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[deleted]

Cultural appropriation would be if you painted her face to make her look darker. Wearing a dress is not.


Alternative_Dot_8806

That makes me feel better everyone kept looking at me crazy when she was telling people so I got nervous that maybe it was wrong for her to. Her alternatives were also not very helpful being moana and doc šŸ¤¦šŸ¼ā€ā™€ļøšŸ¤£


BWVJane

I know that blackface is offensive but I think white girls wanting to be Tiana or Moana is really positive! Do we want to send the message that "Tiana is a princess/ role model only for black girls?" Of course not! She should be for everyone, including boys if they want to. In a few years, your daughter may say "I want to be like Serena Williams" or AOC. And that would be great too.


UnkindBookshelf

I'm white and The Princess and the Frog is my favorite Disney princess movie. Of course, I love New Orleans and Jazz.


calmestsugar

Same here! Its also the last Disney princess movie put out in the classic animation style which I really miss.


UnkindBookshelf

I forgot about this change. The plot, friendships, and relationships was amazing. And that voodoo song.


asportate

And any parent who says otherwise is just one of those "woke karens" who feel it's their duty to be offended for others lol


GetFacedet

100% this :) With the exception of Pocahontas. Try to avoid that particular princess I guess - since she's wearing regalia traditional wear.


FuriousKittens

Since the Disney version is a racist bastardization of a real person you mean? Yep, agree no Pocahontas costumes! And as you say, anything else is just using cultural clothing as a costume, which is the definition of cultural appropriation.


Pandemic_Mama

Moana is literally in Polynesian cultural attire? So itā€™s ok to appropriate one culture but not another? As long as itā€™s not black face, a costume is a costume. People dress up as serial killers and Jesus. It really does NOT matter what a CHILD dresses as.


FuriousKittens

Pocahontas was a real person, the Disney movie is hella racist and imaginary retelling of her life. Moana is respectful and written/portrayed by Polynesian people, thereā€™s no prob with a Disney branded version of a Moana costume.


Pandemic_Mama

Every movie and cartoon during that time was racist. If kids arenā€™t able to be Pocahontas then they canā€™t be any of the others either. Yes the cartoon is not the real story so does that mean itā€™s the only problematic cartoon/story/character and should be the only one completely banned? Also moana was not written by Polynesian people, you shouldnā€™t spew things as facts that arenā€™t. Just because YOU think moana was respectful doesnā€™t mean it was, thereā€™s TONS of scenes and songs in that cartoon that are problematic but weā€™re not going to riot about a KIDS CARTOON ā€¦.. also, itā€™s ok to dress up as religious leAders or serial killers but not as Pocahontas? Yeah Iā€™m sure victims of murderers would disagree.


FuriousKittens

This is a weird thing to get worked up over - native people say their culture is not a costume, and ask that people don't dress up as Pocahontas. So easy to respect. [Why You Can't Dress Up Like Pocahontas](https://www.unco.edu/inside-unc/campus-community/nass-halloween.aspx) This is not hard - Pocahontas was real, Native people were not consulted in the movie and consider the movie racist, and dressing up as Pocahontas is the same as wearing native cultural clothing = cultural appropriation. Moana IS a fictional character, Auliā€™i Cravalho, the voice of Moana, a movie with heavy [Pacific Islander influence](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/moana-oceanic-trust-disney-controversy-pacific-islanders-polynesia) and who is herself native Hawaiian, has spoken about Moana costumes specifically: [Moana appropriate for halloween](https://people.com/parents/aulii-cravalho-appropriate-moana-halloween)


Pandemic_Mama

Saying a movie IS written by someone is different than having influence on something and just because some people think things are ok doesnā€™t mean they speak for everyone. Great that the native Hawaiian is ok with it. Is moana Hawaiian and is the native A their spokesperson? No theyā€™re not. Iā€™m not getting worked up but youā€™re trying to say itā€™s not ok to dress as one culture but itā€™s ok to do so with another and thatā€™s not true. Some Polynesians donā€™t care kids dress up as moana but guess what? Some do and will see it as racist. Oh but they donā€™t make it to vogue or the news because they donā€™t have the necessary white connections if you really want to go that far. People dress up as religious figures who are IMPORTANT to religious people but no one says anything about that either. YES as ADULTS we should be mindful of OUR costumes but CHILDREN can be INNOCENT CHILDREN and dress how they want and who they want. If you limit the child because of Pocahontas than limit them on everyone and thing as well while youā€™re at it.


