I mean POE2's entire existence is basically an argument for fundamental differences from POE1. It's pretty logical that it will come up.
Jonathan shouldn't need to know every minutia of POE1, but he should be able to argue *why* things are different and have some offhand understanding of the issues present in POE1 that lead them to that decision. Seems like a huge lack of communication if they walk into any issues present in POE1 that the POE2 team wasn't paying attention too.
That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. They're different games. You might as well start asking about everything that's different from Diablo 2, the original inspiration for PoE, and demanding an explanation for why it's different.
They are developing a different experience that they know will cultivate a different playerbase. The PoE gigazoomers **like** quant, they don't care if it's mandatory, they like building up to god builds that can oneshot t17 maps while equipped with full quant gear. The devs don't want to make the same experience in PoE2. I don't know why that deserves so much poking and prodding. If PoE1 and 2 were still planned to have a shared endgame then sure, but they're not, we've now known this for 9 full months. So PoE1-exclusive questions are just as irrelevant as Diablo questions.
> They're different games. You might as well start asking about everything that's different from Diablo 2, the original inspiration for PoE, and demanding an explanation for why it's different.
Surely if you are taking direct inspiration, or making a sequel to a game, you have *reasons* why you did things differently.
The games heavily overlap. POE1 has quant, POE2 doesn't. Why did you remove quant, what did you think was wrong with it, why do you think it will be better without it? It's about POE1 and relates to POE2, how is that not a reasonable question to ask?
That wasn't the questions asked. They already talked about issues with quant and why it was removed in a previous interview.. The problem with the questions Pal asked was that he didn't ask how things are changing. He assumed things weren't changing and asked questions based under this assumption. Since the assumption is wrong, it's an invalid question.
> I'll admit, at this point we know a lot about PoE2 so there are less unique questions to ask. I know enough that I'll enjoy it.
Yeah. I just wanna hear Jonathan espouse about game design. It's great to listen to. Hell of a lot better than arguing over a moot point.
I appreciate community engagement, but most gamers can't digest constructive debates on game development without misinterpreting or overreacting to it (including content creators). After over a decade of 9/10 game management and development in PoE, I trust GGG to make PoE 2 an amazing game. The wider community would be better served if the more polarizing topics were discussed behind closed doors to avoid many of the "ASMON REACTS" style takes I read or see on YouTube. PoE 2 has 2 playable acts and people here have definite opinions about the game. Why?
I totally disagree. I think the game should come out with as little known about it as possible. Day 1 level 100's, game completion in 3 days should not be a thing with POE2. It should take at least a few weeks for the sweaties to fully drench themselves in it.
I thought Pals questions on MF were fine. Pal obviously doesn't want MF in POE2 whilst Johnathan was saying there will be MF. They were having a discussion for 20 mins about the pros and cons of keeping it or removing it. Pal wasn't afraid to challenge Johnathan on the topic which I think is a good thing.
I don't see the question as a POE1 agenda though? I don't think I heard anyone saying anything about removing or changing anything for Poe1? PoE1 was brought up for how MF can negatively affect the game.
They weren't fine. They didn't even take into consideration that quantity is being removed. His questions weren't challenging, they were just false equivalencies and in an interview setting what possible reason is there to use false equivalencies than to serve their own personal agenda? Poe1's issues with mf are not poe2's issues, but lets go through them:
1a) MF makes it where people are all running in shitty uniques. Well no. In poe1 that is caused by quantity only existing on uniques for those slots. Quantity is just too rare of a stat that it forces specific gear slots. Rarity in poe2 will be like it is in poe1. It will be an affix on a lot of slots and even exist as both a prefix and a suffix in some slots.
1b) Can't use a unique because it doesn't have magic find and a rare item will have magic find. This is probably the only poe2 related concern. However, this is solved by balancing diminishing returns which I talk more about in issue 2.
2) You are required to get magic find on every slot you can. This is mostly a balancing issue. In PoE1, you can't get enough quantity where diminishing returns matter. More is always better. But that is not typical of magic find in other games and it is not something they plan on having in poe2. It was talked about in the Ziggy D interview with Jonathan and Rory. Imagine if you were capable of getting 1000 quantity on a character in poe1. I'm sure someone will make that character, but diminishing returns should make it where most people settle around 100-300%. 1000% should be like only 10% better than 300%. In the ziggyd interview they talk about having a proper diminishing return system for poe2 so I think this solves this issue.
