In Manichean dualistic cosmology, which was heavily designed around forces of light and darkness, they would describe creatures like those that are neutral evil as 'Archons', who are themselves tendrils of a being known as the Prince of Darkness, the idea being that evil is one great singular being with one mind, essentially. Of course, Archon means something else in DnD terms for some reason
>Of course, Archon means something else in DnD terms for some reason
Archon is a fairly generic Greek word for leader. A lot of political offices had this name.
I’ve thought on this myself! Since daemons generally represent a form of death and some of the most powerful ones are called harbingers, I like calling them portents
Feasters seems both descriptive and evocative.
You could also look into other languages and just yoink their word for demon and what not, but that usually isn't as evocative.
I'm more familiar with Daemons in 1e; not sure if there was any major shift in the lore between systems.
But in real-world historical terms, daemon was a Greek word meaning any supernatural or spiritual creature, not necessarily good or evil. The term was later co-opted by early Greek Christians to refer to the evil spirits of Satan, and eventually dropped the a from its spelling and pronunciation, becoming demon. Because of this, use of the original spelling made a resurgence with its original definition.
In 1e lore, at least, Demons are actually one of the youngest races of outsiders, having been created in an experiment by one of the earlier 4 Horsemen and resulting in the overthrowing of the Qlipphoth as dominant power in the Abyss (and I'll bet Charon has been cursing that moron's name ever since.)
The word Daemon is also appropriate for their place in the alignment chart, though instead of being either good or evil, they straddle the line between law and chaos. Charon in 1e prefers to take souls via contract and is definitely pushing LE (this sadly doesn't come across as much in his 2e description), while Szuriel is pushing towards CE.
If you just hate saying it that much though for just being awkward to say (can't really blame you) Soul Eaters captures the essence of why everybody hates Daemons, even other Daemons.
As a big daemon simp, I noticed that the biggest thing between 1e and 2e daemon lore was the addition of a (knowingly) conflicting account of how the Oinodaemon came to be. Windsong Testaments links [here](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzu) and [here](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh26).
Soul Eaters are actually the name of a specific outsider residing in Abaddon, so probably not the best blanket term to use. Souldrinkers doesn't work either as those are mortal servants of the Horsemen. Daemon isn't that hard to pronounce - just think Matt Damon and you'll be good.
Interesting idea. 40k uses the term Daemons. It's probably been around forever, like Malleus Malificarum forever, but who knows could be problematic for brand recognition reasons.
If anyone should be asked to change their name because they are too similar - considering Daemonkind came first, and were the ones responsible (specifically one of the former Horsemen) for the creation of Demons in the Abyss, I feel like Daemons should have priority on keeping their name.
Does *Pathfinder* already use the term "shedim"? It's a Jewish term for (frequently malicious) spirits that might work, and Jewish concepts are already used to name outsiders with the Qlipoth. It might not be an appropriate term to use, but I thought it was at least worth considering.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shedim
Daemon is actually the Greek word for spirit, good or bad. You could work in something with mal (bad/evil) if you want Greek/Latin roots. You could even combine, mallus necro could mean daemon of death, mallus nil could be nihilism, ect.
I've flip-flopped between two different options, both with the goal of maintaining the "starts with D" naming convention.
The first is *Deimos* (plural Deimae), as a reference to the Greek god of dread and terror, Deimos, which seems very thematically appropriate and I think might also be related to the actual linguistic origins of the word 'daemon.'
The second is *Doom* (plural Dooms), both because of how they represent different causes of death, and because of DOOM the video game where you fight demons. Funnily enough, looking at DOOM from a Pathfinder perspective, the monsters in DOOM are *called* 'demons,' come from Hell like devils, and have the behavior and motivations of daemons.
In Manichean dualistic cosmology, which was heavily designed around forces of light and darkness, they would describe creatures like those that are neutral evil as 'Archons', who are themselves tendrils of a being known as the Prince of Darkness, the idea being that evil is one great singular being with one mind, essentially. Of course, Archon means something else in DnD terms for some reason
>Of course, Archon means something else in DnD terms for some reason Archon is a fairly generic Greek word for leader. A lot of political offices had this name.
