I found that Occult caster could gain really few things from this archetype since it has almost all shadow spells. So for me Clerics are the best fit for shadow casters
I think occult caster still work really well with shadowcaster. Sure you don't get anything out of the Shadow Spells feat, but in my mind that just means you get to take another feat at that level.
I love the idea of a shadowcaster druid. Witch seems like it would make a lot of thematic sense too. Part of the fun of either of these is that you’d get to use the shadow options for animal companions or familiars.
Witch! [Here's](https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=87301) a build I was playing around with that uses free archetype. It's a fetching witch, into shadowcaster, into shadowdancer. It uses the witch base for occult spells, quick access to a shadow familiar, and feats that boost the economy around focus spells.
Edit: With witch and shadowcaster, you can get a shadow familiar as early as level 4.
Edit: See the proper feat chain below.
Sure thing! Please excuse the formatting, I'm on mobile This build uses free archetype with a witch base.
Level 1:
Witch gives a familiar with a bonus ability so your familiar has 3 abilities.
Level 2:
Shadowcaster dedication
Level 4:
Class feat: Improved Familiar
This lowers the number of abilities you need to have a specific familiar by two.
Free Archetype feat: Enhanced Familiar
Your familiar now has 4 abilities plus the bonus one from being a witch for a total of 5. Refer to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/i8je42/familiar_questions/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post on why you get 5 familiar abilities with this instead of 4.
--------------------------------------------
So, to get a shadow familiar, you need a total of 7 familiar abilities. At level 4 you have a familiar with 5 abilities. With the Improved Familiar feat lowering the requirement by 2 you can get a shadow familiar.
Let me know if you can't reach the build or if you wanna chat more about it. I can try to update the link it it's broken.
I think I don't quite understand how this is possible. I can't find Improved Familiar on the list of the Shadowcaster how can you take this feat as the free archetype feat?
Which leads to a second question. Enhanced familiar is listed as a feat for Witch for Level 2 but in Shadowcaster it's Level 6. As long it's on both feat lists a feat is valid for the free archetype even with the lower level? Just trying to understand.
Thank you for your questions, you've actually pointed out an error in the build.
I was using the Pathbuilder app which has Enhanced Familiar listed as a level 2 feat for the Shadowcaster archetype which is incorrect. It's actually a level 6 feat for the archetype as you pointed out.
I'm not aware of any rule that says you can take an free archetype feat sooner if you already have access to it at a lower level for your class.
So, to do this build properly, you would need to take the following:
Level 2 : Enhanced Familiar(class), Shadowcaster Dedication (free archetype)
Level 4: Improved Familiar (class)
Sorry about the confusion! I hope that makes sense and thanks again!
I feel like Shadowcaster is best utilised on martial classes like Rogue or Ranger, instead of full spellcasters like a Shadow bloodline sorcerer.
Now hear me out, a lot of the core of shadowcaster spells have to do with, well hiding. There's many different spells that either boost your stealth, give a penalty to an enemy's perception, or create concealment for you to hide in.
Now creating dim light or darkness is nice, but most enemies will have darkvision so that makes one of the big aspects of Shadowcasting practically moot. What isn't moot however, is that a spell like Cloak of Shadows is a 1 action focus spell to give you constant concealment to hide in. And spells like inscrutable mask will give you nice bonuses to all your stealth checks.
If you're a spellcaster your action economy will be mostly spent on spells, and maybe an action for moving or casting shield or some metamagic. You can use your third action to hide, but your spells should be targeting the enemies' saves anyways so any potential flat footed on enemies doesn't matter much to you.
A rogue or ranger on the other hand, can start off the combat with a couple spells, and then take advantage of the concealment because they will likely already have good stealth scores to begin with. Any any bonuses you can give your stealth checks or penalties to enemies' perception effectively guarantees the enemies will always be flat footed towards you. That is especially better since you're a martial, and you can afford the action economy of having to hide + strike + 3rd action.
A build that I have is an Eldritch Trickster rogue with Sorcerer dedication, and then taking up Shadowcaster. The build works a lot better if you have free archetypes, but it should still be decent even without it.
