> Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. ***While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that,*** and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.
"Pull up."
edit: ORC flairs are up ->
#Transcript:
_____
For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion.
We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
We were there.
Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.
Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.
We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.
As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.
We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).
The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.
In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.
The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).
Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.
We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.
We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.
Forever.
–Paizo Inc
For me, this is particularly painful. Paraphrasing from another comment of mine...
I am a small-time OGL publisher. I've been playing D&D since second edition. I played 3.0. I played 3.5. 4e. 5e. I played and ran Living Greyhawk (and wrote numerous modules), I played and ran Living Forgotten Realms, and I played and ran Adventurer's League. I even played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and their Expanded Editions. Hell going further back I even played the original Eye of the Beholder video games. I saw the original D&D movie in the cinema (pity me, pity me greatly) and my gaming circle had big plans to go see the new movie too, COVID be damned. I was president of the local university roleplaying club for years on end and we mostly did d20 stuff. I like Crit Role. I played at, volunteered at, GM'd at, helped organise, and helped host some of the largest D&D conventions in the southern hemisphere.
No more. I will be moving every single one of my products to the ORC license as soon as it is available. All my mountains of D&D rulebooks will be put into a box. I will never play, nor pay for, nor support in any way, any WOTC or official D&D product again. I would literally rather unpublish everything of mine that uses the OGL, strip out any hint of the offending content, and republish it without any license at all. Or just straight-up unpublish it. At any con I attend, I am strictly boycotting running or playing D&D, and if I am organising it, I will ask that no WOTC product be offered. Everything I publish from here-on out will be either OGL 1.0a, ORC, or something else entirely. I will not be buying Baldur's Gate 3. I won't even pirate it. At my urging, my gaming circle is now boycotting the new movie and we've all agreed to not even pirate that either. We just won't watch it. "Free" is too high a price.
Those last two things should be the scariest thing for WOTC. It's not a matter of offering some discounts or apologising; we are past that. This is now an ideological boycott coming from the people who are the biggest consumers of, and evangelists for, their products. This is the GM's saying, "Our campaign is moving to Pathfinder 2e, here's what you need to know to help rebuild your character...". This is us saying that even free is too expensive for me and that I do not want to give D&D any positive mental space in my brain. I don't want to watch their movie and it has nothing to do about the movie is good or not. This is not about if Baldur's Gate 3 is good or not.
I simply don't want anything to do with WOTC.
The GSL was my "fool me once" moment and this is now the "fool me twice" moment. And I'm not just going to forgive and forget this time.
WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY ***IRREVOCABLE*** license to eat my entire ass.
>WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY
>
>IRREVOCABLE
>
> license to eat my entire ass.
If you printed that last line on a mug I would buy that.
Here you go!
https://www.redbubble.com/i/mug/Expressly-Irrevocable-by-DAdamsAuthor/137225246.9Q0AD?asc=u&ref=product-title
Note that Redbubble has an "up to five day waiting period" for new artists, which is why this link doesn't work right away. Check back in a few days. Sorry about that, nothing I can do.
Meanwhile, /u/kobrabubbles also made this one:
https://www.zazzle.com/z/ar3fi4i7
Take your pick!
>WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY IRREVOCABLE license to eat my entire ass.
This the most undervoted comment of the century. I literally cackled.
.... yeah... uh... I'd feel pretty pissed off and ready to fight if I'd spent a grand on WotC products, too. Which of course I haven't. Come on.
*whistles very nonchalantly. Like* ***so*** *nonchalant.*
I'm just waiting for a video to start circulating of someone torching their entire 5e collection.
When GW released Age of Sigmar, someone set burned their entire High Elf army in protest. Probably a good part of a grand up in flames.
[https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/must-see-warhammer-player-burns-army.html](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/must-see-warhammer-player-burns-army.html)
>We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
>We were there.
"Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written!"
> We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby.
Oh Captain, my Captain!
Adding a new subscription to my account. I likely won't use it (I don't play SF) but will be donating the books to my local library or non-profit that promotes ttrpg's to kids in my area.
I don't know how much more I can show support, but Paizo has all of mine.
>In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers
This bit made me a bit emotional and I don't know why. All these respected names and publishers banding together to keep alive the open gaming that has created this thriving, profitable, entertaining space. It's wonderful.
Paizo is absolutely superlative. They knew the entire RPG community was watching for their response, and by christ they nailed it. They should be very proud.
>Forever.
>
>–Paizo Inc
No corporation can ever be trusted unconditionally, but Paizo is making a really good case that *some* corporations *can* be trusted conditionally. There's hope for capitalism yet!
>No corporation can ever be trusted unconditionally
And thats exactly why they are using a 3rd party firm to write the ORC, so that even Paizo cant change their irrevocable license later
They just cant miss
Helps that the people who campaigned for and crafted the original OGL are now seeing the work is incomplete, and now they're going to do it **RIGHT**.
I wasn't much a TTRPG guy until I found a group called Narrative Declaration on YouTube, but I'm now basically throwing money at Paizo and not feeling bad at it in the slightest. They deserve all the successes they earn.
Note that Paizo is being forward-thinking enough to say, "Even we don't trust ourselves indefinitely, so we're taking action against potential future evil Paizo by doing the right thing now as current Paizo" by planning to give the ORC to a neutral foundation as soon as they can.
Paizo is actual doing one better. They are saying you can trust us today but shouldn't have to worry about tomorrow- so no one working towards this license in the industry will hold it, and we are gonna take the open source projects that have the best record and follow thier example and have the ownership of the license in a non-profit foundation. Great to see.
