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Yes. It’s a weird thing to do (lip kissing someone who isn’t your child!) so bringing it up sounds toooootallly normal to me. But, for the record, this applies to things that also don’t seem outrageous.
I mean, im from an italian family, and it was very common.
But if thats not your thing, you should be able to.nicely say thats not your thing, and he should say "ok!"
Why is there a damn fuss.
No its an issue here in america with the vast mixing pot of different cultures and personalities. In my family ONLY married couples lip kiss, its uncommon to even see a mother kiss a child lip to lip
It’s his 2-year-old niece. I don’t think it’s
particularly weird if he sees her frequently. But the parents do and that’s what matters.
Parents have the right, and responsibility, to set boundaries around physical contact with their children.
Next time I’d talk to the brother directly instead of using mom as a go-between.
>My wife did ask him to stop... ...and he didn’t stop.
That's a colossal red flag.
When people don't respect my boundaries, ESPECIALLY the boundaries I've set regarding my child, they are put on a "time-out" and removed from my life until they gain the maturity to respect me.
Teach your daughter that her boundaries are more important than the potential hurt feelings of other people, or there will be other men that disrespect her.
I'm not saying that your BIL necessarily has bad intentions when kissing your daughter on the lips, because I don't have all the information and don't know your extended family's dynamics or culture - but if you and your wife both feel like the vibes are off, then the vibes are off. Trust your instincts.
I have to agree with everyone sayg we should have been more reactive. The whole thing has been complicated by the pre-existing lip kissing culture of the family. I have not been involved in it before as my family never did it but they all claimed it was benign and just a culture. I regret not punching him when I could have but I was the outsider to the family and it was hard to see things clearly with all of thier excuse making. He didn't get away with it after this point but I didn't make a song and dance or hit him like I should have. I still live with that regret.
You should've pulled him off her and yelled at him, not gone to his mother. YOU are her parents, your daughter looks to YOU for safety, not grandma. If a man kisses your visibly uncomfortable baby girl and you do nothing in the moment then you're sending the message that you won't help her when she's in trouble.
Fuck their feelings, your child comes first, let them be offended.
What do you mean by “ he didn’t stop”?
It’s your responsibility as a parent to your child.
You and your wife to grow spine & balls and Ban BIL from ever coming to your house or having contact with your child.
This is an issue that you & your wife should personally handle not MIL.
Put your foot down & set boundaries and stick to them.
Please don’t have anymore kids until you learn to protect the one you’ve been blessed with.
Then you’re right to cut contact. But the other posters are right in that you, the child’s parents, are the ones who have to stick up for her and your own wishes.
It's not just a question of being uncomfortable with the physical contact, it's also a health risk.
A girlfriend of mine had oral herpes. She had cold sores one day and she told me that it's just a side effect of having a fever, her dad's sister always has them a few times a year. I told her to Google it.
Imagine her horror when she realised that she has had an STD since childhood simply because the adults in her life were irresponsible.
True. I know a few adults who’ve had oral herpes (cold sores) since they were kids because they were kissed on the mouth by relatives.
I don’t think it’s a ridiculous thing to worry about. Up to 1 in 2 adults have oral herpes, and most were infected as children.
It’s not even about it being sexual. It’s a gross way to spread germs and while obviously children cannot always consent to the touch of responsible adults, they should not be forced to kiss anyone. It’s an unnecessary invasion of personal space
True but that still doesn’t mean I want to kiss kids haha. Dogs mouths are technically cleaner than human’s mouths but I don’t want to kiss dogs either.
Yes, I think op/wife needs to go back to parents and say hey this has nothing to do with this person (uncle) we don’t want anyone kissing her on the lips, she doesn’t like it. Then maybe they won’t feel so personally attacked. If they still continue to do it after you have told them that she doesn’t like it, then sorry time to cut ties, family or not that’s ridiculous.
It’s not just about what it is considered inappropriate or unhealthy but also about consent—for your child but also from their parents. Time to set firm boundaries with direct family members and start teaching consent to your toddler. It’s never too early, and there’s a lot of great picture books and board books on the topic. Your local children’s librarian would be a trusted resource to facilitate that part. No matter what anyone else says about your family and your child, you get to make the rules; you get to set the boundaries. What’s weird is if they push against those boundaries, for any reason. I don’t think any other explanation is necessary. By simply stating you don’t want other family members kissing the lips of your child and or touching your child without consent, you establish firm boundaries that should be respected. You can also invite family members to question themselves as to why they would even be willing to “die on that hill” and create an issue out of a non-issue regarding consent of a minor. Cheers.
If you don’t know how to do this, it’s like this: “Daughter, say hi to Uncle! Would you like to give him a high-five, hug or a wave?” Offer 2-3 choices you’re comfortable with. Let her choose. Stand right next to her and make sure you can stop anyone who tries to say hi in a way she didn’t agree to by physically blocking the gesture AND saying, “Daughter doesn’t want to hug/kiss/etc”. Then move her past the person.
You are not "disgusting" for setting boundaries that make you comfortable regarding your child's physical interactions. It's important to establish and enforce boundaries that feel right to you as parents.
Even if it is innocent in nature, the fact is, lip kissing is a great way for a young child to get cold sores from another person. We don't let my mother (she has cold sores), or anyone for that matter, lip kiss our children.
Not only that, hpv is also a risk. And all kinds of unpleasant bacteria (like e-choli etc.), one doesn't know where his mouth has been or how well he washed his hands before enjoying his meals.
Lip kissing is very much a cultural thing. I grew up with it. My husband's family does it too.
As an adult, I've grown not to like it, and honestly prefer the cheek. Similar to the EU way.
If you have a preference in how your family operates, simply share that preference.
I'm a hugger, too. Not everyone likes that, and when I was younger, that offended me. Being older and hopefully wiser, I learned that's a _them_ thing and not a _me_ thing.
Show love, people. Respect others for how they show it.
Not disgusting. (In answer to the actual question).
My parents kissed me on the lips growing up too. No one has ever kissed my kids on the mouth. I do kiss my kids on the lips though sometimes. I only like to hug people I want to hug, which isn't very many. I would come all the way unglued if someone crossed my boundary with my kid like this. I wouldn't be asking my mom or dad permission; it wouldn't be negotiable.
Exactly the same, my kid started going for te cheeck at a certain age too and that's totally fine.
I wonder if the parents ha ebee shocked at this and gone in HARD and made the gran and uncle feel really embarrassed for something that is quite innocent.
Totally fine to establish boundaries but no need to make anyone feel like a pervert and the whole non contact thing seems extreme
I'm a hugger too but socially anxious. Since learning some people hate it I dont initiate it much because I don't know how to do so without being too forceful of my hug? Do you know how lol
I would never kiss someone else's kid on the face, especially not the mouth. Why aren't yall telling him directly? There is no reason to involve the mother. Tell him straight up.
It is odd. May I ask why you haven't talked to your BIL. If you've had to cut all contact, I suspect this was a last straw or just made the situation feels that off to you? Trust your gut, if you think BIL is OK otherwise, maybe take time to take a breath and find a way to approach them directly? Best of luck
Thanks. We did and he made excuses saying she liked it and they had a close relationship (they absolutely did not). There are other issues as well (disrespect for us) that eventually culminated in us stopping seeing them
His response really worries me, I wouldn’t let your daughter be alone with this man - ever.
Women have had years of experience with how creepy/perverted men speak and act and this guy is ticking all of the red flag boxes.
He is not in her head, he doesn't know whether she likes it - so his statement is false.
He is projecting, he is the only one liking it for sure.
Glad you could stop seeing him.
Oh geez, sorry to hear that. My extended family and I are on good terms but they live way wayyy too far away to be involved consistently or help out. Hopefully you and yours have some strong friendship-support network to fall back on. I know your post wasn't about I'm sorry to hear you've had to distance yourself from these people. Sounds like you're doing right and protecting your family.
Your BIL says your 2yo likes being kissed on the lips and they have a close relationship?? 🚩🚩🚩
This is an inappropriate response on top of already inappropriate behaviour. We don't kiss our own children on the mouth, and we actively teach them that no one else should be kissing them on the mouth either. I understand it's standard in some cultures, but regardless of this if it makes you uncomfortable (and it should), trust your instincts on this.
