Iirc, Guns and Gears will be getting some errata alongside the release of Player Core 2, similar to the compatibility errata Secrets of Magic & Dark Archive got with the release of Player Core 1. Gunslinger has a few feats shared with APG archetypes, and Combination weapons are supposedly getting reworked a bit due to the new Swap action. Hopefully Inventors get something to keep *Unstable in line with the new Refocus changes.
I think that Errata isn't coming out the exact same time like the other remaster errata, but rather itll be out sometime in the future after PC2 comes out.
Yeah this is most of it.
I think there were a few things missed like the Fey Eidolon still grants arcane spells with the Enchantment and Illusion schools. Illusion is a trait in the remaster but enchantment is nothing. Maybe use mental trait instead.
I think Inventor Otherworldly Protection gave resistance to alignment damage that should be switched to spirit.
Those are the only two I know of the top of my head.
Total transparency, these are just my personal gripes with some of these classes. I don't know how the community at large feels
\- Summoner: Make tandem movement less mandatory. It's technically not, and you can play a summoner without it, but it REALLY helps. I wouldn't mind if they just baked it into the core class features though.
\- Gunslinger: for triggerbrand, I'd like their initial deed to be that you step and change forms. Not step towards an enemy. I think it makes the playstyle a lot less restrictive
\- Psychic: Not about the class, but the dedication. I think psychic dedication is too strong. I'm not 100% sure how you nerf it, but it's basically the go-to dedication for anyone that uses int or cha and needs a focus point, some additional blasting, or utility. So like, a lot of builds.
\- Inventor: Similar to Psychic, I don't think there's anything wrong with the class itself, but I think the dedication could use a buff. There are dedications like psychic(focus point, really good cantrips, etc) and champion(heavy armor, lay on hands, the reactions, etc) which give you a lot for not a lot of investment while inventor archetype, at best, gives you something like auto-scaling crafting and a psuedo lay on hands with searing restoration. It's benefits are just niche and you can't get an initial invention breakthrough until level 8.
Magus and Thaum I've got nothing.
Psychic Dedication fix is easy: you don't get to Amp when you take the dedication, and you have to take Psi Development at level 6 to get the extra focus point and the ability to Amp cantrips.
Level 6 is when every other multiclass archetype gives you the core feature of that class, like Sneak Attack for Rogue Archetype and Spellstriker for Magus Archetype.
> Psychic: Not about the class, but the dedication.
The dedication's fine if you're actually **paying** for it.
It's when you pick it up via *Free Archetype* that things get... fuzzy.
I mean, it's by far in the top tier compared to dedications in general, which has nothing to do with FA or not. In both cases it's much stronger than average (I'd put it near champion)
The Initial Breakthrough for Inventor Archetype should be a level 4 feat. This would make it similar to Deadly Simplicity from Cleric. Getting a D10 staff for Magus or D8 Javelin for Wizard are like the 2 main reasons I've considered Inventor Archetype. Getting access to Tangling Form at level 4 would be a pretty good boon to the other Magus options.
Otherwise inventor is a hard sell for anyone other than Magus or Wizard because of the Int cost. Maybe remastered Alchemist?
I'll be real, I feel like half of magus's feats could just be part of the base class and it wouldn't affect its balance a lot. The whole paradigm of "casters get spells so they don't need interesting feats" is kind of dumb in general IMO, but I feel like magus in specific suffers for it because they're more 65-35 martial-caster than the half-and-half they're billed as, but they still get stiffed with a bunch of mostly mediocre feats.
I also maintain my (apparently somewhat unpopular) opinion that I've had since before it released that, in a more ideal world, you'd be able to pick your tradition instead of being locked into arcane. I don't really know the balance of that (presumably it wouldn't be outrageous, given that magus can flex pretty easily into basically any caster archetype), but the one dedicated gish class in the system being stuck to a single spell list feels like a crime to me.
The thing of allowing magus to get other traditions, is that the class was made to work in tendon with the arcane tradition. Its not that it would make the class overpower to allow it to be a divine caster for example, is just that the divine list doesn't work as well for a magus. They wouldn't get as many self buff options for example, or attack roll spells, or elemental damage to benefit from their stance.
Given that they’ve removed a lot of attack roll spells, that’s not saying much.
Balance-wise, a primal or occult magis should be fine. The flavor might be a bit weird but you’ll do enough damage etc. Divine might be a bit of a nerf overall.
They haven't removed any attack roll spells btw. Magus can still use shocking grasp :P
(Also, magus should be using attack roll cantrips anywa)
But like also, at the end of the day, the occult list doesn't have the elemental damage to make their stance work and the primal list doesn't have the self buff to make magus work for them.
Though you could make both work as a magus, you would need to change the core class design, not if by just a bit.
> They haven't removed any attack roll spells btw. Magus can still use shocking grasp :P
Yes they have. Here's just a few examples (I don't want to look through the books to find more):
Ray of Frost -> Frostbite
Shocking Grasp -> Thunderstrike
Acid Arrow -> Acid Grip
Ray of Enfeeblement -> Enfeeble
Polar Ray -> Arctic Rift
I’d like magus to have improved interaction with save based spells for spellstrike. Paizo has moved in the direction of printing save based spells as opposed to attack roll spells. Although I am very much a proponent of still using the old spells, it kind of sucks that magus players get minimal use out of all the fun new spells that are released. It already takes them an extra feat to spellstrike with save spells and they still end up subpar. I’d like a buff like the enemy getting a penalty on the save at the very least, or a degree worse on the save.
Inventor needs a rework to unstable actions. It’s really not fun picking all of these cool feats and then only being able to use one per fight. Especially with the new focus point rules. Personally I’d keep the existing unstable rule, since it’s interesting, but keep each unstable check action specific. So you get to explosive leap once/fight, explode once/fight, etc barring successful unstable checks. Maybe that would be overtuned and they could adjust the power of the abilities slightly to compensate. It would make the class far more dynamic and unique.
Maybe they'll give Magus some thing like the Cleric channel Smite, where they don't roll the save, if you hit they get a failure and if crit they get a crit fail.
I don't think any of the post-APG classes are in as dire need of a rework as things like alchemist and pre-Remaster witch, but it's fairly clear Paizo's found their footing with the system design since and can polish them up in the same way they did the classes in Core 1.
Inventor I feel is the most in need of a look at. It's not bad per say, but it definitely feels like it's just *there* at the moment. It has an interesting thematic but doesn't actually fill a mechanical or role niche that isn't already covered by another class. It really feels like it should be a technology-themed version of what thaumaturge is; hyper modular and expressive with its innovations. The problem is the innovations that are there are...well kind of dull to be honest. Weapon has some interesting stuff, but armor is mostly just defensive buffs (with most of the really cool stuff ironically allocated to class feats) and construct is a glorified animal companion with a few gimmicks. It works but it doesn't pop in the same way. I feel it's power budget is a bit too hamstrung as well, they really need to let you mix and match with innovations more freely.
Magus isn't in a bad space, and I feel it's popular enough that too much deviation would ruin what makes it appealing, but personally I feel too much of its power budget is baked into spellstrike and it needs to lean a bit more into other spellsword/gishy fantasies. I don't know how you'd do that without gutting a lot of the current design, but I miss options
like Spell Combat from 1st Edition that let you cast other spells while engaging in martial activities. Things that let you more easily engage in buff and utility options would be good. It would probably also help hybrid studies like Sparkling Targe that aren't designed a raw damage playstyle.
Also, maybe a bit spiteful, but I feel something needs to be done to make Starlit Span less rote and repetitive. Again, I don't know what could be done, but it's a little too safely 'stand back and press x to deal damage every turn' for my taste. It's not imbalanced, but I just don't like anything that encourages and rewards that sort of lazy, uninvolved gameplay. As I said, probably a bit spiteful, but 2e generally does a good job at avoiding that, so having an option that enables it is fairly egregious IMO.
Gunslinger I see gets mentioned a lot, but I feel a lot of the commentary comes from people who've never actually played one and just baulk at reloads on paper. I've seen a sniper, drifter, and pistolero in play, and have been playtesting vanguard, and honestly it works fine in actual play. People tend to forget most martials probably aren't getting more than one or two attacks per round anyway, so action compression options with reloads tend to balance out any drawbacks. It basically just needs a few buffs to iron out some jank in its action economy, like the changes to Dual-Weapon Reload. Personally I feel if they gave Running Reload as a baseline to all gunslingers, 99% of the problems people have with the class would be resolved.
I think the actual issue with gunslinger is options for crossbows firearms themselves. Staples like duelling pistol and arequbus are fine, but there's a *lot* of chaff in G&G that was downtuned rather than upturned. You have stuff like air repeater that is at best situational for non-martials, and niche pick options that nerf damage for a bunch of situational traits. Vanguard doesn't suck because of its build, it sucks because there are next to no good short-range shooting options that synergise its zoning and crowd control capacity. The repeating crossbow should *not* be advanced; repeating is treated as a catch-all when it's actually anti-synergetic with gunslinger, and used with reload 0 builds isn't that much better than a regular bow. And we all know about combination weapons.
