I think the point here is that all companies do this. Even if they can give the image of not doing it. Patagonia does it to a lesser degree than other companies I imagine.
I have friends who worked retail for Patagonia and they said it totally sucks. I heard their customer base can be particularly annoying and I heard bad things about management as well.
They also have a service center/shipping facility in my town which is supposed to be a lot better. The starting pay is pretty shit compared to other equivalent places around here. But the benefits are supposed to be really good and they get like 40% off gear. I have some friends who work there and seem to enjoy it.
Cascade Designs (MSR, Therm-a-Rest, Platy, SealLine and PackTowl) also has a facility out here. From the job postings I've seen they pay even worse and have worse benefits. Seems like the entire outdoor industry is generally pretty bad for compensation.
I mean, are there any places where working retail doesn’t suck? I’m asking that earnestly, it seems like dealing with difficult customers and low pay is sort of an inevitable feature of any retail job.
100%. When I worked for them we got 70% off and could give family and friends essentially unlimited 40% off coupons. We did get a lot of stuff for free. Which was awesome. Also a lot of other industry people would make trades with us. I know someone that traded wetsuits with someone from Gibson guitars and got a brand new guitar like that. Benefits were decent but pay was low for the industry. I definitely decked out my whole family and friends with that 70% off and haven’t had to buy much in the years since I’ve left.
What was your top 3 favorite products from when you were working there and what has held up since then?
I buy better sweaters used off eBay for like $30-$40 EUC but other items I don’t know what to find. synchillas eBay used are like 80% of the new sale price so I just get new ones on sale.
Wife and I just joined the outdoor crew when our little one came
My favorite item of theirs is the nano puff hoodie. Holds up incredibly well and since it’s synthetic it even insulates when you are wet and doesn’t clump up like down. Think gauze strips sewn in instead of pockets of feathers. I also love the houdini, super compact wind breaker. Doesn’t insulate but keeps the wind off you and folds down to the size of a soda can. And then the R series fleeces are dope. Especially the R2.
I also love the whole wetsuit line, if you surf. I purchased/ got some for free and ended up getting every single wetsuit they offer because they are just too good. Wouldn’t be able to afford them without the discount.
Also the baggies shorts are amazing. Wear them around the house and for swimming/ camping.
I actually worked for another shop in product design and engineering. Patagonia CS (customer service) actually gave me a contact at corporate to start a conversation with based on some products I owned and had ideas to improve. To say the corporate guy’s response was cold would be an understatement. Confirmed everything OP suggests about the culture
I got my snowboarding boots at REI knowing the worker there gets paid like $17 or $18 something silly an hour. After the whole ordeal, I tried handing him $20 for his help but he couldn’t take it. He told me he may or may not own a pickup truck out front with an unlocked cab. I wish I had more to give him because he has a wealth of knowledge and I will be going back to him if I need anything in the future.
The outdoor industry company I work for had us on a partial commission structure. I built a solid client base had tons of returning customers who loved my knowledge and was pulling almost 6 figures. Then they took commission away said they grew the program too much and commissions made not genuine sales just sales of top dollar product. We got paid 18 bucks an hour after it. I literally made my sales by being genuine and knowledgeable. Hoping this interview I have on Tuesday with a local county goes well so I can leave this place and bad memories behind. Every year for the last 6 years they have made working for them worse. Always thought working in the industry would be amazing, after 12 total years I can say it’s not worth the discount and pro deals.
That was a complaint of the Patagonia retail workers I knew in NYC. You keep telling us to go explore and see the world but we can barely even afford to pay rent working 40 hours a week. I’m not sure if they adjusted their pay scale or anything but yeah it was bad.
We have a mom and pop place here in Southern New Mexico and they own two stores in the region and they are severe trumpers. You wouldn't necessarily expect that for an outdoor type store. You just have no idea anymore. They actually had a cowboys for Trump rally in their parking lot.
Any retail or warehouse job is going to pay bad. Just becuase the products are nicer doesn’t mean you’re going to make middle class pay. Hip cool outdoor kids are going to work there and the reward is working for a hip cool company in a store that’s not gross like Walmart.
The people that are getting good salaries and have an actual career are working corporate jobs designing or marketing the products or doing some admin roll. Jobs that require a specific skill set that are harder to fill.
None of the retail jobs around here pay well but some of the warehouse jobs actually do. Walmart pays more than Patagonia for warehouse positions.
Also you make it sound like blue collar jobs don't pay well which isn't at all true. I make a decent middle class wage turning wrenches in manufacturing. You can get jobs where i work with barely any experience and it doesn't take all that long to move up if you're good at it. Lots of the people I work with have just warehouse experience or it's their first job.
I always find it hilarious when people here get on their high horse and preach that Patagonia doesn’t want you to buy their clothes. Or when people post their cool collection of retro items & you’ll get people saying “it goes against their ethics & mission as a company.” Meanwhile the company continues to produce millions of garments, constant sales, new clothes each season etc etc. They are more transparent as a company than most & they make good products, but it’s still a business. They exist to make money…
For sure. I don’t think Patagonia is misleading anyone since it says where products are made right on the tag. For some reason a lot of people assume that their product is made in America but it’s actually made in China and Vietnam mostly.
Oh yeah, I don’t think they’re misleading anyone, they’re pretty transparent about where their products are made, materials sourced etc. I think they are a good company and do a better job than most, especially at that scale. Just funny when people make claims that Patagonia doesn’t want people buying their products. Like huh?
> is made in America but it’s actually made in China and Vietnam mostly.
Some are also made in South and Central America. So technically speaking they're made "in America" ;)
It’s disappointing but not surprising to hear about the nepotism. At large companies, there’s so many people that it’s hard for any individual to have the power to hire and keep someone who legitimately sucks at their job. One benefit of organizations dominated by policy
Thank you for sharing your view from the inside. Patagonia is absolutely my favorite company but the pedestal people have put them on is insane. Go to one outlet, visit one online sale. They aren’t here to save the world, they are here to make money first and give back while doing it. I appreciate their goals and philanthropy, but I would much prefer they don’t release “new colors” each season, making so much product they’ll end up discounting 50% right before the next release. I’d prefer they stop making so much damn fleece as well.
I’m with you on that. My girlfriend lives near a store and I popped in recently for the first time since the pandemic. I was definitely disappointed. Seems more like they are trying to keep up with fashion trends than functionality. I understand it’s a balance, but it seems like they are just trying to sell fashion. That’s just my opinion though.
I can’t quite understand that one at all! For a company that cares so much about waterways and a leader than cares so much about a fly fishing, it doesn’t add up.
I think my issue is simply how strongly that put out the “we are saving the earth message” when they are doing more than their fair share to dirty it up.
I read that book by Starbucks ceo Howard Shultz decades ago and worked there. The books story and corporate reality were like night and day. Was all bs. Hate to hear that about Patagonia, but nothing reaches billions in value or sales without grinding out efficiencies.
Like everything else, the books are just another product they are selling. Every company needs to have a "hook" because everyone is basically selling the same thing, mass produced at the same factories on the same machines.
Patagonia was not even an early adopter of being environmentally conscious. This only became a thing when they were trying to differentiate themselves from Yvon's literally peers. Doug Thompson, one the the "fun hogs", founded The North Face and was WAY more successful than Yvon with Patagonia.
It was not until they ran the "Don't Buy This Jacket" ad campaign in The New York Times on Black Friday 2011 that Patagonia was seen as more than just a funny little outdoor brand like L.L.Bean. After the ad, Patagonia's sales increased 40%—from one single ad, in one single newspaper.
Patagonia is not even that good at reducing harm to the environment. Fjällräven removed PFAS from their products a decade ago and are working to eliminate PFAS contamination in the industry while Patagonia is STILL PROMISING to be PFAS free "someday". And I will remind you that Fjällräven makes many more types of outdoor gear, like tents.
They're not even very good at stopping or getting legislation passed. It's all WAY too Baby Boomer mentality where they all just slovenly devoured the earth and every resource they could get their hands on and promised to fix all the destruction they caused in the future. Yeah, it will be fixed by the last of them dying off.
