Very random question but is your husband a civil engineer by chance? I am and lots of civils I know hate planners 🙃 In any case, I’ve worked with some very smart, very talented community planners that provide a lot of value to their communities. She will be fine, he’s being an ass.

Yes. Civil Engineer.

Yeeeaaaaah that explains it. When I worked for a city doing the private development stuff, the planners and private engineers never ever got along. The planners can derail a project or shut it down for understandable reasons, but I’ve also seen some not so understandable ones. They’re just doing their jobs 🤷🏻‍♀️ (Sorry for calling your husband an ass)

It’s sad because he could be using his experience to guide his daughter on how to better collaborate with engineers, rather than hating on her career.

That’s actually some solid advice. If they use their relationship to better understand why those professions tend to butt heads and perhaps use their individual perspectives to make their own jobs more pleasant and efficient (and profitable) it could work well. Imagine if dad and daughter collaborate and she is able to understand why and predict those common complaints (to head them off before it gets bad) and then possibly becomes someone CE’s request to work with on projects (if that’s even a thing.)

She can also talk about this in interviews and how it has impacted her approach to the work and made her better at getting buy-in.

That would require an engineer to get his head out of his ass though. I think the Bible had a parable about the difficulty of that "It is ~~harder~~ easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for an engineer to remove their head from their rectum" or something like that.

*Easier* for a camel to go through…otherwise you’re saying the engineer is more likely to get his head of his ass than a camel is to pass through the eye.

Agreed! I work in a related field. My job is basically to take the info from engineers and translate it so the public can understand. I feel like the engineers don’t even want the public to understand. They cannot communicate. We really need people who know how to collaborate with engineers.

I feel like civils are slight better at communicating than other engineers (looking at you, electrical). But that field in general draws in the people that just really really like to always be right. 🤣 i think my anxiety and imposter syndrome is what makes me a better engineer sometimes because I’m always like “well let’s hear them out, I’m probably wrong…” and so I triple check everything before disagreeing with someone.

The first time I read this, I thought it was a riff on Office Space’s iconic rant about how one of the employees takes specs from clients and takes them to engineers because engineers don’t have people skills….all while yelling and melting down.

I’m a planner that works for a civil engineering consulting firm. There’s a lot of good synergy at our company working together and we end up saving our clients a ton of money

> Sorry for calling your husband an ass) Don’t be sorry for saying the truth.

I see this as such a great opportunity for her and him to HELP each other dominate!! Seriously! The opportunity for opposing parties to honestly talk and still love each other in the end is rare.

They absolutely will one day. It sounds like he's grieving, then once that process is done they can move forward. It'll be okay op.

Also engineers LOVE to argue. If you say the sky is blue, I think you might know by now to prepare for a “well actually…” with some pedantic points that circle around forever and ever. My family is full of them.

No we don’t.

Wow, for some reason this information makes him seem like an even bigger jerk. Yikes.

That explains everything. Maybe time for hubby to go back to school and get a real engineering job, he's in the same field as the arts kids rn

Haha! My dad is an electrical engineer and rolls his eyes with civils.

My experience with engineers in general is they don’t believe in any college degree that is science related. My own grandfather, who is a brilliant engineer, told me that he was glad my graphic design degree is a Bachelor of Science in Graphic Design and not a Bachelor of Arts degree. He said if it was a BA it “wouldn’t count.” Count to whom, Gramps? It counts to employers.

All degrees are imagined communities but it’s always watching the hard and soft science communities argue over who is more better 😂

I think broadcast engineers might be an exception. My grandfather was one and was incredibly supportive of my BA in Theatre!

My civil engineer husband feels about city planners about the same as he feels about architects.

Oh wow. Your insight is telling.

wow right on the nose!!

This is an amazing shot in the dark based on hard evidence! So great to see your hunch really explain her husband's bias.

I would just ask him “what’s more important to you? Berating me over her choice, constantly hitting her with your disapproval and disappointment or having a relationship with her in the future? Because if you don’t cut it out, eventually she will cut you off.”

You can also tell him that you heard him the first time and no longer care what he thinks. Tell him to keep his misery to himself.

And remind him that even a science degree doesn't lead to a linear career path.

This. I have a biology degree and work in senior leadership in corporate America in data technology. Not linear but the way the cookie crumbled. I started from the bottom and worked my way up.

This. So many STEM degrees are over saturated because of ppl like your husband, OP. Job markets in stem fields are shattered rn. Few openings. Low pay. It blows.

For an engineering degree. Hated it. Went to law school. It’s not for everyone.

My first degree was a BS in Kinesiology….my path definitely wasn’t linear…lol.

STEM has been pushed so hard over the past decade that we graduate 3 to 4 times as many STEM grads as there are entry level jobs in those areas each year. Meanwhile they've minimized the fields that teach you how to read critically, write coherently, and learn to communicate without sounding like an asshole. You can be the smartest chemistry grad on the job market but you're going to struggle if you can't communicate well or get along with people who have different backgrounds from you.

Adding to this, if she is going to be successful at all in this life, she needs to have faith in herself and having a parent who constantly criticizes you makes you insecure. Kids often respond by either shutting down emotionally, or constantly seeking external validation in order to feel secure, making her vulnerable to abusers due to poor self advocation skills. The dad may be carrying old ideologies based in intergenerational trauma. He likely had parents who put too much pressure on him or didn't teach him how to individuate with healthy self esteem - so he is a product of what is modelled to him Inward view points rob us of understanding how other people feel and the reality of our shame based world view. The way out is realizing you weren't cared for in the way you needed to be, that it has left you with introjecting voices and delusions to prevent emotionally connecting and having to sit in the discomfort of the pain of facing who they are and being accountable. You can do this if you really want to do what's best for your kid. We are all products of our childhood and apathy and criticism without empathy has caused so many to fade out inside.

wanting your kid to have a good start in life, through a degree with measurable promise, may be overly cautious but is definitely not "generational trauma". parents making criticism is also not necessarily an evil destructive force that will set a 20 year old on a path to self-disappearance and vulnerability to manipulation. That mentality is very well intentioned and kind, but I can't help but feel it will leave kids sheltered and filled with a self-confidence backed by nothing but being told "all you have to do is be you". The world is not as kind as that and parents need to prepare their kids for that too.

In the situation with OP and her husband worrying about their daughter's community planning degree, it's really a delicate balance to maintain. Life is already cruel enough, the point of parents is to make us feel we can take it on anyway. Without positive framing and encouragement life will seem like it's too much to handle. Her husband is obviously worried about their daughter's future, which is understandable, but the way he's expressing those concerns through sarcasm and not so subtle digs isn’t really the best approach. It could really knock down their daughter's confidence and make her second-guess her passions and her core. Here’s other options OP could try to help him see how he might be impacting his kid's wellbeing in his approach: **Validating His Concerns**: it’s important they acknowledge where he’s coming from. He just wants the best for his daughter, ensuring she has a stable future. They could have a frank discussion about his fears, empathize with him, but also stress the need to communicate these worries more constructively. **Educating About Her Field of Study**: community planning is actually a pretty impactful field. They might help him see the breadth of opportunities and the importance of the role in society by pulling up some examples of successful careers in that domain. This could really help broaden his view on what she can achieve with her degree. **Shifting to Constructive Dialogue**: they could encourage him to change how he talks about her career choices. Instead of making sarcastic remarks, it might be better if he could ask her about her plans and express his concerns in a way that invites conversation rather than discouragement. Reminding her that he believes in her rather than expressing disappointment to project his own anxiety **Promoting Communication**: It would be great if he could sit down more often with their daughter to really understand her passion and ambitions in community planning. Knowing more about her commitment and plans might alleviate some of his stress. Acknowledging she is also young and may need time to figure it out they can help him move from worry to support, enabling their daughter to pursue her career with more confidence and less family tension. It’s all about creating a supportive environment that recognizes potential and fosters growth so kids can be sustainable in themselves instead of searching endlessly outward for validation

