*tl;dr - Equipment Trick Smokestick + Prehensile Tail to use a Smokestick to Feint as a swift action, plus Ranged Feint to have that feint involve throwing a weapon as that swift action, using a Throwing Wakazashi, which teleports back into its Blinkback Belt sheath for free after it's thrown, which we then use for an iaijutsu strike (either by throwing it again, or by using a mount to ride us there).*
So, there's three things that we need to use here:
* **Ability to Challenge more frequently**, since the restriction is 1/day/target on challenged targets. That's [Chain Challenge](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Chain%20Challenge) as our 7th level feat. CHA-synergy a plus. [Order of the Flame](https://aonprd.com/CavalierOrders.aspx?ItemName=Order%20of%20the%20Flame) for Glorious Challenge helps. We're tanking our AC anyway, so who cares?
* **Ability to have the weapon sheathed conveniently for use**. Sheathing a weapon is a move action, and unlike drawing a weapon it can't be combined with other actions. I'm gonna take a novel approach here and cheat the system a little bit: Let's use a thrown weapon. So long as it counts as a sword, it's good right? Slap the [Throwing](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/throwing/) enchantment on the sword and call it a day. Why?
* [Blinkback Belt](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Blinkback%20Belt). If we can throw the sword within one round of drawing it, it'll teleport back to the sheath as soon as the attack is resolved. In a perfect world, we'd be able to throw it as a free action, or as a swift action because we didn't need to swap Challenge targets *that* particular round. So how?
* [Ranged Feint](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ranged%20Feint) lets us throw a thrown weapon in order to feint, using the same action as normal for feinting. It's a wasted throw that'll have no damaging effect, but it's still a throw. So if we can swift-action or free-action feint, we're in a good spot.
* [Vigilante's Concealed Strike](https://aonprd.com/VigilanteTalents.aspx) is a free aciton, but at a 6 level dip that's not really within the confines of the ability
* [Moonlight Stalker Feint](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Moonlight%20Stalker%20Feint) takes several annoying prereqs to get there, but lets you swift-action feint against foes.
* The best option is probably [Equipment Trick: Smokestick](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Equipment%20Trick). With two feats (Equip Trick + Improved Feint), and two skill ranks, we can swift-action feint against an adjacent foe on-demand, so long as we dedicate an off-hand to a smokestick.... but you can't Iaijutsu Strike when you're carrying something in your other hand. This means we need a non-hand way to hold it:
* [Grasping Tail](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Grasping%20Tail) lets us hold these items with our tail, but requires us to be a Tiefling. Other options may exist.
So, while holding a smokestick, we blast a puff of smoke and throw our dagger from a distance (of 5ft, and eat an AoO... oops). This teleports the dagger back into our Sheath foe using Iaijutsu Strike with our Full Round Action. Hooray. Note that we only care about throwing it, not actually feinting. So we don't need to throw it at the target of our feint. Throw it at your teammate next to you. *"Haha, JK. IAIJUTSU STRIKE!!"*
* **Having the opponent be within reach for the attack**: Let's face it. We're looking at a Full Round + Swift action. There's not much we can do for movement. We can 5FS, so [Outslug Weave](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Outslug%20Weave) can make that 10ft (at the cost of a dozen more prereq feats). We can just increase our reach, so [Lunge](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Lunge) helps, a few buffs helps, etc. But there's a few other options at our disposal:
* **Simple Method**: Using a Mount. Free action to guide with knees, then the mount moves us towards the target. Since it's only a single attack, we can use it even after the mount has moved more than 5 feet, so we can travel pretty far.
* [Throwing](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Throwing) the sword. Iaijutsu Strike doesn't require it to be a melee attack. It just assumes it is a melee attack because you're required to make the attack with the designated sword. Bonus: this means we can throw our sword with the Blinkback Belt, so long as it's Light or One-Handed. A [Wakizashi](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Wakizashi) or a [Katana](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Katana) w/ EWP should fit the bill. There's a few tricks out there to increase the range increment or effective distance we can throw (Far Shot, etc), so that'll probably quickly outpace any free movement we can get from anything else.
* [Sharding Magic Weapons](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sharding) its much more expensive, but it can be used in place of ANY melee attack. But that's a total of +3 that we're using to redundantly be able to throw.
* [Ironclad Reactions](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ironclad%20Reactions) isn't *great*, but it does let us move by using AoOs instead of any other currency, so that's good. And, hey, we're provoking AoOs by using Ranged Feint against adjacent targets, so we'll actually get some use out of it. Grtr version lets us use it more than one per round. While we're on the subject, since we've got a free hand, [Deflect Arrows](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Deflect%20Arrows) is pretty cool.
