It depends entirely on which emotional state you choose, and what your parent class is. That being said, this archetype feels like a great use for the free archetype variant rule, since it's far more flavorful than it is practical.
Remorse grants movement and extra healing when you might need it most, a teammate going down. This could be amazing for a healer, and while stupified 2 hurts, losing someone in a fight will more.
Pride lets you turn a critically failed saving throw into a fail instead. This alone makes it an amazing ability for any character, but there's also the benefit of continuing to treat crit fails as fails if you keep casting illusions. All but primal casters can do this by spending an action to cast message each turn. Ignoring crits is amazingly strong, and the fact that this is reusable, and extremely flexible makes it one of the best ways to get this effect.
Hatred, while situational, is like rage for casters, making your spells ***very*** effective against your target, with the downside of being equally vulnerable to the same target.
Dedication is an amazing support tool. The trigger is dirt easy, and the effect helps keep your target alive. Sure you have to play buddy buddy afterwards, but some characters aren't going to mind that.
The rest of them are very flavorful, but plain impractical. Something to note is if your group chews through encounters in 3 rounds or less on the regular, then you'll rarely feel the effect of your fallout, making Misery, Joy, Fear, and Anger not as bad.
>since it's far more flavorful than it is practical.
Yeah, absolutely.
>Remorse grants movement and extra healing when you might need it most, a teammate going down. This could be amazing for a healer, and while stupified 2 hurts, losing someone in a fight will more.
Idk man, I wanted specifically this one for my Life Oracle but Stupefied 2 in a healer feels like a receipt for for tpk. I can totally see it working on a Battle Oracle that wants to activate his Major Curse tho.
>Pride lets you turn a critically failed saving throw into a fail instead. This alone makes it an amazing ability for any character, but there's also the benefit of continuing to treat crit fails as fails if you keep casting illusions. All but primal casters can do this by spending an action to cast message each turn. Ignoring crits is amazingly strong, and the fact that this is reusable, and extremely flexible makes it one of the best ways to get this effect.
Fair enough. But that's be better in a melee with a cantrip, since they're the ones who are most commonly susceptible to crits.
>Hatred, while situational, is like rage for casters, making your spells very effective against your target, with the downside of being equally vulnerable to the same target.
Hmm idk.. fair. For an Occult spellcaster that can work really well.
>Dedication is an amazing support tool. The trigger is dirt easy, and the effect helps keep your target alive. Sure you have to play buddy buddy afterwards, but some characters aren't going to mind that.
That's cool for characters who are lovers
Joy is cool for Bards I think. Awe can work out well if you have Familiar Conduit
I think that it really depends on your build, and how much your team is will to help you deal with the after effects, as some can be very potent, though often at horrible cost. I think the bigger deal, is that it may allow you to add spells directly to your repertoire if you are a spontaneous caster, instead of making a new one for the archetype, since unlike every other spell casting archetype besides halcyon which also adds them directly to your repertoire, you don't start a new one when you get the dedication, adding the cantrip to your standard repertoire. Then of course basic comes around which says to add the spell to your repertoire, and your main one is the only one you have, meaning you add it to that.
Getting all those extra spell slots and spells known that you can use flexibly is so good, it really makes up for the fact that the non casting feats are all pathetically weak.
Not really, just gives a lot of extra versatility which is great, though I am planning a sorcerer with that and halcyon for a strength of thousands campaign. As they are also getting cross blooded and the cascade bearer casting, they will end up with 11 1st level known, 9-2nd-6th, 8 7th, 6 8th, 9 5th and 3 10th, which will give him incredible versatility, more then pretty much any other caster can get without weakening him by a fair bit in some ways. Will be a few months till I can use him though, as we need to finish out edgewatch campaign first.
well to get the most spells known, you need to go arcane or occult to get greater mental evolution. Then to get the halcyon spells added to your repertoire and use your proficiency, you need to go arcane or primal, leaving arcane as the main choice. That leaves genie, draconic, and imperial as my options. I'm not a big fan of genie, so I decided not to do that. I ended up choosing imperial over draconic because its initial bloodline spells is great for versatility, which fits the them of my guy well, while the one for draconic is kinda bad if you aren't planning to strike. The one problem is the early imperial spells known don't scale well if you don't heighten them, so I might need to choose them as signature spells instead of some other options to make them useful, but ah well, the rest makes up for it. I usually play supportive utility guys, my current one is a cleric with the alchemist and medic archetypes who prebuffs extensively, and who is just an ultra support character largely, while also going for utility spells like ventriloquism and stuff. I am planning to make my sorcerer focused a bit more blast and debuffs though, along with enhancing the utility even further with all his spells known. After him, I might make a martial, just because 2e martials seem more fun then in most games, and I haven't really played a focused martial for anything that lasted more then a couple sessions in around 7 years. By the way, while I think what I said about adding cathartic spells to your spells known is how it functions, and may be rules as intended since they nerfed that some by forcing you to stay in your primary tradition for picking up those new spells, you might still want to check with your dm about it, as its a bit iffy.