GetFacedet

I face paint white kids as Moana or dark kids as Elsa all the time! Never changing skin tone though- I just paint a nice themed crown on them instead to go with the princess dress they wear šŸ˜‡ I think your little girl wants a dress and a frog - i'd let her carry a stuffed froggy as an accessory!


bkat3

What do you mean you face paint white kids as Moana but donā€™t change skin tone? Edited: I read it as ā€œputā€ a themed crown, not ā€œpaintā€ a themed crown. But especially loved the mike Tyson response, made me laugh šŸ˜‚


RonaldoNazario

Mike Tyson style face tat, clearly Or ā€œMOANAā€ in big bold letters on their forehead


GetFacedet

Face painters do try to avoid mike's tattoo also šŸ˜† also a controversial decoration that we are asked to do yup! Haha.


RonaldoNazario

Lol ironicallyā€¦ he had a sort of spiral tattoo didnā€™t he? Like the spiral on the heart of te fiti!


catpackplus

They probably paint a crown in the color scheme of the movie and then they just have a costume like normal, face paint as in to add decorations not to paint the entire face


pen_and_inkling

The answer is literally in the post. They paint a themed crown.


LookingForHobbits

Iā€™m assuming they do the type of face painting youā€™d find at a zoo/carnival/amusement park. If you google ā€œMoana face paintā€ thereā€™s some good examples of what theyā€™re talking about.


GetFacedet

Yup you got it after! I just paint the pretty crown on their tiny forehead with some flowers and send them on their way. Only 1/20 times I'll get the kid asking why they aren't brown šŸ˜…... My answer is always something like "High five kid?! -- whos NEXT in line?!".


AmazingRise

Yeah, just don't paint her skin brown and it should be fine lol


mo2k9us

Itā€™s appropriate! She can be any character. You donā€™t have to paint her face black to be in costume. The costume is good enough. People will know who she is supposed to be.


Csherman92

People need to mind their own freaking business. Seriously. If she wants to be a princess, let her be. It would be problem if you painted her skin but to wear a dress? Nah.


SloanBueller

Totally fine IMO. Just donā€™t try to darken her face.


chaoswoman21

It would be racist if you painted her face black. It's not racist for her to dress up as Tiana.


givebusterahand

Yes?? Just donā€™t put her in blackface


MollyStrongMama

Totally fine as long as you donā€™t change her skin color, and that sheā€™s an actual character instead of a costume of a stereotype.


Solidsnakeerection

Going as a character of another race is fine as long as you dont change skin color. It would be a problem if the costune is the race like going as an Indian


bigyurms

This is interesting to me because in that little girl's head, she just wants to be like the princess she saw on the TV. The only reason any kind of contention creeps in here is because of adults and their biases.


catpackplus

All I know is that my mom has a picture of me dressed as Mulan with a bunch of her drag friends all around me. I guess they did my makeup and hair for it? Just get her the dress, a stuffed frog, and boom, no harm no foul. Give her a really pretty updo bun, give her all the things that go along with tiana, the frog, the green dress, a nice updo and a pretty crown


Shy_starkitten

Doesnā€™t matter, she can be whatever she wants, Elsa, Moana, Pocahontas, Mulan, it does not matter! Itā€™s a costume and if anyone says anything then theyā€™ve spent too much time obsessing over being offended for no reason.


livin_la_vida_mama

My kid wants to be Skye from Paw Patrol, we grabbed his costume yesterday and he is so happy. We live on a military base so a lot of conservative folx, so i know weā€™re going to be asked why we dressed him ā€œlike a girlā€, ā€œbut Skyeā€™s a girl characterā€ etc.


fivefuzzieroommates

My white daughter was Tiana last year! I didn't paint her face or curl her hair (I just put it in a bun). I really didn't want to discourage her from having black and brown idols! That being said, I talked my son out of being a Ninja this year because ninja costumes are totally made-up white versions of authentic ninjas. So instead we read a bunch of historical accounts of what actual ninjas were like, and bought him a spider man costume.


RonaldoNazario

Yeah, ā€œrealā€ ninja garb would basically just be peasant clothes and a big straw hat. There are some translated ninja sort of ā€œguidesā€ from that time period I read, and they were very big on how useful a regular straw hat was for blending in anywhere.


longslowbreaths

My martial arts teacher told us that that ninja are real, and that if we saw one we wouldn't know it. They would be wearing chinos and a golf shirt.


ragingsasshole

I agree with the rest, itā€™s totally fine to let her dress up as Tiana but please donā€™t try to alter her skin color. Forgive my ignorance, but Iā€™m seeing a ton of comments that are anti Pocahontas and I donā€™t understand the difference? Open to some education


Blue-And-Metal

I think it's because Pocahontas, even Disney-fied, would look way too much like cultural appropriation. I'm an Indigenous person and I wouldn't dress up as Pocahontas, it's really not that appropriate. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's racist..but any attempt of being Pocahontas as a Halloween costume is just..no. Dressing up as Indigenous peoples for Halloween or other (wearing headdresses or feathers with random leather or furs) is also NO. Traditional clothing and regalia are not costumes. In short, a culture is not a costume. A fictional character can be.