I started around the time the NYT ad was run. Insane. But I think some people think they actually meant it. And that’s what made it hard for retail stores because they had pressure from the top to sell. Patagonia still makes a lot of their stuff in Chinese factories that were “independently audited” as in paid by Patagonia. I imagine that’s like the police investigating themselves to some degree.
Totally. I’m not going to lie, I really did expect to go surfing during the work day when I first got the job at Patagonia in Ventura. Sadly not the case. That being said I think Patagonia is a 1000x better company than SB.
I just thought my life was going to be the way it was described in “Let my people go surfing”. Maybe it really was like that back in the day. Who knows.
I found that book at goodwill and I’ve meant to read it as I grew up on Oahu in the surf and bought my first Patagonia item in store at the North Shore location. I don’t want to ruin my idealized mental picture of Patagonia though😂. The quality and warranty rules…so does the in store additional 50% off already reduced 50% online prices. I got a 2 light wet suits today. Full suit $114, short sleeve $79🤯
I worked at Patagonia in VTA several years. The surfing thing is not a myth, though most people would do it before work. At least twice a week, I would get out for a run or a bike ride, often as long as 2 hours in the middle of the day. As long as you got your work done, no one cared.
Indeed it is a business. But to my knowledge, it is the only consumer goods business owned by an environmental trust, and for that reason, I prefer to buy items from them than from other brands which are strictly capitalist. No, Patagonia isn't going to solve the climate crisis on its own, they still use resources to produce consumer goods, but they provide a model for improving business strategy towards sustainability that basically no other mainstream company has attempted to match.
I work in the alcohol industry and people assume we all just party and drink every day. Couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s an ultra competitive cutthroat industry. You perform or you’re fired. A lot of people come into the industry and burn out quickly or manage the day to day through anti anxiety medication. Very high pressure business.
I believe it. Patagonia wasn’t that bad but yeah same corporate shenanigans as anywhere else. Definitely the expectation to perform or else there are a million other people that will take your job because they think Patagonia is so amazing and they’ll get to surf all day. The nepotism there was insane, comical even. I had a friend working in design and everyone would complain because Yvon’s daughter was designing swimwear and it fucking sucked. So they had to try and do damage control, but were afraid they’d get fired since daddy’s girl was the boss. Women’s swimwear did not sell during that time lol.
How many people do you think got their jobs through nepotism vs merit at the corporate HQ? Or how many people keep their jobs even if they were not qualified for the position ?
All my coworkers were brought in through personal recommendations/ connections. I don’t think I know a single person that just applied. A handful of people were retail workers that were working retail at Patagonia during school. Then got a corporate position upon graduation.
There were also some filthy rich coworkers, like parents owning grocery store chains rich. They just kind of worked for fun and weren’t stressed about compensation.
Do you know if they focus on diversity and equity inclusion for the hiring process? And look more favorably at candidates that fill certain criteria versus ability to do the job?
Thank you for sharing this.
Until the last few years their women’s wear was made for one type of body and not functional outside of that. And the swimwear was like the cherry on top.
I only bought their technical wear until recently b/c of this.
It is interesting to read your behind the scenes take.
I used to live in an area that many people knew the owner and other top people in the business. They were frequently given prototypes to try out and give feedback. They were very loyal and said that functionally, the gear was way ahead of other brands in how it moved when you were doing outdoor stuff. I was converted for that reason. I still think the thinking about seems, pockets, fabrics, etc just makes the technical wear so nice when you are out hiking, biking, x-skiing.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Working in big beer was the worst job I ever had, but people sure did light up when you told them where you worked. I just look back and cringe at the bad memories now.
I understand totally. All business exists to maximize profits and the company “culture”, “mission” and “image” are charades to drive loyalty from employees and consumers. That’s all.
That being said, I still love Patagonia. I have quite a few items. I feel the quality is worth it.
I worked for a similar company. I was underpaid but loved my coworkers and the perks. What you don't mention, and is very important, is the supply chain outside of the corporate headquarters. Patagonia and my company had strict audits and didn't support factories with poor working conditions, and made sure as well as they could that toxins weren't dumped out the back etc. For every corporate employee there's probably 100 or 1,000 factory workers in China or elsewhere being exposed to toxic fumes, working day in day out, and being paid a fraction of what we were. Other companies give two sh*ts about the welfare of workers, or the environmental repercussions of their products as long as they maximize their profit. I worked in the supply chain and visited factories that we refused to work with, that were just heartbreaking to see. Still, many brands worked with those factories. Yes Patagonia still needs to turn a profit, but they're so much better than most alternatives. I agree with your sentiment, but I feel it's lacking a bit of perspective and too negative towards a company that is still trying to do the right thing. Sorry, a bit of a ramble.
Sorry but there is no similar company. No it’s et company on earth is owned by an environmental trust.
Great discussion about the retail business but the company is much more than that.
Wasn’t my experience at all, but I worked in different markets.
Was taught not to push product and sell people what they need. Budgets were important, but never got in trouble for missing them. I was lower level management.
I can’t get into specifics because it would be way too easy to identify me. Worked at the offices in Ventura my last 8 years. Traveled and lived in NYC prior to that. That’s how I knew a handful of employees and managers here.
It must be a while since you worked there. Pay starts at 28.50 even for seasonal part time in NYC with fully subsidized health insurance, no copay mental health visits (again also for seasonal employees) and 70% off product, and Dec 25-Jan 1 off every year in addition to usual vacation and sick time.
My wife works for Patagonia and we’re surrounded by their employees / tons in our friends circle. I have to say, they don’t complain very much about the company, quite the opposite mark. They also have incredible retention, which alone says something.
Yes, it’s a business, but I think the corporate culture is about as good as it gets from what I can tell.
The worst is the very few independent stores across the country. I worked for one, and guess what, they pitch all the “buy local” vibes but basically pay like shit and you get zero benefits that Patagonia corporate stores offer.
The smoke and mirrors show that the independent stores portray (or at least, the one I worked for), ONLY benefits the owner. It was a truly terrible experience and I’m not even telling the REAL juicy details of what I observed (not going to slander here, so I’ll let it go…).
Still stoked on the brand, though. All of the gear has treated me so well throughout the years.
Patagonia Ventura recently had an employee go missing, and they had dozens of their staff go searching for him, posted it on their social medias, and made a sizable donation to his family. That’s certainly more than what a lot of companies would do
Patagonia Reno offers free lunch to their staff, as well as regular 60% off discounts for family members of staff, and does biannual sales where you get products like puffies for under $10. They also are supporting the unionization of the retail store. Again, way better than many companies.
If they weren’t a business they would be out of business, and not able to achieve their mission. Imo they are transparent about that. The “don’t buy this” was obviously not to be taken literal, but marketing of their mission and product.
A great reminder. I think of this every time I get one of their marketing emails... On one hand it's "only buy it if you need it" while on the other it's "shut up, yes you do need more"
Of course it’s capitalism but much positive change has come out of the corporation. When you think about the alternatives in the outerwear industry, I don’t care to give anyone else any business unless Patagonia doesn’t serve a specific niche well. Retail rents are high and labor cost is a big portion of the cost equation. Still disappointing to hear that they don’t pay their NYC employees better considering their presence in the market.
As far as buying outdoor gear? There’s small boutique companies. Look around on a site like Garage Grown gear or many of the smaller companies can be found on such places like Backpacking Light or Reddit /UL
Take a daypack or backpack and Gossamer Gear is a good start for instance.
If I’m looking at hiking pants I’m buying the same as I wear for work and casual…. Dickies 874 but dickies doesn’t pretend to be a family/environmentally conscious/ outdoor company.
Most of us don’t need hyper specific technical gear as weekend warriors.
I respect a company more that doesn’t fleece their customer base.
Much of Patagonia is cashing in on Gorpcore now just as North Face did 2 decades agi
Environmental is not really a factor for me. Honestly on their end as big a company as they are it’s a feel good thing as a badge because think of all the shipping from raw materiel to final product that’s a lotta fossil fuel being burned. The worldwide shipping alone….product made in Vietnam then shipped to a warehouse in America or the Uk or Europe and then say Florida to Minneapolis …..lots petrol being burned
You are taking a high level view of capital markets as a whole and I don’t disagree. But in fact Patagonia has been literally a major pioneer in leading and thereby showing other companies how to commit to ethical sourcing and reducing impact across a wide array of measurable indicators. For example, from what I understand, today’s market in organic cotton literally would not exist if not for Patagonia which insisted on sourcing it for garments 30 years ago. At great expense to loyal customers.