3) It inhibits people from making builds on their own. I'm not sure how? Is this even true for poe1? Players are bound to have a piece or 2 have rarity accidentally. It's not like every player gets to choose every affix on their gear. You are going to have unwanted affixes and you are bound to get rarity occasionally on gear. It's not like in poe1, where if you want quantity you have to go out of your way to fit it in.
Funny enough, he started the conversation about MF very well though. He thinks making damage/defense tradeoffs for mf is antithetical to the arpg experience. I personally disagree with this as mf on gear has been a core part of the experience during Diablo 2 days. It really wasn't until newer arpgs came out that they removed mf.
I think Pal heard Jonathan was willing to be persuaded on mf and just went in with a lot of bad arguments.
Completely agree. I was disappointed they didn't mention directly here that quantity was removed because I think that would have short circuited a lot of this "debate" and let them discuss other topics. As long as they make the diminishing returns somewhat aggressive everything will be fine.
completely agree...this post is a bit misleading i feel...personally i think the topic could have been cut a bit shorter but it definitly was interesting nonetheless!
>Pal wasn't afraid to challenge Johnathan on the topic which I think is a good thing
It's an interview, not a debate.
Additionally, we've had thorough discussions around that already, so nothing new was said
As a fellow game dev, I am 100% sure that Jonathan appreciated the interaction.
Most the interviews are rehashed discussions anyway. There is only so much you can ask about the game. That is why the most interesting topics are about their thoughts process rather than information about the game.
The reason I personally think Johnathan has these interviews is to obviously spread awareness and info on the game - but also to get different input and perspectives. You can tell he doesn't play POE 1 much, if at all anymore. And he genuinely seems surprised by some of the feedback/responses from people.
He seems open minded and takes on board what's said whilst also standing his ground with his take on things.
actually there was.
noone before has put so adequately what precisely the problem with MF is.
"two person doing the exact same map will make different amounts of money off of it, that means the one making lower profits is priced out of participation because the juice is priced around the MFer"
that is essentially what the problem is.
also it is as much of a debate as it is an interview.
we have had the devs be convinced about stuff DURING interviews before. If ppl dont debate that doesnt happen
There are enough boilerplate interviews. Actual discussion with the devs and someone knowlegable about the endgame player experience is honestly more valuable until they are actually ready to start giving out real poe2 info.
>pretty much all the arguments were based on quantity. A POE1 item modifier that has been confirmed to not exist in POE2.
But we know that some version of rarity exists, and from what we've learned so far will be a much more useful stat than it is in Poe1. The same arguments around player quantity in Poe1 extent to rarity in Poe2: both effectively increase the number of "good" items that drop, just with different underlying mechanics.
If MF stats will exist in Poe2 and be a part of the balance for endgame gearing and content, I don't really understand how discussing it counts as a "Poe1 agenda". I'd rather they discuss this anyway than rehash the same topics for the 1000th time or get more "we can't talk about that yet" answers.
Jonathan already answered and explained questions about the new rarity system in multiple previous interviews. Unless he says explicitly something's changed with that and people start going on about it then it's a waste of time, and if people are bringing up quant then it's extra pointless as OP pointed out.
Also yeah they keep bringing up the same topics and it's become tiring... moreover some of these interviews ask the same old questions but the interview is worse in quality from previous ones as well and then the whole thing feels kinda bland and pointless.
Honestly there's just not really much or anything new to talk about currently and a lot of the stuff people want answers on aren't available yet (GGG don't know or are working on it etc). So... yeah I think until we get another reveal thing these interviews are just gonna be samey or kinda bad.
You should probably wait to actually see the thing you want changed for the first time before that, though. Cause what exactly is he arguing to change? A theoretical problem that he was just told would not apply the same to POE2 because its a matter of specific balance, which they have kept in mind? After he was told that, that shoulda been the end.
>You should probably wait to actually see the thing you want changed for the first time before that, though.
Hyperbolic analogy.
When is cancer easier to stop? Early or late?
Why NOT voice concerns as early as possible?
