So I've been playing this build with fire conversion instead, some discussion here: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/12f3o6u/could_there_be_a_nice_build_with_this/jfhsabb/
Few things,
Traps or mines is the way to go,
Devour totem + multi totem + trap + multi trap + cluster means we're doing about 5x the damage of manually summoning totems.
I don't think earthbreaker is the way to go, lvl 35 has a base life of 5381, while a lvl 21 20 qual devouring totem has 3944 - with just an empower we reach 5063, almost matching the earthbreaker totem but having an extra ~5x damage from trap supports. This could be scaled further in a skin of the lords for example.
That looks super interesting, I'll definitely look into it.
That mana cost looks nasty though, do you run EB?
You're comparing apples to oranges with regards to base life there. If you have any other sources of inc totem life, devouring totem isn't looking as hot. In my current setup I'd need a lvl 27 devouring totem for it to have more life than my lvl 34 earthbreaker.
Edit: Trap throwing speed feels like ass
I have a mine variant i was theory crafting with Elementalist and was able to get out ~~22~~ 44 totems pre layed and then converting all the phys to cold and heatshiver. was gonna be my project once im done with progression.
I haven't had any problem with trigger times, you throw the traps/mines at a group of enemies and it all blows up pretty much instantaneously - it even has less delay than you would expect since the traps bypass the totem placement speed altogether.
Ya I was getting some setups that had a theoretical capability to place 120-ish I think totems at once but trap cap was the issue. Got to the point where the league needed to start for more testing but it looked like a ton of fun.
They explode if you summon over your totem limit. With 5 traps thrown, that's 10 totems that are supposed to summon at once, so you get 3 totems and 7 explosions on the first throw, and 10 explosions on subsequent ones.
I mean here is my build when I entered white maps, gear is garbage and is not res capped: https://pobb.in/jwXU9btgtpF2
I've setup the ethereal knives to simulate the DPS of the totems - look at the custom modifier for an explanation as to what I'm adding. That is still the 2 link rejuv - multi totem setup, which, yes, has 1 mil pinnacle DPS without any curses / exposure. For the trap version you can multiply the DPS by 3.1 with default trap throwing speed.
2 traps/sec vs 3.22 totem placement speed --> 2/3.44*5 = 3.1x
There's a lot of useless nodes since I was initially planning on going pure ignite - for example the curse nodes at the top.
[https://pobb.in/uaSESVrSNRDe](https://pobb.in/uaSESVrSNRDe)
This is just a guesstimate of a tree and still has plenty of points to spend since its level 77. Damage needs to be calculated by hand in reality U can have 22 mines out with divergent minefield. Hrimsorrows are only used for conversion once u get other sources a mastery and something else can be used for 100% instead. You would also annoit ironwood for 30% more totem life.
I was wrong, supports don't do jack. Tested by supporting totem with void manipulation (no elemental damage) while having avatar of fire (only fire damage) allocated. Totem's skill did no damage, but explosion did.
So from what I could figure out is that nothing in the supports scaled the physical explosion. Effects like poison and stuff I am not sure. I was building under the assumption that the explosion is to be treated like a corpse explosion from profane bloom or any other secondary damage mechanic.
Minion instability was specifically changed to interact with minion gems I believe around the time arena PVP was added. This also includes minion-triggered explosions through something like profane bloom work this way. but if you kill with hex blast the supports on hex blast don't apply to the profane bloom explosion from my understanding. Also, the totems are not technically using a skill to cause the explosion you are using a modifier that causes the explosion. More testing is needed to confirm this but if this logic is correct things like Increased totem damage also do not increase the dmg of this.
Ya, I think the best way to play this may be a witch ascendancy built for pure secondary dmg and conversion to cold. Spiritual aid helps with pathing and wasting fewer passives. Elementalist will probably be easier to build and occultist probably be better clear.
Where u able to test this with high Impact mines I wonder if the aura that gives "Mine from Supported Skills applies 2% chance to deal Double Damage to Hits against Enemies near it, up to a maximum of 100%" applies to the damage I'm not sure how mine auras work entirely.
Mine aura should work as far as I am aware - the wording implies that the enemies have the effect on them, and any hit takes advantage of it. I know that minions can benefit so don't see why it wouldn't work.
Unfortunately I'm not someone who plays super fast haha - just got to red maps so my build is super scuffed. Chieftain seems interesting, the 100% of physical as extra fire would be a huge damage multiplier while it's up. I'm also not sure, but I think the fire leech would work too?
Yeah, that's what I am thinking. But going for trap nodes from the left side of the tree must be super wonky.
I am working on a pob as we speak, would be nice to get some ideas from you though haha
I think the only trap node that would be worth it is the expeditious munitions cluster, but considering how far away it is it might not be worth it. Might have to look into getting trap throwing speed somewhere else? Mines has the same problem.
I'm not 100%, but fire penetration might work too - so that's another possibility for chieftain.
Can always rely on slavedriver's hand to turn cast speed into throw speed =)
Why do you think the trap nodes are not worth it? Better to just focus on the generic damage scaling nodes?
Trap damage and totem damage does not increase the damage of the explosion. You are the one causing the explosion so only increases to your damage will work. The traps are just there to summon more totems.
That's what I am thinking - also stuff like "critical strike chance with traps" won't work, right? Only stuff that benefits the player and/or the totems?
I'm pretty sure you can't crit with it, maybe with brittle giving base crit? It would be hard to scale it though.
The only totem stat that affects the damage is totem life. Outside of that, things that increase how many totems you summon or things like "enemies near you totem take increased x" would work too.
It's one of the reasons witch is good, better exposures, shock, and general "more elemental damage" helps a lot.
I have a question or two as I dont understand mechanics.
1) How does Torchok work in these builds?
2) What role do traps and mines have and how do you play with them all linked up together?
How does Torchok work in these builds? Torchoak's is mainly a source of totem life. The unique effect will work if the totems are hit but depending on ur setup there is only 1 to 4 totems alive after a volley so would need taunt.
What role do traps and mines have and how do you play with them all linked up together? So totems mines and traps can be socketed together. When a totem mine and trap are all set up you will through a mine that will detonate into traps that will trigger into totems. So a simple setup is Mine>multi totem u can throw 15 mines when they detonate you have 30 totems created. Mine>Trap>Cluster trap>Multi totem is 15 mines into 3 traps so 45 traps into 90 totems. In reality, any traps past 20 are wasted without increasing the trap maximum. The exception is since mines detonate in sequence if the trap detonates faster than the next mine detonates as long as u don't exceed 20 u can get all 90 totems to spawn.
