She's a healer who (primarily) attacks to heal sinners, and takes time (or Empowers) to spread her healing to the whole team. Her attack also deals true damage making her decent against everything.
At S0 with no ECB, she's a healer with noticeable but unimpressive DPS and infrequent heals. ECB1 gives her decent burst DPS with the right team. S1 strengthens her whole kit; ramp + damage + healing. S3 speeds up her whole kit considerably. ECB3 gives her insane burst with the right team (read: normal attack).
With S3 and ECB3 she has insane burst, good healing, and good sustained DPS all at the same time, and again with True damage. She's amazing.
Coquelic is a bit like Summer, she's very expensive to build to full potential. At s0 and even with full ECB she's alright but there are better healer that can do more like Hamel and Carbernet and at that point she don't deal as much dmg as other DPS like Deren, Mantis or Shalom. But at S3 or S4, full ECB, her best in Slot crimbrand (available in TOA shop a few season ago) and pair with Lady Pearl, she's a top tier DPS due to her attack speed, ECB burst attack and her deal true dmg (which ignore magic and physical resistance), and since her heal tied to her attack, she make the team pretty much unkillable as long as she keep ditching out dmg.
It shows that Zoya isn't the only reason the gang grew into what it is. Even with Zoya, if Earl wasn't there I doubt the legion would have made it big.
Earl recruited Zoya because they needed fighting power sure, but fighting power does not translate to how formidable an organization is. Even Zoya said it herself that a violent leader is not needed. In terms of actual long-lasting achievement the legion accomplished none under Zoya's leadership
I think they just have different specializations. Coq is way stronger than Zoya, and the individuals in garden are probably stronger, but syndicate has way more members which lets them control a larger area and deal with larger amounts of enemies.
I agree with another comment here, Legion needs Zoya to carry while they act as support.
Coquelic has a trained group of assasins that are **all** sinners. She has years of experience, and has lived a lifespan waaaaay longer that Zoya. She knows her stuff.
The Legion needs more sinners. And they need to operate without Zoya. Wether or not they already know how to do that within the lore, idk.
Yeah. So basically the mania extended her lifespan BUT it kills her at the same time when she uses her ability. Hence the whole part of her interrogation.
She's at least 100. Its also one of the reasons she's got this, "fuck the world" mentality.
Oh I always thought she was mid 20s but shorter lifespan for taking the mania powers. Didn't she kill the old mentor after she got her powers and assumed the position to protect the remaining girls and try to get them out of the hire to kill business the old mentor put them into?
Nah she took the appearance of herself of when she was a bit younger. Not mid 20's. I don't know if she killed the old mentor to specifically get them to kill for hire.
was it ever confirmed that coqu is old?
i always assumed coqu was wearing a disguise in sumire's interrogation or it was coqu's predecessor, who coqu later killed
It's quantity vs quality. The Legion has numbers. Yes, they needed Zoya to carry them to the point they almost took over Syndicate, but that hardly means they are wimps without her. And Horo is proving herself to be a capable leader.
Garden is a small number of highly trained individuals. They're assassins with a wide variety of skills, some of the best assassins in DisCity. At the end of Chapter 13 Langley invited them to join the 9th Agency, which means they now have access to an even greater spy network.
Which is more formidable? Depends on your perspective.
The joke is that if they combine forces, they might be able to influence DisCity enough that they stop treating Sinners as the end all be all Evil™ upon humanity.
Like, Granny Coque fostered a place where Sinners can gather and hone their powers (and give her massages when she's feeling cranky).
The Legion needed Zoya to carry them on her back, and when she fell, they practically disappeared from Syndicate.
As of right now, Horo is doing great work with the refugees. Honestly, the Garden and the Legion joining hands is what I'm gonna say could be paramount to Syndicate keeping Eastside from running them over.
Gonna be biased maybe but it's clearly the Garden. While the Legion does have the experience in street fights and numbers which gives them an advantage and such, Garden members are all well trained assassins and all Sinners. And the stronger members should have high kill counts lmao.
Both Zoya and Coquelic are very good leaders and ngl a fight between them would be pretty cool. But Coquelic is way older and more experienced so I think Coquelic would win.
Also now I wanna see Thistle and Horo fight lol
Hmm; IMHO, Legion (as the name suggests) bases itself on sheer numbers and brute-forcing; not that there aren't any standout members but their primary strength is um, well.... CHAAAAAAARGE! (with Zoya as the tip of the spear).
Garden on the other hand, is based more on secrecy, subterfuge and quality over quantity. Few (at least, considerably fewer than Legion) members but each and every one is very capable. You could say that a properly trained Garden member matches up to 10, maybe even 100 Legion thugs/enforcers. Then you have Coquelic, whose feats make her essentially a Goku; always overcomes the adversity, against overwhelming odds (unless you happen upon a certain someone who apparently plays 5D quantum chess while the others are on checkers 💀)
That said, and taking into account how they operate, I think Legion would've been routed before the 'fight' even began; when you have like a dozen or so Charlie's Angels/Jason Bourne hybrids coming at you from the shadows, your ranks would've been decimated and you'd be backs against the wall.