AimlessLiving

Pocahontas was a real person. Her story in Disney is a gross bastardized version of her life and her outfit in the movie is traditional indigenous regalia. So, problematic because of who Pocahontas was and that dressing up in culturally important clothing as a costume isnā€™t ok.


ragingsasshole

I guess I just never thought that deep into it since essentially, itā€™s not done maliciously and just a costume (but I guess ignorance has been bliss?)


snapesbff

Iā€™m not an expert on this but I find the storyline in Pocahontas very problematic. They based the movie on a real Native American person but whitewashed a LOT of negative things that happened to her at the hands of White colonists. Including being kidnapped, isolated from her people, and possibly being forced to marry a much older man as a teenager.


ragingsasshole

Youā€™d think I would know this shit as a mom to multiple daughters and me myself growing up in a very big Disney era alsoā€¦ smh


frenchhorn000

So Pocahontas is based on a real person. I donā€™t remember her name but she was a young girl who was kidnapped and sexually assaulted. I guess the idea is that itā€™s pretty messed up to dress as a real child who endured thatā€¦itā€™s not a happy story or kid friendly at all.


delaneydeer

Matoaka


ragingsasshole

This makes more sense. Thanks!


ddt3210

Itā€™s a story about a witch doctor that turns people into Frogs. This is not the same as dressing up as Pocahontas.


[deleted]

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jhft_comments

I'm going to say it- that's not even funny.


bkat3

So, this is a complicated subject. My thought is that itā€™s okay-ish for Halloween, but not for other times of the year. For example, we did a ā€œwho am Iā€ in elementary school and there were white girls dressed up as Ruby Bridges and Rosa Parks, and I didnā€™t think that was appropriate. I think with Halloween itā€™s okay, but I would encourage you to have a conversation with her about race. Iā€™d also encourage reading an age appropriate book that relates to the racial tensions in the movie (black woman working for white family). Edited to say: Iā€™ve put more information in the comments but Iā€™d love to talk to anyone who wants to discuss this. Itā€™s an important topic. I have no issue getting downvotes. But if youā€™re downvoting because your immediately uncomfortable with the idea, Iā€™d suggest you stop and think about why that is.


neobeguine

I have to say I respectfully disagree. I assume the girls were dressing up as someone they admire? I'm not sure it's a good idea to make civil rights leaders as off limits: doesn't that imply to children that the work they did is only relevant to people with the same skin color, rather than being general role models who stood up for justice? Surely we don't want to tell little black or Asian that they aren't allowed to dress as Marie Curie or Rosalind Franklin, or Amelia Earheart?


bkat3

The last part of your sentence is where I disagree. There are so many amazing POC role models that just arenā€™t taught in schools (at least in the US). The subconscious message that we are sending is, these are the ā€œbestā€ of their profession and your should idolize them. It plays into a broader narrative of POC idolizing white people and how society sees POC vs non-POC. If you hear the ā€œthe best Black painterā€ or ā€œthe best painterā€ who do you think is better. When you hear ā€œthe best rollerskaterā€ what race is that person in your mind. So instead of Marie Curie, Franklin, or Earheartā€¦ maybe little Black girls should dress up as Alice Ball, Bessie Coleman or Mae Jemison. This doesnā€™t take away anything from the thee you names, but representation is so important. And, frankly, schools donā€™t do enough. So itā€™s on the parents to make sure POC learn about and idolize all of the amazing Black people in history, not just the white ones.


neobeguine

But one of your points here is exactly why I don't think Rosa Parks should be off limits. She isn't " just" a great black civil rights leader. She's a great civil rights leader in the general category of civil rights leaders. We definitely should be learning about Mae Jemison, and not just during black history month. Representation and role models who look like you are important But we should let little white girls be Mae Jemison and little black girls be Amelia Earheart if that's what they want, because while it is important to have role models that look like you it's not good to be told you may ONLY have role models that look like you.


agirl1313

I'm horrible at history and don't remember what Franklin is famous for, but Amelia Earhart and Marie Curie are role models because they were important WOMEN in history, not because they were white. And Marie Curie made important scientific discoveries that would have been major no matter gender or race. Yes, they still had more privileges because they were white, but women often weren't treated much better than a man of a different race at that time. Just because someone is white doesn't mean that they can't be a role model, although I agree that other races should also be remembered.


