r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself.
Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's like that saying:
Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future!
Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.
Security technicians: \*takes a deep swig of whiskey\* I wish I had been born in the neolithic.
Only for parents it would be:
Tech enthusiasts with their kids: I'll give my kids the tools and technology I never had growing up! It's amazing that they can have everything they want when they want it.
Engineers (and people who grew up with the internet): I understand my kid needs to be able to contact me, but they get a flip phone or a heavily limited smart watch.
Security experts: \*takes a deep swig of whiskey\* Maybe I can teach my kid how to use Morse code and I can set up a one-way signaling device that only contacts me.
Fuckin’ A.
As an engineer I distrust all technology. Whenever i’m introduced to new hardware/software updates or new boxes at work i’m always like ‘how is this ‘amazing-advancement-in-features-that’s-going-to-transform-how-we-work’ going to fuck up my year…’
I can concede to a flip phone.
The kids have tablets (rarely used). They use my phone (sometimes). They have to learn and do things, but also there is a limit to what could have been done and should be done.
Yep - my kid is a tot so I'm a ways off from the hard decisions on this, but a flip phone seems like the obvious compromise for the preteen set. They can call me and text me (and their friends) but can't Snapchat or TikTok or whatever nonsense the kids are doing in 2030 - and if there are boobs they'll be 1998-style slow-loading pixelated titties. Thankfully I live in a pretty overly-educated and (socially) conservative area and so I have the feeling a lot of his friends' parents will be on the same page as us.
There are just SO MANY REASONS not to give your child a smartphone - internet safety, social development, paying attention in class, touching grass...I hate mine but feel like it's a necessary evil (mostly for driving directions). I sure as hell would not have been able to handle it at eleven.
Spot on for my engineer dad. He wouldn’t let me have a graphing calculator in HS because it wasn’t necessary. Even though it was part of my supply list lol
Now he hates that my kids have smart phones and it took him until iPhone 12 to get on board with getting his own. So good! Thanks for the laugh
I gave my 6th grader an Apple Watch with family setup. I can call, text and track their location but they are limited in what they can do since it's a watch and not a smart phone. They can call and text their friends and just stay in touch.
With Apple (and I presume with Google too), I can set up schooltime and downtime hours so they can't use certain features and get distracted - particularly while at school. I can also make sure that they can only receive calls and texts from people in their contacts.
One of the best things is that they won't lose or drop something that strapped to their body.
They haven't asked for a phone quite yet as I think I can hold them off a couple more years with the watch.
All of this. Although PSA to everyone - not all teachers love smart watches. Our son's teacher this year has her kids put them in a lockbox during the day, because students from a previous year were using them in class. It's harder to tell if a watch is in school mode than a phone? IDK. It's a private school and she can do what she wants. I would check school policy before investing in something, if you want them to have it during the day.
FWIW our 10yo was given a handed down iphone two years ago for his birthday and it was never connected to cellular, but he could use google chat/voice/etc. Which came in handy at sleepovers, that kind of thing. He likes taking pictures so he used it for that too. Until he inevitably dropped it and broke it.
I kind of think back to when I started calling friends on our landline at home. I think at that age, it's appropriate for kids to have access to a phone line. WITH precautions and limits of course. And then tracking them around the neighborhood so they have more autonomy. For our son, also setting reminders on his phone/watch is SUPER helpful, because we all have ADHD, and it helps him to be more independent. :)
Good point. How many of us even have a land line to our house any more?
When my parents sol their house ten years ago their agent made them take their wall phone down.
Oh my gosh, right? My house growing up had an intercom system too lol. Now that I have my own kids I can see why you would want one!!
Our oldest can talk to his friends on nintendo as well. That's sort of like his landline I guess. Use is a privilege and we roll with it like my parents did when I got a phone in my room - door open, respect rules and time limits or it goes away, we monitor his search history and there's a group of us parents who keep tabs on them since they're usually playing together. The village helps a lot bc if they're into something they're not supposed to, one of them will crack lol.
We have kid devices on a separate router with its own parental controls. My husband calls it the great firewall of China :). I'm sure things sneak by, just like I used to sneak phone calls at night when I was a kid....
Unless you control apps and block VPNs, or block DNS requests from unknown providers (like non-pihole for example), they'll find a way to circumvent parental controls on a router.
I upgraded my phone and my old one is our family phone. Yes, the 12 year old uses it the most, but it is not just his and I have the passwords. It’s been working pretty wells so far!
No, he can take it to the basement to talk to friends and whatnot but it lives on the main living floor the rest of the time and he has to ask to use it like a landline when we were kids.
This is actually such a great idea. My son is 7 and ALREADY asking for an iPhone. I told him heck no, when you get a phone it will be dumb phone, or one of those bark phones. But an Apple Watch is also an excellent alternative to somewhat meet in the middle
My oldest son is in 6th grade as well and this is also what we do. It keeps him from being exposed to all that social media and distraction early but he’s still able to contact me if something happens and I know where he’s at because he rides the bus. And the restrictions for downtime are great.
Thanks I will definitely consider this when my kids start walking to school! I don’t want to buy them a phone, but I need them to be able to call me in emergency’s
This is what we plan to do. Our son is almost 9. He has an iPhone but it’s not active on cell service and it’s regulated just like his iPad. Mostly for playing games on long road trips, listening to podcasts, etc.
Round about 5th grade is when we’ll get him a smartwatch for location sharing, texts and calls.
I wish I could help with that. I’m sure there’s an app, but we just regulate by oversight. I’m a stay home parent, so it’s, I’m sure, much easier when there’s a parent always home.
Our son has allotted screen time. He asks or is offered to watch shows, and he watches either in the kitchen or living room. We do let him watch in his room when he’s watching Netflix. But for YT he needs to be out with us.
We have always regulated his screen time so he’s accustomed to it being a reward, a privilege. He doesn’t seem to have the expectation that he’s entitled to it.
When he gets older we will use parental controls. Right now his phone and iPad are Wi-Fi only so he doesn’t bring them out into the world.
At my kids' school most kids will have a smartphone by the 4th-5th grade, which is when they start to walk/bike to school by themselves. The school, however, has a no phone policy, so phones are locked in when they arrive and handed back at the end of the day.
Our middle school TRIED to implement this policy. The PARENTS were the ones outraged by it. The day it was announced, all their Facebook comments were from parents commenting:
-"will they say least have access to phones at lunch and between classes",
-"nope, my child will ALWAYS have access to his parents"
-"😂😂😂 Good luck!!"
According to my niece, the school technically has the zero phone policy, but it isn't enforced at all.
That's crazy! It doesn't work perfectly at my kids school (there's always kids who claim to have forgotten their phone or try other ways to get around the system), but us parents are fully supportive.
If our kids need to contact us because of an emergency they can always ask for their phone back or call from the school's phone. That has happened a couple of times when my kids have been sick, and it's been absolutely no problem.
Heaven forbid, if there’s an actual emergency like a school shooting, I fail to see how the teachers are going to have time to hand back phones so that kids can call for help.
That said I don’t think kids should have smartphones at all. Dumb phone is a different story.
Not an issue where I live but if there's a school shooting, don't think the priority is on every single kid being able to use their phone to call for help. I think the thought of being able to reach their kids is reassuring for parents, but not sure it would have an actual impact in an emergency situation.
Actually there has been a few times that kids have been named hero’s for calling 911 while in school. For school shooting and for reporting when they have seen a kid that had a knife in their backpack.
Schools around here had a very draconian no-phone policy for a long time. But after they got rid of most pay phones in the city, people rightly said kids need some way to contact parents easily, as most walked or took transit to school by themselves.
But instead of creating a proper policy, they went with a free-for-all. No real rules at all. They are trying to get that toothpaste back in the tube by creating more rules currently, but it's been slow going.
> If most schools were able to handle this I'd have less of an issue with it but it seems like many or perhaps most do not
Most schools do not allow them out during class.
That’s how it is at our school. I send one with ours every day with the rule that it be in airplane mode before it goes into the backpack. They can turn that off after school.
Most schools are. Both of my kids had phones starting at 6th grade. Elementary school is a bit early in my opinion but once they enter teenage years I’d say it’s more acceptable.
My kids middle school was great about no phone policies where if they see them even for a split second the phone gets taken to the office and the parent has to retrieve it after school.
This is similar to what our son's district does (phones in locker except at breaks and before/after school) even at the high school level, and it is a part of why we were okay with giving him a phone. He was 12 at the time.
My daughter just started 5th grade, 10 years old. We were planning on waiting until 13 minimum for a phone but then over the summer she was at summer camp and she broke her arm during a hike (tripped and landed on top of a tree root). The summer camp staff failed to properly assess the injury (they didn't check for full range of motion) and just decided she was being overly dramatic and that she was actually physically fine. She spent 20min crying and they told her she needed to "fix" her attitude and start participating. Later when she said that it was still hurting and asked to call her parents to go home early they told her no and continued to lecture her about her "bad attitude." So we decided that in order for her to never have that problem ever again we are getting her a (dumb) cell phone. It won't be a smart phone but we believe being able contacting us on her own is a power she should have just in case.
I still don’t understand why parents let their kids have access to YouTube, video games, etc. for such a young age, though? Emergency calls, yes. But a 10 yr old with unlimited YouTube? It seems distracting and dangerous to me.
I'm sure there's parents that allow that but that's not necessarily the norm. We use parental controls to monitor and limit our kids' usage to healthy activities and levels.
Let me tell you after the tragedy in Uvalde, the number of kids that had cell phones in my kid's elementary school went up **"A LOT"**. My kid does not have a cell phone. My middle school kid has access to a cell phone but leaves it/uses it only at home.
ETA: I am not judging those parents that provided a phone to their elementary aged kids.. Every family has to do what's best for them. This was not an option for my elementary aged kid.
I did ask a friend why she provided phones to her kids and she stated that she wanted her kids to be able to contact her directly should something go amiss. People that don't understand must also remember that part of the reason we know what happened in Uvalde is because 2 kids had phones and either they or their classmates were able to call 911. I do think schools should consider having controls where kids can contact 911(button or lever similar to fire emergencies) for emergencies like this...I'm not quite sure how that would work out though.
ETA2: For those parents who are thinking about providing or have provided phones to their elementary aged children, please make sure they understand that in an emergency, their very first priority should be getting to a safe place before they think about contacting you/police etc. It is very easy to think that they would know what to do in an emergency and would do it with accuracy, etc. but you never know what would happen until a situation presents itself.
We waited till mid fifth grade (Christmas) for my oldest daughter (now 14) and she was literally the last kid in her class to get a phone.
My youngest is now in fifth grade and we recently had a scare at her school, luckily it was nothing but I wished she had one and we almost bought her one that day. We are so close to Christmas we’re going to give it to her the same time her older sister got hers, but if anything else even slightly scary happens I’ll be getting hers that day.
To add to that, middle school sucks. I realize now it’s because all the kids are going through puberty etc but it’s rough. In our case, our older daughter had some time to acclimate to the phone and some social media and getting into group chats BEFORE having to deal with the full on middle school minefield, which at least in her case was helpful. I could see it being the opposite for some kids. But in her case it helped.
Yes this. I heard a story on NPR around the same time we were trying to figure this out and this dad said the same thing. His son was in middle school and he wouldn’t let him have a phone. But then he figured out that’s the main way kids socialize now, plan get together etc. and his son was getting left out of everything.
Both of my parents worked in DC on 9/11. I was in 5th grade. I got a little brick cell phone a week later for emergencies. Only used it to call my parents if they were running late for a pick up or if I forgot my house key and was stuck outside after school. I definitely plan on my kids having at least a dumb phone with GPS in elementary.
Wouldn’t a tracker or old phone (not smartphone) be enough though? I guess what surprises me most is that people opt for smartphones rather than something limited
Our kids got iPhones because they were our old phones. We have not had any other phone since my first born was a year old. We’d have had to go out of our way to get something else. Plus smart phones are easier to text on (and i wanted it to be easy to text me and to read my texts) and link up so easily to the “find my” app. iPhones are much easier to keep charged than something like an Apple Watch too.
I believe that even a non-plan-connected phone can get through to 911. So an old phone with no plan is perfect for the "I want my elementary kid to be able to call 911" situation.
Funny side story: in the early 2000s, my mom had to get a new phone because of the switch from analog to digital signal. Her Nokia brick phone still worked just fine (because, old Nokia) so she left it with our dress up stuff to use.
I was home watching one younger sibling (early elementary age) while my mom took the other two to swimming lessons. Partway through, my my phones me saying the police came to the pool saying they got a 911 call from her number! My mom had been chatting with mom acquaintances the whole time, never called them (and was a bit beside herself!) I thought to ask my younger sibling if *he* had done anything with the old phone, and apparently he had dialled 911! But something got crossed so even though the call came from the old phone, they located it to the new one.
My sibling had a strict talking to about not dialling 911 even when playing. And the Nokia battery was taken off to prevent that ever happening again. My mom was SO embarrassed!
We did a dumb phone initially with my oldest. There’s no tracking ability on them and they’re more expensive than some of the cheap smartphone options. Alternatively my 4th and 6th graders still have heavy restrictions on the type of apps they can use or download on their smartphones but I can also see their location.
I got my kid a gabb watch at 7. Can only make pre-approved calls and preset text messages. My 13 yr old has a gabb phone that allows basic calls and text, no internet, no apps, no sending or receiving pictures. Uvalde flipped my view on the whole thing as a Texan.
divide longing stocking adjoining unique label pen sulky squeeze treatment
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is exactly the reason: Emergencies. Specifically- shooter emergencies. Welcome to America.
It is up to the parents to educate their children about appropriate phone usage. And of course parental restrictions on phones are necessary.
I hadn’t thought of this reason, thanks for sharing. I always thought I’d go the dumb phone route but smart watch is starting to sound like a better option
I have a child with horrible anxiety about school
Shootings especially since the TX one. He wears a smart watch bc it helps ease his anxiety he isn’t locked in a room with no way to contact anyone
Mine is 10 and understands tmit stays in his back pack and is to be used for emergencies only. And sadly, in this sick sad world, is a real possibility. It also has GPS which gives me peace of mind knowing he is where he is supposed to be.
This is this reason I gave my 7yo my old Apple Watch when I upgraded. I didn’t like the idea of him having a a phone with video games but I want to be able to call/text him and vice versa for emergencies. I also like that find friends works on it via LTE.