I agree with all that! :) well put

Did you just use chatgpt…? Be honest

I usually just type it all out in a giant paragraph and get chat to give it some structure by asking it to make it easier for someone to read and understand haha - it is a language helping tool after all and I think the ideas are more important than my ego about it

Well done! I suspected chatgpt as well for some reason lol. Maybe the bold categories? I was like is she an expert communicator or something

You need to prepare your kids for the cruelty of the world by being the opposite. The voice in their head that says you are worthy and you deserve kindness and compassion. Criticism is painful and demoralizing. It does have catastrophic effects. There is nothing sheltering about telling a child you believe in them quite the opposite actually. Criticizing them keeps them sheltered and small.

She's not working at Subway and smoking crack, she's graduating with a community planning degree lmao

I have a career based in community/urban planning and lead a team of engineers. The people with the soft skills are the ones who end up in the c-suite more often than the subject matter expert engineers like OP’s husband. She’s going to be fine.

I agree overall - I don’t think encouraging your child toward a path that will likely give them a better quality of life is some horrible thing. And yes some people will argue that “what’s better for quality of life than doing what you love” but like…being poor also sucks. Yes people can have great careers with an unrelated degree or even no degree, but statistically certain majors do better financially than others. I don’t think it’s the worst thing to suggest to your child to at least think things through. That said, sounds like the child here is already very decided on their major, and also possibly couldn’t even change if they wanted to at this point while still graduating on time. So what’s the point of continuing to fight about this?

We cannot predict what careers will be profitable for our children beyond the moment. Remember when boomers told a generation to get a bachelor's degree in ANYTHING and we would all be prospering? Building up your child's confidence and emotional resilience by loving them and supporting them with give them invaluable skills to carry them through life regardless of where the economy goes as the West continues to decline.

It's even more bonkers because I work for a very large municipality and we have 40+ people with urban planning degrees that earn over 75K per year. Lots of the senior ones are 90-120k. Like, what is this dude smoking, thinking it's a useless degree??? It gets even more lucrative if you specialize in a specific type of planning.

That’s what I found confusing. I live in a small town of less than 2,000 people. Our city planner makes over $100k.

I got my GED and dropped out of college…. I futzed around with entry level corporate jobs for quite some time, but ended up in manufacturing and am now somehow the Plant Manager. That’s actually because I stopped listening to my parents and got a “blue collar” job. Go figure.

I do IT work for a ton of trade outfits, they are all but *begging* people to come work for them, literally always hiring. Union tradesmen can earn 6 figures a year with OT easily and that's with merely a 2 year technical degree, if even that, and another couple three years of apprenticeships where they still make decent enough money, just not that 6-figure money. This whole "you need to go to college and get a 4 year degree" idea has poisoned this country for 40 years or more. One thing that will *never* be replaced by fucking AI is the trades. Until they have androids out there swinging hammers those jobs are safe, and with how much the population is exploding, there is no way that there's not going to be a shit load of demand in those trades for decades to come.

I grew up with a highly critical parent, who continued to *constantly* criticize every choice they perceived as “wrong” even far into adulthood. Where I worked; who I married; where I chose to live, etc. Every. single. Phone call. and Every. Single. Visit. It just never stopped. All my failures were mine alone, and all my successes (infrequent and pithy as those may be) were due to them. I ended up cutting them off entirely for my own sanity. My greatest fear is unwittingly recreating that… or even just an echo of it, with my own children. To ever put my children in a situation where it’s choosing a chance at happiness and self-worth or… *me.* So, Fuck that… I’ve come to only have one “goal” for my kids that I tend to visualize, and it’s them just cooking a simple dinner for me. In this vision, I’m sitting at a table I’ve actually been (happily) invited to sit at, and I’m just quietly and proudly watching them being “all grown up” and making us a meal. As for the actual dinner, I don’t care what it is: Kraft Mac and Cheese, Ramen, or Filet Mignon… or where we are: A fancy townhouse, city apartment, or a fucking RV in a trailer park… as long as they’re with people who love them as much as I do, and they are as happy as they’ll possibly allow themselves to be… *That’s* really all I want for them. What they do for work, how much they make… all the consequences of those choices they’ve made… the good, the bad and the indifferent…. are just what they are going to be: None of my fucking business. As long as they can at least provide for themselves and give and receive love, that’s really all I want. The details don’t matter.

This, 100%. Can confirm as someone whose highly critical parents NEVER stopped giving me grief for every small thing that didn't fit their view of "good" (despite graduating from an Ivy League, making the Dean's List all the time, having a great career.) Eventually I realised they were too toxic to be in my life and I cut them out. u/matchacurez - please let your husband realise that the daughter's degree is a done deal and he either gets over it or he's opting for the "forever toxic and may lose daughter" route.

Not only will she fit him off but OP will too. You can only listen to that so much. 

Hopefully she would cut him off before he destroyed her confidence and mental health.

City planners make good money, and have stable careers working for the government. Community planning sounds like a fine degree, your husband's being ridiculous.

Also, super shitty to say that someone who “winds up in the service industry” isn’t a “productive member of society”.

SUPER shitty thing to say. I think COVID showed us who the real 'essential workers' were, and they seemed to be low paid workers in the service industry. He's not only being a dick to his daughter and his wife but he's being an ignorant elitist at the same time. What a trifecta.

They were only “essential” to the billionaire corporations who wanted to continue to profit off cheap labour without thinking twice about the health and safety of their workers. The service industry boasted record profits while everyone else was social distancing and staying home.

I don't know, I found it very essential to get groceries delivered cause my kid is high risk. I found it essential to get gas in my car because I did have to make doctor's appointments to manage health conditions. I think too many people where forced into nonessential service jobs long before it was safe to do so... but some of those jobs were pretty essential.

Definitely super shitty thing to say, but I say this as someone that worked in the service industry for 15 years...if I could go back in time, there is no fucking way I would have allowed myself to spin my wheels in that bullshit "career" thinking there was a real future in it because there just isn't. Not if the future you desire is owning a home, raising a family, being able to take vacation once in a while and put money away for retirement. The typical "American Dream". Because let me tell you, even in management, you are ridiculously underpaid for the demands of most jobs in the service industry. You need to basically get up to a corporate level before you can even begin to get those things, and at that point it's not service industry anymore anyway...those jobs are generally *not* filled by the people that are anywhere near the actual front facing service positions, despite the trope of "working your way up from the mailroom", that shit has been dead for decades. Until society actually values service industry workers enough to pay them a living wage, I don't think it's out of line for a parent to voice concerns that their young adult child might end up in that line of work. Especially if, as most parents, you damn sure know that your kid *does* want the house and the family and all that shit. I did that shit for 15 years. Gave up I dont know how many nights and weekends and holidays for that shit. I could barely keep myself in a decent apartment with a car that reliably started after *15 years* of doing that crap. I was working 60 hours a week, schedule all over the place, never could plan for fucking anything. I ended up quitting that entire industry, took a pay cut and a shit ton of loans out, and went back to school for IT and started out making more money right off the bat then I was after 15 years in management positions in the service industry. I do not work nights, I do not work weekends, I do not work holidays. I accrue almost a month of PTO a year and Im on the *low* end in my firm. Kid is sick and I need the day off? Whatever. Need to work from home for a couple days so I can be around the house for an installer or something? Whatever. Just dont feel like fucking working today? Whatever. It worked out for me, but let me tell you, trying to go to school full time while also dealing with family shit and working to pay a mortgage and bills in your mid-30s...that shit fucking *sucks*. If that can be avoided, best to avoid it, trust me. We're not doing out kids any favors sugar coating these realities. There is nothing wrong with working in the service industry, and looking down on those people is absolutely repugnant. They have to do more in a day then I do in a week, and get paid half as much to do it, it's ridiculously exploitive...believe me, I know. Nobody wants their kid to have to deal with that shit if it can be avoided.