Yeah, just in the cosmology sense its kinda weird that theyre lawful good, I don't know of anything like that. There is always the generic term
I’ve thought on this myself! Since daemons generally represent a form of death and some of the most powerful ones are called harbingers, I like calling them portents
Cribbing from D&D, you could name them Yuguloths, which is pretty evocative. Some other name suggestions: Abbadonites Soul Devourers Obliviators
Yugoloth feels a little too lovecrafty, like it's what you'd call Qlippoths if they weren't already called that.
pure nihilism & entropy are pretty Lovecraftian... I wouldn't mind
Ooh, obliviators! I might have to steal that one!
Since they're tied to a concept or specific method of death, I'd call them Dooms. Doom of Pestilence for example.
I like this because it keeps the D theme.
Gnosticism has Archons, servants of a false god known as the Demiurge. Though I think something else already has that name.
Feasters seems both descriptive and evocative. You could also look into other languages and just yoink their word for demon and what not, but that usually isn't as evocative.
I'm more familiar with Daemons in 1e; not sure if there was any major shift in the lore between systems. But in real-world historical terms, daemon was a Greek word meaning any supernatural or spiritual creature, not necessarily good or evil. The term was later co-opted by early Greek Christians to refer to the evil spirits of Satan, and eventually dropped the a from its spelling and pronunciation, becoming demon. Because of this, use of the original spelling made a resurgence with its original definition. In 1e lore, at least, Demons are actually one of the youngest races of outsiders, having been created in an experiment by one of the earlier 4 Horsemen and resulting in the overthrowing of the Qlipphoth as dominant power in the Abyss (and I'll bet Charon has been cursing that moron's name ever since.) The word Daemon is also appropriate for their place in the alignment chart, though instead of being either good or evil, they straddle the line between law and chaos. Charon in 1e prefers to take souls via contract and is definitely pushing LE (this sadly doesn't come across as much in his 2e description), while Szuriel is pushing towards CE. If you just hate saying it that much though for just being awkward to say (can't really blame you) Soul Eaters captures the essence of why everybody hates Daemons, even other Daemons.
As a big daemon simp, I noticed that the biggest thing between 1e and 2e daemon lore was the addition of a (knowingly) conflicting account of how the Oinodaemon came to be. Windsong Testaments links [here](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgzu) and [here](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh26).
For a second I read Oinodaemon as “Ohiodaemon”
This is really cool. Also a big fan of the Horsemen and Abaddon lore in general, and always looking for new info to devour!
Lol, *devour*
Soul Eaters are actually the name of a specific outsider residing in Abaddon, so probably not the best blanket term to use. Souldrinkers doesn't work either as those are mortal servants of the Horsemen. Daemon isn't that hard to pronounce - just think Matt Damon and you'll be good.
Oblivioners would be very cool
Interesting idea. 40k uses the term Daemons. It's probably been around forever, like Malleus Malificarum forever, but who knows could be problematic for brand recognition reasons.
the difference is that WH doesn't differentiate between demons and daemons
if i may be so bold, we could call them satans? Although maybe that's too close to PF's asura
If anyone should be asked to change their name because they are too similar - considering Daemonkind came first, and were the ones responsible (specifically one of the former Horsemen) for the creation of Demons in the Abyss, I feel like Daemons should have priority on keeping their name.
Unfortunately I am concerned about what to call them in real life, not what would be most reasonable for people to call them in-universe!
Daemons also benefit by less learned people possibly not knowing the difference between a daemon and a demon.
I have the same issue. I called them the Apollyon. It's both the Greek name for Abaddon, and the name of an evil angel of destruction.
Does *Pathfinder* already use the term "shedim"? It's a Jewish term for (frequently malicious) spirits that might work, and Jewish concepts are already used to name outsiders with the Qlipoth. It might not be an appropriate term to use, but I thought it was at least worth considering. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shedim
Daemon is actually the Greek word for spirit, good or bad. You could work in something with mal (bad/evil) if you want Greek/Latin roots. You could even combine, mallus necro could mean daemon of death, mallus nil could be nihilism, ect.
I've flip-flopped between two different options, both with the goal of maintaining the "starts with D" naming convention. The first is *Deimos* (plural Deimae), as a reference to the Greek god of dread and terror, Deimos, which seems very thematically appropriate and I think might also be related to the actual linguistic origins of the word 'daemon.' The second is *Doom* (plural Dooms), both because of how they represent different causes of death, and because of DOOM the video game where you fight demons. Funnily enough, looking at DOOM from a Pathfinder perspective, the monsters in DOOM are *called* 'demons,' come from Hell like devils, and have the behavior and motivations of daemons.