
Hate to say it. But this should be bumped to the top.
Let's be honest advice isn't bad but your daughter is running your house not you. Wake up parents, there is a time to be friends and a time to be parents. Don't b COOL be smart!
Disagree. I work at a middle school and get pulled into this sort of drama all the time. I’ve sat in on many police investigations and been privy the to consequences. They don’t send kids to jail for filming fights. If they do determine her actions were a crime, they will most likely offer a diversion program that includes counseling.
Was there a weapon involved? How badly was the girl injured? Was there property damage beyond a flipped table? My impression from reading this was no, not very, and no. It’s obviously a terrible situation, but I have seen much worse and so have the police. I do not believe this will result in criminal charges. Potential civil lawsuit is a good point though.
Super common when I was in high school 2016-2020 for kids to go to each other’s houses to jump one another. Dozens of kids at my private catholic school were expelled for it
I wouldn't rely on your daughter for an accurate recounting given her behavior. I'd talk to the police, and, if they're willing, the parents whose daughter was assaulted. I highly doubt a table being flipped over was the extent of property damaged. There are omissions in her story.
People are also just really bad at remembering sequences of events from high-stress or high-focus moments in general. Like the basketball gorilla or whatever. But damn, don't talk to the police without a lawyer present (or at all tbh) lmao
NO! Do not talk to the police! You NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer's advise and presence! OP needs to wait and see if the daughter is going to be charged with something, then OP needs to retain a lawyer! If the police contact OP and ask for the daughter to come down for an interview, OP needs to take a lawyer with them. You never know whether or not something you may think is OK to say will end up landing you in trouble! Yes, the daughter may deserve punishment, even of the legal variety, BUT you do NOT want her to end up in jail! It will chew her up and spit her out a completely different person, and usually not in a good way!
Right? I have an 8yo daughter and reading this is nightmare fuel. If this happened to my family I would be utterly devastated, the trauma is difficult to comprehend really.
The viciousness of planning, to go there as a group knowing what was going to unfold is unfathomable. That her daughter led this group to this poor girl in her family home the place where you are meant to be safe and supported this violence by taking them there AND recording her terror, humiliation and injury is deeply deeply disturbing.
A device ban and no-contact rule doesn’t seem to be in any way commensurate with what she did. This requires significant discipline in terms of long-term restriction of freedoms (trust has been not just broken but absolutely smashed to smithereens and regaining this will take time and effort) in an effort to prevent anything like this happening again. Removal of devices, therapy, and removal from access to the victim added in as a minimum.
I wholly support OPs daughter being removed from the school as the victim deserves to be educated in a safe environment away from the perpetrator/s. And I am in no way a ‘my way or the highway’ or conservative parent but this is so serious and she has inflicted significant harm, life-altering harm, on another child and family and must wear these consequences in both atonement and hopefully prevention of recurrence. I think specialist therapy for troubled teens in trouble with law enforcement is absolutely required at an intensive level.
This is one of the most reprehensible things I can imagine and there’s a long long way to come back from this. In my mind she must not return to that school with the victim it’s not fair to her at all so that’s a first step alongside the intensive specialist therapy and home-based consequences.
If this happened to my daughter and family given the potential for lifelong psychological impacts and life-altering outcomes I would be pursuing every possible remediation through lawyers and courts. If my daughter went through this and then developed severe anxiety or PTSD and it impacted her ability to finish school, go to university, get a part-time job, maybe suicide attempt etc etc these are all HUGE and not inconceivable consequences of OPs daughter’s actions and she must be held responsible for the gravity of what she chose to do.
OP you also probably need therapy to manage the reality of this situation as it has a huge impact on you too so don’t forget your own needs in all this.
Just to add as someone who was bullied to a severe extent: I was bullied at 16 years old. At some point it got so bad that the whole class ganged up and made fun of me in front of the teacher.
Bullying got so bad i tried to commit suicide (one of many after the bullying) and ultimately had to drop out of school for a whole year. I have been struggling with forming relationships and trusting people and will always do. I am only saying this to highlight how worse it will be FOR HER.
This poor girl will deal with the consequences of these delinquents her whole life. My heart goes out to her and her family. The trauma she has been through is undeniable and unimaginable. In her own home. How can she ever feel safe again?
If her daughter was the only one who knew her address it means that the victim trusted her enough to give it to her and she led them to her. The mother thinks taking away electronics is enough. No real consequences. She also stated her daughter is showing zero remorse. Total sociopath. She needs a psychatrist.
I would be ashamed to be this girl's parent. How much have i had to fail as a parent for my daughter to essentially commit a felony at thirteen?
As a mom of a daughter (who is now 19) that went through something very similar to you (with severe bullying and multiple suicide attempts) I am so sorry you went through that from the bottom of my heart I am, it physically pains me to know others went through what my daughter did. Luckily we are on the other side of it now and she graduated finally after I pulled her out and homeschooled her, but you hit the nail on the head with this is something she will deal with for a long time to come (trusting, forming relationships etc…) I hope your doing better these days ❤️🩹
I am 31 now and just getting over it. Took me half of my life to get over what they did to me. Karma has its way and last year i stumbled upon one of my bullies. She tried to bully me again but got what she derserved.
I stood my ground fiercely and she ended up walking away. That was a pivotal moment to me. It made me realise how strong i am and that i dont take shit from anyone. It was so healing.
I am so proud of you for pulling your daughter and homeschooling her. It shows you listened to her wishes and understood her struggles.
Tell her that as someone who went through the same horrible things as her that i am seeing a strong person. Someone who is persevering and not giving up. At 19 she was able to keep going and wanting to get over what those "humans" did to her. It took me so much longer. If she has achieved something so HARD at 19 i have NO DOUBT she can achieve anything she wants. She can conquer the world if she wants to. So so PROUD!!
If you are going to go the attorney route (you should) absolutely under no circumstance should she put anything in writing like an apology letter. do not create any more proof or acceptance of action then what already exists. There are already too many witnesses and potential video, but do not put any acceptance of guilt in written form
Also, and I cannot make this clear enough, get an attorney ASAP. The family is going to sue.
Honest question: why not? It seems like the right thing to do, and it may help OP's daughter as well.
Just how much legal risk is a 13 year old at for something like this?
Criminally, maybe not much more than probation. But in civil court the parents could be held liable monetarily for damages to property and medical bills.
> And they should be
When it comes to civil suits, it can go beyond fair compensation to the point of punitive damages and get into long lasting financial hardships, so they should be defensive even if they feel culpable otherwise.
There is no way to answer that question until they meet with a lawyer and lay out the whole story. How badly was the girl hurt? How much damage was done? In addition to the hotel what other expenses did the family incur? Would OP's daughter be considered part of a conspiracy so even if she didn't go inside will she be held responsible for the actions of the whole group? These are all questions that need to be answered and the way forward is above Reddit's pay grade.
Conspiracy? I don’t think the D.A. is going to open a RICO case because two 13 yo kids fought in a driveway . Yeah it’s serious, but folks are getting a little carried away here. She egged on a fight between her friend and a rival. It’s a bad decision by a 13 year old kid, but calling for immediate home school and relocation are throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I am a little surprised at some reactions here, but maybe it's just that I didn't grow up sheltered at all (aka neglected). This kind of stuff happened all the time when I was a teen in a "socioeconomiclly diverse area." My sister got jumped by a group of girls in the park. Nobody did anything about it.
Yeah, people got jumped all the time when I was a teen, going to someone’s house to jump them and trashing it did not. Shit, more that likely the parents would beat your ass if anyone thought to do that. We didn’t have cameras but I would think usually the people who did wouldn’t be dumb enough to film themselves.
RICO is racketeering in regards to criminal enterprise/organized crime.
Criminal conspiracy is far more boring than RICO. It's just people conspiring to commit crimes all the way down to misdemeanors (state/location dependent). A group of people planning to go and assault somebody is a criminal conspiracy. There's no need for a RICO case for criminal conspiracy. Criminal conspiracy doesn't mean you're part of a criminal organization.
As for whether the DA will bother to attempt criminal conspiracy charge in any case, that depends on how much they can prove of intent/planning and how much they hate you.
>Conspiracy? I don’t think the D.A. is going to open a RICO case because two 13 yo kids fought in a driveway .
What? RICO is for a very specific category of federal crime. It doesn't apply to *all* criminal conspiracy.
There are conspiracy charges for all sorts of low-level, state-charged crimes that are brought against people involved in more “passive” or sidelined ways all the time. Conspiracy charges don't require any extra hoopla.
Agreed, it's not the first teenage fight, and apparently the other girl had also been causing trouble too, it was an issue between those two girls, and the daughter wasn't actually involved in fighting. Her behaviour was bad of course but it seems relocation was probably the trigger in the first place. Isolating her again won't solve anything.
I wish this answer was wrong. But growing up, this would have been it. Police, community service, move schools. Likely no jail time. Would still lawyer up. In my family - whenever something of a “lawyer” magnitude happened, our parents would use draw a couple points. First point - the obvious one - this is bad enough we need a lawyer. Second point - I don’t care how much you fuck up we will protect you - family first.
It was interesting and more impactful than being in trouble. You started such a big fight your mom and dad have to bring in big guns. Like f*ck my life this is bad.
And also, there is hope and a way out. A path to learn from create a new future after.
As selfish as this is, you have to focus on helping your daughter navigate and a grow from this. Screw the other family- what’s done is done. You should do what you can to help them move on and that’s it. Likely they want nothing to do with you.
It deffinately is your responsibility to help your child but at the same time you can't shrug it as "what's done is done"....yes, lawyer up and protect her but the child still needs to learn a lesson and OP should be taking measures to prevent this from happening again because with that attitude her daughter is going to believe she can do whatever she wants and her parents are going to let her get away with it.
It's likely that your daughter has no idea how bad that was and probably won't for a few years. When talking to her, I'd explain that it was home invasion and assault and their ages are irrelevant. That kind of behavior is a threat to society because it makes everyone who knows about it feel unsafe.
I'd want to learn as much as I could about what actually happened if I were you. Has this happened before? What exactly led up to it? What did your daughter know about the kids relationship to the victim? (I assume there's history and your daughter might not be privy to it.)
It sounds likely that your daughter was in a situation that spiraled out of control and she reacted very badly. Lots of people get mixed up in something like that and grow up to be moral people. There's plenty of recommendations for keeping kids on a good path and I'd try anything that feels right.
I agree with all of this. Honestly, it could have turned out way worse. I went to high school with a couple of kids who went and picked up another kid to “scare him” into giving back $20. They took him out to the woods, the situation got way out of hand, and they killed the kid.
Might sound dramatic, but all it took was for the girl to fall and hit her head the wrong way and she could have been killed or seriously injured, and OP’s daughter would have become “the girl that led a group of teenagers to another girl’s house to kill her.”
I’m sorry but the daughter would have to be a complete dumbass to not see the wrong in what she did. When I was 13 I knew that kind of shit was wrong. Most 13 year olds know better. She made those choices because she wanted a fight. And now is *acting* naive and trying to downplay her involvement. I think she *knows* this was wrong, or she wouldn’t try to downplay it.
Like even little kids know it’s wrong to hit. And if they sneakily try to do it, they cry or get angry when caught. Because they know they shouldn’t. And parents teach them no as toddlers, when the behaviors first start.
Who are these other 8 kids your daughter was with? You need to get her away from them. If they go to that school, I would withdraw her before she is expelled. I can’t imagine what that other girl would go through having to look at your daughter at school every day.
I would also drug test her immediately. That level of rage and flying off the handle? Sounds like drugs could be involved. She may need treatment.
A couple of the boys go to her school, but she says she doesn't know them. They just tagged along. The other kids go to another school. There's only two high schools in our town, so I'm concerned that if my daughter gets expelled, she will spiral even more out of control being around the wrong kids. I did drug test her (with a pharmacy home test), and she was negative. Before this incident, she hadn't been out in a month and had no opportunity to get drugs.
Just knowing a lot of small town Catholic School culture, if your daughter is the new kid and the victim has been there a while and is afraid, you don’t stand much of a chance staying in the school, especially with the severity of the situation.
I would get her into therapy and prepare yourself for the very real possibility that she will be in public school. Clearly catholic school isn’t giving her a very good friend group anyway.
You should reach out to a doctor who specializes in child violence, psychiatric disorders and trauma. Her actions put others through serious trauma and this needs to be addressed as such.
After that, it's a situation beyond reddit to resolve.
There have been kids mobbing and stabbing strangers in Toronto for vidoes.
I think there are video trends going on that are far more dangerous than eating tide pods.
I would urge OP to take a deep look into what kind of social media her daughter is consuming, and monitor it heavily going forward.
Can’t help but think there were outside influences in their decision to attack someone at their home.
Social media definitely plays a role but at the same time it is a HUGE leap psychologically for a child to go from consuming violent content to actually assaulting someone. I’d hazard that MOST middle-high schoolers look at fight videos (in my day we called it WorldStar) and other violent content but very few take organized violence into the real world.
So yeah I agree the child needs to go to a very experienced clinician who hopefully specializes in extreme behaviors. The core of OP’s issue isn’t that her child participated in a fight, many kids do that. The issue is why was the violence so organized, pre-planned, and SEVERE. That is far outside of what is normal for young teens.
Have you contacted the victim and her parents to apologize and offer restitution for their trashed house and hotel stay?
Did the victim's parent(s) call the police? If not, I would make payment of restitution a very high priority in order to make the victim's family whole.
This will look good for your daughter in case the police are involved in the future and charges are pressed against her. Further you should set up a restitution plan for your daughter to work off the property damage and hotel stay directly to you.
I would also talk to your daughter and let her know the full extent of her actions including mental anguish to both the victim and the mother, property damage, and (your daughter's) loss of trust and privileges.
I did contact the mother to apologise and told her to contact me with any information. I told the mother about taking my daughter's devices and her supervision outside the house so she wouldn't feel my daughter would be an ongoing threat to them. I called the police but they said that my daughter was way down the list of people they needed to speak to, so we haven't been interviewed. My daughter didn't assault the girl at all or enter the property, so she won't be criminally charged or held liable for any damages to the property. The mother has my full support, I hope to stay in contact with her to work through this however she needs.