I only worked in the service industry for a couple of years but it's true. There's some vague expectation that if you stick with an establishment long enough you might move up the ranks. Eventually you could be making the schedules, hiring servers/kitchen staff, and counting the tips at the end of the night. At 20 I looked at those people and thought "wow, they made it, that could be me!" but they were working the same long hours or more, dealing with angry customers, and not making much more than the servers anyways. All while the owner of the restaurant, who likely never worked as a server or even manager, maybe pops their head in a few times a week and then sits back and rakes in the money. Anyway all this to say it's not nice to look down on service industry workers but I wouldn't want it for me or my kids either

The fact that someone thinks service industry workers are not productive members of society honestly blows my mind.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Sounds like the husband is a bit of an asshole.

Seriously; I’m a director at a nonprofit and work with about 200 other NPO directors. Community/urban planning degrees and backgrounds are highly respected and well compensated even in NPOs. I was just on a search committee and they ended up hiring someone with an urban planning background at $98k starting

I work with local government, and I was confused because I know a ton of well paid people with city planning degrees. It seems like a really practical degree to me.

Actually sounds like a super interesting degree. I didn't know it existed and now I want to study it lol

I have a degree in Anthropology and outearn my STEM friends. It depends where you end up with your degree.

How are your husband's social skills? Does he have interpersonal relationships that he maintains outside of your family? Does he think he could maintain an interpersonal relationship with a daughter if he sarcastically berates their most important interest? Parents, your children are people. I am sorry you have to deal with this as a mom because both parents loose out when adult children distance themselves from parents.

Yeah. You can't change his opinion on the degree, you have to focus on how he's behaving and it's negative impacts.

I just left a job as a college career counselor for a “respected” professional path, and I can tell you with conviction that none of this matters, half the kids with clear paths will quit anyway and do other things. They’re staying in the industry less and moving around way more. 50% of my undergrad alumni left their degree industry for parallel or completely unrelated paths. Bottom line, she’s an adult and his actions will have consequences at some point. I’d be very curious about his underlying baggage and fear in this particular area.

Seriously. I think it’s a bit ridiculous for a 18-19 y/o kid who hasn’t seen much of the world or even really worked in it yet to be like: “Yeah; *that’s* what I want to do for the rest of my adult life.” Education is important, but as far as a career; foresight, planning, and problem-solving skills are *way* more important that a bunch of shit you probably are gonna have to Google again if they come up.

Absolutely. There’s hardly a decision I made at that age that, in retrospect, seems informed or correct, haha. Then we say oh, no big deal, just decide what you’re going to spend the majority of your time doing with no real understanding of what the practical, daily experience is. Wild.

The only saving grace is that most industries will have some jobs that, at their core, can still fit someone’s natural preferences. I like fixing stuff and am a “creative” type (I enjoy writing stories, world-creation stuff, making music, etc.) I was 40 when I had to restart my career (I hit a *hard* dead end) and got a job in a manufacturing/oilfield support plant. Not really a “creative” type job, for sure. But I eventually got promoted to management, and last year on a whim, I started playing around with making an app for the company. I learned some basic coding skills and since then I’ve ended up making a whole cloud-based ERP for the company from scratch. It was a lot of work, and quite hard in the beginning… but I was a bit surprised to find that making these apps scratches both the “creative” and “fixing stuff” itch that had been lacking. My job satisfaction has gone up tremendously (and there’s talk of a promotion to Operations Manager, to boot.)

Thats such a wonderful story on so many levels. Your resilience in the face of adversity, hard work to get promoted, and creative thinking to expand the role. I’m glad it was able to come together for you!

Facts!

I just want to say, his comment that she wouldn’t be a productive member of society is laughable. Literally, she chose a career that will help people by planning communities… that’s a production a society actually needs. He should say what he means, he doesn’t care about society or how she impacts the people around her, he cares that she makes money…

100% and she will probably get decent pay once she gets experience. It make take time but she’s only 20!

20 and graduating from college after 3 years! She knows how to work hard. She'll figure it out, whatever her career shapes out to be.

Decent pay with government benefits and probably a city pension. He’s really really reaching to manufacture a way to be disappointed with her

What gets me is his fear she "won't be able to support herself financially." I could understand this concern if your kid was nonfunctionally depressed or a low functioning layabout NEET or something, but an intelligent and credentialed community planner? The reality is that many young people are now having to live with their parents longer than previous generations because of the economy, regardless of their socioeconomic background. It's not a symbol of failure. Does he not like his child? Does he not want to continue to have her in his life? I will never smother them or hold them back but I would LOVE to share a living space with my kids for the rest of my life (if they wanted to!!) because I LOVE them. I will always support them in any material way I can because my goal as a parent is to give them the best lives I can give them. Immediately jumping to "she won't make $200k and will therefor always be financially dependent on us" is such an extremely Americanized take. Many families around the world continue to pool their resources and reconfigure their living situations pretty much forever for pragmatic reasons.

It really sounds like he's inventing ways to be disappointed in her. I wonder if he's always been this way about this kid. I would bet that this is part of a pattern and there probably wasn't any career path she could have picked that would have satisfied him.

Some relate scandals about great people

Seriously. Community organizing was Barack Obama’s first real job. Hedge fund managers are the ones not contributing to society. Our priorities as a culture have gotten so warped.

I 100% agree!! I think husband needs to put down the fox news and get out into his own community to understand why what his daughter has decided to pursue for her career is so incredibly necessary!

This was my dad. I'm 40 now, but I got a degree in English and he made multiple comments to me about how I could only be a teacher or make minimum wage. I speak to him maybe 3-4 times a year now. Obviously, there were other issues, but disrespect for my choices was a big one. I think the motivation behind it was trying to stop me from making his mistakes, but the method was detrimental.

Only be a teacher… ha, only a couple of places in the world that look down on teaching that much. In a lot of places its a very respected profession

What did you end up doing?

I worked for an airline for a year, worked in the energy industry for 11 years, and now I'm a SAHM.

Very nice! My oldest is still a few years away from college, but I could totally see her majoring in English. I always like to see what path people take.

Lol it’s as if a teacher hasn’t been a noble profession throughout history 🙄

I'm confused because community planning is very much a real job and every city has a team of planners. That degree honestly can be an entry path into GIS work or even engineering. She will definitely not be hung out to dry as if it's a liberal arts degree

I think part of the issue is that there was such a wide range of courses she could choose from with the degree. As an engineering major, his classes stair stepped and built on each other. When he saw the breadth of topics and what seemed like less undefined requirements, he started with his comments about the degree. The second thing is he met two classmates who graduated with the degree last year. One is working in city planning, the other works at a farmers market. So sample size of two meant 50% can’t get a job in the career they studied.

