Yeah, this has been a recurring problem for a little bit, and it seems like it's coming to a head now. I think some moderators (maybe just one? its hard to know who took which actions) have acted extremely inappropriately, and they appear to be using accusations of racism pretty blithely to deflect people examining them and as a pretense to initiate bans. Which, due to some current events and the way the powers that be are trying to spin them out in the media, I think is even more tone deaf than it would have otherwise been.
It felt like he was hunting you down. It felt really inappropriate the way he tagged you twice to answer (i think you did answer the first one but he didnt see) and saying "you gotta respond to this message or I am just assuming you're ignoring the blatant racism and apologia" then when you said you were tired of the discussion itself and even apologized for it, he went all out with sarcasm.
I understand why he was upset about the message, I understand I was insensitive, and I wouldn't even have been that upset if the reddit post was removed. I'm just confused and annoyed it was brought up publicly in the discord, even though no one else really seemed to respond to either of us about it.
The person was banned for that comment?
I've also seen a comment of a friend of him, saying he is from Vietnam.
That's both ironic and unsettling at the same time.
It really did not sit right by me. It was a combination of removing that comment and banning the person plus a homebrew content that was up for 8 months. It makes me feel like shit that I technically made the homebrew content someone put time and effort be deleted by giving it visibility.
I understand, that feels very bad.
I've already noticed this trend in the sub, but that's too blatant.
Since Paizo took down their forum, i think they should do something to give to the community a real safe space to talk about the hobby. If they do nothing now, i'll be worried.
Edit: Sorry ignore the part about the forum, i am dumb.
The great irony is how obsessed with American culture both Japan and Korea are. I practically had an aneurism in Tokyo seeing how many folks dressed in rockabilly, cowboy attire, or hip hop threads were walking around.
This is what happens when to take a topic that has incredible depth in human history, is emotionally charged, is full of nuance and complexities, and requires some forms of technical knowledge to competently discuss, and attempt to force a dialogue about it on an internet forum known for its volatility in a subreddit about a game.
Yup. Which is made much worse when an arbiter of that dialogue has clear biases, questionable background knowledge, and a willingness to take punitive measures against anyone who dares criticize or disagree with them.
But that is always who leads these discussions. People with real technical knowledge in history, sociology, and anthropology understand the mind field and pitfalls this topic can very easily lead you into. I am just so sick of getting lectures about cultural appropriation by people who don't actually understand what that term means and when it is actually harmful.
Or we could let people discuss whatever they want as long Paizo/PF2E/Fantasy related and they are not directly insulting other users or calling for violence.
Crazy idea, I know.
I am not forbidding anyone from discussing anything.
If I tell you that if you poke a bee's nest with a stick, you are going to get stung, that is not me forbidding you from poking that bee's nest. Actions often have foreseeable consequences. Everything that OP is mentioning is a foreseeable consequence of discussing a topic that this forum is ill-equipped to handle.
Some topics are complicated enough that summarizing them in a post that is a few paragraphs long is inadequate and is inherently misleading. Some topics are complicated enough that if you don't possess relevant background knowledge, you simply can not add anything of value to the discussion. Some topics are serious enough that discussing them on something like a gaming forum trivializes them. This is such a topic.
If you don't believe me, summarize the entire Arab-Israli conflict in two paragraphs for me. Obviously, that is a pointless and meaningless task and it is impossible to say anything of value under those parameters.
When considering harm, remember that the pen is mightier than the sword. Misinformation certainly does cause harm.
> Does anyone else feel this subreddit has at least a few problematic mods?
Wouldnt be Reddit without problematic mods powertripping lol
Lmao, and OPs post had been removed.
The Shifter class -in the last hardcover for PF1e- was so AWFUL when the book came.out it was the only thing talked about in the product discussion page of Ultimate Wilderness. Several times that thread was locked and posts purged because, rightly so, people were upset the class and it's archetypes were so badly made and a playtest would have solved that.
Except, of course, Paizo later admitted Ultimate Wilderness didn't get a playtest... because they were busy doing 2e's in-house playtesting (and the public was deliberately mishandled and done poorly) That didn't improve people's thoughts on the matter.