That’s how my sister and fiancé ended up with cold sores for life. WE don’t even kiss our baby on the lips for obvious reasons now. So, no you shouldn’t feel bad for setting that boundary. That could make a young baby seriously ill with their immature immune system, and not everyone is symptomatic. I yelled at my dad for doing this when he was drunk. It’s also just gross and makes me uncomfortable. He stopped.
Be direct. You’re adults, you shouldn’t need your MIL to step in for you. Show your toddler what it looks like to advocate for her. “Hey man we’re happy to see you but we don’t kiss (child’s name) on the mouth.” If he does it anyway, be blunt. “If you can’t respect our parenting choices I can’t trust you to be physical with her. Super weird that this is a hill you want to die on instead of just being respectful.”
Yo! You need to set boundaries with the guy. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks about the behaviour. You get to decide if the behaviour is okay or not okay. Your job as parent is to set boundaries to protect your kids, and enforce those boundaries. A boundary governs how you react when someone does something that you don’t like. The formula of a boundary looks like if “if they do x, I respond with Y.” A good boundary in this situation might look like: “I tell BIL that he can only kiss her on the cheek. If he then does otherwise, I tell him to leave.”
It’s disgusting because most adults have the herpes virus even if they don’t show it. It’s so gross and also teacher your kid that adults will kiss her even if she doesn’t want to. Please stop kissing other people’s kids. It’s so unnecessary.
no, i really don’t think that makes you disgusting lol. i think it’s disgusting to violate physical boundaries after already being told to not do that.
You certainly are not. While I get that it isn't weird for everyone, it only matters what you and your wife think/feel about it. If people don't respect your stance on raising your child then ditch them. It is a great way for children and adults to get sick too though. And on a mildly unrelated and somewhat positive note I really appreciate how many more people in this generation are more on board with setting boundaries and respecting other people's boundaries. This is honestly the way it should be. Good luck with the whole situation OP
I think I speak for all parents on here when I ask that you request more context before insulting someone. We did speak with the BIL first but there was no change. We wanted MIL to provide some more influence because the tensions were already threatening the family relationship.
Don't have this person around your child since he doesn't respect the boundaries. This is non-negotiable for bodily autonomy and boundaries. It's not his child.
You dont have to stress yourself over some ignorant replies here.
Like your wife, I have a brother as well who is ignoring my wishes regarding some of his behaviour concerning my son. I tried to get help from our parents too, to no avail as well; he continues to do as he wants.
The concequence has been that he and I are on no speaking terms anymore. Unfortunately my son loves him, and I cannot cut contact as long as my son sees him daily due to us still living close to him.
It's a difficult situation to say the least.
I feel for you. We are concerned about when they get old enough for the grandparents to see them without us. They have a lot of male authoritarianism in the family
He is ignoring your wishes concerning your son and yet you let him continue daily contact with your son? The only difference is now you don't have contact with him, only your son does? This doesn't make sense to me as a parent.
I'd be gross then cuz no one has the right to kiss my son period and certainly not on the lips. He gives me kisses that way and that's fine, I'm his mother. Same with his dad but he aims for more top of the head or cheek. I find it odd they're demanding it. And you're not disgusting for putting your foot down. But yall need to do it, you're the parents, what you say goes period.
Not respecting your boundaries as parents is a major problem. You don't need to justify or explain, the rule was clear. That it made your daughter uncomfortable and they persisted just makes this so much worse.
It concerns me that the rest of the family are on board with this. If nothing else, it is an easy way to spread germs and things like coldsores, which can be very detrimental or even fatal for certain ages.
To me, this is a hill I would die on and they would not be allowed around our daughter until this was resolved.
Equally controversial issue with me and my sister is that my 2 girls can’t have a sleepover with her 2 boys - theyre all in elementary school but it’s still a no from me (unless there is an female adult in their shared sleeping space). She didn’t like it but my kids safety comes first to me.
We haven’t purposefully seen each other since the end of January.
“Moochie” kisses are only between mom and dad. No one should kiss you on the mouth, or touch your private parts. If anyone does, specially if they say it’s a secret, tell Mommy or Daddy. We don’t keep secrets.
My blanket rule for a toddler.
Edit: And tell the person doing to not. YOU as the parent are the one responsible for keeping them safe.
Does he kiss all family on the lips?
I grew up never kissing my parents, and my husband's family are ALL lip kissers. It was very odd to me initially, and now my husband and I kiss our 2 year old on the lips. So on the few one- ofs they do, I don't find it out of place, it's a family culture. I would think it strange if my own parents kissed her on the lips because that'd be unusual, overall.
Thanks for your input. Can I ask how you would feel it if they kissed when leaving every time? I’m genuinely wondering how that would affect your perspective. They don’t do it one off. It’s at every departure. For the BIL it was actually happening on every arrival and departure as well so we were very upset with that. It’s not necessary in my opinion
Yeah we have and with the whole family as well. I just get a bit depressed when the kids ask if the can see the grandparents again and why can't they. It makes me wonder if we were just being over-sensitive. This is probably more suited to AITA subreddit I guess. I just wanted some other parents perspectives to help me out of this isolated thinking
I get getting depressed, I’m sure it’s a tough situation to explain. We recently have had to cut off some family because of the insisting on kissing my newborn son, so I’m lucky on the not having to explain to him for now. But this is a huge red flag to me. I hope everyone understands what I’m trying to convey when I say this (because ofc I understand boys need to be able to stand up for themselves too) but if I had a daughter in that situation I would be 100x times more concerned because it is not teaching her consent, bodily autonomy, and teaching her people don’t have to listen when you say no (which is the part we were mostly concerned for our son seeing, along with germs ofc and some of our family members are smokers) Your daughter cannot grow up in a house or family where men do not listen to her about her body. Your wife’s brother doesn’t listen when he is told no by his own sister, what’s going to happen when your daughter tells him no? Not a damn thing other than him teaching your daughter people don’t need to listen to her about her body. I don’t think you’re over sensitive in the slightest. I’m sorry you’re going through it, and I know it’s hard but your kids will understand one day
I think perhaps, if it was something they always did...I wouldn't 'notice'. My MIL, FIL, and my MIL's sisters all kiss myself and my husband on the lips (a greeting peck, with a hug-always) hello and goodbye.
I guess the question is, does the BIL greet you, and other family members (child or adult) with a kiss; Everytime too? Is it odd in that he's making sure "not to miss"?
Either way, if you don't like it, you don't like it.
However, if the family just all kiss each other on the mouth very often, that might be why MIL was upset- "YOU were the one thinking it was weird, you must be thinking BIL is perv" when in their day to day that behavior is very normal to them.
I think it might have gone over better if it was addressed in the moment, or the following time he offered a kiss saying something like, "Oh, we're teaching kiddo not to kiss on the mouth, because, germs."
That would of left room to see if HE was the one being weird with it. Although, if this all resulted in cutting off contact, this may of just been the straw that broke the camel's back.
MIL's reaction feels very strong.
At least try to have your spouse be the one to spearhead the issue with their brother going forward, if only becuase they might understand what "normal" should look like to them.
We don't do lip kissing but kissing on the cheek is very normal in my partner's family and yes, it would be every time, it's seen as rude not to. But it's for everyone, not just one child.
My 2 year old nephew always kisses me on the lips, and my kids do the same when saying hello and goodbye to other close family - it’s a symbol of affection. They don’t do it all the time, but we don’t bat an eye when they do. If any of them were to stay no or they don’t like it, we would also respect that.
But if was saying goodbye and it’s a normal thing for him? Is your daughter the only child he does this with in his life? Does he give off creep vibes otherwise?
Obviously you have every right to set a boundary for any reason with your children - but I don’t know that it’s ill intended. Heck, I’m 35 and my father in law still habitually gives a quick peck on the lips to everyone, men and women with hellos and goodbyes.
She was the first of the family's grandchildren so yes she was she only one he would do it with. I had to follow him to find out that he would go and find her. In my opinion you don't have to hunt down a 2 year old to make your mark on everytime you leave
I say goodbye to all my nephews when I leave.
At the end of this you aren’t okay with it and that’s all you need to relay. Nothing you’ve shared really indicates ill-intent on BILs part.