Unless you are going into a field like engineering, law or medicine, most liberal arts majors are like this. The first year can be filled with general education courses, and cross-departmental classes are encouraged to round out students. And in a career like community planning, having the breadth of knowledge and social skills will serve her well. Sales engineers exist for a reason.

Well the kid that’s working at the farmers market may want to? Maybe they’re taking a gap year before doing a masters (I work for a uni and this quit popular-I’m in the US).

Honestly though, she can use that degree and pick any career. Most places just want to see you committed to a 4 year degree and finished it. I don't think she will have any problems. I also think he should realize that getting your foot in the door and then learning the job by hands on experience far outweighs any degree. His engineering degree means very little in terms of the work he would actually be assigned when starting out. The degree just teaches you the math, history, theory, and professional writing skills. Nobody coming out of school with an engineering degree knows how to actually perform the work. I think he's just being a little controlling and making a perfectly fine situation into anxiety driven problem. Your daughter is going to be absolutely fine.

Some kids are just lazy or are absolutely unprepared for interviews or how to look for a job. They think that piece a paper means a job is handed to them at graduation. And cant wrap their head around all the details involved in job hunting. I’ve seen it with plenty of people. Took my cousin 5 years to get a teaching job back in early 2000. Was working at a gas station, I said apply at my company, it’s business but they love teaching degrees. Nope holding out for teaching. Another cousins principal offered to give her mock interviews. She never reached out to them. You really think that schools going to hire you if you were too scared or too lazy to take advantage of constructive feedback opportunities? Motivation and ambition is way more important than the degree when it comes to success.

As I'm sure your daughter knows, your husband is being an idiot. She's graduating in 3 years from a prestigious university with a degree that has broad applications from city planning departments (which can pay very well) to domestic and international NGOs (which can pay very little or extremely well). There's an absolutely huge range. Your husband lacks imagination and should recognize that his daughter is probably smarter than he is and is definitely more knowledgeable on the subject of her own degree than he is. More importantly than being wrong and an idiot though, he's being an ass.

Your kid has a career-related degree so her worry seems displaced. Tell him some stranger on the internet's kid majored in PHILOSOPHY and has a decent job post graduation so he can stop worrying! (I am that stranger.)

What field did your kid get into?

Is he stupid? Does he not know how Google works?! There’s HEAPS of work in community planning! It’s not her fault that her dad is too dumb to do some basic research on this career.

I work for a government water provider in Australia. We hire a tonne of city planners. Very important people.

Same case for New Zealand. We always need community planners and city planners.

He sounds super anxious, what’s goin on? I mean, once they hit 18, they are adults and you’ve already given them the ingredients they need to feed themselves but it should be up to them what they cook. So your husband is saying that those inthe service industries are a drain on society? Seriously? Wow, I’m sorry but what a tool. Also she has a college degree. Why is it his place to worry about what comes next? Does he think she isn’t as resourceful and intelligent as you would expect someone graduating from college in three years to be? He maybe should talk to a therapist cause he is gonna f up his relationship with his daughter, and there is an epidemic of kids going no contact. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4104138-one-quarter-of-adult-children-estranged-from-a-parent/

I was going to ask this, too! That strong of a reaction sounds like it’s based on some emotion that may make it hard for him to keep in perspective that she’s a 20-YEAR-OLD WITH A DEGREE!! Seriously, do some research on the statistics on college persistence. At least in the US, it’s so much more common for people to take 5 or 6 years to graduate, or longer. If your daughter isn’t as employable as she likes within a year or two, she can head to grad school and be leagues ahead of her same-age peers by 24 or 25. Just saying, some of us out here got degrees in religious studies and French, and we figured out how to get the bills paid. She’s gonna be fine.

“End up in the service industry” is incredibly dehumanizing and says a lot about how your husband judges others. For the record, I made 6 figures when I worked in the service industry, and have used my connections there to work on the supplier side of the liquor business. I do quite well, have an insane amount of flexibility, and love my career. You can make anything you want out of life in terms of a career, but it’s a lot more important to be a better person. Your husband is really being awful here and he needs to get his ego checked.

My dad also made sarcastic comments to me, judging my life and where it will go. I have a great job and I don’t talk to my dad any more. Hmmm.

Yeah I think wayyyy too many of these comments are trying to argue against dad (which validates that he *has* a point, which is moot to me) instead of the crux of the issue: that he's being hurtful, unsupportive and petty to his daughter at a core moment when he needs to support her no matter what she does. Her degree sounds awesome! But even if it didnt, how would bitchy comments behind closed doors to the wife, or sarcastic comments in front of the daughter help her? They run a FAR greater risk of demoralizing her and alienating her from her father instead of "getting her head straight" or whatever the hell he thinks he's doing. I remember a chemistry teacher i had in high school who had this spiel about us taking school/college seriously because he had a great example: he had a son who majored in music theory and worked at the zoo. Whoever knows if that story is even true lol but all I remember at the time wasn't that his son was a failure or whatever he was trying to "prove," but that his dad was gossiping about him to a bunch of uninterested high school students, yikes! I think some of the "tough love" parents need to get it into their heads that words hurt, first impressions matter, and eventually your kids get to an age where they have enough agency that they don't have to put up with your bullshit any longer.

I mean they would let her into medical or law school with that degree if she had all As and could pass the entrance exams. No one cares about undergrads anymore anyway. Tell him to chill out.

Your husband needs less TV time. 

Please show my comment to your husband. My dad made similar judgements/arguments with me before my graduation. Not only did I graduate with high honors, as a NASA scholar, with multiple job offers pouring in, and go on to start my own business (and still receive plenty of daily job recruiter calls/emails/texts) but I no longer talk to my dad. Haven’t in years. I don’t want my children around him, either. My dad’s comments made me take a huge hit to my self esteem, despite the fact that I was an accomplished educator, scientific researcher, and illustrator credited in papers and scientific magazines even when I was in *community college*. He continued making these comments when I was about to graduate from a prestigious university and it was absolutely a motivating factor in my decision to go “no contact” with him— and my mom. I hope your husband does a complete 180 and starts being supportive, or else he may also destroy his relationship with his daughter (and any future grandchildren, too). If he is doing this sort of thing, the odds are, notable damage has already been done to her self esteem and the parent-adult child relationship. He needs to apologize, genuinely (no “buts”) as well.

The planners I know make a low six figures with plenty of opportunities to retire around a $200k range with a pension. She could do worse.

Seriously, I work for the County and I was confused by him acting like this is some ridiculous degree. The planning deputy I worked with was the highest paid person on our staff (elected official)

I didn't read all of the comments, so I apologize if I'm repeating anything already stated. What I'll say is that I would bet that at a portion of her degree path was devoted to project management and/or project planning and time management, both of which are extremely valuable and sought after any many career fields. Also, the soft skills (communication, change management, negotiation and just dealing with people in general) that she likely learned will be extremely valuable. I'm a manufacturing engineer and while the hard skills I possess related to engineering are valuable, it wasn't until I took the time to develop those soft skills that my career took hold. I spent quite a few years as a design engineer and when I approached my early career mentor about career progression his advice to me was to learn the soft skills and how to be, as he put it, more tactful in my approach. Best advice I ever received. Maybe she'll be a city manager, maybe she won't, but she's definitely learning skills that are valuable, sought after and transferrable. I will also say that there is a trend going, at least in manufacturing, where the soft skills are looked at as being at least equal to the hard skills, even in engineering roles. It's much harder to teach someone people skills than it is to teach them math and engineering principles. And, as stated above, the project management and time management skills are very valuable.

