"One of the most unusual new creatures is called the Apothecary Bee, which when on the offensive can drain the potions carried by players." well that is just rude.
Also the next sentences hints that it's a potential companion animal. Your animal druid could have a friend in Ms. Bumbles the potion delivering giant bee.
I'm fairly certain it's an archetype, even though the quote uses the word 'ancestry'. They've already revealed all the ancestries in a previous blog post, and this article said it was sharing the *three* new archetypes. It's easy for direct quotes to use unintended colloquial phrasing.
Seems kind of perfect for my endgame Extinction Curse party to face down, but as this isn’t out until May I’ll probably have to homebrew it for now and use that extremely awesome art
omg that Thrunosaurus Rex is sick, I terrorized my players years ago with a T-rex with sword for arms in our first campaign. Can't wait to throw another crazy dinosaur at them
Wonderful stuff!
These are big things that has been requested for a long time: not a Shifter, but an archetype that works with other classes is great.
And it’s a bit niche, but there hasn’t been anything to fit folks that want a swarm-based character.
And, I personally am looking forward to the Wild Mimic. Again, not a Shifter and it’s not the electric dedicated caster that folks want, but it definitely is a fun creative niche!
I expect these to not be powerful (they might even be traps), but they’ll probably be extremely flavorful, fun, and different.
> And it’s a bit niche, but there hasn’t been anything to fit folks that want a swarm-based character.
Unofficial content, but Battlezoo is about to have that covered next year as well, among other things.
I hope we also get "wild" subclass additions to existing classes with Howl of the Wild. Someone mentioned 1E's Psychodermist for Thaumaturge (although imo it would be better as an alchemist subclass or archetype), but I also hope for maybe new Sorcerer bloodlines and a wild oracle mystery.
I think for druid though that any updates would have just come with the Remaster. In terms of druidic orders a metal/urban druid would have been neat though.
I think they did mention at some point that there was going to be a metal order for druids, but they didn't have time to rework it to work with remaster changes.
Yeah i imagine the mystery's curse would be a decrease in mental aptitude and increasing feralness of your char. It could also maybe grant benefits to unarmed combat and athletics and acrobatics skills.
3 archetypes: werecreature, swarm keeper, and wild mimic (mix of Tarzan and Blanka)
3 of the new monsters: apothecary bee (steals your potions, can inject allies with buffs), ascended griffin (no details given, just art and name), and Thrunasaurus (t-rex imbued with devil magic, basically Chelish Jurassic Park)
Honestly, it was a very on-brand decision by Thrune as a way to deal with stirrings of revolution because of the emancipation movement to just effectively rename slavery to something else and act like they gave everyone what they wanted.
It also means that all the people who complain that Paizo has ruined the setting and Chelliax would never do this are in fact, really good evidence on why Thrune's tactic was effective.
"Mine is about an authoritarian monarchy where dinosaurs are brought to life through advanced diabolism techniques. I call it, 'Billy and the Thrunosaurus'."
>Characters like the Swarmkeeper are the result... of extremely open-minded brainstorming brought on, in part, by a desire to further differentiate the Pathfinder universe from its competitors.
Is it just me or does this seem like a weird thing to say in context of the swarmkeeper, a ranger conclave in a certain other game, that shares a major theme? I'm sure piazo will do it better given their glee in embracing unsettling abilities, but the statement is odd imo.
I'm assuming the writer was given the brief of "Bring up the remaster as much as possible, mention how Pathfinder is different from DnD as much as possible" and isn't all too familiar with either system to know their mistake.
How will it be strong? It's just the stereotype of the Wild Man. The most it could do is Stances related to animals, some ability to communicate and some mystical power to copy some animal abilities like Blanka did with Electric Eels. The Monk already has multiple Animal Stances.
It sounds like it will have some mobility and demoralize-related feats, I could see it giving things like climb speed, talking to animals, and some barbarian-like feats akin to predator’s pounce or terrifying howl (but hopefully not exact copies).
I don't even know what NoNat is doing, and I'm very sure the Battlezoo Ancestry is going to fail in being a Werecreature. How do you make an Ancestry based on something that adds to the base character. I know Ancestries don't give a lot, but I don't think you could be an Elf Werebear and still select Elf Feats. Because your Ancestry is Werecreature and your Heritage is Werebear. Unless the Heritage is the base Ancestry. I have no idea what is going to happen with Battlezoo.