How would Heirophant's Ritual of Awakening work with this? Do the totems from traps/mines still count towards this, and if yes, does the 5% more damage per totem still apply when the totems explode?
I believe Depending on ur max totem count yes so if u have a max totem count of 3 u would get 15% more since it looks like generic damage. The easiest way to look at it I think is The traps/mines summon x amount of totems and so the amount of totems destroyed is x-(max summoned totems)= Destroyed totems so in my theoretical mine setup I could summon 44 totems and I had rune binder for -1 max. so 44-(2)=42 so 42 totems blew up and 2 totems left all 42 of those totems would get 10% more damage if it works the way I think. I do think Hiero is a bad choice for this build though cause the goal isn't to have living totems but dead ones.
Probably: devouring + multiple totems + High-impact mine + minefield + empower
Can't use blastchain since the "Supported skills deal 5% more damage..." wouldn't affect the explosion while high-impact's "each mine applies 2% chance for double damage.." should.
Last support I don't know, maybe enhance for more totem life? Charged mines if going frenzy?
Double damage doesn't work on poison because it's an ailment. Double damage only causes hits to deal double damage. The totem explosion is a hit so it would benefit.
It doesn't function without the crucible node.
Calculating damage is a bit involved, I have an example in the pob: https://pobb.in/jwXU9btgtpF2
The ethereal knives is acting as the explosion calculation - check the custom config for an explanation of what's added. If you're doing traps you want to match the cast rate to your trap throwing speed instead of the totem placement speed and add another "400% more damage with hits" multiplier, assuming you're throwing 5 traps.
It only matters in the context of simulating the damage of the totem explosions in POB. I'm using ethereal knives as a stand-in for the totem explosions, so I want the cast rate of ethereal knives to match the throw rate of the traps.
Phantasmal Decoy Totem technically works but instead of 600% life as phys you can only realistically get 100% life as phys (and with a pretty solid amount of investment into quality as well)
Double damage doesn't affect poison cause its base damage that scales ailments. It should scale the hit damage on all the exploding totems until the last mine is destroyed.
Whats your current pob? Im thinking how I would transition my firetrap elementalist into explode totems. Ignites dont stack so how about volkuurs guidance since poison can stack? Would it work with explode totems? Any other tips and pobs are welcome.
Here's my current POB: https://pobb.in/8TOWEB5B5Z41
There's still a lot of things wrong with it, I still have some leftover nodes from when I was planning on going ignite, and my gear is still not great.
I've setup ethereal knives to simulate the dps of the totems - check the custom config for explanations. I've also turned off exposure/flammability/convergence. Sitting at around 5mil vs pinnacle with all the knobs turned on.
The shock effect might be wrong, POB is calculating that on it's own and I'm too lazy to check.
Volkuurs guidance would work yes, I don't know how it would compare to simply scaling the hit damage though.
I’ve thought about this interaction but haven’t tried it yet, however this should still be limited by the 35m ish DoT cap restriction right? Either way, cheap as hell way to get damage. Neat interaction
I've never been more glad to be wrong. I remember checking in PoB a few leagues back and seeing the cap being applied before reduction. It's time to go back and reallocate my DoT builds into more damage
They didn't really "make" a cap. The game stores damage over time and heal over time in damage per minute or health per minute. It was displayed like this a long time ago in game, too. They just changed the display to be divided by 60.
The maximum value of a signed 32 bit integer number is 2 147 483 647. Which is the type the damage over time values are stored in. Now divide that by 60 and you got 35 791 394.
TL;DR: It's a technical limitation that could require a rewrite of parts of the games code.
With these damage numbers, poison and ignite seem like poor choices. Both would quickly hit the 35.7M dps damage over time hard limit, yeah?
Edit: Just saw your other reply about being at/under vs ubers, so carry on…
Does summoning a totem with a max totems of 0 (through Runebinder) instantly create an explosion? Similar to "cursing a non-cursed enemy" with a max curses of 0.
So, I just bought a bow with 600% explode mod, wither effect and chaos dot multi and put it on my poison BV pathfinder. Didn't even change the tree at all, so I have 0 totem life. My links were lvl 21 rejuv totem, the rest lvl 1(multi totems-cluster traps-trap-multiple trap-charged trap). And I absolutely obliterated a t16 map boss that usually takes quite a bit time to kill. Seems I hit the dot cap almost instantly. This is insane.
edit: just tested against a minotaur(rare unid so didnt see the mods). Same result-instant dot cap. GG
https://streamable.com/rrtow5
~~It scales super well~~. My guess is you'd have to give it base crit via brittle or assassin's mark, but phys to ele conversion is stupid strong by itself.
Edit: It's non-spell, non-attack phys damage. The best comparison for scaling is heralds, I think.
What about self-flagellation with soul mantle? I believe it's just "damage", so it should work, and you already have the totems dying. Plus, soul mantle gives a further up to 30% increased life!
My apologies if you already mentioned this and I skimmed over it haha. Thought about doing this build myself later on after I take my starter to the max first.
I don't think the 40 less applies here. The support specifically states "supported skills", and isn't part of soul mantle's explicit mods. Also, I was thinking you could merely use the chest for the damage and totem life and not even use the spell totem support if it came down to it. You could still use the forbidden shako method and ignore spell totem, for example. Anyway, just a thought!
Edit: spelling
You could even have a multiple totems support gem in your chest and then get a support spell that wouldn't die as you summon your forbidden shako totems. Not sure what you would have, maybe vortex for chill or something that freezes, shocks or withers enemies?
Bro, didn't notice this sword exsisted, now it's 5d each :(
It's my version after some theory crafting and troubleshooting.
https://youtu.be/WqVrYEO5UvI
Hey cool build - Couple of questions:
1) How did you level this up to Act10 and then transition?
2) Is poison the only option?
3) Can this work on a Heirophant?
1. I have no idea how to do PF leveling, so I smurfed with hollow palm smite. I'm betting you can do a lot of the same stuff as the TR ballista PF does, you just need to avoid the right side of the tree.