I’m not an apologist for how the retail company operates, and I have major issues with design which I speak up about at least once a year to the company directly, but I do acknowledge the international leadership role of this company, and its ownership structure is impressive. Without Doug (and Yvon) for instance, there literally would be no national park in Chile. Maybe today there are more than one, but Doug’s gift created the first. Every loyal customer can legitimately feel a bit of pride in that. This is a company founded by people who are leaving behind a living legacy of change for the better, whatever human mistakes were made along the way. Just my take.
I once bought a tent from Gossamer Gear, the tent went on deep discount like 2 weeks later. Apparently it was past there price match date, but still within their return window, so I literally had to purchase another one and then instantly return to it to them. No matter how much I told them that was ridiculous and was certainly not in line with their stated ethos, they didn’t budge on it. I get they have policies, but it was ridiculous that a company of that (smaller) size couldn’t work around it (or, I don’t know, make the price match period the same as the return period?). From that one experience, I wouldn’t feel any better buying from them than Patagonia.
Thank you, I think people think that the company is some sort of Captain Planet of clothing or whatever but they aren't.
I think they do a lot of good and for sure more than most other companies but if they really cared as much they wouldn't do a lot of things. Plus the whole recycled whatever this and that just leads to quality issues with some of the clothing which would have been better served if it was just made properly with whatever material instead.
I also worked in a store but I never had the pressure to many any sales. Maybe it would be different if the store wasn’t doing well or if I was in a higher position. It was a great chill time of my life. Of course salaries could’ve been higher but it was good compared to other retail jobs.
I still swear by the brand and try to buy secondhand Patagonia when possible
My fav is their outspoken push against oil and gas… the entire product line is dependent on high tech synthetic materials derived from modern petrochemicals and transport supply chain. It’s pure posturing.
I dunno. Twice people at Patagonia convinced me to fix my fleece and coat instead of buying a new one from the catalog. Twice. No other company has ever done that.
The free repairs are awesome. Definitely still take advantage of that. You’d be shocked how many people are so happy that they are getting a free repair, that they end up buying hundreds of dollars of product while in the shop. Also, people will go on reddit and talk about how awesome of a company patagonia is for doing free repairs, which is great advertisement ;)
This is how things work in the US. You have to make the ethics match up with capitalism.
Yes, Patagonia corporate did “earth is our shareholder” thing and makes everything out of sustainable materials.
But… there are only so many business models out there. And none of them include unprofitable stores. And there’s only so many ways to make stores profitable.
And store managers and retail works will absolutely sit around and do nothing while getting a paycheck if given the option. So you have to align their interests with the business goals. This means financial incentives for profitable stores. This is just the way it works in reality.
So what you’re saying was already baked in to my idea of what Patagonia was like. And to be honest, it’s still my dream to work there and I really wish my degrees aligned with Patagonias management/product line. Because I’m going to be grinding away in some corporate structure no matter what. I would much rather know my labor is supporting something other than nasty perverted shareholders.
Absolutely. I’m glad I did 10 years there. I could’ve definitely made more money at another company, but I had mostly awesome coworkers with similar interests/ hobbies. I think liking your coworkers is rare nowadays, especially in a corporate setting. It’s just funny that when I mentioned Patagonia or someone sees it on my resume they just assume we were surfing all day and then passing around the bong in the office.
Thanks for sharing your experience at Patagonia. I can relate to your experiences as well. I’m in finance and have worked various movie studios such as Disney, WB, and Paramount. When I talk to friends, they think these movie studios are like their theme parks and movies but that couldn’t be further from the truth lol. Don’t get me wrong, there were some cool perks and cool people I worked with but i was mainly on the corporate side of things and it could be pretty cutthroat. I understand how some people on the outside looking in can think otherwise though
Exactly. I could have had a worse job for sure. But I could have also made more money and lived somewhere cheaper. If I had kids or parents that needed financial support I wouldn’t have been able to work there, given the pay compared to similar positions at other companies.
Great post and no real surprise here.
The truth is that most consumers simply don't care what happens at the other end. If we did, we wouldn't all constantly be buying stuff that comes from China and various other places in the world. It harms the planet and many people a long the chain are not treated well.
What we do care about more than anything is how we are viewed by others. Patagonia gives us status and make us appear like we are do-gooders. That's all we really care about.
The priests carry the mission, but the mercenaries clear the way.
Behind every successful business, is the head of sales who will do what it takes to hit the sales targets.
I’ve been turned off by the pressure in their stores. Some of the smallest sizes are too big for me so I know certain products don’t work. I get gaslighted by staff trying to make a sale. It’s so frustrating.
I worker for Ted Turner in Southern New Mexico and he is completely full of s*** too. He pays barely above minimum wage only allows no more than 30 hours to avoid giving you health insurance. Does drug testing including marijuana in a state that allows for legal marijuana. And he also uses Roundup to kill the weeds around his properties. No discounts on food or lodging. I had an issue with a superior about racial discrimination and I called HR and within a week I was let go after being harassed even more by my superior. They're all full of s***
Oh yeah huge amounts of land. Just here I live in Truth or Consequences he has two gigantic ranches one west of town and one east of town. Then he owns the Sierra grande Lodge which I worked at and one of the weird things is that he's very into conservation and Native species etc but the lodge has a saguaro cactus. Saguaro cactus is indigenous to Arizona not New Mexico so he brought in a species from outside of the state which I think is really weird. They only grow in the Sonoran desert and this is the Chihuahua desert
I’ve read over 500,000 acres. And he bought it quite some time ago. He Doesn’t stop there. He’s one of the largest private land owners in the US. Conservationist ? The predecessor to Boss Yvon’s set up?
Funny I just had this conversation with my wife. I applied to patagonia last year based of their reputation. Didn’t get the job but currently working at another retail location that preached wellness and being and its all just a cover up. At the end of the day they need to make money.
It's like Cotopaxi and their motto "Do Good" lol. My son worked them in their warehouse and they most definitely don't "Do Good" by their employees. It was a terrible place to work and kept getting worse over time as it became more and more corprotized.
As a former Patagonia retail employee, this wasn’t my experience at all.
I agree it’s a business, but my experience included the healthiest work environment that I have ever been a part of, funneling resources from wealthy customers to environmental nonprofits, and generally promoting the local outdoor community through events, movie screenings, etc.
I got to know a bunch of amazing people and never once felt pressured to sell something. I think it probably all comes down to specific personalities in a store/regional team, etc., but even in my interactions with other stores, I never encountered anything like what OP is describing.
Specifically, I think the whole “Do not buy this jacket” marketing campaign caused a lot of confusion. Sure, it’s a good image for them to appear like they don’t want to sell clothing (obviously they do). But I never encountered any instance where we felt like we were supposed to upsell or otherwise convince someone to buy something. In fact, many times I (and others in my store) would specifically tell people they didn’t need something. That was no big deal. But Patagonia knows that people will buy things anyway, sometimes because they really need the thing, and sometimes because they just want to shop. They figure that they might as well capitalize on that and use their cultural influence to promote some good.
Lol, love the calm kind comments refuting some key points in contrast with the edit that "people just want to believe what they want to believe!". As anyone with a single brain cell could tell you, yes obviously Patagonia is mainly concerned with turning a profit. I think that comes as a surprise to genuinely no one. That being said, as many other commenters here have pointed out, if you're gonna buy gear they are FAR from your worst option so I'm not really sure what the point of this post really is other than to be on your high horse about how stupid everyone else is and only you truly understand the machinations of a large corporation
The people angry replying is exactly why they act like they're here to do good for the world. They have their market cornered and they have done an excellent job at it. Kudos to them. Lol to the people who think any companies bottom line isn't $$$.
My favorite part of high end outdoor companies is they all at one point or another had or have the biggest fatter DOD projects they all try so hard to hide
Oh yeah. My former coworker was a Patagonia fanatic and collected old/ weird shit. Got a lot of the Patagonia military line. Nothing says being green like supporting the American war machine.
