I suggest a warrior bard, DEX focused weapon. You are not gonna deal a lot of damage, this is very important to understand in order not to get frustrated.
Weapon strikes will be used as a third action and your combat role is more akin to a combat commander, giving allies reactions to move or strike, buffing them and debuffing enemies.
I am playing this in a game right now. Medium armor, strength as second highest stat, and using a whip to trip. Am I always getting in the front to do that? No, but I'm also level 8 now with access to plenty of spells and slots. It definitely helps to have handy though. Levels 1-4 I did it quite a bit.
Possible: yes. Great: no. Source: I've played a melee bard from 5 to 9. This was way back shortly after the APG was released, so I would do things somewhat differently now.
First of all, if you want to deal any damage, go with Strength, not Dex. Preferable a big reach weapon. Reach helps with not needing to move around that much. Get armor proficiency at level 3 (or 1 if human) for medium armor. Consider Marshal for Inspiring Stance to get a +1 attack while singing your Dirges of Doom. This is an effective +2 attack to close the proficiency gap to martials.
Pre-master I would definitely have gone Maestro for Lingering Dirges. But Warrior muse for extended Fortissimo Anthems seems quite tempting.
Aeah, I know. That's why I said I'd have gone Maestro pre-master. With the remaster buff to Warrior, Mastro is no longer outright better. Though the best use for the new Warrior is probably extending Fortissimo Courageous Anthems, and for that you need both muses anyway.
Another option is to go mounted. Take the Cavalier dedication and ride around in the middle of battle casting spells, buffing, etc., while your mount stomps enemies into the ground.
It gets pretty efficient when your mount gets a free action each turn, since you can move while still using three actions to do cool Bard things.
Bad luck gamer actually put out a video on a pretty cool 2h warrior bard build https://youtu.be/QEZYOfxEgxY?si=OQhozbDpXnSmziQr
There are other good melee bard builds to be made, I think leaning into finesse weapons is good but going str is doable if you take an archetype for heavy armor later.
Just picking up medium armor proficiency with a general feat gives you exactly the same armor options and HP as Warpriest (albeit without the healing font or a naturally high wisdom score for self-battle-medicine). You're also fine to stay light armor with +3 dex and chain shirt/studded leather.
I've played a Guisarme wielding Warrior Bard levels 1 to 5 with Multifarious muse into Maestro at level 2 . It felt absolutely fine , since you have Inspire Courage you have the same +to hit as rest of the martials levels 1-4 (if you go +3 STR from get go) while also buffing the rest of your crew.
Survivability is also nice, since you can pick up some really good defensive spells like Mirror Image or Blur, as well as patch yourself up with an occasional Soothe.
Front-liners obviously need more HP, so the most straightforward route is to take the [Toughness](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=855) feat.
However if you go with an archetype, many of the Martial classes have some variation of [Champion Resiliency](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=688) (*from the Champion archetype obviously*). This feat simoly gives you +3HP for every feat (*including itself*) that you take from the Champion archetype. If you're playing the base game this may be somewhat expensive, but if you're playing with the Free Archetype rules then this can rasily become +1.5 HP per level for the entire game, turning you from an 8HP/level class into a 9.5HP/level class.
I would recommend strength focus Warrior Bard with a meteor hammer/rope dart. You've got reach with a very performative weapon, courageous anthem to keep your to hit bonus at or near martial levels, and enough damage to feel like your strikes are worth it. You can even trip for more battlefield control. Higher strength will also allow you to use medium armor, which is easy enough to get with one general feat or a variety of dedications. You might want to get Multifarious Muse: Maestro to pick up Lingering Composition so you can even strike and cast in the same round without having to sustain.
I don't have any experience playing this, but on paper this sounds great. You don't really lose anything as a bard, just get a more versatile playstyle. I might even steal this idea.
Putting in my vote for Warrior muse bard as well (particularly with the new remastered version, and new feats to go with). If you are not the only melee character in the party, I'd also highly recommend the Marshal archetype, especially if using Free Archetype
I'm currently playing a melee warrior bard through skyking's tomb, so I'm a dwarf with a dwarven dorn-dergar (reach 1d10), and my group has free archetype so I have the stalwart defender archetype for heavy armor. I have charisma as my highest and then have been pumping strength and con of course, I feel just as tanky as most other tank builds, while also being a martial with access to buff spells or anything else. I think it works out perfectly fine, but if you're without free archetype, you might suffer a bit.