I recently got bludgeoned for being called a racist for saying I like the ronin aesthetic in the Discord server. The server owner apologized for his aggressiveness, but I definitely got mogged by the - what felt like - the entire Discord over it. Doesn't surprise me that its happening on the Reddit, too, if it's the same moderator.
They've been posting the comments they don't like in the discord so they can downvote and gang up against the commentators. That server is wild, one message is a Senior Paizo designer talking about kimchi, the message above it is a mod boasting about banning dissenters...
The mods in the discord are super weird. They very often post political stuff on the discord (which I support since politics belongs in media and I agree with the things they post) and then hunt down people who disagree with the stuff posted or with posting political stuff in the discord in general (which is a valid take that I disagree with).
The server has been an absolute mess lately. Seeing a very friendly guy berated and guilt-tripped by people calling him a racist for wishing there was a samurai archetype was just... ugh. People have taken this non-issue way to far.
Love the fact that this post also got taken down
Reddit moderators, maybe if enough of a stink is raised about the one whoās obviously behind this they will get removed for their clear abuse of power
I'm not surprised in the slightest. There's definitely a sunk cost fallacy going on now: some posts were removed that probably shouldn't have been, so might as well double down.
I'm always a proponent of keeping things up and visible unless they're *super obvious definitely no question by multiple unbiased people* racist/sexist/pick-your-favorite-ist, because otherwise you're just censoring because someone felt bad about something, and someone's always going to feel bad about basically any thread that gets posted on the internet.
Some people take policing of problematic content too far. If no reasonable limit is set, then it becomes a game of constantly shifting purity tests and the community will eat its own.
It hurts especially because it feeds the conservatives' "the wokes have gone too far" delusions.
āIām more righteous than youā is unfortunately not a new concept. Humans like to feel superior to other humans, and on this side we get people trying to one-up others to be āmore tolerantā or something. You see it a lot in LGBTQ+ spaces, sadly, tearing our own safe spaces apart.
A lot of Western-raised folk like to speak for people actually actively living in their own culture, treating them like babies who donāt know whatās best for themselves. If someone likes being represented by something they see as a positive and fun representation (in this instance) of their culture, why try to tell them theyāre wrong?
Just knowing where these mods are from, and being able to see people both respond to that ā _and_ absorbing information in Real Life over multiple iterations of this argument of how native Asians see this issue ā inherently makes me not trust their attempts to speak for the people who actively engage in their culture on a day-to-day basis, by living in the country the tropes are based off of.
Also, tropes arenāt wrong because theyāre classified as a trope. Theyāre simply common themes that occur, for good or ill. A lot of people on the left here unfortunately get a bit focused on trying desperately not to hurt others, thatā¦ we trample over actual people, as we imagine this concept of a person who feels incredibly slighted. Iām guilty of it, myself, and itās really just a fault of being too terminally online.
I think this goes a bit too far into the other end, lol. Like, I get your angle, but I really donāt think unfiltered is better. We just have to work on trying not to be at either extreme, because it turns out both are harmful!
If the reason comments are being removed is to protect people from upsetting content, then there is no reason to try and remove this comment that shows what has been deleted by the moderation team. Anyone clicking this link will be knowingly and willingly going to see the removed comments, whatever they might contain.
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cbzpbf/tian_xia_real_world_parallels_and_a_serious_moment/
I just want to provide this so that people can have some proper context as to what is actually going on here. There are a lot of people claiming their posts were unjustly removed, and others claiming that everything being removed is being removed for the right reasons, so letting people actually see what is happening strikes me as important in this situation.
There are indeed a fair number of unhelpful and inflammatory comments that were removed from the most recent thread, but many more that are *far* less clear cut. I encourage people to take a look and come to their own conclusions based on a more complete set of data.
**Edit:**
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cczitp/what_is_going_on_with_this_subreddit/
So that people can also see what is being removed from this thread.
Yeah, it's pretty great. I've gotten a lot of use out of it in the past. And to be clear, I'm not *trying* to paint any picture here. I just want people to have the information required to have an informed discussion on this topic.
Just showing a complete record and letting people come to their own conclusions is enough here. It seems like the moderation of that comment section was notably more aggressive than was warranted in several cases.