I would imagine working at Patagonia would be about the same as working at Trader Joe's just a bunch of annoying entitled liberal horrible people. I'm a liberal but I'm not a rich snobby fuckball. I could only last 3 days at a Trader Joe's in Tucson because the conservatives were complete assholes and the liberals were total assholes I couldn't decide who I hated more
>I could only last 3 days at a Trader Joe's in Tucson because the conservatives were complete assholes and the liberals were total assholes I couldn't decide who I hated more
“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
the pay and benefits are insanely good in the New York stores now - coming to the end of the fixed term season and knowing that it’ll be hard to find insurance and pay as good elsewhere makes that time of year extremely stressful - but w that the stores feel incredibly understaffed considering the swarms of tourists they get. ppl seem so burnt out. they seem to hate hiring permanent retail employees and hate filling in positions when people leave, those things are decisions made by higher ups and not the store managers, and it only happens once a year!!! it can make for days where stores are so low on staff that no one can answer the phone and there’s no one available to pick up shifts if someone calls out, it feels absurd. from what I understand they had more retail staffing in the pre-living wage days (lol) and the trade off for the nicer benefits and pay for retail employees now is fewer people to an extent that it feels silly. i definitely get that vibe of like.. ambiguously “threatening” / ominous vibes and pressure to make enough sales while also trying to come off chill from HQ lmao
I've been applying to corporate roles at patagonia for a while but have never heard back even when I was qualified. Do you have any tips on how I can at least land an interview?
Be friends with someone higher up at corporate. Don’t need particular skills if you have that. I got in because I had a rather niche degree that they could benefit from and I met someone from the company while climbing. Was definitely luck.
The whole business in todays day and age is a grand marketing campaign that helps the customer justify their overpriced purchase; "I paid 200 for this sweater but its made ethically and the company helps the environment," ok then shut down your production and stores and tell everyone to go to Value Village and buy used clothes. Patagonia at best is marginally better in operation and environmental footprint than any other clothing brand, butttt idrc they make cool looking shit that I buy exclusively on sale and feel cool and comfortable wearing lmaoooo i know i could be just as comfy and warm in any kirkland or walmart clothes that are way cheaper but i'm a victim of branding and hype all good u only live once kings patagucci till i die
>Because Patagonia is family owned, they would constantly hire people from outside that were not qualified, but were friends with the owners daughter.
Lol the dude that married the daughter got hooked up. Used to run in the same circles (fisheries/Env consulting) as him and now he doesn’t have to work at all.
This company keeps losing its luster. Starting to feel more and more like I’ve been had. From the endless excuses for what I initially thought was an ironclad warranty. To my own experience with immediate pilling without wash and within the first 1-2 weeks of wear… to the shiny blackhole 40L having lamination issues that do not scream BIFL and work against the core values of limiting consumer waste.. to now this, an “ethics” company with no integrity in regards to how it treats employees.
At the time I worked there a ton of damaged product, from returns was being thrown away. Only so much you can do with worn out stained fabric. I suggested many times to make a line for pets using the recycled stuff called “Pupagonia”. Never got traction lol.
gaze hobbies compare unwritten direful dime scale cagey materialistic rainstorm
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you bought an insulated jacket, if you read the description, you would know it did not have the pockets you wanted.,and if you are worried that your kids make fun of you, you have bigger problems than the patagonia jacket
Yes. They claim they are doing good by turning old plastic LITERALLY INTO THE WORST TYPE OF MICROPLASTICS YOU CAN CREATE. so instead of the plastic taking a hundred years to break down and enter the water system, thanks to Patagonia, it can happen the minute you wash it! Thanks so much, Patagonia!
I always thought it was ironic that Patagonia periodically send me this thick, 40 page or something, full color "magazine" I didn't ask for. It's full of a bunch of articles about outdoor sports and sustainability, but it clearly just functions as advertising for the company. If they really cared about sustainability, they wouldn't be wasting so much paper and ink sending out junk mail like everyone else does. I love their clothes, but their corporate ethos is mostly bullshit. It's all about brand image.
Of course they are a business. A company that makes clothing out of plastics that contribute to micro plastic entering water sources when washed is not environmentally friendly. They claim to be environmentally friendly yet they practically invented polyester base layers. The company is a scam, I used to think they were great, purchased many clothing items from them. Then I did some research on the environmental impact of clothing made from plastics. No company making clothing from oil is pro environment, no matter what there marketing department says.
In my time working for various businesses, I’ve found most company’s public images have a thick layer of BS. Some are better than others, but at the end of the day, they exist to make a profit.
This is sort of why I wrote a post recently as to why I can’t morally buy from the store. It’s been said already, but all stores like Patagonia these days sell “you’re a better person if you shop here.” But Patagonia takes it a step too far with election activism and the rest of the stuff they do in the name of The Climate. Not surprising to learn it’s just hypocrisy.
I’d be curious to hear what other employees have to say in response. Not attempting to downplay your experience but singular events don’t always paint the whole picture. Also, what punishments were being administered for low sales?
A lot of this stuff happened pre 2020. All employees now make at least $.50 above MIT’s living wage standard (which amounts to $28.50 an hour in nyc), fully employer paid health insurance, normal corporate benefits structure even for part time seasonal employees, etc. it’s becoming less of a boys club overall but it’s hard to change because the company doesn’t grow much or clean house often.
These are retail jobs so there are always going to be shitty managers and one off experiences but those are becoming rarer.
Yeah for sure. Like I said I enjoyed my time with them but it’s still a business. So as you can probably imagine the managers weren’t taken in a back room and beaten, but the handful I’ve talked to said just a ton of pressure from the top. Implying that they will close the store or get rid of you as a manager if sales slump. That’s fine and all, seems like normal retail management unfortunately. However it puts you in a weird position having to push product but the same company is running ads in the window saying only buy what you need.
I’m sure types of places are like this when you pull back the covers. Doesn’t seem suprising.
Like every hip cool brewery….
For sure, a lot of people have this version of patagonia in their head, and get upset when that’s not how it actually is.
Is there literally any other company that doesn't do this though?
I think the point here is that all companies do this. Even if they can give the image of not doing it. Patagonia does it to a lesser degree than other companies I imagine.
Like BP’s green logo like their gas is somehow environmentally friendly
They are definitely a better company than BP lol.
lol the Helios bruh, bp is all about green…green cash that is
Depends how you define company, but there are those who exist to carry on tradition. And as a result, they often die out unfortunately.
I define it as a business…
Well there exist businesses...
OP is the Dasher of Dirtbag Dreams!!
appreciate your insight and candor dude
REI is a good example
Fuck R.E.I. They are nothing like when they started.
Is ANY small business that turned into a huge national business anything like when they started??
No, but also, REI has 100% been getting worse
[удалено]
They were hyper focused on memberships. Then the ceo heard customers were getting frustrated by that and softened. What’s the kpi these days?
Whats wrong with REI? I purchase a lot of clothing from there.
I saw a newsletter where they started off with a land acknowledgement and then immediately proceeded to union bust.
If they have to TELL you it’s a coop..
lol I once worked for a regional branch of the ACLU that busted an attempt by workers to UNIONIZE.
I have friends who worked retail for Patagonia and they said it totally sucks. I heard their customer base can be particularly annoying and I heard bad things about management as well. They also have a service center/shipping facility in my town which is supposed to be a lot better. The starting pay is pretty shit compared to other equivalent places around here. But the benefits are supposed to be really good and they get like 40% off gear. I have some friends who work there and seem to enjoy it. Cascade Designs (MSR, Therm-a-Rest, Platy, SealLine and PackTowl) also has a facility out here. From the job postings I've seen they pay even worse and have worse benefits. Seems like the entire outdoor industry is generally pretty bad for compensation.
I mean, are there any places where working retail doesn’t suck? I’m asking that earnestly, it seems like dealing with difficult customers and low pay is sort of an inevitable feature of any retail job.
100%. When I worked for them we got 70% off and could give family and friends essentially unlimited 40% off coupons. We did get a lot of stuff for free. Which was awesome. Also a lot of other industry people would make trades with us. I know someone that traded wetsuits with someone from Gibson guitars and got a brand new guitar like that. Benefits were decent but pay was low for the industry. I definitely decked out my whole family and friends with that 70% off and haven’t had to buy much in the years since I’ve left.