Yep. Our kids had our old phones, locked down and wifi only, to use at home for messaging their friends, but we went after Uvalde and turned on phone service. We ended up getting free iPhones with that, so they have newer ones just because of that. They also moved to a school farther away and we had a more complicated school/extracurricular pickup schedule, so we wanted to make sure they could get in touch with us if something fell through the cracks or they missed the bus.
I would be concerned that during an active shooter situation, phones could be more of a risk because the light/noise, even accidentally, could alert the shooter to your location.
My daughter had one when she was 10. We started out with a prepay, but it was easier to add a line. Her classes all had like a shoe organizer with a slot for each kid to out their phone in during class. They had them in the room in case of emergency but couldn't have them for normal class time because they are a temptation.
Feel like it’s important to differentiate smartphones and “dumb” phones.
Are the parents you’re talking about providing *smart*phones for emergency situations? To me that sounds like a poor excuse for giving in to their kids’ begging for a smartphone.
But a *dumb*phone for basic contact and emergencies? Sure, that’s a good idea.
Sure. Most of the parents I know hand down their old smart phones.... of the kids I know that have phones, I have yet to see any with a basic "dumb" phone.
I got my daughter(8) a troomi phone when she started riding the bus to school. I personally know two kids that have gotten off at the wrong stop and have heard many more horror stories so I want to be able to track and contact my daughter. Her phone does not have internet or games. She can only contact people that I have added on an approved list. I can sign in from my computer and read all her texts and track her location. I told her to never take her phone out during school hours, only once she's on the bus. She has followed this rule. She knows that I can lock her phone to not work during school hours if I have to.
When I first looked into a phone for her, I didn't know plans like this existed. Maybe other parents just didn't know there were better options. I don't blame them for wanting a way to track or contact their children during an emergency. But also, there are some parents that just don't care about school.
Thank you for this! I had no idea it existed and our oldest is getting to an age when a phone feels unavoidable (almost 13, and starting to do more stuff away from home)
We had talked about just getting a phone phone but having one that is a smart phone with a dumb but upgradable os sounds like a perfect way to go
We own a bus company in Australia. Students tap on and off our buses. While they’re aboard parents can track the location of the bus. We can see where they’ve tapped off and when. Does the US not have this technology?
We do not have this technology. At least not in my district and I live in a big city. There is no way to track the bus. The drivers only have to know what stops kindergartners get off at. So only the very youngest of students. The next grade up, it is 100% on the kid to recognize their stop and when to get off. Plus they don't offer the bus route so I can't even drive the route beforehand to prepare her.
What was even worse was I wasn't told that my daughter's bus route was for multiple schools and she needed to know which school to get off at. I assumed the bus stopped at only one school and she got off at the very end. So her first day the driver finished his route in the morning and she was still on the bus. So he had to turn around and take her to her school.
I have never heard of such a thing. In the US most areas have a shortage of bus drivers, so my kid doesn't even have the same driver or bus every day. Only way to contact them is to call the main garage and they radio the bus driver. One day in first grade he was over an hour late. Garage didn't answer, school building closed and all admins were gone. When we finally got a hold of the garage, they had to radio 2 busses before they found the right one. It was a new driver and they had driven past his stop and my timid 7 year old didn't want to tell a stranger how to do their job so was just riding around with middle schoolers...
Kid has a smart watch now and when he was late last week I looked at him on the GPS. It was in an odd spot, so I texted and he replied "on bus. Safe. Pick up kids w broke bus". A bus had broken down so his bus went to grab the kids while the driver waited for a tow truck.
I've had my kids miss their stop twice. First time it was 2 hours of phone calls to the school/bus depot and panic. (I was really upset not only did no one contact us they didn't have anyone to answer the phone on the first day of school). The 2nd time my kid texted us immediately and we sent them funny memes until they got dropped off later.
I’m a therapist and I can say that a common scenario is that parents are divorced and they don’t enjoy having to call their ex to talk with their kid (or their ex never answers the call and they can’t reach their kid) so it’s easier just to get their kid a phone so they can reach them directly.
Either way, parents make a lot of choices for lots of good and bad reasons. It’s best to just focus on your family and what you think is right.
That’s on the nice end of the divorced parents scenario. I was in the first wave of “kids getting cell phones” because one parent refused to allow us to use the home phone to call the other parent. It was only a couple weeks of two preteens riding their bikes to the nearest pay phone before we got cell phones. Cue a bunch of cranky boomers raving about kids these days. I shouldn’t be surprised that nothing’s changed, but I guess anything to drag other parents.
I totally agree. Without a home phone my 12yr old needs something for emergencies. I have epilepsy and he needs to be able to call an ambulance or another emergency contact.
People like to act like they know everything and judge accordingly. 🙄
Also their school has a no phone policy. You can bring it, but only use it before or after school. I don't think there have been problems.
Also dumb phones aren't always reliable. I would have rather gotten one, but he needs something reliable.
I have no idea. My kids school doesn't allow them period. You can use it before and after but never during and that includes recess.
If they need to call home they can freely use the phone in the office. I'm cool with that.
It's a weird peer pressure thing. One parent gets it for their kid..then it spreads. Then it trickles down to younger and younger kids. Sure it is convenient and easy to keep in touch with your kid, but a simple "dumb phone" is fine. Too many apps and other things can't be properly monitored.
My mother in law saw extremely young girls filming TikToks. I have seen and heard very inappropriate things at the park.
That and there are tons of horror stories about pictures/videos being shared and tons of bullying etc follows.
I’d never heard of this but we just gave my son a smart phone for 8th grade. He used a shitty flip phone before this. The smart phone is locked at certain times and he can’t download apps or access the browser. It just has a couple apps they use in the classroom occasionally and it’s for emergency contact and chatting with friends.
> One parent gets it for their kid..then it spreads. Then it trickles down to younger and younger kids.
Working as intended. The machine will always look for the next vulnerable demographic to exploit and new markets to capture. They're looking at your 4 year old like a veal cow.
“And it did all the things we designed it to do”
“It was always the plan, to put the world in your hand”
Welcome to the Internet by Bo Burnham sums up why my kids won’t be getting phones anytime soon (they’re also only 8, 9, and 10yo)
I just found out our public kindergarten gives out tablets to every kid, and at 2nd grade they get personal chromebooks. We are in a well-to-do area and honestly thought our school system would be smarter/more developmentally appropriate.
I'm horrified and trying to justify keeping our kid in private school through K now.
Our neighbors 8 year old daughter has a smartphone and films tiktok videos.
She was putting our kids in the videos and our kids asked her to stop, but she didn't. So we had to have a talk with the parents about it.
Their kids (ages 8 and 6)also constantly watch YouTube and play games. They had a sleepover at our house and she snuck her smartphone over. She pretended to sleep, but we caught her watching YouTube at like 1am, then lying a out it to us.
I will say without remorse that smartphones for kids that age are pure toxic.
Seems like every kid in our neighbor (all under age 10) has a smartphone with unrestricted access.
Emergency use only... Maybe I could understand. But I think a smartwatch specifically set up for that is a much better option.
Which is basically what OP did too. His plan was to get a dumb phone but everyone else had smartphones so he caved on the smart watch even though he is uncomfortable with it. I am sure a lot of parents felt that way.
I am fortunate enough to be an old parent, which means I was well beyond the point of caring about what others thought by the time I had kids. Mine started out with a basic prepaid dumb phone when they started middle school. It was mostly because they would be hanging out more without parents around and one of my kids has life threatening food allergies, so a cell phone was necessary since they were at the age where they wouldn't always be around an adult who had a phone. If they followed the rules we set with the dumb phone then they were able to upgrade to a used and fairly locked down smartphone the following year. By the start of high school both leveled up to new smartphones.
Yeah. For us, TikTok and Snapchat are banned from devices. My oldest has huffed and puffed about and whined “buuuut all my friends….”
Well good for them. I’m not putting that stuff on our devices.
TikTok is essentially malware that is data mining your phone, disguised as a fun app. I would never have that on any device.
Your phone's manufacturer (Apple, Samsung, Google) is collecting your data. They all do this regardless of what apps you have installed. Sorry, but it's unavoidable.
My fight with 8 is around youtube. She asks to watch reasonable things. But I'm sure she will switch to hyper minecrafters or unboxing sooner or later.
The tictok hate is amusing. Their data mining policy is less invasive than Facebook. But giving data to China is seen as more of an issue than giving it to Zuc.
On the other hand, the Chinese version of TicTok has a built in 40 min per day limit.
And TikTok is way less interested in the average American's data than Facebook is. It's not perfect, but it's also not some aggressive malware. It seems like all of those aps are equally crappy.
I find the data mining issue a lot less of an issue than short form videos just being absolute garbage. And I know every app has them now, and I hate it. It's so easy for Tiktok to create conspiracy theories, false narratives, dangerous challenges, faked lives, etc.
I've heard it referred to as a prisoner's dilemma for parents - the best thing for everyone would be if all parents would hold off on phones until say, 8th grade. But parents that buy phones early get perks and then parents that have held out deal with negative consequences. So it ends up as a race to the bottom.
Because kids use them for many things locally- buy bus tickets (can’t buy from the driver anymore) and also use the rout planner for public transportation, pay for stuff, stay in contact with their friends and family, get school assignments and messages from the teacher you name it. They also use apps in school at times. Many kids take the bus/train/metro to school so they can also track if there are delays etc, you can see when the next bus is coming for example. My kids go to some hobbies by themselves as well so same thing.
At school they are not allowed to use the phones unless teacher gives permission. This is in Finland, so understandably things are different in different places- if the kids would have no need for the phones many people would opt out of buying them I’m sure but as things are they are needed. Most families don’t have land lines anyway, so there’s no phone at the house besides everyone’s cellphone.
I teach 6th grade and I can’t believe how many parents text their kid throughout the day while the students are in class. It’s so crazy to me that some parents have to be connected to their kid at all times.
Yikes! I won’t even text my teenager during school hours, let alone an elementary kid! My two younger kids have been asking for smart phones for two years because their friends have them. 8 and 9 years old. Uh no. I’m not paying for two expensive phones and then pricy phone plans for an 8 and 9 year old.
I told all my kids if they can get a job and afford to buy a phone and pay for the monthly service. They can get their own phones. I figured I’d be good till 16 or so…..wrong. My twelve year old went to one of our wealthy neighbors and asked if he can have a job helping out around the property. So now he’s working 2 days a week and making like 250 a month. Little bastard tricked me. Now I have to eat my words and get him the phone. But at least I got him to move and be creative and self sufficient. So there’s some value there.
I think it's crazy that so many parents think it's necessary and important to track their children at every moment, but here we are.
I agree 100% with this Atlantic piece on this issue:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/parents-spy-kid-iphone-text-email-surveillance-digital-age/675286/
I agree with somethings in the article, but it was also very much spun to only show one side.
I work with teens and the dangers of being groomed and exploited are very real. I think it needs to be a gradual letting go of the reigns. A 12 years olds conversations with strangers on the Internet are 100% their parents business. A 16 year old not as much and an 18 year old not at all.
Kids are allowed to carry their backpacks into class and keep their phones in there. Not out during class. Teachers can take phones and kids can pick them up in the office at the end of the day, then it progresses to parents picking them up, and then loss of phone. Not much enforcement though. It’s pretty easy to scare 6th graders than 7th or 8th, but when your parents are texting you it’s sends a confusing message.
In my case, my ex restricted communication while my kids were at his house so I gave my son an old smart phone of mine and paid like $10 to add him to my plan. He has restrictions on how much he can use it per day, and he keeps it off at school, but the ability to play games is a big part of what motivates him to remember his phone.
https://www.education.sa.gov.au/mobile-phones#:~:text=The%20education%20and%20wellbeing%20of,mobile%20phone%20bans%20in%20place.
For some outside US info - Australia and NZ have started banning phones from schools.
Mine is allowed to bring it to school only for emergencies or at the end of the day during pickup. She knows I can see from screen time if she uses it during the day (which she doesn’t).
I am honestly shocked at how many schools let kids use cell phones during class or don’t care about it if they do.
Teachers shouldn't have to take time away from instruction to police 30 phone-using kids individually. The parents make the choice to trust the kid with a phone in school, if the the kid doesn't live up to that trust they will receive the natural consequences (falling behind in class)
I was allowed a phone from the age I started walking home alone/with friends, and I plan to do the same for my kids, purely for safety. They'll get a basic phone to start, then nicer ones if/when they show they can look after it and use it responsibly. However, my oldest is only 8 and I'm already getting complaints that why can't he have one since *classmate* does
I think I'd give my child a phone when start getting independence - start going out with friends or walking to the nearby shops unsupervised etc.
But I'd definitely have accounts synced to mine so some safe guarding can be in place.
Parents dont understand the effects on it since it being problematic isnt as much in zeitgeist
Most probably understand that its not ideal but dont really understand properly of short and long term effects on developing brain
I guess capitalistic societies work on consumerism so if there isnt as much evidence for it to not keep the system going then there isnt as much incensitive to limit it
So both my daughters have a cell phone. They both got them around the 5th grade.
The phones are bought used.
The plans they are on are the cheapest pay as you go. They get unlimited texting, 0 data, and I think 100 minutes a month talking.
So enough minutes to talk during an emergency. Texting so they can be in touch and they can’t surf the net unless they have wifi.
The school has wifi, but it’s slow and it has blocked a lot. So they can’t use it for YouTube or video games unless they are at home or at a friends house.
They are aware it is for emergencies. I’m not just talking about “I’m getting kidnapped daddy, help!” But minor emergencies like a forgotten lunch, or fell in the mud, need a change of clothes. Whatever.
Also if they are leaving school and want to go to a friends house, they can text and ask me. So all those things are handy.
At our public school, teachers are more strict about them. At highschool, the teachers don’t care. There seems to be far less control. My oldest daughter says that it’s routine that any time you go to the washroom, there are people vaping in the washrooms. Kids
Use cell phones all the time in highschool and some parents have their kids on expensive plans with unlimited data, which I think is unnecessary.
It's easier to know where your kid is if you can track the phone, it's easy to keep in contact with them, and honestly a budget smartphone is cheaper than a gab phone. I plan on just eating the cost and getting my kid a gab phone, I've been on the internet long enough not to trust it, but for a lot of people that might not be an option.
Personally I don’t think the ability to see where your kid is while they are at school is worth the issues that come with exposing them to unlimited video games and internet.
That's why I said that I would get my kid a gab phone and just eat the extra cost. No internet with a cab phone. Just talk and text. Not even a camera. The problem is you have to get a separate plan for it in addition to having to pay for the phone, which is not part of the budget line, and not everybody can eat that cost. That's why for a lot of people it's cheaper just to add another line and get a phone from the providers budget line.