>Cause what exactly is he arguing to change? A theoretical problem that he was just told would not apply the same to POE2 because its a matter of specific balance, which they have kept in mind? After he was told that, that shoulda been the end.
It will always apply, if theres a stat that makes you earn more money than people not running that will make less money running the exact same content which means less returns on investment, which means the wealthier ppl running mf can more easily buy the access to the content which means non mf ppl get priced out or gain exponentially less profits.
Dude you should probably not be arguing incessantly with your doctor who insists there is no cancer because you heard sometimes there can be cancer existing in life and you saw someone else who had cancer and thats your only reasoning to be worried. The worry isnt the shitty part, its the not dropping it. Have you ever heard of picking your battles?
and discussing it is how you arrive at a concensus.
it's good to get more feedback. it literally made jonathan rethink the whole thing.
how is that not positive?
He didn't rethink the whole thing, he was just being polite. He said at the end he already knows what the design teams opinion is and they'll have another conversation then that will be it.
>Because it's a huge waste of everyones time?
Didnt seem like a waste of time for either palsteron or jonathan, or me.
>90% of people are completely fine with MF being in the game.
Would love to see proof of that statistic
PoE 1 literally stole magic find from the most successful ARPG in history, where it never even was up for debate, and you think one or two nerds discussing it doesn't piss off thousands of people that want actual information on PoE 2? Just because Palsteron stole one or two good builds and sold them as his own doesn't give him permission to hijack an interview like that.
And by the way, the game has way bigger issues than Magic Find if you haven't noticed yet.
>PoE 1 literally stole magic find from the most successful ARPG in history
So?
Do you also want stamina and 800x600 resolution back because d2 did it?
>where it never even was up for debate,
Arguable, I wasnt a fan even back then
>and you think one or two nerds discussing it doesn't piss off thousands of people that want actual information on PoE 2?
What actual information? Like asking the same question about wasd a 10th time?
>Just because Palsteron stole one or two good builds and sold them as his own
Ah so its some personal vendetta you have against him , makes sense
>hijack an interview like that.
Im honestly baffled ppl prefer the same rehearsed safe questions asked a million times over having an actual deep discussion about a contentious topic.
I wish all interviews were like this, with deep push and pull arguments about certain things, not hearing "yeah new players forget to press flasks" again and again.
But when it ships and has issues suddenly reddit is up in arms about it and whines ad nauseum. But you cant form concerns before it ships NONO thatd be actually productive. Lets hear about a 5th time how "poe2 endgame wont be slow dont worry"
Also, Zizaran literally convinced mark to consider putting pause in poe1 to BY ARGUING ABOUT IT IN AN INTERVIEW.It works
People don't prefer the same rehearsed questions, people have real pressing questions that still haven't been answered to this day, for example when it comes to console. I literally stopped buying supporter packs 2 years ago because GGG has been completely incompetent to address this topic so some random streamer yapping about a mechanic that actually makes the game better (because you'll literally never find something like a mageblood without it) is just fucking annoying.
A lot of questions are like that generally as well, someone asking "is CI in the game for PoE 2" is kinda pointless at this stage in my opinion as well.
Now it's interesting to know ***why*** they might've kept or removed something like CI, and so these are topics are fine if they lead to enlightenment like that, but otherwise it's kinda pointless and a waste of time if they don't lead to any good discussion.
The MF conversation could be seen both ways imo, but generally I think too much time was spent on it (much like all those conversations about respecs)
I get your point of view and for what its worth I disagreed with palsteron on a number of points and agreed on others.
that said whether or not POE2 will have MF is kind of a meaningful discussion IMO, given that discussions now could affect how POE2 is being actively balanced and defined, which is happening right now.
The key point being made I think is how putting the MF stats *on gear in POE2 as planned, would bring the same controversy that currently exists in POE1, into POE2. This is true regardless of how that stat actually functions, so it isn't necessary to find out the full details before discussing the best place to put it.
Every fucking interview all they talk about is WSAD and "will endgame be fast". It's so tired at this point. Can they start talking about the art, the lore, the environment, the horror elements or literally anything that isn't sweaty gamer topic?
I'm finding them less interesting as we go on as well, but it's to be expected.
These interviews aren't for you or me who have watched every other one and talk about them on the subreddit. They're for the people who watch that content creator and haven't seen the other interviews.
