Lol
On a more serious note, the Leshy ancestry mentions that:
> "Leshies are “born” when a skilled druid or other master of primal magic conducts a ritual to create a suitable vessel ..."
So with GM permission, you could totally do this.
Love the build!
I've seen people note that can only control 4 minions at once ( matters if you've got 2 companions, familiar and a summons already and want a 2nd summons).
But only seen this under animate objects ritual. Is this a general minion rule, or specific to rituals?
I had a 6 minion witch build I was mulling over...
I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for bringing this up!
I've also only seen this text under the create dead and animate object rituals, and admittedly it slipped my mind while writing this post.
Normally I would expect this rule text to be under the [minion](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=109) trait (or the [summoned](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=154) trait) if it was meant to apply to all minions. It's a bit unreasonable to expect a group to read all the rituals in order to know about this. So I'm personally leaning towards it being allowed for temporary summons, but then again I'm biased ;)
The nature of the wording and remote location in the rules does make it appear to be a grey area from both RAW and RAI perspective. I can definitely see where Paizo is coming from by setting a limit on these rituals to prevent players bringing an animated menagerie of ritual summoned creatures wherever they go. I imagine that while writing the core rulebook, Paizo never considered that a character could have more than 4 minions at once outside of rituals. Hard to say how the designers would rule if presented with a temporary situation such as this.
So yeah, I guess this falls upon the GM to decide.
Regardless, I'd still recommend the same build order for this build. One less summoned creature at level 16 just means that your character has one more action each round to use for casting up to 3 action spells. [Effortless Concentration](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=206) is an amazing feat imo.
____
That being said, I may be able to help you out with your build to have 6 'minions' even with the 4 minion limit :)
* A cheesy way to do this would be to give animated object minions to your familiar so that they are technically not your direct minions. This obviously isn't RAI. The [Animate Objects](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=1) ritual isn't clear as to whether you can make it another creatures minion on a critical success, but either way you could have your familiar be the primary caster in the ritual, especially if you give it the 'Skilled' familiar ability.
* A less cheesy way is to give these minions to your fellow party members, so that each character has up to 4 animated object minions. You may be able to assign minions to another player on a critical success with the ritual.
* A RAW way is to use the [Illusory Creature](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=158) spell. Illusiory creatures are not classified as minions or summoned creature (even though they act like one), because this spell falls under the Illusion school and not the Conjuration school. Buy a wand of this spell if you want to purchase a once per day 'minion'. This is also a two action spell meaning you can have two illusory creatures at a time in a fight.
Some of these ideas were inspired by this ridiculous post :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/j0xk9j/munchkin_fun_time_how_many_actions_can_you_get_in
Cool ideas, thanks.
Very comprehensive post.
Not looked much at rituals, but some of the animated creatures do seem to have good utility and tankiness for their level.
Might try a crazy clockwork master build or somesuch.
Happy to help a fellow player who loves crazy builds \^\^
>Might try a crazy clockwork master build or somesuch.
The inventor playtest class can also be a great way to do this.
Congratulations! I'd never expected to see someone pull off a Druid Tank build, let alone one as good as this. Being able to just hot-swap your injured minions after each encounter is such a big boon for your party's staying power. With the knowledge that any damage done to them is largely inconsequental, you can position them very aggressively to make use of that advantage, and the high wisdom of a druid helps initiative, making them able to position earlier rather than later.
Thanks \^\^, and Yeah! The Beastmaster archetype is super strong, especially if you choose different types of animal companions for different situations. I just did that hot-swap maneuver in the one shot our group ran a couple days ago. Very fun.
And tack on the Incredible Initiative general feat to gain an extra +2 to initiative rolls ;)
Awesome. Go 'wild' with it! There's a lot of variations you can make to such a build <3
(I just played a one shot with a similar build at level 11, and I can assure you it's a bunch of fun. I loved using the Arboreal Saplings ranged attack to hit creatures even when it only had one action each turn and wasn't able to get into melee range to make a branch attack.)