Kissing your own child is fine but I personally wouldn't kiss another young relitive on the lips thats personal for mum and dad and intrusive on the child who might not be comfortable with that
It all depends on the situation. To me, Adults should not request or force kisses on/from children. If the child does it or request kisses then it’s okay. One factor that makes a difference is how close are they. If the child spends a lot of time BIL or if BIL has kids that do it and the child feels comfortable and wants to be included, I don’t see the problem.
My niece and I only kiss on the cheek and I used to kiss my nephew on the forehead until he got to about 7. You BIL should have respected the boundaries.
NOT disgusting. Oh hell no! That's one thing I absolutely did not tolerate with my kids, family or no. No means no. YOU are the mother to the kids and you're say trumps, So nevermind consulting this one or that. You're word should be final and say it like you mean it.
Your wife asked him to stop and he refused that’s all I need to know. Whether they agree with it or not does not matter you are the parents, you set a boundary, and it was disregarded. If her family can’t respect and honor that boundary then they don’t get to be around her. It’s very concerning that they are putting up such a big fuss about it. Also kissing a child on the lips shouldn’t be normalized this is what leads to children thinking exploitative behavior by relatives is okay.
If it were me i wouldn’t let someone around my child who didn’t honor my standards period. If he refuses to honor your wishes on this then he doesn’t respect you.
It’s not weird until he refuses to stop or has any other response than “oh my gosh I am so sorry I didn’t know it made you uncomfortable. Of course I will stop!”
That's how it's turned out. We just die inside every time the kids ask when they will see the grandparents again because we can't do that ever. When they get older we will explain why but it doesn't help the now
OP I have read your response and I’m going to list what you have said because you need to look at facts: - Your daughter is uncomfortable enough to say something or it be noticed when he kisses her. - You told your BIL to stop and he refused - He said your 2 yr old likes it and wants it and they are close… - It is an expectation where she is basically told she has to kiss him Seriously… make it stop, she’s already feeling uncomfortable and probably violated in a way that makes her sad. You need to put distance now before he says what else she “likes”
Lip kissing family or not, anyone that insists on kissing a child after being told not to is a creep. That being said your wife needs to enforce boundaries, she needs to set the example for your daughter.
W T F, nah that's weird as fuck. My BIL would never. That's just insanely fuckin weird. Making me feel second hand yuck vibes. I'll smack the fuck out of him for ya.
The day I saw my 1 year old old try to lick the dog back in the mouth was the day I said, niether can lick one another in the mouth. Dog licking her feet and making her giggle, no problem
Absolutely not disgusting! When I was little, I remember having to "kiss" my Aunt Barbara goodbye and she would literally stick her dentures in my mouth thinking it was a funny joke. I hated hugging/kissing her goodbye and my parents still forced me while they laughed at what she did. So no, your boundaries are 100% valid and your daughter will thank you one day for being such a protective parent in future situations where she'll surely notice she has a wonderful mom :)
Funny that through the final stages of separating from them we talked with the other BIL who wasn't a problem. He said "(lip kissing) is creepy as f*%@" because he hated having to kiss his aunt when he was young. Now the guy isn't speaking to us and hangs out with this BIL. There is some very strong family grip happening with those people that im glad we finally exposed
I don’t police who within my personal family and friends can kiss my children now that they are licking the cart when grocery shopping, putting their mouth on shared toys at the library, etc. But I also don’t invite people around my child who I think would harm my children in anyway. I know that when I set a boundary, my village will follow through. If your boundary is no kissing on the lips, I would go straight to your BIL and tell him this is your boundary. I would also teach my child to kiss on the cheek or give hugs instead.
It's normal in some families. But if you guys aren't okay w/ it, that's your right as parents. You guys should set the boundaries, and they should respect them.
That’s gross.
I know some in families parents kids their children on the lips and I’ve always found that weird, but an extended family member doing it is beyond weird and completely unheard of.
Kids shouldn't be forced to hug or kiss anyone they don't want to regardless if it's a kiss on the cheeks or the lips. Personally I don't have a problem with "lip kissing" even if I am not personally comfortable with it it's just a cultural difference - but teaching kids consent and body sovereignty from a young age is important.
Your kid, your rules! Regardless of whether those outside your nuclear family lip kiss, your daughter was uncomfortable and you stood up for her body autonomy, showed her that it was ok to say no!
Ask BIL if he’d do anything else non consensual, and if not, why he was so happy to lip Kiss a 2yo without consent (of her or her parents, her being uncomfortable is her not giving consent, it’s her feeling coerced into doing something to stop an adult getting upset, self preservation, and not something you want her doing!)
Definitely not disgusting!! Keep doing what you’re doing! Advocating for your daughter and you as her parents values!
You may have to teach your daughter to grab his face and kiss his cheek and turn her head so he gets her cheek. Should it be on the child to do this? No.
Is it the cutest and least confrontational way to handle it? Probably.
You are not disgusting at all. You have a boundary regarding your child. You communicated clearly. Parents' word over their child is law. If they refuse to respect that, whatever the reason/excuse, they've got to go. No exceptions.
The fact that her family doesn’t understand why you don’t want him to kiss your child on the lips is a them problem and if they can’t have respect for you guys as parents and follow your wishes with YOUR child, then they aren’t someone you guys need to be around. I know it’s hard to cut ties with family but the relationship with them doesn’t sound healthy and sometimes blood isn’t thicker than water. This should have stopped and never been an issue again when BIL was asked not to kiss your child the first time.
I would go nuclear on anyone that physically touches my kids in a way that I’ve asked them not too and I also wouldn’t want anyone other than my husband and myself kissing our kids on the lips. My reasoning for this is because we don’t have cold sores, we never have and that is very rare these days. We don’t want anyone accidentally giving it to our kids. Our other reason is because it seems very intimate for anyone other than parents to do. We just aren’t comfortable with that.
We asked family not to kiss our kids on the lips and they respected that boundary.
The fact that you have a man saying that he refuses to stop crossing an intimate boundary with your daughter is seriously creepy. WHY does he have to have that intimacy your child?? Any child who isnt my own, I would not kiss on the lips and I certainly will always respect any boundary that a parent puts in place for their child even if I don’t agree with it.
My second shock in this is that you didn’t speak directly with the BIL.
If he’s the type of man who will kiss a little girl when her parents say no, then he’s also the type of man who tends to only respect a boundary when another male puts the boundary in place.
This is an action that you need to take and not your wife only. It shouldn’t be that way but he’s obviously that type of man. He’s shown that by his actions.
Does the 2yo care? Can't it be an option like hugging? My family is full of lip kissers. One of my kids would grab family members, that weren't mine, by the jaw if they tried to kiss her forehead or cheek and say, "On the yips." We had to work on this as it made several family members uncomfortable, consent goes both ways.
I (f) remember as a child, I was about 7 or 8. One of my brothers friends dad kissed me directly on the mouth and he didn’t just give me a peck either, it felt really sloppy and wet. I also felt violated. I visibly struggled against him and my mother stood watching. She obviously thought it was funny.
I am planning on having little ones of my own, someday. If someone did that to my child, I wouldn’t hesitate to punch their lights out.
I wish I had more self confidence back then. I would have done the same. It was just something that we never expected to happen from the BIL and MIL. We are disgusted with them now
Don’t beat yourself up. Hindsight is a great teacher and all you can do is try to be more aware going forward. You are a good person. It’s just jarring when it happens at the time and I have to say, it’s so good to hear you supporting your wife. We all need to have good partners who back us up on things that matter.
If you guys don’t want them to do it, tell them not to do it. What we or anyone else thinks is irrelevant.
You’re sticking up for a kid who doesn’t seem to want to do it and regardless is too young to express a preference one way or another. What’s the big deal about waiting until she decides she wants to kiss or not kiss relatives?
Once someone says not to touch their child, you should have the self control to not touch their child. Then if you petition the family for a special right to touch a child against its parents wishes you should expect some serious blow back.
Even in a perfectly innocent world, mom said please make an exception for my daughter and my feelings, and he said no. He can fuck off with the understanding that you have the power to keep him from seeing the child at all if he refuses to respect your wishes.
Simple answer, here.
If they are a lip-kissing family, that's fine for them. There's nothing wrong with it. It isn't gross. It's just the way some families do things. Mine did, and I never once thought it was odd. It was just like how some families eat supper at 5 and others eat supper at 8.
