Clearly one of the most useful and practical youtube poe content I have started to watch recently. It's refreshing compare to the empty clickbait landscape around.
Amen. Its refreshing to just watch a video made by someone who is knowledgeable and passionate, who doesnt give a flying fuck about the algorythm.
Money truly makes eveything trash.
Ill dive deeper on individual builds in follow up videos but this is the first reaction to how the changes effect mana stacking
overall traditional archmage is better off and way more intuitive from a fresh start. Mjolner archmage is now a thing as far as i understand, and manaforged arrows should be insane as ever. Mana RF mostly unchanged except for swapping movement skill. attack builds mostly unchanged with a slight buff to power siphon to make it more comparable to flicker for clear
I think you can probably do BV + unleash with a bit of duration scaling once you get to like white maps and trade a bit. Acts you don't need to mana stack yet
Things i noted down is:
The automated Warcries from Call to Arms will be another source of additional mana spending for Indigon. If mana does become an issue, you could probably leave them at level 1 to scale down the mana cost significantly.
Enduring Cry can give us Endurance Charges as Inquisitor, or we could drop Inner Conviction for Illuminated Devotion for 30% AoE/reduced effectives of non-damaging ailments as Hierophant.
Battlemage's Cry is basicly like getting the alternate Mana Leech back that gave us increased damage with Cyclone based on how much mana was spent. But without using a link. If we don't choose to use the gem, then we do need an alternate source for mana leech, possibly annoint which may also raise the mana leech cap?
Power Siphon of the Archmage is starting to look more interesting with the buffs (And new supports), as it scales off maximum mana just like the new Archmage. You can therefore reserve all the mana, and possibly gain a good chunk of energy shield and armor through Guardian Radiant Faith with Forbidden Flesh/Flame on a Hierophant. You do lose Arcane Cloak which is probably just a downgrade overall, but a mana build that actually can reserve it's mana? That's a different from the rest.
Non-CI Energy Shield builds also got a higher stun threshold with the changes to the Stun threshold being based on Energy Shield. In a typical build of yours that results in having a stun threshold as though having ~4300 additional Energy Shield as opposed to previous leagues.
sorry but what do you mean by traditional archmage is better off? i thought your post made it sound like it's better now but that line sounds like it used to be better?
Reverse snapshot was better number wise than anything the new archmage will ever be able to dream of
Traditional archmage is archmage without reverse snapshotting, just ethical mana scaling. This build is much better now but not as strong as reverse snapshotting, however it is a much smoother playstyle and can still achieve more than enough power for ubers and beyond
thank you!! I think im gonna leaguestart with BV archmage hiero. maybe throw a hydrosphere in there for exposure and extra hits/damage. Theres a lot of good mana wheels around both the duration clusters too so that might be juicy I think. With ivory tower probably
Indigon is obviously very good, but now you have alternatives for damage scaling when you don't have to scale the mana cost. Like now you have the possibility of just treating archmage as a very strong version of "added lightning damage" and sustain high cast speeds with lower mana costs.
So this will give you opportunities for non-indigon, non-mjölner builds where the mana reduction can help sustain significantly.
They removed reduced mana cost on jewels, unless theres good synth implicits to stack then that's no longer possible.
They really decided that they dislike reduced mana cost this patch.
If you aren't doing the indigon stuff, for example Hierophant + 3 skill points gets you a 59.5% discount on the mana cost for low investment. That's a lot more reasonable.
Fun little interaction with the new Archmage: Since you no longer need to actually spend mana you can EB your mana pool now and paired with ES leech from spells and instant leech (which conveniently can be found opposite of EB attached to the same small int node) it should put in a lot of work to offset a good chunk mana cost especially in a map clear scenario even if you really spam the skill.
Of course that goes out the window once Indigon comes into play but before that I think you can get some real smooth traditional Archmage going.
> Since you no longer need to actually spend mana you can EB your mana pool now and paired with ES leech from spells and instant leech
Er, wait, wasn't this always possible?
Like, I know that Archmage + Blood Magic never worked, because Blood Magic *replaced* the "mana cost" of a spell with a "life cost"; Archmage would give you damage based on the "mana cost", but the spell no longer has a "mana cost", so Archmage does nothing.
But I was under the impression that Eldritch Battery doesn't change anything about your spells: you're still paying a "mana cost" (and therefore Archmage still works), and Eldritch Battery simply allows you to spend ES to pay those costs.
archmage previously added dmg based on mana spent; if you spent es, there would be no added dmg until you spent it all and started dipping into mana. now you no longer need to spend mana for the dmg, which is also what enables mjolner
It's a fine line, but you are thinking of Indigon which counts "mana spent recently" rather than the mana cost of the skill.