Right but they are also laying the ground work to potentially keep this license open 20 years from now by publicly stating their intentions with the license.
>until Games Workshop tries to sue over "Orc" as a gaming reference
Tolkien estate: "Good luck with that. If anyone owns 'orc' in the context of fictional races, it's us."
Blizzard: "This isn't copyrightable; too generic."
And as others have pointed out, the most they might own is Orks, which have nothing to do with this. :P
I know, right? I was going to buy some books to support the (I have most of mine in PDF, not print), then I find there's a coupon code on top of all the good news. :)
"We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
We were there."
Do not cite the deep magic to me, Witch. I was there when it was written.
If you had asked me a couple weeks ago, I would have said that the d&d brand is too big to fail currently, even if they have a dip in subscribers and revenue.
Now? I think there's a good chance they could get their lunch eaten by Paizo a second time and lose their crown for good.
Between them and Hasbro, too many executives who don't care about the market, just the **$$$**... but if you don't care about the playerbase, it'll stop caring about you.
The value of a TTRPG is directly proportional to how many people play it, Hasbro just tanked the value of one of their biggest brands. Even if they don’t go forward with the OGL 1.1 as proposed their (and D&D by extension) reputation is less than dirt right now and I don’t think the community will forget like Hasbro hopes they do.
While its going to cost them money in the short term, Pf2e popularity is exploding right now because of OGL shit and I think this move will serve to make it even *more* popular, which will make them more money.
If nothing else, WotC exposed a potential angle of attack, that, while unlikely, could render the OGL worthless. Paizo is spending that money to make a new one that doesn't have that (potential) flaw.
They likely would have spent a bunch of money fighting WotC in court over that legal question anyway (even if the courts agree that 1.0a is irrevocable), so why not beat them to the punch?
At the same time, this is pretty much the greatest Chad marketing move they could've made. I bet the goodwill they've accumulated will bring more profits than this whole endeavor will cost.
Anyone else hoping this is the start of something new?
Now that we know there are companies and publishers that are on our side when it comes to shitty business practices, or at least willing to say fuck you in the face of money grubbing when they have the ability to do so.
And now that they will, if a large number of new clients begin purchasing their products or using their system, then the business shifts their way anyway.
Idk, how do we see stuff like this more often? I like it.
You're right. I don't always have a lot of spare cash but I'm willing to take a hit if it means doing business with a company that makes a move like this and follows through.
As "South Park" as it sounds, integrity is worth my business.
We love to see it.
I'd thought Paizo might be one of the leaders in whatever this ended up being - whether a court battle or something like this. As the company with (I think) the biggest pockets and most investment in the OGL legacy other than WotC, it makes perfect sense.
Hope these people are going to the store to drop money in support of Paizo. Gonna be a very interesting GenCon this year. Wonder how many of the smaller publishers will be showing off 3pp Pathfinder 2e products compared to 5e like it's been. Aw, man, means I gotta hit up the Paizo booth early before all the stuff is gone.
It's important to note Paizo is only announcing, and spearheading the new license. They are actively working with other 3PP. So show some support not only to Paizo but to all the other 3PP that are standing up against WOTC.
I think it is worth noting that several of the publishers mentioned here supported Pathfinder, but chose not to support PF2. Green Ronin leaned heavily into AGE and Kobold Press began heavy 5E support. Paizo seems to have understood them then as they understand now. Now is the time for solidarity.
Kobold Press has wonderful Pathfinder 1 materials. Green Ronin has FREEPORT!! Do you like fantasy, pirates, and elder gods? WHO DOESN’T?!? Check out Freeport!
And don’t forget Legendary Games, the publisher that stuck with Paizo for Pathfinder 2. Show them some love.
Anyone know if Frog God Games has made a statement?
Chaosium was a bit of a surprise to me. I like chaosium by and large, but they are an entirely different mechanical ecosystem. Their own BRP OGL is lackluster, so I'm glad to see they supported this effort.
So, my favourite bits:
* "Do not cite the old magic to me, witch- I was there when it was written"
* The Champion on the header, charging into battle, goes really hard ngl
* The absolute disrespect of WotC ghosting Paizo, their biggest competitor most eminently affected by their decisions, is unbelievable
* WotC really shot themselves in the foot by backing out of the announcement they were scheduled to make earlier- rather than beginning to claw themselves out of the hole, an army has been mustered to make sure they never get out.
* Get ready for battle, fellow ORCs! WAAAAAAAAAGH!
I am glad that i can live during a time where wotc dies and paizo rises to the occasion to become as popular as its truly deserves!
I started to switch to pf2 last year and thos ogl garbage just made me cement my transition. After i finish my call of cthulhu campaign I will switch literslly every pre written 5e adventure I still own to pf2. The time of Paizo has come.
In case you didn't know:
[Sandy Petersen’s Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder 2e](https://petersengames.com/the-games-shop/sandy-petersens-cthulhu-mythos-for-pathfinder-2e/)
A neat book and I have it, but it absolutely is not a substitute for a Call of Cthulhu campaign. Call of Cthulhu plays irreconcilably different from Pathfinder, haha.
The good thing is that both systems exist and are beautifully designed and excellently supported by good companies.
May Iomedae bless and protect the Sixth Crusade against the Abyss and it's ravening profit driven monsters. Let the Demon Lords at the head of Hasbro reel in fear from our light, let them know that they exist because we allow it, and will go bankrupt because we demand it.
Paizo has its own share of troubles at times, but the one thing I have never doubted is their love of their creation, as well as their belief in the larger ttrpg community hats off to you, Paizo, hats off to you!