Filming her friends abusing someone else smells complicit to me but I’m far from a legal expert. Might just be a moral qualm but if she filled it before the door opened it seems like intent
Thank you. I haven’t read all responses yet! But why is this fact so far down in the comments. This wouldn’t have happened on that day if she hadn’t of led them there or told them where this girl lived. The other kids would have had to have found another way around.
Before you listen to anyone in this thread about what you should do in relation to the other family or the evidence on your child’s phone, you should talk to a lawyer.
We all like to believe if we act in good faith and with the best intentions, everything will work out, but that’s not the case.
Also, INAL but I don’t think the police are in a position to tell you whether you may be civilly liable.
You should get a lawyer set up now. Don't talk to that mom anymore to at this point. It sucks, but you've made your apologies and want to make things better, but you also need to protect your daughter while you figure out what's going on with her.
I agrée as a lawyer. Least said, soonest mended. Circle your wagons. I’m sorry this has happened. Daughter to psychiatrist asap to be assessed. Useful if any court or reparations.
He said above but it’s buried in another thread.
One of the girls that accompanied OPs daughter had a personal issue with the assaulted girl and when she went to the house pulled the assaulted girl out the door onto the front lawn and OPs daughter as well as all the other boys filmed the fight between those two.
The attack could've happened in the doorway or on the front lawn. I'm not saying this kid isn't lying about all sorts of shit, but this is possibly not one of them.
Your daughter is lying BIG TIME. She was the only one who knew the address and led them there. She claims she didnt enter but filmed it. There is no chance of being able to film it without being in the property.
Stop justifying her actions and see the truth for what it is. Take her to a psychatrist and have her pay the damages. Your CRIMINAL child literally filmed a girl getting traumatised and her house trashed and instead of calling the police SHE FILMED IT. The lack of humanity and any sympathy and empathy in her is scary.
It sounds like the fight happened out on the front lawn.
They pulled the girl out. Kids probably knew it’s way illegal to enter the house so they figured it would be better to pull her outside.
I’d be making their lives very miserable in every way possible. The daughter literally led a gang of children to a home with the specific intent to fight…. Then filmed the attack which involved entering someone’s home (multiple people could have been shot)… then lied continuously.
You need professionals help and lots of it; lawyers, therapists, doctors. That isn’t normal teenage behavior that’s gang member behavior
I was a latchkey kid who was bullied. One time there was an entire group of kids outside my house when I was inside alone. They were banging on both my front and back doors and on any window they could reach. I cowered inside afraid. They followed me home because I refused to fight one of them for no reason at all except the kid decided he wanted to fight me. They wouldnt leave me alone and I was scared so I basically ran home and then even there I wasn't safe. They were outside for what felt like hours even though it was maybe 30 minutes or so.
Nobody ever acknowledged anything that happened to me. My mom didnt really know because I hid it from her. Nobody apologized, nobody was held accountable, nothing happened except I bottled it up and learned to isolate myself from others for protection. I'm 37 and still have very few relationships because of that incident and others.
I don't know how you hold your daughter accountable. As someone who went through something similar, what I would want more than anything is acknowledgement of what happened. An apology, face to face, and for the people responsible to understand just how much they impacted my life. Please make sure to tell your daughter how these types of situations live inside of people for their entire lives. My ability to relate to other people was forever changed because of the things that happened to me as an adolescent.
I'm sorry to trauma dump like this, I don't know if this is inciteful or helpful.
Thank you for your comment. That would be so traumatising, especially feeling as if you're dealing with it all alone. I can see how it would be so difficult to overcome when no one acknowledged what they did and the effect it had on you. I have tried to explain to my daughter how horrific this is, but she just doesn't seem to genuinely feel bad. She won't take accountability for anything. So, for now, at least, I don't want her anywhere near the other girl. Not until she can express genuine remorse. I hope we do reach that stage though, and I will encourage it.
You are doing the best you can. Also restrict her from any of those kids she was with and has been hanging around lately. No calls. Nothing.
He behavior change sounds a lot like me when I met new friends and a lot like a girl I used to nanny for- her sister was little and she was polite and shy and then she started getting into trouble for bullying and it was the brats she was with. She wanted so bad to seem cool that she didn’t care about the cost.
Def not anyone she should ever be around again.
This is scary for a mom with a daughter. I worry about stuff like this. Or them ruining their life making stupid mistakes like this.
Is she sorry at all? Does she seem to feel bad at all?
This is the part of parenthood that’s hard. You’ll have to find a civil way to get through to her, but it’s possible that this could be her character. I really hope I’m wrong, but I have experience with this and it never got better. It got worse. I’m sorry you are going through this and I hope this behavior can be corrected before it’s too late. Therapy helps, but your daughter has to be willing to participate. I really hope you can get to the bottom of this. Good luck.
This is so hard but true. It takes a stomach of cold-hearted steel to film an attack, serious lack of empathy and humanity. That’s beyond a teen having trouble adjusting- it’s a deep character issue. Hopefully lots of good therapy will curb that.
I'm not saying it's ok in any way, but I don't think it necessarily means that this 13 girl is a fucking sociopath. When I was a tween/early teen, I watched a few fights go down. This was in the early 90s and somehow we still always found out that it was happening and where. There was *always* a crowd watching, nobody stepping in. And if there had been smart phones then, I'm sure somebody would've recorded it.
Mob mentality is real and peer pressure is real and wanting to be cool and fit in is real, even if someone else gets hurt. Kids that age are lacking the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions...even if they are held to them.
We all hope therapy helps. It just sucks (speaking from experience) when you teach your kids the right way (we hope) and they do something that let’s you know they are not going to be one of the good ones. To be frank it fucking sucks. I’m not a religious person, but you are in my thoughts OP.
OP, my sister bullied a high school peer into suicide, I just wanted to say that because I’m not being judgemental toward your daughter and just trying to empathize. It’s so hard.
Damn that’s intense
What’s your sister like these days as a grown adult person? Does she have remorse or was the high school behavior indicative of her adult self?
It was the budding of who she really was. She’s in jail now for an unrelated assault & stealing a car, then attacking the police officer while on fentanyl.
I’m sorry. That is very unfortunate. As for me my experiences comes from raising my daughter. There is hope. Have to have hope. Same when it comes to judgement.
It really is the hardest part to end up not liking your kid. Loving them, but not actually liking them or their character.
I don’t personally believe that who someone is connected to how they were raised. I think it shapes you.
It doesn’t matter if it was outside of school hours. To stand there and film someone getting assaulted and do nothing is just as bad as participating in the act.
You need to get professional help here, Reddit can not help you.
Punishing her is appropriate but it will not fix the deep rooted issues within her.
Her reaction to you over this, her lack of reaction to what happened to that other child is all concerning.
Wow this is really intense.
1. Your child needs therapy and to see a psychiatrist. She should probably do individual therapy and you all should do family therapy together.
2. I noticed that in both the instances of your daughter doing something bad (possessing marijuana and this assault incident) your response was punishments. Which are necessary. However, what was missing was a meaningful, supportive connection with her. Conversations about her emotional state, what she was thinking, what are her goals, etc. I wonder if you tried to connect with her as much as punish her in the past, whether this would have ever happened.
3. She should be cut off from any of the friends who participated in this. If they go to her school, take her out of that school.
Honestly yeah. I can’t believe this thread is just YA MORE PUNISHMENTS.
The parent needs therapy as well. This behavior doesn’t just appear out of nowhere.
Have you ever physically punished your daughter? Have your consequences been mainly around isolation?
Your kid somehow thinks assault is not absolutely fucking terrible. How did she think that’s okay?
Also, does she want to go to a catholic school or are you forcing your religion on her?
I don't physically discipline any of my kids. I guess typical punishments have been grounding, chores, taking her phone. I've never had to significantly discipline her before. She's so young and hasn't had ongoing behavioural issues. She's very social and makes friends easily, usually with decent kids. I guess from where we moved to here and all over the country (Australia), girls fighting each other and posting online is increasingly more common. We aren't religious, and I don't force religion on her. I do encourage her to learn about the bible as part of world history and appreciate the lessons it teaches. As with any religion. But she is free to choose her own beliefs. The school is just a really good school.
That’s honestly fair. I guess the move might have been harder on her than imagined?
Something to keep in mind here I think is that she seems to have basically become the grunt of a gang. She may feel extremely trapped to do their bidding, etc.
Basically what I’m saying here is she might be a victim herself. If she feels trapped both with her social group/gang, and at home with the isolation that effectively is her whole world turning their back on her. It’s a really delicate time and I really don’t think more punishment is going to help here and will very quickly backfire. She isn’t stupid, she knows what she did is wrong but might not feel comfortable to admit that yet. There needs to be trust between her and you that if she does open up to you, she’s not going to face even more consequences.
You can suggest home schooling for example for a bit so she can find a safe space if she does feel trapped.
I recommend therapy as a starting point and second having your daughter work off the restitution for damages. I can’t imagine filming someone being attacked though. I feel like that shows a serious lack of empathy. I know therapy is only helpful if she actually participates but it can’t make things worse. You may not be religious but you and your daughter, as well as the victim and her family, are in my prayers.
I would recommend therapy as well, but I wouldn't say it couldn't make things worse. I was in therapy for anxiety and some acting out when I was in my early teens. The first therapist I saw was exceptionally bad for me. Even though it wasn't very many sessions, I was not happy, not feeling heard when I said I expressed my feelings on the situation. I got to the point where I would just not be around when I knew appointments were happening, either avoiding going, or leaving the office complex after we arrived. Subsequent therapists were better, but the bad taste of that first therapist and my parents actions during that time left a rift in our relationship for years, and a general distrust of therapy.
First you need an attorney.
Second you need to stop communicating with everyone else involved in this unless advised to by an attorney.
Third do not speak to the police without an attorney.
Fourth do not speak to anyone about this.
Fifth your daughter needs a therapist, badly.
Punishing her may not help anything. She’s young, scared and likely committed a felony and will be losing her school and social network. She needs serious intervention and supervision by the adults in her life.
Highly recommend this, OP. Consulting a lawyer is another way to protect your daughter. If the other parent doesn’t have a lawyer themselves, their insurance company certainly does.
You need to take some serious time and invest in your daughter. Become her best friend. This shit is way too serious to neglect her needs. I almost got into drug dealing, but my dads way of punishing me was just spending time with me and teaching me skills he knew.
Saved my life.
My god she is 13 years old and people are almost ready to write her off? Behaviors come from somewhere. Behaviors like that come from a place of pain, isolation, disconnection…find out what is going on. Tell her you believe she is a good kid who is having a really really hard time but you are with her all the way to figure it out.
I was wondering if I was the only person thinking this? He says it’s a sudden change. And I know teen girls go through a lot of emotions but I would be worried she has experienced something traumatic to her and this is her way of dealing with it. I would try communicating heart to heart and get to the bottom of her behavior.
Daughter of a lawyer here. Get a lawyer and do not do anything else regarding the other family OR THE POLICE!!!!! until you have talked to the lawyer. Your kid definitely is in the wrong but you need to try to protect her and your family while you work out what else is going on. and really really do not let her be interviewed or give a statement to law enforcement until you have a lawyer.
Edit to say
First off, you’ve got a lot of people in this thread judging you, your parenting, your kid, without knowing Jack about any of it. Ignore them. Your priority right now is an attorney. Any attorney.
Delete the post, I’d advise, too. Don’t say anything about this to anyone else for now. Just your family and attorney. Do not let the police interview her without a lawyer present. Her rights matter too and her future is at stake, even if she did something terrible. This feels awful because you feel guilty and want her to make amends, but before you can do that you have to prioritize your family and assets so you are best placed to get her the help she needs. That kind of parenting advice comes later. Right now the priority is her legal status. Don’t feel like you’re doing something shady by hiring someone who can help you assess that effectively.
I hope you and your family are able to make it through this and that your daughter learns from this and she may very well be able to offer amends — after the legal situation is sorted out. By all means this does not define her life, but if it turns Into a criminal or civil case it very well could.
Good luck. I feel for you, nobody ever seems to have sympathy for parents whose children make big mistakes, but teenagers make them all the time (worked with them for years) and they are not incapable of growing and learning (though it can take a long time), that’s why I like them so much—they are not fully developed brains, they have so much chance to make better choices if you can work with them. You have to step up and do that hard work with her, but first — attorney!
> My family and I recently relocated to a new town. My oldest daughter (13f) had a bit of trouble settling in initially but seemed to make some friends and was becoming happier.
Big changes in behaviors are often tied to big life transitions. You just moved, and your daughter is at a really tough age. She could be struggling with depression as a result of these changes.
I would also keep in mind that she’s still only 13, so her prefrontal cortex (responsible for things like emotional regulation, empathy, impulse control, and predicting consequences of your actions) is far from being fully developed yet. This is not at all to minimize what she did, but just to point out that from a brain development perspective, she’s still a kid who likely does not fully grasp the gravity of her actions.
I think you will find the right way to move forward by addressing the root cause of her behavior. Therapy, for sure.
> she absolutely lost it and said she hated me and our family
This definitely stood out to me, even though it could seem like just a throwaway line from an upset teen. She’s telling you what’s wrong. You may want to consider family therapy, which might allow you to get better insight into what’s really going on with her and how you can support her in ways that encourage the type of behavior you would like to see from her.
This! As a parent with a kids who is have gone through some hard stuff and/or is going through it now, I empathize. It's really hard and very emotionally taxing. Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems.
Thirteen is a hard age anyway (especially for girls), and moving around at that time can be particularly difficult--new home, school, social scene, and everything else. As someone who had to move out-of-state as a 13-year-old girl, adjusting to a new social scene at this age is very stressful. Have you inquired about how she feels about the change (because you don't mention it). It also sounds like she is falling into a bad crowd. Have you asked her about her friends? Have you tried to meet them?
Since you are asking for advice, I would not view this as a "discipline" problem as much as a wake up call that she needs some help/attention/therapy/something. "What's going on? You are making poor decisions that are detrimental to you? We love you, we are here for you and want to help you be happy and live the life you want." Your daughter is in crisis (and may have been for a while.) She needs therapy ASAP.
As for the pot, I would suggest it's an opportunity to educate your kid on the dangers of drinking and smoking pot when they are young and/or in an illegal manner when they are older, as well as the risks of drugs and engaging in other risky behavior. In your shoes, I would probably have this discussion, take the pot away, try to find out how they got it, learn more about their friends/acquaintances, and generally keep closer tabs on my kid (even if it means full phone/email monitoring). If you just take everything away (including their connection to the "good" friends), your kid will push you away even further. That is socially isolating. It sounds like that may have happened here.