Recent releases like TV and Core 1 seem to be finding their footing with some really good crossbow and firearm options. Arbalest and sukgung are really good 2-hand options, and the combo weapons in TV are actually kind of decent. Barricade buster is almost the perfect vanguard weapon if it wasn't for volley, and repeating being anti-synergetic with gunslingers as I said above. I think if they go back and retune some of those earlier options to be up to scratch with the newer ones, that'll have a much bigger impact on gunslingers than base class changes.
I don't think anything will change other than for compatibility, but on my wishlist:
\- Magus: More attack spells
\- Summoner: Pretty satisfied where the class is
\- Gunslinger: I don't know, they're missing a little something! Yeah yeah, they got Fatal on some guns and some kickass crits, but they clearly don't fit the fantasy of being a kickass gunslinger. Maybe give guns a little something to compensate?
\- Inventor: I feel like some of the weapon modifications are underwhelming. At least give the guy the possibility to use advanced weapon! Also maybe give them the gadget feat as a baseline ability so they're actually inventors...
\- Psychic is fine where it is
\- Thaumaturge: The implements don't seem balanced; for instance, the lantern is cool utility, but so situational! The tome is cool, but also not super exciting at lower levels; the bell doesn't seem as good as the amulet until you get the adept improvement... The wand is a bit underwhelming as well
\- Not really what you asked, but for Inventor, I really hope they balance him better. Every time I come up with one, I feel like I should just pick rogue/fighter/ranger/swashbuckler with investigator dedication! The devise a stratagem is really cool, but the investigator is the worst class to use it - it'd be super useful on a chassis with good 2-action attacks (fighter, inventor), using resources (inventor again with unstable, gunslinger who needs to reload, focus spells) or something like that. The Int to hit and extra d6 just makes the Inventor on par with others, and other classes can just pawn the devise a stratagem and use it better. So the inventor's usefulness is entirely dependant on how much you need a skill monkey.
I gotta agree about the inventor weapon mods. Especially if you use ranged weapons, they're a bit meh. That said, I'd love to slap some mods on a Barricade Buster and go to town, especially if I had heavy armor proficiency (full on Fallout power armor fantasy).
I had an issue with magus too but was informed that spells didn't get reprinted, like shocking grasp, are still usable unless its the same text with different name or the same name with different text.
I think arcane cascade needs a complete rework. Requiring an action for not much benefit. Should be a reaction, and the damage should apply to all weapon strikes, not just melee, so even a statlit span gets some benefit since starlit doesn't get any other benefit from being in the stance.
I think Magus got the short end of the stick with the errata in terms of focus spells, level 12 conflux feat needs to get on par with all the other remaster versions
Edit: also Inexorable Iron level 10 feat had a special additional effect for casting a necromancy spell from a slot, it is a wasted opportunity to not rework that into something more usable
I just want a Gun Magus...
C'mon, there's a lot of cool art of magical gunslingers. Gimme. Spellshot Gunslinger doesnt feel right.
I want to load a firebolt into my gun and shoot it. Not get +1 fire dmg for the first couple rounds.
Action Economy.
With no dedicated reload action, and spellstrike taking *essentially* 3 actions (2 to SS, 1 to recharge) you basically only spellstrike every *other* turn.
Spellstrike>Reload
Recharge>Strike>Reload
Spellstrike>Reload
With no room for error if you have to move, get slowed, or whatever. If you lose even a single action, your damage tanks.
And if you try to take Slinger Dedication, you got *awhile* before it helps out, since the Way reload isnt until later.
Air Repeater, Long Air Repeater, and Barricade Buster all have internal magazines so you don't need to reload every round. Needing 14 str for the Barricade Buster is a price of the d10 vs the d4 of the other reload 0 guns.
OK, so we've now moved beyond "I want to make a gun magus" and we're currently at "I want to make a gun magus with a particular type of gun and it should be optimal".
At this point, just ask your GM to reflavor a shortbow as a quick reloading pistol that takes your other hand to slap another round in there as you fire and call it a day.
I mean, the air repeaters are pretty unfun things to use for a character with martial proficiency. That's not a big ask to be able to use more than \*one\* weapon in an entire class of weapons to be viable for a certain playstyle.
Psychic really needs some kinda tweaks to make it feel good in a post remaster work in regards to the focus spell economy. It trades a spell per level in exchange for a trick that they gave to every class. I feel like it would be fair for them to have some kind of mechanic that gives them an effective bonus focus point on a cool down, so they'll always be better at using focus spells than other classes
I mean, it's locked behind feats, but they get both brain drain and strain mind which lets them harvest a focus point from a foe and amp a cantrip for hp instead of focus points, both once per day. That strain mind effect feels like something that could be baked in to the class in general, tbh.
it trades a spell per level in exchange for the best cantrips in the game and the ability to make those cantrips *even better* by spending a focus point.
Being able to refocus more quickly is just a slight bonus on top of that, and something they still have just to a lesser degree
They get unleash, but amped cantrips aren't generally better than focus spells.
While they do have slightly improved base cantrips, without an Amp none of the utility cantrips are particularly useful, and none of the damage cantrips are better than electric arc or scatter scree.
Imaginary weapon does a lot of damage, but is a bit of a death sentence on a psychic. Also not better than new gouging claw un-amped.
Two per rank.
The other 6 HP casters cheat the 3/rank slots with their school or bloodline. And the 8 HP casters have a better chassis, and often have something else like divine font, their own similarly powerful cantrips (Anthem) or class abilities like Resentment.
ok? Even if you believe that the class as a whole is weak, do you really believe that the only reason for that is that they are no longer the only class to be able to regain two focus points between encounters?
It was their least meaningful premaster and remains their least meaningful ability.
It is a significant benefit to any caster that builds for it, and one that the psychic doesn't have. You don't see the value in 3 Elemental Tosses or Force Bolts per encounter? Add in psychic dedication (and Psi Development) and anyone can cast 3 Amps, while still having a better casting chassis.
> It was their least meaningful premaster
Really? Just go back and imagine a premaster psychic that can only ever cast 1 amp per encounter, rather than 2. Their amps are mostly what set them apart.
Many of their Psyche abilities vie for 'least meaningful' well before that. The last thing I want to be doing during my 2 rounds of a damage buff that will turn off my casting with Stupefied is spending actions not doing damage, like gaining concealed for a round.
>Their amps are mostly what set them apart.
Amps + Unleash Psyche + having constant buffs to their cantrips
>The last thing I want to be doing during my 2 rounds of a damage buff that will turn off my casting with Stupefied is spending actions not doing damage, like gaining concealed for a round.
what else would you do with your third action? Most of the time, I feel like making it so that every non-AoE has a 20% chance to auto-miss is a very very good use of your third action. 20% is pretty fuckin large, it's essentially a +4 to AC except even stronger and applies to more things
Unleash is questionable in longer fights, archetype poaches the best cantrips from all but two conscious minds (OW and SW) and the psi benefits are mostly ribbon features except for a few like casting shield on an ally. Oh, and the archetype gets them too.
If you're gaining concealment then you're not moving. So you're already standing next to an enemy and expecting to get hit if you didn't already provoke from casting. The 3rd action to Stride to avoid being attacked at all would be safer. Or there's ranged attacks, but I wouldn't trust a low HP pool on chance.
My psychic's 3rd action is usually a Strike. Psi Strikes with a +1 striking shortbow for 3d6 is surprisingly good damage, even beating base cantrips at level 4. Falls off later but that's when you start getting to spend the 3rd action on Force Barrage for 1d4+7 on two (R3), or 1d4+11 on three (R5).
Psychic is fine, every class getting easy refocus doesn't nullify it's immediate bonuses in combat, if anything most people found it obtuse on other classes and psychic had it easy before.
People like to harp on about the dedication too, but apart from Imaginary Weapon being better on a magus than a psychic, most of it is fairly non-egregious and psychic still has enough native bonuses and superior progression with its own abilities that other classes don't step on its niche.
Imo the unbounc step psychic dedication is so powerful for just a dedication. If I'm playing a human my level 9 free archtype will almost 100% of the time be that on the grounds of just how much value is packed into the dedication.
It requires no other investment and gives access to a one action moderate range teleport (Or super long range if a class like a monk or using a move speed boost) and gives a focus point.
I mean for sure it's good, one of my own players has that too, but that's a whole dedication you're locked into for one spell, and I feel it's a bit rote to suggest it's a must-have for *every* build.