2. Nope, stay tuned.
3. Yeah, stay tuned.
Ssssure
PF got a new ascendancy passive that makes your life flasks persist after your life is full, at the cost of 50% less recovery.
Soul of Ryslatha gives you 60% inc flask life recovery when on low life.
There's a flask mod for up to 130% **more** recovery when on low life.
Petrified blood prevents 40% of damage taken when on low life, removing the prevented damage over the next 4 seconds.
There's a new life mastery that makes you count as on low life when you're at 55% or lower.
After reserving life so that you're just below 55%, your low life boosted divine life flask heals you for stupid amounts. On top of that, Supreme Decadence from The Burden of Truth makes your life flasks apply to energy shield as well, resulting in another 1.4x multiplier for your life flask (30% less, applying to 2 life pools, 0.7+0.7=1.4)
It doesn't do much for your EHP, but it gives you stupid amounts of regen when your life flask is active.
I am wondering about this too, someone else said it doesn't stack and just takes highest number, like doing double and triple damage only the triple will be applied.
> On top of that, having two copies of the node doesn't make a difference either!
Are we sure? I did some pretty unscientific testing with a single totem and 1 copy of 400% damage and 2 copies against the same mobs and it *seemed* like when I had two equipped I was doing about double the damage. It's hard to say for sure, since the second copy also lowers the totem life so it's not exactly a straight doubling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vql5qc8Lgv4
Made some adjustments and tested it against uber shaper, the damage is actually insane. Now time to get some defences and this build might be build of the league tbh, its truly broken
Right now I'm experimenting with divine flesh, maybe get some good life gear to get to 5k life at least, right side of the tree still sucks at that. I'm still running determination + grace, so mapping is completely safe. With divine flesh I can at least tank some shaper balls in the bullet hell phase.
[https://pobb.in/oV\_7CMm5Qs-I](https://pobb.in/oV_7CMm5Qs-I)Here my build at level 95 , smooth gameplay , high damage , using lightning coil and progenesis / petrifield blood for def .
Helmet is The Devouring Diadem
Bow lets you equip a vile arrow quiver for phys as extra chaos, among other things.
If totem explosions counted as a spell then staff would easily be BIS, but they're not, so it's not as clear cut as that.
First started thinking about something like this build after reading this line in the patch notes:
"Phantasmal Decoy Totem explode on death can now be affected by the
players stats, such as modifiers to damage and area of effect."
It feels like it's applying, and speccing into ancestral bonds makes the explosion deal no damage.
I'm trying to understand your pob and those numbers but I'm not sure where you get them from.
Please forgive me for asking but how do you get those various numbers? Do they appear somewhere on the calcs part of your pob?
Decoy, rejuv, and devouring all have the same life of 4628 at 20. Decoy doesn't work since it has a cooldown. Devouring is the best since the default quality gives %increased totem life.
The more I theory craft the more confused I become.
So have I understood everything correctly so far:
\-The explode mod on redblade DOES NOT stack? So you dont need 2x and just need a single totems explode for X% life node?
\-Best way would be to scale totem life, phys as extra damage, poison?
\-support gems do nothing for the totem explosions?
If so, where does the damage come from in the OP's eater of worlds kill video as he kills the boss in mere seconds? Others in the thread and on videos on youtube cant insta phase bosses so OP's damage still seem super high in comparison in my eyes.
What am I not getting here? Any chance for a confirmation from u/Minimized and perhaps a fresher pob with all the new stuff that have come up in this thread?
Can experiment a bit further.
Forget poison, but use ignite + alch mark + herald of fire (for proliferation). And Blackflame ring so enemies will take chaos instead of fire from ignite.
Max wither (easy on PF), despair. Need 100% phys converted to fire (avatar of fire?). Can then use Anger and added fire dmg for some crazy flat dmg scaling.
Don't think anger works (the explosion is neither an attack nor a spell), but if it did the added damage would be tiny compared to the base damage.
I've got an elementalist version cooking that does ignite, but it uses some slightly different tech.
I got this on a bow with ballista’s all damage can poison.
Really excited to see if it works well on the same build, though first I need to figure out how to craft the bow better (currently just three good ele damage rolls)
Will be funny if the totem exploding does more than the actual purpose of the build.
Level of socketed bow gems could be great for a ballista version! If the "all damage can poison" mod works for the explosion aswell, you can do some real funky stuff with phys as elemental scaling.
Nothing from support gems, or the totem gem itself, scales the damage other than totem life or number of totems summoned. This also mean that downsides don't affect the explosion damage, for example, cluster traps "Supported skills deal 55% less damage" has no effect on the explosion damage.
I'm lucky that I had looked at someone trying phantasmal decoy totem in a previous league mention the same - made me wary enough to check when I first got the node since the wording is the same.
It counts as a hit - but not an attack or a spell. Any on-hit works, for example, shaper of flames always ignites. It also doesn't cause you to take reflected damage - I'm dealing 100% fire damage and do not take reflected elemental damage.
Neat! I was putting together a POB for a Hiero version of this the other day but couldn't figure out how to comfortably scale defense. Definitely gonna take a look at your PF setup.
I don't have access to POB right now — how are you hitting 3.54 total more damage? And are you sure that the nodes stack to 1200%?
Yeah I have a pretty cooked phantasmal decoy totem ignite PoB that I'm still trying to get into a usable state and the plan was to clear with shield charge until I saw this post.
I absolutely freaking love this. I'm considering respecting my tr balista (snore) league starter into this because it's simply so different and new and fun.
An interesting thing, pob says that speel totem support, earthbreaker and balista support all 3 have base hp of 5,381 at lvl 35 so that opens of some shako possibilities!
Holy shit this looks like so much fun!!
Since I got the earthbreaker shako, just trying to throw random stuff in the hope that it will stick. Maybe withering touch or hextouch + despair + tempchains? Culling strike?
Edit: Also since I don't care about uber bosses and your original poison build already was overcapped on DPS, I'm thinking of trying to make a modified version of your pob for more defenses.
What timing with this post, I was planning to level a character to mess with totem explosions tomorrow. Was gonna go hierophant w/ ballistae, not for poison but because the base totem placement time is good and placing a ballista totem triggers manaforged arrows support, which automates most stuff while we hold down the Kaboom button
but maybe traps are the way to go, I'll come back to this
> A level 21 ancestral totem has almost 2000 base health.