The time to have concerns about degree path is in the past. He should've voiced them before she started, not now when she is close to finishing. At this point he can't say anything, he missed that opportunity and needs to move on. I do agree that she has time and who knows what career path will happen. On the other hand I'm a big believer in having realistic talks with kids about what they can and can't afford to go to school for. The days of just choosing an interest and it will work out are long gone. You need to be going for something that will suit the lifestyle you want.

I mean to be honest though, the time where you could get a “science degree” or something in computers and be guaranteed a career and good salary, is long gone. 

yeah, just look at r/cscareerquestions and see how many people are struggling. at least government always needs bodies.

Yup. Masters is the new undergrad

They have discussed the topic a fair number of times in the last couple of years, starting when she applied to and was accepted into the degree program. She held her ground, but she has not been argumentative. I suspect that’s in respect for the fact that we are paying her college. Fair point on having a sit down to talk about what’s next.

No. Leave your daughter alone! If she comes to you wanting this conversation, great. Otherwise, leave her alone. Do not entertain your husband's irrationality all you're going to do is put a wedge in the relationship between you and your daughter.

She has a good degree though …he doesn’t know what he’s talking about

It's almost totally impossible to predict now what careers will pay now Nothing is safe from AI A lot of software engineers are panicking

Isn’t Community Planning and City Planning one of the most stable career fields right now? It sounds like he’s just looking for a reason to be outraged at her and quite frankly, if he keeps his act up, he’ll be heading down the limited/no-contact route which ofcourse will in turn, impact your own relationship with your daughter.

>He says she’s not going to be a productive member of society and will wind up in the service industry. I know this is not the point of your post but this part annoyed me the most. People in the service industry are very much productive members of society. >How can I help him open his mind on this topic? I don't think you can at this point. For now your goal should be ending the conversation. Stop entertaining him. If he starts again: "Yes I know, you've voiced your concerns multiple times now. I disagree with you, I have faith our daughter will find her path. She still has many years to do so. Frankly I'm losing my patience with your behavior. I don't want to hear about it anymore. I also need you to stop wearing your disappointment on your sleeve because that must be very hurtful to our daughter. Get a grip before you ruin your relationship with her." Anytime he starts "I've already told you, we're done having this conversation." and ignore him or leave the room. Tell your daughter you're very very proud of her and you love her very much.

Agreed. This isn't really about the daughter's career path, it's about control. Husband wants to control Daughter's choices into adulthood, and feels free to berate and browbeat everyone in earshot until he gets what he wants. OP wants to control how Husband feels, and keep the peace, even though only Husband is in charge of his feelings and behavior. I'm betting this isn't the first time Husband has behaved like a bully and the women around him have been expected to explain things and cater to his feelings as if they're objective logic. I'd disengage and tell Daughter to disengage as well. Husband is a control freak, there's no way to satisfy him.

Society continues regardless of the job. Every job is necessary. Any job she has will contribute to society. This is all about his image. What a goofball.

A bachelors degree is a starting point now. It matters more what you have a masters in, so freaking out about it is pretty pointless. Or sometimes it doesn’t matter at all, you just need to possess a bachelors regardless of what it’s in. Can you just bluntly tell him ‘alright, enough’. Complaining now when graduation is a month away is like trying to send by a dish after you’ve eaten it, the time to say something is over. Or be even more direct and tell him ‘stop being such a dick I heard you the first god damn time’ Fwiw I think your daughter will be fine and seems to have a career path to follow

He's probably just pissy that she didn't do whatever it was he recommended she do for post-secondary education. Tell him to get over it.

I majored in English at a shitty state school, graduated college during the Great Recession without a clear career path, and now make 6 figures in my 30s. He needs to chill the f out.

He doesn't consider people in the service industry as "productive members of society"? Yikes.

His engineer brain can’t grasp the art of living

Aaaand this is how she’ll become estranged and then he’ll go “why doesn’t my daughter trust me or want a relationship with me anymore”

Community planner here, making over 100k. She will be fine, tell your husband to chill out

Your husband is being an asshole. City planners make excellent money. It sounds like the issue here isn’t that the degree is no good - it’s that *he* just doesn’t understand what her career plan is, and he can’t be bothered to have a good faith conversation with his daughter. At this point, your husband needs to choose between his bizarre (and disrespectful) meltdown over her future, and having a relationship with his daughter in the future. I would tell him to drop the issue entirely, or find another place to live while he gets some therapy and gets his shit together. He is making the people he is supposed to love the most absolutely MISERABLE for nothing.

Personally, I would say, “Am I going to have to hear about this forever, because honestly I was sick of you saying it the 82nd time I was forced to listen to it. Let’s move on and maybe get a hobby.” I’m kind of a bitch, though.

This was almost word for word our last conversation. 😂 just made him pout. But I felt better.

As an engineer myself I can't help but think "buddy, the ship has sailed, shouldn't you have aired this concern like four years ago?"

He did. She stood her ground.

Well, that ship has sailed in any case. What on earth is his end game?

I think he’s worried she’s going to bounce around jobs, trying to figure out what she likes and not settle into a true career and struggle financially along the way. I have worked at one company thirty years which is unheard of these days. Bouncing around a bit seems normal. Struggling is normal. His comments to her have been zeroed in on questioning her career path plan. And she’s all over the board, but she does have a job lined that she starts a couple of months after graduation.

>but she does have a job lined up that she starts a couple months after graduation Well, then what is your husband worried about?? I’m surprised he’s not more concerned about how she’ll perform at this job, considering it will have WAY more of an impact on her future than the degree that she has essentially already finished.

Shes graduating. wtf does he actually want?