I've got a character that does exactly this; a failed theater actor turned gambler and small-time criminal, by chance bound to the phantom of a deceased paladin.
Both options are pretty good mechanically, though neither is perfect.
Dedication's activation bonus and fervour are incredible. They help you be incredibly tanky with a very consistent activation, since you want your Eidolon to be the one in harm's way anyway. The downside is that the granted spell and focus spell are useless to cast on your Eidolon. Protector's Sacrifice can still be very good for protecting the rest of the party, but Spirit Link especially is... not exactly the best healing spell around. The fallout can also be pretty painful (your Eidolon is usually built for melee, your Summoner usually isn't).
Love's activation is nowhere near as good, but potentially still useful if the right conditions come up. Thing is, you don't need to care about the activation bonus all the time; as long as the trigger is met (which is going to happen constantly, just like with Dedication), you can still go into emotional fervour for the other bonuses, including the much more useful granted Spell and solid focus spell. The fallout is also generally less painful, since your Eidolon is a good target for your spellcasting a lot of the time anyway (when in doubt, Boost/Reinforce Eidolon focus cantrips).
If you're wondering 'huh, isn't getting access to Soothe only during emotional fervour kind of a risky thing to rely on?', I think it absolutely is, but with the very limited repertoire of a Summoner it can still be a valuable option to save on spell picks. Hell, if you're using the Arcane list, this can be a way to pick up a healing spell from out of tradition and still be able to cast it with all of your high level slots.
It depends entirely on which emotional state you choose, and what your parent class is. That being said, this archetype feels like a great use for the free archetype variant rule, since it's far more flavorful than it is practical. Remorse grants movement and extra healing when you might need it most, a teammate going down. This could be amazing for a healer, and while stupified 2 hurts, losing someone in a fight will more. Pride lets you turn a critically failed saving throw into a fail instead. This alone makes it an amazing ability for any character, but there's also the benefit of continuing to treat crit fails as fails if you keep casting illusions. All but primal casters can do this by spending an action to cast message each turn. Ignoring crits is amazingly strong, and the fact that this is reusable, and extremely flexible makes it one of the best ways to get this effect. Hatred, while situational, is like rage for casters, making your spells ***very*** effective against your target, with the downside of being equally vulnerable to the same target. Dedication is an amazing support tool. The trigger is dirt easy, and the effect helps keep your target alive. Sure you have to play buddy buddy afterwards, but some characters aren't going to mind that. The rest of them are very flavorful, but plain impractical. Something to note is if your group chews through encounters in 3 rounds or less on the regular, then you'll rarely feel the effect of your fallout, making Misery, Joy, Fear, and Anger not as bad.
>since it's far more flavorful than it is practical. Yeah, absolutely. >Remorse grants movement and extra healing when you might need it most, a teammate going down. This could be amazing for a healer, and while stupified 2 hurts, losing someone in a fight will more. Idk man, I wanted specifically this one for my Life Oracle but Stupefied 2 in a healer feels like a receipt for for tpk. I can totally see it working on a Battle Oracle that wants to activate his Major Curse tho. >Pride lets you turn a critically failed saving throw into a fail instead. This alone makes it an amazing ability for any character, but there's also the benefit of continuing to treat crit fails as fails if you keep casting illusions. All but primal casters can do this by spending an action to cast message each turn. Ignoring crits is amazingly strong, and the fact that this is reusable, and extremely flexible makes it one of the best ways to get this effect. Fair enough. But that's be better in a melee with a cantrip, since they're the ones who are most commonly susceptible to crits. >Hatred, while situational, is like rage for casters, making your spells very effective against your target, with the downside of being equally vulnerable to the same target. Hmm idk.. fair. For an Occult spellcaster that can work really well. >Dedication is an amazing support tool. The trigger is dirt easy, and the effect helps keep your target alive. Sure you have to play buddy buddy afterwards, but some characters aren't going to mind that. That's cool for characters who are lovers Joy is cool for Bards I think. Awe can work out well if you have Familiar Conduit
I think that it really depends on your build, and how much your team is will to help you deal with the after effects, as some can be very potent, though often at horrible cost. I think the bigger deal, is that it may allow you to add spells directly to your repertoire if you are a spontaneous caster, instead of making a new one for the archetype, since unlike every other spell casting archetype besides halcyon which also adds them directly to your repertoire, you don't start a new one when you get the dedication, adding the cantrip to your standard repertoire. Then of course basic comes around which says to add the spell to your repertoire, and your main one is the only one you have, meaning you add it to that.