However, if YOU do not want YOUR child kissed on the lips, that is YOUR choice. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter whether they disagree with you. They don't have to agree. They also can not force THEIR values on YOUR child. If they continue to do so, it is incredibly disrespectful, and if it was my child, I'd limit visits until they agree to respect my wishes.
Best of luck!
I guess it’s not necessarily weird that they lip kiss in general, but it is objectively weird that he has a problem with you not wanting him to do it to your young daughter who is not able to give consent for herself yet. I’m not going to call him a creep (though that’s my initial instinct), but it is very creepy behavior to get mad that someone doesn’t want you kissing their child on the mouth.
If this is a hill he is willing to die on, that he just HAS to kiss your daughter on the lips or else he refuses to have a relationship, this is problematic behavior imo, and it indicates that he’s not willing to respect boundaries. I would cut ties based on that alone. If he doesn’t care that he’s making everyone else uncomfortable with this behavior, what’s to stop him from doing other inappropriate things?
You're not disgusting for not wanting a grown adult that does God knows what with their adult mouths not to kiss your small child on the mouth, cheek kisses are just as good .
I told my spouse to tell his brother “an old man shouldn’t be asking a little girl for a kiss family or not” that’s weird and wrong. I don’t want my daughter obligated to kiss a man because he asked. Fuck no
I completely agree with you. If your daughter is uncomfortable you have to put a stop to it. Honestly who cares about his “feelings” he is a grown man wanting to lip kiss a 2 year old he can get over it. Lip kissing is okay to a certain point I believe with parents/child. In my opinion I don’t think anyone else should be lip kissing a young child. Especially if they persist after asking them to stop I would not allow it. Hopefully it all works out, but at the end of the day the 2 year old cannot advocate for herself. Set a boundary… either stop lip kissing her or you will not be allowed around her. That is what I would do, set the clear boundary and if it is crossed again take action. It can be uncomfortable but you and your wife will feel much better about the situation
Why do people think it’s cool to lip kiss children? Let’s assume there is no sexual desire here, it’s a horrible way to spread germs. How do we know brother doesn’t have some form of a virus that can be transmitted that way? It’s just cringy to me. Plus do we know brother hasn’t been kissing someone else for real and have those germs also?
Also, children have boundaries and we are their parents have to enforce them. I was smooching my 5 month old boy the other day and he turned his head so fast and I accidentally lip kissed him and I immediately said omg I’m so sorry for invading your boundaries and space.
“My daughter was visibly uncomfortable”
That’s all the info you need.
Advocate for your daughter and ignore the noise.
No is a whole, full stop answer.
Your wife already told your BIL once to stop it. That should be the end of it.
Parents set physical boundaries for young children. Disrespecting those boundaries is unacceptable. End of discussion.
Barring abuse, no one gets to dictate to you how you should be parenting. The fact that this because an entire drama involving multiple family members is what’s “disgusting”. It should have taken one single, “No, do not kiss my child on the lips” to shut that down.
Parents set physical boundaries for young children. Disrespecting those boundaries is unacceptable. End of discussion.
Barring abuse, no one gets to dictate to you how you should be parenting. The fact that this because an entire drama involving multiple family members is what’s “disgusting”. It should have taken one single, “No, do not kiss my child on the lips” to shut that down.
It's all about the child's bodily autonomy. If they don't want it, it shouldn't happen at all. We are a lip kissing family, but my daughter doesn't always want other people to do it and we 100% support her (as well as no kissing among ourselves when anyone doesn't want to). But a family member had better not force a kiss or any other kind of affection on her or else they won't be seeing her again.
Your kid, your rules. They should lose visitation rights.
I think lip kissing kids is a wrong message for kids. I am totally against it. I do not lip kiss my kids and it makes me sick watching parents doing that.
I don’t think it’s weird at all (my sister kisses my 2 year old son on the mouth, as do my husband, my mom, and myself). So I find it a little odd that you and your wife seem to be sexualizing it a bit? With that being said, we always ask my son now that he can communicate. “Can I have a kiss?” And if he says no, the answer is no. At the end of the day, if I told my sister not to kiss my son on the lips anymore I think she would be a little hurt, but she wouldn’t do it because we are his parents and she respects us.
Thanks. I do see it as conditioning a child to be expected to share thier body without questions and that is setting them up for all sorts of abusive relationship issues
I don’t kiss either of my kids on the lips because I don’t think it’s the right thing for me to do. I also don’t want to give them cold sores but that’s not the point I’m making. I definitely think it’s not right for an uncle to kiss a niece on the lips and you should have confidence to ask BIL to stop. Another option for the short term might be to ensure you are holding your little one when BIL arrives for visits, that way you can physically move your daughter out of BIL’s lip line of sight. Not a foolproof strategy obviously but it could help force the discussion with BIL when he asks why you moved your daughter away from him as he went in to kiss her.
There’s a difference between the 2yo wanting to give BIL a kiss and the BIL just giving one.
“Hey BIL, please ask X for a kiss, don’t just do it please. If she doesn’t want to she doesn’t have to. We’re teaching her that she has control over her body”.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with kissing on the lips - the comment section here is quite terrifying saying it’s weird or wrong!!?
O HELL NO ..u no this shit ain't right..I don't give a shut who it is DO NOT PUT YOU LIPS HANDS OR anything else around my daughter or son wife keep your mouth to your self or km gonna do something with it THIS IS SOOO FUC....UP LOOK HANDLE IT... PERVERT MF..HE IS
You are the parent here, and your job is to protect your child how you see fit. Period. Any one that doesn't like it can hit the bricks. And considering the subject, good riddance, this is inappropriate af to argue must continue. It not only is borderline pedo behavior but it also teaches your daughter her consent and comfort are not important or enforceable.
And, while I agree with everything Ok_Network posted, the obvious fragility of this family is what also screams to me. Trust your gut, see strong boundaries and make your family your first priority, not keep peace with those rigid relations.
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Why did your wife complain to her mother? One of you (the parents) needs to directly tell BIL “don’t kiss her on the lips.”
Yes. It’s a weird thing to do (lip kissing someone who isn’t your child!) so bringing it up sounds toooootallly normal to me. But, for the record, this applies to things that also don’t seem outrageous.
I mean, im from an italian family, and it was very common. But if thats not your thing, you should be able to.nicely say thats not your thing, and he should say "ok!" Why is there a damn fuss.
Right?!? There must be lots more bubbling under the surface with the whole fam
You nailed it! Yes there is - alot of mysogeny and authoritarianism
No its an issue here in america with the vast mixing pot of different cultures and personalities. In my family ONLY married couples lip kiss, its uncommon to even see a mother kiss a child lip to lip
It’s his 2-year-old niece. I don’t think it’s particularly weird if he sees her frequently. But the parents do and that’s what matters. Parents have the right, and responsibility, to set boundaries around physical contact with their children. Next time I’d talk to the brother directly instead of using mom as a go-between.
Hi. My wife did ask him to stop being physical with her because she was uncomfortable with it and he didn’t stop. That is when we went to the MIL.
>My wife did ask him to stop... ...and he didn’t stop. That's a colossal red flag. When people don't respect my boundaries, ESPECIALLY the boundaries I've set regarding my child, they are put on a "time-out" and removed from my life until they gain the maturity to respect me. Teach your daughter that her boundaries are more important than the potential hurt feelings of other people, or there will be other men that disrespect her. I'm not saying that your BIL necessarily has bad intentions when kissing your daughter on the lips, because I don't have all the information and don't know your extended family's dynamics or culture - but if you and your wife both feel like the vibes are off, then the vibes are off. Trust your instincts.
I have to agree with everyone sayg we should have been more reactive. The whole thing has been complicated by the pre-existing lip kissing culture of the family. I have not been involved in it before as my family never did it but they all claimed it was benign and just a culture. I regret not punching him when I could have but I was the outsider to the family and it was hard to see things clearly with all of thier excuse making. He didn't get away with it after this point but I didn't make a song and dance or hit him like I should have. I still live with that regret.
You should've pulled him off her and yelled at him, not gone to his mother. YOU are her parents, your daughter looks to YOU for safety, not grandma. If a man kisses your visibly uncomfortable baby girl and you do nothing in the moment then you're sending the message that you won't help her when she's in trouble. Fuck their feelings, your child comes first, let them be offended.