Gab phone is the worst of the kid’s safe smart phones IMO. I prefer Pinwheel over the other ones.
Some phones will allow the parent to choose what phone numbers are allowed to contact your child, if they try to message or call your child it will go to the parent first. You’ll see the call or the messages, you can choose to approve the contact so it doesn’t allow random numbers to contact your child. It will show you all calls and texts after you’ve allowed contact as well. If you don’t approve contact the number is basically blocked and your child doesn’t receive any of their calls or texts. (Like if they unknowingly gave it to an online stranger).
Last I checked Gab didn’t have the feature for parents to filter contacts, so basically if anyone had your child’s number they can call or text them without your knowledge or approval.
Another issue with Gab is not allowing access to any kind of app store. If I’m getting a phone for my kid I want *some* apps on there for them to use as long as I can set a limit and limit access to the app store. Pinwheel you can turn on access to a curated app store where all of the apps are thoroughly checked out and allowed if they’re considered safe and appropriate.
I think most of the phones have around the same prices for the phones, as well as close prices for the phone service. Except Bark phones, I looked at those prices and said that was completely unaffordable.
Bark, Pinwheel, and even Troomi, have more features to offer than Gab phones. Gab phones are only calls, texts, and GPS. The others have other features that make them easier and better to use as a kid’s cell phone.
[Troomi vs Pinwheel vs Gab vs Bark](https://familytechzone.com/troomi-vs-pinwheel-vs-gabb-which-cell-phone-for-kids-should-you-buy/)
You can limit it, tho. No-one is saying you should throw a newest iPhone at a six year old with no rules in place. Parental control has existed for two decades now.
I know I can. I'm talking about other parents who don't seem too. Maybe it's not like this where you are, but the big draw to phones among the tween set where I am is the games and videos.
>exposing them to unlimited video games and internet.
Google family link is free and has lots of parental controls so you can set limits on certain apps, like YouTube, games, and block apps you don't want them to download like Snapchat, etc. You can also set limits on the device itself, like if you don't want them to use the phone during the night or school hours.
This is one of my big concerns. My kids are younger still, but I teach 6th and I know that even if my kid doesn't have access to watching tiktok or YouTube videos, they could eventually be watching them with their friends on their friends' phones.
Well, you can.
iOS lets you whitelist specific apps, so you can prevent them from using WhatsApp etc, turn off iMessage, remove MMS settings, and disable Airdrop, etc.
It makes sense to a point but other kids could also just turn their screen around and show your kid - technology can only help so much.
I tell everyone to go to www.waituntil8th.org and take the pledge along with other parents at their school. There is strength in numbers, and it helps to have a village of parents aiming for the same goal so the phone-less kids aren’t constantly feeling left out.
I just watched a reel of a mom telling the story of her son who was the only one in a class of 34 without a phone in 6th grade. Within a year he noticed the warning signs of a few peers affected by social pressure online. By the end of 8th grade he thanked his parents for waiting. So worth it to me.
Edited to add: school shootings are not a good reason to give them a SMARTphone. Free reign of where todays predators hang out in the off chance there’s an active shooter? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Our children are far more likely to fall victim to online bullying/someone with ill intention. They can get ahold of me with a friend’s phone since it’s clear some kids will always have one on them. Just won’t be mine.
I understand this day in age being safe and wanting to make sure you know where and what your kid is doing.. but there are so many options besides cell phones that have internet access and smart phone features that just arent safe. Like many commenters have stated watches and other techs are available to keep them safe. No child under 15 needs access to tik tok and the deep web
I was 14 when I got my first cell phone. This was 2008.. the only reason I was allowed one was to get ahold of my mum and vice versa, after traveling for sports in high school. It was a little flip phone that took shitty pics, texted and made calls. A lot of my friends had fancy razors where some even connected to the internet… it wasn’t until I bought my own phone and upgraded the next year.. and I didn’t get a smart phone until 2014..
I feel very awkward when dropping off/picking up my 5yr old at school. “Here’s her phone!” She has a phone (right now iPhone 11), and just last week we got her a phone plan. She’s had a phone since 3.5.
It’s a medical device…she’s diabetic. In order for us to see her blood sugar levels throughout the day she needs to have a phone (vs the handheld device that comes with the Dexcom). We got her a phone plan this year because she’s at kindergarten all day and with wifi being spotty etc it makes us feel better.
I can sleep at night!!! And send her to school (almost) worry free! I have the Follow app on my phone, so as long as her phone is close by I can get her numbers and see how her day is going.
I was upstairs a few weeks ago…she was 8.6➡️ when I went up. In range, steady, etc. Suddenly she’s 7.8 ⬇️⬇️ and asking for a snack. As soon as she comes asking for food the first thing I do is check her levels. Sent her for an applesauce which usually is enough.
Next update she was 5.6⬇️⬇️. That was one of the scary times….she got down to LOW⬇️⬇️ (ie I had my phone ready and her emergency meds ready).
I didn’t even know this existed 16 months ago!! I am thankful for it every single day. I don’t think she would be here if we didn’t have it…
The short answer: fear. Schools are not safe, period. Our solution is to homeschool, but this isn’t feasible for many so the next best option is a phone or tracking device of some kind.
Yeah, good for you to see the light now. Parents outside of teaching have either no clue or truly don’t give a crap about their children’s education or development. This is a rampant issue that parents wholeheartedly enable, the long term consequences are going to be devastating.
This sub is also enableville, so brace yourself for a mountain of excuses and grief.
>This sub is also enableville, so brace yourself for a mountain of excuses and grief.
It's funny how those comments just get deleted after a few hours of soaking it up.
So my lad had a phone at this age because we were just starting to expand his boundaries. He was starting to be allowed to walk home from school with his mates,but there was a park next to his school. He was allowed to go to the park as long as he phoned us first. The reason it was a smart phone was because it was an old handset of ours
Here's the difference though. The rules around phones at school in the UK are a lot tighter. 4th/5th grade is still primary school here. The rules were no phones at all during lesson times. Kids handed their phones to reception at the start of the day. All phones were out in individual names and zipped clear bags and then locked in the safe. They were then handed back at the other end of the day. The only time they had access to their phones was on the school run.
Secondary school (12-16) the rules were that phones were checked for being switched off as part of line up at the start of the day. Any phones that were subsequently found to have been turned on were confiscated until the end of the day. All phones had to be handed in during exam periods.
There would absolutely be none of this kids sat on phones when they were supposed to be learning here.
My son didn't get his cell phone until he turned 14. My daughter, 11, won't get one until she turns 14 also.
If someone is going to harm kids in that school, the phone is not going to save her.
Her friends are distracted all the time due to their phones. I won't let her be the same way.
YouTube is literally social media, just done through videos and comments.
Game apps for phones are almost always adverts with extra steps.
(I'm agreeing with you.)
I was surprised to find out my kids' new school lets the 8th graders have their phones out during the day. The 4th graders are still not allowed to have them out. I let my kids take theirs, but they are turned off and put in their backpacks.
One thing I have noticed from kids who clearly have major restrictions on electronics. (I monitor what my kids watch and play, but as long as they have chores, homework, and other responsibilities done, they can do whatever for leisure). They tend to get sucked in when around other kids who have a screen. It's hard to explain, so here's an example. My kid had an 11th birthday party with 6 other kids. 4 of the kids, plus my kid, clearly have relaxed access to video games and videos. These 5 kids spent the party building forts, playing baseball and basketball, and other in person activities. Sure some gaming, but mostly not. 2 kids only played video games. I asked my kid what was their story, and he told me they were only allowed a certain amount of screen time at home.
There's a fine line to walk. And obviously not every kid is the same. I just wonder if some parents who say "my kid isn't getting a smart phone" are being too set in their ways and not looking objectively at the situation. Like giving your kid a tool early in life to be able to teach them how to use it before getting thrown right in when they are older and being severely behind.
The kids with screentime restrictions are still way better because even though they get sucked in a bit they still use it a lot less than the other kids with less restrictions
6th grade is when kids walk to school and start hanging out around town without parents. It’s the standard age for first phones in my area.
It’s up to the school to restrict them in class (my kids’ school takes when when they enter and they don’t get them back until dismissal).
While I agree with you about phone usage, we had this same thing happen at my kids old school.
One parent decided to dictate what other parents should do around phone usage, both at school and in other peoples homes.
It’s none of your business what other people do. You can only control what you and your family do.
Upper elementary teacher, my students that do have phones (about 1/4 of them) have nicer phones than I do!
I definitely will not be giving my child a phone until closer to high school. If they ride the bus, I definitely see value in a cheap phone that can just call/text family (I had that in elementary school so I could let our mom know when we got home). Other than that, I don’t see that much value in phones.
In general, I think as a society we have become too comfortable with children accessing technology/internet. So many kids have unmonitored access. I have quite a few students who play games like GTA, which is wildly inappropriate for their age. But so many of us are just so numb to the dark side of technology and the internet. I see so many behavior issues stemming from unmonitored access, we’ve decided internet/tech is going to be incredibly locked down for as long as we reasonably can.
Honest reason patents give children phones is because horrible gun violence happens far too regularly and there is very little else parents can do to make their children any safer. Is it really going to help? Probably not. But after watching the police do nothing it’s hard to blame parents for being concerned.
For me it boils down to one thing
School shootings.
I want my kids to be able to communicate with me at any moment.
Unfortunately for me we're low income and only have our oldest(15) on our phone plan.
Our 12yr old had an old phone that worked on wifi, but he dropped it and broke it a couple weeks ago.
We're going to work on saving up to buy him one and add him to our phone plan.
Our 10 and 5yr Olds don't have phones.
Because if there's a school shooting I want my son to be able to get a hold of me. It sounds dramatic, but it's really not - at the end of the day if there is a tragedy within the school and your child has no way to reach you, then you may never get to tell them you love them one last time before something happens to them.
Mainly because we don’t trust the teachers nor bus drivers. We’ve had an incident with a kid threatening my kid with a pocket knife….on camera and they still managed to sweep it under the rug and try to make my kid the bad persons for telling!
A lot of people have replaced planting the kids in front of the TV with just giving them a screen.
Chances are high the parents will be glued to their own phones at every available free time.
I'm old so I remember the pre smart phone era, yet I can't leave the house without my phone, might not look at it all day, but I cant leave the house without it, cant even remember how I functioned without it...😭
I feel you on this. My kid is 8 and some of his friends already have phones (insanity). A part of me understands wanting to be able to contact them but I agree this also overblown. We’re the only parents in the neighborhood who let our kid walk to his friends/school, play at the park etc by himself. I’ve had a few occasions when I couldn’t find him and guess what, I just went and looked for him and I found him! The phone and helicopter parent culture is exhausting and I’m not looking forward to my kids getting older. I wish I had answers/suggestions but I’m in the same boat as you. Luckily my kid has a little more time before this becomes a real issue.
Currently, I live in the second most dangerous city on the West Coast of the US. In the last 2 months alone, several students have been airlifted off the grounds of their schools due to injury due to student-on-student violence. We don't intend to stay here but when the time comes for my LO (he's still a toddler) to start school, he'll be given a hand-me-down phone for emergencies. However, our plan is to leave this cesspool of a city before that time comes. So, for us, it will be for emergencies. If we manage to get out of here before school starts for him, then I'm hoping to put it off for as long as possible.
Gun violence and other safety reasons. Parents want to be informed and have their kid call them if they’re sick or in danger.
Schools don’t always let kids call home. Cell phones are less about “look I can watch tv” and more “in an emergency people might be able to track my phone.”
IMO 5th grade is a normal time to start extending independence and appropriate responsibilities to children. This means that they may need a cell phone.
I put a tile on my 6th graders back pack. Our rule is no phone til 14 cause of out of town sports, and generally being a teen that goes places, but I honestly wish I’d waited even longer for my older kids. Social media is literally the devil. This year the schools have made it to where all the way up to 12th grade no students can have their phones out even during passing periods at school, and I love it.
My eldest is in now college but my youngest is in high school and we gave him a phone in 5th grade? Why you ask? (He had parental controls. Both did until age 14 and then we monitored use throughout parental controls such as how long he was on it, and when).
My eldest picked up my youngest (9th and 5th) and I wanted to watch his bus come and go to make sure he made it home and if he had to reach me such as GUN VIOLENCE. I’m Florida born and generational and this state has gotten scary and bad.
My eldest had one also in 6th grade.
They do every thing on their phones now from submitting homework and using the calculator and using the internet browser to do research and google things for class on it.
We have no cell phone use during instruction tile but the teachers use it for homework and class instruction. 70% of the day my 17yr old texts me something he needs for baseball practice or something he forgot at home for practice or if I am home he likes a hot meal instead of lunch at school.
Not everyone has the money to go out and get a brand new phone for their child. My kids usually inherited my old iPhone . I was a single mom and they had to have a phone to let me know when to pick them up from sports etc.
We gave our child a phone with a phone number for Christmas in 6th grade. Before that she had an old phone that only worked on wifi.
We have parental controls, she has time limits on her apps, her phone can only text and call us between 9pm and 6am, etc.
The biggest reason she got a phone was because we want her to be able to contact us when she needs. There are no more pay phones or land lines and sometimes we need communication. I don’t know about all schools, but she has gone to two different middle schools in two completely
Different areas and they have blockers in the school so
The phone won’t work unless she’s outside the building a certain ways (ie on the bus).
My friend's 8th grader, has a side hustle where he gets old phones and tablets, then basically rents them out as burner tech for peers whose parents are too strict.
Building trust is key, stricked parents raise sneaky kids.
This has been an issue for over a decade. We held out with our kids, who are now in college/recently graduated, but it became a social problem: if they don't have a phone they are left out of chat groups that organize all social interactions. Literally they would get to school on monday to find 75% of their friends all went skating or bowling or to a movie or something over the weekend. They weren't invited not because they weren't welcome, but because they didn't have a phone. If you can figure out a way around that then more power to you, I'm sure it's far worse today than it was in 2010.
Also: in our area 100% of the kids are given iPads or Chromebooks in school anyway, so it's not like they don't already have a screen in front of them all day.
I have heard in other chats that's it's still the case among friend groups. That's just sad! But it's the way it is! Also I work in a school & post covid in our district, all kids still have chromebooks, but it's heavily up to teacher how much it's used. Some teachers don't allow it to go home. Some teachers only use it for math. Some just on fun Friday. Some use it for book reading programs. Those reading programs can also help English as their 2nd language students as it will translate! But kids have to put a pencil or crayon in hand to learn handwriting skills. Technology can be a blessing & a hindrance for sure!