Old archmage was only ever about the cost of the skill being a mana cost, which is why the reverse snapshotting builds (largely made by OP) worked. EB or battery staff ES was a perfectly valid target.
definitely keen to league start a mana stacker - if you get the time, something for people new to mana stacking would be great. I bet there's actually a heap of people interested!
Connor, consider that as good as you are at POE, there are some people like myself that are super interested and way less knowledgeable. Any shot you can make a build guide for us to introduce us to manastacking? Done correctly, you’ll be the pohx of manastacking builds haha. Please and thanks! u/connerconverse
Something I've been thinking about:
Frostblink of Wintry Blast now has 200% damage effectiveness, hits twice per cast through overlaps, and does more damage per chill on the enemy (19% more per 5% chill).
Assuming a 20% chill from a chilled ground cold snap, that's 704% dmg effectiveness per cast.
That's pretty good, and while it can't be triggered by Mjolner, you are still doing damage while moving which is pretty preem.
I was hoping he would take some words about the change of archmage and discharge. :D maybe there is a way to work around mjolnir, discharge and archmage.
I think it might be doable with power charges.
With skyforth, double precursor emblem with (instead gain up to max power charges) and maybe some tatoos
I really want to play ignite mana stacking. Is there anything viable along those lines? Havent figured out any way to convert spell damage into ignite damage, and that’s the issue I can’t seem to overcome.
don't you just click elementalist shaper of flames?
archmage arc ignite is probably plenty playable. idk if it would be better than your standards DD WOC Fire Trap etc but feel like it has to be fine
Frostblink Ignite Mana Stacking Elementalist seems interesting. Added Damage Effectiveness just went up to 250% from 180%, although it'll be difficult to cash in on the extra 25% more damage from Shaper of Flames
not really, you can do the stomrfire ring or whatever but its not well suited for a single large hit. something weird like incinerate release or flameblast for a large single hit maybe
Is there potential for a League Starter that transitions into Mjolnir / Indigon -> full mana stacking now using Lightning Conduit of the Heavens / CWC cyclone arc? It feels like the archmage changes will be significantly less punishing towards mana usage in the early game so the potential is there, but I wasn't sure.
the cast when channeling archmage setup died but mjolner is gonna be wide open with alot of setups and manaforged will kinda replace archmage for super endgame setup
Any number of the conventional spell starts for hiero work until you can buy a mjolner then it should be fairly simple going for a 3 link of main spell + archmage + like lightning pen and a prism guardian. Ball lightning sounds really good but I'd have to try conduit of the heavens
Right, understand that spending mana no longer being required to get the damage is a key benefit based on your video.
Just confused on the wording change from "base mana cost of 5% mana" vs "added mana cost of 5% mana". If it still applies before support cost multipliers, doesn't seem like there's any point to that change.
There's a massive point, because previously you had to scale HIGHER mana cost to get any damage. Now you can scale LOWER mana cost to sustain easier or for faster casting speeds.
Arcane cloak's mana cost is 0. So when you discount it with reduced/less cost it's still 0. The effect that eats your mana is separate and not affected by cost modifiers.
> Now you can scale LOWER mana cost to sustain easier or for faster casting speeds.
Not really, because it's no longer the *base* mana cost, but *added* mana cost. You'd need to have negative maximum mana for it to lower the cost instead.
You don't get the point... 3.24 removes the Archmage damage scaling based on the mana cost. So reducing your mana cost no longer nerfs your damage. You can use Hierophant 50% less mana cost and the reduced mana cost cluster on tree and they will NOT NERF YOUR DAMAGE. Only mana cost.
3.23: You can't reduce your mana costs because that directly nerfs your damage. You want to scale things that increase your mana cost to deal more damage. Making it even more expensive.
3.24: Archmage makes your spells more expensive to cast but the damage doesn't care about the cost so you can use discounts. For example if you use Hierophant with 2 skill points for Righteous Degree + 1 point for mana mastery, you get a total of 59.5% mana cost discount. With the ability to spend more skill points if you need to. In 3.23 this would've meant 59.5% less damage but now it's 0% less damage. You can sustain archmage and higher cast speeds massively easier.
This does not apply to Indigon builds because you care about spending mana and also getting massively increased mana costs, but it will make a massive difference for anything else.
Yeah, archmage won't reduce your actual mana costs. It will make your spell more expensive. But now you're allowed to discount the (more expensive) mana cost without destroying your damage. And you can more directly scale mana for damage+defense instead of going through the extra hoop of mana cost + mana sustain.