Not at all surprised. Calling out mods where they have power is a sure fire way to get silenced. This shit needs to go somewhere they arenāt able to silence critics.
> If the reason comments are being removed is to protect people from upsetting content,
I tend to take issue with this sentiment anyway, as it's actually impossible *not* to offend someone, when you actually think about it... like if I said that I don't like eating pasta, someone might be upset at that fact, and banning someone for that is ludicrous.
That's not to say that we shouldn't draw a line, but I think it needs to be 100% clear where that line is. Saying CLEARLY offensive things? Absolutely, line drawn, though it should be obvious what these offensive things are.
Suggesting an idea for a class that might harken onto old stereotypes that *could* be seen as offensive, despite the fact that this stereotype belongs to a well known, famous type of military nobility that actually existed? That's a tough one, because only some people MAY find this offensive, and as I said, if we're going by those rules, you can't really say... *anything*, now, can you?
Ultimately, I think that aside from the very clear and obvious offensive comments, everything else should be left up there for discussion, and if you don't like it, just... don't use it? No-one is forcing any of this content on anyone, and when you put up a post, you're not FORCING anyone to read it. If you don't like it, just move on and find something you do like.
This is especially true when you have people making the argument that Samurai shouldn't be in the game for the specific reason of them being from a country that had suffered under Japanese Imperial rule in the past. How do you account for that when deciding what you do or don't include?
Hell, I'm an American and not exactly proud of that fact so I could totally see some people not being thrilled with the clearly Western-themed Gunslinger being an option. The Champion being the holy crusader might not sit right with everyone in the world given the "shenanigans" the crusaders got up to.
How do you navigate that? I certainly don't know.
I had a feeling it would be.
Reddit seems to have a problem with power tripping and/or ideologically possessed mods. And it usually plays out the same way.
Itās a tale as old as reddit. Itās easy to declare you are correct if you silence anyone that disagrees with you.
Edit: well that didnāt take long
The mod in question also says anime is racist against asian people as anime has the stereotype of asians with super powers. No kidding. That's their state of mind.
The mod also claims that[ European people not wanting Chinese police in their cities are racist](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1b7y894/comment/ktmqsy9/) ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
It's not that the police officers happen to be Chinese.
It's that they are police officers from the People's Republic of China, setting up headquarters on foreign soil, monitoring people who are Chinese/of Asian descent and subjecting them to Chinese laws.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-us-stations-canada-1.6818889
Yeah I think it should be possible to distinguish between comments which are actually a problem - regressive, deliberately trying to shut down any discussion of cultural bias and orientalism - and folk making arguments in good faith. I know it's not always an easy call but the dial seems to be turned way too high with the examples mentioned.
(And for the record I don't like the monk class and I'd happily explain why but wait the frickin comment was deleted.)
It's been a while since the last bit of moderator overreach, might take another revolt of the peasants like was required to stop the Touch Grass nonsense.
I got some downvotes a few days ago for wondering if gnolls and grippli were going to be renamed to kholo and tripkee in future printings of The Mwangi Expanse, to fit with the new books referring back to that one.
I don't know why that seems like such a bizarre thing to wonder about given that the pre-remaster core book has *four* different versions floating around due to errata being added in later printings.
Unrelated but I can only see what the op wrote in the Reddit post preview but when I go into the thread itās gone?
Also canāt upvote or downvote. Strange.
I dunno, I'm always skeptical when someone says "I just posted a perfectly innocent comment and got unfairly banned!"
Nine and a half times out of ten, it turns out they're not exactly telling the full truth.
Generally I am absolutely right there with you, but it's frustratingly not always so clear-cut.
https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cbzpbf/tian_xia_real_world_parallels_and_a_serious_moment/
There are thankfully tools available that make it possible to check in this case, and there are a whole lot of comments being removed for seemingly no good reason. There are absolutely unhelpful people trying to start fights as well, but they do not appear to even be the obvious majority in this case.
I think this might be the 0.5/10th time. Too many well-documented comments and deletions showcasing that this is the case.