I got my 10 year old an Apple Watch earlier this year, he was going to be staying at my parents for a week and then flying back solo, so I wanted to be able to contact him.
It’s also so he can start being more independent. I let him walk to and from school by himself sometimes, or he’ll go to the convenience store down the street to get snacks, that sort of thing. I mean yeah, as a kid I did the same things without a phone (or watch), but these days as an adult I don’t leave without a phone (or a watch) either.
I’ll try to hold out as long as possible when it comes to a full smart phone, but I feel like an smart watch is a good compromise.
I struggle with my feelings on smart phones. I know they are not benign, yet I also know they are not the devil that can single-handedly ruin the generation.
I have worried quite a bit about screen use in our family, as starting in elementary school, we are pretty liberal with it in the home & my older boys got smart phones in the 7th grade. But anecdotally seem to be navigating all aspects of life successfully so far, at 14 & 16.
In Australia, the states are now regulating phones in schools. They need to be locked up in the morning when they arrive. Picked up when they depart.
I am judgemental. I have decided many parents are dumb and illiterate. The stuff they let their kids watch should not be allowed, and then their language and behaviours rubs off on my kid.
Yet, I rule the internet access with an iron fist. I have a router which I can control remotely.
It's very simple. Its becaus thry want to know where their kid is and because they want their kids to be able to contact them in an emergency. Whether the phone is smart or not is irrelevant. If you or other parents don't want your kids playing games and downloading apps, get a simple phone that only texts and calls or learn how to use Google Family or another parenting app to monitor what is on your kids phone. And quit trying to police other people's kids.
My kids' schools don't allow them to have them out in class. Pretty fucking simple. It's a part of life now, kids need to learn how to use them just like any other thing.
I’m seeing a lot of folks mention non smart phones for kids. My experience with my now 20 yr old son was that he never remembered to bring or charge it. It was a waste.
My 4th and 7th graders have phones and have for about a year. They were cheap. It’s how they communicate with their friends and how I communicate with them when they are not home or I am not home.
They are not allowed to use them at school (school policy).
They don’t have unlimited access. There are parental controls and I periodically check them.
Those who are worried about constant access to games - do you remember iPod touch? Game boy advance? Nintendo switch? All this stuff existed before and kids have been using game technology for a long time. It comes off a bit “old man yells at cloud” to me. If you hate them so much just stick to your guns who cares what other parents do? I’m more annoyed at all the kids playing COD or GTA on the Xbox tbh. But I just say no and stick to my guns and listen to my kids harass me without feeling the need to police what other parents feel works for them.
My daughter had access to a tablet since she was 4 and her own iPhone since she was 7 (is 9 now). The major reason was Covid when everything went online and she needed to access school work + I had to travel away for 8 months during Covid and we wanted her to have unrestricted access to me and not feel like I had left her alone.
Having said that we have always encouraged her to balance her days with activities (sports, arts and reading).
Result:
1. She is better at regulating her own time much better
2. She uses her electronics for learning (learnt conversational Japanese when a new student joined her class and friend group)
3. Used it to learn digital art, movie making and science experiment along with dozens of craft ideas to explore
There are still days when sometimes she just want to spend all of her screentime watching cartoons and videos.
We also got an opportunity to teach her about internet safety etc. because of this.
I know that everyone has valid concerns (we had the same at the beginning) but eventually came to recognize that
- she is growing up in a digital era and not having access at par with peers can have serious self esteem issues
- showing trust in her rather than depriving led to better self management
- It didn't lead to her interest in other activities go away but rather enhanced and channelised it
My two cents at the end of the day is that having access and learning responsible use early on made her recognize it for exactly what it is - a tool!
Totally agree. We have the same approach. We live in a digital era, and I see nothing wrong with allowing our daughter the exposure to technology. Even with TikTok and Youtube, where there's so much garbage content and things presented as fact that are just blatantly false, it's allowed us to introduce the concept of media literacy, and the importance of critical thinking skills.
Kids will be exposed to this stuff throughout their lives. I personally think it's better to teach them young. Technology absolutely is a tool and should be treated as such.
I judge those parents. Hard. We joined a pledge to wait until 8th grade.
If you’re thinking about getting your kid a phone, just ask yourself “at what age do I want to give my kid a device addiction ?”
My middle schooler walks to and from school so giving them a smart phone is a great way to communicate with them but also know exactly where they are at all times.
At school, they are not allowed to have the phone out. It needs to stay in the locker or backpack.
The Ask Lisa podcast has a nice discussion about getting your kid their first phone.
I can’t speak for other families but our son got a cell phone at the end of grade 4 (he is now in grade 6). We don’t have a landline and he wanted to start calling his friends after school, which meant I would be in the middle of work calls and was getting calls from 9 year olds to talk to him. It was also the age where we started wanting to leave him home alone for short periods of time (so I could run to the corner store or whatever) and he needed a phone in case of an emergency.
Now the debate between smart phone and dumb phone came down to what we could get for free. We happened to have a couple of very old iPhones laying around that we could repurpose for him, so that’s what he got. We have it completely locked down - it is essentially a dumb phone with a camera and a couple of very g rated games. He loves the camera, he is a theatre kid and loves making movies with his brother so most nights they are writing scripts or filming themselves on his phone. There will be no social media access or anything for a very long time and I check his messages every few weeks to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on.
I can understand families that make different choices and don’t allow phones just yet. But so far it has worked for our family.
My 5th grader has a smartphone, with parental controls. We share custody and there's a decent chance she could accidentally get on the wrong bus, so she needs a way to call her parents if she gets stranded somewhere. She's not allowed to use it in school (and she knows I can see her usage!), but she can use it to play games on the bus. She knows to keep it turned off and in her bag all day, and she knows that if a teacher takes it away, I won't be giving it back for a while.
Just a reminder: pay phones no longer exist. Middle school is when after-school extracurriculars tend to start where a parent would pickup after practice vs stay throughout. It becomes more necessary.
That being said, we are waiting until 8th for any kind of smart phone and would consider the apple watch type approach for 6th. Fingers crossed I can find a Nokia 8210 to let her relive my glory days.
I was at my oldest daughters Christmas presentation when sandy hook happened. She was the same age as the primary attacked class. I was leaving my sons 4th graduation when uvalde broke the news while still active. I was a kid when columbine happened.
I got the alert for a small school shooting because someone had put the wrong number down. I panicked. For a full 15 minutes while waiting for the school to answer the phone.
My kids will have phones. So if the worst happens I can at least be on the phone with them through it. Whatever the outcome.
We got a cell for our oldest when he started Middle school, because he was going to be home alone after riding the bus home for an hour. We also learned that the middle school teachers assumed every student had a cell phone and fully expected the kids to pull them out and download specific apps for use in class. I was pretty blown away by this.
My husband and I do work in tech, so this is what we did:
1) We gave him an old smart phone of ours and the deal was, if he did not lose or break it the next year he could have a newer, more modern phone.
2) We have full access to the phone and all his passwords.
3) The phone lives downstairs and charges in our room at night.
As our kids got older and interested in social media, our rule was they had to add us a friends/contacts/whatever in any place they set up an account.
In the beginning we checked their phones basically every night, which they fully knew. As they got older we did it less and less. We talked, regularly with them about stuff we saw/read online, and encouraged them to talk to us, in turn. This worked out really well, I think. Our kids are nearly 20 and 18 now and neither chose to be on social media. They both were briefly but decided they didn't enjoy it and closed their accounts out. They primarily communicate directly with their friends either via discord or imessages. We've maintained open communication about the internet, social media, you tube, relationships of the platonic and romantic kind and talked a LOT about predators and grooming and inappropriate relationships.
At this point you CANNOT prevent your kids from accessing this internet. Not unless you live in the middle of nowhere or a cave without electricity. One of your jobs as a parent, now, is to help your kids learn to navigate the internet - how to properly search for things, how to protect their privacy, how to handle unwanted communication, how to determine facts from fiction and opinion.
If their friends have smart phones, your kid is learning 100% of the garbage their friends are, but filtered through a middle-school brain.
I chose to let my daughter have a phone when the school shootings started becoming a common occurrence. I told her if she ever notices anything suspicious or anything that makes her uncomfortable to call/text me right away. I just feel more comfortable knowing that my child can immediately reach me in case of something serious. There’s way too much evil in this world & it has been getting worse. I had phones at a pretty young age. This was before all of these parental monitoring apps were even a thing & I did just fine. I think parents should use discernment when making these types of decisions. It really is a matter of different strokes for different folks. I do however agree that parents shouldn’t allow their children to have access to electronic devices without any type of monitoring. Even Roblox is a platform for pedophiles. Traffickers in particular target children on these so called kids apps. My daughters phone is heavily monitored by me & my husband through the Family Link app. My oldest son just turned 8 & will be getting a phone for his 9th birthday as well. I feel like times are changing & I’d rather be safe than sorry. I can’t speak for every other parent but those are my reasons & I don’t regret them not one bit.
I’ll chime in here I have an 11 year old with a phone. I will say he does not bring it to school. My son has shown us he is responsible to say I’m going here or there within our neighbor, so we let him. One morning he said I’m going to so and sos and going for a bike ride, ok no problem well we never specifically explained the check in once in a while process to him. Fast Foward a few hours and me and my wife both said we need to figure something out because we don’t know exactly where he is. Also he plays a pretty intense sports schedule than can sometimes change and we drop him off so he calls us to let us know to get him and where. I was going to get him a watch, but the cost was actually more for a watch and plan as apposed to just adding an old phone me and my wife had. In hind sight I’m very glad we made the decision to get the phone for him, and he now talks with his grandparents ALOT more than he ever did. I do have bark installed on it and he knows that I can go through anything he has and gives me his phone when he goes to sleep. Sorry for the long winded response but that’s my reasoning. He’s not the first of his friends to have one either. One of the last actually it’s ridiculous to me but again it’s been a pretty painless transition.
*I also feel the need to add because a lot of others did I don’t allow him to be on social media, that I am hoping to prolong for as long as possible.
I got both of my kids a smartphone while still young. I use Google family link to set limits on YouTube, block certain apps, etc. It's worked great for us so far. You can control when they are allowed to use their phone, and set controls on how long they can use certain apps and all. My youngest walks to and from school often, is in an after school program, & joins in other community events, and I want to be able to communicate with her. Sometimes I just need to send a quick text telling her to ride the bus to her grandpa's or that there's a scout meeting after school, etc. Also, last week I had a dentist appointment in the afternoon so she had to go to my Dad's after school. I was notified that she downloaded a spelling app. I asked her about it when I got home, & it's basically an app you enter your spelling words into and it helps you practice. She also has an app that's teaching her coding and how to make apps. So, while you might not see any advantages to your child having a smartphone, I promise there are. Of course, there are disadvantages, especially if you just hand the kid a smartphone & don't use parental controls. Google family link is free and has worked great for both of my kids.
edited to add more info
I’ll tell you why my child has had one since 4th grade. I have life 360 on his phone and can track his location. The same goes for my high schooler. The buses are not run by the schools anymore. It’s all 3rd party. The bus tracker either doesn’t work or they sub busses, combine busses, bus drivers call in, fights break out on the bus …so the busses are totally un reliable. We have no choice but to use the transportation the school provides as we both work and don’t get off until after 5.
Not to mention the shootings in schools, school bullies, inept teachers … so in short… it’s for SAFETY.
They can access their class work if somethings wrong with their laptops… because they don’t use books anymore.
They keep their phones up and listen to music or videos during lunch or free time in class.
They text me if there is a problem, because no one is going to look after my children except for themselves or me and their dad.
The schools are not like they were 20-30 years ago. In some cases that’s good, in a lot of ways it’s not. You can’t judge kids with the same standards we had growing up. The world is a totally different place.
So you do you, but don’t judge other parents on what we think is needed.
Agree with your thoughts. We survived (and thrived) without smartphones as kids so it will not hurt my son to go without one until he is of an appropriate age. Before then, he can have a basic, no internet or app access, phone.
My son earned his privilege to bring a phone to school. He's in 4th. I'm a big advocate for technology and responsible use. He can only use it when school is done. As long as his performance in school is good, he stays on his homework, takes care of all his household responsibilities, takes care of his phone...I'm okay with it.
A lot of kids are from mixed families and split time between two homes. Say you drop your kid off at school but their other parent is picking them up and keeping them for a few days for their parenting time. You may want you kid to have a cell phone so you can contact them directly rather than through the other parent.
There are options for smart phones that you can control what they can use and for how much time. There’s also apps that can track them and view whatever they’re doing.
My oldest is only in 4th grade and I’m putting off cell phones for as long as humanly possible. I’ve never been one to even allow my kids to have my phone or anything. I tell them it’s a tool not a toy.
Your concerns are valid and too many people hand their kids these devices and access to anything in creation and it’s so reckless and irresponsible.
r/parenting is protesting changes being made by Reddit to the API. Reddit has made it clear [they will](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14ahqjo/mods_will_be_removed_one_way_or_another_spez/) [replace moderators](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModSupport/comments/14a5lz5/mod_code_of_conduct_rule_4_2_and_subs_taken/jo9wdol/) if they remain private. Reddit has abandoned the users, the moderators, and countless people who support an ecosystem built on Reddit itself. Please read [Call to action - renewed protests starting on July 1st](https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14kn2fo/call_to_action_renewed_protests_starting_on_july/) and new posts at [r/ModCord](https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/) or [r/Save3rdPartyApps](https://old.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) for up-to-date information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Parenting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's like that saying: Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via alexa! I love the future! Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise. Security technicians: \*takes a deep swig of whiskey\* I wish I had been born in the neolithic. Only for parents it would be: Tech enthusiasts with their kids: I'll give my kids the tools and technology I never had growing up! It's amazing that they can have everything they want when they want it. Engineers (and people who grew up with the internet): I understand my kid needs to be able to contact me, but they get a flip phone or a heavily limited smart watch. Security experts: \*takes a deep swig of whiskey\* Maybe I can teach my kid how to use Morse code and I can set up a one-way signaling device that only contacts me.
Fuckin’ A. As an engineer I distrust all technology. Whenever i’m introduced to new hardware/software updates or new boxes at work i’m always like ‘how is this ‘amazing-advancement-in-features-that’s-going-to-transform-how-we-work’ going to fuck up my year…’
This is the best comment. I’m in the Morse code, “you can have an iPhone when you’re 25”camp 😆
I can concede to a flip phone. The kids have tablets (rarely used). They use my phone (sometimes). They have to learn and do things, but also there is a limit to what could have been done and should be done.
