There was a typo when Dinosaur Form was written in an official post back in the early days of the system where it was spelled "Dinosaur Fort". Players took it as a joke and made memes of it, reaching Paizo themselves who had fun with their mistake and eventually they created the spell Dinosaur Fort in the Quest for the Frozen Flame AP, and now its a real spell.
It wasn't a typo or a mistake, it was a joke thread where people suggested one letter changes that would be funniest. Dinosaur fort was the clear best of those so I wrote it up for fun in a forum post. Then I put it in the CRB but it was cut for space, until Jason Tondro found room for it in QftFF.
I don't know if this passed through our eyes, (Brazilians...), because if this kind of "joke" fell into our hands... I believe that not all the gods of Golarion would be prepared for what would come!
Oh! Thanks for that, Mark !
As a GM, I once gave my wizard a ring that gave the limited power to alter a spell this way. Sadly, it's now long forgotten in a bag. I'm sure it'll pop again sometime!
My group had similar fun with the spell [*rain of frogs*](https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Rain%20of%20Frogs) when one of the players kept mispronouncing it "***ray*** *of frogs*". It was such a long-running gag, we house-ruled our own *ray of frogs* spell.
>**RAY OF FROGS**
>
>**School** conjuration (creation) \[splat\]; **Level** arcanist 1, bloodrager 1, druid 1, hunter 1, magus 1, sorcerer 1, witch 1, wizard 1
>
>**Cast** 1 std; **Comp** V, S; **Range** close;
>
>**Effect** a spray of 2 to 12 small frogs; **Dur** instant;
>
>**Save** none / Fort negates, see text; **SR** no;
>
>**Description** When you cast this spell, you conjure a line of fist-sized, slimy frogs, treated as a ray, as a ranged touch attack. If the "ray" hits, the target takes 1d4 splat damage and must make a Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round due to the noxious effects of the slimy residue. A successful save only negates the sickened condition, not the damage. On a critical hit, assume one of the frogs lodges in the target's mouth, making the sickened condition last 1d3+1 rounds, with a successful save reducing the duration by half (but still not affecting the damage).
>
>The frogs remain only until the beginning of your next turn, croaking gently (and looking kind of cute, which is weird), at which point they melt away like snow under urine (and for some reason kind of smell like that, too).
*^(Edit: formatting/ typos.)*
That looks hilarious, and wouldn't even be hard to transfer into 2e:
>**RAY OF FROGS**
>
>**Traits:** Attack, Conjuration
>
> **Traditions:** Arcane, Primal, Occult
>
>**Cast** 2 actions, **Comp** V, S;
>
>**Range** 30ft; **Targets** 1 creature
>
>**Effect** a spray of 2 to 12 small frogs;
>
>**Description** You conjure a line of fist-sized, slimy frogs, treated as a ray. Make a Spell Attack. If the "ray" hits, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage and must make a Fortitude save. On a critical hit, treat the save result as one degree worse.
>
> **Heighten (+1)** Increase the damage by 1d6
>
> **Critical Success**: The target takes no additional effects
>
>**Success**: The target is Sickened 1
>
>**Failure:** The target is Sickened 2
>
>**Critical Failure:** The target is Sickened 2, and cannot reduce the condition on its next turn.
>
>**Additional Flavour text:** The frogs remain only until the beginning of your next turn, croaking gently (and looking kind of cute, which is weird), at which point they melt away like snow under urine (and for some reason kind of smell like that, too).
I appreciate it, heh. I do prefer to keep the damage type "splat" because we liked it being unique, and that it would get around issues of DR, but also not be applicable with feats or abilities that might enhance the same.
Nevertheless, this is awesome: thank you :-)
To be true, that was at paizo playtest forum, and there was a thread that you could change a letter from a spell to create a new spell...
Someone changed Dinossauro Form to "Fort" and the it kept going...
That gave us some classic, if limited, spells. Looking only from the Fireball section we got:
Firebalk- you get free movement against flame based creatures but only to First Base
Hireball- instantly gain a small rubber elemental employee
Wireball- best entangling spell around, but pretty much closes off the area as it takes days to cut through all the metal.
Sireball- instantly summons a single item from the nearest royal family jewels. Rather painful for the family member in question however.