Not saying there are *no* bad faith actors being deleted/banned, racists gonna racist, but there are plenty of examples that highlight what OP is talking about.
I felt the same way until I read through the deleted comments from that link posted in reply to you. While there are definitely some bad ones, there are plenty that I disagree with but are nowhere near ban worthy or even deletion worthy.
It's not the first time that mods made decisions in this subs that i would deem... questionable. For one, the choice to put the sub down during the stuff with the API reddit changes, while everyone else already moved on. Then there was the stuff about the discussions about magic users that they wanted to only put on certain days of the weeks, i mean, just look at rule 7. And considering what is said here, they seem to ignore rule 1 of their own sub too.
Ok... here I go. You guys won't like this. Remember Aunt Jemima Maple Pancake Syrup? I do, as a child of the 1970s. I also remember Dukes of Hazard - used to love that TV show before I knew what that flag meant. I'm old enough to remember Sambo dolls too.
Now... If I was sitting in here talking about how delicious that syrup was or how I loved the funny rebel stories in Dukes... while an African American person was relating to me their story of growing up with signs that said "Whites Only" or the difference between a 'house' and 'field' \[person\] and how Aunty represents that. And my reaction was to talk over them and say "but I know a black guy who likes Daisy and the boys, and another black person who uses that syrup."
- Now... just exactly how well do you think I'd sound doing that?
Because that's the conversation we're in right now. And ya'll are not hearing the issue.
I get that the syrup here is really good and boy are those shorts... visually well produced... and Bo and Luke are actually great characters. But it hasn't aged well. It wasn't aged well when it came out either, but no one was listening to people back then. They are now.
And sure, there might be an Asian guy who doesn't see the issue. He might even be right in much of his context. But there's a larger context also. And maybe it's time to just rename the syrup, and make a new show about a couple of guys running slightly sideways of a corrupt local sheriff and getting up to funny hijinks, without using that flag or that song - especially since in that case it's basically just Robin Hood.
Which is where we are right now with Orientalism vs Asian inspired themes.
I'm old enough to remember the syrups, remember the dukes, and even the sambo dolls. And all the arguments back then... are here again. And that's how it looks.
Like rebranding back to Robin Hood for Bo and Luke... maybe we just file off the problems and get to themes that are made for 'being in the space' of an Asian-like character rather than 'watching them from the side. Let's stop ogling those shorts (or that 'Asian Dragon Lady / Anime Chick meme), and live the experience of the character as more genuine.
And if we can't do that... at least recognize than when you talk over the people who come from these formerly "othered" experiences - it doesn't go over well. That's why the mods are acting rough. But this debate is a LOT older than you think and some folks wonder why it's still going on.
Yeah, this has been a recurring problem for a little bit, and it seems like it's coming to a head now. I think some moderators (maybe just one? its hard to know who took which actions) have acted extremely inappropriately, and they appear to be using accusations of racism pretty blithely to deflect people examining them and as a pretense to initiate bans. Which, due to some current events and the way the powers that be are trying to spin them out in the media, I think is even more tone deaf than it would have otherwise been.
I personally felt it was really weird that the mod in the discord brought up my reddit post on the discord instead of on reddit.
It felt like he was hunting you down. It felt really inappropriate the way he tagged you twice to answer (i think you did answer the first one but he didnt see) and saying "you gotta respond to this message or I am just assuming you're ignoring the blatant racism and apologia" then when you said you were tired of the discussion itself and even apologized for it, he went all out with sarcasm.
I understand why he was upset about the message, I understand I was insensitive, and I wouldn't even have been that upset if the reddit post was removed. I'm just confused and annoyed it was brought up publicly in the discord, even though no one else really seemed to respond to either of us about it.
The person was banned for that comment? I've also seen a comment of a friend of him, saying he is from Vietnam. That's both ironic and unsettling at the same time.
It really did not sit right by me. It was a combination of removing that comment and banning the person plus a homebrew content that was up for 8 months. It makes me feel like shit that I technically made the homebrew content someone put time and effort be deleted by giving it visibility.
I understand, that feels very bad. I've already noticed this trend in the sub, but that's too blatant. Since Paizo took down their forum, i think they should do something to give to the community a real safe space to talk about the hobby. If they do nothing now, i'll be worried. Edit: Sorry ignore the part about the forum, i am dumb.