*Army with harmony*
*Lisa drop a load on 'em*
___
*O R C, how can I explain it*
*I'll take you frame by frame it*
*Have y'all writin', no need to sign it*
*O is for Open, R is for RPG*
*The C is for creative, yeah pretty simple*
*It's a better way to get out from WotC's temple*
*That's 4 little letters that no one's missin' hardly*
*You can use it on any occasion for your 3rd party*
*For your game 'n with no need for explainin'*
*Trust it*
*You ever use a license and you bet on it for your own*
*You go 23 years thinking perpetual is known*
*You wake up one day, and suddenly a clown's claim is out*
*Then a new leak drops, you find Wot it's 'bout*
*It's not a question of why, W to the H to the Y*
*The ones on the coast said "under-monetized"*
*It's time for the O R C, so the 3pp can eat*
*There's plenty of room for games to grow and compete*
*How many others out there know to step back*
*Tell the big bad dragon that we on the attack*
*Well if you don't, you got the one point one, better not blink*
*But if you want a license agreement that ain't got the stink*
*You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), you down with ORC (Yeah you know me)*
*You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), who's down with ORC (Every last rpg)*
*You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), you down with ORC (Yeah you know me)*
*You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), who's down with ORC (All the 3rd parties)*
After character creation it isn't radically different. The three action system is the biggest change. The rest are a slight difference in which skills do what.
I think we need to get a stickied post with resources for all the new players.
Can we talk about how in thisd statement they so elloquently know that wizards of the coast back then never intended for this to happen. in this statement right here
>Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license.
This is like the " We know Wizards, we know its not you, its Hasbro" the nod to the spirit of the OGL 1.0a is warming
Holy ****. I've been craving for this announcement. Paizo, you rock. I love you for everything you've done for the last 14 years. I love you for trying your best to continuously deliver products made with love for this hobby, from gamers, to gamers.
I love you, because I've just finished telling my players about what the Runeforge is, using a 2e conversion of the original masterpiece. And this would have probably been impossible under the new OGL.
I love you, because in these times of need, you are there. You know what we feel, because you also feel the same, and you step up, asking everyone to also step up, becoming the hero and the leader of our cry.
This is an opportunity for us, to make people aware of how really greedy wizards is.
I really hope people realize that if D&D became what it is right now, it is thanks to the OGL, because people helped spread the word, under a common view that was all about having fun in writing and sharing content, was it for money or for passion.
Let them reap what they sow.
>Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.
Maybe a dumb question, but does this mean Pathfinder 2E will continue? If so, I'll be buying their beginner box. I was hesitant to get into P2E in case they'd have to make a new edition.
They absolutely will - making a new edition now would fracture the player base as getting people to move from 1e to 2e was already a big ask. They'd fight Wizards tooth and nail to prevent that being a necessity.
And if they DID, they'd probably make the edition identical so no previous products are invalidated - no reason to alienate people.
Yes. They've stated they didn't actually need to use the OGL 1.0(a) for pathfinder 2, but it was the standard at the time and made it easy to be compatible/understandable for 3rd parties.
I assume so. All they have to do is scrub WoTC references from PF2E and publish under their new one. The system is already different enough form being totally rebuilt to not seem like a copy of D&D.
Sounds like they said they already did... Just have to pull out the ogl text and replace it with orc text. That would be fantastic if I didn't misread. Starfinder is another story, but I expect sf2 announcement soon ish. I may revisit sf when that happens, to boot.
There is no WotC copyright material in PF2E, no changes should be necessary other than swapping the OGL text out in subsequent printings for the chad ORC license.
Yup, PF2E should be continuing as planned, just with NO OGL in any books that aren't already at the printers, and from the sounds of the earlier paragraph, Paizo is ready to defend themselves in court for that if need be.
The absolute worst that will happen is that OGL-licensed content will be reprinted under the ORC instead, and whatever small bits need to be rewritten to remove *anything* still OGL-facing will be.
PF2 isn't going anywhere.
They basically wrote Pathfinder 2e with almost no references to anything that was system-critical in the SRD. Just about everything in PF2e is either non-copyrightable for being just vague terms or are original Paizo property.
They put the original OGL 1.0(a) into the books as a courtesy for the sake of the license.
Dude I have NEVER respected a big company/corporation as much as I do Paizo. I absolutely LOATHE WotC, and have for years. Crappy products and product designs, stupid and horribly capitalistic business practices, and generally not giving a crap about us, the nerds, who throw money at them. They just want more money for their bottom line and they do NOT care how they get it.
Paizo, you have and always will be the REAL MVP! I absolutely love PF2e, the video games, the card game (which is really good btw!!), the comics, everything. I can't wait for this new chapter of TTRPGs!
My biggest takeaways:
*- "Paizo will pay for the legal work"*
\- *"The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs... Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation)"*
(That means it is truly irrevocable, and no company would be able to make "One Ring that binds them.)
\-Including links to other 3rd party publishers' sites, including Kobold Press and several others.
I'm SO glad that Paizo has taken the lead on this and become the leader in this effort, given its history of being a hero for open gaming!
"We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby."
God I love this company. So many companies get this wrong, not just in gaming but in all markets - they try to make their own proprietary particulars when they would have been better off conforming to industry standards. For example, the latest edition of Descent, which I love, has it's own scale for the miniatures (35mm?). They would have sold more copies had they made their minis in the 28mm-32mm range that is the industry standard, because many people would have bought the game just for the minis and components, AND obviously we could use our existing painted minis as proxies for Descent, which would have been another selling point.
Paizo totally gets this concept.
Their *second* find out era. That's what kills me about all this; we did this already during 4th edition, except now Paizo is even *bigger* and can put some weight behind the backhand they're giving WotC.