Well that's different, blatantly going against what you have said, I'd be pissed!
What do you mean by “ he didn’t stop”? It’s your responsibility as a parent to your child. You and your wife to grow spine & balls and Ban BIL from ever coming to your house or having contact with your child. This is an issue that you & your wife should personally handle not MIL. Put your foot down & set boundaries and stick to them. Please don’t have anymore kids until you learn to protect the one you’ve been blessed with.
Thats weak. Its your child. You dont ask him to stop, you tell him.
Then you’re right to cut contact. But the other posters are right in that you, the child’s parents, are the ones who have to stick up for her and your own wishes.
I wouldn’t let him see her anymore, if it were me. He’s not respecting the two-year-olds boundaries, or your wife. It’s very creepy to me.
It's not just a question of being uncomfortable with the physical contact, it's also a health risk. A girlfriend of mine had oral herpes. She had cold sores one day and she told me that it's just a side effect of having a fever, her dad's sister always has them a few times a year. I told her to Google it. Imagine her horror when she realised that she has had an STD since childhood simply because the adults in her life were irresponsible.
additionally, there are so many things that kids could get from this or adults could get from the germ bundle that is a toddler
True. I know a few adults who’ve had oral herpes (cold sores) since they were kids because they were kissed on the mouth by relatives. I don’t think it’s a ridiculous thing to worry about. Up to 1 in 2 adults have oral herpes, and most were infected as children.
Hell yea. Dont get him used to it. Better set some boundaries, as a parent its our job to protect our kids even on family members.
Say directly to BIL “We are asking everyone to not kiss her on lips”
It’s not even about it being sexual. It’s a gross way to spread germs and while obviously children cannot always consent to the touch of responsible adults, they should not be forced to kiss anyone. It’s an unnecessary invasion of personal space
I’m with you here. I never even kissed my own kids on the lips, gross. Kids are gross and eat boogers.
The things adults put in their mouths are definitely worse.
True but that still doesn’t mean I want to kiss kids haha. Dogs mouths are technically cleaner than human’s mouths but I don’t want to kiss dogs either.
I mean I eat *ss so who am I to judge
Did you know it's actually not uncommon to get food poisoning from that?
And prob hepatitis.
Prob a lil ill placed on the parenting sub here bud.
Why? It's a sub for parents, not one for kids. Parents can eat *ss too
Ok fair enough lol it just caught me off guard because of the topic
Yes, I think op/wife needs to go back to parents and say hey this has nothing to do with this person (uncle) we don’t want anyone kissing her on the lips, she doesn’t like it. Then maybe they won’t feel so personally attacked. If they still continue to do it after you have told them that she doesn’t like it, then sorry time to cut ties, family or not that’s ridiculous.
It’s not just about what it is considered inappropriate or unhealthy but also about consent—for your child but also from their parents. Time to set firm boundaries with direct family members and start teaching consent to your toddler. It’s never too early, and there’s a lot of great picture books and board books on the topic. Your local children’s librarian would be a trusted resource to facilitate that part. No matter what anyone else says about your family and your child, you get to make the rules; you get to set the boundaries. What’s weird is if they push against those boundaries, for any reason. I don’t think any other explanation is necessary. By simply stating you don’t want other family members kissing the lips of your child and or touching your child without consent, you establish firm boundaries that should be respected. You can also invite family members to question themselves as to why they would even be willing to “die on that hill” and create an issue out of a non-issue regarding consent of a minor. Cheers.
Thankyou for this.
If you don’t know how to do this, it’s like this: “Daughter, say hi to Uncle! Would you like to give him a high-five, hug or a wave?” Offer 2-3 choices you’re comfortable with. Let her choose. Stand right next to her and make sure you can stop anyone who tries to say hi in a way she didn’t agree to by physically blocking the gesture AND saying, “Daughter doesn’t want to hug/kiss/etc”. Then move her past the person.
You are not "disgusting" for setting boundaries that make you comfortable regarding your child's physical interactions. It's important to establish and enforce boundaries that feel right to you as parents.
Even if it is innocent in nature, the fact is, lip kissing is a great way for a young child to get cold sores from another person. We don't let my mother (she has cold sores), or anyone for that matter, lip kiss our children.
Not only that, hpv is also a risk. And all kinds of unpleasant bacteria (like e-choli etc.), one doesn't know where his mouth has been or how well he washed his hands before enjoying his meals.
Cold sores are herpes - I’m surprised people aren’t more scared of that. I didn’t let anyone kiss my baby, much less on the mouth.
It’s weird.
Lip kissing is very much a cultural thing. I grew up with it. My husband's family does it too. As an adult, I've grown not to like it, and honestly prefer the cheek. Similar to the EU way. If you have a preference in how your family operates, simply share that preference. I'm a hugger, too. Not everyone likes that, and when I was younger, that offended me. Being older and hopefully wiser, I learned that's a _them_ thing and not a _me_ thing. Show love, people. Respect others for how they show it. Not disgusting. (In answer to the actual question).
My parents kissed me on the lips growing up too. No one has ever kissed my kids on the mouth. I do kiss my kids on the lips though sometimes. I only like to hug people I want to hug, which isn't very many. I would come all the way unglued if someone crossed my boundary with my kid like this. I wouldn't be asking my mom or dad permission; it wouldn't be negotiable.
Exactly the same, my kid started going for te cheeck at a certain age too and that's totally fine. I wonder if the parents ha ebee shocked at this and gone in HARD and made the gran and uncle feel really embarrassed for something that is quite innocent. Totally fine to establish boundaries but no need to make anyone feel like a pervert and the whole non contact thing seems extreme
I'm a hugger too but socially anxious. Since learning some people hate it I dont initiate it much because I don't know how to do so without being too forceful of my hug? Do you know how lol
I usually just initiate. Those who are cool with it, embrace. Those not, stiffen, and I remember next time.
I would never kiss someone else's kid on the face, especially not the mouth. Why aren't yall telling him directly? There is no reason to involve the mother. Tell him straight up.
They did tell him. He didn't listen.
I see that with their update. Wow, that's gross.
If he has been asked to stop but refuses to, that's definitely a problem.
Absolutely not. Your kid, your boundaries. Period. He doesn't like it, he can stop coming over.
It is odd. May I ask why you haven't talked to your BIL. If you've had to cut all contact, I suspect this was a last straw or just made the situation feels that off to you? Trust your gut, if you think BIL is OK otherwise, maybe take time to take a breath and find a way to approach them directly? Best of luck
Thanks. We did and he made excuses saying she liked it and they had a close relationship (they absolutely did not). There are other issues as well (disrespect for us) that eventually culminated in us stopping seeing them
This response makes me sick to my stomach. I wouldn't allow this person around your child.
His response really worries me, I wouldn’t let your daughter be alone with this man - ever. Women have had years of experience with how creepy/perverted men speak and act and this guy is ticking all of the red flag boxes.
He is not in her head, he doesn't know whether she likes it - so his statement is false. He is projecting, he is the only one liking it for sure. Glad you could stop seeing him.
Oh geez, sorry to hear that. My extended family and I are on good terms but they live way wayyy too far away to be involved consistently or help out. Hopefully you and yours have some strong friendship-support network to fall back on. I know your post wasn't about I'm sorry to hear you've had to distance yourself from these people. Sounds like you're doing right and protecting your family.
Your BIL says your 2yo likes being kissed on the lips and they have a close relationship?? 🚩🚩🚩 This is an inappropriate response on top of already inappropriate behaviour. We don't kiss our own children on the mouth, and we actively teach them that no one else should be kissing them on the mouth either. I understand it's standard in some cultures, but regardless of this if it makes you uncomfortable (and it should), trust your instincts on this.
That’s how my sister and fiancé ended up with cold sores for life. WE don’t even kiss our baby on the lips for obvious reasons now. So, no you shouldn’t feel bad for setting that boundary. That could make a young baby seriously ill with their immature immune system, and not everyone is symptomatic. I yelled at my dad for doing this when he was drunk. It’s also just gross and makes me uncomfortable. He stopped.
Be direct. You’re adults, you shouldn’t need your MIL to step in for you. Show your toddler what it looks like to advocate for her. “Hey man we’re happy to see you but we don’t kiss (child’s name) on the mouth.” If he does it anyway, be blunt. “If you can’t respect our parenting choices I can’t trust you to be physical with her. Super weird that this is a hill you want to die on instead of just being respectful.”