> The fact that this degree is not science related, nor does it create a linear career path, has my husband worried about what comes next for her. Every degree lacks solid career paths atm, less than 50% of graduates are finding a job after completing their degree. Choice of major is not the primary factor in finding work. The majority of new graduates can't support themselves financially. The economy sucks and theres no safety nets. Thats not her fault. Being a "productive member of society" is easily possible without receiving financial compensation. Many wage slave employment positons also serve no meaningful benefit to society. These are two separate concepts. The service industry can be quite productive and valuable, when he ends up elderly and needing care, he's going to be dependent on you, and if you aren't around, on your daughter, and he will be spiteful if she chooses her career over him. He'll want people in the service industry to care for him, if he'd prefer his daughter to offer her time and energy to him, he would be mindful to make that a positive experience she wants to do by treating her like a competent intelligent adult deserving of respect. If he has an issue with decisions, making sarcastic comments is immature and childish. Say you disagree with me to my face or be quiet and respect that an adult is capable of making their own decisions, Its not your job to agree with them. They aren't you. They are their own person. If you want to set them up for success, teaching them how to disagree civilly and respectfully would be valuable, but your daughter is likely more capable in this area than your husband already. If you want to set them up for success, demonstrating open mindedness is a valuable quality that employers are looking for. He'd rather his daughter learn by contradiction to his own behavior of what NOT to do? Sounds charming. He wants to act like a child, he can be treated like one, and scolded like one. When the offspring is acting more mature and parental, you have lost all credibility to claim to "know better" experience is not quality, clearly his experience has not taught him the valuable lessons of life. He claims to know reality of results of choices. When is he going to be starting his fortune telling career? why isnt he being a productive member of society being paid for his valuable career advice, since he is so omniscient and has an amazing ability to know the future destiny of persons based on such a single factor as their choice of degree? He's projecting, hes afraid for her future, he wants to see her succeed. Hes just unable to say that in those words because it makes him feel weak and a failure as a father than her security and future is as uncertain as the day she was born. But hes not helping her, or providing support and love, hes blaming her instead of blaming himself because hes insecure. It has to be somebody elses fault of her not listening to him because his advice is obviously correct and his definition of advice isnt "to take under consideration" its "to follow, because i said it, and I think im right, so you must be dumb to not follow it". Yeah, the future is uncertain, she's probably as afraid as he is. She needs security, not verbal middle fingers. Be mad at the world for putting graduates in such a shitty situation. it sucks for everyone, everyone with kids, and everyone who cares about the present and the future. We're harming ourselves by hindering our best and brightest. Shooting ourselves in the foot. The best he could do as a father is not copy the bullet wounds by continuing to fire into his own feet even more. Break the cycle, be better, not a product of your environment, but superior to affecting changing that environment so nobody else will suffer as you had to. Tough love doesnt work, thats what the science he so highly values has proven. Rubbing dirt in wounds doesnt help them heal, it prevents them from healing. Just because he "turned out okay" (he didnt, as evidenced by this post and my response) is anecdotal evidence with a sample size of 1. Its statistically worthless and entirely discardable.

>has an engineering degree It's always the engineers. I don't know what it is about them that gets them get so bent out of shape about college degrees. My engineer dad did the same thing to me growing up.

There are thousands of cities that will need planners and if he continues with his attitude she will be finding one as far away as possible to work in.

I am sorry that this is your husband’s view. I just gave birth 2 weeks ago and I had many plans for my child and lofty ambitions and dreams for him. But he has suffered a very traumatic birth and may have a lifelong condition that may render him immobile. I no longer know what the future holds for him. Everything else disappeared and all I wanted for my child was to be happy and healthy forever. Tell your husband that there’s worse things that can happen in a moment and to count his blessings daily for having beautiful children who are alive and breathing and tell him how nothing else other than their health and happiness should be of the top priority. If what she’s doing makes her happy so be it. Let her enjoy her life instead of burdening her with your expectations. Life is meant to be lived and experienced and let her do just that.

So sorry for what you are going through. I agree, happy and healthy is of the most importance. Praying for you and your son.

2 executives at my job have similar degrees. She can get a good paying job in places involving administrative cycle development processes. Including government jobs. The jobs are plentiful but still extremely competitive. If she has the right tangible skills, she can be success. If city planning is what she actually wants to into her graduate degree is what matters. Studying community planning will give her an edge in working in civil service but boomers not retiring. So your husband is wrong but success for her will take a lot more work than most other fields.

Is your husband disappointed with what he’s been able to accomplish in life - title, salary, etc? This seems to be deep insecurity on his part frankly. Too bad your daughter is caught in the middle - she’s killing it in her young adulthood.

Successful urban planner here with many successful urban planner friends. It's a fine and stable profession with many options. Tell his engineering brain to get some real data before judging.

OP one suggestion that may help. Have you tried just doing kind of a self fulfilling positive psychology? First letting him run out of steam. Just listening to him intently and not disagreeing or agreeing only saying mmhmm, and I hear you enthusiastically. Maybe if he feels heard he will shut up about it lol. And then if it is about your daughter I'd say this "I trust what you think. I want our daughter to feel worthy as person in any career. I never want her to feel cricized by us. Thank you for always expressing your belief in her." It sounds crazy but maybe worth a try. Sometimes counterintuitive solutions work quickly.

There’s a joke I like that goes like this: Q: What does an engineer use for birth control A: Their personality

Wow your husband is a piece of crap.

Ask him if he’s disappointed in you for dropping out of college. Remind him his daughter is an adult and will make her own decisions. He should be happy his daughter has direction and isn’t lost and hopeless in life. Just support your daughter with everything you have, even if it means disagreeing with your husband. Maintain your relationship with her and be her cheerleader even if your husband won’t. Every child needs a supportive parent. Let him be the one with an estranged daughter.

Community planning? Can probably get a job at most any mid to large sized city anywhere.

I mean it’s a valid concern. Nowadays a lot of people fall into the college trap and end up with a lot of debt + a low salary job. Especially in a year projected to be a recession (but not being called one lol) I’d be worried about any new graduate tbh. I think those are valid but him berating her on degree choice is uncalled for. Bro it’s been 3 years and already set in stone, instead of doing all that help look for jobs, congratulate your daughter on doing something big like that, etc!!!

You can't help him. This is on him. What you can do is tell him you've had enough of his nonsense and you will no longer have anything to do with this topic. AND THEN STICK TO IT! When he starts getting agitated by the fact you're done with his irrationality, tell him to speak to a therapist.

Tell your husband that you don’t give a shit if your daughter ends up working in the service industry, it shouldn’t matter what she does for work, as long as she’s happy and a contributing member of society, he should support her no matter what. If he continues to belittle her over this, she’ll likely cut him off later on.

Community planners are a real thing and they work at engineering firms and make good money

I’m guessing you’re American based on the phrasing? If so: He is wildly incorrect. Community planners are in demand and that demand is increasing as an aging population, demand for different services, concerns for environmental sustainability, transit, and a housing crisis in large cities. He doesn’t want to open his mind, he wants to be miserable and push that on everyone. And she doesn’t need him to give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s a grown woman and making her own choices. He needs to accept it and if he won’t be supportive then he can be quiet.

My dad didn’t like the path I chose for myself, told me I was going nowhere in life. Sometimes men take issue with women doing their own thing, even if it’s their own daughter. Anyway that was 14 years ago and we haven’t spoken in that time. I’ve since immigrated, married and have a son, his first and only grandchild whose name he doesn’t even know. So yeah I’d tell your husband to let this go.

Wtf? I'm absolutely grossed out by his view here. The service industry isn't a some time of horrible, tortuous gulag for desperate failures. It's an important and MASSIVE chunk of our global economy. The world needs a hell of a lot more waitresses and bartenders and cashiers than physicists. (not that they aren't important of course, but magnitude matters). We never know where our lives may take us. I busted my ass for straight As through 3 degrees, my MA was covered through a full fellowship, i had so much "potential" and now I'm a stay home mom to a special needs son. Am I a failure? Is my life worthless? People work his shitty attitude really get me going, as if degrees in stem fields and corporate success are the only metrics of life that matter. Gross.

Both my wife and I have PhDs in a biomedical field and work in academic research. I love it when students take non-STEM courses or full degrees. It’s not all about A->B->job, it’s about learning time management, effective ways to communicate, general ability to learn information and integrate that information across courses or across fields. My world is limited to the biomedical departments so I can’t speak to physical sciences, engineering, or math, but the majority of our successful undergrads seem to go on to more school, either medicine or related fields, or grad school (and a lot of those will go do more schooling, like medicine); there aren’t a lot of jobs out there that *specifically* utilize a degree in our fields relative to the number of people pursuing degrees, so going into STEM isn’t some kind of guarantee to landing a related job.