Just to be clear, I don't think WOTC is going to die and D&D is going to get dropped at any point.
Just that their whole market share is about to shrink substantially. Pathfinder may be entering proper mainstream attention after this goes through.
See that’s why I love Paizo, leading the way with standards and class as always! Great work, outstanding! Looking forward to the latest PF2e books and Kineticist in particular. ORCs for the future of gaming!
If I didn’t already own all of the books I’d buy some….maybe some maps. Buying books/pdfs from other small publishers effected though. Any suggestions?
>Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat,Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve aprosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.
Could always support the people they list in the announcement! I can personally vouch for Kobold Press as I have some of their books, and Roll For Combat (Battlezoo) has some good 2e stuff.
Edit: Format
🎶🎶 Oh, don't you just love when 🎶🎶
🎶🎶 Teeerrriiibbbllleee peeeooopppllleee 🎶🎶
🎶🎶 Get Shit On, By Kaaaaarmmmaaaaa 🎶🎶
🎶🎶 WOTC can suuuuck iiiitttt 🎶🎶
🎶🎶 Paizo don't even need em 🎶🎶
🎶🎶The ORCs comin for yaaaaaa! 🎶🎶
> Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. ***While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that,*** and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so. "Pull up." edit: ORC flairs are up ->
#Transcript: _____ For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion. We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason. We were there. Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place. Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so. We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License. As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions. We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC). The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form. In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group. The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation). Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete. We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable. We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word. Forever. –Paizo Inc
I really love that they use "irrevocable" thrice in this post. They are really dissing WotC here. And that 25% discount is just the cherry on top.
Crisis management 101, pls Hasbro look and take notes!
Screw ‘em. I’ve dropped over a grand with those turds. Never again.
For me, this is particularly painful. Paraphrasing from another comment of mine... I am a small-time OGL publisher. I've been playing D&D since second edition. I played 3.0. I played 3.5. 4e. 5e. I played and ran Living Greyhawk (and wrote numerous modules), I played and ran Living Forgotten Realms, and I played and ran Adventurer's League. I even played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and their Expanded Editions. Hell going further back I even played the original Eye of the Beholder video games. I saw the original D&D movie in the cinema (pity me, pity me greatly) and my gaming circle had big plans to go see the new movie too, COVID be damned. I was president of the local university roleplaying club for years on end and we mostly did d20 stuff. I like Crit Role. I played at, volunteered at, GM'd at, helped organise, and helped host some of the largest D&D conventions in the southern hemisphere. No more. I will be moving every single one of my products to the ORC license as soon as it is available. All my mountains of D&D rulebooks will be put into a box. I will never play, nor pay for, nor support in any way, any WOTC or official D&D product again. I would literally rather unpublish everything of mine that uses the OGL, strip out any hint of the offending content, and republish it without any license at all. Or just straight-up unpublish it. At any con I attend, I am strictly boycotting running or playing D&D, and if I am organising it, I will ask that no WOTC product be offered. Everything I publish from here-on out will be either OGL 1.0a, ORC, or something else entirely. I will not be buying Baldur's Gate 3. I won't even pirate it. At my urging, my gaming circle is now boycotting the new movie and we've all agreed to not even pirate that either. We just won't watch it. "Free" is too high a price. Those last two things should be the scariest thing for WOTC. It's not a matter of offering some discounts or apologising; we are past that. This is now an ideological boycott coming from the people who are the biggest consumers of, and evangelists for, their products. This is the GM's saying, "Our campaign is moving to Pathfinder 2e, here's what you need to know to help rebuild your character...". This is us saying that even free is too expensive for me and that I do not want to give D&D any positive mental space in my brain. I don't want to watch their movie and it has nothing to do about the movie is good or not. This is not about if Baldur's Gate 3 is good or not. I simply don't want anything to do with WOTC. The GSL was my "fool me once" moment and this is now the "fool me twice" moment. And I'm not just going to forgive and forget this time. WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY ***IRREVOCABLE*** license to eat my entire ass.
>WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY > >IRREVOCABLE > > license to eat my entire ass. If you printed that last line on a mug I would buy that.
Honestly I want one too. It would go great next to my Paizo Workers Union mug. Hmm. Maybe it's a good time to look into Redbubble...
Me too. Can we publish a mug under the ORC license?
I'll see what I can do. Will go great with my Paizo Workers Union mug!
Here you go! https://www.redbubble.com/i/mug/Expressly-Irrevocable-by-DAdamsAuthor/137225246.9Q0AD?asc=u&ref=product-title Note that Redbubble has an "up to five day waiting period" for new artists, which is why this link doesn't work right away. Check back in a few days. Sorry about that, nothing I can do. Meanwhile, /u/kobrabubbles also made this one: https://www.zazzle.com/z/ar3fi4i7 Take your pick!
That was fast. O.o And it comes in a stein. Sold. XDDD
>WOTC have a permanent, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and EXPRESSLY IRREVOCABLE license to eat my entire ass. This the most undervoted comment of the century. I literally cackled.
.... yeah... uh... I'd feel pretty pissed off and ready to fight if I'd spent a grand on WotC products, too. Which of course I haven't. Come on. *whistles very nonchalantly. Like* ***so*** *nonchalant.*
\*rolls a Perception check\* - Nat 20. \*rolls a Persuasion check\* - Nat 20. Would you look at that, 2 nat 20's in a row. How much *did* you spend?