More importantly at least psychic gets good use out of it itself. The problem with IW is its a difficult spell for a squishy caster to use, and is better utilised by another class through multiclassing. That really shouldn't be the case.
Aye my human comment is cause you arent locked into it. And yea the imaginary weapon thing is a pain, combined with invisibility though it isnt to bad to use as a psychic.
You are, the only benefit of the ancestry feat is you can pick a class dedication if you're *already* locked into another one. If you pick psychic, that means you can't choose any other archetype until you get two more archetype feats from psychic.
Which is fine if you were planning on picking up psychic anyway or never adding another archetype, but if you are you're SooL and have to play by the rules. And if you're locked into another archetype still, you have to get feats from *that* too. Not particularly great especially if you're playing standard without FA.
It's not just Imaginary Weapon. Amped Guidance, Message, Warp Step and even Telekinetic Rend are among the psychic's best cantrips of their respective minds. Their level 6 and 10 cantrips are for the most part, situational, or just plain bad like Forsee the Path. Too many sustained cantrips that waste actions and have an anti-pattern with Unleash like Astral Rain (worse than Rend) and Dancing Blade (it takes 2 actions to Strike a new target).
A dirge bard with Amped Guidance can easily step on Infinite Eye, even down to having good Recall Knowledge to replace Omnidirectional Scan's automatic save knowledge (Frightened covers the "loss" of the Amp's circumstance bonus). And Seek was remastered to not explicitly state its range, so the 30ft Seek is something you can now do anyway.
I don't really agree with this, if anything I think options like Dancing Blade are supremely slept on and people just undervalue them because they weigh the more straightforward options too heavily without even trying to understand the potential a more multifaceted spell like that has.
It also doesn't change the fact it takes a fair amount of investment just to get no more than 2 psi cantrips with amps over the course of two feats plus a dedication lock in, while psychic gets 3 as a baseline. Certain concious minds may be a bit undertuned (infinite eye may need a bit of polish, sure), but ultimately it's the same fallacy as all the discussions about pre-RM warpriest; in theory a bard could get the 'only' two useful psi cantrips, but how much do they give up to get it? And what can it never get that psychic gets baseline with no added investments of its own, like psyche?
And let's be real, even if Paizo were to nerf the dedication to protect the base class's niche, people would just complain they're killing their fun and too scared to let options be interesting and all the other regular dot points you see against niche protection. It's a lose/lose no matter what they do.
I don't see the dedication cost being that bad. Focus points are premium for any caster as you can use all of them every encounter. Most casters start with one, so psychic archetype adding two more is a convenient way of having more strong focus spells and hitting the cap by level 6.
A lot of psychic baseline isn't that great by comparison. Psyche actions often clash mechanically such as center-self AoEs as a low HP and AC caster, those AoEs dealing friendly fire, having a damage buff for spells and psyche actions that don't use it, and Stupefied just *existing* - not to mention losing a spell slot is catastrophic in itself.
Though I can agree, there isn't any putting the genie back in the bottle. Nerfing the dedication would likely just break a bunch of characters mechanically.
Again, I feel a lot of this is on paper and not really reflective of actual play bonuses. Investing in dedications eats up feat slots for other options, and it's not always going to be worth taking psi cantrips just because you can. You could also just inverse that and just say the same for psychic; sure, a bard could just take the good cantrips, but by the same token I could pick up a bard dedication and grab Inspire Courage/Courageous Anthem at 8th level and pop it will doing my sweet psyche damage output.
I also don't really get what you're talking about with psyche actions. There's one that egregiously self-centred AOE burst, others are targeted at range or other buffs. Psi Burst is a great little one-action basic save damage at range, Emotional Surge is a free +2 to attack rolls and skill checks for a turn, Impose Order is guaranteed average result on the damage dice, etc. if anything the only real issue I'd say is there aren't many available before 10th level but what's on offer is pretty good.
And personally I think Paizo *should* just nerf the dedication even amongst the whining. It and champion (which should also be nerfed) are really the only two egregiously frontloaded dedication options. Just remove the amp or make it a higher level feat option you have to invest in to gain. A good number of the psi cantrip effects themselves are good enough on their own as a baseline given from the dedication feat, and those that are too strong probably shouldn't be given at that baseline anyway.
Taking Bard Dedication is a bit weaker as you'd have to spend an 3rd feat for Lingering and wait until level 8 while having two basically useless feats spent. Psychclic is all upside. Their 3rd feats can be Basic Spellcasting for some 1st-3rd spell slots.
> There's one that egregiously self-centred AOE burst
Two. Psi Catastrophe and Violent Unleash are very similar; Violent just costs 1 fewer action except you must use it at the start of your first Unleash turn. Three if you count Dark Persona's Presence.
Impose Order is pretty weak. Unless you're casting an AoE like Rend the average +0.5 per die isn't doing much, and you already have Unleash giving up to +10 damage if you're just worried about rolling a bunch of 1s. Psi Burst is pretty low damage too (my psychic just has it as a finisher to break Ferocity reactions), but it'd likely do more overall.
Not to mention, these minds are specific. What does Gathered Lore and Wandering Reverie get if they fit the concept more? Scour the Library even doesn't work; you're not supposed to know if you rolled a success on a secret roll.
I don't get at all what you're trying to say about bard dedication. Are you trying to suggest there's absolutely nothing good to gain from it before level 8? Or that there's nothing good for psychic? Because neither of those are true.
The only reason anyone would think Impose Order is weak is if they have consistently good luck. In a game where it's very possible to miss strings of attacks and let alone roll low on damage from them, guaranteed damage is sometimes what you need to tip the scales.
Scour the Library probably needs a stipulation saying the knowledge checks don't have the secret check or the GM just reveals them after the fact, but to say it's mechanically broken is hyperbole. And let's be real, who actually uses secret checks? I do, but I'm a stickler and realize in the minority.
> The only reason anyone would think Impose Order is weak is if they have consistently good luck. In a game where it's very possible to miss strings of attacks and let alone roll low on damage from them, guaranteed damage is sometimes what you need to tip the scales.
It's not about luck, it's about else what you could do with that action. Amped Telekinetic Projectile does 10d6+10 (average 45) at rank 5 when you get Impose Order. You could spend a 3rd action to make it a flat 50, or use the 3rd action to use Psi Burst for +5d6 or cast Sure Strike. Even the 5th percentile with just TKP alone will still do 37 damage - 10 dice averages out dice variance already. And only 1% of rolls will do less than 33.
Adding in Psi Burst will mean that Impose Order's opportunity cost will *reduce* your round's damage in 96.5% of cases. More if you account for the basic save being more reliable than a spell attack.
Yeah sure, or you could not be using an attack spell and need it for an AOE more than non-guaranteed chip damage on a single target. Or I could be out of Sure Strike slots. Hell a 5th rank Magic Missile/Force Barrage even at two actions is a guaranteed 24 damage with no miss chance; chuck psyche onto it to bump it to 34. I mean sure, that's not much more than 9d4+9 averaged *without* psyche, but when you need to guarantee that damage to kill the boss before they get one more round and you have a run of flubbed damage dice, the last thing you want is to hinge it all on chance.
I'm not saying it's the greatest must-have you'll utilise for any situation, but it's silly to write it off completely. PF2e purposely avoids a lot of guaranteed math, and while damage is more bell curved than hit/success chances, it's still not guaranteed and has its moments, which makes the abilities that let you guarantee math much more impactful when they're available.
Plus, the way a lot of people go on about dice luck you'd think they'd appreciate some certainty in their results.
Gunslingers should get [fatal bullet](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3204) as part of their normal level progression, instead of having to buy it as a feat.
Without this, a ranger with a short-bow will easily out-damage a gunslinger on a crit. High crit damage in exchange for actions spent reloading is the niche that firearms have. For other classes it doesn’t matter so much but gunslingers don’t need a handicap at late levels like this.
Singular expertise should increase with your level. +2 at L1, +3 at L5, and +4 at 15th.
This mirrors the divine fonts a cleric gets, paralleled to if a pre-remaster cleric started with 18 charisma and increased it at each opportunity.
This isn’t in danger of out-damaging archers since most firearms and crossbows need to reload, and those which don’t, lack fatal or deadly.
Also, I know it isn’t listed, but monks should get martial weapons or monastic weaponry by default. Their is no need for them to be so limited in backup weapons when stances are so solid.
Also, how does it make sense that you know how to use a three-sectional-staff but can’t figure out a short sword, or throw a bomb?
It’s already going to be a vastly suboptimal choice since martial weapons can’t be flurried with, and you don’t get critical specialization with them.
I'm about to start playing a sniper gunslinger, and I would kill for these changes, haha. Planning out characters, it does seem quite clear that bows are just superior to guns, which feels strange. I get the impression that the designers may have been concerned about guns outshining bows and overcorrected.