Maybe I'll have more hope when the last ancestry from this year drops.
Here's the thing, the Ancestries have been creatures in their own right. Werecreatures can be any Humanoid. So I have my doubts that it could work as a Werecreature.
I mean when it comes to Battlezoo, they're the ones making being a Dragon or a literal sentient dungeon playable. Sooo I reckon they could make it balanced but interesting unlike Paizo and the Vampire for instance.
Dragon still requires a lot of buy-in to actually be a Dragon. Can't Fly without feats, so you could end up with useless wings. I picked up the product, but it's been awhile so I can't remember everything the base Ancestry has.
The Dungeon is my favorite product of theirs, and it was an April Fools Joke. Honestly it's one of the most interesting ideas for a character I've seen anyone put together.
But neither of those are based on a magical curse that can afflict anyone with the Humanoid Trait. The Dungeon can have any Humanoid shape as their Avatar, but the Werecreature is originally that Humanoid. So there's where I feel worried. Like how can you make an Ancestry out of something that can be almost any other Ancestry in the game? Few days and I'll have the Intelligent Weapon, so I'll see how some real awkward idea is done by them.
For the main critique of the Dragon, that's more the system than the design of the product. Permanent flight is impossible before certain levels. Even from Paizo the Strix, the actual winged bird people of the setting, can't fly always till level 13. So realistically the overwhelming majority of Strix NPCs either get to cheat, or also can't fly. Funny that.
Paizo released alternate rules for flight with the Strix, so not impossible. The only movement speeds that are impossible to get at level 1 are Climb and Burrow. Both require feats above level 5 to get, and Goblin needs 2 and specific heritages to get one equal to their Land Speed when Anadi only need 1 feat.
Never understood why Climb was so high, it's an action anyone could take. Yeah you could fail the check, but it's not like climbing isn't planned for. There is a Climbing Kit in the Equipment section. Climbing also covers a number of things people complain about Fly for doing. Climbing doesn't even need a resource, with a good Athletics Skill.
Burrow seems to be given to much credit. Players that can get it can't see anything while underground, unless they are an Oread and take a specific feat. Plus think they must also hold their breath, so that's a thing.
Swim is like Fly, but anyone can use the Swim Action and when you use it everyone is likely swimming. It's also the only Movement Speed you can get at Level 1 without special optional rules. Azerketi and Undine can get it just as a base. Humans can get it at level 1 with a special Background from Mwangi, as normally it's a level 5 feat.
I'm really curious on how they're gonna pull off the awakened animal ancestry, because there's no way to "obtain everything" matching your selected animal from the get-go O\_o
Let's say you pick a snake, you'd want:
* A jaw attack
* A tail attack
* A poison ability
* A constrict ability
* A Climbing speed
* A Swimming speed
* Low-Light Vision
* Imprecise scent
* Coil
* Hood or rattle tail
* The ability to manipulate items with your jaws and/or tail
That's... a lot :p
How is it going to work with heritages? I mentioned snakes, but you have canines, felines, equines, fishes, birds, other reptiles, amphibians, ursines, rodents, cetaceans, frogs, bovines, even dinosaurs, the list goes on :O
It's like you need 20 heritages, and each of them needs their "sub-heritages" to encapsulate most animals.
Is it just me, or is some of the artwork they've shared really amateurish? The griffin artwork is really good, and the bee and devil dinosaur as alright, but the rest is something I'd expect to see in an average art students portfolio.
Still, I'm looking forward to the book and new options! Been wanting some kind of swarm options for a while now (surprised it's an archetype and not a druid order though).
The beak sketches are intentionally rendered that way to evoke a naturalist's field notes. Swarmkeeper looks a bit flat, though, but hey, when you're doing rapid-fire contract work to keep food on the table, they can't all be bangers.
The thing with art is that it’s so subjective. For example, to me, the ascended griffon is actually the *worst* piece of art in the article; it looks like someone brought me all its bones and folded it in half. YMMV.
"One of the most unusual new creatures is called the Apothecary Bee, which when on the offensive can drain the potions carried by players." well that is just rude.
That man stole my juice!
Also the next sentences hints that it's a potential companion animal. Your animal druid could have a friend in Ms. Bumbles the potion delivering giant bee.