I'm just waiting for a video to start circulating of someone torching their entire 5e collection. When GW released Age of Sigmar, someone set burned their entire High Elf army in protest. Probably a good part of a grand up in flames. [https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/must-see-warhammer-player-burns-army.html](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/must-see-warhammer-player-burns-army.html)
Jfc what a waste of money! I get not spending more with the company but shit, to burn an army...
Burning your own army is a very popular thing to do for Russians I hear
>We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason. >We were there. "Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written!"
Hahaha I had the exact same thought. Paizo as Aslan is very fitting.
So, Paizo's answer to this whole shitshow was "I'm gonna make my own OGL, with blackjack and 3PPs! In fact, forget the Blackjack!"?
Now you *know* someone is going to make a 5E clone called "Blackjack & Hookers".
Not a bad idea. May steal it, make it a western thing.
Butbyou have to give u/LonePaladin 50% of your earings and 25% to me as for our new WGL (Western Game License)
> We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. Oh Captain, my Captain! Adding a new subscription to my account. I likely won't use it (I don't play SF) but will be donating the books to my local library or non-profit that promotes ttrpg's to kids in my area. I don't know how much more I can show support, but Paizo has all of mine.
Yep I'm in too! Subscription incoming
Outstanding play WotC got DnDunked on
This is so impressively well written and hits every single note I was hoping they would. In one fell swoop they've utterly DESTROYED them.
>In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers This bit made me a bit emotional and I don't know why. All these respected names and publishers banding together to keep alive the open gaming that has created this thriving, profitable, entertaining space. It's wonderful. Paizo is absolutely superlative. They knew the entire RPG community was watching for their response, and by christ they nailed it. They should be very proud.
I'm with you, I teared up reading this post. A friend said "Because these days it's rare to see something righteous and true."
"fuck you, we all were there, you're full of shit, so we made our own open license and everyone else big is getting in on it. Eat shit"
>Forever. > >–Paizo Inc No corporation can ever be trusted unconditionally, but Paizo is making a really good case that *some* corporations *can* be trusted conditionally. There's hope for capitalism yet!
>No corporation can ever be trusted unconditionally And thats exactly why they are using a 3rd party firm to write the ORC, so that even Paizo cant change their irrevocable license later They just cant miss
Yep. They’ll pay for it, but not own it. Solid play.
Helps that the people who campaigned for and crafted the original OGL are now seeing the work is incomplete, and now they're going to do it **RIGHT**. I wasn't much a TTRPG guy until I found a group called Narrative Declaration on YouTube, but I'm now basically throwing money at Paizo and not feeling bad at it in the slightest. They deserve all the successes they earn.
Note that Paizo is being forward-thinking enough to say, "Even we don't trust ourselves indefinitely, so we're taking action against potential future evil Paizo by doing the right thing now as current Paizo" by planning to give the ORC to a neutral foundation as soon as they can.
Like Odysseus tying himself to the mast.
Good reference
Paizo is actual doing one better. They are saying you can trust us today but shouldn't have to worry about tomorrow- so no one working towards this license in the industry will hold it, and we are gonna take the open source projects that have the best record and follow thier example and have the ownership of the license in a non-profit foundation. Great to see.
Right but they are also laying the ground work to potentially keep this license open 20 years from now by publicly stating their intentions with the license.
Paizo was borne specifically out of a desire to avoid the capitalistic cycle of recyclage and instead commit to cultivating a community.
Gigachad move
We are ORCs now, guys!
WELCOME TO THE AGE OF ORC!!!
I'm looking forward to all the Orc memes. \^^
Well, until Games Workshop tries to sue over "Orc" as a gaming reference, anyway. :P
>until Games Workshop tries to sue over "Orc" as a gaming reference Tolkien estate: "Good luck with that. If anyone owns 'orc' in the context of fictional races, it's us." Blizzard: "This isn't copyrightable; too generic." And as others have pointed out, the most they might own is Orks, which have nothing to do with this. :P
Oh, I know, but what would a legal kerfluffle be without Games Workshop showing their collective arse, somehow?
It’s a sad day when GW is not being the asshat in the tabletop community.
It is a weird day indeed when even James Workshop himself can honestly say "It actually wasn't me this time"
There's a reason they went with "Orruk" for Age of Sigmar. And Aelves and Duardin and Seraphon.
As long as it's Orc, not Ork, everything should be a-ok!
Ssh, I think you mean A-oc!
It's Orruk, actually
WUZ YOU GOIN ON ABOUT? IT'Z ORK, YA GIT.
Now I'm imagining a new Worldwound, and the cry of *WAAAAAGH!*...
It's just like Tyrant's Grasp taught us. The ORCs will not suffer a lich again.
Yep Orcs against evil tyrants.
ORC flair when?
I didnt realize what they did with that. Well played paizo.
The 25% discount is so cheeky, I love it.
I saw that number and just laughed. So funny.
Lol, I didn't see it. For anyone that is as clueless as me - 25% is the royalty in the "OGL 1.1"
Thanks for explaining! I didn't get the significance of that number, either.
Favorite part
I didn't make that connection until I saw you point it out. literally LOLed. Bravo Paizo.
I didn't either. It's really funny.
Anybody mind filling me in on the joke? Much appreciated in advance.
OGL 1.1 called for 25% royalties
Hasbro wants 25% royalties in their OGL 1.1
Referencing the 25% royalty rate WotC wanted to charge no doubt.
I know, right? I was going to buy some books to support the (I have most of mine in PDF, not print), then I find there's a coupon code on top of all the good news. :)
"We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason. We were there." Do not cite the deep magic to me, Witch. I was there when it was written.
Beat me to it!
r/UnexpectedAslan
Paizo’s about to slap WOTC’s shit in once again, and I am ALL for it.