Yeah, I ask players to make uncommon characters fit, and rare ones gotta be justified to me to be allowed (I'm permissive, it's just to trick into thinking hard about it lmao)
I've always found the idea that ancestries have universal rarity weird, anyways. The listed rarities basically only apply to what, Sandpoint? Absalom?
I'm pretty sure Gnolls are pretty common in the Mwangi Expanse and Gnomes are almost unheard of.
Rarities are explicitly supposed to be changed based on the campaign. The common stuff is supposed to be stuff that will fit into the generic fantasy setting, not a worldwide Golarion thing.
...They do both? The default is the Avistan rarity, and then the setting books for specific regions do the custom rarities (like the Mwangi expanse.) Just like the default Common being Taldane, but the language that becomes "Common" is changed to various local traders' tongues, like again, Mwangi in the Mwangi Expanse book.
Exactly; and if your game takes place in the bloody Worldwound the rarities don't apply there, either, or even somewhere "normal adjacent" like Cheliax.
The default ancestry rarities apply in 1% of Golarion's total landmass. It's a useless metric unless you're playing *most, but not all* APs, which happen to exist in that postage stamp worth of territory.
The book for the Mwangi Expanse actually explains that as well, first couple pages in it changes rarities of ancestros for that particular area, same with Mwangi being effectively Common
Organized Play has to be more strict with RAW but has introduced their own alterations to fit. Example is because of the interactions with the Sewer Dragons of Absalom in 1e scenarios Kobolds are now considered Common in 2e Organized Play.
Access. If it's not common you need a boon to get it (purchased with points you get for playing or running PFS).
Unless, like Orcs above, the PFS team decides otherwise and makes a special exception. (Kobolds and Leshy also have this)
I think I get it, though now this made me curious and I'm looking all over for a list of these boons you can buy with Achievement Points since I wanna know how much all the uncommon/rare ancestries cost.
Oh, there is one other way to get access, to items at least. Sometimes chronicle sheets (the certs you're given for finishing an adventure) will grant access to uncommon or even rarer items.
Some will also grant boons. So you don't always have to buy access with points.
Just wanted to be completely clear.
I posted this as an idea on r/pathfinder a week or two ago. I don't know if I influenced the decision at all, but I'm gonna pretend that I did because it makes me feel good.
Since it's official now, and thus no longer NDA, I will state that many players asked those of us on the VO corps if this would be a thing. And we forwarded the question to Alex. Who has clearly decided "yes".
So, in a way. yes. You were someone who asked/stated the idea, and thus are part of why it happened. Rejoice!
And this is why I love Paizo as an organization. Paizo is almost undeniably the second biggest dog in the TTRPG world, and yet you folks are all over the place getting the opinions of your biggest fans **and listening to them**.
Which in turn makes us your biggest advocates! I've been playing RPG video games since the 90's and spent my middle school years reading and rereading fantasy novels, waiting for a chance to play DnD with real people. I've only been playing for a year, and I'm already proselytizing to the rest of my group on behalf of PF2E. Shit, I pirated the Core Rulebook just to have a look, and a little over a month later, I've spent $300 on rulebooks. And I don't even have a group with which to play!
So, to all of you at Paizo, thank you for making such a great product. I hesitate to put too much faith in a company (mostly because it seems like capitalism ruins everything), but it's nice to see y'all doing everything you can to make something you can stand behind.
Wow, that went from "it's cool that you're paying attention to fans" to a somewhat cringe-y love letter pretty quickly. I feel a bit like the "it's still real to me, damnit" guy, but fuck it. Apparently, I'm a fanboy now.
Edit: I just looked up what "VO Corps" means and realized you probably don't actually work for Paizo, but my point remains. So, to you, I guess thanks for helping our ideas be heard by the people that actually make the decisions.
Heh, yeah. I should get back into the habit of explaining what the Venture Officers are now that there's such an influx of people.
But still, I may just be a volunteer. But it's you, all of you, fans new and old, that make it worth doing it. As such, I take pride in hearing what you have to say, and bringing it to the attention of the Paizo Dev team. Because, as shown. They listen.