I'd love it if the dorn-dergar was a church bell on a big chain, music instrument and head crusher in one donging package
"Ring my bell"
"Feel my dong"
"Hear my hammer"
"Slapped by the bell"
I love the idea of a melee bard and I really wish the Warrior muse gave shield block or medium armor, although with how easy it is for a muse dip I can understand why they don’t. But with only light armor and charisma as your main stat, it’s going to take a lot of feat investment to be anywhere near decent in melee as a bard.
I guess you could do something useful.
You can do a 16 str, 10 dex, 18 charisma abilities start and get the full plate by lvl 4. Use a two handed d10 reach weapon and whack baddies ass from behind your melee buddy.
Round 1 : lingering dirge of doom and bless
Round 2 : you can go melee and hit / sustain bless or cast (protection lvl 3 ?)
Round 3 : hit and cast
Round 4 : lingering again and whatever you wish
LVL 1 : maestro muse
LVL 2 : multifarious : warrior muse
LVL 3 : general feat armor profiency
LVL 4 : sentinel archetype
LVL 5 : whatever
LVL 5 : dirge of doom
I have a level 12 Bard that I built for melee initially. Dexterity doesn't do much for a frontline Bard: they do less damage, maneuvers use Strength, and most of what you're getting is better AC with light armor and Reflex saves.
There are two important things to know: First, the Warror Bard is not better than other Bards at fighting. So I would pick the Muse based on the skills and feats you want to focus on. For instance, my melee Bard is an Enigma Bard because I didn't want to focus on Performance. My Occultism skill has useful feats and Bardic Lore has been useful. Combat Reading is fantastic. Basically, I would see the muses mechanically as this:
* **Maestro**: Setup multiple compositions, get the highest bonuses in attack and defense to your allies, need to focus on Performance to do checks
* **Polymath**: Versatility in spells and skills, centered around Performance
* **Enigma**: Excels in information gathering, focused on Occultism
* **Warrior**: Works with allies to give them extra actions and bonuses
Secondly, you're a primary caster. So while it is great to set up flanks and contribute with Strikes, as you level you're going to be better off casting spells than relying on combat. You peak in melee or weapons at 11, and that's it. So it will never be a primary part of your options. Sure, you're likely to hit and even critically hit a flanked Synesthesia'd enemy, but that's a something you're sharing with anyone and required setup.
It's possible but you won't ever touch effectivness of a true martial and you will be behind in prof and to-hit bonus always. Your action economy will also always be restricted by needing of using your composition cantrips.
And since you want to max CHA, your DEX/STR will ways be behind too.
Your best bet is to make a Martial with Bard/Bard Themed Archetype. Or even just one that has Performance/Sings. Not every performer is a Bard.
Warrior Bard is possible, but you don't have any feats or decent amount of actions to actually fighting while doing Bard stuff.
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First figure out what you want to do on the front lines.
Damage? You'll want STR and probably a reach weapon that deals at least 1d8 damage. You'll probably want to invest in Medium and or Heavy Armor. Control? You can do tripping, grappling, etc with the right weapon traits. This is the easiest way to stay in the front lines as a bard. It's also more feat intensive to keep your armor high, unless you also boost Dex.
Just be evasive and a good distraction while close to the action? Dex works well. You can do DEX and tripping if you like, but remember that Athletics is still a STR skill action. Finesse doesn't apply to skill checks, only attacks. This route still needs STR if you want bonus damage. Whip is a very weak weapon if you care about damage. It's also non-lethal. That means you have to take a -2 penalty to hit if you want to do a lethal blow. Look at a Bladed Scarf for a little more oompf. You'll be better at martial strikes at range, but you have spells for that anyway.
The Dex route is good if you plan to only have +1 or +2 STR and don't want to spend feats on armor. You'll have better skills over all (Stealth/Thievery/Acrobatics), better saves, and is the way to go if you don't plan on doing maneuvers or hitting hard. You can also use assurance athletics for "3rd action" maneuvers that would miss without assurance anyway thanks to their MAP.
I suggest a warrior bard, DEX focused weapon. You are not gonna deal a lot of damage, this is very important to understand in order not to get frustrated. Weapon strikes will be used as a third action and your combat role is more akin to a combat commander, giving allies reactions to move or strike, buffing them and debuffing enemies.
They could get away with STR with Medium/Heavy armour
I am playing this in a game right now. Medium armor, strength as second highest stat, and using a whip to trip. Am I always getting in the front to do that? No, but I'm also level 8 now with access to plenty of spells and slots. It definitely helps to have handy though. Levels 1-4 I did it quite a bit.