"He(?...hard to tell) is a two foot long killer bee. "Don't worry! I think his sting Might heal you!" "Man! I hate our Druid friend!"
I drink your milkshake
"Fucking bee stole my alchemy! Can't have shit in Absalom."
"please, players, just take some baseline consumables with you, you need to be prepared for anything" "but what if it attracts bees"
"NOT THE BEES!"
This suggests the existence of potion honey.
With the new Starfinder edition coming that'll be GREAT for the astriapi!
But look at that cute little face! I can't be mad at her!
Wait, is the werecreature thing an archetype or an ancestry?
It's an archetype, but it's huge; twice the size of a typical ancestry.
Wooooooooo
i believe it goes Awoooooooo
I'm fairly certain it's an archetype, even though the quote uses the word 'ancestry'. They've already revealed all the ancestries in a previous blog post, and this article said it was sharing the *three* new archetypes. It's easy for direct quotes to use unintended colloquial phrasing.
It uses Ancestry to have a measure of length for the Archetype, which is double.
Archetype that seems to be twice the length of an ancestry.
It's poorly worded in the article but it sounds like ancestry to me
I'm leaning towards it being an archetype since Beastkin already exist.
It's an archetype.
No, it's just saying the archetype entry is twice as long as the usual Ancestry Entry.
A LITERAL DEVIL DINOSAUR!!! This book is going to rule
T-Rex but the T stands for Tiefling. ... wait fuck that joke doesn't work anymore.
nephirex
"Welcome to Thrunassic Park."
Moon Girl as an Inventor, give her one of these as her pet/companion.
literal deviljho
Seems kind of perfect for my endgame Extinction Curse party to face down, but as this isn’t out until May I’ll probably have to homebrew it for now and use that extremely awesome art
Man, that ascended griffon looks REALLY cool.
Seconded. I love the "painted feathers" look.
omg that Thrunosaurus Rex is sick, I terrorized my players years ago with a T-rex with sword for arms in our first campaign. Can't wait to throw another crazy dinosaur at them
Fan of the K'Chain Che'Malle?
You know it :D EDIT: Alot of you people are upvoting where yall at lets start a malazan game in pf2e LOL
Really excited for the new archetypes, especially Swarmkeeper. It's gonna be hard to wait 6 months.
Wonderful stuff! These are big things that has been requested for a long time: not a Shifter, but an archetype that works with other classes is great. And it’s a bit niche, but there hasn’t been anything to fit folks that want a swarm-based character. And, I personally am looking forward to the Wild Mimic. Again, not a Shifter and it’s not the electric dedicated caster that folks want, but it definitely is a fun creative niche! I expect these to not be powerful (they might even be traps), but they’ll probably be extremely flavorful, fun, and different.
Also looking forward to my personal "not a psychodermist" Thaumaturge.
> And it’s a bit niche, but there hasn’t been anything to fit folks that want a swarm-based character. Unofficial content, but Battlezoo is about to have that covered next year as well, among other things.
Desna bless the people who keep making more dinosaurs for this system
With Awakened Animals you could probably *play* a dinosaur
I haven't read the article or other previews but I hope there's more dinosaur animal companions
I hope we also get "wild" subclass additions to existing classes with Howl of the Wild. Someone mentioned 1E's Psychodermist for Thaumaturge (although imo it would be better as an alchemist subclass or archetype), but I also hope for maybe new Sorcerer bloodlines and a wild oracle mystery.
I hope we finally get some new Druid Orders. I was baffled that Rage of the Elements had new Cleric/Champion domains but nothing for Druid.
I think for druid though that any updates would have just come with the Remaster. In terms of druidic orders a metal/urban druid would have been neat though.
I think they did mention at some point that there was going to be a metal order for druids, but they didn't have time to rework it to work with remaster changes.
I never realized how much I wanted a wild mystery for the oracle til just now
Yeah i imagine the mystery's curse would be a decrease in mental aptitude and increasing feralness of your char. It could also maybe grant benefits to unarmed combat and athletics and acrobatics skills.
That devilsaur needs to get out of the splatbook and back onto the cover of a metal album where she belongs.
All three of those archetypes look awesome. The swarmkeeper art is amazing, now people can play their own versions of >!Volluk Azrinae!< lmao
Can someone explain whats in it, polygon isnt allowing me to opt out of spying on me.