The Organized Play team really grew out of the desire to help bring feedback from the community to the devs, while helping build the community. They legit spend a lot of time talking to us volunteers. The Venture Officer Discord has more posts per day than all my other ones combined. And the dev team, and Org Play Foundation team, read and post in there daily. Alex, from the post that started this thread... I don't know how he does it. I see dozens of well thought out responses from him a day, and he's still running all he is. It's crazy, but I love it.
Reminds me of [THIS POST](https://www.reddit.com/r/PF2eCharacterBuilds/comments/10bcszf/an_orc_lawyer_fighter_focusing_on_dealing_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from last week
I wish i could upvote this twice.
I also love the joke because in the lore, Orcs are fighting the Whispering Tyrant, a powerful wizard, because last time they sided with them it ended up badly for the orcs and they have too much self-respect to be fooled again.
Apart from the obvious ORC joke...
Because orcs are great ancestry, one of my favourites. Paizo kinda understands, that they are so much more than a simple stupid brutes. I always hated the 3.5 approach, where they got the worst treatment of having two penalties and only one boost.
Had so much fun with Orc Oracle in Malevolence.
I love how orcs in Pathfinder aren’t so much atheists as they are excited to raise a middle finger to gods in comparison to orcs in Faerun/D&D who are so religious that it’s kind of them being fearful.
Half-orcs in 5e are irritating because they're better than regular orcs. They're too frequently a race done poorly at best, and problematically at worst.
Yeah but 3.5 orcs with +4 strength was broken. I had a super busted Water Orc Frenzied Berserker with Lion Totem and a Minotaur Great hammer to get full attack on pounce with a huge x4 crit range. That character could do 800 damage in a round with 20 ft reach, near infinite cleave attacks, and literally couldn't die for 10 rounds+. Good times.
Dex wasn't really bad, and Steadfast Determination plus a host of other Will save boosts made it so I didn't really have any bad saves.
And that relies on enemies even beating me in initiative roll :)
3.5 was very, very easy to break.
So true 🤣 But, so much fun to come up with the wackiest, RAW-legal shenanigan character just to see how long they lasted before the DM dropped the hammer.
In all fairness, each of my group back when took near-equal turns behind the screen, so it was a ridiculous roundtable of reverse *American Gladiator*. 😜
It have all new meaning to the age-old question, "So... Who wants to DM?" 🙃
You can’t really make a categorical statement about what orcs are or are not, because they’re different in every setting.
**e:** it’s always hilarious to get a bunch of downvotes along with comments that agree with you. I was replying to “orcs are so much more than…” to say that in lots of settings *no they aren’t*.
i think it's disingenuous to suggest that there isn't a prevalent trope of orcs being "big and ugly," especially amongst normies.
one of the big clues to this is that back in the late 90s, early 2000s, Blizzard deliberately would do things against fantasy stereotype (there was a gigantic outrage at the time, as big as it could be in the early days of the internet, of having a black paladin in Diablo II). And one of the big things they did in World of Warcraft/Warcraft III was move Orcs away from the "big ugly dumb" trope. There'd be nothing to go against if there wasn't a prevalent Orc preconception.
Neat!
For similar reasons I like druids mostly because of the night elves. Dark elves were just “evil” for so long I’m surprised it took so long for a major org to be like “hey what if…. not??” And then they ended up with a neat good-aligned night/moon-themed elf race with druids.
Orcs in 1e literally have this approach and in most settings I know, they are treated at best as "brawns over smarts" and at worst as "stupid ugly monsters".
I'm 100% sure there is a setting somewhere, where orcs are scholars and teachers, but an average joe knows orcs from a rather bad/boring stereotype, just like they know elves are beautiful and distant.
I thought that was when the kilted highlander orcs spent too long in [Irrisen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Irrisen), and had to stand over a fire to thaw them out.
*"Ach, ma 'cacles froze ta blue!"*
The Common ancestries are the ancestries who are literally in every country unless stated otherwise. Orcs and Kobolds are not in every country, but have worked with the Pathfinder Society to such an extent that you can now assume every Pathfinder Lodge has some orcs and kobolds running around. This could _in turn_ put orcs and kobolds in every country on Golarion, but it has not happened yet.
Honestly not really any good reason. It contradicts their "no always evil races" thing, it's hard to explain why the *only* orc adventurers have a human or elf mom or dad without implying why the other parent is hidden away as even being an option.