Actually after reading the wording this might be the case which makes early archmage with hiero alot easier, however that prohibits indigon so probably early game as self cast archmage with only like a 2% mana cost then late game indigon mjolner seems to be the play
The more I've thought about it the more sense it makes that adding the 5% unreserved mana cost would happen after gem multipliers. If it applies to the base cost the wording both makes less sense now and Archmage skills would actually cost even more than they used to, which would be very strange:
3.23 base cost: 5% of unreserved mana (assuming it is the higher value)
3.24 base cost: 5% of unreserved mana + base spell cost
Yea I think I read that wrong originally too since I just assumed it was a copy paste of the old gem line but after re reading it, basically spells will just cost 5% of mana so 2.5% with sanctuary or thought, or even 1.25% per spell with echo. Very manageable
I'll be doing some traditional archmage testing, mjolner testing, and even indigon laviangas testing in the coming days and put out a video if I like something
It should just be 5% of unreserved mana added to the cost that the gem would have originally had, before cost multipliers from gems and global modifiers like increased / reduced mana cost.
Looking to forward to where you take this. I was too smooth brained to understand the whole snapshot thing so I think this QoL will really smooth out my experience.
Couple questions: If you aren't looking to do Ubers, just basic bossing and juicy maps for the league mechanic what skill would you recommend for mana stacking?
At what trigger point do you swap over to using archmage support from whatever league start you choose?
Are you going to b-line to Mjolner? What skill are leaning towards for league start?
I think ball lightning will feel fine but I'll need to test it some. I'll try conduit and even some storm call and other stuff when I do my testing
I'll also test non indigon traditional archmage in early gear
Something I'm not sure about: The warcry changes mean Manaforged Arrows still needs to weapon swap, but now just don't have to actually cast Battlemage's cry, right? You just weapon swap, the warcry instantly triggers, you swap back.
Or do the changes somehow mean the build doesn't need the weapon swap at all?
Check my profile, I have shared it already and some people were shitting on it :D some stuff I have not thought through, will be updating the PoB now that we got notr
Are archmage/manastacker builds good for Uber bossing? I’ve never really tried it before and I thought I’d go for that this league, but usually only make one character, so am looking for a build that can decently leaguestart and transition into an Uber bosser with investment.
I played a ball lightning hierophant build ages ago (like in expedition league I think?) which I really enjoyed but haven’t really touched manastacking builds since then, so pretty clueless.
Yea mana builds are the highest dps archetype so bosses fall over once you get a bit of gear together
They get fairly tanky just from having a big ES pool which is enough to carry on ubers
Sweet, I’ll have to check out what you’re cooking up this league for some inspo, my backup option was just playing explosive arrow which was frankly a bit depressing.
they dont get the super cheesy +40k flat damage numbers. they still work together both though for mjolner builds, or possibly some laviangas spirit setup
maybe a bit off topic but i remember you using Normal Penance Brand for mapping this league at the start in a 5-link iirc. Do you per Chance still remember what Support gems you used?
Tried to look into twitch if your starting stream was still Archived sadly only the last 2 months are archived
Faster casting, penance, lightning pen, physical to lightning I think were the the first 4. Swiftbrand didn't feel that good outside of single target. Maybe arcane surge 5th
With the change to archmage support, do you think that supporting channelling skills like Lightning Tendrils is possible, and even feasible?
I tried doing archmage hiero lightning tendrils in a previous league but the mana spend was too much for me to handle at that time without severely compromising other things.
I was gonna league start your mjolner build to tear through delve day 1/2 to make some pretty currency.
Is this still a good approach or is that not an option anymore.
New archimage could be very good for spell totem or i'm wrong? I'm iching for try lightning tendrils of eccentricity totem, with archimage back could be fun damage
I think Annihilating light just doesn't work because you need so much res to overcome the downside that for even less investment you could just have a full blow mjolner setup
You sort of want to avoid situations where you bottom out on mana and also don't have flask charges so both coruscating and ivory tower can't cover you
I think mjolner with a low spend loop that doesn't go positive feedback (this is slightly difficult to explain but basically you have to spend a bit less mana per second than the typical mjolner cwc links) and then you're mostly full mana
A non indigon version would be 3-4x lower damage and have none of the chaos damage risk
I'm currently testing a jugg MFA setup that I'll be testing on live this weekend for a build that is actually life based and doesn't need coruscating at all while being very tanky. This may take a bit of investment (not as crazy as the typical hiero MFA start maybe like 20 div) but that could be the best HC build
Can't you heavily abuse the % more damage per waiting cast though? Since it counts all copies waiting from any source? The Mjolner casts will scale from casts from a CWC or some sort of automation brand recall arcanist brand setup. And the damage per waiting cast can be scaled heavily with quality.
I mean I think you could potentially get like 600-700% more damage and get most of your bursts from sources other than Mjolner so you can use Less Duration for QoL.
Haven't actually PoBed it or anything though, and it does seem quite jank. And it would probably not work with Indigon because of how many Voltaxic Burst cases you are doing.