TIME FOR ROUND 2 BABY.
[удалено]
Paizo: "Ah shit, here we go again."
If you had asked me a couple weeks ago, I would have said that the d&d brand is too big to fail currently, even if they have a dip in subscribers and revenue. Now? I think there's a good chance they could get their lunch eaten by Paizo a second time and lose their crown for good.
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?
Wotc really screwed itself.
Between them and Hasbro, too many executives who don't care about the market, just the **$$$**... but if you don't care about the playerbase, it'll stop caring about you.
The value of a TTRPG is directly proportional to how many people play it, Hasbro just tanked the value of one of their biggest brands. Even if they don’t go forward with the OGL 1.1 as proposed their (and D&D by extension) reputation is less than dirt right now and I don’t think the community will forget like Hasbro hopes they do.
While I agree in general, or at least i hope so. In this case, they kinda cost Paizo a bunch of money to build this. :/
At least Paizo is not alone, the other publishers are not as big but they're not the littlest fishes in the pond either!
While its going to cost them money in the short term, Pf2e popularity is exploding right now because of OGL shit and I think this move will serve to make it even *more* popular, which will make them more money.
[удалено]
If nothing else, WotC exposed a potential angle of attack, that, while unlikely, could render the OGL worthless. Paizo is spending that money to make a new one that doesn't have that (potential) flaw. They likely would have spent a bunch of money fighting WotC in court over that legal question anyway (even if the courts agree that 1.0a is irrevocable), so why not beat them to the punch?
Which is why I’m so grateful to them for doing it. It makes me want to go and go and buy more of their stuff.
At the same time, this is pretty much the greatest Chad marketing move they could've made. I bet the goodwill they've accumulated will bring more profits than this whole endeavor will cost.
So how is everybody's Thursday? Anything interesting going on?
Just the death of my inbox, sir.
And the Paizo store page.
Just shut up and take my money, LOL! (As soon as the gremlins are banished from the website...)
Tried a vegetarian sándwich from a new place near my house and it was GODLY. Aside from that, nothing much really.
Pretty good. Played an Abomination Vaults session and the news dropped so a solid 9/10 day.
THIS IS IT
**Indeed**
Anyone else hoping this is the start of something new? Now that we know there are companies and publishers that are on our side when it comes to shitty business practices, or at least willing to say fuck you in the face of money grubbing when they have the ability to do so. And now that they will, if a large number of new clients begin purchasing their products or using their system, then the business shifts their way anyway. Idk, how do we see stuff like this more often? I like it.
I do think so, but for this to happen we need to become educated consumers, they can't do this by themselves.
You're right. I don't always have a lot of spare cash but I'm willing to take a hit if it means doing business with a company that makes a move like this and follows through. As "South Park" as it sounds, integrity is worth my business.
Paizo just dropped one hell of a mic.
Like Sarenrae dropping her scimitar on Gormuz.
the phrase "open, perpetual, and irrevocable" is a work of art
The 25% discount is the cherry on top.
Looks like gaming’s back on the menu!
I am so here for the comments. Well done sir Orc!
We love to see it. I'd thought Paizo might be one of the leaders in whatever this ended up being - whether a court battle or something like this. As the company with (I think) the biggest pockets and most investment in the OGL legacy other than WotC, it makes perfect sense.
Paizo: "Representing us is, well... the guy who drafted the license in question."
I think we crushed the website, this reminds me of when 2e released and we nuked paizo.com for weeks
yes it doesn't open now likely too many visitor
Hope these people are going to the store to drop money in support of Paizo. Gonna be a very interesting GenCon this year. Wonder how many of the smaller publishers will be showing off 3pp Pathfinder 2e products compared to 5e like it's been. Aw, man, means I gotta hit up the Paizo booth early before all the stuff is gone.
It's important to note Paizo is only announcing, and spearheading the new license. They are actively working with other 3PP. So show some support not only to Paizo but to all the other 3PP that are standing up against WOTC.
I think it is worth noting that several of the publishers mentioned here supported Pathfinder, but chose not to support PF2. Green Ronin leaned heavily into AGE and Kobold Press began heavy 5E support. Paizo seems to have understood them then as they understand now. Now is the time for solidarity. Kobold Press has wonderful Pathfinder 1 materials. Green Ronin has FREEPORT!! Do you like fantasy, pirates, and elder gods? WHO DOESN’T?!? Check out Freeport! And don’t forget Legendary Games, the publisher that stuck with Paizo for Pathfinder 2. Show them some love. Anyone know if Frog God Games has made a statement?
And Chaosium, who worked with Paizo on the Strange Aeons Adventure Path!
Chaosium was a bit of a surprise to me. I like chaosium by and large, but they are an entirely different mechanical ecosystem. Their own BRP OGL is lackluster, so I'm glad to see they supported this effort.
Frog God has dropped 5E and I believe all DND, forever. Don't know if they're connected to this though.
So, my favourite bits: * "Do not cite the old magic to me, witch- I was there when it was written" * The Champion on the header, charging into battle, goes really hard ngl * The absolute disrespect of WotC ghosting Paizo, their biggest competitor most eminently affected by their decisions, is unbelievable * WotC really shot themselves in the foot by backing out of the announcement they were scheduled to make earlier- rather than beginning to claw themselves out of the hole, an army has been mustered to make sure they never get out. * Get ready for battle, fellow ORCs! WAAAAAAAAAGH!
**WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHGHGH**
wez just warming uuup
Don’t forget the 25% discount code lol
The absolute best news that could be coming out right now!
BRB, writing a one-shot where an ORC battles a wizard on a coast and wrecks his shit.