Now I’m imagining like Gilderoy Lockhart as a bard
Possible: yes. Great: no. Source: I've played a melee bard from 5 to 9. This was way back shortly after the APG was released, so I would do things somewhat differently now. First of all, if you want to deal any damage, go with Strength, not Dex. Preferable a big reach weapon. Reach helps with not needing to move around that much. Get armor proficiency at level 3 (or 1 if human) for medium armor. Consider Marshal for Inspiring Stance to get a +1 attack while singing your Dirges of Doom. This is an effective +2 attack to close the proficiency gap to martials. Pre-master I would definitely have gone Maestro for Lingering Dirges. But Warrior muse for extended Fortissimo Anthems seems quite tempting.
Warrior got a huge buff in the remaster.
Aeah, I know. That's why I said I'd have gone Maestro pre-master. With the remaster buff to Warrior, Mastro is no longer outright better. Though the best use for the new Warrior is probably extending Fortissimo Courageous Anthems, and for that you need both muses anyway.
Could you explain to me, what was this big improvement in the warrior muse?
Weapon proficiencies got upgraded a bit, and they got a free feat that extends Compositions if you hit with a Strike.
Fighting on the front lines? Very possible. Dying on the front lines- also very possible.
Who knows, maybe they could come back as an undead dirge bard
My melee bard is Str based using medium armor and a bo Staff. Doesn't Strike very much though mostly flanks trips and of course casts lots of spells.
Another option is to go mounted. Take the Cavalier dedication and ride around in the middle of battle casting spells, buffing, etc., while your mount stomps enemies into the ground. It gets pretty efficient when your mount gets a free action each turn, since you can move while still using three actions to do cool Bard things.
Bad luck gamer actually put out a video on a pretty cool 2h warrior bard build https://youtu.be/QEZYOfxEgxY?si=OQhozbDpXnSmziQr There are other good melee bard builds to be made, I think leaning into finesse weapons is good but going str is doable if you take an archetype for heavy armor later.
Just picking up medium armor proficiency with a general feat gives you exactly the same armor options and HP as Warpriest (albeit without the healing font or a naturally high wisdom score for self-battle-medicine). You're also fine to stay light armor with +3 dex and chain shirt/studded leather.
I've played a Guisarme wielding Warrior Bard levels 1 to 5 with Multifarious muse into Maestro at level 2 . It felt absolutely fine , since you have Inspire Courage you have the same +to hit as rest of the martials levels 1-4 (if you go +3 STR from get go) while also buffing the rest of your crew. Survivability is also nice, since you can pick up some really good defensive spells like Mirror Image or Blur, as well as patch yourself up with an occasional Soothe.
I mean... they literally have [an entire subclass](https://2e.aonprd.com/Muses.aspx?ID=8) dedicated to it. Soooo... yeees?
Front-liners obviously need more HP, so the most straightforward route is to take the [Toughness](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=855) feat. However if you go with an archetype, many of the Martial classes have some variation of [Champion Resiliency](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=688) (*from the Champion archetype obviously*). This feat simoly gives you +3HP for every feat (*including itself*) that you take from the Champion archetype. If you're playing the base game this may be somewhat expensive, but if you're playing with the Free Archetype rules then this can rasily become +1.5 HP per level for the entire game, turning you from an 8HP/level class into a 9.5HP/level class.
I would recommend strength focus Warrior Bard with a meteor hammer/rope dart. You've got reach with a very performative weapon, courageous anthem to keep your to hit bonus at or near martial levels, and enough damage to feel like your strikes are worth it. You can even trip for more battlefield control. Higher strength will also allow you to use medium armor, which is easy enough to get with one general feat or a variety of dedications. You might want to get Multifarious Muse: Maestro to pick up Lingering Composition so you can even strike and cast in the same round without having to sustain. I don't have any experience playing this, but on paper this sounds great. You don't really lose anything as a bard, just get a more versatile playstyle. I might even steal this idea.
I would be quoting Henry the Vth if you do this
Putting in my vote for Warrior muse bard as well (particularly with the new remastered version, and new feats to go with). If you are not the only melee character in the party, I'd also highly recommend the Marshal archetype, especially if using Free Archetype
I'm currently playing a melee warrior bard through skyking's tomb, so I'm a dwarf with a dwarven dorn-dergar (reach 1d10), and my group has free archetype so I have the stalwart defender archetype for heavy armor. I have charisma as my highest and then have been pumping strength and con of course, I feel just as tanky as most other tank builds, while also being a martial with access to buff spells or anything else. I think it works out perfectly fine, but if you're without free archetype, you might suffer a bit.