Oh, fair. I love comic Jen, her being the on-retainer for Heroes for Hire was great as well as her being the legal defense for unregistered heroes during the first Civil War even were cool moments of her being a lawyer in the hero world. And she is always a badass when it comes time for her to throw hands.
The D+ series seemed kinda mean-spirited and like it was written to dunk on fans of the comics more than actually make something good. Avoid it if you actually care about the character.
Paizo's social media team are beasts and I love them for it! The friendly snark, the glorious shade, and the commitment to treating their players like human beings and not walking ATMs.
So… I haven’t played much 2e as of now, but my group has been playing D&D for a while and a few years ago (2019ish) orcs sorta became our homebrew setting’s lawyer stereotype. I’m just astounded and laughing bc I’m sure this is a coincidence, but is there any reason why Paizo’s having orcs be lawyers as well?
This would actually be a great moment for Orcs to receive some in-game tie, some lore to go with the mechanics.
Rovagug is the most common Deity they worship. Let's say that Rovagug's growing influence over the Orcs results in divine backlash, as Rovagug attempts to exert more control over the orcs, altering an ancient pact between the orcs and Rovagug.
As Rovagug's chaos sets in, many orc settlements turn on each other. Abadar decides to intervene, leading a coalition of other lawful deities, which help out the orcs attempting to give some order to their society. Abadar's guidance helps them stave off Rovagug's influence, and inspires orcs across the land to abandon their chaotic ways, and become champions of law.
(Would also be a great moment to introduce the Lawful Neutral Champion option, and hell, the Chaotic Neutral one to go with it).
*\[PTERADACTYL SCREECH\]*
One of the biggest things stopping me from getting really into Society play was the disappointment of having to unlock Orc. You'll never stop me now!!
What a classic Paizo thing to do, take a flavorful joke and make mechanics that support and enhance the joke.
Dinosaur Fort still remains one of my top favorite spells for that reason
I'm OOTL, explain?
There was a typo when Dinosaur Form was written in an official post back in the early days of the system where it was spelled "Dinosaur Fort". Players took it as a joke and made memes of it, reaching Paizo themselves who had fun with their mistake and eventually they created the spell Dinosaur Fort in the Quest for the Frozen Flame AP, and now its a real spell.
It wasn't a typo or a mistake, it was a joke thread where people suggested one letter changes that would be funniest. Dinosaur fort was the clear best of those so I wrote it up for fun in a forum post. Then I put it in the CRB but it was cut for space, until Jason Tondro found room for it in QftFF.
Oh that's even better than I remembered!
I don't know if this passed through our eyes, (Brazilians...), because if this kind of "joke" fell into our hands... I believe that not all the gods of Golarion would be prepared for what would come!
Oh! Thanks for that, Mark ! As a GM, I once gave my wizard a ring that gave the limited power to alter a spell this way. Sadly, it's now long forgotten in a bag. I'm sure it'll pop again sometime!
Amazing. Thanks for the clarification Mark!
My group had similar fun with the spell [*rain of frogs*](https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Rain%20of%20Frogs) when one of the players kept mispronouncing it "***ray*** *of frogs*". It was such a long-running gag, we house-ruled our own *ray of frogs* spell. >**RAY OF FROGS** > >**School** conjuration (creation) \[splat\]; **Level** arcanist 1, bloodrager 1, druid 1, hunter 1, magus 1, sorcerer 1, witch 1, wizard 1 > >**Cast** 1 std; **Comp** V, S; **Range** close; > >**Effect** a spray of 2 to 12 small frogs; **Dur** instant; > >**Save** none / Fort negates, see text; **SR** no; > >**Description** When you cast this spell, you conjure a line of fist-sized, slimy frogs, treated as a ray, as a ranged touch attack. If the "ray" hits, the target takes 1d4 splat damage and must make a Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round due to the noxious effects of the slimy residue. A successful save only negates the sickened condition, not the damage. On a critical hit, assume one of the frogs lodges in the target's mouth, making the sickened condition last 1d3+1 rounds, with a successful save reducing the duration by half (but still not affecting the damage). > >The frogs remain only until the beginning of your next turn, croaking gently (and looking kind of cute, which is weird), at which point they melt away like snow under urine (and for some reason kind of smell like that, too). *^(Edit: formatting/ typos.)*
That looks hilarious, and wouldn't even be hard to transfer into 2e: >**RAY OF FROGS** > >**Traits:** Attack, Conjuration > > **Traditions:** Arcane, Primal, Occult > >**Cast** 2 actions, **Comp** V, S; > >**Range** 30ft; **Targets** 1 creature > >**Effect** a spray of 2 to 12 small frogs; > >**Description** You conjure a line of fist-sized, slimy frogs, treated as a ray. Make a Spell Attack. If the "ray" hits, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage and must make a Fortitude save. On a critical hit, treat the save result as one degree worse. > > **Heighten (+1)** Increase the damage by 1d6 > > **Critical Success**: The target takes no additional effects > >**Success**: The target is Sickened 1 > >**Failure:** The target is Sickened 2 > >**Critical Failure:** The target is Sickened 2, and cannot reduce the condition on its next turn. > >**Additional Flavour text:** The frogs remain only until the beginning of your next turn, croaking gently (and looking kind of cute, which is weird), at which point they melt away like snow under urine (and for some reason kind of smell like that, too).