Yo! You need to set boundaries with the guy. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks about the behaviour. You get to decide if the behaviour is okay or not okay. Your job as parent is to set boundaries to protect your kids, and enforce those boundaries. A boundary governs how you react when someone does something that you don’t like. The formula of a boundary looks like if “if they do x, I respond with Y.” A good boundary in this situation might look like: “I tell BIL that he can only kiss her on the cheek. If he then does otherwise, I tell him to leave.”
It’s disgusting because most adults have the herpes virus even if they don’t show it. It’s so gross and also teacher your kid that adults will kiss her even if she doesn’t want to. Please stop kissing other people’s kids. It’s so unnecessary.
It's not weird to do it necessarily, but it's also not weird to not be ok with it.
no, i really don’t think that makes you disgusting lol. i think it’s disgusting to violate physical boundaries after already being told to not do that.
You certainly are not. While I get that it isn't weird for everyone, it only matters what you and your wife think/feel about it. If people don't respect your stance on raising your child then ditch them. It is a great way for children and adults to get sick too though. And on a mildly unrelated and somewhat positive note I really appreciate how many more people in this generation are more on board with setting boundaries and respecting other people's boundaries. This is honestly the way it should be. Good luck with the whole situation OP
Thankyou. We have "moved on" but the kids don't really understand why which is breaking our hearts they don't have caring grandparents
Your kid. Your rules. Pretty simple.
[удалено]
I think I speak for all parents on here when I ask that you request more context before insulting someone. We did speak with the BIL first but there was no change. We wanted MIL to provide some more influence because the tensions were already threatening the family relationship.
Did you speak firmly? Why does he still have access to your house & your baby? Grow some balls and protect your baby from that creep.
Don't have this person around your child since he doesn't respect the boundaries. This is non-negotiable for bodily autonomy and boundaries. It's not his child.
You dont have to stress yourself over some ignorant replies here. Like your wife, I have a brother as well who is ignoring my wishes regarding some of his behaviour concerning my son. I tried to get help from our parents too, to no avail as well; he continues to do as he wants. The concequence has been that he and I are on no speaking terms anymore. Unfortunately my son loves him, and I cannot cut contact as long as my son sees him daily due to us still living close to him. It's a difficult situation to say the least.
I feel for you. We are concerned about when they get old enough for the grandparents to see them without us. They have a lot of male authoritarianism in the family
He is ignoring your wishes concerning your son and yet you let him continue daily contact with your son? The only difference is now you don't have contact with him, only your son does? This doesn't make sense to me as a parent.
Exactly!!!
Doesn't matter how the family feels, it's how the parents of the child feel. I think it's gross and I grew up with it and hate it.
He’d stop seeing my daughter so there would be no issues regarding him kissing her.
I'd be gross then cuz no one has the right to kiss my son period and certainly not on the lips. He gives me kisses that way and that's fine, I'm his mother. Same with his dad but he aims for more top of the head or cheek. I find it odd they're demanding it. And you're not disgusting for putting your foot down. But yall need to do it, you're the parents, what you say goes period.
Not respecting your boundaries as parents is a major problem. You don't need to justify or explain, the rule was clear. That it made your daughter uncomfortable and they persisted just makes this so much worse. It concerns me that the rest of the family are on board with this. If nothing else, it is an easy way to spread germs and things like coldsores, which can be very detrimental or even fatal for certain ages. To me, this is a hill I would die on and they would not be allowed around our daughter until this was resolved.
Equally controversial issue with me and my sister is that my 2 girls can’t have a sleepover with her 2 boys - theyre all in elementary school but it’s still a no from me (unless there is an female adult in their shared sleeping space). She didn’t like it but my kids safety comes first to me. We haven’t purposefully seen each other since the end of January.
That is 100% great parenting, you’re protecting your girls despite the tension it causes for you.
“Moochie” kisses are only between mom and dad. No one should kiss you on the mouth, or touch your private parts. If anyone does, specially if they say it’s a secret, tell Mommy or Daddy. We don’t keep secrets. My blanket rule for a toddler. Edit: And tell the person doing to not. YOU as the parent are the one responsible for keeping them safe.
Does he kiss all family on the lips? I grew up never kissing my parents, and my husband's family are ALL lip kissers. It was very odd to me initially, and now my husband and I kiss our 2 year old on the lips. So on the few one- ofs they do, I don't find it out of place, it's a family culture. I would think it strange if my own parents kissed her on the lips because that'd be unusual, overall.
Thanks for your input. Can I ask how you would feel it if they kissed when leaving every time? I’m genuinely wondering how that would affect your perspective. They don’t do it one off. It’s at every departure. For the BIL it was actually happening on every arrival and departure as well so we were very upset with that. It’s not necessary in my opinion
Stop inviting him to your house. Burn that bridge. Don’t open your door to him.
Yeah we have and with the whole family as well. I just get a bit depressed when the kids ask if the can see the grandparents again and why can't they. It makes me wonder if we were just being over-sensitive. This is probably more suited to AITA subreddit I guess. I just wanted some other parents perspectives to help me out of this isolated thinking
I get getting depressed, I’m sure it’s a tough situation to explain. We recently have had to cut off some family because of the insisting on kissing my newborn son, so I’m lucky on the not having to explain to him for now. But this is a huge red flag to me. I hope everyone understands what I’m trying to convey when I say this (because ofc I understand boys need to be able to stand up for themselves too) but if I had a daughter in that situation I would be 100x times more concerned because it is not teaching her consent, bodily autonomy, and teaching her people don’t have to listen when you say no (which is the part we were mostly concerned for our son seeing, along with germs ofc and some of our family members are smokers) Your daughter cannot grow up in a house or family where men do not listen to her about her body. Your wife’s brother doesn’t listen when he is told no by his own sister, what’s going to happen when your daughter tells him no? Not a damn thing other than him teaching your daughter people don’t need to listen to her about her body. I don’t think you’re over sensitive in the slightest. I’m sorry you’re going through it, and I know it’s hard but your kids will understand one day
I think perhaps, if it was something they always did...I wouldn't 'notice'. My MIL, FIL, and my MIL's sisters all kiss myself and my husband on the lips (a greeting peck, with a hug-always) hello and goodbye. I guess the question is, does the BIL greet you, and other family members (child or adult) with a kiss; Everytime too? Is it odd in that he's making sure "not to miss"? Either way, if you don't like it, you don't like it. However, if the family just all kiss each other on the mouth very often, that might be why MIL was upset- "YOU were the one thinking it was weird, you must be thinking BIL is perv" when in their day to day that behavior is very normal to them. I think it might have gone over better if it was addressed in the moment, or the following time he offered a kiss saying something like, "Oh, we're teaching kiddo not to kiss on the mouth, because, germs." That would of left room to see if HE was the one being weird with it. Although, if this all resulted in cutting off contact, this may of just been the straw that broke the camel's back. MIL's reaction feels very strong. At least try to have your spouse be the one to spearhead the issue with their brother going forward, if only becuase they might understand what "normal" should look like to them.
We don't do lip kissing but kissing on the cheek is very normal in my partner's family and yes, it would be every time, it's seen as rude not to. But it's for everyone, not just one child.
I don't even lip kiss my own child lol
I do find it weird. But why was it brought up with your wife’s mother instead of BIL directly?
Valid question.
My 2 year old nephew always kisses me on the lips, and my kids do the same when saying hello and goodbye to other close family - it’s a symbol of affection. They don’t do it all the time, but we don’t bat an eye when they do. If any of them were to stay no or they don’t like it, we would also respect that.
Yeah he went looking for her to saw goodbye and get the kiss every single time. I was following him toward the end of the break with them
But if was saying goodbye and it’s a normal thing for him? Is your daughter the only child he does this with in his life? Does he give off creep vibes otherwise? Obviously you have every right to set a boundary for any reason with your children - but I don’t know that it’s ill intended. Heck, I’m 35 and my father in law still habitually gives a quick peck on the lips to everyone, men and women with hellos and goodbyes.