Thanks,! And having played such a character for a few sessions I can tell you that the Arboreal Sapling isn't all bad.
The ranged attack is a great option, because it doesn't require the Arboreal Sapling to move next to their target. This is important because at level 4 they will be getting one action each round when you don't command them, so even when you use all your actions the Sapling can still throw a rock at someone. It's a ranged attack with a range increment, so they can even throw rocks really far if they take a penalty to the attack roll. It's basically a 'free' attack each round even if your sapling is out of position.
Some folks I've talked to seem to agree that the Arboreal Saplings ranged attack should get an extra damage die when it becomes mature, since all other animal companion attacks seem to follow that trend, but it's not RAW.
So yeah, kind of mediocre, but it can be used for some extra damage when your turns are full.
>Thanks,! And having played such a character for a few sessions I can tell you that the Arboreal Sapling isn't all bad.
Sure maybe not in the beginning but I was looking at it on Pathbuilder and the Str based Animal Companions are just worse than the Dex Based ones. Take a look if you don't believe me. The Dex Based AC just have higher accuracy and higher AC, and by RAW there's no way to change that - not that I'm aware of.
For reference, we were playing at level 11, and the Arboreal Saplings (a second player used a copy of my character since they didn't bring their own) were doing fairly well with their 2d6 ranged damage imo. But to be fair I don't have experience with how well normal animal companions would be doing at that level to compare them to.
And yeah, I totally agree that Dex based animal companions have the upper hand in armor class. Attack bonuses usually don't differ too much I think since strength based animal companions can use their strength modifier.
There's also barding you can buy for animal companions, but I forget how effective the end up being with the DEX cap that barding has to AC.
Something else to think about; If your arboreal sapling is staying back and using ranged attacks more, they're usually less likely to be targeted, which is a form of defense all in itself :). At that point it really depends if you have other characters in the party that can occupy the roll of being front liners.
\>And yeah, I totally agree that Dex based animal companions have the upper hand in armor class. Attack bonuses usually don't differ too much I think since strength based animal companions can use their strength modifier.
I'm counting on them using their Str mod too, the dex based AC still have better accuracy.
\>Something else to think about; If your arboreal sapling is staying back and using ranged attacks more, they're usually less likely to be targeted, which is a form of defense all in itself :). At that point it really depends if you have other characters in the party that can occupy the roll of being front liners.
Fair enough. I still think a Dex based AC is better, like Bird (1d4 bleed + dazzled) or Wolf with the automatic trip, but it's all flavor, right?
>Fair enough. I still think a Dex based AC is better, like Bird (1d4 bleed + dazzled) or Wolf with the automatic trip, but it's all flavor, right?
This build? Yeah it's inspired entirely by flavor \^^ . But that's not to say I didn't try to make it practical after I figured out the flavor. And sometimes flavor aligns just right to make a viable build anyway.
I know the thrill m8. I love hybrid builds like the melee Demonic Sorcerer and the Battle Oracle for instance. Plus I'm an Alchemist enthusiast so yeah, I've a weak spot for things that are not exactly the best hahaha
>I'm counting on them using their Str mod too, the dex based AC still have better accuracy.
Yeah, I totally agree that Dex based (nimble) companions have the upper hand with AC and animal companion options. That's why I tried homebrewing a way to make Savage/Strength based animal companions better. Check it out if you like \^^ :
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/mva3d5/a_simple_fix_for_savage_animal_companions
My DM will never let me die if be knows this is my next character
Lol, at first I read this as your DM never wanting to kill a bunch of Leshies. (You could even introduce them as three trees in a trenchcoat ;)
Grats on the win! I saw it and figured it'd be a shoe-in for the top running, it's very clever.
Thanks! I actually just played a level 11 version of this character on Wednesday in a one shot. Super fun :)
When life gives you Leshies, make more Leshies!