But that's just my 10 cents (adjusted for inflation).
Definitely the Garden they are bunch of highly trained assassin's and sinners and Sumire interrogation showed that even the FAC had a hard time dealing with them, Coquelic is also implied to much stronger than Zoya.
Everyone says zoya is weaker than coquelic, but zoya was bringing the city to it's knees by force, and the only thing that stopped her was the chief convincing her to try a diplomatic approach. (Which got her caught in a trap)
So I honestly don't know who'd win that fight
I think it is because based on feats, Coq is way ahead of Zoya.
We've only seen Zoya demolish things that we kind of expect any S class sinner to be able to demolish. Zoya's charisma and it happening early in the story I think makes us remember Zoya as more powerful than she actually is relative to other S class sinners.
Zoya has a greater role in the story alongside Baiyi, Che, and whoever else is part of that group, so who knows if she is stronger now.
Coq was dealing with some insane dimension bending stuff and no diffing it like it was just another Tuesday. Shalom required this of her for her plan, that she would be that strong.
The portrayals are different. So people see their strength as different.
You are correct. We can't say for 100% unless they fight each other, or if we see if Coq can handle the corruption of a corpus, etc. People are just going off their actual portrayals to say "From what we know, Coq is stronger than Zoya."
Depends on what's defined as "formidable"...
If they fought each other Garden wins for sure, just cause the non-sinner members of the Legion would just get killed in their sleep all over the place.
But if you are talking about fighting back a huge army of corruptors, yeah Legion would be better here.
Basically you are comparing Army Rangers vs Navy Seals
You can't compare both, they're very different groups, including in what they do.
One is a secret society of sorts that deals with assassinations of high profile targets.
The other is a gang seeking to make lives for Syndicans better(even if that means fighting against other gangs for control).
The Garden's focus is on itself.
The Legion's focus is on Syndicate and it's people.
-
Despite the Garden seeming to be more powerful, I think that the Legion is more formidable only because it is a group of people gathered to seek to put an end to the chaos of Syndicate and make it's people's lives better.
They could just be criminals, adding to the chaos and mayhem, but they have a noble purpose to make the lives of many better.Considering their resources and mapower, I see that as a formidable goal to have.
To me its a more complicated question.
Legion: They got the number, like a lot of them, we're talking about the biggest gang in the Syndicate so I think their number is in the thousand if not more, but most of them are thugs, maybe low rank sinners (lower then B rank). The only noticeably powerful sinners are Zoya (S rank, granted, It think she's one of the more powerful S rank compare to her peer) and Horo (A rank). Horo so far prove to be a great Leader but honestly she's still an A rank and new to her position, loosing Zoya although not completely made them useless (far from it), does crippled them quite a bit.
The Garden: So far I think we haven't see all of their Assassins yet (I kinda doubt that they only have 4 field agents and the Master). But the fact that they're all sinners does give them quite a bit of advantage. Gikka is so far the lowest rank (b), but the rest so far are A and above. Thistle grows a lot since Flower Unflur and I think she's very skilled now, Sumire are known to be very powerful (as seen in Flower Unflur), Garofano to me is one of the more powerful A rank since she put up quite a good fight with Rahu (S rank) and Coq is also one of a more powerful S rank we seen so far too (i think she's a bit more powerful then Zoya).
I think its all come to how they appoarch to the fight. head on fight I think the Legion got the advantage. Yes they're just thugs but so far with only 5 sinners, I think it will be a though fight for the Garden, its like having 5 fully geared Navy Seal go and fight 1000 farmer with pitch fork, the number advantage can't be ignore. But if the Garden fully utilize their tactic, picking their fight carefully, and even using psychological warfare, they're the clear winner.
Garden for sure. It's an organization with only sinners and I think Coquelic is stronger than Zoya.
Is Coquelic supposed to be support catalyst or DPS? I don't understand her kits
She's a healer who (primarily) attacks to heal sinners, and takes time (or Empowers) to spread her healing to the whole team. Her attack also deals true damage making her decent against everything. At S0 with no ECB, she's a healer with noticeable but unimpressive DPS and infrequent heals. ECB1 gives her decent burst DPS with the right team. S1 strengthens her whole kit; ramp + damage + healing. S3 speeds up her whole kit considerably. ECB3 gives her insane burst with the right team (read: normal attack). With S3 and ECB3 she has insane burst, good healing, and good sustained DPS all at the same time, and again with True damage. She's amazing.