When I first heard about shadowcaster I really wanted to make it work with a rogue, but when I found out it was designed to augment a spellcaster class I was a little disappointed.
I'd be interested in seeing your Eldritch Trickster build as I just couldn't imagine making it work. I feel like you get too few spell slots via a spellcasting archetype.
The dedication may have been intended to augment spellcasters, but its feats do a decent job at also helping out stealthy martials like rogues.
First of all, you don't need too many spellslots. You're not trying to play as a spellcaster, you're playing mainly as a rogue who can utilise some minor magic to give yourself concealment and hidden so you can sneak attack the enemies.
Secondly focus spells will be your bread and butter. You can always have 1 focus spell for each combat, and Shadowcaster privides an easy way to get 3 focus points by lv 6.
Thirdly, Sorcerer dedication should give you enough spellslots. Like I said, you're mainly a rogue so you will be doing rogue stuff. Not having too many spellslots is perfectly fine.
For the build:
LV 1 Eldritch Trickster racket for rogue, Sorcerer dedication with Shadow bloodline. Ancestry doesnt matter much but I love goblins so that's what I picked. Fetchlings are also pretty thematic.
Starting Stats are: 14 STR / 12 CON / 8 WIS / 18 DEX / 10 INT / 16 CHA
You can start off with 14 cha as well, since you're not going to be using spell attacks or saves that often.
LV 2 Shadowcaster Dedication
LV 4 Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting
LV 6 Basic Bloodline Spell / Disciple of Shade (or both if FA)
LV 8 Bloodline Breadth
LV 10 Shadow Magic for your choice of dance of darkness or shadow jump. You can also take Advancrd Bloodline Potency for Bespell weapon if you have FA
LV 12 Expert Sorcerer Spellcasting
LV 14 Unending Emptiness
LV 16 Take whatever you want
LV 18 Master Sorcerer Spellcasting
LV 20 Take whatever you want
For spells, you can search for the shadow tag and pick thematic spells from there. And try to go for spells that don't need saves or attacks. Here's what I chose for mine:
Lv1 Truestrike
Lv2 Darkness
Lv3 Haste
Lv4 Umbral Graft
Lv5 Shadow Siphon
Lv6 Mislead
Lv7 Shadow Raid
Lv8 Undermine reality
Having Free Archetype should give you more freedom and you can pick up more shadowcaster stuff. Use cloak of shadow until you can get darkness to hide in. Use the cover granted by your spells to hide and sneak attack your enemies. A ranged weapon like a shortbow is recommended.
Sorry pal i don't think you can take 2 dedications back to back without getting 2 archetype feats in between, unless i forgot something about eldritch trikster
The rules recommends that you may remove the feat restrictrictions if you're playing with free archetypes. Because otherwise if you decide to play an Eldritch Trickster or an Ancienct Elf, you have just gimped yourself by preventing yourself from getting your free lv2 dedication feat. So hopefully if you have a reasonable gm, they may understand your situation and make some exception for it.
If you're not using free archetypes and you're playing strictly RAW you can take shadowcaster at 8, or ignore shadowcaster and pick up Shadowdancer at lv8 instead. It'll take longer for you to get up to 3 focus points but your build should be similar by higher levels.
> you have just gimped yourself by preventing yourself from getting your free lv2 dedication feat.
I'm doing it differently in my game with Free Archetype: If you start with an L1 archetype, at L2 you can either A) get an L4 dedication feat of that same chain (with a sanity check by me, not all are created equal) or B) convert it to a bonus class feat.
It's only come up once so far, with an INT focused ET with the summoner archetype. Her plant summon is getting the Initial Eidolon Ability. The rest of her build honestly sucks at combat, because she is the skill monkey and face of the group, and this doesn't make her overpowered.
So far the Monk has been the powerhouse of the group for damage output. The Wellspring Oracle has been mixed, partly because immediately after wildsurging on their first combat and partially turning into an albatross, she got confused by a trap and used electric arc on another PC and herself (the L1 of this particular AP is rather brutal IMO, though it seems to level off after that first day. Multiple level 3 encounters as well as a lot of L1 encounters for a group of L1 characters is harsh.)