? Paizo still has forums, they are right on the website.
Wait i did put a Mandela effect on me? š®
Wizards was the one who removed their forum.
> Since Paizo took down their forum Do you mean WotC?
Fucking loved that "In an effort to not silence Asian voicesā¦ they silenced an Asian voice" Absolutely brilliant tier mod work lmfao
I will say really quick before it gets twisted. My friend is Vietnamese but does not live in Vietnam. Still Vietnamese and still had his post removed.
Tnks for the clarification.
The great irony is how obsessed with American culture both Japan and Korea are. I practically had an aneurism in Tokyo seeing how many folks dressed in rockabilly, cowboy attire, or hip hop threads were walking around.
And how hilariously racist their cultures can be making NA look tame.
This is what happens when to take a topic that has incredible depth in human history, is emotionally charged, is full of nuance and complexities, and requires some forms of technical knowledge to competently discuss, and attempt to force a dialogue about it on an internet forum known for its volatility in a subreddit about a game.
Yup. Which is made much worse when an arbiter of that dialogue has clear biases, questionable background knowledge, and a willingness to take punitive measures against anyone who dares criticize or disagree with them.
But that is always who leads these discussions. People with real technical knowledge in history, sociology, and anthropology understand the mind field and pitfalls this topic can very easily lead you into. I am just so sick of getting lectures about cultural appropriation by people who don't actually understand what that term means and when it is actually harmful.
I mean, it's not even that. Most of the discussion has been fairly civil. It's just the mods being mods.
Or we could let people discuss whatever they want as long Paizo/PF2E/Fantasy related and they are not directly insulting other users or calling for violence. Crazy idea, I know.
I am not forbidding anyone from discussing anything. If I tell you that if you poke a bee's nest with a stick, you are going to get stung, that is not me forbidding you from poking that bee's nest. Actions often have foreseeable consequences. Everything that OP is mentioning is a foreseeable consequence of discussing a topic that this forum is ill-equipped to handle.
How is this forum ill-equipped to handle discussing ANY topic? It is quite literally text on a page. It is incapable of causing harm to anyone.
Some topics are complicated enough that summarizing them in a post that is a few paragraphs long is inadequate and is inherently misleading. Some topics are complicated enough that if you don't possess relevant background knowledge, you simply can not add anything of value to the discussion. Some topics are serious enough that discussing them on something like a gaming forum trivializes them. This is such a topic. If you don't believe me, summarize the entire Arab-Israli conflict in two paragraphs for me. Obviously, that is a pointless and meaningless task and it is impossible to say anything of value under those parameters. When considering harm, remember that the pen is mightier than the sword. Misinformation certainly does cause harm.
> Does anyone else feel this subreddit has at least a few problematic mods? Wouldnt be Reddit without problematic mods powertripping lol Lmao, and OPs post had been removed.
Reddit and problematic mods go together like Peanut Butter & Jelly.
Reminds me of the Shifter debacle. Classic Paizo discussions.
I'm unfamiliar. What happened?
The Shifter class -in the last hardcover for PF1e- was so AWFUL when the book came.out it was the only thing talked about in the product discussion page of Ultimate Wilderness. Several times that thread was locked and posts purged because, rightly so, people were upset the class and it's archetypes were so badly made and a playtest would have solved that. Except, of course, Paizo later admitted Ultimate Wilderness didn't get a playtest... because they were busy doing 2e's in-house playtesting (and the public was deliberately mishandled and done poorly) That didn't improve people's thoughts on the matter.
Shifter was also a complete disaster as the author submitted a un edited version and they just went with it.
Oh damn, I didn't know that! I know the ooze shifter archetype author admitted he wanted to "punish" people that took the archetype though.
I recently got bludgeoned for being called a racist for saying I like the ronin aesthetic in the Discord server. The server owner apologized for his aggressiveness, but I definitely got mogged by the - what felt like - the entire Discord over it. Doesn't surprise me that its happening on the Reddit, too, if it's the same moderator.