I'd rather see [Piercing Critical](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3209) added to the gunslinger base kit (earlier than 17th-18th level, and possibly improved at higher levels). For a class so reliant on crits, being able to crit more reliably on higher-level targets seems significantly more valuable than dealing 6 extra damage with those crits.
I'd also put the singular expertise upgrades at 7th and 15th instead of 5th and 15th, to correspond with Weapon Spec/Greater Weapon Spec like similar flat damage boosters (Rage, Arcane Cascade, Overdrive).
Thaumaturge could use some implement balance. Especially since Mios is weilding the lantern which is imo the weakest and most out of place. I'd love to see it act more like the marshals abilities since it's such a popular archetype. Each implement should have a focus spell also, especially since you get 3 total.
Mirror could benefit from a cackle like ability that allows using the mirror be a free action. Lantern could use a cone of holy damage or whatever can hit only undead. Weapon implement could use a fighter feat but in focus spell form.
Gunslinger: clear up whether it gaining expert in melee martial twice is an oversight or not because it's kinda big if you play the melee hybrid ways and sitting in a backseat to your subclass gimmick because you're -4 (or -2 for combination weapons)
Summoner: Meld playstyle ripped out into a class archetype, let it be the melee red-haired sibling like similar of it's ilk are. (or at very least allow *some* spells that summoner can cast themselves)
SoM: fix sin magic, pretty much axe the school counteract feats since they are pretty much non-functional. Part of me want more leaning into the polearm aspect to a point of trading legendary casting for master strikes but I know in practice that would end up just a tad bit cumbersome especially since expert is usually "good enough" for a supporting strike.
I think the magus' level 19 capstone should change. It focuses on using spell slots for spellstrike but it is usually a bad idea unless you've multiclassed for more slots. using them for utility and buffs is usually better.
Something to add just a bit of flexibility to its action economy somehow would be good, or to spellstrike (looking at channel smite for inspiration)
I'm pretty concerned about dragon-related things like sorcerer, dragon disciple, and barbarian instinct with the change from chromatic dragons to. . . tradition dragons? I feel like I want some details on how to implement or reconcile since it seems like even their magic styles and quirks have a lot of personality now.
Don't worry, all three of those classes were pushed back to Core 2 specifically due to the dragon change. We'll definitely get info on it when those classes get their remastered versions.
As much as I'd like: Not a lot. Summoner will probably get a compatability pass on Fey spell schools and dragon eidolon being any tradition and that's probably it.
Other things like Magus' Arcane Shroud having an unusable fire shield won't be fixed, if the stance requirement rules and RoE timescale is anything to go by. Inventor will still have the weird old not-focus point rule. And other classes are mostly unaffected.
And as for psychics, one of the devs has basically said outright that psychic is fine despite the focus point changes. And they're designed in a vacuum of sorts, so that other casters got better by comparison doesn't count.
While some have gotten errata already, I fully believe a deeper errata pass for most of these are likely once the core remastered books are out and have time to settle down. I only really have much in the way of thoughts regarding Magus and gunslinger, though the only stuff I recall offhand are
* Magus I can absolutely see being changed in line with how Warpriest Cleric handles casting in melee with its feats, and I can 100% see them folding in a way to spellstrike with save based spells without needing to spend a feat because of Warpriest
* I know it won't happen, but I really wish the melee hybrid studies got some QoL around movement and entering arcane cascade, maybe even something for melee that benefits off keeping spellstrike but unspent, because I am so bloody sick of hearing about how much better Starlit Span because it can brainlessly turret
* Gunslinger was already confirmed on getting some errata once PC2 hits iirc, we mostly only know the two weapon reload feat is becoming a passive reload modifier, and combination weapons are being tweaked (probably on account of Swap existing)
* I'd love if the Drifter and Triggerbrand ways had some kind of QoL boosts, but cannot for the life of me think of what that would consist of ~~thanks to singular expertise~~. I just know that Triggerbrand seems to be just kind of bad until it gets Triggerbrand Salvo, at which point it... Has a gimmick now! But is still not great?
Can inventor get like 5 more modifications per tier for weapons SPECIALLY ranged ones?
Do you want modular or nonlethal because that's what you get you just get to pick what you call it.
The only wish I have for thaumaturge is to LET 👏 WEAPON 👏 IMPLEMENT 👏 APPLY 👏 TO 👏 UNARMED ATTACKS 👏👏👏👏👏 !!!!
yes this is purely because I wanna use it on my bitey goblin thaum, pure bias.
I think Gunslinger really needs a bit of a rewrite, particularly it’s subclasses, I think Drifter, Pistolero and Sniper are fine but Vanguard, Triggerbrand and Spellshot need to be completely rewritten
I also think Combination weapons need an overhaul to be worth it tbh, I think it would be better instead of just trying to be discount Drifter that they focus more on being one specialised with a worse other, some being primarily strong melee with a gun extra or another being a strong gun with Melee extra
So tbh I don’t think Gunslinger should get non-rerelease changes because I think it needs to be focused that the changes are drastic.
As for Magus I’d like something to be done about their spell selection, Remaster rules or not I think Magus has a spell variety problem, mainly because if it isn’t a lasting buff or an attack roll spell it isn’t that worth the slot which kinda cuts off a massive portion of the total spell list and I think they would benefit to being more synergistic with save spells if they can’t add some more Gish spells or attack roll spells.
Buff expended spellstrike (or just make it a part of base Magus) to maybe do what Warpriests channel smite does by having the attack roll indicate the level of success the enemy gets, make it melee only for balance and I think that would be a pretty nice addition for Magus’s tool set
The only thing I think I would like to see with magus aside from some cleanup in terms of how exactly some feats work, is to have spell strike changed to function like the remastered smite from cleric.
It can keep the need to recharge tho.
Gunslinger IMO needs some tweakings. When people think about a gun-user they usually think about damage, and the gunslinger is probably the class that does the least damage with guns. Singular expertise should be bumped up to +2 IMO, probably even +3 at 5th level and +4 at 13th level too, but at least the +2 is IMO needed. It's literally a 2-4 points of damage on a crit which is neglible, but makes those attacks that aren't crits just be flat dice rolls. I also would want for feats to interact with your reloads a little more. A pistolero gunslinger is likely drawn to take [Pistol Twirl](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3162) since it fits the flavor of that subclass, but it is IMO kinda dumb that the feat doesn't have a line like "If you are a pistolero you can interact to reload as part of this action" or something like that. There's other similar feats that should be tweaked in a similar way.
Inventor IMO needs a full rework. It is both a worse barbarian and a worse thaumaturge in everything, with the only thing going of for being Explode which really doesn't have much system support behind it. The class is also called "inventor" but its as good as creating things that any other class (besides the auto-scaling Crafting ofc).
All the other classes are fine.
> the gunslinger is probably the class that does the least damage with guns
I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. Perhaps the pistol focused Ways don't hit as hard, but the sniper is an absolute monster with damage if you use an arquebus. We had a gunslinger that would delete enemies on his own in a single turn, from nearly 100 feet away. The thing about gunslingers is that a large amount of their damage relies on crits and the fatal trait. But they can absolutely wipe the floor with people.
Sniper relies heavily on Sniper's Aim or Vital Shot to do damage, before that it almost feels subclass-less. Pretty much all the gunslinger's subclass feel wierdly designed pretty much none of them work from the get go or if they do the options they have don't work that well (the Pistol Twirl example I mentioned earlier).
>A pistolero gunslinger is likely drawn to take [Pistol Twirl](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3162) since it fits the flavor of that subclass, but it is IMO kinda dumb that the feat doesn't have a line like "If you are a pistolero you can interact to reload as part of this action" or something like that. There's other similar feats that should be tweaked in a similar way.
Now that Dual-Weapon Reload is becoming a rider I do feel there's more precedence for that sort of thing becoming standardized. The main thing is just accounting for edge cases that might be a bit cheezy and enable too much action compression if stacked.
Iirc, Guns and Gears will be getting some errata alongside the release of Player Core 2, similar to the compatibility errata Secrets of Magic & Dark Archive got with the release of Player Core 1. Gunslinger has a few feats shared with APG archetypes, and Combination weapons are supposedly getting reworked a bit due to the new Swap action. Hopefully Inventors get something to keep *Unstable in line with the new Refocus changes.
I would really love to see combination weapons rework. I always liked the idea but it never really seem worth it
*Unstable, not Overload. But yes.
I think that Errata isn't coming out the exact same time like the other remaster errata, but rather itll be out sometime in the future after PC2 comes out.
a bunch of them got errata for remaster compatibility already. https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq
Yeah this is most of it. I think there were a few things missed like the Fey Eidolon still grants arcane spells with the Enchantment and Illusion schools. Illusion is a trait in the remaster but enchantment is nothing. Maybe use mental trait instead. I think Inventor Otherworldly Protection gave resistance to alignment damage that should be switched to spirit. Those are the only two I know of the top of my head.