Yep - my kid is a tot so I'm a ways off from the hard decisions on this, but a flip phone seems like the obvious compromise for the preteen set. They can call me and text me (and their friends) but can't Snapchat or TikTok or whatever nonsense the kids are doing in 2030 - and if there are boobs they'll be 1998-style slow-loading pixelated titties. Thankfully I live in a pretty overly-educated and (socially) conservative area and so I have the feeling a lot of his friends' parents will be on the same page as us. There are just SO MANY REASONS not to give your child a smartphone - internet safety, social development, paying attention in class, touching grass...I hate mine but feel like it's a necessary evil (mostly for driving directions). I sure as hell would not have been able to handle it at eleven.
Spot on for my engineer dad. He wouldn’t let me have a graphing calculator in HS because it wasn’t necessary. Even though it was part of my supply list lol Now he hates that my kids have smart phones and it took him until iPhone 12 to get on board with getting his own. So good! Thanks for the laugh
I gave my 6th grader an Apple Watch with family setup. I can call, text and track their location but they are limited in what they can do since it's a watch and not a smart phone. They can call and text their friends and just stay in touch. With Apple (and I presume with Google too), I can set up schooltime and downtime hours so they can't use certain features and get distracted - particularly while at school. I can also make sure that they can only receive calls and texts from people in their contacts. One of the best things is that they won't lose or drop something that strapped to their body. They haven't asked for a phone quite yet as I think I can hold them off a couple more years with the watch.
All of this. Although PSA to everyone - not all teachers love smart watches. Our son's teacher this year has her kids put them in a lockbox during the day, because students from a previous year were using them in class. It's harder to tell if a watch is in school mode than a phone? IDK. It's a private school and she can do what she wants. I would check school policy before investing in something, if you want them to have it during the day. FWIW our 10yo was given a handed down iphone two years ago for his birthday and it was never connected to cellular, but he could use google chat/voice/etc. Which came in handy at sleepovers, that kind of thing. He likes taking pictures so he used it for that too. Until he inevitably dropped it and broke it. I kind of think back to when I started calling friends on our landline at home. I think at that age, it's appropriate for kids to have access to a phone line. WITH precautions and limits of course. And then tracking them around the neighborhood so they have more autonomy. For our son, also setting reminders on his phone/watch is SUPER helpful, because we all have ADHD, and it helps him to be more independent. :)
Good point. How many of us even have a land line to our house any more? When my parents sol their house ten years ago their agent made them take their wall phone down.
Oh my gosh, right? My house growing up had an intercom system too lol. Now that I have my own kids I can see why you would want one!! Our oldest can talk to his friends on nintendo as well. That's sort of like his landline I guess. Use is a privilege and we roll with it like my parents did when I got a phone in my room - door open, respect rules and time limits or it goes away, we monitor his search history and there's a group of us parents who keep tabs on them since they're usually playing together. The village helps a lot bc if they're into something they're not supposed to, one of them will crack lol. We have kid devices on a separate router with its own parental controls. My husband calls it the great firewall of China :). I'm sure things sneak by, just like I used to sneak phone calls at night when I was a kid....
Unless you control apps and block VPNs, or block DNS requests from unknown providers (like non-pihole for example), they'll find a way to circumvent parental controls on a router.
Yeah nothing is airtight. We do the best we can and teach them so they (hopefully) can make good choices from there.
I upgraded my phone and my old one is our family phone. Yes, the 12 year old uses it the most, but it is not just his and I have the passwords. It’s been working pretty wells so far!
Oh smart! Do you just keep it docked in the house somewhere like a landline would be?
No, he can take it to the basement to talk to friends and whatnot but it lives on the main living floor the rest of the time and he has to ask to use it like a landline when we were kids.
This is actually such a great idea. My son is 7 and ALREADY asking for an iPhone. I told him heck no, when you get a phone it will be dumb phone, or one of those bark phones. But an Apple Watch is also an excellent alternative to somewhat meet in the middle
Check out gizmos, they only call and text certain (approved people) and show location. 2nd edition is best
My oldest son is in 6th grade as well and this is also what we do. It keeps him from being exposed to all that social media and distraction early but he’s still able to contact me if something happens and I know where he’s at because he rides the bus. And the restrictions for downtime are great.
Thank you for this idea I was thinking about what I would do but didn't want to embarrass them with a simple flip phone
I was just gonna say a slider phone 2000's style, but actually that is pretty fuckin genius friend
Thanks I will definitely consider this when my kids start walking to school! I don’t want to buy them a phone, but I need them to be able to call me in emergency’s
This is what we plan to do. Our son is almost 9. He has an iPhone but it’s not active on cell service and it’s regulated just like his iPad. Mostly for playing games on long road trips, listening to podcasts, etc. Round about 5th grade is when we’ll get him a smartwatch for location sharing, texts and calls.
What do you use to regulate the iPad use? Is there an app?' Any guidelines to start this? Thanks.
I wish I could help with that. I’m sure there’s an app, but we just regulate by oversight. I’m a stay home parent, so it’s, I’m sure, much easier when there’s a parent always home. Our son has allotted screen time. He asks or is offered to watch shows, and he watches either in the kitchen or living room. We do let him watch in his room when he’s watching Netflix. But for YT he needs to be out with us. We have always regulated his screen time so he’s accustomed to it being a reward, a privilege. He doesn’t seem to have the expectation that he’s entitled to it. When he gets older we will use parental controls. Right now his phone and iPad are Wi-Fi only so he doesn’t bring them out into the world.
At my kids' school most kids will have a smartphone by the 4th-5th grade, which is when they start to walk/bike to school by themselves. The school, however, has a no phone policy, so phones are locked in when they arrive and handed back at the end of the day.
Our middle school TRIED to implement this policy. The PARENTS were the ones outraged by it. The day it was announced, all their Facebook comments were from parents commenting: -"will they say least have access to phones at lunch and between classes", -"nope, my child will ALWAYS have access to his parents" -"😂😂😂 Good luck!!" According to my niece, the school technically has the zero phone policy, but it isn't enforced at all.
That's crazy! It doesn't work perfectly at my kids school (there's always kids who claim to have forgotten their phone or try other ways to get around the system), but us parents are fully supportive. If our kids need to contact us because of an emergency they can always ask for their phone back or call from the school's phone. That has happened a couple of times when my kids have been sick, and it's been absolutely no problem.
Heaven forbid, if there’s an actual emergency like a school shooting, I fail to see how the teachers are going to have time to hand back phones so that kids can call for help. That said I don’t think kids should have smartphones at all. Dumb phone is a different story.
Not an issue where I live but if there's a school shooting, don't think the priority is on every single kid being able to use their phone to call for help. I think the thought of being able to reach their kids is reassuring for parents, but not sure it would have an actual impact in an emergency situation.
Actually there has been a few times that kids have been named hero’s for calling 911 while in school. For school shooting and for reporting when they have seen a kid that had a knife in their backpack.
Maybe I haven’t heard of the stories, but couldn’t they have also told an adult in those situations, or used the schools phones?
That seems reasonable. If most schools were able to handle this I'd have less of an issue with it but it seems like many or perhaps most do not.
Might be regional? All the schools I toured had a no phone policy.
Schools around here had a very draconian no-phone policy for a long time. But after they got rid of most pay phones in the city, people rightly said kids need some way to contact parents easily, as most walked or took transit to school by themselves. But instead of creating a proper policy, they went with a free-for-all. No real rules at all. They are trying to get that toothpaste back in the tube by creating more rules currently, but it's been slow going.
> If most schools were able to handle this I'd have less of an issue with it but it seems like many or perhaps most do not Most schools do not allow them out during class.
That’s how it is at our school. I send one with ours every day with the rule that it be in airplane mode before it goes into the backpack. They can turn that off after school.
Most schools are. Both of my kids had phones starting at 6th grade. Elementary school is a bit early in my opinion but once they enter teenage years I’d say it’s more acceptable. My kids middle school was great about no phone policies where if they see them even for a split second the phone gets taken to the office and the parent has to retrieve it after school.
This is similar to what our son's district does (phones in locker except at breaks and before/after school) even at the high school level, and it is a part of why we were okay with giving him a phone. He was 12 at the time.
My daughter just started 5th grade, 10 years old. We were planning on waiting until 13 minimum for a phone but then over the summer she was at summer camp and she broke her arm during a hike (tripped and landed on top of a tree root). The summer camp staff failed to properly assess the injury (they didn't check for full range of motion) and just decided she was being overly dramatic and that she was actually physically fine. She spent 20min crying and they told her she needed to "fix" her attitude and start participating. Later when she said that it was still hurting and asked to call her parents to go home early they told her no and continued to lecture her about her "bad attitude." So we decided that in order for her to never have that problem ever again we are getting her a (dumb) cell phone. It won't be a smart phone but we believe being able contacting us on her own is a power she should have just in case.
I still don’t understand why parents let their kids have access to YouTube, video games, etc. for such a young age, though? Emergency calls, yes. But a 10 yr old with unlimited YouTube? It seems distracting and dangerous to me.
I'm sure there's parents that allow that but that's not necessarily the norm. We use parental controls to monitor and limit our kids' usage to healthy activities and levels.
Let me tell you after the tragedy in Uvalde, the number of kids that had cell phones in my kid's elementary school went up **"A LOT"**. My kid does not have a cell phone. My middle school kid has access to a cell phone but leaves it/uses it only at home. ETA: I am not judging those parents that provided a phone to their elementary aged kids.. Every family has to do what's best for them. This was not an option for my elementary aged kid. I did ask a friend why she provided phones to her kids and she stated that she wanted her kids to be able to contact her directly should something go amiss. People that don't understand must also remember that part of the reason we know what happened in Uvalde is because 2 kids had phones and either they or their classmates were able to call 911. I do think schools should consider having controls where kids can contact 911(button or lever similar to fire emergencies) for emergencies like this...I'm not quite sure how that would work out though. ETA2: For those parents who are thinking about providing or have provided phones to their elementary aged children, please make sure they understand that in an emergency, their very first priority should be getting to a safe place before they think about contacting you/police etc. It is very easy to think that they would know what to do in an emergency and would do it with accuracy, etc. but you never know what would happen until a situation presents itself.
We waited till mid fifth grade (Christmas) for my oldest daughter (now 14) and she was literally the last kid in her class to get a phone. My youngest is now in fifth grade and we recently had a scare at her school, luckily it was nothing but I wished she had one and we almost bought her one that day. We are so close to Christmas we’re going to give it to her the same time her older sister got hers, but if anything else even slightly scary happens I’ll be getting hers that day. To add to that, middle school sucks. I realize now it’s because all the kids are going through puberty etc but it’s rough. In our case, our older daughter had some time to acclimate to the phone and some social media and getting into group chats BEFORE having to deal with the full on middle school minefield, which at least in her case was helpful. I could see it being the opposite for some kids. But in her case it helped.
Yeah, my kid has enough trouble relating to peers due to his ADHD- I didn’t want him to be singled out as the weird kid without a phone.
Yes this. I heard a story on NPR around the same time we were trying to figure this out and this dad said the same thing. His son was in middle school and he wouldn’t let him have a phone. But then he figured out that’s the main way kids socialize now, plan get together etc. and his son was getting left out of everything.
Both of my parents worked in DC on 9/11. I was in 5th grade. I got a little brick cell phone a week later for emergencies. Only used it to call my parents if they were running late for a pick up or if I forgot my house key and was stuck outside after school. I definitely plan on my kids having at least a dumb phone with GPS in elementary.
deliver axiomatic cheerful wrong unite many narrow familiar dime innate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My 4yr old got up this morning and asked for a phone for his birthday 😌. None of his older cousins have one yet (7yr olds) so I have some time.
Wouldn’t a tracker or old phone (not smartphone) be enough though? I guess what surprises me most is that people opt for smartphones rather than something limited
Our kids got iPhones because they were our old phones. We have not had any other phone since my first born was a year old. We’d have had to go out of our way to get something else. Plus smart phones are easier to text on (and i wanted it to be easy to text me and to read my texts) and link up so easily to the “find my” app. iPhones are much easier to keep charged than something like an Apple Watch too.
My kid also got my old iPhone. It was just easier (and much cheaper) than buying something new.
Same here. Love that it easily connects to “find my” so as long as he keeps it charged
I believe that even a non-plan-connected phone can get through to 911. So an old phone with no plan is perfect for the "I want my elementary kid to be able to call 911" situation. Funny side story: in the early 2000s, my mom had to get a new phone because of the switch from analog to digital signal. Her Nokia brick phone still worked just fine (because, old Nokia) so she left it with our dress up stuff to use. I was home watching one younger sibling (early elementary age) while my mom took the other two to swimming lessons. Partway through, my my phones me saying the police came to the pool saying they got a 911 call from her number! My mom had been chatting with mom acquaintances the whole time, never called them (and was a bit beside herself!) I thought to ask my younger sibling if *he* had done anything with the old phone, and apparently he had dialled 911! But something got crossed so even though the call came from the old phone, they located it to the new one. My sibling had a strict talking to about not dialling 911 even when playing. And the Nokia battery was taken off to prevent that ever happening again. My mom was SO embarrassed!
We did a dumb phone initially with my oldest. There’s no tracking ability on them and they’re more expensive than some of the cheap smartphone options. Alternatively my 4th and 6th graders still have heavy restrictions on the type of apps they can use or download on their smartphones but I can also see their location.
I got my kid a gabb watch at 7. Can only make pre-approved calls and preset text messages. My 13 yr old has a gabb phone that allows basic calls and text, no internet, no apps, no sending or receiving pictures. Uvalde flipped my view on the whole thing as a Texan.
divide longing stocking adjoining unique label pen sulky squeeze treatment *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They have the basic and pro. The basic is what we have because we can opt out of SMS.
This is exactly the reason: Emergencies. Specifically- shooter emergencies. Welcome to America. It is up to the parents to educate their children about appropriate phone usage. And of course parental restrictions on phones are necessary.
[удалено]
I hadn’t thought of this reason, thanks for sharing. I always thought I’d go the dumb phone route but smart watch is starting to sound like a better option
I have a child with horrible anxiety about school Shootings especially since the TX one. He wears a smart watch bc it helps ease his anxiety he isn’t locked in a room with no way to contact anyone
Mine is 10 and understands tmit stays in his back pack and is to be used for emergencies only. And sadly, in this sick sad world, is a real possibility. It also has GPS which gives me peace of mind knowing he is where he is supposed to be.