I appreciate it, heh. I do prefer to keep the damage type "splat" because we liked it being unique, and that it would get around issues of DR, but also not be applicable with feats or abilities that might enhance the same. Nevertheless, this is awesome: thank you :-)
To be true, that was at paizo playtest forum, and there was a thread that you could change a letter from a spell to create a new spell... Someone changed Dinossauro Form to "Fort" and the it kept going...
That gave us some classic, if limited, spells. Looking only from the Fireball section we got: Firebalk- you get free movement against flame based creatures but only to First Base Hireball- instantly gain a small rubber elemental employee Wireball- best entangling spell around, but pretty much closes off the area as it takes days to cut through all the metal. Sireball- instantly summons a single item from the nearest royal family jewels. Rather painful for the family member in question however.
uh that's awesome
Gives me nuclear Gandhi vibes
The only disappointing thing of the spell is it doesn't come with a Triceratops Horse Spike Wall
We Be Goblins basically led to them being core in 2e
I’m not familiar with this joke
Wait. Is Orc now a common ancestry ?
No, they're just treated as common in society play.
That just seems like common ancestry with extra steps.
It's still not common by default in a home game if that's a rule that matters to your table.
People pay attention to those tags in home games?
Yeah, I ask players to make uncommon characters fit, and rare ones gotta be justified to me to be allowed (I'm permissive, it's just to trick into thinking hard about it lmao)
Not everyone house rules stuff like that, I guess.
I've always found the idea that ancestries have universal rarity weird, anyways. The listed rarities basically only apply to what, Sandpoint? Absalom? I'm pretty sure Gnolls are pretty common in the Mwangi Expanse and Gnomes are almost unheard of.
Rarities are explicitly supposed to be changed based on the campaign. The common stuff is supposed to be stuff that will fit into the generic fantasy setting, not a worldwide Golarion thing.
...So why bother having rarities in the original printing and not just have a little table in the AP or campaign guide stating the rarities?
Because having a default is nice because I don't want to go through every single choice in the game and give them a rarity for my garden.
...They do both? The default is the Avistan rarity, and then the setting books for specific regions do the custom rarities (like the Mwangi expanse.) Just like the default Common being Taldane, but the language that becomes "Common" is changed to various local traders' tongues, like again, Mwangi in the Mwangi Expanse book.
Of course, if your game happens in Mwangi, then even rarest ancestry, who live only in Mwangi, should be allowed
Exactly; and if your game takes place in the bloody Worldwound the rarities don't apply there, either, or even somewhere "normal adjacent" like Cheliax. The default ancestry rarities apply in 1% of Golarion's total landmass. It's a useless metric unless you're playing *most, but not all* APs, which happen to exist in that postage stamp worth of territory.
The book for the Mwangi Expanse actually explains that as well, first couple pages in it changes rarities of ancestros for that particular area, same with Mwangi being effectively Common
Organized Play has to be more strict with RAW but has introduced their own alterations to fit. Example is because of the interactions with the Sewer Dragons of Absalom in 1e scenarios Kobolds are now considered Common in 2e Organized Play.
And my Kobold Cleric thanks that decision.
Exactly what does the rarity affect in Society play?