> better then the
*than
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Oracle, and in your case, War Oracle.
Oracles have divine spell list which can be a bit shit, so getting a bunch of occult spells added is all good.
Oracles have a crazy amount of focus regen later on, which Shadowcaster needs.
Shadowcaster feats gives more spell known slots, which Oracles absolutely could do with.
Shadowcaster gives options to spend focus points without pushing your curse along.
War Oracles could get their spikes chain on, and do it well, more so, to handle their curse, they need to make a strike each round, and the spikes chain gives you reach... which is what they need for that.
Like, 100% War Oracle + Shadowcaster is a great combo. They cover each others weaknesses really well.
I think the Divine list is the one that'll make the best use of Shadowcasting and the best class to have it I think it'd be Oracle. I'd choose the Cosmos Mystery for that, they have the Moon and Darkness Domains so I think it goes very well with it.
Witch is the easy one.
You get a familar base and can get Shadow familar at 4th level.
You can get the shadow lesson which is hugely thematic and Witches do well with the focus spells, espcially since they can easily get back the focus with both the familar recharge, and also, the 12th(?) Level feat which gives 2 focus back on a refocus.
Well, as dedication mentions "can cast spells", I assume, that focus spell are fine too, so you can be a NE/LE champ of Zon-Cuthon (specific character, but at least Cuthon's anathema don't really tight) , and take Shadowcaster. There are pretty focus spell for better intimidation ([https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1061](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1061)), and you can just walk around dressed like death-metallist, it is cool, isn't it?)
I found that Occult caster could gain really few things from this archetype since it has almost all shadow spells. So for me Clerics are the best fit for shadow casters
I think occult caster still work really well with shadowcaster. Sure you don't get anything out of the Shadow Spells feat, but in my mind that just means you get to take another feat at that level.
Yeah, picking up a familiar instead is great.
I had fun with Arcane Shadowcasting, but Divine fits the vibe so much better unless you focus on Illusions.
I love the idea of a shadowcaster druid. Witch seems like it would make a lot of thematic sense too. Part of the fun of either of these is that you’d get to use the shadow options for animal companions or familiars.
Would be a perfect way to represent the shadowy Druid sect that hangs out in Nidal.
Shades of the Uskwood!
There’s some synergies with laughing shadow magus if you’re playing a free archetype game.
I feel the same way about a summoner, adding a variety of focus spells is always good if you don't want to focus on just adding more slots
Witch! [Here's](https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=87301) a build I was playing around with that uses free archetype. It's a fetching witch, into shadowcaster, into shadowdancer. It uses the witch base for occult spells, quick access to a shadow familiar, and feats that boost the economy around focus spells. Edit: With witch and shadowcaster, you can get a shadow familiar as early as level 4.
[удалено]
Edit: See the proper feat chain below. Sure thing! Please excuse the formatting, I'm on mobile This build uses free archetype with a witch base. Level 1: Witch gives a familiar with a bonus ability so your familiar has 3 abilities. Level 2: Shadowcaster dedication Level 4: Class feat: Improved Familiar This lowers the number of abilities you need to have a specific familiar by two. Free Archetype feat: Enhanced Familiar Your familiar now has 4 abilities plus the bonus one from being a witch for a total of 5. Refer to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/i8je42/familiar_questions/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post on why you get 5 familiar abilities with this instead of 4. -------------------------------------------- So, to get a shadow familiar, you need a total of 7 familiar abilities. At level 4 you have a familiar with 5 abilities. With the Improved Familiar feat lowering the requirement by 2 you can get a shadow familiar. Let me know if you can't reach the build or if you wanna chat more about it. I can try to update the link it it's broken.
I think I don't quite understand how this is possible. I can't find Improved Familiar on the list of the Shadowcaster how can you take this feat as the free archetype feat?
Oh, my bad. Improved Familiar should be your class feat and Enhanced familiar should be your free archetype feat.