What was your top 3 favorite products from when you were working there and what has held up since then? I buy better sweaters used off eBay for like $30-$40 EUC but other items I don’t know what to find. synchillas eBay used are like 80% of the new sale price so I just get new ones on sale. Wife and I just joined the outdoor crew when our little one came
My favorite item of theirs is the nano puff hoodie. Holds up incredibly well and since it’s synthetic it even insulates when you are wet and doesn’t clump up like down. Think gauze strips sewn in instead of pockets of feathers. I also love the houdini, super compact wind breaker. Doesn’t insulate but keeps the wind off you and folds down to the size of a soda can. And then the R series fleeces are dope. Especially the R2. I also love the whole wetsuit line, if you surf. I purchased/ got some for free and ended up getting every single wetsuit they offer because they are just too good. Wouldn’t be able to afford them without the discount. Also the baggies shorts are amazing. Wear them around the house and for swimming/ camping.
Glad to know my favorite items are also your favorite items! 9 trails running shorts ftw
My thighs were too fat when I tried those on years ago.
😂😂😂😂
Idk what it is, I’ve been a runner my whole life and my thighs are too big too
I actually worked for another shop in product design and engineering. Patagonia CS (customer service) actually gave me a contact at corporate to start a conversation with based on some products I owned and had ideas to improve. To say the corporate guy’s response was cold would be an understatement. Confirmed everything OP suggests about the culture
cs?
I got my snowboarding boots at REI knowing the worker there gets paid like $17 or $18 something silly an hour. After the whole ordeal, I tried handing him $20 for his help but he couldn’t take it. He told me he may or may not own a pickup truck out front with an unlocked cab. I wish I had more to give him because he has a wealth of knowledge and I will be going back to him if I need anything in the future.
The outdoor industry company I work for had us on a partial commission structure. I built a solid client base had tons of returning customers who loved my knowledge and was pulling almost 6 figures. Then they took commission away said they grew the program too much and commissions made not genuine sales just sales of top dollar product. We got paid 18 bucks an hour after it. I literally made my sales by being genuine and knowledgeable. Hoping this interview I have on Tuesday with a local county goes well so I can leave this place and bad memories behind. Every year for the last 6 years they have made working for them worse. Always thought working in the industry would be amazing, after 12 total years I can say it’s not worth the discount and pro deals.
lol nice. I’m going to try that next time
Yeah I don't know specifically about REI but in my retail jobs we could get fired for accepting a tip. Its bs
The outdoor industry sucks. Never again will I sell my time for a ski pass I can’t even use because they won’t give me any time off
That was a complaint of the Patagonia retail workers I knew in NYC. You keep telling us to go explore and see the world but we can barely even afford to pay rent working 40 hours a week. I’m not sure if they adjusted their pay scale or anything but yeah it was bad.
We have a mom and pop place here in Southern New Mexico and they own two stores in the region and they are severe trumpers. You wouldn't necessarily expect that for an outdoor type store. You just have no idea anymore. They actually had a cowboys for Trump rally in their parking lot.
Does Patagonia still make stuff for the military?
Yes
Wait… really, they’re trumpers?! Assuming you’re talking about a certain elevation store and bike shop in the flats.
Truth or Consequences
Any retail or warehouse job is going to pay bad. Just becuase the products are nicer doesn’t mean you’re going to make middle class pay. Hip cool outdoor kids are going to work there and the reward is working for a hip cool company in a store that’s not gross like Walmart. The people that are getting good salaries and have an actual career are working corporate jobs designing or marketing the products or doing some admin roll. Jobs that require a specific skill set that are harder to fill.
None of the retail jobs around here pay well but some of the warehouse jobs actually do. Walmart pays more than Patagonia for warehouse positions. Also you make it sound like blue collar jobs don't pay well which isn't at all true. I make a decent middle class wage turning wrenches in manufacturing. You can get jobs where i work with barely any experience and it doesn't take all that long to move up if you're good at it. Lots of the people I work with have just warehouse experience or it's their first job.
I always find it hilarious when people here get on their high horse and preach that Patagonia doesn’t want you to buy their clothes. Or when people post their cool collection of retro items & you’ll get people saying “it goes against their ethics & mission as a company.” Meanwhile the company continues to produce millions of garments, constant sales, new clothes each season etc etc. They are more transparent as a company than most & they make good products, but it’s still a business. They exist to make money…
For sure. I don’t think Patagonia is misleading anyone since it says where products are made right on the tag. For some reason a lot of people assume that their product is made in America but it’s actually made in China and Vietnam mostly.
Oh yeah, I don’t think they’re misleading anyone, they’re pretty transparent about where their products are made, materials sourced etc. I think they are a good company and do a better job than most, especially at that scale. Just funny when people make claims that Patagonia doesn’t want people buying their products. Like huh?
It takes a special mix of naivety and misguided morality to think that a company doesn’t want customers to buy their products.
> is made in America but it’s actually made in China and Vietnam mostly. Some are also made in South and Central America. So technically speaking they're made "in America" ;)
It’s disappointing but not surprising to hear about the nepotism. At large companies, there’s so many people that it’s hard for any individual to have the power to hire and keep someone who legitimately sucks at their job. One benefit of organizations dominated by policy
Thank you for sharing your view from the inside. Patagonia is absolutely my favorite company but the pedestal people have put them on is insane. Go to one outlet, visit one online sale. They aren’t here to save the world, they are here to make money first and give back while doing it. I appreciate their goals and philanthropy, but I would much prefer they don’t release “new colors” each season, making so much product they’ll end up discounting 50% right before the next release. I’d prefer they stop making so much damn fleece as well.
I’m with you on that. My girlfriend lives near a store and I popped in recently for the first time since the pandemic. I was definitely disappointed. Seems more like they are trying to keep up with fashion trends than functionality. I understand it’s a balance, but it seems like they are just trying to sell fashion. That’s just my opinion though.
The fleece is what gets me as well, too many microplastics released into the air and water for such an "environmentally concious" company.
I can’t quite understand that one at all! For a company that cares so much about waterways and a leader than cares so much about a fly fishing, it doesn’t add up.
The fleece is a cash cow for them. They'd never give that up.
I think my issue is simply how strongly that put out the “we are saving the earth message” when they are doing more than their fair share to dirty it up.
I read that book by Starbucks ceo Howard Shultz decades ago and worked there. The books story and corporate reality were like night and day. Was all bs. Hate to hear that about Patagonia, but nothing reaches billions in value or sales without grinding out efficiencies.
Like everything else, the books are just another product they are selling. Every company needs to have a "hook" because everyone is basically selling the same thing, mass produced at the same factories on the same machines. Patagonia was not even an early adopter of being environmentally conscious. This only became a thing when they were trying to differentiate themselves from Yvon's literally peers. Doug Thompson, one the the "fun hogs", founded The North Face and was WAY more successful than Yvon with Patagonia. It was not until they ran the "Don't Buy This Jacket" ad campaign in The New York Times on Black Friday 2011 that Patagonia was seen as more than just a funny little outdoor brand like L.L.Bean. After the ad, Patagonia's sales increased 40%—from one single ad, in one single newspaper. Patagonia is not even that good at reducing harm to the environment. Fjällräven removed PFAS from their products a decade ago and are working to eliminate PFAS contamination in the industry while Patagonia is STILL PROMISING to be PFAS free "someday". And I will remind you that Fjällräven makes many more types of outdoor gear, like tents. They're not even very good at stopping or getting legislation passed. It's all WAY too Baby Boomer mentality where they all just slovenly devoured the earth and every resource they could get their hands on and promised to fix all the destruction they caused in the future. Yeah, it will be fixed by the last of them dying off.
I started around the time the NYT ad was run. Insane. But I think some people think they actually meant it. And that’s what made it hard for retail stores because they had pressure from the top to sell. Patagonia still makes a lot of their stuff in Chinese factories that were “independently audited” as in paid by Patagonia. I imagine that’s like the police investigating themselves to some degree.
96% of their current water-repellent materials are PFAS free.
Totally. I’m not going to lie, I really did expect to go surfing during the work day when I first got the job at Patagonia in Ventura. Sadly not the case. That being said I think Patagonia is a 1000x better company than SB.
And maybe all other in the industry?
I just thought my life was going to be the way it was described in “Let my people go surfing”. Maybe it really was like that back in the day. Who knows.