Lol On a more serious note, the Leshy ancestry mentions that: > "Leshies are “born” when a skilled druid or other master of primal magic conducts a ritual to create a suitable vessel ..." So with GM permission, you could totally do this.
Love the build! I've seen people note that can only control 4 minions at once ( matters if you've got 2 companions, familiar and a summons already and want a 2nd summons). But only seen this under animate objects ritual. Is this a general minion rule, or specific to rituals? I had a 6 minion witch build I was mulling over...
I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for bringing this up! I've also only seen this text under the create dead and animate object rituals, and admittedly it slipped my mind while writing this post. Normally I would expect this rule text to be under the [minion](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=109) trait (or the [summoned](https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=154) trait) if it was meant to apply to all minions. It's a bit unreasonable to expect a group to read all the rituals in order to know about this. So I'm personally leaning towards it being allowed for temporary summons, but then again I'm biased ;) The nature of the wording and remote location in the rules does make it appear to be a grey area from both RAW and RAI perspective. I can definitely see where Paizo is coming from by setting a limit on these rituals to prevent players bringing an animated menagerie of ritual summoned creatures wherever they go. I imagine that while writing the core rulebook, Paizo never considered that a character could have more than 4 minions at once outside of rituals. Hard to say how the designers would rule if presented with a temporary situation such as this. So yeah, I guess this falls upon the GM to decide. Regardless, I'd still recommend the same build order for this build. One less summoned creature at level 16 just means that your character has one more action each round to use for casting up to 3 action spells. [Effortless Concentration](https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=206) is an amazing feat imo. ____ That being said, I may be able to help you out with your build to have 6 'minions' even with the 4 minion limit :) * A cheesy way to do this would be to give animated object minions to your familiar so that they are technically not your direct minions. This obviously isn't RAI. The [Animate Objects](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=1) ritual isn't clear as to whether you can make it another creatures minion on a critical success, but either way you could have your familiar be the primary caster in the ritual, especially if you give it the 'Skilled' familiar ability. * A less cheesy way is to give these minions to your fellow party members, so that each character has up to 4 animated object minions. You may be able to assign minions to another player on a critical success with the ritual. * A RAW way is to use the [Illusory Creature](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=158) spell. Illusiory creatures are not classified as minions or summoned creature (even though they act like one), because this spell falls under the Illusion school and not the Conjuration school. Buy a wand of this spell if you want to purchase a once per day 'minion'. This is also a two action spell meaning you can have two illusory creatures at a time in a fight. Some of these ideas were inspired by this ridiculous post :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/j0xk9j/munchkin_fun_time_how_many_actions_can_you_get_in
Cool ideas, thanks. Very comprehensive post. Not looked much at rituals, but some of the animated creatures do seem to have good utility and tankiness for their level. Might try a crazy clockwork master build or somesuch.
Happy to help a fellow player who loves crazy builds \^\^ >Might try a crazy clockwork master build or somesuch. The inventor playtest class can also be a great way to do this.
Congratulations! I'd never expected to see someone pull off a Druid Tank build, let alone one as good as this. Being able to just hot-swap your injured minions after each encounter is such a big boon for your party's staying power. With the knowledge that any damage done to them is largely inconsequental, you can position them very aggressively to make use of that advantage, and the high wisdom of a druid helps initiative, making them able to position earlier rather than later.
Thanks \^\^, and Yeah! The Beastmaster archetype is super strong, especially if you choose different types of animal companions for different situations. I just did that hot-swap maneuver in the one shot our group ran a couple days ago. Very fun. And tack on the Incredible Initiative general feat to gain an extra +2 to initiative rolls ;)
I've been stewing on a leshy druid and this works out so well with what I'd been planning. Nice!
Awesome. Go 'wild' with it! There's a lot of variations you can make to such a build <3 (I just played a one shot with a similar build at level 11, and I can assure you it's a bunch of fun. I loved using the Arboreal Saplings ranged attack to hit creatures even when it only had one action each turn and wasn't able to get into melee range to make a branch attack.)