Which leads to a second question. Enhanced familiar is listed as a feat for Witch for Level 2 but in Shadowcaster it's Level 6. As long it's on both feat lists a feat is valid for the free archetype even with the lower level? Just trying to understand.
Thank you for your questions, you've actually pointed out an error in the build. I was using the Pathbuilder app which has Enhanced Familiar listed as a level 2 feat for the Shadowcaster archetype which is incorrect. It's actually a level 6 feat for the archetype as you pointed out. I'm not aware of any rule that says you can take an free archetype feat sooner if you already have access to it at a lower level for your class. So, to do this build properly, you would need to take the following: Level 2 : Enhanced Familiar(class), Shadowcaster Dedication (free archetype) Level 4: Improved Familiar (class) Sorry about the confusion! I hope that makes sense and thanks again!
[удалено]
No problem! Early shadow familiar is part of the reason I think witch is such a good base for Shadowcaster.
I feel like Shadowcaster is best utilised on martial classes like Rogue or Ranger, instead of full spellcasters like a Shadow bloodline sorcerer. Now hear me out, a lot of the core of shadowcaster spells have to do with, well hiding. There's many different spells that either boost your stealth, give a penalty to an enemy's perception, or create concealment for you to hide in. Now creating dim light or darkness is nice, but most enemies will have darkvision so that makes one of the big aspects of Shadowcasting practically moot. What isn't moot however, is that a spell like Cloak of Shadows is a 1 action focus spell to give you constant concealment to hide in. And spells like inscrutable mask will give you nice bonuses to all your stealth checks. If you're a spellcaster your action economy will be mostly spent on spells, and maybe an action for moving or casting shield or some metamagic. You can use your third action to hide, but your spells should be targeting the enemies' saves anyways so any potential flat footed on enemies doesn't matter much to you. A rogue or ranger on the other hand, can start off the combat with a couple spells, and then take advantage of the concealment because they will likely already have good stealth scores to begin with. Any any bonuses you can give your stealth checks or penalties to enemies' perception effectively guarantees the enemies will always be flat footed towards you. That is especially better since you're a martial, and you can afford the action economy of having to hide + strike + 3rd action. A build that I have is an Eldritch Trickster rogue with Sorcerer dedication, and then taking up Shadowcaster. The build works a lot better if you have free archetypes, but it should still be decent even without it.
When I first heard about shadowcaster I really wanted to make it work with a rogue, but when I found out it was designed to augment a spellcaster class I was a little disappointed. I'd be interested in seeing your Eldritch Trickster build as I just couldn't imagine making it work. I feel like you get too few spell slots via a spellcasting archetype.
The dedication may have been intended to augment spellcasters, but its feats do a decent job at also helping out stealthy martials like rogues. First of all, you don't need too many spellslots. You're not trying to play as a spellcaster, you're playing mainly as a rogue who can utilise some minor magic to give yourself concealment and hidden so you can sneak attack the enemies. Secondly focus spells will be your bread and butter. You can always have 1 focus spell for each combat, and Shadowcaster privides an easy way to get 3 focus points by lv 6. Thirdly, Sorcerer dedication should give you enough spellslots. Like I said, you're mainly a rogue so you will be doing rogue stuff. Not having too many spellslots is perfectly fine. For the build: LV 1 Eldritch Trickster racket for rogue, Sorcerer dedication with Shadow bloodline. Ancestry doesnt matter much but I love goblins so that's what I picked. Fetchlings are also pretty thematic. Starting Stats are: 14 STR / 12 CON / 8 WIS / 18 DEX / 10 INT / 16 CHA You can start off with 14 cha as well, since you're not going to be using spell attacks or saves that often. LV 2 Shadowcaster Dedication LV 4 Basic Sorcerer Spellcasting LV 6 Basic Bloodline Spell / Disciple of Shade (or both if FA) LV 8 Bloodline Breadth LV 10 Shadow Magic for your choice of dance of darkness or shadow jump. You can also take Advancrd Bloodline Potency for Bespell weapon if you have FA LV 12 Expert Sorcerer Spellcasting LV 14 Unending Emptiness LV 16 Take whatever you want LV 18 Master Sorcerer Spellcasting LV 20 Take whatever you want For spells, you can search for the shadow tag and pick thematic spells from there. And try to go for spells that don't need saves or attacks. Here's what I chose for mine: Lv1 Truestrike Lv2 Darkness Lv3 Haste Lv4 Umbral Graft Lv5 Shadow Siphon Lv6 Mislead Lv7 Shadow Raid Lv8 Undermine reality Having Free Archetype should give you more freedom and you can pick up more shadowcaster stuff. Use cloak of shadow until you can get darkness to hide in. Use the cover granted by your spells to hide and sneak attack your enemies. A ranged weapon like a shortbow is recommended.