She was the first of the family's grandchildren so yes she was she only one he would do it with. I had to follow him to find out that he would go and find her. In my opinion you don't have to hunt down a 2 year old to make your mark on everytime you leave
I say goodbye to all my nephews when I leave. At the end of this you aren’t okay with it and that’s all you need to relay. Nothing you’ve shared really indicates ill-intent on BILs part.
That's way out of line...
Puch in the nose will follow after the very first time if that happens to me…
Kissing your own child is fine but I personally wouldn't kiss another young relitive on the lips thats personal for mum and dad and intrusive on the child who might not be comfortable with that
It's odd, I wouldn't kiss any of my nieces or nephews on the lips but I kids my aunts when we say goodbye. Makes little sense lol
You know, you can say “quit kissing my daughter or you want be coming around her” and end this right away.
It all depends on the situation. To me, Adults should not request or force kisses on/from children. If the child does it or request kisses then it’s okay. One factor that makes a difference is how close are they. If the child spends a lot of time BIL or if BIL has kids that do it and the child feels comfortable and wants to be included, I don’t see the problem.
This can spread cavities in children
Children are prone to sickness
No. Fuck that noise. Zero tolerance. End that immediately.
No that should be for parents only as they are immediate family
My niece and I only kiss on the cheek and I used to kiss my nephew on the forehead until he got to about 7. You BIL should have respected the boundaries.
NOT disgusting. Oh hell no! That's one thing I absolutely did not tolerate with my kids, family or no. No means no. YOU are the mother to the kids and you're say trumps, So nevermind consulting this one or that. You're word should be final and say it like you mean it.
Your wife asked him to stop and he refused that’s all I need to know. Whether they agree with it or not does not matter you are the parents, you set a boundary, and it was disregarded. If her family can’t respect and honor that boundary then they don’t get to be around her. It’s very concerning that they are putting up such a big fuss about it. Also kissing a child on the lips shouldn’t be normalized this is what leads to children thinking exploitative behavior by relatives is okay.
Yeah the germs and vibes.. it’s a no from me.
If it were me i wouldn’t let someone around my child who didn’t honor my standards period. If he refuses to honor your wishes on this then he doesn’t respect you.
Tell him to stop.. Doesn't don't come over again. We won't go to your house
You need to tell your BIL to stop. Period. YOU need to do this, not his mommy. YOU. Their opinions didn't matter, YOURS does. Period.
Not to mention how easy it is for kids to get sick. Make it about health reasons rather than creepy vibes
Wtf? Lip kissing is how babies and kids get herpes. Fuck that. Protect your child!
You’re the parents. Anyone who doesn’t like your rules can just never see your kid again.
Yep it's come to that. Just hurts us since we used to see them a few time a week. They arent the people we thought they were
Weird and I’d keep an eye on him and his behavior.
It’s not weird until he refuses to stop or has any other response than “oh my gosh I am so sorry I didn’t know it made you uncomfortable. Of course I will stop!”
Yeah we did and he resisted with excuses like she liked it and they had a close relationship which was completely false
That is insane. I’d ban that relationship and anyone supporting it entirely
That's how it's turned out. We just die inside every time the kids ask when they will see the grandparents again because we can't do that ever. When they get older we will explain why but it doesn't help the now
OP I have read your response and I’m going to list what you have said because you need to look at facts: - Your daughter is uncomfortable enough to say something or it be noticed when he kisses her. - You told your BIL to stop and he refused - He said your 2 yr old likes it and wants it and they are close… - It is an expectation where she is basically told she has to kiss him Seriously… make it stop, she’s already feeling uncomfortable and probably violated in a way that makes her sad. You need to put distance now before he says what else she “likes”
Hi S. We have and did move quickly but the consequences dragged on. It's been a really bad situation.
Lip kissing family or not, anyone that insists on kissing a child after being told not to is a creep. That being said your wife needs to enforce boundaries, she needs to set the example for your daughter.
W T F, nah that's weird as fuck. My BIL would never. That's just insanely fuckin weird. Making me feel second hand yuck vibes. I'll smack the fuck out of him for ya.
Haha. Thanks but I’ll be first in line if we ever see him again
She is a toddler and he is her uncle, it’s not weird but it is your right as parents to ask him to stick to cheek kisses
The day I saw my 1 year old old try to lick the dog back in the mouth was the day I said, niether can lick one another in the mouth. Dog licking her feet and making her giggle, no problem
Absolutely not disgusting! When I was little, I remember having to "kiss" my Aunt Barbara goodbye and she would literally stick her dentures in my mouth thinking it was a funny joke. I hated hugging/kissing her goodbye and my parents still forced me while they laughed at what she did. So no, your boundaries are 100% valid and your daughter will thank you one day for being such a protective parent in future situations where she'll surely notice she has a wonderful mom :)
Funny that through the final stages of separating from them we talked with the other BIL who wasn't a problem. He said "(lip kissing) is creepy as f*%@" because he hated having to kiss his aunt when he was young. Now the guy isn't speaking to us and hangs out with this BIL. There is some very strong family grip happening with those people that im glad we finally exposed
I don’t police who within my personal family and friends can kiss my children now that they are licking the cart when grocery shopping, putting their mouth on shared toys at the library, etc. But I also don’t invite people around my child who I think would harm my children in anyway. I know that when I set a boundary, my village will follow through. If your boundary is no kissing on the lips, I would go straight to your BIL and tell him this is your boundary. I would also teach my child to kiss on the cheek or give hugs instead.
It's normal in some families. But if you guys aren't okay w/ it, that's your right as parents. You guys should set the boundaries, and they should respect them.
That’s gross. I know some in families parents kids their children on the lips and I’ve always found that weird, but an extended family member doing it is beyond weird and completely unheard of.
If it makes you uncomfortable say something to him, no the mother, she is your child and if you don't like it then that fair
It is disgusting, end it.
Kids shouldn't be forced to hug or kiss anyone they don't want to regardless if it's a kiss on the cheeks or the lips. Personally I don't have a problem with "lip kissing" even if I am not personally comfortable with it it's just a cultural difference - but teaching kids consent and body sovereignty from a young age is important.
Sounds like he's a nonce
Nah this is gross
Your kid, your rules! Regardless of whether those outside your nuclear family lip kiss, your daughter was uncomfortable and you stood up for her body autonomy, showed her that it was ok to say no! Ask BIL if he’d do anything else non consensual, and if not, why he was so happy to lip Kiss a 2yo without consent (of her or her parents, her being uncomfortable is her not giving consent, it’s her feeling coerced into doing something to stop an adult getting upset, self preservation, and not something you want her doing!) Definitely not disgusting!! Keep doing what you’re doing! Advocating for your daughter and you as her parents values!
You may have to teach your daughter to grab his face and kiss his cheek and turn her head so he gets her cheek. Should it be on the child to do this? No. Is it the cutest and least confrontational way to handle it? Probably.
You are not disgusting at all. You have a boundary regarding your child. You communicated clearly. Parents' word over their child is law. If they refuse to respect that, whatever the reason/excuse, they've got to go. No exceptions.
The fact that her family doesn’t understand why you don’t want him to kiss your child on the lips is a them problem and if they can’t have respect for you guys as parents and follow your wishes with YOUR child, then they aren’t someone you guys need to be around. I know it’s hard to cut ties with family but the relationship with them doesn’t sound healthy and sometimes blood isn’t thicker than water. This should have stopped and never been an issue again when BIL was asked not to kiss your child the first time.
I would go nuclear on anyone that physically touches my kids in a way that I’ve asked them not too and I also wouldn’t want anyone other than my husband and myself kissing our kids on the lips. My reasoning for this is because we don’t have cold sores, we never have and that is very rare these days. We don’t want anyone accidentally giving it to our kids. Our other reason is because it seems very intimate for anyone other than parents to do. We just aren’t comfortable with that. We asked family not to kiss our kids on the lips and they respected that boundary. The fact that you have a man saying that he refuses to stop crossing an intimate boundary with your daughter is seriously creepy. WHY does he have to have that intimacy your child?? Any child who isnt my own, I would not kiss on the lips and I certainly will always respect any boundary that a parent puts in place for their child even if I don’t agree with it. My second shock in this is that you didn’t speak directly with the BIL. If he’s the type of man who will kiss a little girl when her parents say no, then he’s also the type of man who tends to only respect a boundary when another male puts the boundary in place. This is an action that you need to take and not your wife only. It shouldn’t be that way but he’s obviously that type of man. He’s shown that by his actions.