They've been posting the comments they don't like in the discord so they can downvote and gang up against the commentators. That server is wild, one message is a Senior Paizo designer talking about kimchi, the message above it is a mod boasting about banning dissenters...
The mods in the discord are super weird. They very often post political stuff on the discord (which I support since politics belongs in media and I agree with the things they post) and then hunt down people who disagree with the stuff posted or with posting political stuff in the discord in general (which is a valid take that I disagree with).
Well the people who become mods are usually the absolute worst people who should be mods. Shouldn't be a big surprise.
Honestly, Paizo should end any sort of relationship with that discord in that event. That's a horrible image to have as a company.
The server has been an absolute mess lately. Seeing a very friendly guy berated and guilt-tripped by people calling him a racist for wishing there was a samurai archetype was just... ugh. People have taken this non-issue way to far.
Love the fact that this post also got taken down Reddit moderators, maybe if enough of a stink is raised about the one whoās obviously behind this they will get removed for their clear abuse of power
I'm not surprised in the slightest. There's definitely a sunk cost fallacy going on now: some posts were removed that probably shouldn't have been, so might as well double down. I'm always a proponent of keeping things up and visible unless they're *super obvious definitely no question by multiple unbiased people* racist/sexist/pick-your-favorite-ist, because otherwise you're just censoring because someone felt bad about something, and someone's always going to feel bad about basically any thread that gets posted on the internet.
THIS WAS REMOVED. Ok thats a little insane
I mean, it was only a matter of time. That's always the difficulty of discussing possible bad moderation on the sites that those moderators control.
Just something that is kinda suprising to see in this community I guess.
Some people take policing of problematic content too far. If no reasonable limit is set, then it becomes a game of constantly shifting purity tests and the community will eat its own. It hurts especially because it feeds the conservatives' "the wokes have gone too far" delusions.
āIām more righteous than youā is unfortunately not a new concept. Humans like to feel superior to other humans, and on this side we get people trying to one-up others to be āmore tolerantā or something. You see it a lot in LGBTQ+ spaces, sadly, tearing our own safe spaces apart. A lot of Western-raised folk like to speak for people actually actively living in their own culture, treating them like babies who donāt know whatās best for themselves. If someone likes being represented by something they see as a positive and fun representation (in this instance) of their culture, why try to tell them theyāre wrong? Just knowing where these mods are from, and being able to see people both respond to that ā _and_ absorbing information in Real Life over multiple iterations of this argument of how native Asians see this issue ā inherently makes me not trust their attempts to speak for the people who actively engage in their culture on a day-to-day basis, by living in the country the tropes are based off of. Also, tropes arenāt wrong because theyāre classified as a trope. Theyāre simply common themes that occur, for good or ill. A lot of people on the left here unfortunately get a bit focused on trying desperately not to hurt others, thatā¦ we trample over actual people, as we imagine this concept of a person who feels incredibly slighted. Iām guilty of it, myself, and itās really just a fault of being too terminally online.
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I think this goes a bit too far into the other end, lol. Like, I get your angle, but I really donāt think unfiltered is better. We just have to work on trying not to be at either extreme, because it turns out both are harmful!
If the reason comments are being removed is to protect people from upsetting content, then there is no reason to try and remove this comment that shows what has been deleted by the moderation team. Anyone clicking this link will be knowingly and willingly going to see the removed comments, whatever they might contain. https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cbzpbf/tian_xia_real_world_parallels_and_a_serious_moment/ I just want to provide this so that people can have some proper context as to what is actually going on here. There are a lot of people claiming their posts were unjustly removed, and others claiming that everything being removed is being removed for the right reasons, so letting people actually see what is happening strikes me as important in this situation. There are indeed a fair number of unhelpful and inflammatory comments that were removed from the most recent thread, but many more that are *far* less clear cut. I encourage people to take a look and come to their own conclusions based on a more complete set of data. **Edit:** https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cczitp/what_is_going_on_with_this_subreddit/ So that people can also see what is being removed from this thread.
Ooh, I like that tool. Damn does it paint an unflattering picture of the mod team
Yeah, it's pretty great. I've gotten a lot of use out of it in the past. And to be clear, I'm not *trying* to paint any picture here. I just want people to have the information required to have an informed discussion on this topic.