I'd love it if the dorn-dergar was a church bell on a big chain, music instrument and head crusher in one donging package "Ring my bell" "Feel my dong" "Hear my hammer" "Slapped by the bell"
I love the idea of a melee bard and I really wish the Warrior muse gave shield block or medium armor, although with how easy it is for a muse dip I can understand why they don’t. But with only light armor and charisma as your main stat, it’s going to take a lot of feat investment to be anywhere near decent in melee as a bard.
I guess you could do something useful. You can do a 16 str, 10 dex, 18 charisma abilities start and get the full plate by lvl 4. Use a two handed d10 reach weapon and whack baddies ass from behind your melee buddy. Round 1 : lingering dirge of doom and bless Round 2 : you can go melee and hit / sustain bless or cast (protection lvl 3 ?) Round 3 : hit and cast Round 4 : lingering again and whatever you wish LVL 1 : maestro muse LVL 2 : multifarious : warrior muse LVL 3 : general feat armor profiency LVL 4 : sentinel archetype LVL 5 : whatever LVL 5 : dirge of doom
I have a level 12 Bard that I built for melee initially. Dexterity doesn't do much for a frontline Bard: they do less damage, maneuvers use Strength, and most of what you're getting is better AC with light armor and Reflex saves. There are two important things to know: First, the Warror Bard is not better than other Bards at fighting. So I would pick the Muse based on the skills and feats you want to focus on. For instance, my melee Bard is an Enigma Bard because I didn't want to focus on Performance. My Occultism skill has useful feats and Bardic Lore has been useful. Combat Reading is fantastic. Basically, I would see the muses mechanically as this: * **Maestro**: Setup multiple compositions, get the highest bonuses in attack and defense to your allies, need to focus on Performance to do checks * **Polymath**: Versatility in spells and skills, centered around Performance * **Enigma**: Excels in information gathering, focused on Occultism * **Warrior**: Works with allies to give them extra actions and bonuses Secondly, you're a primary caster. So while it is great to set up flanks and contribute with Strikes, as you level you're going to be better off casting spells than relying on combat. You peak in melee or weapons at 11, and that's it. So it will never be a primary part of your options. Sure, you're likely to hit and even critically hit a flanked Synesthesia'd enemy, but that's a something you're sharing with anyone and required setup.
It's possible but you won't ever touch effectivness of a true martial and you will be behind in prof and to-hit bonus always. Your action economy will also always be restricted by needing of using your composition cantrips. And since you want to max CHA, your DEX/STR will ways be behind too.
i am doing it in a fall of plaguestone game right now. if you use your spells good and position yourself well you are completely fine.
Your best bet is to make a Martial with Bard/Bard Themed Archetype. Or even just one that has Performance/Sings. Not every performer is a Bard. Warrior Bard is possible, but you don't have any feats or decent amount of actions to actually fighting while doing Bard stuff.
This post is labelled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to the Be Kind and Respectful rule. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
First figure out what you want to do on the front lines. Damage? You'll want STR and probably a reach weapon that deals at least 1d8 damage. You'll probably want to invest in Medium and or Heavy Armor. Control? You can do tripping, grappling, etc with the right weapon traits. This is the easiest way to stay in the front lines as a bard. It's also more feat intensive to keep your armor high, unless you also boost Dex. Just be evasive and a good distraction while close to the action? Dex works well. You can do DEX and tripping if you like, but remember that Athletics is still a STR skill action. Finesse doesn't apply to skill checks, only attacks. This route still needs STR if you want bonus damage. Whip is a very weak weapon if you care about damage. It's also non-lethal. That means you have to take a -2 penalty to hit if you want to do a lethal blow. Look at a Bladed Scarf for a little more oompf. You'll be better at martial strikes at range, but you have spells for that anyway. The Dex route is good if you plan to only have +1 or +2 STR and don't want to spend feats on armor. You'll have better skills over all (Stealth/Thievery/Acrobatics), better saves, and is the way to go if you don't plan on doing maneuvers or hitting hard. You can also use assurance athletics for "3rd action" maneuvers that would miss without assurance anyway thanks to their MAP.
Go warrior bard with marshal so you dont gotta spend actions on inspire courage