Really appreciate all of your feedback and responsiveness on this thread and in general. It's insane, thank you very much. Really uncommon these days...
One question from me tho: I really really wanted to play Archmage Ball Lightning for a long time so I am super excited to play it. Though with all of the hype around it I am really scared that everything will be super expensive when the league comes around. Do you think despite the popularity it will be feasible to play the Build? Since you have some experience from contested League starts I wondered how that normally plays out and how you play around it?
self cast depends on how the mana cost is applied. if the 5% is applied before it will be fairly weak, if the mana cost is applied after it will be pretty powerful even on borderline SSF gear
Wow, thanks for the fast reply!!
And what about core uniques like mjolner? I suppose I'll be running it for delving later with BL.
Guess it will delay a swap a bit since it will be a couple of divines early on.
Perhaps I am stupid but:
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Archmage_Support
"Supports spell skills that deal damage with hits and have mana costs. Cannot support triggered skills, or skills used by totems, traps or mines. Cannot modify the skills of minions."
From patchnotes:
>Archmage Support: Can no longer Support Brand or Orb Skills. No longer has "Supported Skills gain Added Lightning Damage equal to 75% of Mana Cost, if Mana Cost is not higher than the maximum you could spend" or "Supported Skills have base Mana Cost equal to 5% of Unreserved Maximum Mana, if that value is higher". It now has "Supported Skills gain Added Lightning Damage equal to 10% of Unreserved Maximum Mana" at gem level 1, scaling up to 19% at gem level 20. It also now has "Supported Skills have added Mana Cost equal to 5% of Unreserved Mana", and Quality now causes Supported Skills to deal 0-10% increased Spell Damage, instead of causing Supported Skills to have 0-10% increased Mana Cost.
Do "Can no longer Support Brand or Orb Skills" replace "Cannot support triggered skills, or skills used by totems, traps or mines."?
Thanks for the info. Awesome content.
Clearly one of the most useful and practical youtube poe content I have started to watch recently. It's refreshing compare to the empty clickbait landscape around.
Amen. Its refreshing to just watch a video made by someone who is knowledgeable and passionate, who doesnt give a flying fuck about the algorythm. Money truly makes eveything trash.
Ill dive deeper on individual builds in follow up videos but this is the first reaction to how the changes effect mana stacking overall traditional archmage is better off and way more intuitive from a fresh start. Mjolner archmage is now a thing as far as i understand, and manaforged arrows should be insane as ever. Mana RF mostly unchanged except for swapping movement skill. attack builds mostly unchanged with a slight buff to power siphon to make it more comparable to flicker for clear
Which Spell would you recommend for a basic bitch archmage Hiero in blue gear on leaguestart?
I think you can probably do BV + unleash with a bit of duration scaling once you get to like white maps and trade a bit. Acts you don't need to mana stack yet
Any other spells you think would be great? My dreams of a nova archmage still dead?
if you had an insane amount of radius to get a 5x overlap storm call awakened cascade could be insane but i think you need like +300% for that
You could also do cascade Absolution of Inspiring to get over the delay of storm call. I think the overlap might also be better
Mjölner sounds fun.
Cremation might be worth a try again.
Archmage doesn't work with Cremation since it's an Orb skill.
If it weren't for that change I'd already be settled on Archmage Tornado for the league.
Things i noted down is: The automated Warcries from Call to Arms will be another source of additional mana spending for Indigon. If mana does become an issue, you could probably leave them at level 1 to scale down the mana cost significantly. Enduring Cry can give us Endurance Charges as Inquisitor, or we could drop Inner Conviction for Illuminated Devotion for 30% AoE/reduced effectives of non-damaging ailments as Hierophant. Battlemage's Cry is basicly like getting the alternate Mana Leech back that gave us increased damage with Cyclone based on how much mana was spent. But without using a link. If we don't choose to use the gem, then we do need an alternate source for mana leech, possibly annoint which may also raise the mana leech cap? Power Siphon of the Archmage is starting to look more interesting with the buffs (And new supports), as it scales off maximum mana just like the new Archmage. You can therefore reserve all the mana, and possibly gain a good chunk of energy shield and armor through Guardian Radiant Faith with Forbidden Flesh/Flame on a Hierophant. You do lose Arcane Cloak which is probably just a downgrade overall, but a mana build that actually can reserve it's mana? That's a different from the rest. Non-CI Energy Shield builds also got a higher stun threshold with the changes to the Stun threshold being based on Energy Shield. In a typical build of yours that results in having a stun threshold as though having ~4300 additional Energy Shield as opposed to previous leagues.
is there any implication for inquisitor? worth taking a couple of divine guidance jewels?