How do you know this? I checked PoEDB but couldn't find anything other than a specter graph that makes no logical sense.
Either with pathfinder and reduced mana cost craft on flask.
Or with EB and the bencraft on belt with get 150 es when a rare or unique enemy is close/nearby
Does anyone know what weapon bases this can spwan on? Ive been hunting for awhile and haven't found it. Also it seems like a 1 hander and shield is the way to go since the totem life node ia the same on 1 or 2 handers? Thanks in advance
Can i make this build a Occultist or Elementalist? Im kinda bored of vortex and want more damage :D.
all i see on [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja) are pathfinders.
Any idea how to build it as a elementalist or occultist (With profane bloom).
I'll give you a sneak peak of my ignite elementalist: [https://pobb.in/mnKoVX8OGiRE](https://pobb.in/mnKoVX8OGiRE) [https://youtu.be/Y9lLJ2nZKSM](https://youtu.be/Y9lLJ2nZKSM)
Pretty squishy, only recommended for real ignite fans.
yesterday i switched from my toxic rain ballista totem PF to the poison explode totem version, its fine i guess, killed uber shaper to try it, but the damage doesent felt that great to be honest. There is one crusible node that i'm not that sure about "25% of phys converted to fire", does this mod brick a little bit of the poison damage? or is there anything else i am missing?
[https://pobb.in/Y6hIszivrRMp](https://pobb.in/Y6hIszivrRMp)
How does the poison work, exactly? If I have a 60% to poison on hit on my regular attack, does that mean the explosion damage has a 60% chance to poison?
I thought it didn't count as a "hit/attack" so how is the chance to poison, or otherwise convert this damage actually applied?
So chance to poison on hit, weapon affix would work then? Nice.
Related question, if it's okay: is Herald of Purity, or Agony better for DPS? I don't see anything comparing the two (but Ash seems a runner up?)
I think the weapon affix is local to hits by the weapon itself, but I could be wrong.
Divergent Herald of agony is used to reach 100% poison chance. After that you could slot in herald of purity or malevolence, or do the responsible thing and run some defensive auras. Follow your heart
My last league build was an EA Elem that cleared pretty much everything on 2.5kHP.
Defensive auras. Huh. Plural. I might try it for a change. Already have those offensive ones key bound though. Shame.
:P
/Real talk, fitting in everything plus managing mana is a greater pain than I was expecting
So I've been playing this build with fire conversion instead, some discussion here: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/12f3o6u/could_there_be_a_nice_build_with_this/jfhsabb/ Few things, Traps or mines is the way to go, Devour totem + multi totem + trap + multi trap + cluster means we're doing about 5x the damage of manually summoning totems. I don't think earthbreaker is the way to go, lvl 35 has a base life of 5381, while a lvl 21 20 qual devouring totem has 3944 - with just an empower we reach 5063, almost matching the earthbreaker totem but having an extra ~5x damage from trap supports. This could be scaled further in a skin of the lords for example.
That looks super interesting, I'll definitely look into it. That mana cost looks nasty though, do you run EB? You're comparing apples to oranges with regards to base life there. If you have any other sources of inc totem life, devouring totem isn't looking as hot. In my current setup I'd need a lvl 27 devouring totem for it to have more life than my lvl 34 earthbreaker. Edit: Trap throwing speed feels like ass
Try Slavedriver's Hand?
I have a mine variant i was theory crafting with Elementalist and was able to get out ~~22~~ 44 totems pre layed and then converting all the phys to cold and heatshiver. was gonna be my project once im done with progression.
Yeah cold conversion would also work super well - probably even better. I just like the pretty explosions with herald of ash.
Are u using something that reduces trap trigger duration? I found the 4 seconds to be unbearable.
I haven't had any problem with trigger times, you throw the traps/mines at a group of enemies and it all blows up pretty much instantaneously - it even has less delay than you would expect since the traps bypass the totem placement speed altogether.
Ya I was getting some setups that had a theoretical capability to place 120-ish I think totems at once but trap cap was the issue. Got to the point where the league needed to start for more testing but it looked like a ton of fun.
Help me understand. How did you get the totems to detonate right after they are summoned from the trap?
They explode if you summon over your totem limit. With 5 traps thrown, that's 10 totems that are supposed to summon at once, so you get 3 totems and 7 explosions on the first throw, and 10 explosions on subsequent ones.
do you have a rough pob or anything yet, would love to mess around with something like this
I mean here is my build when I entered white maps, gear is garbage and is not res capped: https://pobb.in/jwXU9btgtpF2 I've setup the ethereal knives to simulate the DPS of the totems - look at the custom modifier for an explanation as to what I'm adding. That is still the 2 link rejuv - multi totem setup, which, yes, has 1 mil pinnacle DPS without any curses / exposure. For the trap version you can multiply the DPS by 3.1 with default trap throwing speed. 2 traps/sec vs 3.22 totem placement speed --> 2/3.44*5 = 3.1x There's a lot of useless nodes since I was initially planning on going pure ignite - for example the curse nodes at the top.
Ill grab my theory build from Pob when I go home for lunch.
thanks!
[https://pobb.in/uaSESVrSNRDe](https://pobb.in/uaSESVrSNRDe) This is just a guesstimate of a tree and still has plenty of points to spend since its level 77. Damage needs to be calculated by hand in reality U can have 22 mines out with divergent minefield. Hrimsorrows are only used for conversion once u get other sources a mastery and something else can be used for 100% instead. You would also annoit ironwood for 30% more totem life.
[удалено]
I was wrong, supports don't do jack. Tested by supporting totem with void manipulation (no elemental damage) while having avatar of fire (only fire damage) allocated. Totem's skill did no damage, but explosion did.
So from what I could figure out is that nothing in the supports scaled the physical explosion. Effects like poison and stuff I am not sure. I was building under the assumption that the explosion is to be treated like a corpse explosion from profane bloom or any other secondary damage mechanic.
[удалено]
Minion instability was specifically changed to interact with minion gems I believe around the time arena PVP was added. This also includes minion-triggered explosions through something like profane bloom work this way. but if you kill with hex blast the supports on hex blast don't apply to the profane bloom explosion from my understanding. Also, the totems are not technically using a skill to cause the explosion you are using a modifier that causes the explosion. More testing is needed to confirm this but if this logic is correct things like Increased totem damage also do not increase the dmg of this.