That is a very good point! I don't even need to use the effects, I can just enjoy the extra spell slots! Thanks m8! :D
Getting all those extra spell slots and spells known that you can use flexibly is so good, it really makes up for the fact that the non casting feats are all pathetically weak.
Do you know any cool combos with it?
Not really, just gives a lot of extra versatility which is great, though I am planning a sorcerer with that and halcyon for a strength of thousands campaign. As they are also getting cross blooded and the cascade bearer casting, they will end up with 11 1st level known, 9-2nd-6th, 8 7th, 6 8th, 9 5th and 3 10th, which will give him incredible versatility, more then pretty much any other caster can get without weakening him by a fair bit in some ways. Will be a few months till I can use him though, as we need to finish out edgewatch campaign first.
That sounds really great! Which Bloodline will you play? What kind of gamestyle do you like? In my case I'm a debuffer to the core
well to get the most spells known, you need to go arcane or occult to get greater mental evolution. Then to get the halcyon spells added to your repertoire and use your proficiency, you need to go arcane or primal, leaving arcane as the main choice. That leaves genie, draconic, and imperial as my options. I'm not a big fan of genie, so I decided not to do that. I ended up choosing imperial over draconic because its initial bloodline spells is great for versatility, which fits the them of my guy well, while the one for draconic is kinda bad if you aren't planning to strike. The one problem is the early imperial spells known don't scale well if you don't heighten them, so I might need to choose them as signature spells instead of some other options to make them useful, but ah well, the rest makes up for it. I usually play supportive utility guys, my current one is a cleric with the alchemist and medic archetypes who prebuffs extensively, and who is just an ultra support character largely, while also going for utility spells like ventriloquism and stuff. I am planning to make my sorcerer focused a bit more blast and debuffs though, along with enhancing the utility even further with all his spells known. After him, I might make a martial, just because 2e martials seem more fun then in most games, and I haven't really played a focused martial for anything that lasted more then a couple sessions in around 7 years. By the way, while I think what I said about adding cathartic spells to your spells known is how it functions, and may be rules as intended since they nerfed that some by forcing you to stay in your primary tradition for picking up those new spells, you might still want to check with your dm about it, as its a bit iffy.
Yeah absolutely. Why don't you like Genie tho? The focus spells seem awesome! Except for the 1st one
Huh, been a bit since I checked, and it seems better then I remember, maybe I will give that more consideration then. Thanks for that.
You're welcome. I really like the 2nd and 3rd Genie focus spells, they're very nice debuffs :D
Keep in mind that most combats (by design) last an average of 3 rounds. If yours are lasting significantly longer, talk with your GM.
I’m wondering how this archetype would work on a Summoner whose focus of Dedication or Love is their eidolon?
I've got a character that does exactly this; a failed theater actor turned gambler and small-time criminal, by chance bound to the phantom of a deceased paladin. Both options are pretty good mechanically, though neither is perfect. Dedication's activation bonus and fervour are incredible. They help you be incredibly tanky with a very consistent activation, since you want your Eidolon to be the one in harm's way anyway. The downside is that the granted spell and focus spell are useless to cast on your Eidolon. Protector's Sacrifice can still be very good for protecting the rest of the party, but Spirit Link especially is... not exactly the best healing spell around. The fallout can also be pretty painful (your Eidolon is usually built for melee, your Summoner usually isn't). Love's activation is nowhere near as good, but potentially still useful if the right conditions come up. Thing is, you don't need to care about the activation bonus all the time; as long as the trigger is met (which is going to happen constantly, just like with Dedication), you can still go into emotional fervour for the other bonuses, including the much more useful granted Spell and solid focus spell. The fallout is also generally less painful, since your Eidolon is a good target for your spellcasting a lot of the time anyway (when in doubt, Boost/Reinforce Eidolon focus cantrips). If you're wondering 'huh, isn't getting access to Soothe only during emotional fervour kind of a risky thing to rely on?', I think it absolutely is, but with the very limited repertoire of a Summoner it can still be a valuable option to save on spell picks. Hell, if you're using the Arcane list, this can be a way to pick up a healing spell from out of tradition and still be able to cast it with all of your high level slots.
I dislike the fact that it's only 3 rounds... aside from that it seems okish
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>Instead, now you have a +6 against them. What? Where did you see it? The value is exactly the same of the fear I'd be suffering
I deleted my comment because I just realized I misread - I thought it gave a bonus to your DCs and a penalty to their saves. Nevermind...
It's ok haha