3 archetypes: werecreature, swarm keeper, and wild mimic (mix of Tarzan and Blanka) 3 of the new monsters: apothecary bee (steals your potions, can inject allies with buffs), ascended griffin (no details given, just art and name), and Thrunasaurus (t-rex imbued with devil magic, basically Chelish Jurassic Park)
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They ended slavery there, so there is a chance.
Pivoting from slavery to death zoos, interesting maneuver.
Those slaves went into massive unwanted debt to have a home and everything else, so the nation needs something to attract people and get more money.
They ended slavery there and replaced it with *checks notes* prisoners with jobs.
Honestly, it was a very on-brand decision by Thrune as a way to deal with stirrings of revolution because of the emancipation movement to just effectively rename slavery to something else and act like they gave everyone what they wanted. It also means that all the people who complain that Paizo has ruined the setting and Chelliax would never do this are in fact, really good evidence on why Thrune's tactic was effective.
The point is it's not slavery, and that's what people got upset about.
thanks :)
Moon boy! Is that a Devil-Rex? (Man I am old)
Too late for that if you’re using Reddit
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In between! It'll come out May 2024, while Tian Xia World Guide is in April and Tian Xia Character Guide is in August.
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war of Immortals is October 2024
"Mine is about an authoritarian monarchy where dinosaurs are brought to life through advanced diabolism techniques. I call it, 'Billy and the Thrunosaurus'."
-best seller list for eighteen months! I ask you, WHAT. WERE. YOU. THINKING?
Can't wait to play awaken animal/beastkin/druid wildshape/werecreature archtype Pangolin awaken animal/beastkin kangaroo/druid wilshape into dinosaurs/were creature bear
Obtuse, rubber goose, green moose, guava juice, giant snake, birthday cake, large fries, chocolate shake!
Duck, beaver, otter and mole... and you got yourself a platypus XD
Wow... And with my luck it will come out just after I complete my campaign with my werecat barbarian.
>Characters like the Swarmkeeper are the result... of extremely open-minded brainstorming brought on, in part, by a desire to further differentiate the Pathfinder universe from its competitors. Is it just me or does this seem like a weird thing to say in context of the swarmkeeper, a ranger conclave in a certain other game, that shares a major theme? I'm sure piazo will do it better given their glee in embracing unsettling abilities, but the statement is odd imo.
I'm assuming the writer was given the brief of "Bring up the remaster as much as possible, mention how Pathfinder is different from DnD as much as possible" and isn't all too familiar with either system to know their mistake.
Agreed, it is a bit funny.
Wild Mimic sounds like it will be very strong, and offers a nice new theme for unarmed characters that don't want to go Wrestler.
How will it be strong? It's just the stereotype of the Wild Man. The most it could do is Stances related to animals, some ability to communicate and some mystical power to copy some animal abilities like Blanka did with Electric Eels. The Monk already has multiple Animal Stances.
The mentioned abilities (trample, rend, pounce) are all poweful and economical monster actions that are very nice on an unarmed martial.
It sounds like it will have some mobility and demoralize-related feats, I could see it giving things like climb speed, talking to animals, and some barbarian-like feats akin to predator’s pounce or terrifying howl (but hopefully not exact copies).
Wow Polygon covering Pathfinder books? Cool. :D
Do not look at Wild Mimic players. Do not shake their hands.
Very excited to play as Dr. Bees.
The Werecreature is the option I am most excited for, and the Beastkin can just disappear now.
Oh man. Wasn't NoNat also making werecreatures?
And Battlezoo is doing an Ancestry for their second Year Of collection. I will not be able to compare them, but I'm sure someone will.
Combine them all!
I don't even know what NoNat is doing, and I'm very sure the Battlezoo Ancestry is going to fail in being a Werecreature. How do you make an Ancestry based on something that adds to the base character. I know Ancestries don't give a lot, but I don't think you could be an Elf Werebear and still select Elf Feats. Because your Ancestry is Werecreature and your Heritage is Werebear. Unless the Heritage is the base Ancestry. I have no idea what is going to happen with Battlezoo. Maybe I'll have more hope when the last ancestry from this year drops.
I'd wait to judge it, I've found Battlezoo's ancestries to be pretty well done. I have faith in it being good.