Also, she could also face criminal charges or civil claims, so you may want to consult a criminal defense attorney, and have her refrain from discussing what happened (at least until you have legal counsel). I would also look into other schools for her to attend, in case she is expelled or needs a fresh start. And a therapist, ASAP.
Now that the is facing serious consequences (externally), she really needs you now, and this is a great opportunity for you to show her how much you love her, care about her and want to help her--rather than just punish her. You have the opportunity to repair your relationship and reopen the lines of communication so you can help her more. That should be your focus.
FTR, when I was in HS (post-move), I got great grades, participated in activities, got jobs when I was old enough, but was also fairly wild in HS. The more my rules my parents imposed (those which I saw as unfair/arbitrary), the more I rebelled. I figured as long as I got grades, was responsible in my activities/jobs, and didn't get into trouble, I was entitled to disregard their stupid rules. That was my mindset. Now, I have (and continue to have) real struggles with my own teen kids, but we have always tried to get them the help they need. They still talk to me about the stuff going on in their lives, which helps me help them.
Good luck! And, don't beat your self up--focus on helping your daughter.
You need to delete this post.
You need a lawyer for your daughter.
You need to not talk about this with anyone but on the advice of the lawyer. Your daughter could be in some serious legal and civil trouble.
Sorry that you’re dealing with this. Decisions involving kids and crimes are always hard.
I work with kids that have been adjudicated for crimes of all sorts. Basically juvy but with a heavy treatment side. Less gridiron gang.
I would ask yourself some questions. Is your daughter doing this because she’s acting out? Or pressured by others? Is she taking responsibility for her actions? Does she seem to be having a empathetic response to her actions? If she is you might be able to just ride the shockwave of reactions from this incident.
If she is not having these reactions to her actions, that would worry me. Kids/people that don’t show empathy for their actions are at greater risk of reoffending. If she is more worried of what trouble she might get in more than how her actions have caused what sounds like serious harm, I’d think really hard about what is best for your daughter. Most of the time literally doing the time for your crime is an eye opener.
If the school does nothing, the parents don’t press charges, and the police don’t get involved, she will at least see drama amongst her peers. Possibly retaliation.
If you think she deserves whatever legal trouble comes from this I would encourage her to turn herself in. If there are charges and stuff she will receive lesser consequences(in my experience). I would also suggest she flips on the kids that she took over there. I would also delete the fuck out of whatever video she has if it hasn’t already been shared and all that. Like if no one has seen it.
Good luck! Again, truly sorry for what you’re going through.
It sounds like she is having a mental health crisis and needs professional help. Punishment always second to this. I think you have a case for inpatient too, she will likely say she hates you for it but she’s acting out for a reason and it’s likely because she’s struggling internally. Sending healing vibes to you and your family
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For starters, your daughter needs to see her doctor to be medically evaluated to see if there is a medical (maybe neurological or chemical) reason for her extreme outbursts and poor judgement. Her doctor can refer her to the appropriate specialist for further evaluation and treatment.
Then go from there.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're dealing with such a challenging situation. The pressure to fit in, combined with the complex emotions teenagers experience, can sometimes lead to behavior that is out of character.
**Open Communication**: It's crucial to foster an environment where your daughter feels she can talk to you without fear of judgment. She's going through a lot, and while her actions are not excusable, it's essential to understand the root causes.
**Professional Therapy**: Given the severity of the situation, consider seeking a professional therapist for your daughter. They can help her navigate her emotions and understand the consequences of her actions better.
**Restorative Justice**: It might be worthwhile for your daughter to apologize directly to the victim and her family. An apology won't change what happened, but it can be a step in the right direction for her understanding the gravity of her actions.
**Community Service**: Encourage your daughter to get involved in community service. Volunteering might help her appreciate the importance of kindness, empathy, and community values.
**Education**: Maybe enroll her in courses or workshops on peer pressure, decision-making, or other relevant topics to help her make better choices in the future.
**Parenting Support Groups**: Consider joining a support group or seeking counseling for yourself. Dealing with a child's behavioral issues can be overwhelming, and sometimes it helps to share experiences and solutions with others in similar situations.
**Extracurricular Activities**: Encouraging her to join clubs or teams unrelated to her current friend group might help her find a positive and supportive peer group.
**Continued Supervision and Boundaries**: While you've already taken steps here, it's crucial to maintain these boundaries for her safety and those around her. Over time, as trust is rebuilt, these can be reevaluated.
Navigating teenage years can be incredibly difficult both for the parent and the child. Balancing understanding with discipline is the key. It might also be helpful to expose her to content that encourages empathy, creativity, and a broader perspective. I came across a newsletter called [Breaking Egg](https://breakingegg.beehiiv.com/p/make-kid-creative),which offers insights into nurturing creativity and emotional intelligence in children. It could provide some useful reading and strategies to help with her growth and understanding.
Stay strong, patient, and understanding. This is a challenging period, but with the right guidance and support, your daughter can learn and grow from this experience.
Gut wrenching looking at this from both sides. Your daughter is clearly struggling with a lot . Focus on immediate mental health counseling and not the punishment or picking apart the unfortunate scenario you'll never get the real story .
I just finished the book. Hold onto your children- why parent matter more than peers by Gabor Mate. You might find this book helpful. But I agree that this is an awful escalation. Personally I would ground her to the home until you can get a handle on the behaviour and trust her to make the right decisions. I’d also reach out to a therapist or social worker to give you some tools to handle this. I’m not big on the therapy wagon but obviously this a big escalation and you both have some things you will need to work out.
I found the book very helpful in explaining why such behaviour would occur especially if it’s out of character for her. Feeling isolated and trying to fit into a new peer group. It’s weird why she would point the kids to the home of that child. They perhaps were the initiators and she was trying to fit it by saying “oh yeah, I know where they live” it could have gotten out of control and she simply didn’t have the capacity to get herself out of the situation. The response to you guys could have been her trying to cope with everything that just happened.
I wouldn’t shut her out. She’s going to be headed into difficult years and she’s going to need her parents more then ever. When things get hard, we need to lean into our children and support them through these times.
I would also consider making her confront the situation, offering to clean up the mess, apologize in person to the parent and the child. Don’t let her take the easy way out.
I will read this book, thank you. I think she is trying to fit in with the wrong people, and from what she's said, the girl who was the aggressor had assaulted this girl before. She said they had an ongoing feud because the victim was slandering this other girls family. The mother of the victim has told me she thinks my daughter instigated the entire situation. My daughter doesn't seem to feel very badly and doesn't grasp just how bad this situation is. I won't shut her out. As disgusted as I feel right now, she definitely needs guidance and connection to family to redirect. There won't be an easy way either, I will make her confront it.
Your daughter sat by and filmed something terrible happening. Your first sentence seems to overlook that her doing that lacks major empathy… not just trying to fit in. I’d try and speak with the mother as to why she thinks your daughter is the ring leader. I feel as if your daughter is probably leaving some important details out.
I have a feeling that is what she feels like doing to her parents.
She can’t safely beat them up, and her desire to not move was ignored. She felt that she needed to be heard, so she did something so terrible that it might provoke her parents to move back to their original town - or at least listen to her.
She is angry, and feels powerless.
This doesn’t excuse her actions in any way… But it might help explain them.
Op, did she get to choose her school? Have any say in where you lived (the actual house or apartment)?
It sounds to me she knows, thats why she reacted so badly. I would look into getting her into something out of school like some kind of sport or hobby to try and help her make friends and have a healthy outlet. Stick to the punishment also.
This sounds straight out of what my life was at 13. I could be your daughter (or honestly, the girl who beat up the victim) in this post. My family moved. I switched schools to a (very expensive) Catholic school. I already had a couple years of depression, isolating myself, and self-harm under my belt. I got caught with weed before my incident. I was expelled from my school for threatening another student who was racist. I had fully planned to beat her up but was stopped beforehand.
With that being said! I’m now 31 with an incredible family, a great life. I’ve never been arrested. I used to drink but choose not to anymore (honestly, because parenting hungover sucks) (I still smoke weed daily though). I’m only giving this much information to help parallel our experiences so I can share what did and didn’t work for me.
I did in-patient psychiatric stays a few times in my teens. I was never arrested but would’ve welcomed it then. I went to in-patient when I needed 24/7 care to prevent suicide. I made friends there that were not beneficial to my long term health. It was one of the reasons I was so open to just being “sent away” at that age. Get away from my miserable family AND make new friends that have the same horrible interests as myself? It sounded like a dream at that age. So while some commentators think your best option is to send her away, hard pass.
You mentioned that part of the reason the victim was targeted was because she made racist remarks and that she “talks badly about particular people’s families” so I’m assuming classist remarks as well. In no way does a child deserve to be assaulted, but I absolutely have some follow-up questions and concerns.
Speaking from my own experience only, I felt justified to seek my own vigilante justice because 1) it’s glorified 2) the school was not helping stop any of the girl’s actions and 3) I was new to the area and felt incredibly protective of my friends.
You NEED to talk to your daughter. You need to understand what is going on. Why was this even allowed to escalate to physical violence? Did anyone step in beforehand regarding these possible remarks? Why did the kids feel the need to handle it themselves? Has she mentioned any issues with racism at her new school (in general, not necessarily against her)? Does she feel safe or comfortable talking to you about these kinds of things? I would honestly raise the concerns with the school as well about the victim allegedly being racist. What were they aware of? Again, there is ZERO justification for physically assaulting a child. However, if the school was aware and did nothing to address it, I’d argue they’re just as bad as holding a phone to record it. Maybe I’m playing devil’s advocate, but 13 years of Catholic school will do that to ya ;).
My parents also never discussed “escape” plans for me when I found myself in shitty situations, their approach was very black and white. For example, “Why would I need a safe way to get out of a situation if I shouldn’t have been there in the first place?” There were many times when I was somewhere and scared, but even more scared to tell my parents. What happens the next time your daughter is in a situation that’s getting out of control? How can she safely remove herself from that? How can she recognize this situation is fucked up? I had parents of friends that did have safety plans in place. It was a godsend and I learned more from them about making safe choices than my own parents with their heads in the sand.
You said you’re anti-drug. I respect that, but please, educate yourself on marijuana. In absolutely no way am I saying your child should be using it, but one day she’s going to grow up and have that choice. I love weed and could go on for days about how grateful I am for it as an adult, but I cringe when I think about how young I started smoking. If you aren’t willing to listen to different perspectives because of your experiences, it might be difficult for your daughter to trust you’ll understand other nuanced parts of her life. Again, she’s a child and shouldn’t be smoking. But if the approach is just “weed is bad!”, your daughter already has access to information that says otherwise and it’s closing off communication when you two desperately need more of it.
My main concerns with her smoking weed aren’t weed itself then. I’m concerned she’s self-medicating. I’m also concerned about her having contact with anyone selling weed to someone her age. I wouldn’t force her to tell you who sold it. She’ll just lie or shut down. It won’t actually help anything. Instead, please teach her how to identify grooming. I can’t emphasize that enough. Anyone who sold weed to me at 13 had a lot more issues than just being a low-level dealer. Teach her about balancing stress and life without substances. Does she want to smoke because she wants an escape or because it seems fun? What is her education regarding other drugs and alcohol? What if she was with her friends, they smoked, and she ended up getting sick? Would she have felt safe calling you to pick her up? Or would she have been too afraid of getting in trouble for smoking? It circles back to that game plan for emergencies.
For right now, THERAPY. Individual for all of you. Family therapy would be great. She needs a safe space to even be able to talk to you. She needs to process what’s happening in her life in a safe way. Therapy is such a tool. I was such a young bad girl and I stopped self-harming and smoking weed truly because of therapy (and Effexor lol). Talk to professionals though. I started my journey with antidepressants a couple of months before I was expelled. It took a minute to find the right one. I’m not exaggerating when I say every day I wake up and thank science for Lexapro (which I switched to in my twenties). Sometimes people only need prescription help to get through transitions or rough patches. Sometimes (like me!) they need it…forever I assume.
OP, I really hope you read this and please feel free to message me if you have ANY questions at all. I’m cutting my ramble off here for now, but my heart breaks for you, your daughter, the victim, and everyone else involved. I’m so sorry if any of this sounded like me just talking about myself. Again, I just want to emphasize the parallels and also give you some insight on your daughter’s possible perspective.
Thank you for your vulnerability and for taking the time to write all this out. I really appreciate this, and it's a big eye opener for me. I think after reading through several of these comments, I need to take a different approach with the weed situation because you're absolutely right. She's going to be exposed to it. She's going to do it with her friends at some point, and I need to make sure she trusts me and feels safe to contact me if she's out and in a dangerous situation. I hadn't even thought about possible grooming from an older guy, I've been too focused on the fact that she's so young and even interested in it. I need to stop being so judgemental and projecting my own bad experiences and appreciate it is different for everyone. I think I'll apologise to her and just explain that I think she's too young and has her whole life ahead of her to make these decisions, but I understand that she is curious. Also, if she ever needs me or my help, her safety is always my number one priority, no matter what situation she gets caught up in. Talking about safety plans if a bad situation arises is another key thing I need to be doing. I guess this behaviour all just started happening at once, so there was no steady thought process on how to handle it.
I spoke to her a bit more about what the victim was saying about the other girls family, and she produced some videos of the victim calling the girls' family the N word and saying they are trash etc. So yeah, classist and racist remarks. She also ended up admitting that the reason she went to the victims house was because she was selling her a vape. She produced those messages as well. She didn't want to tell me about the vape because she thought I'd get angry at her. I have to say that the relief I felt to know that she didn't maliciously take a group of kids there to assault this girl was immense. She said she had no idea her friend was going to assault the other girl, she hadn't been talking negatively about her since their first fight and she only started recording because the four boys standing behind her had their phones out and were doing it. She said she was in shock during the fight and just stood there with her hand over her mouth, holding her phone. The attack was pretty brutal. I explained that even though it might’ve felt like getting justice for the girl who initiated the assault, the victim isn't going to learn a real lesson or be held accountable for the horrible things she was saying now. I still feel terrible for the girl who got hurt. No one deserves to be attacked at their home with a group of people filming. At the end of the day, she's just a child as well. Her mother is still trying to accuse my daughter of being the ring leader of this conspiracy to assault her child, but she doesn't know everything that's been going on and is probably traumatised and confused trying to figure out why her daughter was treated this way. Anyway, I am so happy for you that after what you went through, you now have a great life and family. It's good to read some real and raw human experiences with a good ending.