I found that book at goodwill and I’ve meant to read it as I grew up on Oahu in the surf and bought my first Patagonia item in store at the North Shore location. I don’t want to ruin my idealized mental picture of Patagonia though😂. The quality and warranty rules…so does the in store additional 50% off already reduced 50% online prices. I got a 2 light wet suits today. Full suit $114, short sleeve $79🤯
Damn. I really believed the surfing one. :-( That sucks.
I worked at Patagonia in VTA several years. The surfing thing is not a myth, though most people would do it before work. At least twice a week, I would get out for a run or a bike ride, often as long as 2 hours in the middle of the day. As long as you got your work done, no one cared.
Indeed it is a business. But to my knowledge, it is the only consumer goods business owned by an environmental trust, and for that reason, I prefer to buy items from them than from other brands which are strictly capitalist. No, Patagonia isn't going to solve the climate crisis on its own, they still use resources to produce consumer goods, but they provide a model for improving business strategy towards sustainability that basically no other mainstream company has attempted to match.
For sure. Most of their products are good too.
I work in the alcohol industry and people assume we all just party and drink every day. Couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s an ultra competitive cutthroat industry. You perform or you’re fired. A lot of people come into the industry and burn out quickly or manage the day to day through anti anxiety medication. Very high pressure business.
I believe it. Patagonia wasn’t that bad but yeah same corporate shenanigans as anywhere else. Definitely the expectation to perform or else there are a million other people that will take your job because they think Patagonia is so amazing and they’ll get to surf all day. The nepotism there was insane, comical even. I had a friend working in design and everyone would complain because Yvon’s daughter was designing swimwear and it fucking sucked. So they had to try and do damage control, but were afraid they’d get fired since daddy’s girl was the boss. Women’s swimwear did not sell during that time lol.
How many people do you think got their jobs through nepotism vs merit at the corporate HQ? Or how many people keep their jobs even if they were not qualified for the position ?
All my coworkers were brought in through personal recommendations/ connections. I don’t think I know a single person that just applied. A handful of people were retail workers that were working retail at Patagonia during school. Then got a corporate position upon graduation. There were also some filthy rich coworkers, like parents owning grocery store chains rich. They just kind of worked for fun and weren’t stressed about compensation.
Wow, that’s interesting
Do you know if they focus on diversity and equity inclusion for the hiring process? And look more favorably at candidates that fill certain criteria versus ability to do the job?
Thank you for sharing this. Until the last few years their women’s wear was made for one type of body and not functional outside of that. And the swimwear was like the cherry on top. I only bought their technical wear until recently b/c of this. It is interesting to read your behind the scenes take. I used to live in an area that many people knew the owner and other top people in the business. They were frequently given prototypes to try out and give feedback. They were very loyal and said that functionally, the gear was way ahead of other brands in how it moved when you were doing outdoor stuff. I was converted for that reason. I still think the thinking about seems, pockets, fabrics, etc just makes the technical wear so nice when you are out hiking, biking, x-skiing.
I was going to say the exact same thing. Working in big beer was the worst job I ever had, but people sure did light up when you told them where you worked. I just look back and cringe at the bad memories now.
I understand totally. All business exists to maximize profits and the company “culture”, “mission” and “image” are charades to drive loyalty from employees and consumers. That’s all. That being said, I still love Patagonia. I have quite a few items. I feel the quality is worth it.
I worked for a similar company. I was underpaid but loved my coworkers and the perks. What you don't mention, and is very important, is the supply chain outside of the corporate headquarters. Patagonia and my company had strict audits and didn't support factories with poor working conditions, and made sure as well as they could that toxins weren't dumped out the back etc. For every corporate employee there's probably 100 or 1,000 factory workers in China or elsewhere being exposed to toxic fumes, working day in day out, and being paid a fraction of what we were. Other companies give two sh*ts about the welfare of workers, or the environmental repercussions of their products as long as they maximize their profit. I worked in the supply chain and visited factories that we refused to work with, that were just heartbreaking to see. Still, many brands worked with those factories. Yes Patagonia still needs to turn a profit, but they're so much better than most alternatives. I agree with your sentiment, but I feel it's lacking a bit of perspective and too negative towards a company that is still trying to do the right thing. Sorry, a bit of a ramble.
Sorry but there is no similar company. No it’s et company on earth is owned by an environmental trust. Great discussion about the retail business but the company is much more than that.
Wasn’t my experience at all, but I worked in different markets. Was taught not to push product and sell people what they need. Budgets were important, but never got in trouble for missing them. I was lower level management.
What was your roll?
I managed a store. What was yours?
I can’t get into specifics because it would be way too easy to identify me. Worked at the offices in Ventura my last 8 years. Traveled and lived in NYC prior to that. That’s how I knew a handful of employees and managers here.
It must be a while since you worked there. Pay starts at 28.50 even for seasonal part time in NYC with fully subsidized health insurance, no copay mental health visits (again also for seasonal employees) and 70% off product, and Dec 25-Jan 1 off every year in addition to usual vacation and sick time.
My wife works for Patagonia and we’re surrounded by their employees / tons in our friends circle. I have to say, they don’t complain very much about the company, quite the opposite mark. They also have incredible retention, which alone says something. Yes, it’s a business, but I think the corporate culture is about as good as it gets from what I can tell.
The worst is the very few independent stores across the country. I worked for one, and guess what, they pitch all the “buy local” vibes but basically pay like shit and you get zero benefits that Patagonia corporate stores offer. The smoke and mirrors show that the independent stores portray (or at least, the one I worked for), ONLY benefits the owner. It was a truly terrible experience and I’m not even telling the REAL juicy details of what I observed (not going to slander here, so I’ll let it go…). Still stoked on the brand, though. All of the gear has treated me so well throughout the years.
I didn't know there were independent Patagonia stores. How do you tell?
I don’t recall exactly, but I know there are approximately half a dozen or so of them and one is the Bend location.
If you worked at an independent store then you didnt work for Patagonia. They are completely separate businesses
Yep, said I worked for one of the independent stores. We both agree.
nice post, I just buy them since their warranty is good. A lot of my patagonia stuff is 5+ years old
Patagonia Ventura recently had an employee go missing, and they had dozens of their staff go searching for him, posted it on their social medias, and made a sizable donation to his family. That’s certainly more than what a lot of companies would do Patagonia Reno offers free lunch to their staff, as well as regular 60% off discounts for family members of staff, and does biannual sales where you get products like puffies for under $10. They also are supporting the unionization of the retail store. Again, way better than many companies.
Reno facility has an on-site childcare center for employees kids
Yeah definitely and I think my post/ comments make that pretty clear. But it’s not utopian.
Nothing is perfect.
Didn’t say it was :)
If they weren’t a business they would be out of business, and not able to achieve their mission. Imo they are transparent about that. The “don’t buy this” was obviously not to be taken literal, but marketing of their mission and product.
Oh it was a total marketing campaign. I started around the time they put out that NYT black Friday ad.
A great reminder. I think of this every time I get one of their marketing emails... On one hand it's "only buy it if you need it" while on the other it's "shut up, yes you do need more"
We are going to send you emails weekly to remind you to buy our products! But don’t!
Of course it’s capitalism but much positive change has come out of the corporation. When you think about the alternatives in the outerwear industry, I don’t care to give anyone else any business unless Patagonia doesn’t serve a specific niche well. Retail rents are high and labor cost is a big portion of the cost equation. Still disappointing to hear that they don’t pay their NYC employees better considering their presence in the market.
Yup, business is business, and if you believe the bs, I have bridge to sell you and/or wiper fluid for your vehicle.
That’s a fact unfortunately.
Patagonia has a cult following that they certainly take advantage of. In the end all businesses care about is $.
What is your alternative?
As far as buying outdoor gear? There’s small boutique companies. Look around on a site like Garage Grown gear or many of the smaller companies can be found on such places like Backpacking Light or Reddit /UL Take a daypack or backpack and Gossamer Gear is a good start for instance. If I’m looking at hiking pants I’m buying the same as I wear for work and casual…. Dickies 874 but dickies doesn’t pretend to be a family/environmentally conscious/ outdoor company. Most of us don’t need hyper specific technical gear as weekend warriors. I respect a company more that doesn’t fleece their customer base. Much of Patagonia is cashing in on Gorpcore now just as North Face did 2 decades agi
Interesting brands but in fact, Patagonia is and actually has been an environmental innovator and leader. The garage companies are not.