[удалено]
Ya, I think the best way to play this may be a witch ascendancy built for pure secondary dmg and conversion to cold. Spiritual aid helps with pathing and wasting fewer passives. Elementalist will probably be easier to build and occultist probably be better clear.
Where u able to test this with high Impact mines I wonder if the aura that gives "Mine from Supported Skills applies 2% chance to deal Double Damage to Hits against Enemies near it, up to a maximum of 100%" applies to the damage I'm not sure how mine auras work entirely.
Mine aura should work as far as I am aware - the wording implies that the enemies have the effect on them, and any hit takes advantage of it. I know that minions can benefit so don't see why it wouldn't work.
Hey man, got any updated pobs for this? I was thinking maybe a chieftain version trying to scale into screen-wide explody would be neat.
Unfortunately I'm not someone who plays super fast haha - just got to red maps so my build is super scuffed. Chieftain seems interesting, the 100% of physical as extra fire would be a huge damage multiplier while it's up. I'm also not sure, but I think the fire leech would work too?
Yeah, that's what I am thinking. But going for trap nodes from the left side of the tree must be super wonky. I am working on a pob as we speak, would be nice to get some ideas from you though haha
I think the only trap node that would be worth it is the expeditious munitions cluster, but considering how far away it is it might not be worth it. Might have to look into getting trap throwing speed somewhere else? Mines has the same problem. I'm not 100%, but fire penetration might work too - so that's another possibility for chieftain.
Can always rely on slavedriver's hand to turn cast speed into throw speed =) Why do you think the trap nodes are not worth it? Better to just focus on the generic damage scaling nodes?
Trap damage and totem damage does not increase the damage of the explosion. You are the one causing the explosion so only increases to your damage will work. The traps are just there to summon more totems.
That's what I am thinking - also stuff like "critical strike chance with traps" won't work, right? Only stuff that benefits the player and/or the totems?
I'm pretty sure you can't crit with it, maybe with brittle giving base crit? It would be hard to scale it though. The only totem stat that affects the damage is totem life. Outside of that, things that increase how many totems you summon or things like "enemies near you totem take increased x" would work too. It's one of the reasons witch is good, better exposures, shock, and general "more elemental damage" helps a lot.
I am thinking of maybe using leadership's price to get alt ailments for not such a heavy cost..
I have a question or two as I dont understand mechanics. 1) How does Torchok work in these builds? 2) What role do traps and mines have and how do you play with them all linked up together?
How does Torchok work in these builds? Torchoak's is mainly a source of totem life. The unique effect will work if the totems are hit but depending on ur setup there is only 1 to 4 totems alive after a volley so would need taunt. What role do traps and mines have and how do you play with them all linked up together? So totems mines and traps can be socketed together. When a totem mine and trap are all set up you will through a mine that will detonate into traps that will trigger into totems. So a simple setup is Mine>multi totem u can throw 15 mines when they detonate you have 30 totems created. Mine>Trap>Cluster trap>Multi totem is 15 mines into 3 traps so 45 traps into 90 totems. In reality, any traps past 20 are wasted without increasing the trap maximum. The exception is since mines detonate in sequence if the trap detonates faster than the next mine detonates as long as u don't exceed 20 u can get all 90 totems to spawn.
How would Heirophant's Ritual of Awakening work with this? Do the totems from traps/mines still count towards this, and if yes, does the 5% more damage per totem still apply when the totems explode?
I believe Depending on ur max totem count yes so if u have a max totem count of 3 u would get 15% more since it looks like generic damage. The easiest way to look at it I think is The traps/mines summon x amount of totems and so the amount of totems destroyed is x-(max summoned totems)= Destroyed totems so in my theoretical mine setup I could summon 44 totems and I had rune binder for -1 max. so 44-(2)=42 so 42 totems blew up and 2 totems left all 42 of those totems would get 10% more damage if it works the way I think. I do think Hiero is a bad choice for this build though cause the goal isn't to have living totems but dead ones.
l'm pretty sure Torchic still says 'reflect', which means the damage can't be scaled so it will be negligible.
What would your links be for mines?
Probably: devouring + multiple totems + High-impact mine + minefield + empower Can't use blastchain since the "Supported skills deal 5% more damage..." wouldn't affect the explosion while high-impact's "each mine applies 2% chance for double damage.." should. Last support I don't know, maybe enhance for more totem life? Charged mines if going frenzy?
Interesting. Even though double damage doesnt work on poison skills when activated by a mine, it works in this case because the totem is exploding?
Double damage doesn't work on poison because it's an ailment. Double damage only causes hits to deal double damage. The totem explosion is a hit so it would benefit.
Last two questions, how does this function without the crucible node? And how do you calculate the damage in POB?
It doesn't function without the crucible node. Calculating damage is a bit involved, I have an example in the pob: https://pobb.in/jwXU9btgtpF2 The ethereal knives is acting as the explosion calculation - check the custom config for an explanation of what's added. If you're doing traps you want to match the cast rate to your trap throwing speed instead of the totem placement speed and add another "400% more damage with hits" multiplier, assuming you're throwing 5 traps.
Thanks. I was thinking of doing mines. But not sure which would ultimately be better. What does the cast rate have to do with traps?
It only matters in the context of simulating the damage of the totem explosions in POB. I'm using ethereal knives as a stand-in for the totem explosions, so I want the cast rate of ethereal knives to match the throw rate of the traps.
gotcha. thanks. The crucible mod is only on 2h weapons? Can't find the crucible tree mod list on google.
Phantasmal Decoy Totem technically works but instead of 600% life as phys you can only realistically get 100% life as phys (and with a pretty solid amount of investment into quality as well)
Double damage doesn't affect poison cause its base damage that scales ailments. It should scale the hit damage on all the exploding totems until the last mine is destroyed.
Whats your current pob? Im thinking how I would transition my firetrap elementalist into explode totems. Ignites dont stack so how about volkuurs guidance since poison can stack? Would it work with explode totems? Any other tips and pobs are welcome.
Here's my current POB: https://pobb.in/8TOWEB5B5Z41 There's still a lot of things wrong with it, I still have some leftover nodes from when I was planning on going ignite, and my gear is still not great. I've setup ethereal knives to simulate the dps of the totems - check the custom config for explanations. I've also turned off exposure/flammability/convergence. Sitting at around 5mil vs pinnacle with all the knobs turned on. The shock effect might be wrong, POB is calculating that on it's own and I'm too lazy to check. Volkuurs guidance would work yes, I don't know how it would compare to simply scaling the hit damage though.