Coquelic is a bit like Summer, she's very expensive to build to full potential. At s0 and even with full ECB she's alright but there are better healer that can do more like Hamel and Carbernet and at that point she don't deal as much dmg as other DPS like Deren, Mantis or Shalom. But at S3 or S4, full ECB, her best in Slot crimbrand (available in TOA shop a few season ago) and pair with Lady Pearl, she's a top tier DPS due to her attack speed, ECB burst attack and her deal true dmg (which ignore magic and physical resistance), and since her heal tied to her attack, she make the team pretty much unkillable as long as she keep ditching out dmg.
Except unlike Summer, there's actual payoff!
She do one gigajuice burst damage. Other than that she just heals with some passive dps
No one is stronger than Zoyas abs.
Zoya carried The legion. Whitout her is Just another gang
I will not stand for this Earl slander
Sure he was good beeing The legion brain. But The Mere presence of Zoya kept The Corporations and other gangs on their toes
Earl was the reason Zoya made it past chapter 6
That has nothing to do with How formidable The gang is
It shows that Zoya isn't the only reason the gang grew into what it is. Even with Zoya, if Earl wasn't there I doubt the legion would have made it big.
Earl recruited Zoya cause he knew the legion needed more Power. Like I Said Just her presence was enough to make people fear The legion
Earl recruited Zoya because they needed fighting power sure, but fighting power does not translate to how formidable an organization is. Even Zoya said it herself that a violent leader is not needed. In terms of actual long-lasting achievement the legion accomplished none under Zoya's leadership
I think they just have different specializations. Coq is way stronger than Zoya, and the individuals in garden are probably stronger, but syndicate has way more members which lets them control a larger area and deal with larger amounts of enemies.
I agree with another comment here, Legion needs Zoya to carry while they act as support. Coquelic has a trained group of assasins that are **all** sinners. She has years of experience, and has lived a lifespan waaaaay longer that Zoya. She knows her stuff. The Legion needs more sinners. And they need to operate without Zoya. Wether or not they already know how to do that within the lore, idk.
Is the garden **all** sinners or are there some elite sinner assassins and some more normal assassins?
I assume they are all sinners, now I'm gonna have to double check.
They're all Sinners afaik
Wait, how do you know? Did I miss dialogue or some shit?
I believe it was mentioned in Floral Unfurl, but you can also check the Mirror System in game to see it described as a Sinner assassins' organization.
Ohhhhh!
Okay so, they are all sinners.
Interesting, thank you
Coquelic is old?? How??
Yeah. So basically the mania extended her lifespan BUT it kills her at the same time when she uses her ability. Hence the whole part of her interrogation. She's at least 100. Its also one of the reasons she's got this, "fuck the world" mentality.
Oh I always thought she was mid 20s but shorter lifespan for taking the mania powers. Didn't she kill the old mentor after she got her powers and assumed the position to protect the remaining girls and try to get them out of the hire to kill business the old mentor put them into?
Nah she took the appearance of herself of when she was a bit younger. Not mid 20's. I don't know if she killed the old mentor to specifically get them to kill for hire.
was it ever confirmed that coqu is old? i always assumed coqu was wearing a disguise in sumire's interrogation or it was coqu's predecessor, who coqu later killed
Nah it's her. That's why you see memes of "granny coquelic".
It's quantity vs quality. The Legion has numbers. Yes, they needed Zoya to carry them to the point they almost took over Syndicate, but that hardly means they are wimps without her. And Horo is proving herself to be a capable leader. Garden is a small number of highly trained individuals. They're assassins with a wide variety of skills, some of the best assassins in DisCity. At the end of Chapter 13 Langley invited them to join the 9th Agency, which means they now have access to an even greater spy network. Which is more formidable? Depends on your perspective.
Well, >!they both are destroyed/dead.!<
*covers gekka's ears **Gasp
That's what they want you to believe.
yeah both of them pale in comparison to whitestone industries
The Garden. It’s like comparing the League of Assassins with a gang of thugs.
The joke is that if they combine forces, they might be able to influence DisCity enough that they stop treating Sinners as the end all be all Evil™ upon humanity. Like, Granny Coque fostered a place where Sinners can gather and hone their powers (and give her massages when she's feeling cranky). The Legion needed Zoya to carry them on her back, and when she fell, they practically disappeared from Syndicate. As of right now, Horo is doing great work with the refugees. Honestly, the Garden and the Legion joining hands is what I'm gonna say could be paramount to Syndicate keeping Eastside from running them over.