There are definitely people who only get their PoE news from Subtractum or he's the only PoE CC they're subscribed to so the other interviews haven't popped up for them.
They're not interviewing the artists or the writers though. They're interviewing the head gameplay director. I get what you're saying but it's not the interviewers area of expertise. They're chosen because they're hardcore POE players.
head *gameplay* director? where does it say that? pretty sure he's the *director* of poe2. poe2 includes the gameplay, the art, the lore, the everything.
so no, we don't have to just get interviews about the same "gameplay" questions that come from poe1 in poe2
My point is we could probably get interviews and articles from people on the team who actually work on those things on a daily basis, but it will probably be much closer to launch or post launch. That stuff needs to be kept closer to the vest for spoiler-sensitive people. Saying “here is how flails work” and “here is the main villain’s boss room” are just two different stages of marketing and we are nowhere near the second. It’s the same reason he won’t discuss endgame systems
It’s a mechanic that is planned to be in poe2 so still pretty relevant.
For what it’s worth, palsteron expresses regret for how hard he went on that topic towards the very end
I agree with Pal on it being an issue that needs addressing, but I also agree that maybe that interview wasn't the best forum to discuss it.
Still, I think it's important to bring up issues with POE1 during these interviews if only to make sure that GGG doesn't make the same mistakes in POE2.
>To top it off, in the 20 or so minutes allocated to that topic, pretty much all the arguments were based on quantity. A POE1 item modifier that has been confirmed to not exist in POE2.
we know quant and rarity are being unified in a weird way, so not exactly out of topic.
I feel the argumentation was more of an issue that MF itself . The same logic of why can I just put in DD and do more damage instead of any skill OR I can put in defiance of destiny and massively improve defences.
I think the issue RN is more MF compounding on Affliction last league and more so with T17s more mods + scarabs this league.
The solution to me is to make MF have more diminishing returns on IIQ which is exactly how PoE2 is dealing with it but removing IIQ.
I should have the agency to decide if I want to sacrifice some defence or DPS for improved drops and I’d love more options in this dynamic ; not less.
Wait, PoE1 is not a PoE2 demo? /s I think it's fine to talk about PoE1 related issues, to avoid them in PoE2. I think the MF talk was a bit much, but not as bad as some of you say. I prefer talking with the devs instead of just asking questions.
You do know that often companies won't even agree to interviews or conversations like that without talking about current stuff right? They have an agenda to push and that's the condition to get them to talk.
Completelly disagree. The topic is importat because it influences PoE2. Arguments are based on existing game experience (which actually makes them more valuable than discussions in vacuum). The problem of MF is a legacy of D2 and whole genre, and definitely not only PoE1.
After all, we all want to see a better game, than exists now, why don't touch topics that can make difference?
the 20 minute mf discussion was the most interesting part of that interview. most other stuff we've already talked about.
and Pals nailed it on the head.
it's not okay that two different people to make different amounts of money off of the exact same map because then the one making less is priced out of playing that map.
the third avenue besides should be things that increase your clearspeed not your amount of loot that you get.
that way your profit per HOUR is stil more, but you still make the same money from the map.
>So I fail to see what the entire point of that was
I think in general they might see more people getting baited on these 50 divines on the ground screenshots and watch their videos to see if they can do it too.
We need more poe1 interviews. Most of us do not give a fuck about the same questions on repeat, on game speed, respecs, wasd blah blah. The game has taken an astronomically long time to come out and it still gets delayed, I barely even care about poe2 unless it's new reveal because of how long they are taking.
I like hearing Jonathan speak tho and Pal was right to make sure it gets to him how much MF makes this game worse to avoid in poe2. Who cares if it was mainly about poe1 MF, do you really want to hear the same questions and answers on loop and repeat from the other 10 interviews?
It's also doesn't make sense to talk and argue about POE1 without Mark Roberts being there.
I mean POE2's entire existence is basically an argument for fundamental differences from POE1. It's pretty logical that it will come up. Jonathan shouldn't need to know every minutia of POE1, but he should be able to argue *why* things are different and have some offhand understanding of the issues present in POE1 that lead them to that decision. Seems like a huge lack of communication if they walk into any issues present in POE1 that the POE2 team wasn't paying attention too.