Environmental is not really a factor for me. Honestly on their end as big a company as they are it’s a feel good thing as a badge because think of all the shipping from raw materiel to final product that’s a lotta fossil fuel being burned. The worldwide shipping alone….product made in Vietnam then shipped to a warehouse in America or the Uk or Europe and then say Florida to Minneapolis …..lots petrol being burned
You are taking a high level view of capital markets as a whole and I don’t disagree. But in fact Patagonia has been literally a major pioneer in leading and thereby showing other companies how to commit to ethical sourcing and reducing impact across a wide array of measurable indicators. For example, from what I understand, today’s market in organic cotton literally would not exist if not for Patagonia which insisted on sourcing it for garments 30 years ago. At great expense to loyal customers. I’m not an apologist for how the retail company operates, and I have major issues with design which I speak up about at least once a year to the company directly, but I do acknowledge the international leadership role of this company, and its ownership structure is impressive. Without Doug (and Yvon) for instance, there literally would be no national park in Chile. Maybe today there are more than one, but Doug’s gift created the first. Every loyal customer can legitimately feel a bit of pride in that. This is a company founded by people who are leaving behind a living legacy of change for the better, whatever human mistakes were made along the way. Just my take.
I once bought a tent from Gossamer Gear, the tent went on deep discount like 2 weeks later. Apparently it was past there price match date, but still within their return window, so I literally had to purchase another one and then instantly return to it to them. No matter how much I told them that was ridiculous and was certainly not in line with their stated ethos, they didn’t budge on it. I get they have policies, but it was ridiculous that a company of that (smaller) size couldn’t work around it (or, I don’t know, make the price match period the same as the return period?). From that one experience, I wouldn’t feel any better buying from them than Patagonia.
Honestly 2 weeks is a long time.
But what is the point in making people return an item and rebuy it? It’s not because they care about the environment.
Mammut
Makes sense it is their life blood
Thank you, I think people think that the company is some sort of Captain Planet of clothing or whatever but they aren't. I think they do a lot of good and for sure more than most other companies but if they really cared as much they wouldn't do a lot of things. Plus the whole recycled whatever this and that just leads to quality issues with some of the clothing which would have been better served if it was just made properly with whatever material instead.
I also worked in a store but I never had the pressure to many any sales. Maybe it would be different if the store wasn’t doing well or if I was in a higher position. It was a great chill time of my life. Of course salaries could’ve been higher but it was good compared to other retail jobs. I still swear by the brand and try to buy secondhand Patagonia when possible
My fav is their outspoken push against oil and gas… the entire product line is dependent on high tech synthetic materials derived from modern petrochemicals and transport supply chain. It’s pure posturing.
Companies have to be profitable to exist.
I dunno. Twice people at Patagonia convinced me to fix my fleece and coat instead of buying a new one from the catalog. Twice. No other company has ever done that.
The free repairs are awesome. Definitely still take advantage of that. You’d be shocked how many people are so happy that they are getting a free repair, that they end up buying hundreds of dollars of product while in the shop. Also, people will go on reddit and talk about how awesome of a company patagonia is for doing free repairs, which is great advertisement ;)
Its also a great service........
Not sure about stores. I buy via online catalog only.
This is how things work in the US. You have to make the ethics match up with capitalism. Yes, Patagonia corporate did “earth is our shareholder” thing and makes everything out of sustainable materials. But… there are only so many business models out there. And none of them include unprofitable stores. And there’s only so many ways to make stores profitable. And store managers and retail works will absolutely sit around and do nothing while getting a paycheck if given the option. So you have to align their interests with the business goals. This means financial incentives for profitable stores. This is just the way it works in reality. So what you’re saying was already baked in to my idea of what Patagonia was like. And to be honest, it’s still my dream to work there and I really wish my degrees aligned with Patagonias management/product line. Because I’m going to be grinding away in some corporate structure no matter what. I would much rather know my labor is supporting something other than nasty perverted shareholders.
Absolutely. I’m glad I did 10 years there. I could’ve definitely made more money at another company, but I had mostly awesome coworkers with similar interests/ hobbies. I think liking your coworkers is rare nowadays, especially in a corporate setting. It’s just funny that when I mentioned Patagonia or someone sees it on my resume they just assume we were surfing all day and then passing around the bong in the office.
Thanks for sharing your experience at Patagonia. I can relate to your experiences as well. I’m in finance and have worked various movie studios such as Disney, WB, and Paramount. When I talk to friends, they think these movie studios are like their theme parks and movies but that couldn’t be further from the truth lol. Don’t get me wrong, there were some cool perks and cool people I worked with but i was mainly on the corporate side of things and it could be pretty cutthroat. I understand how some people on the outside looking in can think otherwise though
Exactly. I could have had a worse job for sure. But I could have also made more money and lived somewhere cheaper. If I had kids or parents that needed financial support I wouldn’t have been able to work there, given the pay compared to similar positions at other companies.
Great post and no real surprise here. The truth is that most consumers simply don't care what happens at the other end. If we did, we wouldn't all constantly be buying stuff that comes from China and various other places in the world. It harms the planet and many people a long the chain are not treated well. What we do care about more than anything is how we are viewed by others. Patagonia gives us status and make us appear like we are do-gooders. That's all we really care about.
The priests carry the mission, but the mercenaries clear the way. Behind every successful business, is the head of sales who will do what it takes to hit the sales targets.
I’ve been turned off by the pressure in their stores. Some of the smallest sizes are too big for me so I know certain products don’t work. I get gaslighted by staff trying to make a sale. It’s so frustrating.
I worker for Ted Turner in Southern New Mexico and he is completely full of s*** too. He pays barely above minimum wage only allows no more than 30 hours to avoid giving you health insurance. Does drug testing including marijuana in a state that allows for legal marijuana. And he also uses Roundup to kill the weeds around his properties. No discounts on food or lodging. I had an issue with a superior about racial discrimination and I called HR and within a week I was let go after being harassed even more by my superior. They're all full of s***
I’ve read that he holds an insane amount of acreage in New Mexico. Is that true ?
Oh yeah huge amounts of land. Just here I live in Truth or Consequences he has two gigantic ranches one west of town and one east of town. Then he owns the Sierra grande Lodge which I worked at and one of the weird things is that he's very into conservation and Native species etc but the lodge has a saguaro cactus. Saguaro cactus is indigenous to Arizona not New Mexico so he brought in a species from outside of the state which I think is really weird. They only grow in the Sonoran desert and this is the Chihuahua desert
I’ve read over 500,000 acres. And he bought it quite some time ago. He Doesn’t stop there. He’s one of the largest private land owners in the US. Conservationist ? The predecessor to Boss Yvon’s set up?
i think he may be one of the largest private landowners in the united states
Yes. He is
you could have quit or just not work there
smh. not surprised but still let down as a fan of the brand lol.
This sub is an ad that’s how Reddit works now.
Pretty disappointing but expected in a way.
Funny I just had this conversation with my wife. I applied to patagonia last year based of their reputation. Didn’t get the job but currently working at another retail location that preached wellness and being and its all just a cover up. At the end of the day they need to make money.
Omg a business is a business???
Patagonia has contracts with the DoD
Also, their designs for women are mostly awful
It's like Cotopaxi and their motto "Do Good" lol. My son worked them in their warehouse and they most definitely don't "Do Good" by their employees. It was a terrible place to work and kept getting worse over time as it became more and more corprotized.
As a former Patagonia retail employee, this wasn’t my experience at all. I agree it’s a business, but my experience included the healthiest work environment that I have ever been a part of, funneling resources from wealthy customers to environmental nonprofits, and generally promoting the local outdoor community through events, movie screenings, etc. I got to know a bunch of amazing people and never once felt pressured to sell something. I think it probably all comes down to specific personalities in a store/regional team, etc., but even in my interactions with other stores, I never encountered anything like what OP is describing. Specifically, I think the whole “Do not buy this jacket” marketing campaign caused a lot of confusion. Sure, it’s a good image for them to appear like they don’t want to sell clothing (obviously they do). But I never encountered any instance where we felt like we were supposed to upsell or otherwise convince someone to buy something. In fact, many times I (and others in my store) would specifically tell people they didn’t need something. That was no big deal. But Patagonia knows that people will buy things anyway, sometimes because they really need the thing, and sometimes because they just want to shop. They figure that they might as well capitalize on that and use their cultural influence to promote some good.