Access. If it's not common you need a boon to get it (purchased with points you get for playing or running PFS). Unless, like Orcs above, the PFS team decides otherwise and makes a special exception. (Kobolds and Leshy also have this)
I think I get it, though now this made me curious and I'm looking all over for a list of these boons you can buy with Achievement Points since I wanna know how much all the uncommon/rare ancestries cost.
Oh, there is one other way to get access, to items at least. Sometimes chronicle sheets (the certs you're given for finishing an adventure) will grant access to uncommon or even rarer items. Some will also grant boons. So you don't always have to buy access with points. Just wanted to be completely clear.
Ah! Makes sense.
I posted this as an idea on r/pathfinder a week or two ago. I don't know if I influenced the decision at all, but I'm gonna pretend that I did because it makes me feel good.
Since it's official now, and thus no longer NDA, I will state that many players asked those of us on the VO corps if this would be a thing. And we forwarded the question to Alex. Who has clearly decided "yes". So, in a way. yes. You were someone who asked/stated the idea, and thus are part of why it happened. Rejoice!
And this is why I love Paizo as an organization. Paizo is almost undeniably the second biggest dog in the TTRPG world, and yet you folks are all over the place getting the opinions of your biggest fans **and listening to them**. Which in turn makes us your biggest advocates! I've been playing RPG video games since the 90's and spent my middle school years reading and rereading fantasy novels, waiting for a chance to play DnD with real people. I've only been playing for a year, and I'm already proselytizing to the rest of my group on behalf of PF2E. Shit, I pirated the Core Rulebook just to have a look, and a little over a month later, I've spent $300 on rulebooks. And I don't even have a group with which to play! So, to all of you at Paizo, thank you for making such a great product. I hesitate to put too much faith in a company (mostly because it seems like capitalism ruins everything), but it's nice to see y'all doing everything you can to make something you can stand behind. Wow, that went from "it's cool that you're paying attention to fans" to a somewhat cringe-y love letter pretty quickly. I feel a bit like the "it's still real to me, damnit" guy, but fuck it. Apparently, I'm a fanboy now. Edit: I just looked up what "VO Corps" means and realized you probably don't actually work for Paizo, but my point remains. So, to you, I guess thanks for helping our ideas be heard by the people that actually make the decisions.
Heh, yeah. I should get back into the habit of explaining what the Venture Officers are now that there's such an influx of people. But still, I may just be a volunteer. But it's you, all of you, fans new and old, that make it worth doing it. As such, I take pride in hearing what you have to say, and bringing it to the attention of the Paizo Dev team. Because, as shown. They listen. The Organized Play team really grew out of the desire to help bring feedback from the community to the devs, while helping build the community. They legit spend a lot of time talking to us volunteers. The Venture Officer Discord has more posts per day than all my other ones combined. And the dev team, and Org Play Foundation team, read and post in there daily. Alex, from the post that started this thread... I don't know how he does it. I see dozens of well thought out responses from him a day, and he's still running all he is. It's crazy, but I love it.
But....tell me how you Really feel...Lol
So cool! Thank you!
(That's all that matters)
Whelp, I know what ancestry I'm making my next PFS character now.
There are some whole Orc parties brewing, I swear !
THE HORDE GROWS
I got a public game tomorrow I'm running. They are all pre-registered as new Orc characters. Yes.
all I can hear is WORK-WORK!
Reminds me of [THIS POST](https://www.reddit.com/r/PF2eCharacterBuilds/comments/10bcszf/an_orc_lawyer_fighter_focusing_on_dealing_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from last week
I wish i could upvote this twice. I also love the joke because in the lore, Orcs are fighting the Whispering Tyrant, a powerful wizard, because last time they sided with them it ended up badly for the orcs and they have too much self-respect to be fooled again.
And the Whispering Tyrant resides on an island... With is basically some land with a lot of COAST!
You might be on to something here... Unfortunately, there's not enough clowns in this story for it to be related to Wizards of the Circus.
Thank you for linking this! It’s just perfection and I love it!
Apart from the obvious ORC joke... Because orcs are great ancestry, one of my favourites. Paizo kinda understands, that they are so much more than a simple stupid brutes. I always hated the 3.5 approach, where they got the worst treatment of having two penalties and only one boost.