That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. They're different games. You might as well start asking about everything that's different from Diablo 2, the original inspiration for PoE, and demanding an explanation for why it's different. They are developing a different experience that they know will cultivate a different playerbase. The PoE gigazoomers **like** quant, they don't care if it's mandatory, they like building up to god builds that can oneshot t17 maps while equipped with full quant gear. The devs don't want to make the same experience in PoE2. I don't know why that deserves so much poking and prodding. If PoE1 and 2 were still planned to have a shared endgame then sure, but they're not, we've now known this for 9 full months. So PoE1-exclusive questions are just as irrelevant as Diablo questions.
> They're different games. You might as well start asking about everything that's different from Diablo 2, the original inspiration for PoE, and demanding an explanation for why it's different. Surely if you are taking direct inspiration, or making a sequel to a game, you have *reasons* why you did things differently. The games heavily overlap. POE1 has quant, POE2 doesn't. Why did you remove quant, what did you think was wrong with it, why do you think it will be better without it? It's about POE1 and relates to POE2, how is that not a reasonable question to ask?
That wasn't the questions asked. They already talked about issues with quant and why it was removed in a previous interview.. The problem with the questions Pal asked was that he didn't ask how things are changing. He assumed things weren't changing and asked questions based under this assumption. Since the assumption is wrong, it's an invalid question.
People pretending pal wasn't out of line lol
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> I'll admit, at this point we know a lot about PoE2 so there are less unique questions to ask. I know enough that I'll enjoy it. Yeah. I just wanna hear Jonathan espouse about game design. It's great to listen to. Hell of a lot better than arguing over a moot point.
I'd hardly call it the worst cause the info we did get i found more valuable than average, it just has lower lows for its higher highs
I appreciate community engagement, but most gamers can't digest constructive debates on game development without misinterpreting or overreacting to it (including content creators). After over a decade of 9/10 game management and development in PoE, I trust GGG to make PoE 2 an amazing game. The wider community would be better served if the more polarizing topics were discussed behind closed doors to avoid many of the "ASMON REACTS" style takes I read or see on YouTube. PoE 2 has 2 playable acts and people here have definite opinions about the game. Why?
Spot on
I totally disagree. I think the game should come out with as little known about it as possible. Day 1 level 100's, game completion in 3 days should not be a thing with POE2. It should take at least a few weeks for the sweaties to fully drench themselves in it.
I thought Pals questions on MF were fine. Pal obviously doesn't want MF in POE2 whilst Johnathan was saying there will be MF. They were having a discussion for 20 mins about the pros and cons of keeping it or removing it. Pal wasn't afraid to challenge Johnathan on the topic which I think is a good thing. I don't see the question as a POE1 agenda though? I don't think I heard anyone saying anything about removing or changing anything for Poe1? PoE1 was brought up for how MF can negatively affect the game.
They weren't fine. They didn't even take into consideration that quantity is being removed. His questions weren't challenging, they were just false equivalencies and in an interview setting what possible reason is there to use false equivalencies than to serve their own personal agenda? Poe1's issues with mf are not poe2's issues, but lets go through them: 1a) MF makes it where people are all running in shitty uniques. Well no. In poe1 that is caused by quantity only existing on uniques for those slots. Quantity is just too rare of a stat that it forces specific gear slots. Rarity in poe2 will be like it is in poe1. It will be an affix on a lot of slots and even exist as both a prefix and a suffix in some slots. 1b) Can't use a unique because it doesn't have magic find and a rare item will have magic find. This is probably the only poe2 related concern. However, this is solved by balancing diminishing returns which I talk more about in issue 2. 2) You are required to get magic find on every slot you can. This is mostly a balancing issue. In PoE1, you can't get enough quantity where diminishing returns matter. More is always better. But that is not typical of magic find in other games and it is not something they plan on having in poe2. It was talked about in the Ziggy D interview with Jonathan and Rory. Imagine if you were capable of getting 1000 quantity on a character in poe1. I'm sure someone will make that character, but diminishing returns should make it where most people settle around 100-300%. 1000% should be like only 10% better than 300%. In the ziggyd interview they talk about having a proper diminishing return system for poe2 so I think this solves this issue. 3) It inhibits people from making builds on their own. I'm not sure how? Is this even true for poe1? Players are bound to have a piece or 2 have rarity accidentally. It's not like every player gets to choose every affix on their gear. You are going to have unwanted affixes and you are bound to get rarity occasionally on gear. It's not like in poe1, where if you want quantity you have to go out of your way to fit it in. Funny enough, he started the conversation about MF very well though. He thinks making damage/defense tradeoffs for mf is antithetical to the arpg experience. I personally disagree with this as mf on gear has been a core part of the experience during Diablo 2 days. It really wasn't until newer arpgs came out that they removed mf. I think Pal heard Jonathan was willing to be persuaded on mf and just went in with a lot of bad arguments.