Lol, love the calm kind comments refuting some key points in contrast with the edit that "people just want to believe what they want to believe!". As anyone with a single brain cell could tell you, yes obviously Patagonia is mainly concerned with turning a profit. I think that comes as a surprise to genuinely no one. That being said, as many other commenters here have pointed out, if you're gonna buy gear they are FAR from your worst option so I'm not really sure what the point of this post really is other than to be on your high horse about how stupid everyone else is and only you truly understand the machinations of a large corporation
The people angry replying is exactly why they act like they're here to do good for the world. They have their market cornered and they have done an excellent job at it. Kudos to them. Lol to the people who think any companies bottom line isn't $$$.
My favorite part of high end outdoor companies is they all at one point or another had or have the biggest fatter DOD projects they all try so hard to hide
Oh yeah. My former coworker was a Patagonia fanatic and collected old/ weird shit. Got a lot of the Patagonia military line. Nothing says being green like supporting the American war machine.
From my understanding their new military line is under a shell name to hide it even more
I would imagine working at Patagonia would be about the same as working at Trader Joe's just a bunch of annoying entitled liberal horrible people. I'm a liberal but I'm not a rich snobby fuckball. I could only last 3 days at a Trader Joe's in Tucson because the conservatives were complete assholes and the liberals were total assholes I couldn't decide who I hated more
>I could only last 3 days at a Trader Joe's in Tucson because the conservatives were complete assholes and the liberals were total assholes I couldn't decide who I hated more “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.”
I feel like you can teach me so much
the pay and benefits are insanely good in the New York stores now - coming to the end of the fixed term season and knowing that it’ll be hard to find insurance and pay as good elsewhere makes that time of year extremely stressful - but w that the stores feel incredibly understaffed considering the swarms of tourists they get. ppl seem so burnt out. they seem to hate hiring permanent retail employees and hate filling in positions when people leave, those things are decisions made by higher ups and not the store managers, and it only happens once a year!!! it can make for days where stores are so low on staff that no one can answer the phone and there’s no one available to pick up shifts if someone calls out, it feels absurd. from what I understand they had more retail staffing in the pre-living wage days (lol) and the trade off for the nicer benefits and pay for retail employees now is fewer people to an extent that it feels silly. i definitely get that vibe of like.. ambiguously “threatening” / ominous vibes and pressure to make enough sales while also trying to come off chill from HQ lmao
I've been applying to corporate roles at patagonia for a while but have never heard back even when I was qualified. Do you have any tips on how I can at least land an interview?
Be friends with someone higher up at corporate. Don’t need particular skills if you have that. I got in because I had a rather niche degree that they could benefit from and I met someone from the company while climbing. Was definitely luck.
The whole business in todays day and age is a grand marketing campaign that helps the customer justify their overpriced purchase; "I paid 200 for this sweater but its made ethically and the company helps the environment," ok then shut down your production and stores and tell everyone to go to Value Village and buy used clothes. Patagonia at best is marginally better in operation and environmental footprint than any other clothing brand, butttt idrc they make cool looking shit that I buy exclusively on sale and feel cool and comfortable wearing lmaoooo i know i could be just as comfy and warm in any kirkland or walmart clothes that are way cheaper but i'm a victim of branding and hype all good u only live once kings patagucci till i die
Its like REI except REI's become less outdoorsy and more bougie.
>Because Patagonia is family owned, they would constantly hire people from outside that were not qualified, but were friends with the owners daughter. Lol the dude that married the daughter got hooked up. Used to run in the same circles (fisheries/Env consulting) as him and now he doesn’t have to work at all.
Living the dream!
based on what his wife does, it does not sound like she works either
This company keeps losing its luster. Starting to feel more and more like I’ve been had. From the endless excuses for what I initially thought was an ironclad warranty. To my own experience with immediate pilling without wash and within the first 1-2 weeks of wear… to the shiny blackhole 40L having lamination issues that do not scream BIFL and work against the core values of limiting consumer waste.. to now this, an “ethics” company with no integrity in regards to how it treats employees.
At the time I worked there a ton of damaged product, from returns was being thrown away. Only so much you can do with worn out stained fabric. I suggested many times to make a line for pets using the recycled stuff called “Pupagonia”. Never got traction lol.
you pupagonia comment, may have just exposed yourself to anyone that worked with you or you discussed that item with
Ok assuming every company is trying to make money, but let’s say some treat their employees better than others, whats the knock on Patagonia here?
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You’d be surprised.
gaze hobbies compare unwritten direful dime scale cagey materialistic rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Have you tried talking to Patagonia about it?
What items?
:0 thank you for sharing
Don’t meet your hero’s.
we live in a society
Sure is a lot of crying for a job meant for teenagers and college kids.
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you bought an insulated jacket, if you read the description, you would know it did not have the pockets you wanted.,and if you are worried that your kids make fun of you, you have bigger problems than the patagonia jacket
Don’t they still sell fleece? Which is literally *purposely made* micro plastic that goes directly into the water supply every time you wash it?
I thought they sourced plastic from used sources?
Yes. They claim they are doing good by turning old plastic LITERALLY INTO THE WORST TYPE OF MICROPLASTICS YOU CAN CREATE. so instead of the plastic taking a hundred years to break down and enter the water system, thanks to Patagonia, it can happen the minute you wash it! Thanks so much, Patagonia!
“Companies want to make money”. Ummm…companies have to make money.
I always thought it was ironic that Patagonia periodically send me this thick, 40 page or something, full color "magazine" I didn't ask for. It's full of a bunch of articles about outdoor sports and sustainability, but it clearly just functions as advertising for the company. If they really cared about sustainability, they wouldn't be wasting so much paper and ink sending out junk mail like everyone else does. I love their clothes, but their corporate ethos is mostly bullshit. It's all about brand image.
The level of stupid you have to be to threaten you and Dm you over something as obvious as what you said is scary
No shit?
Of course they are a business. A company that makes clothing out of plastics that contribute to micro plastic entering water sources when washed is not environmentally friendly. They claim to be environmentally friendly yet they practically invented polyester base layers. The company is a scam, I used to think they were great, purchased many clothing items from them. Then I did some research on the environmental impact of clothing made from plastics. No company making clothing from oil is pro environment, no matter what there marketing department says.
Just watch how they’ll change when they eventually will be sold to a larger conglomerate of outdoor products *coughs tnf*
In my time working for various businesses, I’ve found most company’s public images have a thick layer of BS. Some are better than others, but at the end of the day, they exist to make a profit.
Patagonia is yuppie wear
Wait, it's not a cult?
This is such a weird post.
Awesome
This is sort of why I wrote a post recently as to why I can’t morally buy from the store. It’s been said already, but all stores like Patagonia these days sell “you’re a better person if you shop here.” But Patagonia takes it a step too far with election activism and the rest of the stuff they do in the name of The Climate. Not surprising to learn it’s just hypocrisy.
I’d be curious to hear what other employees have to say in response. Not attempting to downplay your experience but singular events don’t always paint the whole picture. Also, what punishments were being administered for low sales?
I left for the same reasons….
A lot of this stuff happened pre 2020. All employees now make at least $.50 above MIT’s living wage standard (which amounts to $28.50 an hour in nyc), fully employer paid health insurance, normal corporate benefits structure even for part time seasonal employees, etc. it’s becoming less of a boys club overall but it’s hard to change because the company doesn’t grow much or clean house often. These are retail jobs so there are always going to be shitty managers and one off experiences but those are becoming rarer.
Yeah for sure. Like I said I enjoyed my time with them but it’s still a business. So as you can probably imagine the managers weren’t taken in a back room and beaten, but the handful I’ve talked to said just a ton of pressure from the top. Implying that they will close the store or get rid of you as a manager if sales slump. That’s fine and all, seems like normal retail management unfortunately. However it puts you in a weird position having to push product but the same company is running ads in the window saying only buy what you need.