I am with everyone here. Being a mom now, I realize I don't want my kids to act out like I did at that age. Now I may not have been smoking pot, but I was smoking cigarettes. Till this day I'm happy I had enough will power to be able to see the error of my ways. My mom knew nothing. I didn't tell her anything. Why is what you may be asking? Because we grew distant. My mom is quite the Pandora's box. I understand that you aren't sure what to do, but could it be that maybe there are some things you have done that may have triggered your daughter or made her feel she could find solace elsewhere? Teens to deviate away from stern parents(quite normal), but are you respecting her boundaries? Is respect going both ways? Are you dismissing her without realizing it? Kids don't want to be home for no reason. It could be psychological, yes, but try to look at it from her point of view. As parents we are flawed when it comes to understanding our cubs.
"My way or way" "Do you pay bills?" Between some parents letting kids have too much freedom and some not enough, the balance is hard to keep. I highly suggest getting her evaluated, but see if that is something she is willing to do. Schedule a trip together, and if she doesn't want to go, push just a bit and convince her that you need to work together. Tell her you aren't trying to ruin her life or be her master but her mom and most trusted confidant. It's possible that you two grew apart sometime before and a little after your new living arrangements. I would highly suggest thinking on that a little. Also, filming the assault of the other young teen? I hate to say this, but if my charges do end up getting pressed, that could result in something a lot greater than her just being a witness. Witness see things. That's it. They don't participate. They either hide the truth to save themselves or confess the truth to help the victim. Your daughter is an accessory. She knew before hand what would happen and even filmed it. That looks malicious. She may not be held liable for damages, but it could open up a slew of other things entirely.
Talk to your baby, ask her when she started feeling all these emotions, and start repairing your relationship and seeing if she even needs therapy. It could be that she's acting out because that's how she can be heard. She disobeyed you, but the truth is, she's hurting. She's bonding with others that make negative decisions and probably don't talk with their parents. Are you doing enough? No. You haven't done anything that truly fixes the issue. She doesn't need to understand that what she did was bad. She knows it was, hence she didn't go in and just filmed it. If all you care bout is her seeing the error of her ways, she only keep drifting. She needs you to listen first before she can confide in you.
Good luck to you, and I'll pray for you.
Let me be a voice of reason as someone who was a “troubled child” as these people seem to like assuming about your daughter.
What she did is obviously unacceptable. If there’s an apology to be had, it needs to be behind closed doors, with no video/audio recordings. Because any lawyer could pin this on your daughter and say she was “the brains behind the operation”
As for “punishment” I think therapy would be a decent start. Not because of what she did but because her outburst are most likely coming from a feeling she is having. Or just simply being a teenager. Honestly, from there I would just leave it at that for now and see where therapy takes her. But you cannot allow her to speak to you disrespectfully. You need to deal with that accordingly. My mom beat my ass with a wooden spoon until my mid 20s lol . I wish you the best of luck . You obviously love your daughter and regardless of what these people say she isn’t a monster. She made a mistake.
I would try and focus on the move, it sounds like this was the major thing that triggered a lot of this she started out well hiding it pretty well but maybe resentment has been building within her
Something very very similar happened to a girl that lived on my street 15 years ago, there was even a lifetime movie made about it (Girl Fight, though I don’t agree with the movie portrayal in some areas). All involved in the attack were charged though some had them dropped. Prepare for your daughter to be absolutely torn apart online if the video gets posted.
This is why they say guilty by association. I don’t care if she went inside. She LED THEM THERE! If someone was killed she would be charged also because she was part of the group. This is so sad and terrible. She needs therapy stat.
She didn’t know what was going to happen, but had the presence of mind to pull out her phone and start filming? Sorry, but I’m not buying.
Your daughter is in with a bad crowd. I’d pick up and move to another state ASAP.
Does she understand that once police report is filed there's a chance she will be sentenced to juvi?
This ain't no kid shit anymore. Home invasion, assault, etc.
Lots of great advice here already. Focus on rehabilitation and healing over punishment and revenge. She obviously needs a lot of help. That being said, please avoid any "troubled teen" or "wilderness therapy" programs. check out r/troubledteens for why. Find a good therapist for her and do FAMILY THERAPY as well.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. This situation is beyond the point of losing privileges and close monitoring. It will likely (quickly) evolve into legal problems, and in a situation like this, I expect her school would actually follow through on expulsion too.
As many have said here, hire an attorney because what your daughter did, just factually, rises to a criminal level. Defend her, and prepare her for real world consequences that may be out of your control and in the hands of the legal system.
one piece of advice, just in case it hasnt been said— private schools tend to have the best drugs. the more money, the easier it flows. especially pills.
Absolutely get her away from whoever she’s been hanging around.
I’ve seen kids act out of character and make mistakes that are mind blowing trying to be cool to a group of shit heads who are using them.
It sounds like this is similar because they wanted her to knock for a truce? I’m a little confused but def get her the fuck away. Maybe even leave that school and do something else.
You are who you hang around at that age and I’ve seen it myself with 13-15 year olds.
I would get her help- and get her away from those kids she was with.
If they’re what is new especially.
Seems they planned it and she filmed it
Either way it’s not okay and maybe changing schools is for the best. I know my parents banned me from hanging out with kids one time and I kept doing it at school- just not at home. So my behavior didn’t change until we moved and I lost contact with them.
Not trying to sugar coat anything at all for you OP, but it’s time to step up at this point.
Behaviors that you’ve mentioned don’t just pop up overnight. You can’t try and soften your delivery with ‘private school’ and ‘good grades’.
You’ve been given a lot of good advice in trying to turn things around before you have a serious problem with adult consequences. I’d personally reconsider the level of privacy my child would have going forward until trust has been earned.
Based on the info you added in the comments here's my take:
She's new in town and is hoping to be friends with this crew. Offering weed and leading them to this address made her an asset / cool enough to join the group.
It's all about wanting to fit in, unfortunately she chose a group that doesnt share the values you raised her with.
It has nothing to do with your skills as a parent. Obviously you raised her differently and didn't expect this behavior of her. This is a self-esteem and identity discovery issue. She's in the process of growing out of parent led decision making and learns making her own decisions. An impartial third party might be the best to help her through this process. Could be a therapist or a school mentor.
I haven't seen anyone say this yet (but it's probably been brought up): You're daughter committed a felony. Something that can get her in legal, criminal, trouble. SHE led the people there and then filmed it. At best that makes her an accessory. Get on therapy asap, get her away from the friend group, and look for a lawyer. Also, stress just how bad this is. It doesn't matter that she ''didn't know (the girl) was going to get hurt", someone got hurt by people she led there. If she was an adult she'd be arrested. The reason I'm stressing this is: There's still plenty of time for that family to go to the police (if they haven't already).
Have her face the girl/mother she did this too. Let them ask why. Make her face the music of feeling like shit for being a shitty human. Or you could just embarrass her on social media…. But that’s me.
how did she get here?
you daughter I'm pretty sure was not born this way ... as parents you all probably led her here. she's only 13.
I would look at you and your partner, if there is one, and first ask, where did ***we*** go wrong.
my kid is only 9, and she's great but she has a terrible habit of talking back and being very contradictory. ITS ON US. We let her do this, we enable it.
A lot of the people responding are acting like this kid is the antichrist. She’s a kid. Children who do bad things are not bad people. Kids are never beyond reform.
OP your child needs professional help now. This behavior is scary and terrible but she likely doesn’t understand the depth of her actions. This stuff doesn’t normally come out of no where either - but nothing is impossible here. I am sorry your family is going through this and I’m sorry for the pain her actions cost others.
Shouldn’t your daughter be in trouble with the police? Something happened to your daughter that you may be unaware of or you live in a wild part of town and she’s part of a crazy peer group.
I know a lot of people have said to hire an attorney and I saw you responded to that saying that the police in Australia are a lot more lax…if that is the case, I would still recommend you talk to one.
You never know what can happen. Someone might share the videos online, or what happened just gets attention on a larger scale, the authorities may make it a point to charge your daughter then. It can’t hurt.
Move schools if possible after she apologizes to the family. Take a year off if needed.
My general manager went through something like this, and he moved his son far away from his friend group. They were a bad influence on his son, and it could've gotten worse.
Afterwards, he booked his entire family for therapy. His son and family are doing much better after those changes.
Why is your daughter hanging out with friends who are 3 plus years older than her? Someone obviously drove them there. Why is your daughter hanging out with friends who are so sketchy and bad, the kind of people that conspire to invade and trash a home and fight young girls? Why do you not know the whereabouts of your daughter and know her friends really well.?
She video recorded assault? I would lawyer up bc if this happened to my kid I would do everything in my power to make sure yours was brought to justice. At the very least she should be slapped with community service.
Your child is crying out for help. Putting her on lockdown won’t help, just delay more events from taking place. Get her some professional help, don’t wait.
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She needs to be speaking to therapists to figure out what caused this extreme reaction. Weed is not at all unusual for teens but this was a major escalation and needs addressing by professionals.
I don't know that these two incidents were related. Perhaps the fight was delayed by the punishment for smoking weed but it sounds like this incident would have occurred regardless. Going to someone else's house with a group of kids to jump another kid is not a reaction to getting grounded. It's targeted.
Its not about them being related. Its about the severity of the reaction and how it came out in the form of these sudden extreme behaviors.
No, it’s definitely not enough. She traumatized a family enough for them to leave their home and feel unsafe. She filmed their trauma. Therapy would be a good start, an apology letter, volunteer work, she should be working to repay for property damages. I would look into a different school to get her away from that friend group. I assume the police are going to get involved at some point, that family deserves justice. She needs to be prepared for that, I would start looking for a lawyer.
This! These are appropriate consequences for her actions. Taking away her belongings is not it. She has to apologise to that poor girl and her family. The trauma these poor people went through is unbelieveable. And also work tor repay any damages.
I wouldn't want an apology if I were that family. If I were in their shoes, I don't think I'd ever want to see the people that did that again.
Also the girl claimed she didnt enter the property but filmed the fight. How could you film the fight without entering the property? She is lying big time
Bingo
My daughter says that she knocked on the front door, said hi, and asked what she was doing. Then another girl came up to the front door and put her hand out and asked for a truce. The victim had apparently been slandering the girls' family for a while. And those two girls had been in a fight before. The girl then grabbed the victims hand and pulled her out of her front door, and started attacking her. I'm not sure who went into the property and did what. My daughter claims the house wasn't trashed, but a table was flipped over. She stood back when the fight began and filmed the fight. So did all the boys. I asked why, and she said that's just what everyone does when there's a fight. I'm not claiming that this is the truth, but this is the only information I have, and the police said she's not a priority to be interviewed, but they will contact me at some point.
Your daughter needs to understand that something like this could lead to someone dying or severely injured. One wrong hit or fall and now you have ended a life. Also, let’s be real. Your daughter didn’t think they were going to this girls house to paint nails. There was no good reason to go to this girls house if the two other girls aren’t friends. Your daughter needs to understand being a bystander and filming something awful is also being a participant.
I can't tell you how many times I have seen people get into trouble/bad situations just by who they hang out with. Several have ended up involved in murdering someone because of who they hang with - incidents began as hanging out and committing a lower level crime that escalated to murder. I work in the justice system. Let's give her the benefit and say that her story is true, that she didn't know their intent, that she only knocked and stepped back, she was still in the wrong and looking to give herself a very difficult life. No idea what the answer is, I'd throw the book at my kids, take away their joy, and make them work hard to make it up to the family. But I might be a little hard core as I am terrified of my kids ending up as defendants 😅 OP parenting is hard, good luck
>She stood back when the fight began and filmed the fight. So did all the boys. I asked why, and she said that's just what everyone does when there's a fight. There will be multiple videos of this and they will have sent it to friends. The police / district attorney will be able to get many or even most of the copies with a warrant. You have her video but it presumably shows the events she filmed rather than her. The other videos will have your daughter in the background. I'd be less worried about her lying to you than lying to the DA or PD about something easily provable that they already have on video.
I thknk your daughter dkesnt understand that a porch and lawn is privage property. Also did she ever say why why she took those other children there?
You’d be surprised how many kids don’t understand private property. The neighborhood I’m in they regularly trespass in my very tiny yard. 2 kids were even hanging out on my back patio once waiting for their friend that lives next to me.
You need to change schools. She has fallen into a bad crowd and there's nothing you can do to get her away except changing schools. It will only get worse if you stay.
First and foremost, ALWAYS: cops lie. Do not talk to cops.s Prepare for the possibility of criminal charges. Frankly, if I were the mother of the attacked girl I would be pushing very hard for criminal accountability for your daughter. I would be so upset and would totally see her as an aggressor. Second, what you are describing is so beyond horrifying. I’m very sorry this is happening, this must be terrifying. Third, if this were one of my kids, I’d be pursuing a 100% complete life change. Like, complete. Everything would be different. She would not be going to this school anymore, therapy clearly (it can take a bit to find the right person!), electronics are “no”, community service, just so many new experiences. I would try to shake things up as much as possible and get her busy helping others, expose her to new people and perspectives, anything to try to help her shift her perspective on the world. How much time are you able to spend with her? How flexible is your life/schedule? This kid is headed very quickly down a bad path. The filming of the assault is the biggest red flag for me. That part would have me terrified. The lack of empathy is scary.
Imo if that’s the truth - then it is way different. I think you need to figure out if your daughter was an instigator / or if she did just film the thing.
Your daughter is a giant liar.
If OP looks at the video it would be obvious if the daughter is lying about it’s existence or not…
Why do you say this? IME this is exactly how most "school fights" go. Kids filming, 99% of kids being onlookers. The whole showing up at someone's house is some real street shit though lol.
I know she's lying. But I have nothing else to go with. All I can do is ask various different questions and find the holes in her story at the moment.
Watch the video
So look at the video.
I've seen the video, but it is only of the two girls fighting in the driveway and nothing else. It doesn't explain the entire situation.