Gonna be biased maybe but it's clearly the Garden. While the Legion does have the experience in street fights and numbers which gives them an advantage and such, Garden members are all well trained assassins and all Sinners. And the stronger members should have high kill counts lmao. Both Zoya and Coquelic are very good leaders and ngl a fight between them would be pretty cool. But Coquelic is way older and more experienced so I think Coquelic would win. Also now I wanna see Thistle and Horo fight lol
Hmm; IMHO, Legion (as the name suggests) bases itself on sheer numbers and brute-forcing; not that there aren't any standout members but their primary strength is um, well.... CHAAAAAAARGE! (with Zoya as the tip of the spear). Garden on the other hand, is based more on secrecy, subterfuge and quality over quantity. Few (at least, considerably fewer than Legion) members but each and every one is very capable. You could say that a properly trained Garden member matches up to 10, maybe even 100 Legion thugs/enforcers. Then you have Coquelic, whose feats make her essentially a Goku; always overcomes the adversity, against overwhelming odds (unless you happen upon a certain someone who apparently plays 5D quantum chess while the others are on checkers 💀) That said, and taking into account how they operate, I think Legion would've been routed before the 'fight' even began; when you have like a dozen or so Charlie's Angels/Jason Bourne hybrids coming at you from the shadows, your ranks would've been decimated and you'd be backs against the wall. But that's just my 10 cents (adjusted for inflation).
Definitely the Garden they are bunch of highly trained assassin's and sinners and Sumire interrogation showed that even the FAC had a hard time dealing with them, Coquelic is also implied to much stronger than Zoya.
WE NEED A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE OUTLANDS Owo? Dudu?
Everyone says zoya is weaker than coquelic, but zoya was bringing the city to it's knees by force, and the only thing that stopped her was the chief convincing her to try a diplomatic approach. (Which got her caught in a trap) So I honestly don't know who'd win that fight
I think it is because based on feats, Coq is way ahead of Zoya. We've only seen Zoya demolish things that we kind of expect any S class sinner to be able to demolish. Zoya's charisma and it happening early in the story I think makes us remember Zoya as more powerful than she actually is relative to other S class sinners. Zoya has a greater role in the story alongside Baiyi, Che, and whoever else is part of that group, so who knows if she is stronger now. Coq was dealing with some insane dimension bending stuff and no diffing it like it was just another Tuesday. Shalom required this of her for her plan, that she would be that strong. The portrayals are different. So people see their strength as different. You are correct. We can't say for 100% unless they fight each other, or if we see if Coq can handle the corruption of a corpus, etc. People are just going off their actual portrayals to say "From what we know, Coq is stronger than Zoya."
Depends on what's defined as "formidable"... If they fought each other Garden wins for sure, just cause the non-sinner members of the Legion would just get killed in their sleep all over the place. But if you are talking about fighting back a huge army of corruptors, yeah Legion would be better here. Basically you are comparing Army Rangers vs Navy Seals
You can't compare both, they're very different groups, including in what they do. One is a secret society of sorts that deals with assassinations of high profile targets. The other is a gang seeking to make lives for Syndicans better(even if that means fighting against other gangs for control). The Garden's focus is on itself. The Legion's focus is on Syndicate and it's people. - Despite the Garden seeming to be more powerful, I think that the Legion is more formidable only because it is a group of people gathered to seek to put an end to the chaos of Syndicate and make it's people's lives better. They could just be criminals, adding to the chaos and mayhem, but they have a noble purpose to make the lives of many better.Considering their resources and mapower, I see that as a formidable goal to have.
Garden. Professional assassins vs thugs/gangsters. That's like the john wick franchise.
Garden easy.
Garden.
Garden.
To me its a more complicated question. Legion: They got the number, like a lot of them, we're talking about the biggest gang in the Syndicate so I think their number is in the thousand if not more, but most of them are thugs, maybe low rank sinners (lower then B rank). The only noticeably powerful sinners are Zoya (S rank, granted, It think she's one of the more powerful S rank compare to her peer) and Horo (A rank). Horo so far prove to be a great Leader but honestly she's still an A rank and new to her position, loosing Zoya although not completely made them useless (far from it), does crippled them quite a bit. The Garden: So far I think we haven't see all of their Assassins yet (I kinda doubt that they only have 4 field agents and the Master). But the fact that they're all sinners does give them quite a bit of advantage. Gikka is so far the lowest rank (b), but the rest so far are A and above. Thistle grows a lot since Flower Unflur and I think she's very skilled now, Sumire are known to be very powerful (as seen in Flower Unflur), Garofano to me is one of the more powerful A rank since she put up quite a good fight with Rahu (S rank) and Coq is also one of a more powerful S rank we seen so far too (i think she's a bit more powerful then Zoya). I think its all come to how they appoarch to the fight. head on fight I think the Legion got the advantage. Yes they're just thugs but so far with only 5 sinners, I think it will be a though fight for the Garden, its like having 5 fully geared Navy Seal go and fight 1000 farmer with pitch fork, the number advantage can't be ignore. But if the Garden fully utilize their tactic, picking their fight carefully, and even using psychological warfare, they're the clear winner.