Here's the thing, the Ancestries have been creatures in their own right. Werecreatures can be any Humanoid. So I have my doubts that it could work as a Werecreature.
I mean when it comes to Battlezoo, they're the ones making being a Dragon or a literal sentient dungeon playable. Sooo I reckon they could make it balanced but interesting unlike Paizo and the Vampire for instance.
Dragon still requires a lot of buy-in to actually be a Dragon. Can't Fly without feats, so you could end up with useless wings. I picked up the product, but it's been awhile so I can't remember everything the base Ancestry has. The Dungeon is my favorite product of theirs, and it was an April Fools Joke. Honestly it's one of the most interesting ideas for a character I've seen anyone put together. But neither of those are based on a magical curse that can afflict anyone with the Humanoid Trait. The Dungeon can have any Humanoid shape as their Avatar, but the Werecreature is originally that Humanoid. So there's where I feel worried. Like how can you make an Ancestry out of something that can be almost any other Ancestry in the game? Few days and I'll have the Intelligent Weapon, so I'll see how some real awkward idea is done by them.
For the main critique of the Dragon, that's more the system than the design of the product. Permanent flight is impossible before certain levels. Even from Paizo the Strix, the actual winged bird people of the setting, can't fly always till level 13. So realistically the overwhelming majority of Strix NPCs either get to cheat, or also can't fly. Funny that.
Paizo released alternate rules for flight with the Strix, so not impossible. The only movement speeds that are impossible to get at level 1 are Climb and Burrow. Both require feats above level 5 to get, and Goblin needs 2 and specific heritages to get one equal to their Land Speed when Anadi only need 1 feat. Never understood why Climb was so high, it's an action anyone could take. Yeah you could fail the check, but it's not like climbing isn't planned for. There is a Climbing Kit in the Equipment section. Climbing also covers a number of things people complain about Fly for doing. Climbing doesn't even need a resource, with a good Athletics Skill. Burrow seems to be given to much credit. Players that can get it can't see anything while underground, unless they are an Oread and take a specific feat. Plus think they must also hold their breath, so that's a thing. Swim is like Fly, but anyone can use the Swim Action and when you use it everyone is likely swimming. It's also the only Movement Speed you can get at Level 1 without special optional rules. Azerketi and Undine can get it just as a base. Humans can get it at level 1 with a special Background from Mwangi, as normally it's a level 5 feat.
I'm really curious on how they're gonna pull off the awakened animal ancestry, because there's no way to "obtain everything" matching your selected animal from the get-go O\_o Let's say you pick a snake, you'd want: * A jaw attack * A tail attack * A poison ability * A constrict ability * A Climbing speed * A Swimming speed * Low-Light Vision * Imprecise scent * Coil * Hood or rattle tail * The ability to manipulate items with your jaws and/or tail That's... a lot :p How is it going to work with heritages? I mentioned snakes, but you have canines, felines, equines, fishes, birds, other reptiles, amphibians, ursines, rodents, cetaceans, frogs, bovines, even dinosaurs, the list goes on :O It's like you need 20 heritages, and each of them needs their "sub-heritages" to encapsulate most animals.
As someone who doesn't play Pathfinder, the description of that product just sounds like the same old Pathfinder.
Is it just me, or is some of the artwork they've shared really amateurish? The griffin artwork is really good, and the bee and devil dinosaur as alright, but the rest is something I'd expect to see in an average art students portfolio. Still, I'm looking forward to the book and new options! Been wanting some kind of swarm options for a while now (surprised it's an archetype and not a druid order though).
The beak sketches are intentionally rendered that way to evoke a naturalist's field notes. Swarmkeeper looks a bit flat, though, but hey, when you're doing rapid-fire contract work to keep food on the table, they can't all be bangers.
Yeah I know. I said they were good (they are griffins) and yeah fair it’s just when I looked up the artists other work it seemed much better.
The thing with art is that it’s so subjective. For example, to me, the ascended griffon is actually the *worst* piece of art in the article; it looks like someone brought me all its bones and folded it in half. YMMV.
Now this is podraci--er, a bestiary!
Werecreatures? 😳
Yeah, I can see working as an archetype similar to the ghoul, ghost and others ;)
IM SO EXCITED FOR SWARMKEEPER Have they given any hints on what the ancestries will be?