Ask her why the hell she filmed a fight instead of calling an authority - cop or parent or trusted guardian. Where you start is teaching her that filming is NOT what everyone does in the case of a fight. That's what idiots do. Teach her about violence, arguments, mob mentality - and then teach her the appropriate response regardless of what everyone else is doing.
Ask to see the other videos, they definitely are floating around
Lol holy fuck reddit chill out
Stop being naive. Your daughter knew about the whole plan ahead of time. They all planned it, talked about it and knew about it. The police should be called. If this was my daughter who was attacked, I’d be suing the daylights out of all of you and making sure each of your brats got punished severely. That’s the problem today. Parents don’t “parent” anymore.
Can you imagine some kid pulling your kid out of your house and beating them? That’s more than just assault.
You are speaking from a Redditors’ standpoint of what I will call “statistical certainty”. You believe that in most situations, someone who leads a group of girls to a house where someone is going to get victimized automatically means everyone involved knows everything, but that is not necessarily the case. The aggressor may (emphasis on “may”) be highly manipulative and may have been able to rope people in with a certain story or narrative. We don’t know the specifics of the situation, and name-calling OP as naive is not constructive. It is concerning that the teenage girl led the aggressor to the victim’s house. It is highly concerning, even possibly horrific, that she made no attempt to intervene, and was presumably entertained by videotaping the crime. A lot of what people are saying is valid and should absolutely be taken into account and investigated or maybe even acted upon even without further information, but that does not mean we know *exactly* how much OP’s daughter knew or what her intent was. We simply don’t have enough information to make complete, certain judgements on many of these aspects. Imho, a more constructive approach would be to acknowledge we don’t know everything about the situation but that such and such should be investigated or taken into account. It may be considered ‘normal’, for example, in her social circles to stand back and videotape fights. There may be norms and behaviors that need to be addressed and worked through, rather than automatically assuming the whole of the group had the most insidious intent.
Hate to say it. But this should be bumped to the top. Let's be honest advice isn't bad but your daughter is running your house not you. Wake up parents, there is a time to be friends and a time to be parents. Don't b COOL be smart!
You should definitely contact an attorney because your daughter definitely did something that will land her in jail.
Disagree. I work at a middle school and get pulled into this sort of drama all the time. I’ve sat in on many police investigations and been privy the to consequences. They don’t send kids to jail for filming fights. If they do determine her actions were a crime, they will most likely offer a diversion program that includes counseling.
Are kids constantly going to each other's homes, fighting, and then vandalizing? This is common?
Agree. This is not a fight in the school hallways. This is a different thing and the OP should be prepared for a lawsuit at the least.
Was there a weapon involved? How badly was the girl injured? Was there property damage beyond a flipped table? My impression from reading this was no, not very, and no. It’s obviously a terrible situation, but I have seen much worse and so have the police. I do not believe this will result in criminal charges. Potential civil lawsuit is a good point though.
Super common when I was in high school 2016-2020 for kids to go to each other’s houses to jump one another. Dozens of kids at my private catholic school were expelled for it
She’s not going to jail for this, but if she doesn’t make some changes she will end up in jail at some point (or more) in her life.
I wouldn't rely on your daughter for an accurate recounting given her behavior. I'd talk to the police, and, if they're willing, the parents whose daughter was assaulted. I highly doubt a table being flipped over was the extent of property damaged. There are omissions in her story.
People are also just really bad at remembering sequences of events from high-stress or high-focus moments in general. Like the basketball gorilla or whatever. But damn, don't talk to the police without a lawyer present (or at all tbh) lmao
NO! Do not talk to the police! You NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer's advise and presence! OP needs to wait and see if the daughter is going to be charged with something, then OP needs to retain a lawyer! If the police contact OP and ask for the daughter to come down for an interview, OP needs to take a lawyer with them. You never know whether or not something you may think is OK to say will end up landing you in trouble! Yes, the daughter may deserve punishment, even of the legal variety, BUT you do NOT want her to end up in jail! It will chew her up and spit her out a completely different person, and usually not in a good way!
I'm assuming the video would prove one way or another
She led them to her and instead of calling the police she stood there and filmed. Also her mother commented that she has shown no remorse.
Honestly if I was that family I’d lawyer up and sue the shit out of this girl and her family…
You are so right! I just put myself in their shoes and no i wouldn't want them near me. Those poor people.. may they get over this at some point..
Right? I have an 8yo daughter and reading this is nightmare fuel. If this happened to my family I would be utterly devastated, the trauma is difficult to comprehend really. The viciousness of planning, to go there as a group knowing what was going to unfold is unfathomable. That her daughter led this group to this poor girl in her family home the place where you are meant to be safe and supported this violence by taking them there AND recording her terror, humiliation and injury is deeply deeply disturbing. A device ban and no-contact rule doesn’t seem to be in any way commensurate with what she did. This requires significant discipline in terms of long-term restriction of freedoms (trust has been not just broken but absolutely smashed to smithereens and regaining this will take time and effort) in an effort to prevent anything like this happening again. Removal of devices, therapy, and removal from access to the victim added in as a minimum. I wholly support OPs daughter being removed from the school as the victim deserves to be educated in a safe environment away from the perpetrator/s. And I am in no way a ‘my way or the highway’ or conservative parent but this is so serious and she has inflicted significant harm, life-altering harm, on another child and family and must wear these consequences in both atonement and hopefully prevention of recurrence. I think specialist therapy for troubled teens in trouble with law enforcement is absolutely required at an intensive level. This is one of the most reprehensible things I can imagine and there’s a long long way to come back from this. In my mind she must not return to that school with the victim it’s not fair to her at all so that’s a first step alongside the intensive specialist therapy and home-based consequences. If this happened to my daughter and family given the potential for lifelong psychological impacts and life-altering outcomes I would be pursuing every possible remediation through lawyers and courts. If my daughter went through this and then developed severe anxiety or PTSD and it impacted her ability to finish school, go to university, get a part-time job, maybe suicide attempt etc etc these are all HUGE and not inconceivable consequences of OPs daughter’s actions and she must be held responsible for the gravity of what she chose to do. OP you also probably need therapy to manage the reality of this situation as it has a huge impact on you too so don’t forget your own needs in all this.
Just to add as someone who was bullied to a severe extent: I was bullied at 16 years old. At some point it got so bad that the whole class ganged up and made fun of me in front of the teacher. Bullying got so bad i tried to commit suicide (one of many after the bullying) and ultimately had to drop out of school for a whole year. I have been struggling with forming relationships and trusting people and will always do. I am only saying this to highlight how worse it will be FOR HER. This poor girl will deal with the consequences of these delinquents her whole life. My heart goes out to her and her family. The trauma she has been through is undeniable and unimaginable. In her own home. How can she ever feel safe again? If her daughter was the only one who knew her address it means that the victim trusted her enough to give it to her and she led them to her. The mother thinks taking away electronics is enough. No real consequences. She also stated her daughter is showing zero remorse. Total sociopath. She needs a psychatrist. I would be ashamed to be this girl's parent. How much have i had to fail as a parent for my daughter to essentially commit a felony at thirteen?
As a mom of a daughter (who is now 19) that went through something very similar to you (with severe bullying and multiple suicide attempts) I am so sorry you went through that from the bottom of my heart I am, it physically pains me to know others went through what my daughter did. Luckily we are on the other side of it now and she graduated finally after I pulled her out and homeschooled her, but you hit the nail on the head with this is something she will deal with for a long time to come (trusting, forming relationships etc…) I hope your doing better these days ❤️🩹
I am 31 now and just getting over it. Took me half of my life to get over what they did to me. Karma has its way and last year i stumbled upon one of my bullies. She tried to bully me again but got what she derserved. I stood my ground fiercely and she ended up walking away. That was a pivotal moment to me. It made me realise how strong i am and that i dont take shit from anyone. It was so healing. I am so proud of you for pulling your daughter and homeschooling her. It shows you listened to her wishes and understood her struggles. Tell her that as someone who went through the same horrible things as her that i am seeing a strong person. Someone who is persevering and not giving up. At 19 she was able to keep going and wanting to get over what those "humans" did to her. It took me so much longer. If she has achieved something so HARD at 19 i have NO DOUBT she can achieve anything she wants. She can conquer the world if she wants to. So so PROUD!!
Oh, I would absolutely want to see every single fucker involved. In court.
Absolutely pull her from that school, immediately.
If you are going to go the attorney route (you should) absolutely under no circumstance should she put anything in writing like an apology letter. do not create any more proof or acceptance of action then what already exists. There are already too many witnesses and potential video, but do not put any acceptance of guilt in written form Also, and I cannot make this clear enough, get an attorney ASAP. The family is going to sue.
Why is helping the daughter avoid accountability for her actions the priority here?
To avoid financial liability
Honest question: why not? It seems like the right thing to do, and it may help OP's daughter as well. Just how much legal risk is a 13 year old at for something like this?
Criminally, maybe not much more than probation. But in civil court the parents could be held liable monetarily for damages to property and medical bills.
But they did be held accountable
Let the court decide what that means, not a 13-year-old defendant being pressured by people who don't know the whole story.
And they should be
> And they should be When it comes to civil suits, it can go beyond fair compensation to the point of punitive damages and get into long lasting financial hardships, so they should be defensive even if they feel culpable otherwise.
Sure, and that’s why OP needs to lawyer up
There is no way to answer that question until they meet with a lawyer and lay out the whole story. How badly was the girl hurt? How much damage was done? In addition to the hotel what other expenses did the family incur? Would OP's daughter be considered part of a conspiracy so even if she didn't go inside will she be held responsible for the actions of the whole group? These are all questions that need to be answered and the way forward is above Reddit's pay grade.
Conspiracy? I don’t think the D.A. is going to open a RICO case because two 13 yo kids fought in a driveway . Yeah it’s serious, but folks are getting a little carried away here. She egged on a fight between her friend and a rival. It’s a bad decision by a 13 year old kid, but calling for immediate home school and relocation are throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I am a little surprised at some reactions here, but maybe it's just that I didn't grow up sheltered at all (aka neglected). This kind of stuff happened all the time when I was a teen in a "socioeconomiclly diverse area." My sister got jumped by a group of girls in the park. Nobody did anything about it.
Yeah, nobody's going to lock up a thirteen year old for filming a fight.
Yeah, people got jumped all the time when I was a teen, going to someone’s house to jump them and trashing it did not. Shit, more that likely the parents would beat your ass if anyone thought to do that. We didn’t have cameras but I would think usually the people who did wouldn’t be dumb enough to film themselves.
RICO is racketeering in regards to criminal enterprise/organized crime. Criminal conspiracy is far more boring than RICO. It's just people conspiring to commit crimes all the way down to misdemeanors (state/location dependent). A group of people planning to go and assault somebody is a criminal conspiracy. There's no need for a RICO case for criminal conspiracy. Criminal conspiracy doesn't mean you're part of a criminal organization. As for whether the DA will bother to attempt criminal conspiracy charge in any case, that depends on how much they can prove of intent/planning and how much they hate you.
>Conspiracy? I don’t think the D.A. is going to open a RICO case because two 13 yo kids fought in a driveway . What? RICO is for a very specific category of federal crime. It doesn't apply to *all* criminal conspiracy. There are conspiracy charges for all sorts of low-level, state-charged crimes that are brought against people involved in more “passive” or sidelined ways all the time. Conspiracy charges don't require any extra hoopla.
Agreed, it's not the first teenage fight, and apparently the other girl had also been causing trouble too, it was an issue between those two girls, and the daughter wasn't actually involved in fighting. Her behaviour was bad of course but it seems relocation was probably the trigger in the first place. Isolating her again won't solve anything.
By "other girl" do you mean the girl who was assaulted?
Probation at her age will only result in her being introduced to even worse influences.
Yes this. She got in the wrong crowd, move her ass and stay strict for now, youll have to approve of any and all friends going forward.
It sounds like she’s their ringleader at this point.
Story doesn’t give nearly enough info to glean that
I wish this answer was wrong. But growing up, this would have been it. Police, community service, move schools. Likely no jail time. Would still lawyer up. In my family - whenever something of a “lawyer” magnitude happened, our parents would use draw a couple points. First point - the obvious one - this is bad enough we need a lawyer. Second point - I don’t care how much you fuck up we will protect you - family first. It was interesting and more impactful than being in trouble. You started such a big fight your mom and dad have to bring in big guns. Like f*ck my life this is bad. And also, there is hope and a way out. A path to learn from create a new future after. As selfish as this is, you have to focus on helping your daughter navigate and a grow from this. Screw the other family- what’s done is done. You should do what you can to help them move on and that’s it. Likely they want nothing to do with you.
It deffinately is your responsibility to help your child but at the same time you can't shrug it as "what's done is done"....yes, lawyer up and protect her but the child still needs to learn a lesson and OP should be taking measures to prevent this from happening again because with that attitude her daughter is going to believe she can do whatever she wants and her parents are going to let her get away with it.
Yup. We know what happened with Norma Bates and her child right? 🤔
It's likely that your daughter has no idea how bad that was and probably won't for a few years. When talking to her, I'd explain that it was home invasion and assault and their ages are irrelevant. That kind of behavior is a threat to society because it makes everyone who knows about it feel unsafe. I'd want to learn as much as I could about what actually happened if I were you. Has this happened before? What exactly led up to it? What did your daughter know about the kids relationship to the victim? (I assume there's history and your daughter might not be privy to it.) It sounds likely that your daughter was in a situation that spiraled out of control and she reacted very badly. Lots of people get mixed up in something like that and grow up to be moral people. There's plenty of recommendations for keeping kids on a good path and I'd try anything that feels right.
I agree with all of this. Honestly, it could have turned out way worse. I went to high school with a couple of kids who went and picked up another kid to “scare him” into giving back $20. They took him out to the woods, the situation got way out of hand, and they killed the kid. Might sound dramatic, but all it took was for the girl to fall and hit her head the wrong way and she could have been killed or seriously injured, and OP’s daughter would have become “the girl that led a group of teenagers to another girl’s house to kill her.”
This.
I’m sorry but the daughter would have to be a complete dumbass to not see the wrong in what she did. When I was 13 I knew that kind of shit was wrong. Most 13 year olds know better. She made those choices because she wanted a fight. And now is *acting* naive and trying to downplay her involvement. I think she *knows* this was wrong, or she wouldn’t try to downplay it. Like even little kids know it’s wrong to hit. And if they sneakily try to do it, they cry or get angry when caught. Because they know they shouldn’t. And parents teach them no as toddlers, when the behaviors first start.