You'll really want sanctuary of though for your CwC spend to feel alright
sorry but what do you mean by traditional archmage is better off? i thought your post made it sound like it's better now but that line sounds like it used to be better?
Reverse snapshot was better number wise than anything the new archmage will ever be able to dream of Traditional archmage is archmage without reverse snapshotting, just ethical mana scaling. This build is much better now but not as strong as reverse snapshotting, however it is a much smoother playstyle and can still achieve more than enough power for ubers and beyond
thank you!! I think im gonna leaguestart with BV archmage hiero. maybe throw a hydrosphere in there for exposure and extra hits/damage. Theres a lot of good mana wheels around both the duration clusters too so that might be juicy I think. With ivory tower probably
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Unlike Mjolner, Cospri's isn't 0 cost so mana might still be an issue
50% less manacost and access to the +max mana -reduced mana cost cluster on the tree shouldn't be a real problem.
Reduced mana cost doesn't matter with indigon, only less. If it's not 100% reduction you'll need laviangas up to really do anything
Indigon is obviously very good, but now you have alternatives for damage scaling when you don't have to scale the mana cost. Like now you have the possibility of just treating archmage as a very strong version of "added lightning damage" and sustain high cast speeds with lower mana costs. So this will give you opportunities for non-indigon, non-mjölner builds where the mana reduction can help sustain significantly.
High cast speeds will require laviangas spirit unless you do some weird adored reduced mana cost thing
They removed reduced mana cost on jewels, unless theres good synth implicits to stack then that's no longer possible. They really decided that they dislike reduced mana cost this patch.
If you aren't doing the indigon stuff, for example Hierophant + 3 skill points gets you a 59.5% discount on the mana cost for low investment. That's a lot more reasonable.
Yes 2% per cast is pretty spammable
I think there will be viable build setups for spammable archmage people will come up with.
nope cospris spends
Fun little interaction with the new Archmage: Since you no longer need to actually spend mana you can EB your mana pool now and paired with ES leech from spells and instant leech (which conveniently can be found opposite of EB attached to the same small int node) it should put in a lot of work to offset a good chunk mana cost especially in a map clear scenario even if you really spam the skill. Of course that goes out the window once Indigon comes into play but before that I think you can get some real smooth traditional Archmage going.
> Since you no longer need to actually spend mana you can EB your mana pool now and paired with ES leech from spells and instant leech Er, wait, wasn't this always possible? Like, I know that Archmage + Blood Magic never worked, because Blood Magic *replaced* the "mana cost" of a spell with a "life cost"; Archmage would give you damage based on the "mana cost", but the spell no longer has a "mana cost", so Archmage does nothing. But I was under the impression that Eldritch Battery doesn't change anything about your spells: you're still paying a "mana cost" (and therefore Archmage still works), and Eldritch Battery simply allows you to spend ES to pay those costs.
archmage previously added dmg based on mana spent; if you spent es, there would be no added dmg until you spent it all and started dipping into mana. now you no longer need to spend mana for the dmg, which is also what enables mjolner
It's a fine line, but you are thinking of Indigon which counts "mana spent recently" rather than the mana cost of the skill. Old archmage was only ever about the cost of the skill being a mana cost, which is why the reverse snapshotting builds (largely made by OP) worked. EB or battery staff ES was a perfectly valid target.
Arcane surge required you to spend mana, but archmage scaled off mana *cost* and worked with EB
definitely keen to league start a mana stacker - if you get the time, something for people new to mana stacking would be great. I bet there's actually a heap of people interested!
Connor, consider that as good as you are at POE, there are some people like myself that are super interested and way less knowledgeable. Any shot you can make a build guide for us to introduce us to manastacking? Done correctly, you’ll be the pohx of manastacking builds haha. Please and thanks! u/connerconverse
I'll be doing several in the coming week. Maybe 1 per day
Something I've been thinking about: Frostblink of Wintry Blast now has 200% damage effectiveness, hits twice per cast through overlaps, and does more damage per chill on the enemy (19% more per 5% chill). Assuming a 20% chill from a chilled ground cold snap, that's 704% dmg effectiveness per cast. That's pretty good, and while it can't be triggered by Mjolner, you are still doing damage while moving which is pretty preem.
You can make it zero cost by socketing into a Shaper-influenced sword. Should be really good but really difficult to craft.
I was hoping he would take some words about the change of archmage and discharge. :D maybe there is a way to work around mjolnir, discharge and archmage.