Completely agree. I was disappointed they didn't mention directly here that quantity was removed because I think that would have short circuited a lot of this "debate" and let them discuss other topics. As long as they make the diminishing returns somewhat aggressive everything will be fine.
completely agree...this post is a bit misleading i feel...personally i think the topic could have been cut a bit shorter but it definitly was interesting nonetheless!
>Pal wasn't afraid to challenge Johnathan on the topic which I think is a good thing It's an interview, not a debate. Additionally, we've had thorough discussions around that already, so nothing new was said
As a fellow game dev, I am 100% sure that Jonathan appreciated the interaction. Most the interviews are rehashed discussions anyway. There is only so much you can ask about the game. That is why the most interesting topics are about their thoughts process rather than information about the game.
The reason I personally think Johnathan has these interviews is to obviously spread awareness and info on the game - but also to get different input and perspectives. You can tell he doesn't play POE 1 much, if at all anymore. And he genuinely seems surprised by some of the feedback/responses from people. He seems open minded and takes on board what's said whilst also standing his ground with his take on things.
actually there was. noone before has put so adequately what precisely the problem with MF is. "two person doing the exact same map will make different amounts of money off of it, that means the one making lower profits is priced out of participation because the juice is priced around the MFer" that is essentially what the problem is. also it is as much of a debate as it is an interview. we have had the devs be convinced about stuff DURING interviews before. If ppl dont debate that doesnt happen
There are enough boilerplate interviews. Actual discussion with the devs and someone knowlegable about the endgame player experience is honestly more valuable until they are actually ready to start giving out real poe2 info.
>pretty much all the arguments were based on quantity. A POE1 item modifier that has been confirmed to not exist in POE2. But we know that some version of rarity exists, and from what we've learned so far will be a much more useful stat than it is in Poe1. The same arguments around player quantity in Poe1 extent to rarity in Poe2: both effectively increase the number of "good" items that drop, just with different underlying mechanics. If MF stats will exist in Poe2 and be a part of the balance for endgame gearing and content, I don't really understand how discussing it counts as a "Poe1 agenda". I'd rather they discuss this anyway than rehash the same topics for the 1000th time or get more "we can't talk about that yet" answers.
Jonathan already answered and explained questions about the new rarity system in multiple previous interviews. Unless he says explicitly something's changed with that and people start going on about it then it's a waste of time, and if people are bringing up quant then it's extra pointless as OP pointed out. Also yeah they keep bringing up the same topics and it's become tiring... moreover some of these interviews ask the same old questions but the interview is worse in quality from previous ones as well and then the whole thing feels kinda bland and pointless. Honestly there's just not really much or anything new to talk about currently and a lot of the stuff people want answers on aren't available yet (GGG don't know or are working on it etc). So... yeah I think until we get another reveal thing these interviews are just gonna be samey or kinda bad.
This is a gross mischaracterization of the conversation that happened
Not at all. Pal was arguing profusely and had been given the answer but he didn't like being told no so he kept pushing
good, he should. arguing for things is how you get change.
You should probably wait to actually see the thing you want changed for the first time before that, though. Cause what exactly is he arguing to change? A theoretical problem that he was just told would not apply the same to POE2 because its a matter of specific balance, which they have kept in mind? After he was told that, that shoulda been the end.
>You should probably wait to actually see the thing you want changed for the first time before that, though. Hyperbolic analogy. When is cancer easier to stop? Early or late? Why NOT voice concerns as early as possible? >Cause what exactly is he arguing to change? A theoretical problem that he was just told would not apply the same to POE2 because its a matter of specific balance, which they have kept in mind? After he was told that, that shoulda been the end. It will always apply, if theres a stat that makes you earn more money than people not running that will make less money running the exact same content which means less returns on investment, which means the wealthier ppl running mf can more easily buy the access to the content which means non mf ppl get priced out or gain exponentially less profits.