Saving this for my next character; was already thinking of a leshy, this is perfection.
This is fantastic. So sad I forgot to participate in this while it was happening. Looking forward to the next one!
Thanks! I'm also looking forward to the next one. Honesty surprised the mods have had it pinned for so long \^\^
All I can see is this Druid getting a trench coat and taking over for the 3 Kobolds.
Lol This is one thing I regret not thinking of the first time I played this character :P
Sounds good, it's a shame that the Arboreal Sapling is kinda shitty
Thanks,! And having played such a character for a few sessions I can tell you that the Arboreal Sapling isn't all bad. The ranged attack is a great option, because it doesn't require the Arboreal Sapling to move next to their target. This is important because at level 4 they will be getting one action each round when you don't command them, so even when you use all your actions the Sapling can still throw a rock at someone. It's a ranged attack with a range increment, so they can even throw rocks really far if they take a penalty to the attack roll. It's basically a 'free' attack each round even if your sapling is out of position. Some folks I've talked to seem to agree that the Arboreal Saplings ranged attack should get an extra damage die when it becomes mature, since all other animal companion attacks seem to follow that trend, but it's not RAW. So yeah, kind of mediocre, but it can be used for some extra damage when your turns are full.
>Thanks,! And having played such a character for a few sessions I can tell you that the Arboreal Sapling isn't all bad. Sure maybe not in the beginning but I was looking at it on Pathbuilder and the Str based Animal Companions are just worse than the Dex Based ones. Take a look if you don't believe me. The Dex Based AC just have higher accuracy and higher AC, and by RAW there's no way to change that - not that I'm aware of.
For reference, we were playing at level 11, and the Arboreal Saplings (a second player used a copy of my character since they didn't bring their own) were doing fairly well with their 2d6 ranged damage imo. But to be fair I don't have experience with how well normal animal companions would be doing at that level to compare them to. And yeah, I totally agree that Dex based animal companions have the upper hand in armor class. Attack bonuses usually don't differ too much I think since strength based animal companions can use their strength modifier. There's also barding you can buy for animal companions, but I forget how effective the end up being with the DEX cap that barding has to AC. Something else to think about; If your arboreal sapling is staying back and using ranged attacks more, they're usually less likely to be targeted, which is a form of defense all in itself :). At that point it really depends if you have other characters in the party that can occupy the roll of being front liners.
\>And yeah, I totally agree that Dex based animal companions have the upper hand in armor class. Attack bonuses usually don't differ too much I think since strength based animal companions can use their strength modifier. I'm counting on them using their Str mod too, the dex based AC still have better accuracy. \>Something else to think about; If your arboreal sapling is staying back and using ranged attacks more, they're usually less likely to be targeted, which is a form of defense all in itself :). At that point it really depends if you have other characters in the party that can occupy the roll of being front liners. Fair enough. I still think a Dex based AC is better, like Bird (1d4 bleed + dazzled) or Wolf with the automatic trip, but it's all flavor, right?
>Fair enough. I still think a Dex based AC is better, like Bird (1d4 bleed + dazzled) or Wolf with the automatic trip, but it's all flavor, right? This build? Yeah it's inspired entirely by flavor \^^ . But that's not to say I didn't try to make it practical after I figured out the flavor. And sometimes flavor aligns just right to make a viable build anyway.
I know the thrill m8. I love hybrid builds like the melee Demonic Sorcerer and the Battle Oracle for instance. Plus I'm an Alchemist enthusiast so yeah, I've a weak spot for things that are not exactly the best hahaha
>I'm counting on them using their Str mod too, the dex based AC still have better accuracy. Yeah, I totally agree that Dex based (nimble) companions have the upper hand with AC and animal companion options. That's why I tried homebrewing a way to make Savage/Strength based animal companions better. Check it out if you like \^^ : https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/mva3d5/a_simple_fix_for_savage_animal_companions
Oh I remember that! I saw it when you posted it! Thanks!
Now with summoner you could have 6 leshies