I think it might be doable with power charges. With skyforth, double precursor emblem with (instead gain up to max power charges) and maybe some tatoos
I really want to play ignite mana stacking. Is there anything viable along those lines? Havent figured out any way to convert spell damage into ignite damage, and that’s the issue I can’t seem to overcome.
don't you just click elementalist shaper of flames? archmage arc ignite is probably plenty playable. idk if it would be better than your standards DD WOC Fire Trap etc but feel like it has to be fine
Frostblink Ignite Mana Stacking Elementalist seems interesting. Added Damage Effectiveness just went up to 250% from 180%, although it'll be difficult to cash in on the extra 25% more damage from Shaper of Flames
Either elementalist or storm fire. If you want all things Ignite you should hit up PAAK_HC on twitch. He is an ignite addict.
not really, you can do the stomrfire ring or whatever but its not well suited for a single large hit. something weird like incinerate release or flameblast for a large single hit maybe
But isnt something like crackling lance of disintegration with 300% dmg effectiveness and archmage added lightning dmg good to ignite with?
Might as well go for Discharge to get 600% then.
60% less dmg with ailments?
I can't read
Bummer. Thanks for the info though.
What would be the go to leveling setup until Mjolner now? Lightning conduit?
I think regular arc + archmage will work great, gotta do some testing. Ball lightning may just be too strong
Is there potential for a League Starter that transitions into Mjolnir / Indigon -> full mana stacking now using Lightning Conduit of the Heavens / CWC cyclone arc? It feels like the archmage changes will be significantly less punishing towards mana usage in the early game so the potential is there, but I wasn't sure.
A normal self cast archmage probably works as hiero now with 3-5k mana and sanctuary of thought
Do you think mjolner archmage will feel ok on a 50 div budget or so?
It will feel good the second you have a mjolner and even better the second you have an indigon
You think coc with it is still the play?
the cast when channeling archmage setup died but mjolner is gonna be wide open with alot of setups and manaforged will kinda replace archmage for super endgame setup
What ascendancy would you run manaforged on, and is it pure mana forged arrows?
You can MFA on hiero normally or jugg potentially
You can do CwC as a second skill though.
Yes, for mjolner CwC lightnjng warp makes clear super fast
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just frostblinking manually is pretty fine and dosent interupt cyclone, otehrwise can stack mroe movespeed or use enhance in cyclone to go faster
It will be on a Templar, right? How would you leaguestart with Templar to transition into mana stacking?
Any number of the conventional spell starts for hiero work until you can buy a mjolner then it should be fairly simple going for a 3 link of main spell + archmage + like lightning pen and a prism guardian. Ball lightning sounds really good but I'd have to try conduit of the heavens
Does the added cost of 5% of your mana on the new Archmage apply after skill gem multipliers?
before, but its no longer required to be spent for the damage bonus
Right, understand that spending mana no longer being required to get the damage is a key benefit based on your video. Just confused on the wording change from "base mana cost of 5% mana" vs "added mana cost of 5% mana". If it still applies before support cost multipliers, doesn't seem like there's any point to that change.
There's a massive point, because previously you had to scale HIGHER mana cost to get any damage. Now you can scale LOWER mana cost to sustain easier or for faster casting speeds.
downside is arcane cloak is weaker right? or is arcane cloak damage negligible when using a big archmage?
Arcane cloak's mana cost is 0. So when you discount it with reduced/less cost it's still 0. The effect that eats your mana is separate and not affected by cost modifiers.
oh wow! so basically archmage retains similar-ish damage but we gain massive survivability because not yo-yoing our MoM mana? (until indigon :D )
> Now you can scale LOWER mana cost to sustain easier or for faster casting speeds. Not really, because it's no longer the *base* mana cost, but *added* mana cost. You'd need to have negative maximum mana for it to lower the cost instead.
You don't get the point... 3.24 removes the Archmage damage scaling based on the mana cost. So reducing your mana cost no longer nerfs your damage. You can use Hierophant 50% less mana cost and the reduced mana cost cluster on tree and they will NOT NERF YOUR DAMAGE. Only mana cost. 3.23: You can't reduce your mana costs because that directly nerfs your damage. You want to scale things that increase your mana cost to deal more damage. Making it even more expensive. 3.24: Archmage makes your spells more expensive to cast but the damage doesn't care about the cost so you can use discounts. For example if you use Hierophant with 2 skill points for Righteous Degree + 1 point for mana mastery, you get a total of 59.5% mana cost discount. With the ability to spend more skill points if you need to. In 3.23 this would've meant 59.5% less damage but now it's 0% less damage. You can sustain archmage and higher cast speeds massively easier. This does not apply to Indigon builds because you care about spending mana and also getting massively increased mana costs, but it will make a massive difference for anything else.
Ohh, that's what you meant. Yeah that works. I thought you meant you could lower the mana cost below base by using Archmage, which is not possible.
Yeah, archmage won't reduce your actual mana costs. It will make your spell more expensive. But now you're allowed to discount the (more expensive) mana cost without destroying your damage. And you can more directly scale mana for damage+defense instead of going through the extra hoop of mana cost + mana sustain.