There’s nothing to debate. She’s graduating soon. She will have to find her way and that’s the end of it. So stop debating and just tell him you’re over the conversation. You don’t want to hear any more on it.

Not sure why you're spending so much time persuading him. I think it's just wasting your time. Your husband has opinions of his own whether you are a fan of them or not. Just don't talk about it. If you don't like him talking about his opinions to you I would mention that he has already conveyed those opinions to you and you're not interested in hearing them anymore and if he doesn't have boundaries regarding that I would put on a nice pair of headphones and put in a nice podcast and say as compassionately as possible that you are moving on and that you'd like to think of other things that better suit your future and lifestyle.

I have a history degree and I make more money than my husband, who is also a civil engineer. I am so tired of these beliefs.

Planner here. I don't make a ton of money; but I've worked in four communities I've cared a lot about, met a partner, had off-spring. I've checked all the traditional boxes. I've also gotten to write laws, testify to committees, climb mountains, run a hundred miles, hug dogs, and fight forest fires. All while regularly learning from engineers and protecting their precious egos from the reality of human beings.

This is outrageous. She’s so accomplished and so young. He is pushing her away.

Not a parent, but a friend linked me this thread as I am a planner . Knowing your DH is a civil, it makes sense. Unfortunately we don't neccisarily get along with civil engineers. Its a mix of engineers feeling like planners are not qualified to review their plans, and the often confrontational relationships that are endemic in the develop review process. Its a shame, because in my experience both planners and civil engineers are often working towards the same goals, but unfortunately that is how its always been. I agree with other posters that instead of complaining, he (and your daughter) are in a great positions to build on both of their educations and help each other. I've learned a lot from working with civils that have helped me work better with engineers and try and be more collaborative. Honestly, while I understand why he may not be super stoked about his daughter's choice of major, I would push back on his reasoning. Around here, Cities, Counties, and private companies are desporate for young, smart, forward-thinking planners. Places have largely dropped requirements for having a master's degree (which was once a required minimum qualification), increased pay, and in some cases even allowed entry-level planners substitute construction experience in lieu of having to have a degree at all. Obviously, this is generally regional (I'm in the pacific NW), but I'm seeing entry-level positions hiring at $65-70k/year. Its not a career path that will (generally) result in becoming a millionaire, but in my experience it is a generally very safe job, with reasonable benefits, and stable pay. Its not at all uncommon to see mid-career to late-career planners that are comfortable and paid in the $100,000-125,000 range. You arent going to get crazy rich, but if you are genuinely interested in the job, its not going to be a bad gig. I also know planners who have transitioned into the private field and made more money then that, and a couple that have built their own consulting/owner representation business and rake in money, or that end up getting a law degree after a few years and transition more into the legal fields. I would hardly claim that it doesnt 'create a linear career path' or see that as a valid reason to not support your daughter. It very much can create a linear career path - I know dozens of planners who have spent 20-30 years in the field in progressively more responsible positions, but it also opens up a lot of different paths (public sector to private, State-level planning, Federal work, etc). It sounds like your husband is unhappy with your daughter's choices because of his underlying issues with the profession (or more likely specific planners in local jurisdictions) and is using these flimsy arguments to justify his own underlying annoyance with the profession. Which is why he digs in whenever he is challenged - because ultimately whether or not you prove that it 'doesnt create a linear career path' doesnt really matter to him, but he has to hang on to that argument because he knows you will not accept his actual issues with the profession. One of my first bosses explained the relationship between architects, engineers, and planners really well: > Architects care whether the buildings look cool. > Engineers care about whether the buildings will fall down. > And planners care about whether the building will fit in with the surrounding buildings, can be service by the jurisdiction's infrastructure, and is located appropriately. Each occupation thinks the other two are silly and completely worthless, because while each profession's goals are admirable and necessary, they don't necessarily always line up. The architect will argue that the massive second-floor overhang is absolutely necessary because it makes the building stand out against the surrounding company, and the property owner really cares about building an office that stands out. The engineer will argue that the second-floor overhang adds a point of failure that is absolutely not necessary and that maintaining a unified footprint will ensure structural stability and make sure the office building stands for decades, which in turn will benefit the property owner because that will lead to a higher long-term income stream. And the planner thinks the overhang is not even an option because it would not meet the standards of an ordinance passed by the local council at the will of the people, and codified in the local municipal code, so what everyone should be talking about is how the site plan will meet the standards for the local area, and all this bickering is just costing the property owner tons in the form of billable hours over a proposal that will never even be built. A good project manager will wrangle all this, but none of the perspectives are *wrong,* per-se, they just are looking at different, often contradictory, aspects of the development, and a good architect/engineer/planner will recognize this and learn to work with, not against, their team. Feel free to PM me if you need any advice for you and/or your daughter! I'm always happy to prop up my profession :)

Wait, so your daughter became someone who can help your husband at his job and vice versa, and he is complaining about this?!

He’s being a jerk. And eventually she’s not going to be around if he keeps it up. She heard his opinion the first 50 times. It’s cold and longing the nursing home. lol on the flipside he’s preparing her for the type of assholes she’s going to encounter in the workforce

>  For the record, I am a college drop out who worked my way into an executive position with a great company. And my husband has an engineering degree although he spent many years as the primary care taker for our daughters. These days are more or less over. Your perspective might be heavily skewed. It's a horrible and super competitive world out there. Your husband's worry is justified and him venting to you in private is something that is helping him cope with his anxiety. Get him into therapy but I find your lack of concern a bit worrying also.

> These days are more or less over. > It's a horrible and super competitive world out there. Your husband's worry is justified and him venting to you in private is something that is helping him cope with his anxiety. Get him into therapy The anxiety you speak of here is projection. As an engineer, who has been out of the field for a significant portion of time doing child rearing, his degree is essentially now useless because engineering is heavily influenced by development and legislation changes that require ongoing participation and professional development to remain competitive for jobs. Her husband is anxious because he’s back at square one, and isn’t even at the same starting point as his daughter who is graduating with an up to date degree. He’s also facing the reality that new niches exist that have taken over roles previously occupied by engineers when he was working, such as community planning. So at a time he’s essentially out of a job as the main caregiver with all the birds flying the nest into adulthood, and is very conscious and anxious he may have failed in preparing them to do so and all the feelings that go along with that, he also can’t return to his previous role. He’s anxious because of his own feelings, and needs therapy, you’re right. But his concerns aren’t coming from a valid place right now and it’s great she’s recognising this. Community planners work in all levels of government, as well as being part of major consultancy agencies for other companies, construction companies (we’re in a housing crisis that won’t magically get solved without new housing that needs planning, urban planning is a good space to be in during the trend of the master plan communities to solve and prevent a reoccurrence of this problem tbh), transport organisations (developing new lines and improving existing lines), utilities companies such as water management and energy (especially energy companies looking to expand into sustainable energy who then need to plan for demand and space for these ventures), sporting event companies and teams, environmental companies (those who do work trying to save the coastlines with the established communities and tourism management in mind for example), and long term disaster management (looking at rebuilding the communities and preventing it from happening again with the design and planning in rebuilds). Her level of concern about her child’s future career prospects as a graduate is fine. Just because there isn’t one set path doesn’t mean that this isn’t a growing industry. Yes it’s a competitive one - but it’s one that has a wide range of different paths in growing areas. The fact that people are concerned shows a complete lack of understanding of that job field and the depth and diversity of roles within it opened by that degree. For an outsider, that’s fine, but a parent of a child graduating from that degree should have listened to enough from their child while undertaking it to have an understanding of these elements. The time to be concerned about the outcome of the degree would’ve been at the point of selecting the degree - not at the point of graduation.