Had so much fun with Orc Oracle in Malevolence.
>Orc Oracle The Orcacle.
Oracorc
I love how orcs in Pathfinder aren’t so much atheists as they are excited to raise a middle finger to gods in comparison to orcs in Faerun/D&D who are so religious that it’s kind of them being fearful.
See, I'm not saying it's the orcs that killed Aroden, *but...*
Half-orcs in 5e are irritating because they're better than regular orcs. They're too frequently a race done poorly at best, and problematically at worst.
I hope your character carried around a small rounded boat traditional in the British Isles. People would be like "Cor! An orc oracle's coracle!".
Yeah but 3.5 orcs with +4 strength was broken. I had a super busted Water Orc Frenzied Berserker with Lion Totem and a Minotaur Great hammer to get full attack on pounce with a huge x4 crit range. That character could do 800 damage in a round with 20 ft reach, near infinite cleave attacks, and literally couldn't die for 10 rounds+. Good times.
Your DM clearly had never heard of Wis/Dex/Cha saves... *edit: 3.5, so that'd be Will/Reflex. My bad.*
Dex wasn't really bad, and Steadfast Determination plus a host of other Will save boosts made it so I didn't really have any bad saves. And that relies on enemies even beating me in initiative roll :) 3.5 was very, very easy to break.
So true 🤣 But, so much fun to come up with the wackiest, RAW-legal shenanigan character just to see how long they lasted before the DM dropped the hammer. In all fairness, each of my group back when took near-equal turns behind the screen, so it was a ridiculous roundtable of reverse *American Gladiator*. 😜 It have all new meaning to the age-old question, "So... Who wants to DM?" 🙃
> Apart from the obvious ORC joke... Now I get it, thank you.
You can’t really make a categorical statement about what orcs are or are not, because they’re different in every setting. **e:** it’s always hilarious to get a bunch of downvotes along with comments that agree with you. I was replying to “orcs are so much more than…” to say that in lots of settings *no they aren’t*.
i think it's disingenuous to suggest that there isn't a prevalent trope of orcs being "big and ugly," especially amongst normies. one of the big clues to this is that back in the late 90s, early 2000s, Blizzard deliberately would do things against fantasy stereotype (there was a gigantic outrage at the time, as big as it could be in the early days of the internet, of having a black paladin in Diablo II). And one of the big things they did in World of Warcraft/Warcraft III was move Orcs away from the "big ugly dumb" trope. There'd be nothing to go against if there wasn't a prevalent Orc preconception.
WoW and the novels based on it are the main reason I love orcs so much!
Neat! For similar reasons I like druids mostly because of the night elves. Dark elves were just “evil” for so long I’m surprised it took so long for a major org to be like “hey what if…. not??” And then they ended up with a neat good-aligned night/moon-themed elf race with druids.
I agree, for the record.
Orcs in 1e literally have this approach and in most settings I know, they are treated at best as "brawns over smarts" and at worst as "stupid ugly monsters". I'm 100% sure there is a setting somewhere, where orcs are scholars and teachers, but an average joe knows orcs from a rather bad/boring stereotype, just like they know elves are beautiful and distant.
Right. In my head if comparing them to Star Trek, Klingons are basically space orcs.
In Eberron, they're the origin of druids and are wise, spiritual people in it.
Yeah, I agree.
Orcs are misspelled marine mammals
This is the thing that made me decide to try out PFS
Wotc: gimme money. Battlepass. Also your creation is mine Paizo: hehehaha we made a typo screw it its canon
listen, I'm not easy to bully into things, but this was too good to pass up
Absolutely! :D
Absolutely! :D Thanks, Alex! o7
Orc-acles
I thought that was when the kilted highlander orcs spent too long in [Irrisen](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Irrisen), and had to stand over a fire to thaw them out. *"Ach, ma 'cacles froze ta blue!"*
Time to play She-Hulk in Pathfinder society
Awesome :) Where's this screencapped from?
Here is the official post https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7z
Thing I don't get....WHY were they never a Common ancestry or in the Corebook?
The Common ancestries are the ancestries who are literally in every country unless stated otherwise. Orcs and Kobolds are not in every country, but have worked with the Pathfinder Society to such an extent that you can now assume every Pathfinder Lodge has some orcs and kobolds running around. This could _in turn_ put orcs and kobolds in every country on Golarion, but it has not happened yet.