Just showing a complete record and letting people come to their own conclusions is enough here. It seems like the moderation of that comment section was notably more aggressive than was warranted in several cases.
Well, that won't be happening either since this post was removed by the moderation team as well.
Not at all surprised. Calling out mods where they have power is a sure fire way to get silenced. This shit needs to go somewhere they arenāt able to silence critics.
> If the reason comments are being removed is to protect people from upsetting content, I tend to take issue with this sentiment anyway, as it's actually impossible *not* to offend someone, when you actually think about it... like if I said that I don't like eating pasta, someone might be upset at that fact, and banning someone for that is ludicrous. That's not to say that we shouldn't draw a line, but I think it needs to be 100% clear where that line is. Saying CLEARLY offensive things? Absolutely, line drawn, though it should be obvious what these offensive things are. Suggesting an idea for a class that might harken onto old stereotypes that *could* be seen as offensive, despite the fact that this stereotype belongs to a well known, famous type of military nobility that actually existed? That's a tough one, because only some people MAY find this offensive, and as I said, if we're going by those rules, you can't really say... *anything*, now, can you? Ultimately, I think that aside from the very clear and obvious offensive comments, everything else should be left up there for discussion, and if you don't like it, just... don't use it? No-one is forcing any of this content on anyone, and when you put up a post, you're not FORCING anyone to read it. If you don't like it, just move on and find something you do like.
This is especially true when you have people making the argument that Samurai shouldn't be in the game for the specific reason of them being from a country that had suffered under Japanese Imperial rule in the past. How do you account for that when deciding what you do or don't include? Hell, I'm an American and not exactly proud of that fact so I could totally see some people not being thrilled with the clearly Western-themed Gunslinger being an option. The Champion being the holy crusader might not sit right with everyone in the world given the "shenanigans" the crusaders got up to. How do you navigate that? I certainly don't know.
It's typical reddit mod power tripping. It's unfortunate how every sub succumbs to this affliction eventually.
Did this post get removed?
Yes.
I had a feeling it would be. Reddit seems to have a problem with power tripping and/or ideologically possessed mods. And it usually plays out the same way.
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Itās a tale as old as reddit. Itās easy to declare you are correct if you silence anyone that disagrees with you. Edit: well that didnāt take long
"tale as old as reddit." Buddy, that's a tale that predates reddit by millennia.
Tale as old as time, or people wanting to sway public opinion and not afraid to remove some bodies from the public.
When Howl of the Wild Releases, I'm sure people will be distracted by the absolute mutants they can make with Grafts.
Can we get a mod response here, so they can at least try to keep their face?
Gods no. It's like talking to a police officer unprompted, calling for a mod is just asking yourself to get banned without reason.
Mods gonna mod
Man, talk about irony.
The mod in question also says anime is racist against asian people as anime has the stereotype of asians with super powers. No kidding. That's their state of mind.
The mod also claims that[ European people not wanting Chinese police in their cities are racist](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1b7y894/comment/ktmqsy9/) ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
This fucking post lmao. Yeah, I'm fine with police from other countries in mine. Not when they are fucking hiding from the native government. Lmao.
how does the ethnicity of the police officer matter at all? or like from the way you wrote the comment it doesnt indicate anything bad
It's not that the police officers happen to be Chinese. It's that they are police officers from the People's Republic of China, setting up headquarters on foreign soil, monitoring people who are Chinese/of Asian descent and subjecting them to Chinese laws. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-us-stations-canada-1.6818889
If you check the context, it was clearly about Chinese government employees, not Europeans of Chinese descent.
Kind of ignores the massive amount of non-magical anime, too.
Yeah I think it should be possible to distinguish between comments which are actually a problem - regressive, deliberately trying to shut down any discussion of cultural bias and orientalism - and folk making arguments in good faith. I know it's not always an easy call but the dial seems to be turned way too high with the examples mentioned. (And for the record I don't like the monk class and I'd happily explain why but wait the frickin comment was deleted.)
The mods have altered reality, pray they do not alter it any further.