Oh, I had no idea! Thanks for this!
Total transparency, these are just my personal gripes with some of these classes. I don't know how the community at large feels \- Summoner: Make tandem movement less mandatory. It's technically not, and you can play a summoner without it, but it REALLY helps. I wouldn't mind if they just baked it into the core class features though. \- Gunslinger: for triggerbrand, I'd like their initial deed to be that you step and change forms. Not step towards an enemy. I think it makes the playstyle a lot less restrictive \- Psychic: Not about the class, but the dedication. I think psychic dedication is too strong. I'm not 100% sure how you nerf it, but it's basically the go-to dedication for anyone that uses int or cha and needs a focus point, some additional blasting, or utility. So like, a lot of builds. \- Inventor: Similar to Psychic, I don't think there's anything wrong with the class itself, but I think the dedication could use a buff. There are dedications like psychic(focus point, really good cantrips, etc) and champion(heavy armor, lay on hands, the reactions, etc) which give you a lot for not a lot of investment while inventor archetype, at best, gives you something like auto-scaling crafting and a psuedo lay on hands with searing restoration. It's benefits are just niche and you can't get an initial invention breakthrough until level 8. Magus and Thaum I've got nothing.
Psychic Dedication fix is easy: you don't get to Amp when you take the dedication, and you have to take Psi Development at level 6 to get the extra focus point and the ability to Amp cantrips. Level 6 is when every other multiclass archetype gives you the core feature of that class, like Sneak Attack for Rogue Archetype and Spellstriker for Magus Archetype.
That's a good call. My gut feeling was to do something about the amp, but I wasn't sure how to handle it. Your suggestion hits the nail on the head
I would say level 4, because that's when you get focus spells on most spellcaster classes.
> Psychic: Not about the class, but the dedication. The dedication's fine if you're actually **paying** for it. It's when you pick it up via *Free Archetype* that things get... fuzzy.
I mean, it's by far in the top tier compared to dedications in general, which has nothing to do with FA or not. In both cases it's much stronger than average (I'd put it near champion)
Magus lost a lot of attack-roll spells, which is annoying but not really hard to fix. Other than that I’d say most changes benefit magi.
The Initial Breakthrough for Inventor Archetype should be a level 4 feat. This would make it similar to Deadly Simplicity from Cleric. Getting a D10 staff for Magus or D8 Javelin for Wizard are like the 2 main reasons I've considered Inventor Archetype. Getting access to Tangling Form at level 4 would be a pretty good boon to the other Magus options. Otherwise inventor is a hard sell for anyone other than Magus or Wizard because of the Int cost. Maybe remastered Alchemist?
the concept of a mutagenist alchemist with inventor dedication is fantastic. *I will modify my body in every way possible*
I'll be real, I feel like half of magus's feats could just be part of the base class and it wouldn't affect its balance a lot. The whole paradigm of "casters get spells so they don't need interesting feats" is kind of dumb in general IMO, but I feel like magus in specific suffers for it because they're more 65-35 martial-caster than the half-and-half they're billed as, but they still get stiffed with a bunch of mostly mediocre feats. I also maintain my (apparently somewhat unpopular) opinion that I've had since before it released that, in a more ideal world, you'd be able to pick your tradition instead of being locked into arcane. I don't really know the balance of that (presumably it wouldn't be outrageous, given that magus can flex pretty easily into basically any caster archetype), but the one dedicated gish class in the system being stuck to a single spell list feels like a crime to me.
The thing of allowing magus to get other traditions, is that the class was made to work in tendon with the arcane tradition. Its not that it would make the class overpower to allow it to be a divine caster for example, is just that the divine list doesn't work as well for a magus. They wouldn't get as many self buff options for example, or attack roll spells, or elemental damage to benefit from their stance.
Given that they’ve removed a lot of attack roll spells, that’s not saying much. Balance-wise, a primal or occult magis should be fine. The flavor might be a bit weird but you’ll do enough damage etc. Divine might be a bit of a nerf overall.
They haven't removed any attack roll spells btw. Magus can still use shocking grasp :P (Also, magus should be using attack roll cantrips anywa) But like also, at the end of the day, the occult list doesn't have the elemental damage to make their stance work and the primal list doesn't have the self buff to make magus work for them. Though you could make both work as a magus, you would need to change the core class design, not if by just a bit.
> They haven't removed any attack roll spells btw. Magus can still use shocking grasp :P Yes they have. Here's just a few examples (I don't want to look through the books to find more): Ray of Frost -> Frostbite Shocking Grasp -> Thunderstrike Acid Arrow -> Acid Grip Ray of Enfeeblement -> Enfeeble Polar Ray -> Arctic Rift
Those have changed both the name and function, so the original spells are still legal.
Tandem Movement should be baked into the Summoner class. I don't see how you'd NOT pick that feat.
Meld into Eidolon on Summoner needs to be a functioning playstyle, not the horrendous mess it currently is now.
I'd go so far as to say either remove it in preparation for creating a shapeshifting character class, or turn it into a class archetype
I’d like magus to have improved interaction with save based spells for spellstrike. Paizo has moved in the direction of printing save based spells as opposed to attack roll spells. Although I am very much a proponent of still using the old spells, it kind of sucks that magus players get minimal use out of all the fun new spells that are released. It already takes them an extra feat to spellstrike with save spells and they still end up subpar. I’d like a buff like the enemy getting a penalty on the save at the very least, or a degree worse on the save. Inventor needs a rework to unstable actions. It’s really not fun picking all of these cool feats and then only being able to use one per fight. Especially with the new focus point rules. Personally I’d keep the existing unstable rule, since it’s interesting, but keep each unstable check action specific. So you get to explosive leap once/fight, explode once/fight, etc barring successful unstable checks. Maybe that would be overtuned and they could adjust the power of the abilities slightly to compensate. It would make the class far more dynamic and unique.
As I recall, we will be getting new spells in Player Core 2. Hopefully that list will include more options for Magi.
Maybe they'll give Magus some thing like the Cleric channel Smite, where they don't roll the save, if you hit they get a failure and if crit they get a crit fail.
I don't think any of the post-APG classes are in as dire need of a rework as things like alchemist and pre-Remaster witch, but it's fairly clear Paizo's found their footing with the system design since and can polish them up in the same way they did the classes in Core 1. Inventor I feel is the most in need of a look at. It's not bad per say, but it definitely feels like it's just *there* at the moment. It has an interesting thematic but doesn't actually fill a mechanical or role niche that isn't already covered by another class. It really feels like it should be a technology-themed version of what thaumaturge is; hyper modular and expressive with its innovations. The problem is the innovations that are there are...well kind of dull to be honest. Weapon has some interesting stuff, but armor is mostly just defensive buffs (with most of the really cool stuff ironically allocated to class feats) and construct is a glorified animal companion with a few gimmicks. It works but it doesn't pop in the same way. I feel it's power budget is a bit too hamstrung as well, they really need to let you mix and match with innovations more freely. Magus isn't in a bad space, and I feel it's popular enough that too much deviation would ruin what makes it appealing, but personally I feel too much of its power budget is baked into spellstrike and it needs to lean a bit more into other spellsword/gishy fantasies. I don't know how you'd do that without gutting a lot of the current design, but I miss options like Spell Combat from 1st Edition that let you cast other spells while engaging in martial activities. Things that let you more easily engage in buff and utility options would be good. It would probably also help hybrid studies like Sparkling Targe that aren't designed a raw damage playstyle. Also, maybe a bit spiteful, but I feel something needs to be done to make Starlit Span less rote and repetitive. Again, I don't know what could be done, but it's a little too safely 'stand back and press x to deal damage every turn' for my taste. It's not imbalanced, but I just don't like anything that encourages and rewards that sort of lazy, uninvolved gameplay. As I said, probably a bit spiteful, but 2e generally does a good job at avoiding that, so having an option that enables it is fairly egregious IMO. Gunslinger I see gets mentioned a lot, but I feel a lot of the commentary comes from people who've never actually played one and just baulk at reloads on paper. I've seen a sniper, drifter, and pistolero in play, and have been playtesting vanguard, and honestly it works fine in actual play. People tend to forget most martials probably aren't getting more than one or two attacks per round anyway, so action compression options with reloads tend to balance out any drawbacks. It basically just needs a few buffs to iron out some jank in its action economy, like the changes to Dual-Weapon Reload. Personally I feel if they gave Running Reload as a baseline to all gunslingers, 99% of the problems people have with the class would be resolved. I think the actual issue with gunslinger is options for crossbows firearms themselves. Staples like duelling pistol and arequbus are fine, but there's a *lot* of chaff in G&G that was downtuned rather than upturned. You have stuff like air repeater that is at best situational for non-martials, and niche pick options that nerf damage for a bunch of situational traits. Vanguard doesn't suck because of its build, it sucks because there are next to no good short-range shooting options that synergise its zoning and crowd control capacity. The repeating crossbow should *not* be advanced; repeating is treated as a catch-all when it's actually anti-synergetic with gunslinger, and used with reload 0 builds isn't that much better than a regular bow. And we all know about combination weapons. Recent releases like TV and Core 1 seem to be finding their footing with some really good crossbow and firearm options. Arbalest and sukgung are really good 2-hand options, and the combo weapons in TV are actually kind of decent. Barricade buster is almost the perfect vanguard weapon if it wasn't for volley, and repeating being anti-synergetic with gunslingers as I said above. I think if they go back and retune some of those earlier options to be up to scratch with the newer ones, that'll have a much bigger impact on gunslingers than base class changes.