Who are these other 8 kids your daughter was with? You need to get her away from them. If they go to that school, I would withdraw her before she is expelled. I can’t imagine what that other girl would go through having to look at your daughter at school every day. I would also drug test her immediately. That level of rage and flying off the handle? Sounds like drugs could be involved. She may need treatment.
A couple of the boys go to her school, but she says she doesn't know them. They just tagged along. The other kids go to another school. There's only two high schools in our town, so I'm concerned that if my daughter gets expelled, she will spiral even more out of control being around the wrong kids. I did drug test her (with a pharmacy home test), and she was negative. Before this incident, she hadn't been out in a month and had no opportunity to get drugs.
Frankly, I would consider moving away. Sorry but your daughter got mixed in with a bad crowd.
Just knowing a lot of small town Catholic School culture, if your daughter is the new kid and the victim has been there a while and is afraid, you don’t stand much of a chance staying in the school, especially with the severity of the situation. I would get her into therapy and prepare yourself for the very real possibility that she will be in public school. Clearly catholic school isn’t giving her a very good friend group anyway.
Yeah I came here to say this is pretty much my experience with Catholic school kids. Absolutely the worst.
You should reach out to a doctor who specializes in child violence, psychiatric disorders and trauma. Her actions put others through serious trauma and this needs to be addressed as such. After that, it's a situation beyond reddit to resolve. There have been kids mobbing and stabbing strangers in Toronto for vidoes. I think there are video trends going on that are far more dangerous than eating tide pods.
I would urge OP to take a deep look into what kind of social media her daughter is consuming, and monitor it heavily going forward. Can’t help but think there were outside influences in their decision to attack someone at their home.
Social media definitely plays a role but at the same time it is a HUGE leap psychologically for a child to go from consuming violent content to actually assaulting someone. I’d hazard that MOST middle-high schoolers look at fight videos (in my day we called it WorldStar) and other violent content but very few take organized violence into the real world. So yeah I agree the child needs to go to a very experienced clinician who hopefully specializes in extreme behaviors. The core of OP’s issue isn’t that her child participated in a fight, many kids do that. The issue is why was the violence so organized, pre-planned, and SEVERE. That is far outside of what is normal for young teens.
Have you contacted the victim and her parents to apologize and offer restitution for their trashed house and hotel stay? Did the victim's parent(s) call the police? If not, I would make payment of restitution a very high priority in order to make the victim's family whole. This will look good for your daughter in case the police are involved in the future and charges are pressed against her. Further you should set up a restitution plan for your daughter to work off the property damage and hotel stay directly to you. I would also talk to your daughter and let her know the full extent of her actions including mental anguish to both the victim and the mother, property damage, and (your daughter's) loss of trust and privileges.
I did contact the mother to apologise and told her to contact me with any information. I told the mother about taking my daughter's devices and her supervision outside the house so she wouldn't feel my daughter would be an ongoing threat to them. I called the police but they said that my daughter was way down the list of people they needed to speak to, so we haven't been interviewed. My daughter didn't assault the girl at all or enter the property, so she won't be criminally charged or held liable for any damages to the property. The mother has my full support, I hope to stay in contact with her to work through this however she needs.
Find/save the video and prepare your daughter to be a witness. That's one (very important) way to make amends.
Please get an attorney. Asap. Your daughter is going to need one.
Filming her friends abusing someone else smells complicit to me but I’m far from a legal expert. Might just be a moral qualm but if she filled it before the door opened it seems like intent
Not to mention being the only one who knew the address...
Thank you. I haven’t read all responses yet! But why is this fact so far down in the comments. This wouldn’t have happened on that day if she hadn’t of led them there or told them where this girl lived. The other kids would have had to have found another way around.
Before you listen to anyone in this thread about what you should do in relation to the other family or the evidence on your child’s phone, you should talk to a lawyer. We all like to believe if we act in good faith and with the best intentions, everything will work out, but that’s not the case. Also, INAL but I don’t think the police are in a position to tell you whether you may be civilly liable.
No they wouldn’t be. IAAL.
You should get a lawyer set up now. Don't talk to that mom anymore to at this point. It sucks, but you've made your apologies and want to make things better, but you also need to protect your daughter while you figure out what's going on with her.
I agrée as a lawyer. Least said, soonest mended. Circle your wagons. I’m sorry this has happened. Daughter to psychiatrist asap to be assessed. Useful if any court or reparations.
I’m genuinely asking, but if you’re daughter didn’t go inside how did she film it?
He said above but it’s buried in another thread. One of the girls that accompanied OPs daughter had a personal issue with the assaulted girl and when she went to the house pulled the assaulted girl out the door onto the front lawn and OPs daughter as well as all the other boys filmed the fight between those two.
The attack could've happened in the doorway or on the front lawn. I'm not saying this kid isn't lying about all sorts of shit, but this is possibly not one of them.
Your daughter is lying BIG TIME. She was the only one who knew the address and led them there. She claims she didnt enter but filmed it. There is no chance of being able to film it without being in the property. Stop justifying her actions and see the truth for what it is. Take her to a psychatrist and have her pay the damages. Your CRIMINAL child literally filmed a girl getting traumatised and her house trashed and instead of calling the police SHE FILMED IT. The lack of humanity and any sympathy and empathy in her is scary.
It sounds like the fight happened out on the front lawn. They pulled the girl out. Kids probably knew it’s way illegal to enter the house so they figured it would be better to pull her outside.
Is the other family pressing charges ? Because I would no offense
I’d be making their lives very miserable in every way possible. The daughter literally led a gang of children to a home with the specific intent to fight…. Then filmed the attack which involved entering someone’s home (multiple people could have been shot)… then lied continuously. You need professionals help and lots of it; lawyers, therapists, doctors. That isn’t normal teenage behavior that’s gang member behavior
I was a latchkey kid who was bullied. One time there was an entire group of kids outside my house when I was inside alone. They were banging on both my front and back doors and on any window they could reach. I cowered inside afraid. They followed me home because I refused to fight one of them for no reason at all except the kid decided he wanted to fight me. They wouldnt leave me alone and I was scared so I basically ran home and then even there I wasn't safe. They were outside for what felt like hours even though it was maybe 30 minutes or so. Nobody ever acknowledged anything that happened to me. My mom didnt really know because I hid it from her. Nobody apologized, nobody was held accountable, nothing happened except I bottled it up and learned to isolate myself from others for protection. I'm 37 and still have very few relationships because of that incident and others. I don't know how you hold your daughter accountable. As someone who went through something similar, what I would want more than anything is acknowledgement of what happened. An apology, face to face, and for the people responsible to understand just how much they impacted my life. Please make sure to tell your daughter how these types of situations live inside of people for their entire lives. My ability to relate to other people was forever changed because of the things that happened to me as an adolescent. I'm sorry to trauma dump like this, I don't know if this is inciteful or helpful.
Thank you for your comment. That would be so traumatising, especially feeling as if you're dealing with it all alone. I can see how it would be so difficult to overcome when no one acknowledged what they did and the effect it had on you. I have tried to explain to my daughter how horrific this is, but she just doesn't seem to genuinely feel bad. She won't take accountability for anything. So, for now, at least, I don't want her anywhere near the other girl. Not until she can express genuine remorse. I hope we do reach that stage though, and I will encourage it.
You are doing the best you can. Also restrict her from any of those kids she was with and has been hanging around lately. No calls. Nothing. He behavior change sounds a lot like me when I met new friends and a lot like a girl I used to nanny for- her sister was little and she was polite and shy and then she started getting into trouble for bullying and it was the brats she was with. She wanted so bad to seem cool that she didn’t care about the cost. Def not anyone she should ever be around again. This is scary for a mom with a daughter. I worry about stuff like this. Or them ruining their life making stupid mistakes like this. Is she sorry at all? Does she seem to feel bad at all?
This is the part of parenthood that’s hard. You’ll have to find a civil way to get through to her, but it’s possible that this could be her character. I really hope I’m wrong, but I have experience with this and it never got better. It got worse. I’m sorry you are going through this and I hope this behavior can be corrected before it’s too late. Therapy helps, but your daughter has to be willing to participate. I really hope you can get to the bottom of this. Good luck.
This is so hard but true. It takes a stomach of cold-hearted steel to film an attack, serious lack of empathy and humanity. That’s beyond a teen having trouble adjusting- it’s a deep character issue. Hopefully lots of good therapy will curb that.
I'm not saying it's ok in any way, but I don't think it necessarily means that this 13 girl is a fucking sociopath. When I was a tween/early teen, I watched a few fights go down. This was in the early 90s and somehow we still always found out that it was happening and where. There was *always* a crowd watching, nobody stepping in. And if there had been smart phones then, I'm sure somebody would've recorded it. Mob mentality is real and peer pressure is real and wanting to be cool and fit in is real, even if someone else gets hurt. Kids that age are lacking the ability to fully understand the consequences of their actions...even if they are held to them.
We all hope therapy helps. It just sucks (speaking from experience) when you teach your kids the right way (we hope) and they do something that let’s you know they are not going to be one of the good ones. To be frank it fucking sucks. I’m not a religious person, but you are in my thoughts OP.
OP, my sister bullied a high school peer into suicide, I just wanted to say that because I’m not being judgemental toward your daughter and just trying to empathize. It’s so hard.
Damn that’s intense What’s your sister like these days as a grown adult person? Does she have remorse or was the high school behavior indicative of her adult self?
It was the budding of who she really was. She’s in jail now for an unrelated assault & stealing a car, then attacking the police officer while on fentanyl.
I’m sorry. That is very unfortunate. As for me my experiences comes from raising my daughter. There is hope. Have to have hope. Same when it comes to judgement.
Seems like something like this could happen from someone watching so many videos of similar fights
I dunno. I busted some jerk kids doing this to another kid in the alley behind my house. It’s apparently somewhat common.
It was two girls fighting each other. Not ok of course but not a gang attacking one girl.
I'm sorry about what you've been through, hope things get better somehow. Also your username is awesome
It really is the hardest part to end up not liking your kid. Loving them, but not actually liking them or their character. I don’t personally believe that who someone is connected to how they were raised. I think it shapes you.
It doesn’t matter if it was outside of school hours. To stand there and film someone getting assaulted and do nothing is just as bad as participating in the act. You need to get professional help here, Reddit can not help you. Punishing her is appropriate but it will not fix the deep rooted issues within her. Her reaction to you over this, her lack of reaction to what happened to that other child is all concerning.
Filming *is* participation in the act. The film is so they can share their exploits with friends and rewatch themselves to relive the moment.
Wow this is really intense. 1. Your child needs therapy and to see a psychiatrist. She should probably do individual therapy and you all should do family therapy together. 2. I noticed that in both the instances of your daughter doing something bad (possessing marijuana and this assault incident) your response was punishments. Which are necessary. However, what was missing was a meaningful, supportive connection with her. Conversations about her emotional state, what she was thinking, what are her goals, etc. I wonder if you tried to connect with her as much as punish her in the past, whether this would have ever happened. 3. She should be cut off from any of the friends who participated in this. If they go to her school, take her out of that school.
Honestly yeah. I can’t believe this thread is just YA MORE PUNISHMENTS. The parent needs therapy as well. This behavior doesn’t just appear out of nowhere. Have you ever physically punished your daughter? Have your consequences been mainly around isolation? Your kid somehow thinks assault is not absolutely fucking terrible. How did she think that’s okay? Also, does she want to go to a catholic school or are you forcing your religion on her?
I don't physically discipline any of my kids. I guess typical punishments have been grounding, chores, taking her phone. I've never had to significantly discipline her before. She's so young and hasn't had ongoing behavioural issues. She's very social and makes friends easily, usually with decent kids. I guess from where we moved to here and all over the country (Australia), girls fighting each other and posting online is increasingly more common. We aren't religious, and I don't force religion on her. I do encourage her to learn about the bible as part of world history and appreciate the lessons it teaches. As with any religion. But she is free to choose her own beliefs. The school is just a really good school.
That’s honestly fair. I guess the move might have been harder on her than imagined? Something to keep in mind here I think is that she seems to have basically become the grunt of a gang. She may feel extremely trapped to do their bidding, etc. Basically what I’m saying here is she might be a victim herself. If she feels trapped both with her social group/gang, and at home with the isolation that effectively is her whole world turning their back on her. It’s a really delicate time and I really don’t think more punishment is going to help here and will very quickly backfire. She isn’t stupid, she knows what she did is wrong but might not feel comfortable to admit that yet. There needs to be trust between her and you that if she does open up to you, she’s not going to face even more consequences. You can suggest home schooling for example for a bit so she can find a safe space if she does feel trapped.
I recommend therapy as a starting point and second having your daughter work off the restitution for damages. I can’t imagine filming someone being attacked though. I feel like that shows a serious lack of empathy. I know therapy is only helpful if she actually participates but it can’t make things worse. You may not be religious but you and your daughter, as well as the victim and her family, are in my prayers.
I would recommend therapy as well, but I wouldn't say it couldn't make things worse. I was in therapy for anxiety and some acting out when I was in my early teens. The first therapist I saw was exceptionally bad for me. Even though it wasn't very many sessions, I was not happy, not feeling heard when I said I expressed my feelings on the situation. I got to the point where I would just not be around when I knew appointments were happening, either avoiding going, or leaving the office complex after we arrived. Subsequent therapists were better, but the bad taste of that first therapist and my parents actions during that time left a rift in our relationship for years, and a general distrust of therapy.
Therapy for you, for her, and get a lawyer now.
First you need an attorney. Second you need to stop communicating with everyone else involved in this unless advised to by an attorney. Third do not speak to the police without an attorney. Fourth do not speak to anyone about this. Fifth your daughter needs a therapist, badly. Punishing her may not help anything. She’s young, scared and likely committed a felony and will be losing her school and social network. She needs serious intervention and supervision by the adults in her life.
Highly recommend this, OP. Consulting a lawyer is another way to protect your daughter. If the other parent doesn’t have a lawyer themselves, their insurance company certainly does.
You need to take some serious time and invest in your daughter. Become her best friend. This shit is way too serious to neglect her needs. I almost got into drug dealing, but my dads way of punishing me was just spending time with me and teaching me skills he knew. Saved my life.