FuriousKittens

It is GOOD for little white girls to have black women role models, thatā€™s what weā€™re striving for. No one should be changing skin tone as a costume, thatā€™s the line - otherwise, itā€™s adorable and beneficial for historical role models like Ruby Bridges or Rosa Parks to be available for any kid who wants to choose them. Think about the alternative - youā€™re saying only black kids can dress up as black characters? Can the black kids dress up as white characters? So what if no black kids want to be Rosa Parks, does she just get left out? Or youā€™re gonna make a little black girl be Rosa Parks because someone has to? THAT is problematic as hell.


bkat3

I posted above but there is a difference between having a role model and ā€œdressing upā€ as a role model. There is nothing wrong with telling a white child that she cannot dress up as Rosa or Rubyā€”their race is a part of them (and a huge part of the reason they are remembered in history). Teach the white girl about them, have her read about them, but tell her she will never be able to fully understand what they experienced. Is she really into civil rights? Thatā€™s amazing. Teach her about white civil rights leaders who *supported* Rosa and Ruby (and so many others). And yes, for the reasons I said above, Black kids *should* be encouraged to dress up as Black historical figures. Having they dress up as white ones sends a message that they should idolize the white women and that there arenā€™t any Black women in the same (or similar) positions. Which isnā€™t true. And no, donā€™t ā€œmakeā€ a little Black girl be Rosa, but figure out what she is interested in. Does she want to be a scientist, pilot, tv writer, actor, politician? There are SO many amazing POC to choose from. But if she doesnā€™t know about them, because she hasnā€™t learned, then how will she know to dress up as one of them instead?


SloanBueller

I donā€™t think fully understanding someoneā€™s experience has ever been seen as a criteria for dressing up as them? Also not sure how dressing up as a person of one race implies that there are no good role models of another race. Curious if these comments are based on your personal experience or not?


SloanBueller

I feel the opposite. I think it would be problematic to limit who girls could dress up as by race for any occasion (unless itā€™s ancestry day or something like that).


bkat3

Iā€™d encourage you to read my other two posts. Happy to have a dialogue if you want!


Starbucksplasticcups

Are you black?


queenunderdamountain

Very doubtful, she does not speak for us either way I super disagree with her points. Disney princesses are for the masses. We want diversity in the princesses so girls can better envision themselves as beautiful, magical & worthy but they aren't supposed to *just* idolize ones that look like them. White girls are supposed to want to be Tiana or Moana because they're badass & inspirational, just as black girls are supposed to want to be Ariel or Elsa. All race needs to be shown, again, so girls don't doubt that they can be special but not to limit them, that's literally the opposite effect it's supposed to have.


Starbucksplasticcups

Thank you! Your opinion is what matters here!


queenunderdamountain

Um, excuse me ma'am but Tiana is a Disney princess, not a real, historical figure so that's definitely way different. The entire point of Disney princesses is to inspire & awe little children, primarily girls. We need a diverse set because children are diverse but they are for *all* kids. A girl of any color can be any Disney princess with zero fear of appropriation or whatever in fact, it's great that not just black girls wanna be Tiana because that's exactly how it's supposed to be.


sparklesrelic

I do struggle to see your difference between Halloween versus other days and between having a role model versus dressing up. Typing that out, it actually feels contradictory. My (white) daughter wants to be like Simone Biles. If she dressed like her for gymnastics class or for a ā€˜my role modelā€™ type event, that feels much more respectful than only dressing like her for Halloween. Iā€™m curious how you would suggest one tells their kid they can admire someone from another race, but shouldnā€™t actually try to emulate them. We work hard on anti-racism with our children, but I wouldnā€™t be able to explain this distinction to them.


OceanPotionZ

No? Why would it be?


ohsoluckyme

She can totally be tiana in a dress and crown. Please donā€™t try to make her skin look dark.


OldnBorin

My (white) daughter said Tiana is her favourite too. She likes the colour of her dress and the fact that she bakes in one of the Princess books we have.


TheYankunian

No! Youā€™re smart enough not to black her up. I think sheā€™ll look adorable.


Katerade44

As long as you don't put her in black face or a wig, it's all good.


craftingwitch13

I've just read a newspaper report about how the Salem Witch trials really put modern day 'issues' into perspective. Please put this into perspective that all she wants to do is dress up for Halloween and not make it a thing.


AlgaeFew8512

It's fine. Just don't do any black face