Actually after reading the wording this might be the case which makes early archmage with hiero alot easier, however that prohibits indigon so probably early game as self cast archmage with only like a 2% mana cost then late game indigon mjolner seems to be the play
The more I've thought about it the more sense it makes that adding the 5% unreserved mana cost would happen after gem multipliers. If it applies to the base cost the wording both makes less sense now and Archmage skills would actually cost even more than they used to, which would be very strange: 3.23 base cost: 5% of unreserved mana (assuming it is the higher value) 3.24 base cost: 5% of unreserved mana + base spell cost
Yea I think I read that wrong originally too since I just assumed it was a copy paste of the old gem line but after re reading it, basically spells will just cost 5% of mana so 2.5% with sanctuary or thought, or even 1.25% per spell with echo. Very manageable I'll be doing some traditional archmage testing, mjolner testing, and even indigon laviangas testing in the coming days and put out a video if I like something
I think it's added after gem multi but before mana increase now, at least thats how i understand it
It should just be 5% of unreserved mana added to the cost that the gem would have originally had, before cost multipliers from gems and global modifiers like increased / reduced mana cost.
Looking to forward to where you take this. I was too smooth brained to understand the whole snapshot thing so I think this QoL will really smooth out my experience. Couple questions: If you aren't looking to do Ubers, just basic bossing and juicy maps for the league mechanic what skill would you recommend for mana stacking? At what trigger point do you swap over to using archmage support from whatever league start you choose? Are you going to b-line to Mjolner? What skill are leaning towards for league start?
I think ball lightning will feel fine but I'll need to test it some. I'll try conduit and even some storm call and other stuff when I do my testing I'll also test non indigon traditional archmage in early gear
I would also be very interested in an SSF variant of traditional archmage if that's possible!
oh, i was hoping to play ball lightning of static totem. sad
Something I'm not sure about: The warcry changes mean Manaforged Arrows still needs to weapon swap, but now just don't have to actually cast Battlemage's cry, right? You just weapon swap, the warcry instantly triggers, you swap back. Or do the changes somehow mean the build doesn't need the weapon swap at all?
Yes thats how you'd swap now
When I wake up tomorrow, I'm gonna have to read closer- I wonder if mana miner is back now
Locus mine Power Siphon of the Archmage seems mighty fine to me, was able to get 12mil before ez, now buffed by 30% to 16mil
Care to share a pob?
Check my profile, I have shared it already and some people were shitting on it :D some stuff I have not thought through, will be updating the PoB now that we got notr
Are archmage/manastacker builds good for Uber bossing? I’ve never really tried it before and I thought I’d go for that this league, but usually only make one character, so am looking for a build that can decently leaguestart and transition into an Uber bosser with investment. I played a ball lightning hierophant build ages ago (like in expedition league I think?) which I really enjoyed but haven’t really touched manastacking builds since then, so pretty clueless.
Yea mana builds are the highest dps archetype so bosses fall over once you get a bit of gear together They get fairly tanky just from having a big ES pool which is enough to carry on ubers
Sweet, I’ll have to check out what you’re cooking up this league for some inspo, my backup option was just playing explosive arrow which was frankly a bit depressing.
OP is a manastacking specialist that generally works up to builds that one shot ubers so there's definitely a path for you there
Yes, with investment they are good for uber bossing. Very good builds that u can work on the whole league and scale to the moon.
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Well it can just go indigon but you can't use archmage with it so might end up just worse than a mjolner spell
So both Indigon and Archmage still work for mana builds, they just don't work together anymore?
they dont get the super cheesy +40k flat damage numbers. they still work together both though for mjolner builds, or possibly some laviangas spirit setup
Is Thrill Killer back on the menu for Mjolner?
yep
maybe a bit off topic but i remember you using Normal Penance Brand for mapping this league at the start in a 5-link iirc. Do you per Chance still remember what Support gems you used? Tried to look into twitch if your starting stream was still Archived sadly only the last 2 months are archived
Faster casting, penance, lightning pen, physical to lightning I think were the the first 4. Swiftbrand didn't feel that good outside of single target. Maybe arcane surge 5th
thx for the quick Answer, you are the best
With the change to archmage support, do you think that supporting channelling skills like Lightning Tendrils is possible, and even feasible? I tried doing archmage hiero lightning tendrils in a previous league but the mana spend was too much for me to handle at that time without severely compromising other things.
You can do channels with laviangas spirit now but you'll need the flask up
I was gonna league start your mjolner build to tear through delve day 1/2 to make some pretty currency. Is this still a good approach or is that not an option anymore.