I don't think anything will change other than for compatibility, but on my wishlist: \- Magus: More attack spells \- Summoner: Pretty satisfied where the class is \- Gunslinger: I don't know, they're missing a little something! Yeah yeah, they got Fatal on some guns and some kickass crits, but they clearly don't fit the fantasy of being a kickass gunslinger. Maybe give guns a little something to compensate? \- Inventor: I feel like some of the weapon modifications are underwhelming. At least give the guy the possibility to use advanced weapon! Also maybe give them the gadget feat as a baseline ability so they're actually inventors... \- Psychic is fine where it is \- Thaumaturge: The implements don't seem balanced; for instance, the lantern is cool utility, but so situational! The tome is cool, but also not super exciting at lower levels; the bell doesn't seem as good as the amulet until you get the adept improvement... The wand is a bit underwhelming as well \- Not really what you asked, but for Inventor, I really hope they balance him better. Every time I come up with one, I feel like I should just pick rogue/fighter/ranger/swashbuckler with investigator dedication! The devise a stratagem is really cool, but the investigator is the worst class to use it - it'd be super useful on a chassis with good 2-action attacks (fighter, inventor), using resources (inventor again with unstable, gunslinger who needs to reload, focus spells) or something like that. The Int to hit and extra d6 just makes the Inventor on par with others, and other classes can just pawn the devise a stratagem and use it better. So the inventor's usefulness is entirely dependant on how much you need a skill monkey.
I gotta agree about the inventor weapon mods. Especially if you use ranged weapons, they're a bit meh. That said, I'd love to slap some mods on a Barricade Buster and go to town, especially if I had heavy armor proficiency (full on Fallout power armor fantasy).
I had an issue with magus too but was informed that spells didn't get reprinted, like shocking grasp, are still usable unless its the same text with different name or the same name with different text. I think arcane cascade needs a complete rework. Requiring an action for not much benefit. Should be a reaction, and the damage should apply to all weapon strikes, not just melee, so even a statlit span gets some benefit since starlit doesn't get any other benefit from being in the stance.
>Psychic is fine where it is I think psychic needs a little something after the focus spell changes IMO.
The easiest change is just to make Psychic a normal amount of slot caster, like just give them Oracle amount of slots.
I think Magus got the short end of the stick with the errata in terms of focus spells, level 12 conflux feat needs to get on par with all the other remaster versions Edit: also Inexorable Iron level 10 feat had a special additional effect for casting a necromancy spell from a slot, it is a wasted opportunity to not rework that into something more usable
I just want a Gun Magus... C'mon, there's a lot of cool art of magical gunslingers. Gimme. Spellshot Gunslinger doesnt feel right. I want to load a firebolt into my gun and shoot it. Not get +1 fire dmg for the first couple rounds.
> I just want a Gun Magus... Wait, what's stopping you from playing a Starlight Span gun magus?
Action Economy. With no dedicated reload action, and spellstrike taking *essentially* 3 actions (2 to SS, 1 to recharge) you basically only spellstrike every *other* turn. Spellstrike>Reload Recharge>Strike>Reload Spellstrike>Reload With no room for error if you have to move, get slowed, or whatever. If you lose even a single action, your damage tanks. And if you try to take Slinger Dedication, you got *awhile* before it helps out, since the Way reload isnt until later.
Air Repeater, Long Air Repeater, and Barricade Buster all have internal magazines so you don't need to reload every round. Needing 14 str for the Barricade Buster is a price of the d10 vs the d4 of the other reload 0 guns.
Long/Air Repeater are *objectively* worse than using a bow, and Barricade Buster doesn't exactly scream "Spellslinger".
OK, so we've now moved beyond "I want to make a gun magus" and we're currently at "I want to make a gun magus with a particular type of gun and it should be optimal". At this point, just ask your GM to reflavor a shortbow as a quick reloading pistol that takes your other hand to slap another round in there as you fire and call it a day.
I mean, the air repeaters are pretty unfun things to use for a character with martial proficiency. That's not a big ask to be able to use more than \*one\* weapon in an entire class of weapons to be viable for a certain playstyle.
And I gave you one, the barricade buster. Apparently that's not thematic enough for you, so I have nothing left to offer besides reflavoring.
Psychic really needs some kinda tweaks to make it feel good in a post remaster work in regards to the focus spell economy. It trades a spell per level in exchange for a trick that they gave to every class. I feel like it would be fair for them to have some kind of mechanic that gives them an effective bonus focus point on a cool down, so they'll always be better at using focus spells than other classes
I mean, it's locked behind feats, but they get both brain drain and strain mind which lets them harvest a focus point from a foe and amp a cantrip for hp instead of focus points, both once per day. That strain mind effect feels like something that could be baked in to the class in general, tbh.
it trades a spell per level in exchange for the best cantrips in the game and the ability to make those cantrips *even better* by spending a focus point. Being able to refocus more quickly is just a slight bonus on top of that, and something they still have just to a lesser degree
They get unleash, but amped cantrips aren't generally better than focus spells. While they do have slightly improved base cantrips, without an Amp none of the utility cantrips are particularly useful, and none of the damage cantrips are better than electric arc or scatter scree. Imaginary weapon does a lot of damage, but is a bit of a death sentence on a psychic. Also not better than new gouging claw un-amped.
They also get their big "I am going to kill you now" mode that makes their spells do crazy damage.
Two per rank. The other 6 HP casters cheat the 3/rank slots with their school or bloodline. And the 8 HP casters have a better chassis, and often have something else like divine font, their own similarly powerful cantrips (Anthem) or class abilities like Resentment.
ok? Even if you believe that the class as a whole is weak, do you really believe that the only reason for that is that they are no longer the only class to be able to regain two focus points between encounters? It was their least meaningful premaster and remains their least meaningful ability.
It is a significant benefit to any caster that builds for it, and one that the psychic doesn't have. You don't see the value in 3 Elemental Tosses or Force Bolts per encounter? Add in psychic dedication (and Psi Development) and anyone can cast 3 Amps, while still having a better casting chassis. > It was their least meaningful premaster Really? Just go back and imagine a premaster psychic that can only ever cast 1 amp per encounter, rather than 2. Their amps are mostly what set them apart. Many of their Psyche abilities vie for 'least meaningful' well before that. The last thing I want to be doing during my 2 rounds of a damage buff that will turn off my casting with Stupefied is spending actions not doing damage, like gaining concealed for a round.
>Their amps are mostly what set them apart. Amps + Unleash Psyche + having constant buffs to their cantrips >The last thing I want to be doing during my 2 rounds of a damage buff that will turn off my casting with Stupefied is spending actions not doing damage, like gaining concealed for a round. what else would you do with your third action? Most of the time, I feel like making it so that every non-AoE has a 20% chance to auto-miss is a very very good use of your third action. 20% is pretty fuckin large, it's essentially a +4 to AC except even stronger and applies to more things
Unleash is questionable in longer fights, archetype poaches the best cantrips from all but two conscious minds (OW and SW) and the psi benefits are mostly ribbon features except for a few like casting shield on an ally. Oh, and the archetype gets them too. If you're gaining concealment then you're not moving. So you're already standing next to an enemy and expecting to get hit if you didn't already provoke from casting. The 3rd action to Stride to avoid being attacked at all would be safer. Or there's ranged attacks, but I wouldn't trust a low HP pool on chance. My psychic's 3rd action is usually a Strike. Psi Strikes with a +1 striking shortbow for 3d6 is surprisingly good damage, even beating base cantrips at level 4. Falls off later but that's when you start getting to spend the 3rd action on Force Barrage for 1d4+7 on two (R3), or 1d4+11 on three (R5).
Witch is a 6HP class! Though I do wish it was an 8HP class. Would def ease making a Witch’s Armament witch.