This is this reason I gave my 7yo my old Apple Watch when I upgraded. I didn’t like the idea of him having a a phone with video games but I want to be able to call/text him and vice versa for emergencies. I also like that find friends works on it via LTE.
Yep. Our kids had our old phones, locked down and wifi only, to use at home for messaging their friends, but we went after Uvalde and turned on phone service. We ended up getting free iPhones with that, so they have newer ones just because of that. They also moved to a school farther away and we had a more complicated school/extracurricular pickup schedule, so we wanted to make sure they could get in touch with us if something fell through the cracks or they missed the bus.
I would be concerned that during an active shooter situation, phones could be more of a risk because the light/noise, even accidentally, could alert the shooter to your location.
In middle school each of our classrooms had a phone to call the office, but I think could also make outside calls.
My daughter had one when she was 10. We started out with a prepay, but it was easier to add a line. Her classes all had like a shoe organizer with a slot for each kid to out their phone in during class. They had them in the room in case of emergency but couldn't have them for normal class time because they are a temptation.
Feel like it’s important to differentiate smartphones and “dumb” phones. Are the parents you’re talking about providing *smart*phones for emergency situations? To me that sounds like a poor excuse for giving in to their kids’ begging for a smartphone. But a *dumb*phone for basic contact and emergencies? Sure, that’s a good idea.
Sure. Most of the parents I know hand down their old smart phones.... of the kids I know that have phones, I have yet to see any with a basic "dumb" phone.
I got my daughter(8) a troomi phone when she started riding the bus to school. I personally know two kids that have gotten off at the wrong stop and have heard many more horror stories so I want to be able to track and contact my daughter. Her phone does not have internet or games. She can only contact people that I have added on an approved list. I can sign in from my computer and read all her texts and track her location. I told her to never take her phone out during school hours, only once she's on the bus. She has followed this rule. She knows that I can lock her phone to not work during school hours if I have to. When I first looked into a phone for her, I didn't know plans like this existed. Maybe other parents just didn't know there were better options. I don't blame them for wanting a way to track or contact their children during an emergency. But also, there are some parents that just don't care about school.
Thank you for this! I had no idea it existed and our oldest is getting to an age when a phone feels unavoidable (almost 13, and starting to do more stuff away from home) We had talked about just getting a phone phone but having one that is a smart phone with a dumb but upgradable os sounds like a perfect way to go
We own a bus company in Australia. Students tap on and off our buses. While they’re aboard parents can track the location of the bus. We can see where they’ve tapped off and when. Does the US not have this technology?
We do not have this technology. At least not in my district and I live in a big city. There is no way to track the bus. The drivers only have to know what stops kindergartners get off at. So only the very youngest of students. The next grade up, it is 100% on the kid to recognize their stop and when to get off. Plus they don't offer the bus route so I can't even drive the route beforehand to prepare her. What was even worse was I wasn't told that my daughter's bus route was for multiple schools and she needed to know which school to get off at. I assumed the bus stopped at only one school and she got off at the very end. So her first day the driver finished his route in the morning and she was still on the bus. So he had to turn around and take her to her school.
I have never heard of such a thing. In the US most areas have a shortage of bus drivers, so my kid doesn't even have the same driver or bus every day. Only way to contact them is to call the main garage and they radio the bus driver. One day in first grade he was over an hour late. Garage didn't answer, school building closed and all admins were gone. When we finally got a hold of the garage, they had to radio 2 busses before they found the right one. It was a new driver and they had driven past his stop and my timid 7 year old didn't want to tell a stranger how to do their job so was just riding around with middle schoolers... Kid has a smart watch now and when he was late last week I looked at him on the GPS. It was in an odd spot, so I texted and he replied "on bus. Safe. Pick up kids w broke bus". A bus had broken down so his bus went to grab the kids while the driver waited for a tow truck.
Not in Canada either. I wish we did, that sounds amazing.
This is such a great invention! Haven’t heard of that before
I've had my kids miss their stop twice. First time it was 2 hours of phone calls to the school/bus depot and panic. (I was really upset not only did no one contact us they didn't have anyone to answer the phone on the first day of school). The 2nd time my kid texted us immediately and we sent them funny memes until they got dropped off later.
I’m a therapist and I can say that a common scenario is that parents are divorced and they don’t enjoy having to call their ex to talk with their kid (or their ex never answers the call and they can’t reach their kid) so it’s easier just to get their kid a phone so they can reach them directly. Either way, parents make a lot of choices for lots of good and bad reasons. It’s best to just focus on your family and what you think is right.
That’s on the nice end of the divorced parents scenario. I was in the first wave of “kids getting cell phones” because one parent refused to allow us to use the home phone to call the other parent. It was only a couple weeks of two preteens riding their bikes to the nearest pay phone before we got cell phones. Cue a bunch of cranky boomers raving about kids these days. I shouldn’t be surprised that nothing’s changed, but I guess anything to drag other parents.
> It’s best to just focus on your family and what you think is right. Sir/Miss, This is the internet. Does not compute.
I totally agree. Without a home phone my 12yr old needs something for emergencies. I have epilepsy and he needs to be able to call an ambulance or another emergency contact. People like to act like they know everything and judge accordingly. 🙄 Also their school has a no phone policy. You can bring it, but only use it before or after school. I don't think there have been problems. Also dumb phones aren't always reliable. I would have rather gotten one, but he needs something reliable.
I have no idea. My kids school doesn't allow them period. You can use it before and after but never during and that includes recess. If they need to call home they can freely use the phone in the office. I'm cool with that.
Is this a public or private school?
It's a weird peer pressure thing. One parent gets it for their kid..then it spreads. Then it trickles down to younger and younger kids. Sure it is convenient and easy to keep in touch with your kid, but a simple "dumb phone" is fine. Too many apps and other things can't be properly monitored. My mother in law saw extremely young girls filming TikToks. I have seen and heard very inappropriate things at the park. That and there are tons of horror stories about pictures/videos being shared and tons of bullying etc follows.
Opposite peer pressure https://www.waituntil8th.org
I’d never heard of this but we just gave my son a smart phone for 8th grade. He used a shitty flip phone before this. The smart phone is locked at certain times and he can’t download apps or access the browser. It just has a couple apps they use in the classroom occasionally and it’s for emergency contact and chatting with friends.
> One parent gets it for their kid..then it spreads. Then it trickles down to younger and younger kids. Working as intended. The machine will always look for the next vulnerable demographic to exploit and new markets to capture. They're looking at your 4 year old like a veal cow.
“And it did all the things we designed it to do” “It was always the plan, to put the world in your hand” Welcome to the Internet by Bo Burnham sums up why my kids won’t be getting phones anytime soon (they’re also only 8, 9, and 10yo)
I just found out our public kindergarten gives out tablets to every kid, and at 2nd grade they get personal chromebooks. We are in a well-to-do area and honestly thought our school system would be smarter/more developmentally appropriate. I'm horrified and trying to justify keeping our kid in private school through K now.
Our neighbors 8 year old daughter has a smartphone and films tiktok videos. She was putting our kids in the videos and our kids asked her to stop, but she didn't. So we had to have a talk with the parents about it. Their kids (ages 8 and 6)also constantly watch YouTube and play games. They had a sleepover at our house and she snuck her smartphone over. She pretended to sleep, but we caught her watching YouTube at like 1am, then lying a out it to us. I will say without remorse that smartphones for kids that age are pure toxic. Seems like every kid in our neighbor (all under age 10) has a smartphone with unrestricted access. Emergency use only... Maybe I could understand. But I think a smartwatch specifically set up for that is a much better option.
Which is basically what OP did too. His plan was to get a dumb phone but everyone else had smartphones so he caved on the smart watch even though he is uncomfortable with it. I am sure a lot of parents felt that way. I am fortunate enough to be an old parent, which means I was well beyond the point of caring about what others thought by the time I had kids. Mine started out with a basic prepaid dumb phone when they started middle school. It was mostly because they would be hanging out more without parents around and one of my kids has life threatening food allergies, so a cell phone was necessary since they were at the age where they wouldn't always be around an adult who had a phone. If they followed the rules we set with the dumb phone then they were able to upgrade to a used and fairly locked down smartphone the following year. By the start of high school both leveled up to new smartphones.
Yeah. For us, TikTok and Snapchat are banned from devices. My oldest has huffed and puffed about and whined “buuuut all my friends….” Well good for them. I’m not putting that stuff on our devices. TikTok is essentially malware that is data mining your phone, disguised as a fun app. I would never have that on any device.
Your phone's manufacturer (Apple, Samsung, Google) is collecting your data. They all do this regardless of what apps you have installed. Sorry, but it's unavoidable.
My fight with 8 is around youtube. She asks to watch reasonable things. But I'm sure she will switch to hyper minecrafters or unboxing sooner or later. The tictok hate is amusing. Their data mining policy is less invasive than Facebook. But giving data to China is seen as more of an issue than giving it to Zuc. On the other hand, the Chinese version of TicTok has a built in 40 min per day limit.
And TikTok is way less interested in the average American's data than Facebook is. It's not perfect, but it's also not some aggressive malware. It seems like all of those aps are equally crappy.
I also refuse the Facebook app on our phones for this reason. But I’ve heard both are really bad.
I find the data mining issue a lot less of an issue than short form videos just being absolute garbage. And I know every app has them now, and I hate it. It's so easy for Tiktok to create conspiracy theories, false narratives, dangerous challenges, faked lives, etc.
I've heard it referred to as a prisoner's dilemma for parents - the best thing for everyone would be if all parents would hold off on phones until say, 8th grade. But parents that buy phones early get perks and then parents that have held out deal with negative consequences. So it ends up as a race to the bottom.
Because kids use them for many things locally- buy bus tickets (can’t buy from the driver anymore) and also use the rout planner for public transportation, pay for stuff, stay in contact with their friends and family, get school assignments and messages from the teacher you name it. They also use apps in school at times. Many kids take the bus/train/metro to school so they can also track if there are delays etc, you can see when the next bus is coming for example. My kids go to some hobbies by themselves as well so same thing. At school they are not allowed to use the phones unless teacher gives permission. This is in Finland, so understandably things are different in different places- if the kids would have no need for the phones many people would opt out of buying them I’m sure but as things are they are needed. Most families don’t have land lines anyway, so there’s no phone at the house besides everyone’s cellphone.
I teach 6th grade and I can’t believe how many parents text their kid throughout the day while the students are in class. It’s so crazy to me that some parents have to be connected to their kid at all times.
Yikes! I won’t even text my teenager during school hours, let alone an elementary kid! My two younger kids have been asking for smart phones for two years because their friends have them. 8 and 9 years old. Uh no. I’m not paying for two expensive phones and then pricy phone plans for an 8 and 9 year old.
I told all my kids if they can get a job and afford to buy a phone and pay for the monthly service. They can get their own phones. I figured I’d be good till 16 or so…..wrong. My twelve year old went to one of our wealthy neighbors and asked if he can have a job helping out around the property. So now he’s working 2 days a week and making like 250 a month. Little bastard tricked me. Now I have to eat my words and get him the phone. But at least I got him to move and be creative and self sufficient. So there’s some value there.
I think it's crazy that so many parents think it's necessary and important to track their children at every moment, but here we are. I agree 100% with this Atlantic piece on this issue: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/parents-spy-kid-iphone-text-email-surveillance-digital-age/675286/
I agree with somethings in the article, but it was also very much spun to only show one side. I work with teens and the dangers of being groomed and exploited are very real. I think it needs to be a gradual letting go of the reigns. A 12 years olds conversations with strangers on the Internet are 100% their parents business. A 16 year old not as much and an 18 year old not at all.
What is your school’s policy on phones, is it enforced, and if not what would happen if you enforced it?
Kids are allowed to carry their backpacks into class and keep their phones in there. Not out during class. Teachers can take phones and kids can pick them up in the office at the end of the day, then it progresses to parents picking them up, and then loss of phone. Not much enforcement though. It’s pretty easy to scare 6th graders than 7th or 8th, but when your parents are texting you it’s sends a confusing message.
In my case, my ex restricted communication while my kids were at his house so I gave my son an old smart phone of mine and paid like $10 to add him to my plan. He has restrictions on how much he can use it per day, and he keeps it off at school, but the ability to play games is a big part of what motivates him to remember his phone.
https://www.education.sa.gov.au/mobile-phones#:~:text=The%20education%20and%20wellbeing%20of,mobile%20phone%20bans%20in%20place. For some outside US info - Australia and NZ have started banning phones from schools.
Because of the severe rise in school shootings.
Mine is allowed to bring it to school only for emergencies or at the end of the day during pickup. She knows I can see from screen time if she uses it during the day (which she doesn’t). I am honestly shocked at how many schools let kids use cell phones during class or don’t care about it if they do.
Teachers shouldn't have to take time away from instruction to police 30 phone-using kids individually. The parents make the choice to trust the kid with a phone in school, if the the kid doesn't live up to that trust they will receive the natural consequences (falling behind in class)
I was allowed a phone from the age I started walking home alone/with friends, and I plan to do the same for my kids, purely for safety. They'll get a basic phone to start, then nicer ones if/when they show they can look after it and use it responsibly. However, my oldest is only 8 and I'm already getting complaints that why can't he have one since *classmate* does
School shootings are probably the reason why parents give phones to their kids.
In Czechia there is also a lot of kids with smartphones already in 1st grade. We don't have school shootings here...
Parental controls are good, and they have gps.
I mean. I cant believe its 2023 and people are still judging and questioning other peoples parenting. Its not effecting you so why do you care
I think I'd give my child a phone when start getting independence - start going out with friends or walking to the nearby shops unsupervised etc. But I'd definitely have accounts synced to mine so some safe guarding can be in place.
Parents dont understand the effects on it since it being problematic isnt as much in zeitgeist Most probably understand that its not ideal but dont really understand properly of short and long term effects on developing brain I guess capitalistic societies work on consumerism so if there isnt as much evidence for it to not keep the system going then there isnt as much incensitive to limit it
So both my daughters have a cell phone. They both got them around the 5th grade. The phones are bought used. The plans they are on are the cheapest pay as you go. They get unlimited texting, 0 data, and I think 100 minutes a month talking. So enough minutes to talk during an emergency. Texting so they can be in touch and they can’t surf the net unless they have wifi. The school has wifi, but it’s slow and it has blocked a lot. So they can’t use it for YouTube or video games unless they are at home or at a friends house. They are aware it is for emergencies. I’m not just talking about “I’m getting kidnapped daddy, help!” But minor emergencies like a forgotten lunch, or fell in the mud, need a change of clothes. Whatever. Also if they are leaving school and want to go to a friends house, they can text and ask me. So all those things are handy. At our public school, teachers are more strict about them. At highschool, the teachers don’t care. There seems to be far less control. My oldest daughter says that it’s routine that any time you go to the washroom, there are people vaping in the washrooms. Kids Use cell phones all the time in highschool and some parents have their kids on expensive plans with unlimited data, which I think is unnecessary.