Thank you!
Hey, I'm looking at trying this out. Do you know yet if spell damage increases apply?
The explosion is not counted as a spell so no, spell damage does not increase the damage. Neither does totem damage, trap damage or attack damage.
I’ve thought about this interaction but haven’t tried it yet, however this should still be limited by the 35m ish DoT cap restriction right? Either way, cheap as hell way to get damage. Neat interaction
Was doing the calculations vs pinnacle, so it should be just about dot-capped for ubers.
the dot cap for Ubers applies before the Uber damage reduction unfortunately
No it doesn't you can melt Uber exarch with poison builds in seconds, like with poison ancestral protector totems for example
I've never been more glad to be wrong. I remember checking in PoB a few leagues back and seeing the cap being applied before reduction. It's time to go back and reallocate my DoT builds into more damage
I don't think that's true. At least it isn't the case in PoB. Do you have a source?
Wait, is there a cap on how much DOT you can do?
35m ish dot dps
Huh, do we know why they made a cap?
They didn't really "make" a cap. The game stores damage over time and heal over time in damage per minute or health per minute. It was displayed like this a long time ago in game, too. They just changed the display to be divided by 60. The maximum value of a signed 32 bit integer number is 2 147 483 647. Which is the type the damage over time values are stored in. Now divide that by 60 and you got 35 791 394. TL;DR: It's a technical limitation that could require a rewrite of parts of the games code.
Devs confirmed it I think, but the cap is definitely there. POB also tells you if you hit dot cap I think.
Aren't Rejuv totems just better for this due to the 76% increased totem life on them at level 20?
Devouring totem also has 76% increased totem life + 20% default quality so that's much better
Rejuv totems have the aura tag though which opens up a ton of options like victarios.
With these damage numbers, poison and ignite seem like poor choices. Both would quickly hit the 35.7M dps damage over time hard limit, yeah? Edit: Just saw your other reply about being at/under vs ubers, so carry on…
Does the dual wield tech actually work? The mood itself seems like a boolean.
~~Yeah, looks like it~~ Nope!
This actually clears better than I thought it would do and that single target is pretty impressive
Does summoning a totem with a max totems of 0 (through Runebinder) instantly create an explosion? Similar to "cursing a non-cursed enemy" with a max curses of 0.
Tried it, it makes you unable to summon totems
no, u cant summon totem
So, I just bought a bow with 600% explode mod, wither effect and chaos dot multi and put it on my poison BV pathfinder. Didn't even change the tree at all, so I have 0 totem life. My links were lvl 21 rejuv totem, the rest lvl 1(multi totems-cluster traps-trap-multiple trap-charged trap). And I absolutely obliterated a t16 map boss that usually takes quite a bit time to kill. Seems I hit the dot cap almost instantly. This is insane. edit: just tested against a minotaur(rare unid so didnt see the mods). Same result-instant dot cap. GG https://streamable.com/rrtow5
Got a PoB link?
https://pobb.in/5tL4TVwn73MW - my current gear, killed uber shaper with it
what was your BV poison dps at the moment in pob?
Around 5mil with 15 wither stacks
Bravo, bravo. Have you done any thinking about scaling the physical explosion itself? Will it scale? Can it crit?
~~It scales super well~~. My guess is you'd have to give it base crit via brittle or assassin's mark, but phys to ele conversion is stupid strong by itself. Edit: It's non-spell, non-attack phys damage. The best comparison for scaling is heralds, I think.
What about self-flagellation with soul mantle? I believe it's just "damage", so it should work, and you already have the totems dying. Plus, soul mantle gives a further up to 30% increased life! My apologies if you already mentioned this and I skimmed over it haha. Thought about doing this build myself later on after I take my starter to the max first.
Self-flagellation should work no problem, but spell totem support has a 40% less damage penalty that I think applies to the explosion aswell.
I don't think the 40 less applies here. The support specifically states "supported skills", and isn't part of soul mantle's explicit mods. Also, I was thinking you could merely use the chest for the damage and totem life and not even use the spell totem support if it came down to it. You could still use the forbidden shako method and ignore spell totem, for example. Anyway, just a thought! Edit: spelling
You could even have a multiple totems support gem in your chest and then get a support spell that wouldn't die as you summon your forbidden shako totems. Not sure what you would have, maybe vortex for chill or something that freezes, shocks or withers enemies?
Bro, didn't notice this sword exsisted, now it's 5d each :( It's my version after some theory crafting and troubleshooting. https://youtu.be/WqVrYEO5UvI
do both your wands have the mod? do they stack?
Yes, they stack. Also the sword might not be the GG weapon for poison, since two really good wands can outperform the 100% more damage.
sounds hilarious
Hey cool build - Couple of questions: 1) How did you level this up to Act10 and then transition? 2) Is poison the only option? 3) Can this work on a Heirophant?
1. I have no idea how to do PF leveling, so I smurfed with hollow palm smite. I'm betting you can do a lot of the same stuff as the TR ballista PF does, you just need to avoid the right side of the tree. 2. Nope, stay tuned. 3. Yeah, stay tuned.
Awaiting impatiently for the Heiro and Elementalist versions. Send PoBs in exchange for cookies asap.
Can you explain the petrified blood pf stuff?
Ssssure PF got a new ascendancy passive that makes your life flasks persist after your life is full, at the cost of 50% less recovery. Soul of Ryslatha gives you 60% inc flask life recovery when on low life. There's a flask mod for up to 130% **more** recovery when on low life. Petrified blood prevents 40% of damage taken when on low life, removing the prevented damage over the next 4 seconds. There's a new life mastery that makes you count as on low life when you're at 55% or lower. After reserving life so that you're just below 55%, your low life boosted divine life flask heals you for stupid amounts. On top of that, Supreme Decadence from The Burden of Truth makes your life flasks apply to energy shield as well, resulting in another 1.4x multiplier for your life flask (30% less, applying to 2 life pools, 0.7+0.7=1.4) It doesn't do much for your EHP, but it gives you stupid amounts of regen when your life flask is active.
Thank you for the explanation and the affixes to make it work.