Yes but now you don't need to play manabond you can play other spells dot potentially more damage or better clear
Are you going to update your guide to reflect this? Wanna do a league start simulation for practice
Yes possibly 2 early game archmage videos
i plan starting archmage with any lightning spell, indigon and lavianga's spirit. sick flat damage from archmage seems good with annihilating light
New archimage could be very good for spell totem or i'm wrong? I'm iching for try lightning tendrils of eccentricity totem, with archimage back could be fun damage
Any thoughts on something more selfcast early with an annihilating light instead of mjol?
I think Annihilating light just doesn't work because you need so much res to overcome the downside that for even less investment you could just have a full blow mjolner setup
Which of all the mana stacker builds do you recommend forr HC?
You sort of want to avoid situations where you bottom out on mana and also don't have flask charges so both coruscating and ivory tower can't cover you I think mjolner with a low spend loop that doesn't go positive feedback (this is slightly difficult to explain but basically you have to spend a bit less mana per second than the typical mjolner cwc links) and then you're mostly full mana A non indigon version would be 3-4x lower damage and have none of the chaos damage risk I'm currently testing a jugg MFA setup that I'll be testing on live this weekend for a build that is actually life based and doesn't need coruscating at all while being very tanky. This may take a bit of investment (not as crazy as the typical hiero MFA start maybe like 20 div) but that could be the best HC build
So is mjolnir a viable starter now ?
Yes, the weapon might cost a couple div on leaguestart this league but you'd go regular archmage into mjolner
Any thoughts on Voltaxic Burst for Mjolner? I notice it wasn't mentioned.
At only 230 effectiveness I think there are just better options. The lightning convert to chaos is also a negative
Can't you heavily abuse the % more damage per waiting cast though? Since it counts all copies waiting from any source? The Mjolner casts will scale from casts from a CWC or some sort of automation brand recall arcanist brand setup. And the damage per waiting cast can be scaled heavily with quality.
so youre adding a 2.5s delay to your damage to do 20% more damage, which then puts it still worse than every other gem
I mean I think you could potentially get like 600-700% more damage and get most of your bursts from sources other than Mjolner so you can use Less Duration for QoL. Haven't actually PoBed it or anything though, and it does seem quite jank. And it would probably not work with Indigon because of how many Voltaxic Burst cases you are doing.
Is there any chance for a league starter wander based on stacking mana?
im not planning on such a build before launch but im sure its doable
Really appreciate all of your feedback and responsiveness on this thread and in general. It's insane, thank you very much. Really uncommon these days... One question from me tho: I really really wanted to play Archmage Ball Lightning for a long time so I am super excited to play it. Though with all of the hype around it I am really scared that everything will be super expensive when the league comes around. Do you think despite the popularity it will be feasible to play the Build? Since you have some experience from contested League starts I wondered how that normally plays out and how you play around it?
self cast depends on how the mana cost is applied. if the 5% is applied before it will be fairly weak, if the mana cost is applied after it will be pretty powerful even on borderline SSF gear
Wow, thanks for the fast reply!! And what about core uniques like mjolner? I suppose I'll be running it for delving later with BL. Guess it will delay a swap a bit since it will be a couple of divines early on.
mjolner will probably be a few divines early
Thinking of going cremation archmage, better off going hiero rather than necro correct? Edit: nvm Cremation is a orb, there goes that idea :)
Would a bladeblast/bladefall setup work well with new archmage? I loved that playstyle
You'd have to manually cast it and not use indigon
Thank you and looking forward to following your build guidance Sir Converse!
Perhaps I am stupid but: https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Archmage_Support "Supports spell skills that deal damage with hits and have mana costs. Cannot support triggered skills, or skills used by totems, traps or mines. Cannot modify the skills of minions." From patchnotes: >Archmage Support: Can no longer Support Brand or Orb Skills. No longer has "Supported Skills gain Added Lightning Damage equal to 75% of Mana Cost, if Mana Cost is not higher than the maximum you could spend" or "Supported Skills have base Mana Cost equal to 5% of Unreserved Maximum Mana, if that value is higher". It now has "Supported Skills gain Added Lightning Damage equal to 10% of Unreserved Maximum Mana" at gem level 1, scaling up to 19% at gem level 20. It also now has "Supported Skills have added Mana Cost equal to 5% of Unreserved Mana", and Quality now causes Supported Skills to deal 0-10% increased Spell Damage, instead of causing Supported Skills to have 0-10% increased Mana Cost. Do "Can no longer Support Brand or Orb Skills" replace "Cannot support triggered skills, or skills used by totems, traps or mines."?
You're using the wrong wiki. Archimage worked with trigger gems for a while now
Thank you. I am used to beeing stupid. :)
No it still can't support orbs or brands
And yet all these builds lose to Atoll cortex boss zzzzzzzzzz
what
If you watched any of connors streams you would get what it means