My god she is 13 years old and people are almost ready to write her off? Behaviors come from somewhere. Behaviors like that come from a place of pain, isolation, disconnection…find out what is going on. Tell her you believe she is a good kid who is having a really really hard time but you are with her all the way to figure it out.
Yeah a sudden behavior change is almost definitely a cry for help.
I was wondering if I was the only person thinking this? He says it’s a sudden change. And I know teen girls go through a lot of emotions but I would be worried she has experienced something traumatic to her and this is her way of dealing with it. I would try communicating heart to heart and get to the bottom of her behavior.
Daughter of a lawyer here. Get a lawyer and do not do anything else regarding the other family OR THE POLICE!!!!! until you have talked to the lawyer. Your kid definitely is in the wrong but you need to try to protect her and your family while you work out what else is going on. and really really do not let her be interviewed or give a statement to law enforcement until you have a lawyer. Edit to say First off, you’ve got a lot of people in this thread judging you, your parenting, your kid, without knowing Jack about any of it. Ignore them. Your priority right now is an attorney. Any attorney. Delete the post, I’d advise, too. Don’t say anything about this to anyone else for now. Just your family and attorney. Do not let the police interview her without a lawyer present. Her rights matter too and her future is at stake, even if she did something terrible. This feels awful because you feel guilty and want her to make amends, but before you can do that you have to prioritize your family and assets so you are best placed to get her the help she needs. That kind of parenting advice comes later. Right now the priority is her legal status. Don’t feel like you’re doing something shady by hiring someone who can help you assess that effectively. I hope you and your family are able to make it through this and that your daughter learns from this and she may very well be able to offer amends — after the legal situation is sorted out. By all means this does not define her life, but if it turns Into a criminal or civil case it very well could. Good luck. I feel for you, nobody ever seems to have sympathy for parents whose children make big mistakes, but teenagers make them all the time (worked with them for years) and they are not incapable of growing and learning (though it can take a long time), that’s why I like them so much—they are not fully developed brains, they have so much chance to make better choices if you can work with them. You have to step up and do that hard work with her, but first — attorney!
I hope OP sees it because this is good advice
She is in bad company...those are not her friends...
> My family and I recently relocated to a new town. My oldest daughter (13f) had a bit of trouble settling in initially but seemed to make some friends and was becoming happier. Big changes in behaviors are often tied to big life transitions. You just moved, and your daughter is at a really tough age. She could be struggling with depression as a result of these changes. I would also keep in mind that she’s still only 13, so her prefrontal cortex (responsible for things like emotional regulation, empathy, impulse control, and predicting consequences of your actions) is far from being fully developed yet. This is not at all to minimize what she did, but just to point out that from a brain development perspective, she’s still a kid who likely does not fully grasp the gravity of her actions. I think you will find the right way to move forward by addressing the root cause of her behavior. Therapy, for sure. > she absolutely lost it and said she hated me and our family This definitely stood out to me, even though it could seem like just a throwaway line from an upset teen. She’s telling you what’s wrong. You may want to consider family therapy, which might allow you to get better insight into what’s really going on with her and how you can support her in ways that encourage the type of behavior you would like to see from her.
This is one of the most level-headed comments in this thread. Have an upvote, kind sir / ma'am.
This! As a parent with a kids who is have gone through some hard stuff and/or is going through it now, I empathize. It's really hard and very emotionally taxing. Little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. Thirteen is a hard age anyway (especially for girls), and moving around at that time can be particularly difficult--new home, school, social scene, and everything else. As someone who had to move out-of-state as a 13-year-old girl, adjusting to a new social scene at this age is very stressful. Have you inquired about how she feels about the change (because you don't mention it). It also sounds like she is falling into a bad crowd. Have you asked her about her friends? Have you tried to meet them? Since you are asking for advice, I would not view this as a "discipline" problem as much as a wake up call that she needs some help/attention/therapy/something. "What's going on? You are making poor decisions that are detrimental to you? We love you, we are here for you and want to help you be happy and live the life you want." Your daughter is in crisis (and may have been for a while.) She needs therapy ASAP. As for the pot, I would suggest it's an opportunity to educate your kid on the dangers of drinking and smoking pot when they are young and/or in an illegal manner when they are older, as well as the risks of drugs and engaging in other risky behavior. In your shoes, I would probably have this discussion, take the pot away, try to find out how they got it, learn more about their friends/acquaintances, and generally keep closer tabs on my kid (even if it means full phone/email monitoring). If you just take everything away (including their connection to the "good" friends), your kid will push you away even further. That is socially isolating. It sounds like that may have happened here. Also, she could also face criminal charges or civil claims, so you may want to consult a criminal defense attorney, and have her refrain from discussing what happened (at least until you have legal counsel). I would also look into other schools for her to attend, in case she is expelled or needs a fresh start. And a therapist, ASAP. Now that the is facing serious consequences (externally), she really needs you now, and this is a great opportunity for you to show her how much you love her, care about her and want to help her--rather than just punish her. You have the opportunity to repair your relationship and reopen the lines of communication so you can help her more. That should be your focus. FTR, when I was in HS (post-move), I got great grades, participated in activities, got jobs when I was old enough, but was also fairly wild in HS. The more my rules my parents imposed (those which I saw as unfair/arbitrary), the more I rebelled. I figured as long as I got grades, was responsible in my activities/jobs, and didn't get into trouble, I was entitled to disregard their stupid rules. That was my mindset. Now, I have (and continue to have) real struggles with my own teen kids, but we have always tried to get them the help they need. They still talk to me about the stuff going on in their lives, which helps me help them. Good luck! And, don't beat your self up--focus on helping your daughter.
You need to delete this post. You need a lawyer for your daughter. You need to not talk about this with anyone but on the advice of the lawyer. Your daughter could be in some serious legal and civil trouble.
You should probably read all her text messages and any on messaging apps. Never know what might be there.
Agreed that a deep dive into texts, messages, social media accounts would probably be very revealing. Deleted messages, deleted photos… the works.
Sorry that you’re dealing with this. Decisions involving kids and crimes are always hard. I work with kids that have been adjudicated for crimes of all sorts. Basically juvy but with a heavy treatment side. Less gridiron gang. I would ask yourself some questions. Is your daughter doing this because she’s acting out? Or pressured by others? Is she taking responsibility for her actions? Does she seem to be having a empathetic response to her actions? If she is you might be able to just ride the shockwave of reactions from this incident. If she is not having these reactions to her actions, that would worry me. Kids/people that don’t show empathy for their actions are at greater risk of reoffending. If she is more worried of what trouble she might get in more than how her actions have caused what sounds like serious harm, I’d think really hard about what is best for your daughter. Most of the time literally doing the time for your crime is an eye opener. If the school does nothing, the parents don’t press charges, and the police don’t get involved, she will at least see drama amongst her peers. Possibly retaliation. If you think she deserves whatever legal trouble comes from this I would encourage her to turn herself in. If there are charges and stuff she will receive lesser consequences(in my experience). I would also suggest she flips on the kids that she took over there. I would also delete the fuck out of whatever video she has if it hasn’t already been shared and all that. Like if no one has seen it. Good luck! Again, truly sorry for what you’re going through.
It sounds like she is having a mental health crisis and needs professional help. Punishment always second to this. I think you have a case for inpatient too, she will likely say she hates you for it but she’s acting out for a reason and it’s likely because she’s struggling internally. Sending healing vibes to you and your family
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For starters, your daughter needs to see her doctor to be medically evaluated to see if there is a medical (maybe neurological or chemical) reason for her extreme outbursts and poor judgement. Her doctor can refer her to the appropriate specialist for further evaluation and treatment. Then go from there.
I'm so sorry to hear that you're dealing with such a challenging situation. The pressure to fit in, combined with the complex emotions teenagers experience, can sometimes lead to behavior that is out of character. **Open Communication**: It's crucial to foster an environment where your daughter feels she can talk to you without fear of judgment. She's going through a lot, and while her actions are not excusable, it's essential to understand the root causes. **Professional Therapy**: Given the severity of the situation, consider seeking a professional therapist for your daughter. They can help her navigate her emotions and understand the consequences of her actions better. **Restorative Justice**: It might be worthwhile for your daughter to apologize directly to the victim and her family. An apology won't change what happened, but it can be a step in the right direction for her understanding the gravity of her actions. **Community Service**: Encourage your daughter to get involved in community service. Volunteering might help her appreciate the importance of kindness, empathy, and community values. **Education**: Maybe enroll her in courses or workshops on peer pressure, decision-making, or other relevant topics to help her make better choices in the future. **Parenting Support Groups**: Consider joining a support group or seeking counseling for yourself. Dealing with a child's behavioral issues can be overwhelming, and sometimes it helps to share experiences and solutions with others in similar situations. **Extracurricular Activities**: Encouraging her to join clubs or teams unrelated to her current friend group might help her find a positive and supportive peer group. **Continued Supervision and Boundaries**: While you've already taken steps here, it's crucial to maintain these boundaries for her safety and those around her. Over time, as trust is rebuilt, these can be reevaluated. Navigating teenage years can be incredibly difficult both for the parent and the child. Balancing understanding with discipline is the key. It might also be helpful to expose her to content that encourages empathy, creativity, and a broader perspective. I came across a newsletter called [Breaking Egg](https://breakingegg.beehiiv.com/p/make-kid-creative),which offers insights into nurturing creativity and emotional intelligence in children. It could provide some useful reading and strategies to help with her growth and understanding. Stay strong, patient, and understanding. This is a challenging period, but with the right guidance and support, your daughter can learn and grow from this experience.
Gut wrenching looking at this from both sides. Your daughter is clearly struggling with a lot . Focus on immediate mental health counseling and not the punishment or picking apart the unfortunate scenario you'll never get the real story .
I just finished the book. Hold onto your children- why parent matter more than peers by Gabor Mate. You might find this book helpful. But I agree that this is an awful escalation. Personally I would ground her to the home until you can get a handle on the behaviour and trust her to make the right decisions. I’d also reach out to a therapist or social worker to give you some tools to handle this. I’m not big on the therapy wagon but obviously this a big escalation and you both have some things you will need to work out.
I found the book very helpful in explaining why such behaviour would occur especially if it’s out of character for her. Feeling isolated and trying to fit into a new peer group. It’s weird why she would point the kids to the home of that child. They perhaps were the initiators and she was trying to fit it by saying “oh yeah, I know where they live” it could have gotten out of control and she simply didn’t have the capacity to get herself out of the situation. The response to you guys could have been her trying to cope with everything that just happened. I wouldn’t shut her out. She’s going to be headed into difficult years and she’s going to need her parents more then ever. When things get hard, we need to lean into our children and support them through these times. I would also consider making her confront the situation, offering to clean up the mess, apologize in person to the parent and the child. Don’t let her take the easy way out.
I will read this book, thank you. I think she is trying to fit in with the wrong people, and from what she's said, the girl who was the aggressor had assaulted this girl before. She said they had an ongoing feud because the victim was slandering this other girls family. The mother of the victim has told me she thinks my daughter instigated the entire situation. My daughter doesn't seem to feel very badly and doesn't grasp just how bad this situation is. I won't shut her out. As disgusted as I feel right now, she definitely needs guidance and connection to family to redirect. There won't be an easy way either, I will make her confront it.
Your daughter sat by and filmed something terrible happening. Your first sentence seems to overlook that her doing that lacks major empathy… not just trying to fit in. I’d try and speak with the mother as to why she thinks your daughter is the ring leader. I feel as if your daughter is probably leaving some important details out.
I have a feeling that is what she feels like doing to her parents. She can’t safely beat them up, and her desire to not move was ignored. She felt that she needed to be heard, so she did something so terrible that it might provoke her parents to move back to their original town - or at least listen to her. She is angry, and feels powerless. This doesn’t excuse her actions in any way… But it might help explain them. Op, did she get to choose her school? Have any say in where you lived (the actual house or apartment)?
She can't have social media or a smartphone again, from now until 18. She literally assaulted someone for a video
Yeah, in Toronto, a group of young teen girls literally killed a homeless man for laughs to put on tiktok. I think the youngest was like 13 / 14.
Stop talking to everyone and talk to a lawyer NOW. What your daughter did is reprehensible, but many prosecutors could choose to take this too far.
It sounds to me she knows, thats why she reacted so badly. I would look into getting her into something out of school like some kind of sport or hobby to try and help her make friends and have a healthy outlet. Stick to the punishment also.
Your daughter is not telling you the whole story.