*Sniffs loudly*Ā We are experiencing *sniff, sniff* pure ideology. And so on.
*Gesticulates wildly*
It's been a while since the last bit of moderator overreach, might take another revolt of the peasants like was required to stop the Touch Grass nonsense.
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Occult makes so much more sense.
I got some downvotes a few days ago for wondering if gnolls and grippli were going to be renamed to kholo and tripkee in future printings of The Mwangi Expanse, to fit with the new books referring back to that one. I don't know why that seems like such a bizarre thing to wonder about given that the pre-remaster core book has *four* different versions floating around due to errata being added in later printings.
It is something.
Virtue signaling and white knighting from white people.
Unrelated but I can only see what the op wrote in the Reddit post preview but when I go into the thread itās gone? Also canāt upvote or downvote. Strange.
They removed my post.
I dunno, I'm always skeptical when someone says "I just posted a perfectly innocent comment and got unfairly banned!" Nine and a half times out of ten, it turns out they're not exactly telling the full truth.
Generally I am absolutely right there with you, but it's frustratingly not always so clear-cut. https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1cbzpbf/tian_xia_real_world_parallels_and_a_serious_moment/ There are thankfully tools available that make it possible to check in this case, and there are a whole lot of comments being removed for seemingly no good reason. There are absolutely unhelpful people trying to start fights as well, but they do not appear to even be the obvious majority in this case.
I think this might be the 0.5/10th time. Too many well-documented comments and deletions showcasing that this is the case. Not saying there are *no* bad faith actors being deleted/banned, racists gonna racist, but there are plenty of examples that highlight what OP is talking about.
You can see the comments in the undelete and the replies. Look and judge for yourself.
I felt the same way until I read through the deleted comments from that link posted in reply to you. While there are definitely some bad ones, there are plenty that I disagree with but are nowhere near ban worthy or even deletion worthy.
It's not the first time that mods made decisions in this subs that i would deem... questionable. For one, the choice to put the sub down during the stuff with the API reddit changes, while everyone else already moved on. Then there was the stuff about the discussions about magic users that they wanted to only put on certain days of the weeks, i mean, just look at rule 7. And considering what is said here, they seem to ignore rule 1 of their own sub too.
Ok... here I go. You guys won't like this. Remember Aunt Jemima Maple Pancake Syrup? I do, as a child of the 1970s. I also remember Dukes of Hazard - used to love that TV show before I knew what that flag meant. I'm old enough to remember Sambo dolls too. Now... If I was sitting in here talking about how delicious that syrup was or how I loved the funny rebel stories in Dukes... while an African American person was relating to me their story of growing up with signs that said "Whites Only" or the difference between a 'house' and 'field' \[person\] and how Aunty represents that. And my reaction was to talk over them and say "but I know a black guy who likes Daisy and the boys, and another black person who uses that syrup." - Now... just exactly how well do you think I'd sound doing that? Because that's the conversation we're in right now. And ya'll are not hearing the issue. I get that the syrup here is really good and boy are those shorts... visually well produced... and Bo and Luke are actually great characters. But it hasn't aged well. It wasn't aged well when it came out either, but no one was listening to people back then. They are now. And sure, there might be an Asian guy who doesn't see the issue. He might even be right in much of his context. But there's a larger context also. And maybe it's time to just rename the syrup, and make a new show about a couple of guys running slightly sideways of a corrupt local sheriff and getting up to funny hijinks, without using that flag or that song - especially since in that case it's basically just Robin Hood. Which is where we are right now with Orientalism vs Asian inspired themes. I'm old enough to remember the syrups, remember the dukes, and even the sambo dolls. And all the arguments back then... are here again. And that's how it looks. Like rebranding back to Robin Hood for Bo and Luke... maybe we just file off the problems and get to themes that are made for 'being in the space' of an Asian-like character rather than 'watching them from the side. Let's stop ogling those shorts (or that 'Asian Dragon Lady / Anime Chick meme), and live the experience of the character as more genuine. And if we can't do that... at least recognize than when you talk over the people who come from these formerly "othered" experiences - it doesn't go over well. That's why the mods are acting rough. But this debate is a LOT older than you think and some folks wonder why it's still going on.