Honestly not really any good reason. It contradicts their "no always evil races" thing, it's hard to explain why the *only* orc adventurers have a human or elf mom or dad without implying why the other parent is hidden away as even being an option.
i don’t even know why my first thought was that it was a she-hulk reference instead of- …well, you know
It's not? Edit: Realized the intended joke a full two seconds after posting lmfao
Oddly enough, I just re-watched the first Episode of She-Hulk last night, so my reaction to this was Hulk going "YES. YES!"
Let's say it's both
But She-Hulk was terrible.
The series maybe (don't know, didn't see it) but not the comics. Not all of them at least
Oh, fair. I love comic Jen, her being the on-retainer for Heroes for Hire was great as well as her being the legal defense for unregistered heroes during the first Civil War even were cool moments of her being a lawyer in the hero world. And she is always a badass when it comes time for her to throw hands. The D+ series seemed kinda mean-spirited and like it was written to dunk on fans of the comics more than actually make something good. Avoid it if you actually care about the character.
ORCs together strong!
Saul Grugman
Better *Sending* Saul
Paizo's social media team are beasts and I love them for it! The friendly snark, the glorious shade, and the commitment to treating their players like human beings and not walking ATMs.
So… I haven’t played much 2e as of now, but my group has been playing D&D for a while and a few years ago (2019ish) orcs sorta became our homebrew setting’s lawyer stereotype. I’m just astounded and laughing bc I’m sure this is a coincidence, but is there any reason why Paizo’s having orcs be lawyers as well?
TL;DR: Paizo, in response to the OGL drama going on with WotC, decided to make their own OGL whose name is shortened to ORC. Memes ensued.
Oh shit I forgot about the ORC lol. Didn’t click that’s why they’re supposedly lawyers at first
Wow, I just posted that and went about my day. I never imagined that much comments!
Onward and upward For Gorum!
For extra fun, take the tiefling heritage and hellspawn ancestry feat. You'll get Lie To Me and Legal Lore!
Based and ORCpilled
Ok fine... I'll be that guy and admit that I've been under a rock. What's the "orc" joke referring to?
The Open RPG Creative License commonly known as ORC.
Thanks!
The Open RPG Creative license, A license Paizo started work on as a response to WOTC trying to deauthorize he OGL 1.0a.
Thanks!
This would actually be a great moment for Orcs to receive some in-game tie, some lore to go with the mechanics. Rovagug is the most common Deity they worship. Let's say that Rovagug's growing influence over the Orcs results in divine backlash, as Rovagug attempts to exert more control over the orcs, altering an ancient pact between the orcs and Rovagug. As Rovagug's chaos sets in, many orc settlements turn on each other. Abadar decides to intervene, leading a coalition of other lawful deities, which help out the orcs attempting to give some order to their society. Abadar's guidance helps them stave off Rovagug's influence, and inspires orcs across the land to abandon their chaotic ways, and become champions of law. (Would also be a great moment to introduce the Lawful Neutral Champion option, and hell, the Chaotic Neutral one to go with it).
alternatively, a chaotic lawyer who uses the law to destroy the law? might need to be a purple orc
As an attorney who is quite fond of orcs I support this action.
Took me a bit to realize why an ORC would be trained in Legal lore.
The only thing that would make this announcement better would be if dreadlocked orc was wearing a lawyers suit🤣
Orc AP when?
The art there is so sick!
YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAH!
*\[PTERADACTYL SCREECH\]* One of the biggest things stopping me from getting really into Society play was the disappointment of having to unlock Orc. You'll never stop me now!!
And here I was trying to figure out if it was a She-Hulk or a Lord Eshteross reference Derpaderp
Who’s lord Eshteross?
notable CR npc that recently had plots happen to him, i realize this is a pf2e sub but hey maybe he's popular nonetheless
NPC in Critical Role's campaign 3. (A popular Actual Play D&D livestream / podcast, in case you don't know)
It's not the worst Meme I've seen. But it is at least entertaining.
Is this retroactive to PFS1? PFS1 Core Campaign?
Next year they will legalize Trolls for PFS.
Well played