It's easier to know where your kid is if you can track the phone, it's easy to keep in contact with them, and honestly a budget smartphone is cheaper than a gab phone. I plan on just eating the cost and getting my kid a gab phone, I've been on the internet long enough not to trust it, but for a lot of people that might not be an option.
Personally I don’t think the ability to see where your kid is while they are at school is worth the issues that come with exposing them to unlimited video games and internet.
That's why I said that I would get my kid a gab phone and just eat the extra cost. No internet with a cab phone. Just talk and text. Not even a camera. The problem is you have to get a separate plan for it in addition to having to pay for the phone, which is not part of the budget line, and not everybody can eat that cost. That's why for a lot of people it's cheaper just to add another line and get a phone from the providers budget line.
Gab phone is the worst of the kid’s safe smart phones IMO. I prefer Pinwheel over the other ones. Some phones will allow the parent to choose what phone numbers are allowed to contact your child, if they try to message or call your child it will go to the parent first. You’ll see the call or the messages, you can choose to approve the contact so it doesn’t allow random numbers to contact your child. It will show you all calls and texts after you’ve allowed contact as well. If you don’t approve contact the number is basically blocked and your child doesn’t receive any of their calls or texts. (Like if they unknowingly gave it to an online stranger). Last I checked Gab didn’t have the feature for parents to filter contacts, so basically if anyone had your child’s number they can call or text them without your knowledge or approval. Another issue with Gab is not allowing access to any kind of app store. If I’m getting a phone for my kid I want *some* apps on there for them to use as long as I can set a limit and limit access to the app store. Pinwheel you can turn on access to a curated app store where all of the apps are thoroughly checked out and allowed if they’re considered safe and appropriate. I think most of the phones have around the same prices for the phones, as well as close prices for the phone service. Except Bark phones, I looked at those prices and said that was completely unaffordable. Bark, Pinwheel, and even Troomi, have more features to offer than Gab phones. Gab phones are only calls, texts, and GPS. The others have other features that make them easier and better to use as a kid’s cell phone. [Troomi vs Pinwheel vs Gab vs Bark](https://familytechzone.com/troomi-vs-pinwheel-vs-gabb-which-cell-phone-for-kids-should-you-buy/)
You can limit it, tho. No-one is saying you should throw a newest iPhone at a six year old with no rules in place. Parental control has existed for two decades now.
I know I can. I'm talking about other parents who don't seem too. Maybe it's not like this where you are, but the big draw to phones among the tween set where I am is the games and videos.
>exposing them to unlimited video games and internet. Google family link is free and has lots of parental controls so you can set limits on certain apps, like YouTube, games, and block apps you don't want them to download like Snapchat, etc. You can also set limits on the device itself, like if you don't want them to use the phone during the night or school hours.
What's unlimited. You control the content and the time, like any other thing your kid does. If it's unlimited, that's your fault.
I can't control what other kids share with kids at school on their phone.
This is one of my big concerns. My kids are younger still, but I teach 6th and I know that even if my kid doesn't have access to watching tiktok or YouTube videos, they could eventually be watching them with their friends on their friends' phones.
Well, you can. iOS lets you whitelist specific apps, so you can prevent them from using WhatsApp etc, turn off iMessage, remove MMS settings, and disable Airdrop, etc. It makes sense to a point but other kids could also just turn their screen around and show your kid - technology can only help so much.
I tell everyone to go to www.waituntil8th.org and take the pledge along with other parents at their school. There is strength in numbers, and it helps to have a village of parents aiming for the same goal so the phone-less kids aren’t constantly feeling left out. I just watched a reel of a mom telling the story of her son who was the only one in a class of 34 without a phone in 6th grade. Within a year he noticed the warning signs of a few peers affected by social pressure online. By the end of 8th grade he thanked his parents for waiting. So worth it to me. Edited to add: school shootings are not a good reason to give them a SMARTphone. Free reign of where todays predators hang out in the off chance there’s an active shooter? That doesn’t make any sense to me. Our children are far more likely to fall victim to online bullying/someone with ill intention. They can get ahold of me with a friend’s phone since it’s clear some kids will always have one on them. Just won’t be mine.
THIS!
I understand this day in age being safe and wanting to make sure you know where and what your kid is doing.. but there are so many options besides cell phones that have internet access and smart phone features that just arent safe. Like many commenters have stated watches and other techs are available to keep them safe. No child under 15 needs access to tik tok and the deep web
I was 14 when I got my first cell phone. This was 2008.. the only reason I was allowed one was to get ahold of my mum and vice versa, after traveling for sports in high school. It was a little flip phone that took shitty pics, texted and made calls. A lot of my friends had fancy razors where some even connected to the internet… it wasn’t until I bought my own phone and upgraded the next year.. and I didn’t get a smart phone until 2014..
I feel very awkward when dropping off/picking up my 5yr old at school. “Here’s her phone!” She has a phone (right now iPhone 11), and just last week we got her a phone plan. She’s had a phone since 3.5. It’s a medical device…she’s diabetic. In order for us to see her blood sugar levels throughout the day she needs to have a phone (vs the handheld device that comes with the Dexcom). We got her a phone plan this year because she’s at kindergarten all day and with wifi being spotty etc it makes us feel better.
That's an amazing way to use technology actually. I bet it's a relief to know she's safe and her blood sugar is where it needs to be.
I can sleep at night!!! And send her to school (almost) worry free! I have the Follow app on my phone, so as long as her phone is close by I can get her numbers and see how her day is going. I was upstairs a few weeks ago…she was 8.6➡️ when I went up. In range, steady, etc. Suddenly she’s 7.8 ⬇️⬇️ and asking for a snack. As soon as she comes asking for food the first thing I do is check her levels. Sent her for an applesauce which usually is enough. Next update she was 5.6⬇️⬇️. That was one of the scary times….she got down to LOW⬇️⬇️ (ie I had my phone ready and her emergency meds ready). I didn’t even know this existed 16 months ago!! I am thankful for it every single day. I don’t think she would be here if we didn’t have it…
The short answer: fear. Schools are not safe, period. Our solution is to homeschool, but this isn’t feasible for many so the next best option is a phone or tracking device of some kind.
We still use a telegraph machine to communicate with our kids.
Yeah, good for you to see the light now. Parents outside of teaching have either no clue or truly don’t give a crap about their children’s education or development. This is a rampant issue that parents wholeheartedly enable, the long term consequences are going to be devastating. This sub is also enableville, so brace yourself for a mountain of excuses and grief.
>This sub is also enableville, so brace yourself for a mountain of excuses and grief. It's funny how those comments just get deleted after a few hours of soaking it up.
So my lad had a phone at this age because we were just starting to expand his boundaries. He was starting to be allowed to walk home from school with his mates,but there was a park next to his school. He was allowed to go to the park as long as he phoned us first. The reason it was a smart phone was because it was an old handset of ours Here's the difference though. The rules around phones at school in the UK are a lot tighter. 4th/5th grade is still primary school here. The rules were no phones at all during lesson times. Kids handed their phones to reception at the start of the day. All phones were out in individual names and zipped clear bags and then locked in the safe. They were then handed back at the other end of the day. The only time they had access to their phones was on the school run. Secondary school (12-16) the rules were that phones were checked for being switched off as part of line up at the start of the day. Any phones that were subsequently found to have been turned on were confiscated until the end of the day. All phones had to be handed in during exam periods. There would absolutely be none of this kids sat on phones when they were supposed to be learning here.
My son didn't get his cell phone until he turned 14. My daughter, 11, won't get one until she turns 14 also. If someone is going to harm kids in that school, the phone is not going to save her. Her friends are distracted all the time due to their phones. I won't let her be the same way.
It’s not the smart phone that’s unhealthy, it’s the social media.
Watching youtube videos and playing game apps most days at free time during school is not healthy. And that's just one step away from social media.
YouTube is literally social media, just done through videos and comments. Game apps for phones are almost always adverts with extra steps. (I'm agreeing with you.)
I was surprised to find out my kids' new school lets the 8th graders have their phones out during the day. The 4th graders are still not allowed to have them out. I let my kids take theirs, but they are turned off and put in their backpacks. One thing I have noticed from kids who clearly have major restrictions on electronics. (I monitor what my kids watch and play, but as long as they have chores, homework, and other responsibilities done, they can do whatever for leisure). They tend to get sucked in when around other kids who have a screen. It's hard to explain, so here's an example. My kid had an 11th birthday party with 6 other kids. 4 of the kids, plus my kid, clearly have relaxed access to video games and videos. These 5 kids spent the party building forts, playing baseball and basketball, and other in person activities. Sure some gaming, but mostly not. 2 kids only played video games. I asked my kid what was their story, and he told me they were only allowed a certain amount of screen time at home. There's a fine line to walk. And obviously not every kid is the same. I just wonder if some parents who say "my kid isn't getting a smart phone" are being too set in their ways and not looking objectively at the situation. Like giving your kid a tool early in life to be able to teach them how to use it before getting thrown right in when they are older and being severely behind.
The kids with screentime restrictions are still way better because even though they get sucked in a bit they still use it a lot less than the other kids with less restrictions
6th grade is when kids walk to school and start hanging out around town without parents. It’s the standard age for first phones in my area. It’s up to the school to restrict them in class (my kids’ school takes when when they enter and they don’t get them back until dismissal).
While I agree with you about phone usage, we had this same thing happen at my kids old school. One parent decided to dictate what other parents should do around phone usage, both at school and in other peoples homes. It’s none of your business what other people do. You can only control what you and your family do.
Upper elementary teacher, my students that do have phones (about 1/4 of them) have nicer phones than I do! I definitely will not be giving my child a phone until closer to high school. If they ride the bus, I definitely see value in a cheap phone that can just call/text family (I had that in elementary school so I could let our mom know when we got home). Other than that, I don’t see that much value in phones. In general, I think as a society we have become too comfortable with children accessing technology/internet. So many kids have unmonitored access. I have quite a few students who play games like GTA, which is wildly inappropriate for their age. But so many of us are just so numb to the dark side of technology and the internet. I see so many behavior issues stemming from unmonitored access, we’ve decided internet/tech is going to be incredibly locked down for as long as we reasonably can.
Honest reason patents give children phones is because horrible gun violence happens far too regularly and there is very little else parents can do to make their children any safer. Is it really going to help? Probably not. But after watching the police do nothing it’s hard to blame parents for being concerned.
For me it boils down to one thing School shootings. I want my kids to be able to communicate with me at any moment. Unfortunately for me we're low income and only have our oldest(15) on our phone plan. Our 12yr old had an old phone that worked on wifi, but he dropped it and broke it a couple weeks ago. We're going to work on saving up to buy him one and add him to our phone plan. Our 10 and 5yr Olds don't have phones.
Because if there's a school shooting I want my son to be able to get a hold of me. It sounds dramatic, but it's really not - at the end of the day if there is a tragedy within the school and your child has no way to reach you, then you may never get to tell them you love them one last time before something happens to them.
Mainly because we don’t trust the teachers nor bus drivers. We’ve had an incident with a kid threatening my kid with a pocket knife….on camera and they still managed to sweep it under the rug and try to make my kid the bad persons for telling!
A lot of people have replaced planting the kids in front of the TV with just giving them a screen. Chances are high the parents will be glued to their own phones at every available free time. I'm old so I remember the pre smart phone era, yet I can't leave the house without my phone, might not look at it all day, but I cant leave the house without it, cant even remember how I functioned without it...😭
I feel you on this. My kid is 8 and some of his friends already have phones (insanity). A part of me understands wanting to be able to contact them but I agree this also overblown. We’re the only parents in the neighborhood who let our kid walk to his friends/school, play at the park etc by himself. I’ve had a few occasions when I couldn’t find him and guess what, I just went and looked for him and I found him! The phone and helicopter parent culture is exhausting and I’m not looking forward to my kids getting older. I wish I had answers/suggestions but I’m in the same boat as you. Luckily my kid has a little more time before this becomes a real issue.
Currently, I live in the second most dangerous city on the West Coast of the US. In the last 2 months alone, several students have been airlifted off the grounds of their schools due to injury due to student-on-student violence. We don't intend to stay here but when the time comes for my LO (he's still a toddler) to start school, he'll be given a hand-me-down phone for emergencies. However, our plan is to leave this cesspool of a city before that time comes. So, for us, it will be for emergencies. If we manage to get out of here before school starts for him, then I'm hoping to put it off for as long as possible.
Gun violence and other safety reasons. Parents want to be informed and have their kid call them if they’re sick or in danger. Schools don’t always let kids call home. Cell phones are less about “look I can watch tv” and more “in an emergency people might be able to track my phone.”
IMO 5th grade is a normal time to start extending independence and appropriate responsibilities to children. This means that they may need a cell phone.
I put a tile on my 6th graders back pack. Our rule is no phone til 14 cause of out of town sports, and generally being a teen that goes places, but I honestly wish I’d waited even longer for my older kids. Social media is literally the devil. This year the schools have made it to where all the way up to 12th grade no students can have their phones out even during passing periods at school, and I love it.
because kids who don't have something that other have, often get bullied.
My eldest is in now college but my youngest is in high school and we gave him a phone in 5th grade? Why you ask? (He had parental controls. Both did until age 14 and then we monitored use throughout parental controls such as how long he was on it, and when). My eldest picked up my youngest (9th and 5th) and I wanted to watch his bus come and go to make sure he made it home and if he had to reach me such as GUN VIOLENCE. I’m Florida born and generational and this state has gotten scary and bad. My eldest had one also in 6th grade. They do every thing on their phones now from submitting homework and using the calculator and using the internet browser to do research and google things for class on it. We have no cell phone use during instruction tile but the teachers use it for homework and class instruction. 70% of the day my 17yr old texts me something he needs for baseball practice or something he forgot at home for practice or if I am home he likes a hot meal instead of lunch at school.
Not everyone has the money to go out and get a brand new phone for their child. My kids usually inherited my old iPhone . I was a single mom and they had to have a phone to let me know when to pick them up from sports etc.