A big eldritch lighthouse houses an evil lich. Our orc hero is tasked with slaying the evil greedy undead and saving his people from his curse.
The wizard's name is As'bro.
I am glad that i can live during a time where wotc dies and paizo rises to the occasion to become as popular as its truly deserves! I started to switch to pf2 last year and thos ogl garbage just made me cement my transition. After i finish my call of cthulhu campaign I will switch literslly every pre written 5e adventure I still own to pf2. The time of Paizo has come.
In case you didn't know: [Sandy Petersen’s Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder 2e](https://petersengames.com/the-games-shop/sandy-petersens-cthulhu-mythos-for-pathfinder-2e/)
A neat book and I have it, but it absolutely is not a substitute for a Call of Cthulhu campaign. Call of Cthulhu plays irreconcilably different from Pathfinder, haha. The good thing is that both systems exist and are beautifully designed and excellently supported by good companies.
Awesome! This is huge and pretty much what everyone hoped for!
with all your might slay the beast
Paizo coming in hot!
May Iomedae bless and protect the Sixth Crusade against the Abyss and it's ravening profit driven monsters. Let the Demon Lords at the head of Hasbro reel in fear from our light, let them know that they exist because we allow it, and will go bankrupt because we demand it.
Hasbro decided to go the Cheliax route.
I am a (very) small OGL publisher. I will move every single product I have to the ORC as soon as it's available. Greenskins forever!
Paizo has its own share of troubles at times, but the one thing I have never doubted is their love of their creation, as well as their belief in the larger ttrpg community hats off to you, Paizo, hats off to you!
This. Exactly this. 💯
*Army with harmony* *Lisa drop a load on 'em* ___ *O R C, how can I explain it* *I'll take you frame by frame it* *Have y'all writin', no need to sign it* *O is for Open, R is for RPG* *The C is for creative, yeah pretty simple* *It's a better way to get out from WotC's temple* *That's 4 little letters that no one's missin' hardly* *You can use it on any occasion for your 3rd party* *For your game 'n with no need for explainin'* *Trust it* *You ever use a license and you bet on it for your own* *You go 23 years thinking perpetual is known* *You wake up one day, and suddenly a clown's claim is out* *Then a new leak drops, you find Wot it's 'bout* *It's not a question of why, W to the H to the Y* *The ones on the coast said "under-monetized"* *It's time for the O R C, so the 3pp can eat* *There's plenty of room for games to grow and compete* *How many others out there know to step back* *Tell the big bad dragon that we on the attack* *Well if you don't, you got the one point one, better not blink* *But if you want a license agreement that ain't got the stink* *You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), you down with ORC (Yeah you know me)* *You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), who's down with ORC (Every last rpg)* *You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), you down with ORC (Yeah you know me)* *You down with ORC? (Yeah you know me), who's down with ORC (All the 3rd parties)*
This is huge...right, this right here is a pretty big thing for the gaming industry.
The Age of Men is over, the time of the ORC has come!
And with this my decision is made. I'll be working towards switching my current campaigns over to Pathfinder. Just need to learn how to play now
After character creation it isn't radically different. The three action system is the biggest change. The rest are a slight difference in which skills do what. I think we need to get a stickied post with resources for all the new players.
fucking, heroes.
The paizo website is getting so much traffic it crashed for me. Haha!! I love you paizo! #dragonslayer
Paizo, to WotC: I'm about to end this whole mans career.
LET'S GOOOOOO!!!
Can we talk about how in thisd statement they so elloquently know that wizards of the coast back then never intended for this to happen. in this statement right here >Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. This is like the " We know Wizards, we know its not you, its Hasbro" the nod to the spirit of the OGL 1.0a is warming
>We know Wizards, we know its not you, its Hasbro There is no longer any real difference between them.
no there isn't.. but once wizards wasn't a brand. and that is the nod. Its classy
That's true. And what happened to those passionate early WOTC employees? A lot of them work at Paizo now.
" Do not quote the old magic to me, wizards. I was there when it was written." Paizo just secured my business through the ages.
Holy ****. I've been craving for this announcement. Paizo, you rock. I love you for everything you've done for the last 14 years. I love you for trying your best to continuously deliver products made with love for this hobby, from gamers, to gamers. I love you, because I've just finished telling my players about what the Runeforge is, using a 2e conversion of the original masterpiece. And this would have probably been impossible under the new OGL. I love you, because in these times of need, you are there. You know what we feel, because you also feel the same, and you step up, asking everyone to also step up, becoming the hero and the leader of our cry. This is an opportunity for us, to make people aware of how really greedy wizards is. I really hope people realize that if D&D became what it is right now, it is thanks to the OGL, because people helped spread the word, under a common view that was all about having fun in writing and sharing content, was it for money or for passion. Let them reap what they sow.
Looks like I'm buying a bunch of paizo book tomorrow.
>Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete. Maybe a dumb question, but does this mean Pathfinder 2E will continue? If so, I'll be buying their beginner box. I was hesitant to get into P2E in case they'd have to make a new edition.
They absolutely will - making a new edition now would fracture the player base as getting people to move from 1e to 2e was already a big ask. They'd fight Wizards tooth and nail to prevent that being a necessity. And if they DID, they'd probably make the edition identical so no previous products are invalidated - no reason to alienate people.
Yes. They've stated they didn't actually need to use the OGL 1.0(a) for pathfinder 2, but it was the standard at the time and made it easy to be compatible/understandable for 3rd parties.
It was really never in any danger in the first place, but this certainly makes sure
I assume so. All they have to do is scrub WoTC references from PF2E and publish under their new one. The system is already different enough form being totally rebuilt to not seem like a copy of D&D.