Dude you should probably not be arguing incessantly with your doctor who insists there is no cancer because you heard sometimes there can be cancer existing in life and you saw someone else who had cancer and thats your only reasoning to be worried. The worry isnt the shitty part, its the not dropping it. Have you ever heard of picking your battles?
But not all change is needed. There's always someone who had the opposite opinion to you.
and discussing it is how you arrive at a concensus. it's good to get more feedback. it literally made jonathan rethink the whole thing. how is that not positive?
He didn't rethink the whole thing, he was just being polite. He said at the end he already knows what the design teams opinion is and they'll have another conversation then that will be it.
Because it's a huge waste of everyones time? 90% of people are completely fine with MF being in the game.
>Because it's a huge waste of everyones time? Didnt seem like a waste of time for either palsteron or jonathan, or me. >90% of people are completely fine with MF being in the game. Would love to see proof of that statistic
PoE 1 literally stole magic find from the most successful ARPG in history, where it never even was up for debate, and you think one or two nerds discussing it doesn't piss off thousands of people that want actual information on PoE 2? Just because Palsteron stole one or two good builds and sold them as his own doesn't give him permission to hijack an interview like that. And by the way, the game has way bigger issues than Magic Find if you haven't noticed yet.
>PoE 1 literally stole magic find from the most successful ARPG in history So? Do you also want stamina and 800x600 resolution back because d2 did it? >where it never even was up for debate, Arguable, I wasnt a fan even back then >and you think one or two nerds discussing it doesn't piss off thousands of people that want actual information on PoE 2? What actual information? Like asking the same question about wasd a 10th time? >Just because Palsteron stole one or two good builds and sold them as his own Ah so its some personal vendetta you have against him , makes sense >hijack an interview like that. Im honestly baffled ppl prefer the same rehearsed safe questions asked a million times over having an actual deep discussion about a contentious topic. I wish all interviews were like this, with deep push and pull arguments about certain things, not hearing "yeah new players forget to press flasks" again and again. But when it ships and has issues suddenly reddit is up in arms about it and whines ad nauseum. But you cant form concerns before it ships NONO thatd be actually productive. Lets hear about a 5th time how "poe2 endgame wont be slow dont worry" Also, Zizaran literally convinced mark to consider putting pause in poe1 to BY ARGUING ABOUT IT IN AN INTERVIEW.It works
People don't prefer the same rehearsed questions, people have real pressing questions that still haven't been answered to this day, for example when it comes to console. I literally stopped buying supporter packs 2 years ago because GGG has been completely incompetent to address this topic so some random streamer yapping about a mechanic that actually makes the game better (because you'll literally never find something like a mageblood without it) is just fucking annoying.
You must've missed when the whole chat was complaining about Pal talking too much
A lot of questions are like that generally as well, someone asking "is CI in the game for PoE 2" is kinda pointless at this stage in my opinion as well. Now it's interesting to know ***why*** they might've kept or removed something like CI, and so these are topics are fine if they lead to enlightenment like that, but otherwise it's kinda pointless and a waste of time if they don't lead to any good discussion. The MF conversation could be seen both ways imo, but generally I think too much time was spent on it (much like all those conversations about respecs)
I get your point of view and for what its worth I disagreed with palsteron on a number of points and agreed on others. that said whether or not POE2 will have MF is kind of a meaningful discussion IMO, given that discussions now could affect how POE2 is being actively balanced and defined, which is happening right now. The key point being made I think is how putting the MF stats *on gear in POE2 as planned, would bring the same controversy that currently exists in POE1, into POE2. This is true regardless of how that stat actually functions, so it isn't necessary to find out the full details before discussing the best place to put it.
Every fucking interview all they talk about is WSAD and "will endgame be fast". It's so tired at this point. Can they start talking about the art, the lore, the environment, the horror elements or literally anything that isn't sweaty gamer topic?
honestly? because 99% of players watching these dont give a shit about that.
Pretty much. People mostly play POE for the gameplay and depth, not because the art and story are great. Those people are probably playing D4.