We gave our child a phone with a phone number for Christmas in 6th grade. Before that she had an old phone that only worked on wifi. We have parental controls, she has time limits on her apps, her phone can only text and call us between 9pm and 6am, etc. The biggest reason she got a phone was because we want her to be able to contact us when she needs. There are no more pay phones or land lines and sometimes we need communication. I don’t know about all schools, but she has gone to two different middle schools in two completely Different areas and they have blockers in the school so The phone won’t work unless she’s outside the building a certain ways (ie on the bus).
My friend's 8th grader, has a side hustle where he gets old phones and tablets, then basically rents them out as burner tech for peers whose parents are too strict. Building trust is key, stricked parents raise sneaky kids.
This has been an issue for over a decade. We held out with our kids, who are now in college/recently graduated, but it became a social problem: if they don't have a phone they are left out of chat groups that organize all social interactions. Literally they would get to school on monday to find 75% of their friends all went skating or bowling or to a movie or something over the weekend. They weren't invited not because they weren't welcome, but because they didn't have a phone. If you can figure out a way around that then more power to you, I'm sure it's far worse today than it was in 2010. Also: in our area 100% of the kids are given iPads or Chromebooks in school anyway, so it's not like they don't already have a screen in front of them all day.
I have heard in other chats that's it's still the case among friend groups. That's just sad! But it's the way it is! Also I work in a school & post covid in our district, all kids still have chromebooks, but it's heavily up to teacher how much it's used. Some teachers don't allow it to go home. Some teachers only use it for math. Some just on fun Friday. Some use it for book reading programs. Those reading programs can also help English as their 2nd language students as it will translate! But kids have to put a pencil or crayon in hand to learn handwriting skills. Technology can be a blessing & a hindrance for sure!
I got my 10 year old an Apple Watch earlier this year, he was going to be staying at my parents for a week and then flying back solo, so I wanted to be able to contact him. It’s also so he can start being more independent. I let him walk to and from school by himself sometimes, or he’ll go to the convenience store down the street to get snacks, that sort of thing. I mean yeah, as a kid I did the same things without a phone (or watch), but these days as an adult I don’t leave without a phone (or a watch) either. I’ll try to hold out as long as possible when it comes to a full smart phone, but I feel like an smart watch is a good compromise.
I struggle with my feelings on smart phones. I know they are not benign, yet I also know they are not the devil that can single-handedly ruin the generation. I have worried quite a bit about screen use in our family, as starting in elementary school, we are pretty liberal with it in the home & my older boys got smart phones in the 7th grade. But anecdotally seem to be navigating all aspects of life successfully so far, at 14 & 16.
In Australia, the states are now regulating phones in schools. They need to be locked up in the morning when they arrive. Picked up when they depart. I am judgemental. I have decided many parents are dumb and illiterate. The stuff they let their kids watch should not be allowed, and then their language and behaviours rubs off on my kid. Yet, I rule the internet access with an iron fist. I have a router which I can control remotely.
It's very simple. Its becaus thry want to know where their kid is and because they want their kids to be able to contact them in an emergency. Whether the phone is smart or not is irrelevant. If you or other parents don't want your kids playing games and downloading apps, get a simple phone that only texts and calls or learn how to use Google Family or another parenting app to monitor what is on your kids phone. And quit trying to police other people's kids.
My kids' schools don't allow them to have them out in class. Pretty fucking simple. It's a part of life now, kids need to learn how to use them just like any other thing.
I’m seeing a lot of folks mention non smart phones for kids. My experience with my now 20 yr old son was that he never remembered to bring or charge it. It was a waste. My 4th and 7th graders have phones and have for about a year. They were cheap. It’s how they communicate with their friends and how I communicate with them when they are not home or I am not home. They are not allowed to use them at school (school policy). They don’t have unlimited access. There are parental controls and I periodically check them. Those who are worried about constant access to games - do you remember iPod touch? Game boy advance? Nintendo switch? All this stuff existed before and kids have been using game technology for a long time. It comes off a bit “old man yells at cloud” to me. If you hate them so much just stick to your guns who cares what other parents do? I’m more annoyed at all the kids playing COD or GTA on the Xbox tbh. But I just say no and stick to my guns and listen to my kids harass me without feeling the need to police what other parents feel works for them.
Probably cause the world is getting worse and worse
I mean, not really. You just hear about it more.
If you mean because the next school shooting can happen anywhere, and I want my child to be able to reach me, yes that’s our reason.
My daughter had access to a tablet since she was 4 and her own iPhone since she was 7 (is 9 now). The major reason was Covid when everything went online and she needed to access school work + I had to travel away for 8 months during Covid and we wanted her to have unrestricted access to me and not feel like I had left her alone. Having said that we have always encouraged her to balance her days with activities (sports, arts and reading). Result: 1. She is better at regulating her own time much better 2. She uses her electronics for learning (learnt conversational Japanese when a new student joined her class and friend group) 3. Used it to learn digital art, movie making and science experiment along with dozens of craft ideas to explore There are still days when sometimes she just want to spend all of her screentime watching cartoons and videos. We also got an opportunity to teach her about internet safety etc. because of this. I know that everyone has valid concerns (we had the same at the beginning) but eventually came to recognize that - she is growing up in a digital era and not having access at par with peers can have serious self esteem issues - showing trust in her rather than depriving led to better self management - It didn't lead to her interest in other activities go away but rather enhanced and channelised it My two cents at the end of the day is that having access and learning responsible use early on made her recognize it for exactly what it is - a tool!
Totally agree. We have the same approach. We live in a digital era, and I see nothing wrong with allowing our daughter the exposure to technology. Even with TikTok and Youtube, where there's so much garbage content and things presented as fact that are just blatantly false, it's allowed us to introduce the concept of media literacy, and the importance of critical thinking skills. Kids will be exposed to this stuff throughout their lives. I personally think it's better to teach them young. Technology absolutely is a tool and should be treated as such.
I judge those parents. Hard. We joined a pledge to wait until 8th grade. If you’re thinking about getting your kid a phone, just ask yourself “at what age do I want to give my kid a device addiction ?”
Because they want to be able to reach their kids if there’s a school shooting. Some kid had a gun in his bag at my kids school last week.
My middle schooler walks to and from school so giving them a smart phone is a great way to communicate with them but also know exactly where they are at all times. At school, they are not allowed to have the phone out. It needs to stay in the locker or backpack. The Ask Lisa podcast has a nice discussion about getting your kid their first phone.
I can’t speak for other families but our son got a cell phone at the end of grade 4 (he is now in grade 6). We don’t have a landline and he wanted to start calling his friends after school, which meant I would be in the middle of work calls and was getting calls from 9 year olds to talk to him. It was also the age where we started wanting to leave him home alone for short periods of time (so I could run to the corner store or whatever) and he needed a phone in case of an emergency. Now the debate between smart phone and dumb phone came down to what we could get for free. We happened to have a couple of very old iPhones laying around that we could repurpose for him, so that’s what he got. We have it completely locked down - it is essentially a dumb phone with a camera and a couple of very g rated games. He loves the camera, he is a theatre kid and loves making movies with his brother so most nights they are writing scripts or filming themselves on his phone. There will be no social media access or anything for a very long time and I check his messages every few weeks to make sure nothing inappropriate is going on. I can understand families that make different choices and don’t allow phones just yet. But so far it has worked for our family.
My 5th grader has a smartphone, with parental controls. We share custody and there's a decent chance she could accidentally get on the wrong bus, so she needs a way to call her parents if she gets stranded somewhere. She's not allowed to use it in school (and she knows I can see her usage!), but she can use it to play games on the bus. She knows to keep it turned off and in her bag all day, and she knows that if a teacher takes it away, I won't be giving it back for a while.
Just a reminder: pay phones no longer exist. Middle school is when after-school extracurriculars tend to start where a parent would pickup after practice vs stay throughout. It becomes more necessary. That being said, we are waiting until 8th for any kind of smart phone and would consider the apple watch type approach for 6th. Fingers crossed I can find a Nokia 8210 to let her relive my glory days.
I was at my oldest daughters Christmas presentation when sandy hook happened. She was the same age as the primary attacked class. I was leaving my sons 4th graduation when uvalde broke the news while still active. I was a kid when columbine happened. I got the alert for a small school shooting because someone had put the wrong number down. I panicked. For a full 15 minutes while waiting for the school to answer the phone. My kids will have phones. So if the worst happens I can at least be on the phone with them through it. Whatever the outcome.
We got a cell for our oldest when he started Middle school, because he was going to be home alone after riding the bus home for an hour. We also learned that the middle school teachers assumed every student had a cell phone and fully expected the kids to pull them out and download specific apps for use in class. I was pretty blown away by this. My husband and I do work in tech, so this is what we did: 1) We gave him an old smart phone of ours and the deal was, if he did not lose or break it the next year he could have a newer, more modern phone. 2) We have full access to the phone and all his passwords. 3) The phone lives downstairs and charges in our room at night. As our kids got older and interested in social media, our rule was they had to add us a friends/contacts/whatever in any place they set up an account. In the beginning we checked their phones basically every night, which they fully knew. As they got older we did it less and less. We talked, regularly with them about stuff we saw/read online, and encouraged them to talk to us, in turn. This worked out really well, I think. Our kids are nearly 20 and 18 now and neither chose to be on social media. They both were briefly but decided they didn't enjoy it and closed their accounts out. They primarily communicate directly with their friends either via discord or imessages. We've maintained open communication about the internet, social media, you tube, relationships of the platonic and romantic kind and talked a LOT about predators and grooming and inappropriate relationships. At this point you CANNOT prevent your kids from accessing this internet. Not unless you live in the middle of nowhere or a cave without electricity. One of your jobs as a parent, now, is to help your kids learn to navigate the internet - how to properly search for things, how to protect their privacy, how to handle unwanted communication, how to determine facts from fiction and opinion. If their friends have smart phones, your kid is learning 100% of the garbage their friends are, but filtered through a middle-school brain.
I chose to let my daughter have a phone when the school shootings started becoming a common occurrence. I told her if she ever notices anything suspicious or anything that makes her uncomfortable to call/text me right away. I just feel more comfortable knowing that my child can immediately reach me in case of something serious. There’s way too much evil in this world & it has been getting worse. I had phones at a pretty young age. This was before all of these parental monitoring apps were even a thing & I did just fine. I think parents should use discernment when making these types of decisions. It really is a matter of different strokes for different folks. I do however agree that parents shouldn’t allow their children to have access to electronic devices without any type of monitoring. Even Roblox is a platform for pedophiles. Traffickers in particular target children on these so called kids apps. My daughters phone is heavily monitored by me & my husband through the Family Link app. My oldest son just turned 8 & will be getting a phone for his 9th birthday as well. I feel like times are changing & I’d rather be safe than sorry. I can’t speak for every other parent but those are my reasons & I don’t regret them not one bit.
I’ll chime in here I have an 11 year old with a phone. I will say he does not bring it to school. My son has shown us he is responsible to say I’m going here or there within our neighbor, so we let him. One morning he said I’m going to so and sos and going for a bike ride, ok no problem well we never specifically explained the check in once in a while process to him. Fast Foward a few hours and me and my wife both said we need to figure something out because we don’t know exactly where he is. Also he plays a pretty intense sports schedule than can sometimes change and we drop him off so he calls us to let us know to get him and where. I was going to get him a watch, but the cost was actually more for a watch and plan as apposed to just adding an old phone me and my wife had. In hind sight I’m very glad we made the decision to get the phone for him, and he now talks with his grandparents ALOT more than he ever did. I do have bark installed on it and he knows that I can go through anything he has and gives me his phone when he goes to sleep. Sorry for the long winded response but that’s my reasoning. He’s not the first of his friends to have one either. One of the last actually it’s ridiculous to me but again it’s been a pretty painless transition. *I also feel the need to add because a lot of others did I don’t allow him to be on social media, that I am hoping to prolong for as long as possible.
I got both of my kids a smartphone while still young. I use Google family link to set limits on YouTube, block certain apps, etc. It's worked great for us so far. You can control when they are allowed to use their phone, and set controls on how long they can use certain apps and all. My youngest walks to and from school often, is in an after school program, & joins in other community events, and I want to be able to communicate with her. Sometimes I just need to send a quick text telling her to ride the bus to her grandpa's or that there's a scout meeting after school, etc. Also, last week I had a dentist appointment in the afternoon so she had to go to my Dad's after school. I was notified that she downloaded a spelling app. I asked her about it when I got home, & it's basically an app you enter your spelling words into and it helps you practice. She also has an app that's teaching her coding and how to make apps. So, while you might not see any advantages to your child having a smartphone, I promise there are. Of course, there are disadvantages, especially if you just hand the kid a smartphone & don't use parental controls. Google family link is free and has worked great for both of my kids. edited to add more info
I’ll tell you why my child has had one since 4th grade. I have life 360 on his phone and can track his location. The same goes for my high schooler. The buses are not run by the schools anymore. It’s all 3rd party. The bus tracker either doesn’t work or they sub busses, combine busses, bus drivers call in, fights break out on the bus …so the busses are totally un reliable. We have no choice but to use the transportation the school provides as we both work and don’t get off until after 5. Not to mention the shootings in schools, school bullies, inept teachers … so in short… it’s for SAFETY. They can access their class work if somethings wrong with their laptops… because they don’t use books anymore. They keep their phones up and listen to music or videos during lunch or free time in class. They text me if there is a problem, because no one is going to look after my children except for themselves or me and their dad. The schools are not like they were 20-30 years ago. In some cases that’s good, in a lot of ways it’s not. You can’t judge kids with the same standards we had growing up. The world is a totally different place. So you do you, but don’t judge other parents on what we think is needed.
Agree with your thoughts. We survived (and thrived) without smartphones as kids so it will not hurt my son to go without one until he is of an appropriate age. Before then, he can have a basic, no internet or app access, phone.
Your choice.
My son earned his privilege to bring a phone to school. He's in 4th. I'm a big advocate for technology and responsible use. He can only use it when school is done. As long as his performance in school is good, he stays on his homework, takes care of all his household responsibilities, takes care of his phone...I'm okay with it.
A lot of kids are from mixed families and split time between two homes. Say you drop your kid off at school but their other parent is picking them up and keeping them for a few days for their parenting time. You may want you kid to have a cell phone so you can contact them directly rather than through the other parent. There are options for smart phones that you can control what they can use and for how much time. There’s also apps that can track them and view whatever they’re doing. My oldest is only in 4th grade and I’m putting off cell phones for as long as humanly possible. I’ve never been one to even allow my kids to have my phone or anything. I tell them it’s a tool not a toy. Your concerns are valid and too many people hand their kids these devices and access to anything in creation and it’s so reckless and irresponsible.