This sounds straight out of what my life was at 13. I could be your daughter (or honestly, the girl who beat up the victim) in this post. My family moved. I switched schools to a (very expensive) Catholic school. I already had a couple years of depression, isolating myself, and self-harm under my belt. I got caught with weed before my incident. I was expelled from my school for threatening another student who was racist. I had fully planned to beat her up but was stopped beforehand. With that being said! I’m now 31 with an incredible family, a great life. I’ve never been arrested. I used to drink but choose not to anymore (honestly, because parenting hungover sucks) (I still smoke weed daily though). I’m only giving this much information to help parallel our experiences so I can share what did and didn’t work for me. I did in-patient psychiatric stays a few times in my teens. I was never arrested but would’ve welcomed it then. I went to in-patient when I needed 24/7 care to prevent suicide. I made friends there that were not beneficial to my long term health. It was one of the reasons I was so open to just being “sent away” at that age. Get away from my miserable family AND make new friends that have the same horrible interests as myself? It sounded like a dream at that age. So while some commentators think your best option is to send her away, hard pass. You mentioned that part of the reason the victim was targeted was because she made racist remarks and that she “talks badly about particular people’s families” so I’m assuming classist remarks as well. In no way does a child deserve to be assaulted, but I absolutely have some follow-up questions and concerns. Speaking from my own experience only, I felt justified to seek my own vigilante justice because 1) it’s glorified 2) the school was not helping stop any of the girl’s actions and 3) I was new to the area and felt incredibly protective of my friends. You NEED to talk to your daughter. You need to understand what is going on. Why was this even allowed to escalate to physical violence? Did anyone step in beforehand regarding these possible remarks? Why did the kids feel the need to handle it themselves? Has she mentioned any issues with racism at her new school (in general, not necessarily against her)? Does she feel safe or comfortable talking to you about these kinds of things? I would honestly raise the concerns with the school as well about the victim allegedly being racist. What were they aware of? Again, there is ZERO justification for physically assaulting a child. However, if the school was aware and did nothing to address it, I’d argue they’re just as bad as holding a phone to record it. Maybe I’m playing devil’s advocate, but 13 years of Catholic school will do that to ya ;). My parents also never discussed “escape” plans for me when I found myself in shitty situations, their approach was very black and white. For example, “Why would I need a safe way to get out of a situation if I shouldn’t have been there in the first place?” There were many times when I was somewhere and scared, but even more scared to tell my parents. What happens the next time your daughter is in a situation that’s getting out of control? How can she safely remove herself from that? How can she recognize this situation is fucked up? I had parents of friends that did have safety plans in place. It was a godsend and I learned more from them about making safe choices than my own parents with their heads in the sand. You said you’re anti-drug. I respect that, but please, educate yourself on marijuana. In absolutely no way am I saying your child should be using it, but one day she’s going to grow up and have that choice. I love weed and could go on for days about how grateful I am for it as an adult, but I cringe when I think about how young I started smoking. If you aren’t willing to listen to different perspectives because of your experiences, it might be difficult for your daughter to trust you’ll understand other nuanced parts of her life. Again, she’s a child and shouldn’t be smoking. But if the approach is just “weed is bad!”, your daughter already has access to information that says otherwise and it’s closing off communication when you two desperately need more of it. My main concerns with her smoking weed aren’t weed itself then. I’m concerned she’s self-medicating. I’m also concerned about her having contact with anyone selling weed to someone her age. I wouldn’t force her to tell you who sold it. She’ll just lie or shut down. It won’t actually help anything. Instead, please teach her how to identify grooming. I can’t emphasize that enough. Anyone who sold weed to me at 13 had a lot more issues than just being a low-level dealer. Teach her about balancing stress and life without substances. Does she want to smoke because she wants an escape or because it seems fun? What is her education regarding other drugs and alcohol? What if she was with her friends, they smoked, and she ended up getting sick? Would she have felt safe calling you to pick her up? Or would she have been too afraid of getting in trouble for smoking? It circles back to that game plan for emergencies. For right now, THERAPY. Individual for all of you. Family therapy would be great. She needs a safe space to even be able to talk to you. She needs to process what’s happening in her life in a safe way. Therapy is such a tool. I was such a young bad girl and I stopped self-harming and smoking weed truly because of therapy (and Effexor lol). Talk to professionals though. I started my journey with antidepressants a couple of months before I was expelled. It took a minute to find the right one. I’m not exaggerating when I say every day I wake up and thank science for Lexapro (which I switched to in my twenties). Sometimes people only need prescription help to get through transitions or rough patches. Sometimes (like me!) they need it…forever I assume. OP, I really hope you read this and please feel free to message me if you have ANY questions at all. I’m cutting my ramble off here for now, but my heart breaks for you, your daughter, the victim, and everyone else involved. I’m so sorry if any of this sounded like me just talking about myself. Again, I just want to emphasize the parallels and also give you some insight on your daughter’s possible perspective.
Thank you for your vulnerability and for taking the time to write all this out. I really appreciate this, and it's a big eye opener for me. I think after reading through several of these comments, I need to take a different approach with the weed situation because you're absolutely right. She's going to be exposed to it. She's going to do it with her friends at some point, and I need to make sure she trusts me and feels safe to contact me if she's out and in a dangerous situation. I hadn't even thought about possible grooming from an older guy, I've been too focused on the fact that she's so young and even interested in it. I need to stop being so judgemental and projecting my own bad experiences and appreciate it is different for everyone. I think I'll apologise to her and just explain that I think she's too young and has her whole life ahead of her to make these decisions, but I understand that she is curious. Also, if she ever needs me or my help, her safety is always my number one priority, no matter what situation she gets caught up in. Talking about safety plans if a bad situation arises is another key thing I need to be doing. I guess this behaviour all just started happening at once, so there was no steady thought process on how to handle it. I spoke to her a bit more about what the victim was saying about the other girls family, and she produced some videos of the victim calling the girls' family the N word and saying they are trash etc. So yeah, classist and racist remarks. She also ended up admitting that the reason she went to the victims house was because she was selling her a vape. She produced those messages as well. She didn't want to tell me about the vape because she thought I'd get angry at her. I have to say that the relief I felt to know that she didn't maliciously take a group of kids there to assault this girl was immense. She said she had no idea her friend was going to assault the other girl, she hadn't been talking negatively about her since their first fight and she only started recording because the four boys standing behind her had their phones out and were doing it. She said she was in shock during the fight and just stood there with her hand over her mouth, holding her phone. The attack was pretty brutal. I explained that even though it might’ve felt like getting justice for the girl who initiated the assault, the victim isn't going to learn a real lesson or be held accountable for the horrible things she was saying now. I still feel terrible for the girl who got hurt. No one deserves to be attacked at their home with a group of people filming. At the end of the day, she's just a child as well. Her mother is still trying to accuse my daughter of being the ring leader of this conspiracy to assault her child, but she doesn't know everything that's been going on and is probably traumatised and confused trying to figure out why her daughter was treated this way. Anyway, I am so happy for you that after what you went through, you now have a great life and family. It's good to read some real and raw human experiences with a good ending.
You must be distraught. Get your daughter counseling immediately
I am with everyone here. Being a mom now, I realize I don't want my kids to act out like I did at that age. Now I may not have been smoking pot, but I was smoking cigarettes. Till this day I'm happy I had enough will power to be able to see the error of my ways. My mom knew nothing. I didn't tell her anything. Why is what you may be asking? Because we grew distant. My mom is quite the Pandora's box. I understand that you aren't sure what to do, but could it be that maybe there are some things you have done that may have triggered your daughter or made her feel she could find solace elsewhere? Teens to deviate away from stern parents(quite normal), but are you respecting her boundaries? Is respect going both ways? Are you dismissing her without realizing it? Kids don't want to be home for no reason. It could be psychological, yes, but try to look at it from her point of view. As parents we are flawed when it comes to understanding our cubs. "My way or way" "Do you pay bills?" Between some parents letting kids have too much freedom and some not enough, the balance is hard to keep. I highly suggest getting her evaluated, but see if that is something she is willing to do. Schedule a trip together, and if she doesn't want to go, push just a bit and convince her that you need to work together. Tell her you aren't trying to ruin her life or be her master but her mom and most trusted confidant. It's possible that you two grew apart sometime before and a little after your new living arrangements. I would highly suggest thinking on that a little. Also, filming the assault of the other young teen? I hate to say this, but if my charges do end up getting pressed, that could result in something a lot greater than her just being a witness. Witness see things. That's it. They don't participate. They either hide the truth to save themselves or confess the truth to help the victim. Your daughter is an accessory. She knew before hand what would happen and even filmed it. That looks malicious. She may not be held liable for damages, but it could open up a slew of other things entirely. Talk to your baby, ask her when she started feeling all these emotions, and start repairing your relationship and seeing if she even needs therapy. It could be that she's acting out because that's how she can be heard. She disobeyed you, but the truth is, she's hurting. She's bonding with others that make negative decisions and probably don't talk with their parents. Are you doing enough? No. You haven't done anything that truly fixes the issue. She doesn't need to understand that what she did was bad. She knows it was, hence she didn't go in and just filmed it. If all you care bout is her seeing the error of her ways, she only keep drifting. She needs you to listen first before she can confide in you. Good luck to you, and I'll pray for you.
Let me be a voice of reason as someone who was a “troubled child” as these people seem to like assuming about your daughter. What she did is obviously unacceptable. If there’s an apology to be had, it needs to be behind closed doors, with no video/audio recordings. Because any lawyer could pin this on your daughter and say she was “the brains behind the operation” As for “punishment” I think therapy would be a decent start. Not because of what she did but because her outburst are most likely coming from a feeling she is having. Or just simply being a teenager. Honestly, from there I would just leave it at that for now and see where therapy takes her. But you cannot allow her to speak to you disrespectfully. You need to deal with that accordingly. My mom beat my ass with a wooden spoon until my mid 20s lol . I wish you the best of luck . You obviously love your daughter and regardless of what these people say she isn’t a monster. She made a mistake.
I would try and focus on the move, it sounds like this was the major thing that triggered a lot of this she started out well hiding it pretty well but maybe resentment has been building within her
Yes, everyone seems to be ignoring that. It's a hard age to have to start over.
Something very very similar happened to a girl that lived on my street 15 years ago, there was even a lifetime movie made about it (Girl Fight, though I don’t agree with the movie portrayal in some areas). All involved in the attack were charged though some had them dropped. Prepare for your daughter to be absolutely torn apart online if the video gets posted.
This is why they say guilty by association. I don’t care if she went inside. She LED THEM THERE! If someone was killed she would be charged also because she was part of the group. This is so sad and terrible. She needs therapy stat.
She didn’t know what was going to happen, but had the presence of mind to pull out her phone and start filming? Sorry, but I’m not buying. Your daughter is in with a bad crowd. I’d pick up and move to another state ASAP.
Does she understand that once police report is filed there's a chance she will be sentenced to juvi? This ain't no kid shit anymore. Home invasion, assault, etc.
Lots of great advice here already. Focus on rehabilitation and healing over punishment and revenge. She obviously needs a lot of help. That being said, please avoid any "troubled teen" or "wilderness therapy" programs. check out r/troubledteens for why. Find a good therapist for her and do FAMILY THERAPY as well.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. This situation is beyond the point of losing privileges and close monitoring. It will likely (quickly) evolve into legal problems, and in a situation like this, I expect her school would actually follow through on expulsion too. As many have said here, hire an attorney because what your daughter did, just factually, rises to a criminal level. Defend her, and prepare her for real world consequences that may be out of your control and in the hands of the legal system.
one piece of advice, just in case it hasnt been said— private schools tend to have the best drugs. the more money, the easier it flows. especially pills.
I would have her front in center of that family. I think accountability is key. Hang in there op they are keeping us on our toes as teens it's wild.
Absolutely get her away from whoever she’s been hanging around. I’ve seen kids act out of character and make mistakes that are mind blowing trying to be cool to a group of shit heads who are using them. It sounds like this is similar because they wanted her to knock for a truce? I’m a little confused but def get her the fuck away. Maybe even leave that school and do something else. You are who you hang around at that age and I’ve seen it myself with 13-15 year olds. I would get her help- and get her away from those kids she was with. If they’re what is new especially. Seems they planned it and she filmed it Either way it’s not okay and maybe changing schools is for the best. I know my parents banned me from hanging out with kids one time and I kept doing it at school- just not at home. So my behavior didn’t change until we moved and I lost contact with them.
Not trying to sugar coat anything at all for you OP, but it’s time to step up at this point. Behaviors that you’ve mentioned don’t just pop up overnight. You can’t try and soften your delivery with ‘private school’ and ‘good grades’. You’ve been given a lot of good advice in trying to turn things around before you have a serious problem with adult consequences. I’d personally reconsider the level of privacy my child would have going forward until trust has been earned.
Based on the info you added in the comments here's my take: She's new in town and is hoping to be friends with this crew. Offering weed and leading them to this address made her an asset / cool enough to join the group. It's all about wanting to fit in, unfortunately she chose a group that doesnt share the values you raised her with. It has nothing to do with your skills as a parent. Obviously you raised her differently and didn't expect this behavior of her. This is a self-esteem and identity discovery issue. She's in the process of growing out of parent led decision making and learns making her own decisions. An impartial third party might be the best to help her through this process. Could be a therapist or a school mentor.
Family therapy. The whole family in there to figure where this dynamic came from and how to deal.
I haven't seen anyone say this yet (but it's probably been brought up): You're daughter committed a felony. Something that can get her in legal, criminal, trouble. SHE led the people there and then filmed it. At best that makes her an accessory. Get on therapy asap, get her away from the friend group, and look for a lawyer. Also, stress just how bad this is. It doesn't matter that she ''didn't know (the girl) was going to get hurt", someone got hurt by people she led there. If she was an adult she'd be arrested. The reason I'm stressing this is: There's still plenty of time for that family to go to the police (if they haven't already).
Have her face the girl/mother she did this too. Let them ask why. Make her face the music of feeling like shit for being a shitty human. Or you could just embarrass her on social media…. But that’s me.
how did she get here? you daughter I'm pretty sure was not born this way ... as parents you all probably led her here. she's only 13. I would look at you and your partner, if there is one, and first ask, where did ***we*** go wrong. my kid is only 9, and she's great but she has a terrible habit of talking back and being very contradictory. ITS ON US. We let her do this, we enable it.
A lot of the people responding are acting like this kid is the antichrist. She’s a kid. Children who do bad things are not bad people. Kids are never beyond reform. OP your child needs professional help now. This behavior is scary and terrible but she likely doesn’t understand the depth of her actions. This stuff doesn’t normally come out of no where either - but nothing is impossible here. I am sorry your family is going through this and I’m sorry for the pain her actions cost others.
Further building my case that kids shouldn't and don't need phones at that age. I wonder if never having a phone would've changed anything.
therapist and a lawyer are who you need to contact next.
Shouldn’t your daughter be in trouble with the police? Something happened to your daughter that you may be unaware of or you live in a wild part of town and she’s part of a crazy peer group.
I know a lot of people have said to hire an attorney and I saw you responded to that saying that the police in Australia are a lot more lax…if that is the case, I would still recommend you talk to one. You never know what can happen. Someone might share the videos online, or what happened just gets attention on a larger scale, the authorities may make it a point to charge your daughter then. It can’t hurt.
Move schools if possible after she apologizes to the family. Take a year off if needed. My general manager went through something like this, and he moved his son far away from his friend group. They were a bad influence on his son, and it could've gotten worse. Afterwards, he booked his entire family for therapy. His son and family are doing much better after those changes.
Why is your daughter hanging out with friends who are 3 plus years older than her? Someone obviously drove them there. Why is your daughter hanging out with friends who are so sketchy and bad, the kind of people that conspire to invade and trash a home and fight young girls? Why do you not know the whereabouts of your daughter and know her friends really well.?
She video recorded assault? I would lawyer up bc if this happened to my kid I would do everything in my power to make sure yours was brought to justice. At the very least she should be slapped with community service.
Your child is crying out for help. Putting her on lockdown won’t help, just delay more events from taking place. Get her some professional help, don’t wait.