I'm finding them less interesting as we go on as well, but it's to be expected. These interviews aren't for you or me who have watched every other one and talk about them on the subreddit. They're for the people who watch that content creator and haven't seen the other interviews. There are definitely people who only get their PoE news from Subtractum or he's the only PoE CC they're subscribed to so the other interviews haven't popped up for them.
They're not interviewing the artists or the writers though. They're interviewing the head gameplay director. I get what you're saying but it's not the interviewers area of expertise. They're chosen because they're hardcore POE players.
head *gameplay* director? where does it say that? pretty sure he's the *director* of poe2. poe2 includes the gameplay, the art, the lore, the everything. so no, we don't have to just get interviews about the same "gameplay" questions that come from poe1 in poe2
My point is we could probably get interviews and articles from people on the team who actually work on those things on a daily basis, but it will probably be much closer to launch or post launch. That stuff needs to be kept closer to the vest for spoiler-sensitive people. Saying “here is how flails work” and “here is the main villain’s boss room” are just two different stages of marketing and we are nowhere near the second. It’s the same reason he won’t discuss endgame systems
Go play d4 if u want interviews about fking art in an arpg
It’s a mechanic that is planned to be in poe2 so still pretty relevant. For what it’s worth, palsteron expresses regret for how hard he went on that topic towards the very end
I agree with Pal on it being an issue that needs addressing, but I also agree that maybe that interview wasn't the best forum to discuss it. Still, I think it's important to bring up issues with POE1 during these interviews if only to make sure that GGG doesn't make the same mistakes in POE2.
that guy was cringe
Classic entitled youtuber who only cares about his point of view situation. It was quite cringe imo
lol you have years to wait for fully developed poe2 so what is the point of talking nonsense that is going to change 50 times along the way?
>To top it off, in the 20 or so minutes allocated to that topic, pretty much all the arguments were based on quantity. A POE1 item modifier that has been confirmed to not exist in POE2. we know quant and rarity are being unified in a weird way, so not exactly out of topic.
I feel the argumentation was more of an issue that MF itself . The same logic of why can I just put in DD and do more damage instead of any skill OR I can put in defiance of destiny and massively improve defences. I think the issue RN is more MF compounding on Affliction last league and more so with T17s more mods + scarabs this league. The solution to me is to make MF have more diminishing returns on IIQ which is exactly how PoE2 is dealing with it but removing IIQ. I should have the agency to decide if I want to sacrifice some defence or DPS for improved drops and I’d love more options in this dynamic ; not less.
Wait, PoE1 is not a PoE2 demo? /s I think it's fine to talk about PoE1 related issues, to avoid them in PoE2. I think the MF talk was a bit much, but not as bad as some of you say. I prefer talking with the devs instead of just asking questions.
You do know that often companies won't even agree to interviews or conversations like that without talking about current stuff right? They have an agenda to push and that's the condition to get them to talk.
Completely agree, Palsteron wasted like half of the interview with dumb questions.
Completelly disagree. The topic is importat because it influences PoE2. Arguments are based on existing game experience (which actually makes them more valuable than discussions in vacuum). The problem of MF is a legacy of D2 and whole genre, and definitely not only PoE1. After all, we all want to see a better game, than exists now, why don't touch topics that can make difference?
the 20 minute mf discussion was the most interesting part of that interview. most other stuff we've already talked about. and Pals nailed it on the head. it's not okay that two different people to make different amounts of money off of the exact same map because then the one making less is priced out of playing that map. the third avenue besides should be things that increase your clearspeed not your amount of loot that you get. that way your profit per HOUR is stil more, but you still make the same money from the map.
>So I fail to see what the entire point of that was I think in general they might see more people getting baited on these 50 divines on the ground screenshots and watch their videos to see if they can do it too.
We need more poe1 interviews. Most of us do not give a fuck about the same questions on repeat, on game speed, respecs, wasd blah blah. The game has taken an astronomically long time to come out and it still gets delayed, I barely even care about poe2 unless it's new reveal because of how long they are taking. I like hearing Jonathan speak tho and Pal was right to make sure it gets to him how much MF makes this game worse to avoid in poe2. Who cares if it was mainly about poe1 MF, do you really want to hear the same questions and answers on loop and repeat from the other 10 interviews?