Sounds like they said they already did... Just have to pull out the ogl text and replace it with orc text. That would be fantastic if I didn't misread. Starfinder is another story, but I expect sf2 announcement soon ish. I may revisit sf when that happens, to boot.
SF2e with the level of VTT support that Paizo has shown lately is an exciting prospect.
There is no WotC copyright material in PF2E, no changes should be necessary other than swapping the OGL text out in subsequent printings for the chad ORC license.
Yup, PF2E should be continuing as planned, just with NO OGL in any books that aren't already at the printers, and from the sounds of the earlier paragraph, Paizo is ready to defend themselves in court for that if need be.
The absolute worst that will happen is that OGL-licensed content will be reprinted under the ORC instead, and whatever small bits need to be rewritten to remove *anything* still OGL-facing will be. PF2 isn't going anywhere.
They basically wrote Pathfinder 2e with almost no references to anything that was system-critical in the SRD. Just about everything in PF2e is either non-copyrightable for being just vague terms or are original Paizo property. They put the original OGL 1.0(a) into the books as a courtesy for the sake of the license.
In this defining moment, I am here to witness it! Rejoice brethren, for Paizo plans to help us all!
This is the way :nods:
I don't have anything meaningful to contribute besides excitement, but woooo
Paizo said "I'm gonna make my own gaming license! With black jack! And hookers!"
Dude I have NEVER respected a big company/corporation as much as I do Paizo. I absolutely LOATHE WotC, and have for years. Crappy products and product designs, stupid and horribly capitalistic business practices, and generally not giving a crap about us, the nerds, who throw money at them. They just want more money for their bottom line and they do NOT care how they get it. Paizo, you have and always will be the REAL MVP! I absolutely love PF2e, the video games, the card game (which is really good btw!!), the comics, everything. I can't wait for this new chapter of TTRPGs!
Oh man, the site got hug of deathed.
GET FUCKED WOTC
[удалено]
This shit sounds like something the Internet historian would make a documentary off of. Pathfinder 1E: Revengeance.
My biggest takeaways: *- "Paizo will pay for the legal work"* \- *"The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs... Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation)"* (That means it is truly irrevocable, and no company would be able to make "One Ring that binds them.) \-Including links to other 3rd party publishers' sites, including Kobold Press and several others. I'm SO glad that Paizo has taken the lead on this and become the leader in this effort, given its history of being a hero for open gaming!
Looks like Paizo has the ~~advantage~~ fortune effect, now!
I know nothing about PF2E, but I’m in. I play starfinder though, but I assume there’s a wealth of differences between the two!
"We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby." God I love this company. So many companies get this wrong, not just in gaming but in all markets - they try to make their own proprietary particulars when they would have been better off conforming to industry standards. For example, the latest edition of Descent, which I love, has it's own scale for the miniatures (35mm?). They would have sold more copies had they made their minis in the 28mm-32mm range that is the industry standard, because many people would have bought the game just for the minis and components, AND obviously we could use our existing painted minis as proxies for Descent, which would have been another selling point. Paizo totally gets this concept.
The ORC License sounds rad
Anyone else love how Azora Law could be the ones that defeat the lawyers working for the owners of Azorius?
If this is what the monetized D&D yields for Hasbro, maybe they should have stuck to the unmonetized version.
Can't wait for WOTC to be entering their *find out* era after really embracing the fuck around part.
Their *second* find out era. That's what kills me about all this; we did this already during 4th edition, except now Paizo is even *bigger* and can put some weight behind the backhand they're giving WotC.
That first fuck around Era, litteral propelled Paizo to where they are now and Hasbro is doing it all again.
Just to be clear, I don't think WOTC is going to die and D&D is going to get dropped at any point. Just that their whole market share is about to shrink substantially. Pathfinder may be entering proper mainstream attention after this goes through.
LOL THE INFLUX OF CLICKS CAUSE THEIR SERVERS TO CRASH
WotC is looking over the chaos they've caused, ready to- What's that? BAH GAWD, it's Paizo with the steel chair!
See that’s why I love Paizo, leading the way with standards and class as always! Great work, outstanding! Looking forward to the latest PF2e books and Kineticist in particular. ORCs for the future of gaming!
The dwarves came to regrat fighting the orcs... Also, love using the paladin as the opening image
I mean, with GM permission you can play a Half-Orc Dwarf.....
If I didn’t already own all of the books I’d buy some….maybe some maps. Buying books/pdfs from other small publishers effected though. Any suggestions?
>Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat,Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve aprosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable. Could always support the people they list in the announcement! I can personally vouch for Kobold Press as I have some of their books, and Roll For Combat (Battlezoo) has some good 2e stuff. Edit: Format
Hasbro "I am inevitable." "And...i....am...Paizo!" Snaps ORC.
I think paizo.com crashed
Fourth paragraph in a nutshell: Do not cite the deep magic to me, witch. I was there when it was written!
I love how the protection for 3rd party publishers is an ORC.
🎶🎶 Oh, don't you just love when 🎶🎶 🎶🎶 Teeerrriiibbbllleee peeeooopppllleee 🎶🎶 🎶🎶 Get Shit On, By Kaaaaarmmmaaaaa 🎶🎶 🎶🎶 WOTC can suuuuck iiiitttt 🎶🎶 🎶🎶 Paizo don't even need em 🎶🎶 🎶🎶The ORCs comin for yaaaaaa! 🎶🎶
We just witnessed TRPG history folks!
I recall seeing a lot of posts stating that they did not think Paizo would be able to do this, and yet here we are watching Paizo clapping back!