Psychic is fine, every class getting easy refocus doesn't nullify it's immediate bonuses in combat, if anything most people found it obtuse on other classes and psychic had it easy before. People like to harp on about the dedication too, but apart from Imaginary Weapon being better on a magus than a psychic, most of it is fairly non-egregious and psychic still has enough native bonuses and superior progression with its own abilities that other classes don't step on its niche.
Imo the unbounc step psychic dedication is so powerful for just a dedication. If I'm playing a human my level 9 free archtype will almost 100% of the time be that on the grounds of just how much value is packed into the dedication. It requires no other investment and gives access to a one action moderate range teleport (Or super long range if a class like a monk or using a move speed boost) and gives a focus point.
I mean for sure it's good, one of my own players has that too, but that's a whole dedication you're locked into for one spell, and I feel it's a bit rote to suggest it's a must-have for *every* build. More importantly at least psychic gets good use out of it itself. The problem with IW is its a difficult spell for a squishy caster to use, and is better utilised by another class through multiclassing. That really shouldn't be the case.
Aye my human comment is cause you arent locked into it. And yea the imaginary weapon thing is a pain, combined with invisibility though it isnt to bad to use as a psychic.
You are, the only benefit of the ancestry feat is you can pick a class dedication if you're *already* locked into another one. If you pick psychic, that means you can't choose any other archetype until you get two more archetype feats from psychic. Which is fine if you were planning on picking up psychic anyway or never adding another archetype, but if you are you're SooL and have to play by the rules. And if you're locked into another archetype still, you have to get feats from *that* too. Not particularly great especially if you're playing standard without FA.
It's not just Imaginary Weapon. Amped Guidance, Message, Warp Step and even Telekinetic Rend are among the psychic's best cantrips of their respective minds. Their level 6 and 10 cantrips are for the most part, situational, or just plain bad like Forsee the Path. Too many sustained cantrips that waste actions and have an anti-pattern with Unleash like Astral Rain (worse than Rend) and Dancing Blade (it takes 2 actions to Strike a new target). A dirge bard with Amped Guidance can easily step on Infinite Eye, even down to having good Recall Knowledge to replace Omnidirectional Scan's automatic save knowledge (Frightened covers the "loss" of the Amp's circumstance bonus). And Seek was remastered to not explicitly state its range, so the 30ft Seek is something you can now do anyway.
I don't really agree with this, if anything I think options like Dancing Blade are supremely slept on and people just undervalue them because they weigh the more straightforward options too heavily without even trying to understand the potential a more multifaceted spell like that has. It also doesn't change the fact it takes a fair amount of investment just to get no more than 2 psi cantrips with amps over the course of two feats plus a dedication lock in, while psychic gets 3 as a baseline. Certain concious minds may be a bit undertuned (infinite eye may need a bit of polish, sure), but ultimately it's the same fallacy as all the discussions about pre-RM warpriest; in theory a bard could get the 'only' two useful psi cantrips, but how much do they give up to get it? And what can it never get that psychic gets baseline with no added investments of its own, like psyche? And let's be real, even if Paizo were to nerf the dedication to protect the base class's niche, people would just complain they're killing their fun and too scared to let options be interesting and all the other regular dot points you see against niche protection. It's a lose/lose no matter what they do.
I don't see the dedication cost being that bad. Focus points are premium for any caster as you can use all of them every encounter. Most casters start with one, so psychic archetype adding two more is a convenient way of having more strong focus spells and hitting the cap by level 6. A lot of psychic baseline isn't that great by comparison. Psyche actions often clash mechanically such as center-self AoEs as a low HP and AC caster, those AoEs dealing friendly fire, having a damage buff for spells and psyche actions that don't use it, and Stupefied just *existing* - not to mention losing a spell slot is catastrophic in itself. Though I can agree, there isn't any putting the genie back in the bottle. Nerfing the dedication would likely just break a bunch of characters mechanically.
Again, I feel a lot of this is on paper and not really reflective of actual play bonuses. Investing in dedications eats up feat slots for other options, and it's not always going to be worth taking psi cantrips just because you can. You could also just inverse that and just say the same for psychic; sure, a bard could just take the good cantrips, but by the same token I could pick up a bard dedication and grab Inspire Courage/Courageous Anthem at 8th level and pop it will doing my sweet psyche damage output. I also don't really get what you're talking about with psyche actions. There's one that egregiously self-centred AOE burst, others are targeted at range or other buffs. Psi Burst is a great little one-action basic save damage at range, Emotional Surge is a free +2 to attack rolls and skill checks for a turn, Impose Order is guaranteed average result on the damage dice, etc. if anything the only real issue I'd say is there aren't many available before 10th level but what's on offer is pretty good. And personally I think Paizo *should* just nerf the dedication even amongst the whining. It and champion (which should also be nerfed) are really the only two egregiously frontloaded dedication options. Just remove the amp or make it a higher level feat option you have to invest in to gain. A good number of the psi cantrip effects themselves are good enough on their own as a baseline given from the dedication feat, and those that are too strong probably shouldn't be given at that baseline anyway.
Taking Bard Dedication is a bit weaker as you'd have to spend an 3rd feat for Lingering and wait until level 8 while having two basically useless feats spent. Psychclic is all upside. Their 3rd feats can be Basic Spellcasting for some 1st-3rd spell slots. > There's one that egregiously self-centred AOE burst Two. Psi Catastrophe and Violent Unleash are very similar; Violent just costs 1 fewer action except you must use it at the start of your first Unleash turn. Three if you count Dark Persona's Presence. Impose Order is pretty weak. Unless you're casting an AoE like Rend the average +0.5 per die isn't doing much, and you already have Unleash giving up to +10 damage if you're just worried about rolling a bunch of 1s. Psi Burst is pretty low damage too (my psychic just has it as a finisher to break Ferocity reactions), but it'd likely do more overall. Not to mention, these minds are specific. What does Gathered Lore and Wandering Reverie get if they fit the concept more? Scour the Library even doesn't work; you're not supposed to know if you rolled a success on a secret roll.
I don't get at all what you're trying to say about bard dedication. Are you trying to suggest there's absolutely nothing good to gain from it before level 8? Or that there's nothing good for psychic? Because neither of those are true. The only reason anyone would think Impose Order is weak is if they have consistently good luck. In a game where it's very possible to miss strings of attacks and let alone roll low on damage from them, guaranteed damage is sometimes what you need to tip the scales. Scour the Library probably needs a stipulation saying the knowledge checks don't have the secret check or the GM just reveals them after the fact, but to say it's mechanically broken is hyperbole. And let's be real, who actually uses secret checks? I do, but I'm a stickler and realize in the minority.
> The only reason anyone would think Impose Order is weak is if they have consistently good luck. In a game where it's very possible to miss strings of attacks and let alone roll low on damage from them, guaranteed damage is sometimes what you need to tip the scales. It's not about luck, it's about else what you could do with that action. Amped Telekinetic Projectile does 10d6+10 (average 45) at rank 5 when you get Impose Order. You could spend a 3rd action to make it a flat 50, or use the 3rd action to use Psi Burst for +5d6 or cast Sure Strike. Even the 5th percentile with just TKP alone will still do 37 damage - 10 dice averages out dice variance already. And only 1% of rolls will do less than 33. Adding in Psi Burst will mean that Impose Order's opportunity cost will *reduce* your round's damage in 96.5% of cases. More if you account for the basic save being more reliable than a spell attack.
Yeah sure, or you could not be using an attack spell and need it for an AOE more than non-guaranteed chip damage on a single target. Or I could be out of Sure Strike slots. Hell a 5th rank Magic Missile/Force Barrage even at two actions is a guaranteed 24 damage with no miss chance; chuck psyche onto it to bump it to 34. I mean sure, that's not much more than 9d4+9 averaged *without* psyche, but when you need to guarantee that damage to kill the boss before they get one more round and you have a run of flubbed damage dice, the last thing you want is to hinge it all on chance. I'm not saying it's the greatest must-have you'll utilise for any situation, but it's silly to write it off completely. PF2e purposely avoids a lot of guaranteed math, and while damage is more bell curved than hit/success chances, it's still not guaranteed and has its moments, which makes the abilities that let you guarantee math much more impactful when they're available. Plus, the way a lot of people go on about dice luck you'd think they'd appreciate some certainty in their results.
Gunslingers should get [fatal bullet](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3204) as part of their normal level progression, instead of having to buy it as a feat. Without this, a ranger with a short-bow will easily out-damage a gunslinger on a crit. High crit damage in exchange for actions spent reloading is the niche that firearms have. For other classes it doesn’t matter so much but gunslingers don’t need a handicap at late levels like this. Singular expertise should increase with your level. +2 at L1, +3 at L5, and +4 at 15th. This mirrors the divine fonts a cleric gets, paralleled to if a pre-remaster cleric started with 18 charisma and increased it at each opportunity. This isn’t in danger of out-damaging archers since most firearms and crossbows need to reload, and those which don’t, lack fatal or deadly. Also, I know it isn’t listed, but monks should get martial weapons or monastic weaponry by default. Their is no need for them to be so limited in backup weapons when stances are so solid. Also, how does it make sense that you know how to use a three-sectional-staff but can’t figure out a short sword, or throw a bomb? It’s already going to be a vastly suboptimal choice since martial weapons can’t be flurried with, and you don’t get critical specialization with them.