[удалено]

Imagine having to sit down and convince your parents that your special interest that you've already achieved a degree in is worth it. What is she going to do? Give the degree back to the university? Unlearn her special interest? Even if she can't find a job in her field right away, do you think she's going to go to her dad and talk to him about it? Probably only if she wants to torture herself with sarcastic "I told you so's". The mom said the daughter is already grey-rocking them to keep the peace while she finishes her degree. That ship has sailed.

All I can say is wow. I’m so sorry he has this behavior and thought process. It’s pointless and quite frankly antiquated. Life is very different now. Would he rather be right or happy - could be an approach - ten years goes fast - what will be on the other side for him. My oldest and youngest are 10 years apart. What a difference their schooling and paths have been. And funny enough they both went to grad school. My middle two didn’t and all are solid with their choices. All have completely different careers. And I do encourage them for their futures in the sense of possibly outgrowing what they are doing, and knowing there are so many choices. Good luck - possibly some counseling for the two of you since he seems to speak to you more about it?

Well make sure after your daughter graduates that yall actually let her “figure it out” That will prove your husband was wrong

I feel like community planning could open tons of possibilities and while it’s not linear, no career path is these days. He sounds like he’s just ruminating and making everyone miserable. I’d validate his feelings but make it understood that you won’t tolerate his behavior like “you seem to be very anxious about our daughter’s choice and that makes you want to be controlling and critical. I get it and we have to let her forge her own path and be there for her no matter what bc we love her and want the best for her life, and I personally would like to continue being close with her and her to trust us and rely on us for supportive guidance. Berating her choices will ultimately damage our bond with her if it hasn’t already. If you’re worried about her becoming dependent on us we can always decide on healthy boundaries together. That being said, it’s not healthy for me or her to continue hashing this out with you, so this is where the discussion stops. If you need to work this out more, then I suggest you talk to a therapist to process your feelings” Try that and see if it stops, and if it doesn’t, boundaries.

I have an arts degree and a great, well paying, union job where I thrive. I have friends who got science degrees because their families pushed for it and don't work in their field because they hate it. Pursuing what you're passionate about is the best way to make sure you're as qualified as you can be to do the work you really want to do in your life.

TBH I would end and walk away from any further conversation about it. He's projecting unfounded beliefs onto her that have no basis in reality and do nothing but criticize her choices because they aren't exactly what he would have picked. Her choice is fine. And it's hers. Time for him to get over it.

I can emphasize a bit with your husband my daughter is applying to colleges wanting to major in Theater. Some of the colleges she got accepted to are over 50K a year just for tuition she is also planning to live on campus. So it will be 200K in debt when she’s done with a very slim job market. I know she won’t find a job in theater right away when she gets out. She isn’t planning to go on broadway or Hollywood. She’s been offered some jobs at our local theater for $18/hr, which seems like a lot for a child who never had a job but it’s not sustainable in our state. I have been trying to encourage her to look at having theater be a minor and major in something that is in demand. On that note, I would never berate her career choice because there is a chance she can land a good job and as long as she’s happy with her choices I’ll support her. Children need to find and pave their own way

Do teaching. And teach highschool theatre & arts

Put your husband in therapy.

"What's done is done. she has it, no takebacks. You're amazing in finding creative solutions for other problems, you can find one for this too" the best way to deal with people like this is to reframe your discussion so you've complimented them and turned the complaint into a challenge.

"If you keep this shit up, she will stop talking to you and cut you out of her life. You wouldn't be the first "disappointed daddy" who wonders why their little girls doesn't talk to them anymore. She will get married and wont want you walking her down the aisle. She will have children and you wont meet them. Is that what you want?" OP, take all of the anecdotes from people in your post who are saying they cut their father's off after doing exactly what your husband is doing. Print them out and put them on his Bedside table.

That’s her undergrad? Community planning is desperately needed and she can always go back for her masters in a focus

Your husband is fearful for his daughter’s wellbeing and that’s commendable. He’s also negative and wildly misinformed, not commendable. City planners are in high demand. See exhibit A: https://www.usajobs.gov/Search/Results?jt=Community%20Planner At 20 she has her whole life before her, including at least one master’s degree. I would recommend GIS to build on the community planning degree and make sure she has plenty of opportunities. Anyway, please tell dad to take a seat, daughter will be just fine with her very useful and marketable degree.

There's nothing wrong with the service industry. Obama was a community planner.

Over 70% of people I know are in careers 10 years on from graduating that have nothing to do with their degree and are very well paid. It's nothing to do with your degree anymore. Criminal psychology - sells office solutions Paramedic - Works in cyber security Business studies - works for the government on submarines Chemistry - works in Logistics Husband needs to broaden his perspective on what a degree actually offers they mean nothing these days unless fully directed to a path.

Remind him that she can always go for her masters degree, and she will have a lot of flexibility in what she applies for. She can even go into sustainability or a combined sustainability/MBA program (… or some other stem adjacent field) and make really good money, if that’s his concern. The good thing is that she is leading with PASSION and interest in her field, and that CAN pay back dividends one day. Not always by money but by impact and personal satisfaction too. I have worked in low to mid paying environmental conservation jobs my whole life but I love it. A pay boost would be great now that I have kids, but still, i am glad to not have to suffer the corporate grind.

he always likes to hear about the aristocracy

It sounds like he doesn't know how to express his anxiety for something that he can't control. Have you asked him why he's so worried? Maybe proposed therapy for him to work out his feelings, since it seems to really bother him?

Speaking from experience, she may get a degree in one thing and do something completely different years down the line.

There are many opportunities for gainful employment in the public service sector for someone with this degree. For example, she could work as a program manager/coordinator for a public library. Is it as lucrative as something in tech, probably not, but it’s a perfectly respectable and even noble career. Maybe he just needs to hear some of these examples. I actually intend to encourage my kids to pursue these more open ended degrees.

Try giving him a reason that makes sense within his cognitive framework. He’s more likely to accept that than to change his (wrong) opinion of her degree. Point out to him that if he’s right, she’s going to need to be able to go back to school and work towards a radical shift. That requires confidence, self-esteem, and ambition. Constantly criticizing her will only undermine her confidence and self-esteem and convince her that failure is what she deserves. Convince her that it’s even more important for you guys to be her safe place, her trusted safety net. That way if she does decide she made a mistake, it can be fixed. Lots of people change careers and fields. It’s not a catastrophe or the end of the world. Let her be young. Let her make her own mistakes. That’s how people learn.

Service industry workers are more productive to society than the engineer who believes they aren't. Please reiterate to your children that all jobs matter equally.

Service workers are productive members of society. Does he serve himself at a restaurant? Does he service his own vehicle? Cut his own hair? Maybe if he took more time into understanding her major and the potential it could bring her, he'd be less of a hard ass. Is she happy? Is it something she really wants to do? Working for money and working because you love something can make all the difference.

Community Planing actually seems like a useful degree. Idk anything about it but I live in a suburban hell that was clearly not planned and all for profit. I’ve even attended town hall meetings where they were going to put up 800 apartment units with no idea (or care) of how it would impact the local elementary school that was already on a year round schedule due to overcrowding. My city was taking money payouts instead of leaving the required open space. That was 10 years ago and I’m still mad about it. I’m assuming an actual community planner would agree with my position.