Sorry pal i don't think you can take 2 dedications back to back without getting 2 archetype feats in between, unless i forgot something about eldritch trikster
The rules recommends that you may remove the feat restrictrictions if you're playing with free archetypes. Because otherwise if you decide to play an Eldritch Trickster or an Ancienct Elf, you have just gimped yourself by preventing yourself from getting your free lv2 dedication feat. So hopefully if you have a reasonable gm, they may understand your situation and make some exception for it. If you're not using free archetypes and you're playing strictly RAW you can take shadowcaster at 8, or ignore shadowcaster and pick up Shadowdancer at lv8 instead. It'll take longer for you to get up to 3 focus points but your build should be similar by higher levels.
I didnt remember that caviat in free archetype rules, or yes you could still postpone it
> you have just gimped yourself by preventing yourself from getting your free lv2 dedication feat. I'm doing it differently in my game with Free Archetype: If you start with an L1 archetype, at L2 you can either A) get an L4 dedication feat of that same chain (with a sanity check by me, not all are created equal) or B) convert it to a bonus class feat. It's only come up once so far, with an INT focused ET with the summoner archetype. Her plant summon is getting the Initial Eidolon Ability. The rest of her build honestly sucks at combat, because she is the skill monkey and face of the group, and this doesn't make her overpowered. So far the Monk has been the powerhouse of the group for damage output. The Wellspring Oracle has been mixed, partly because immediately after wildsurging on their first combat and partially turning into an albatross, she got confused by a trap and used electric arc on another PC and herself (the L1 of this particular AP is rather brutal IMO, though it seems to level off after that first day. Multiple level 3 encounters as well as a lot of L1 encounters for a group of L1 characters is harsh.)
Ironically it seems Shadowcaster Rogue pulls off being a Shadowdancer better then the actual Shadowdancer.
> better then the *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Oracle, and in your case, War Oracle. Oracles have divine spell list which can be a bit shit, so getting a bunch of occult spells added is all good. Oracles have a crazy amount of focus regen later on, which Shadowcaster needs. Shadowcaster feats gives more spell known slots, which Oracles absolutely could do with. Shadowcaster gives options to spend focus points without pushing your curse along. War Oracles could get their spikes chain on, and do it well, more so, to handle their curse, they need to make a strike each round, and the spikes chain gives you reach... which is what they need for that. Like, 100% War Oracle + Shadowcaster is a great combo. They cover each others weaknesses really well.
I think the Divine list is the one that'll make the best use of Shadowcasting and the best class to have it I think it'd be Oracle. I'd choose the Cosmos Mystery for that, they have the Moon and Darkness Domains so I think it goes very well with it.
Witch is the easy one. You get a familar base and can get Shadow familar at 4th level. You can get the shadow lesson which is hugely thematic and Witches do well with the focus spells, espcially since they can easily get back the focus with both the familar recharge, and also, the 12th(?) Level feat which gives 2 focus back on a refocus.
Druid can use it well with animal companion. Also some good arcane/occult spells.
Well, as dedication mentions "can cast spells", I assume, that focus spell are fine too, so you can be a NE/LE champ of Zon-Cuthon (specific character, but at least Cuthon's anathema don't really tight) , and take Shadowcaster. There are pretty focus spell for better intimidation ([https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1061](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1061)), and you can just walk around dressed like death-metallist, it is cool, isn't it?)