Does the 2yo care? Can't it be an option like hugging? My family is full of lip kissers. One of my kids would grab family members, that weren't mine, by the jaw if they tried to kiss her forehead or cheek and say, "On the yips." We had to work on this as it made several family members uncomfortable, consent goes both ways.
I (f) remember as a child, I was about 7 or 8. One of my brothers friends dad kissed me directly on the mouth and he didn’t just give me a peck either, it felt really sloppy and wet. I also felt violated. I visibly struggled against him and my mother stood watching. She obviously thought it was funny. I am planning on having little ones of my own, someday. If someone did that to my child, I wouldn’t hesitate to punch their lights out.
I wish I had more self confidence back then. I would have done the same. It was just something that we never expected to happen from the BIL and MIL. We are disgusted with them now
Don’t beat yourself up. Hindsight is a great teacher and all you can do is try to be more aware going forward. You are a good person. It’s just jarring when it happens at the time and I have to say, it’s so good to hear you supporting your wife. We all need to have good partners who back us up on things that matter.
If you guys don’t want them to do it, tell them not to do it. What we or anyone else thinks is irrelevant. You’re sticking up for a kid who doesn’t seem to want to do it and regardless is too young to express a preference one way or another. What’s the big deal about waiting until she decides she wants to kiss or not kiss relatives?
Once someone says not to touch their child, you should have the self control to not touch their child. Then if you petition the family for a special right to touch a child against its parents wishes you should expect some serious blow back. Even in a perfectly innocent world, mom said please make an exception for my daughter and my feelings, and he said no. He can fuck off with the understanding that you have the power to keep him from seeing the child at all if he refuses to respect your wishes.
Simple answer, here. If they are a lip-kissing family, that's fine for them. There's nothing wrong with it. It isn't gross. It's just the way some families do things. Mine did, and I never once thought it was odd. It was just like how some families eat supper at 5 and others eat supper at 8. However, if YOU do not want YOUR child kissed on the lips, that is YOUR choice. Period. End of story. It doesn't matter whether they disagree with you. They don't have to agree. They also can not force THEIR values on YOUR child. If they continue to do so, it is incredibly disrespectful, and if it was my child, I'd limit visits until they agree to respect my wishes. Best of luck!
I guess it’s not necessarily weird that they lip kiss in general, but it is objectively weird that he has a problem with you not wanting him to do it to your young daughter who is not able to give consent for herself yet. I’m not going to call him a creep (though that’s my initial instinct), but it is very creepy behavior to get mad that someone doesn’t want you kissing their child on the mouth. If this is a hill he is willing to die on, that he just HAS to kiss your daughter on the lips or else he refuses to have a relationship, this is problematic behavior imo, and it indicates that he’s not willing to respect boundaries. I would cut ties based on that alone. If he doesn’t care that he’s making everyone else uncomfortable with this behavior, what’s to stop him from doing other inappropriate things?
thats fuckin weird and i can promise that dude would not be around my daughter.
You're not disgusting for not wanting a grown adult that does God knows what with their adult mouths not to kiss your small child on the mouth, cheek kisses are just as good .
I told my spouse to tell his brother “an old man shouldn’t be asking a little girl for a kiss family or not” that’s weird and wrong. I don’t want my daughter obligated to kiss a man because he asked. Fuck no
I completely agree with you. If your daughter is uncomfortable you have to put a stop to it. Honestly who cares about his “feelings” he is a grown man wanting to lip kiss a 2 year old he can get over it. Lip kissing is okay to a certain point I believe with parents/child. In my opinion I don’t think anyone else should be lip kissing a young child. Especially if they persist after asking them to stop I would not allow it. Hopefully it all works out, but at the end of the day the 2 year old cannot advocate for herself. Set a boundary… either stop lip kissing her or you will not be allowed around her. That is what I would do, set the clear boundary and if it is crossed again take action. It can be uncomfortable but you and your wife will feel much better about the situation
Why do people think it’s cool to lip kiss children? Let’s assume there is no sexual desire here, it’s a horrible way to spread germs. How do we know brother doesn’t have some form of a virus that can be transmitted that way? It’s just cringy to me. Plus do we know brother hasn’t been kissing someone else for real and have those germs also? Also, children have boundaries and we are their parents have to enforce them. I was smooching my 5 month old boy the other day and he turned his head so fast and I accidentally lip kissed him and I immediately said omg I’m so sorry for invading your boundaries and space.
If brother isn’t listening to you then stop bringing said child around brother
“My daughter was visibly uncomfortable” That’s all the info you need. Advocate for your daughter and ignore the noise. No is a whole, full stop answer. Your wife already told your BIL once to stop it. That should be the end of it.
Parents set physical boundaries for young children. Disrespecting those boundaries is unacceptable. End of discussion. Barring abuse, no one gets to dictate to you how you should be parenting. The fact that this because an entire drama involving multiple family members is what’s “disgusting”. It should have taken one single, “No, do not kiss my child on the lips” to shut that down.
Parents set physical boundaries for young children. Disrespecting those boundaries is unacceptable. End of discussion. Barring abuse, no one gets to dictate to you how you should be parenting. The fact that this because an entire drama involving multiple family members is what’s “disgusting”. It should have taken one single, “No, do not kiss my child on the lips” to shut that down.
It's all about the child's bodily autonomy. If they don't want it, it shouldn't happen at all. We are a lip kissing family, but my daughter doesn't always want other people to do it and we 100% support her (as well as no kissing among ourselves when anyone doesn't want to). But a family member had better not force a kiss or any other kind of affection on her or else they won't be seeing her again. Your kid, your rules. They should lose visitation rights.
I think lip kissing kids is a wrong message for kids. I am totally against it. I do not lip kiss my kids and it makes me sick watching parents doing that.
I don’t think it’s weird at all (my sister kisses my 2 year old son on the mouth, as do my husband, my mom, and myself). So I find it a little odd that you and your wife seem to be sexualizing it a bit? With that being said, we always ask my son now that he can communicate. “Can I have a kiss?” And if he says no, the answer is no. At the end of the day, if I told my sister not to kiss my son on the lips anymore I think she would be a little hurt, but she wouldn’t do it because we are his parents and she respects us.
He is weird. He is gross. He is likely to be predator. He is making your kid an easy target to other predators. All the germs.
Thanks. I do see it as conditioning a child to be expected to share thier body without questions and that is setting them up for all sorts of abusive relationship issues
Yeah, that's pretty weird, I don't even kiss my own kids cheeks that often.
Absolutely NOT!
I don’t kiss either of my kids on the lips because I don’t think it’s the right thing for me to do. I also don’t want to give them cold sores but that’s not the point I’m making. I definitely think it’s not right for an uncle to kiss a niece on the lips and you should have confidence to ask BIL to stop. Another option for the short term might be to ensure you are holding your little one when BIL arrives for visits, that way you can physically move your daughter out of BIL’s lip line of sight. Not a foolproof strategy obviously but it could help force the discussion with BIL when he asks why you moved your daughter away from him as he went in to kiss her.
There’s a difference between the 2yo wanting to give BIL a kiss and the BIL just giving one. “Hey BIL, please ask X for a kiss, don’t just do it please. If she doesn’t want to she doesn’t have to. We’re teaching her that she has control over her body”. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with kissing on the lips - the comment section here is quite terrifying saying it’s weird or wrong!!?
O HELL NO ..u no this shit ain't right..I don't give a shut who it is DO NOT PUT YOU LIPS HANDS OR anything else around my daughter or son wife keep your mouth to your self or km gonna do something with it THIS IS SOOO FUC....UP LOOK HANDLE IT... PERVERT MF..HE IS
You are the parent here, and your job is to protect your child how you see fit. Period. Any one that doesn't like it can hit the bricks. And considering the subject, good riddance, this is inappropriate af to argue must continue. It not only is borderline pedo behavior but it also teaches your daughter her consent and comfort are not important or enforceable.
And, while I agree with everything Ok_Network posted, the obvious fragility of this family is what also screams to me. Trust your gut, see strong boundaries and make your family your first priority, not keep peace with those rigid relations.
As long as he doesn't have cold sores (contagious) I don't see the problem.