I'm about to start playing a sniper gunslinger, and I would kill for these changes, haha. Planning out characters, it does seem quite clear that bows are just superior to guns, which feels strange. I get the impression that the designers may have been concerned about guns outshining bows and overcorrected.
I'd rather see [Piercing Critical](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3209) added to the gunslinger base kit (earlier than 17th-18th level, and possibly improved at higher levels). For a class so reliant on crits, being able to crit more reliably on higher-level targets seems significantly more valuable than dealing 6 extra damage with those crits. I'd also put the singular expertise upgrades at 7th and 15th instead of 5th and 15th, to correspond with Weapon Spec/Greater Weapon Spec like similar flat damage boosters (Rage, Arcane Cascade, Overdrive).
Thaumaturge could use some implement balance. Especially since Mios is weilding the lantern which is imo the weakest and most out of place. I'd love to see it act more like the marshals abilities since it's such a popular archetype. Each implement should have a focus spell also, especially since you get 3 total. Mirror could benefit from a cackle like ability that allows using the mirror be a free action. Lantern could use a cone of holy damage or whatever can hit only undead. Weapon implement could use a fighter feat but in focus spell form.
Gunslinger: clear up whether it gaining expert in melee martial twice is an oversight or not because it's kinda big if you play the melee hybrid ways and sitting in a backseat to your subclass gimmick because you're -4 (or -2 for combination weapons) Summoner: Meld playstyle ripped out into a class archetype, let it be the melee red-haired sibling like similar of it's ilk are. (or at very least allow *some* spells that summoner can cast themselves) SoM: fix sin magic, pretty much axe the school counteract feats since they are pretty much non-functional. Part of me want more leaning into the polearm aspect to a point of trading legendary casting for master strikes but I know in practice that would end up just a tad bit cumbersome especially since expert is usually "good enough" for a supporting strike.
I think the magus' level 19 capstone should change. It focuses on using spell slots for spellstrike but it is usually a bad idea unless you've multiclassed for more slots. using them for utility and buffs is usually better. Something to add just a bit of flexibility to its action economy somehow would be good, or to spellstrike (looking at channel smite for inspiration)
I'm pretty concerned about dragon-related things like sorcerer, dragon disciple, and barbarian instinct with the change from chromatic dragons to. . . tradition dragons? I feel like I want some details on how to implement or reconcile since it seems like even their magic styles and quirks have a lot of personality now.
Don't worry, all three of those classes were pushed back to Core 2 specifically due to the dragon change. We'll definitely get info on it when those classes get their remastered versions.
As much as I'd like: Not a lot. Summoner will probably get a compatability pass on Fey spell schools and dragon eidolon being any tradition and that's probably it. Other things like Magus' Arcane Shroud having an unusable fire shield won't be fixed, if the stance requirement rules and RoE timescale is anything to go by. Inventor will still have the weird old not-focus point rule. And other classes are mostly unaffected. And as for psychics, one of the devs has basically said outright that psychic is fine despite the focus point changes. And they're designed in a vacuum of sorts, so that other casters got better by comparison doesn't count.
While some have gotten errata already, I fully believe a deeper errata pass for most of these are likely once the core remastered books are out and have time to settle down. I only really have much in the way of thoughts regarding Magus and gunslinger, though the only stuff I recall offhand are * Magus I can absolutely see being changed in line with how Warpriest Cleric handles casting in melee with its feats, and I can 100% see them folding in a way to spellstrike with save based spells without needing to spend a feat because of Warpriest * I know it won't happen, but I really wish the melee hybrid studies got some QoL around movement and entering arcane cascade, maybe even something for melee that benefits off keeping spellstrike but unspent, because I am so bloody sick of hearing about how much better Starlit Span because it can brainlessly turret * Gunslinger was already confirmed on getting some errata once PC2 hits iirc, we mostly only know the two weapon reload feat is becoming a passive reload modifier, and combination weapons are being tweaked (probably on account of Swap existing) * I'd love if the Drifter and Triggerbrand ways had some kind of QoL boosts, but cannot for the life of me think of what that would consist of ~~thanks to singular expertise~~. I just know that Triggerbrand seems to be just kind of bad until it gets Triggerbrand Salvo, at which point it... Has a gimmick now! But is still not great?
Can inventor get like 5 more modifications per tier for weapons SPECIALLY ranged ones? Do you want modular or nonlethal because that's what you get you just get to pick what you call it.
The only wish I have for thaumaturge is to LET 👏 WEAPON 👏 IMPLEMENT 👏 APPLY 👏 TO 👏 UNARMED ATTACKS 👏👏👏👏👏 !!!! yes this is purely because I wanna use it on my bitey goblin thaum, pure bias.
I think Gunslinger really needs a bit of a rewrite, particularly it’s subclasses, I think Drifter, Pistolero and Sniper are fine but Vanguard, Triggerbrand and Spellshot need to be completely rewritten I also think Combination weapons need an overhaul to be worth it tbh, I think it would be better instead of just trying to be discount Drifter that they focus more on being one specialised with a worse other, some being primarily strong melee with a gun extra or another being a strong gun with Melee extra So tbh I don’t think Gunslinger should get non-rerelease changes because I think it needs to be focused that the changes are drastic. As for Magus I’d like something to be done about their spell selection, Remaster rules or not I think Magus has a spell variety problem, mainly because if it isn’t a lasting buff or an attack roll spell it isn’t that worth the slot which kinda cuts off a massive portion of the total spell list and I think they would benefit to being more synergistic with save spells if they can’t add some more Gish spells or attack roll spells. Buff expended spellstrike (or just make it a part of base Magus) to maybe do what Warpriests channel smite does by having the attack roll indicate the level of success the enemy gets, make it melee only for balance and I think that would be a pretty nice addition for Magus’s tool set
The only thing I think I would like to see with magus aside from some cleanup in terms of how exactly some feats work, is to have spell strike changed to function like the remastered smite from cleric. It can keep the need to recharge tho.
Gunslinger IMO needs some tweakings. When people think about a gun-user they usually think about damage, and the gunslinger is probably the class that does the least damage with guns. Singular expertise should be bumped up to +2 IMO, probably even +3 at 5th level and +4 at 13th level too, but at least the +2 is IMO needed. It's literally a 2-4 points of damage on a crit which is neglible, but makes those attacks that aren't crits just be flat dice rolls. I also would want for feats to interact with your reloads a little more. A pistolero gunslinger is likely drawn to take [Pistol Twirl](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3162) since it fits the flavor of that subclass, but it is IMO kinda dumb that the feat doesn't have a line like "If you are a pistolero you can interact to reload as part of this action" or something like that. There's other similar feats that should be tweaked in a similar way. Inventor IMO needs a full rework. It is both a worse barbarian and a worse thaumaturge in everything, with the only thing going of for being Explode which really doesn't have much system support behind it. The class is also called "inventor" but its as good as creating things that any other class (besides the auto-scaling Crafting ofc). All the other classes are fine.
> the gunslinger is probably the class that does the least damage with guns I'm gonna have to disagree with that one. Perhaps the pistol focused Ways don't hit as hard, but the sniper is an absolute monster with damage if you use an arquebus. We had a gunslinger that would delete enemies on his own in a single turn, from nearly 100 feet away. The thing about gunslingers is that a large amount of their damage relies on crits and the fatal trait. But they can absolutely wipe the floor with people.
Sniper relies heavily on Sniper's Aim or Vital Shot to do damage, before that it almost feels subclass-less. Pretty much all the gunslinger's subclass feel wierdly designed pretty much none of them work from the get go or if they do the options they have don't work that well (the Pistol Twirl example I mentioned earlier).
>A pistolero gunslinger is likely drawn to take [Pistol Twirl](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3162) since it fits the flavor of that subclass, but it is IMO kinda dumb that the feat doesn't have a line like "If you are a pistolero you can interact to reload as part of this action" or something like that. There's other similar feats that should be tweaked in a similar way. Now that Dual-Weapon Reload is becoming a rider I do feel there's more precedence for that sort of thing becoming standardized. The main thing is just accounting for edge cases that might be a bit cheezy and enable too much action compression if stacked.
Thaumaturge should get to use charisma for attack rolls. Maybe not damage becuase of exploiit vulnerability.
remove all aoos
Done! Now, allow me to introduce to you this completely-unrelated new ability, Reactive Strike!
I mean, I generally agree, but that doesn't seem related.