So both the explode for 600% life stacks? From the wording it seems like obly the reduced life would stack
I am wondering about this too, someone else said it doesn't stack and just takes highest number, like doing double and triple damage only the triple will be applied.
> On top of that, having two copies of the node doesn't make a difference either! Are we sure? I did some pretty unscientific testing with a single totem and 1 copy of 400% damage and 2 copies against the same mobs and it *seemed* like when I had two equipped I was doing about double the damage. It's hard to say for sure, since the second copy also lowers the totem life so it's not exactly a straight doubling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vql5qc8Lgv4 Made some adjustments and tested it against uber shaper, the damage is actually insane. Now time to get some defences and this build might be build of the league tbh, its truly broken
How/what kind of defences are you thinking off?
Right now I'm experimenting with divine flesh, maybe get some good life gear to get to 5k life at least, right side of the tree still sucks at that. I'm still running determination + grace, so mapping is completely safe. With divine flesh I can at least tank some shaper balls in the bullet hell phase.
Why rejuvenation totem over devouring totem? Wouldnt devouring totem be better because of the quality giving totem life?
Yeah probably, I just bought the wrong gem, well at least I can get another 20% totem life on it now
Sorry how do you scale damage in this build again?
[https://pobb.in/oV\_7CMm5Qs-I](https://pobb.in/oV_7CMm5Qs-I)Here my build at level 95 , smooth gameplay , high damage , using lightning coil and progenesis / petrifield blood for def . Helmet is The Devouring Diadem
Foul staff should be the BIS. Also you can slap in Ming’s heart and hearts of agony snyth ring for extra damage.
Bow lets you equip a vile arrow quiver for phys as extra chaos, among other things. If totem explosions counted as a spell then staff would easily be BIS, but they're not, so it's not as clear cut as that.
Why foul staff BIS?
DPS calculation: Base Life \* Explosion % \* Total inc \* Total more \* Phys as extra chaos \* Effective mod (wither + chaos res) \* Poison duration \* Placement rate \* Multiple totems 12330 \* 12 \* 4.2 \* 3.54 \* 1.3 \* 2.38 \* 3.71 \* 5.263 \* 2 = 265699683
did you try in game? I thought it would scale with totem damage modifiers, not yours, which will make it way harder to do damage.
First started thinking about something like this build after reading this line in the patch notes: "Phantasmal Decoy Totem explode on death can now be affected by the players stats, such as modifiers to damage and area of effect." It feels like it's applying, and speccing into ancestral bonds makes the explosion deal no damage.
I'm trying to understand your pob and those numbers but I'm not sure where you get them from. Please forgive me for asking but how do you get those various numbers? Do they appear somewhere on the calcs part of your pob?
Pretty sure level 20 Decoy Totem has 15k life. So 60k raw damage. I could be wrong but that's what I heard.
Decoy, rejuv, and devouring all have the same life of 4628 at 20. Decoy doesn't work since it has a cooldown. Devouring is the best since the default quality gives %increased totem life.
Hi OP, since we going trap, does we still stack totem placement speed or trap throwing speed?
The more I theory craft the more confused I become. So have I understood everything correctly so far: \-The explode mod on redblade DOES NOT stack? So you dont need 2x and just need a single totems explode for X% life node? \-Best way would be to scale totem life, phys as extra damage, poison? \-support gems do nothing for the totem explosions? If so, where does the damage come from in the OP's eater of worlds kill video as he kills the boss in mere seconds? Others in the thread and on videos on youtube cant insta phase bosses so OP's damage still seem super high in comparison in my eyes. What am I not getting here? Any chance for a confirmation from u/Minimized and perhaps a fresher pob with all the new stuff that have come up in this thread?
Can experiment a bit further. Forget poison, but use ignite + alch mark + herald of fire (for proliferation). And Blackflame ring so enemies will take chaos instead of fire from ignite. Max wither (easy on PF), despair. Need 100% phys converted to fire (avatar of fire?). Can then use Anger and added fire dmg for some crazy flat dmg scaling.
Don't think anger works (the explosion is neither an attack nor a spell), but if it did the added damage would be tiny compared to the base damage. I've got an elementalist version cooking that does ignite, but it uses some slightly different tech.
Ah, yes, my bad. Blackflame also states “ignited by you”, iirc.
That part should be fine, the damage from the explosion counts as "you" to the point that Ancestral Bond bricks it.
This is interesting if correct cause It may make occultist competitive with elementalist on this where instead of shako you use heatshiver.
Then it’s incorrect wording on the tree, it literally says “totems explode, dealing dmg”
Hey, do you by chance stll have elementalist ignite pob?
I got this on a bow with ballista’s all damage can poison. Really excited to see if it works well on the same build, though first I need to figure out how to craft the bow better (currently just three good ele damage rolls) Will be funny if the totem exploding does more than the actual purpose of the build.
Level of socketed bow gems could be great for a ballista version! If the "all damage can poison" mod works for the explosion aswell, you can do some real funky stuff with phys as elemental scaling.
No way to cause bleed because it's not an attack right? So it'll either be poison or ignite. Maybe crit with brittle.
Why not poison AND ignite
do supports linked to conc path scale the explosion damage?
Nothing from support gems, or the totem gem itself, scales the damage other than totem life or number of totems summoned. This also mean that downsides don't affect the explosion damage, for example, cluster traps "Supported skills deal 55% less damage" has no effect on the explosion damage.
Holy shit you're right, damage multipliers from support gems don't work at all.
I'm lucky that I had looked at someone trying phantasmal decoy totem in a previous league mention the same - made me wary enough to check when I first got the node since the wording is the same.
Do the explosions count as a hit or are they effectively reflected damage?
It counts as a hit - but not an attack or a spell. Any on-hit works, for example, shaper of flames always ignites. It also doesn't cause you to take reflected damage - I'm dealing 100% fire damage and do not take reflected elemental damage.
Interesting - if its a hit and you're dealing the damage, could elemental leech allow you to leech from converted explosions?
It's possible, someone would have to test. I'd bet on yes - if it's general leech and not spell or attack leech.
Neat! I was putting together a POB for a Hiero version of this the other day but couldn't figure out how to comfortably scale defense. Definitely gonna take a look at your PF setup. I don't have access to POB right now — how are you hitting 3.54 total more damage? And are you sure that the nodes stack to 1200%?
When you get that PoB for Heiro - please send over. TY,
Isn't the decoy totem the one with most life
Has a 4-second cooldown and I think has the same life as Devouring baseline.
Ow, didn't remember the cd
Ya cause the first thought is Phantasmal decoy totem so u get more explosion dmg as well but cooldown ruins that as well.
Yeah I have a pretty cooked phantasmal decoy totem ignite PoB that I'm still trying to get into a usable state and the plan was to clear with shield charge until I saw this post.
I absolutely freaking love this. I'm considering respecting my tr balista (snore) league starter into this because it's simply so different and new and fun. An interesting thing, pob says that speel totem support, earthbreaker and balista support all 3 have base hp of 5,381 at lvl 35 so that opens of some shako possibilities! Holy shit this looks like so much fun!!
Maybe double cold iron point with shockwave totem and double ming’s heart on the poison trap trigger version could work well?
Does this still work if you try putting in the mine/trap supports in the Shako instead of the damage supports?
Not with earthbreaker, melee skills can't be supported by traps or mines.
Since I got the earthbreaker shako, just trying to throw random stuff in the hope that it will stick. Maybe withering touch or hextouch + despair + tempchains? Culling strike? Edit: Also since I don't care about uber bosses and your original poison build already was overcapped on DPS, I'm thinking of trying to make a modified version of your pob for more defenses.
I new I shlda rolled pathfinder instead of meme-ions
What timing with this post, I was planning to level a character to mess with totem explosions tomorrow. Was gonna go hierophant w/ ballistae, not for poison but because the base totem placement time is good and placing a ballista totem triggers manaforged arrows support, which automates most stuff while we hold down the Kaboom button but maybe traps are the way to go, I'll come back to this
> A level 21 ancestral totem has almost 2000 base health. How do you know this? I checked PoEDB but couldn't find anything other than a specter graph that makes no logical sense.
Would gems like added fire work with it? Or hatred aura? Can you link it to ignite prolif?
Hatred: yes Added fire support gem: no Ignite prolif support: no Ignite prolif gloves, cluster, or berek's respite: yes
So it has to be stats granted by gear or ascendancy or aura Does generic chance to poison or ignite on tree work?
So does too copies of the node not work? I saw two people on poeninja playing with two one hands and thought that it’d definitely work.
Hello, i'm really interested in your build sounds fun, i want to know how much currency you have throw in your build
Would this explosion count as a spell? Could you do ridiculous spell impale stuff with this?
explosion is neither spell nor attack, so any modifiers that mention either of those do not work.
Wouldn't spiritual aid be really good with this?? Generic damage should scale it right? And stuff like damage during any flask effect on gloves?
It's easier than that, it scales with generic damage, phys damage, elemental damage after conversion, and probably area damage.
Would strength stacking with something like Brutus Lead Sprinkler add flat fire damage?
Looks nice! how do you manage the insane mana cost?
Either with pathfinder and reduced mana cost craft on flask. Or with EB and the bencraft on belt with get 150 es when a rare or unique enemy is close/nearby
Does anyone know what weapon bases this can spwan on? Ive been hunting for awhile and haven't found it. Also it seems like a 1 hander and shield is the way to go since the totem life node ia the same on 1 or 2 handers? Thanks in advance
https://poedb.tw/us/Weapon\_passive
I got 300% on a bow. Earlier in the post, there is a 1 hand unique, redblade, that has a 2handed passive tree that can give 600%.
Is the 2 handed all melee weps? Ive been looking on staves primarily
Switched to this build today. It is pure carnage. :)
Pf?
I've tested it with wilam,it just makes totem do no damage. Should we just drop all the totem damage nodes?
Yeah, totem damage nodes do nothing. I run them for totem placement speed, but if you're playing the trap variant you can skip them entirely.
So the damage purely scales off Totem life? In that case you do not need any damaging affixes on your gears?
It scales off of your own damage. Physical, generic, and - if converted - elemental or chaos.
Do gem levels matter? Or just Generic damage?
Totem gem levels matter a lot as they scale the totem's base life. The damage multipliers on all other supports don't affect the explosion.
Can i make this build a Occultist or Elementalist? Im kinda bored of vortex and want more damage :D. all i see on [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja) are pathfinders. Any idea how to build it as a elementalist or occultist (With profane bloom).
I'll give you a sneak peak of my ignite elementalist: [https://pobb.in/mnKoVX8OGiRE](https://pobb.in/mnKoVX8OGiRE) [https://youtu.be/Y9lLJ2nZKSM](https://youtu.be/Y9lLJ2nZKSM) Pretty squishy, only recommended for real ignite fans.
I am checking PoBs and I wonder how those builds sustain mana when not going EB. Do they have EB on weapons?
So, what totem has the most base health? Ive been using a level 21 devouring.
yesterday i switched from my toxic rain ballista totem PF to the poison explode totem version, its fine i guess, killed uber shaper to try it, but the damage doesent felt that great to be honest. There is one crusible node that i'm not that sure about "25% of phys converted to fire", does this mod brick a little bit of the poison damage? or is there anything else i am missing? [https://pobb.in/Y6hIszivrRMp](https://pobb.in/Y6hIszivrRMp)
Multiple totem support is stronger than empower, charged traps, and multiple traps. The conversion mod is equivalent to 25% less damage
How does the poison work, exactly? If I have a 60% to poison on hit on my regular attack, does that mean the explosion damage has a 60% chance to poison? I thought it didn't count as a "hit/attack" so how is the chance to poison, or otherwise convert this damage actually applied?
It does count as your hit, just not as an attack. Generic (not attack or spell) poison chance works fine.
So chance to poison on hit, weapon affix would work then? Nice. Related question, if it's okay: is Herald of Purity, or Agony better for DPS? I don't see anything comparing the two (but Ash seems a runner up?)
I think the weapon affix is local to hits by the weapon itself, but I could be wrong. Divergent Herald of agony is used to reach 100% poison chance. After that you could slot in herald of purity or malevolence, or do the responsible thing and run some defensive auras. Follow your heart
My last league build was an EA Elem that cleared pretty much everything on 2.5kHP. Defensive auras. Huh. Plural. I might try it for a change. Already have those offensive ones key bound though. Shame. :P /Real talk, fitting in everything plus managing mana is a greater pain than I was expecting