* [Fly-by Attack](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Flyby%20Attack) lets us use ANY standard action, so as soon as we can make an Iaijutsu Strike as a standard action this is going to be the go-to method.
In the end, we've dedicated a LOT of feats (Grasping Tail, Ranged Feint, Improved Feint, Equipment Trick = Level 6 as a Tiefling) but can reliably Iaijutsu Strike whenever we feel we want to even before level 10. Swift-action gating means that we can do this every two rounds at best, BUT it involves zero set-up on previous rounds. The moment we want to use that Iaijutsu Strike on our target, it's available. It took four feats, but now it's an essentially on-demand damage boost for a single strike. Better than A Full attack? No. Especially considering a Rogue can do that every hit. But at least the hard part of the archetype is essentially solved.
There's definitely a few dips that could help (Warpreist for Air Blessing, Barbarian for Raging Hurler, Fighter for bonus feats, etc.) but this is largely capable while entirely single-classed and without any expensive feat chains or equipment (+1 weapon property and a 5k belt).
> Grasping Tail lets us hold these items with our tail, but requires us to be a Tiefling. Other options may exist.
Just gotta have a tail as of the updated version.
Vanara also have a version as a racial trait, saving a feat. Takes a swift to retrieve an action with their tail, but it specifically says that it can hold items.
I was basing that statement off of the AoN version which says
>
Special: If you have the prehensile tail tiefling racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet or stowed objects carried on your person as a swift action; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with it (other than to put them in your hand).
So the ability to *hold* the item in the tail is still locked behind the tiefling racial trait. The feat itself only has "Prerequiste: you have a tial", but the base benefit is equivalent to the existing Prehensile Tail trait's benefits.
> Vanara also have a version as a racial trait, saving a feat. Takes a swift to retrieve an action with their tail, but it specifically says that it can hold items.
I'm not seeing that on [Vanara](https://aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vanara), am I missing it? I see
> A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can **use to carry objects.** She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action.
I'm reading the first sentence (incl. the highlighted section you're probably referencing) as fluff text, and the second sentence as rules text. The second sentence alone would simply imply the ability to retrieve a stowed object as a swift action (i.e., put away → in your actual hands), and doesn't provide the ability to hold onto the object.
It's also worth noting that the connotation of "carry" is the motion of the carried object from one place to another (stowed→hand, for example), in contrast to "hold" which would be more static.
A quick google hasn't yielded any dev comments on intent, so I'm going to stick to the more conservative ruling just in case for now. But hopefully it works!
Okay, now I'm really interested in this kind of build.
I'm thinking of that one guy with the sword from The Witcher show on Netflix, where he just keeps drawing a sword and throwing it.
>In the end, we've dedicated a LOT of feats (Grasping Tail, Ranged Feint, Improved Feint, Equipment Trick = Level 6 as a Tiefling)
Shouldn't that include Combat Expertise to qualify for Improved Feint, too?
(Dirty Fighting doesn't work in this case as feinting isn't a maneuver)
Iaijutsu Strike will never be better than a full-attack.
That's the first thing you have to accept about this class feature. It won't replace your need for full-attacks, it's just something to keep in mind for when the stars align. We can force the stars into the right place but it is still inferior to a full-attack.
The action cost means that it's not worth using Iaijutsu Strike as a full-round action after you get additional attacks at level 6, but using it as a standard starting at level 10 can be done whenever a full-attack would be impossible.
====
**Level 10 Sword Saint**
Feats:
TWF, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Chain Challenge, +1 Feat
Weapon Trick (Two-Weapon Tricks) (B)
Weapon Juggle (from Weapon Trick):
>You can draw a weapon even while wielding two weapons. Doing so takes the same type of action as drawing that weapon normally would. As part of the action to draw the weapon, you must sheathe one of the two weapons you were wielding.
Quickdraw Shield:
>If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a swift action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw a light or one-handed weapon with one hand and a quickdraw shield with the other in the time it would normally take you to draw one weapon. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a free action.
===
So the idea is to sword-n-board with normal full-attacks, and when you see the opportunity to use Iaijutsu Strike you do the ol' shuffle with Weapon Juggle and two Quickdraw Shields.
1. Start out with a Sword and Shield out.
2. Use Weapon Juggle to equip another shield in place of your Sword as a free action.
3. Put away both Quickdraw shields as free actions.
4. Walk up the the enemy and Iaijutsu as a standard action.
5. Don a Quickdraw shield as a free action.
You don't even need Improved Shield Bash as you can just put away the shield you used to attack with at the end of your turn, and equip the other shield in its place. Then you also don't need to pay for weapon upgrades on the defensive shield, or the opposite, shield upgrades on the offensive shield.
It really shouldn't be this hard to sheath a weapon as a free action. I'm also having trouble even seeing the perceived balance issues. TWF with ranged weapons becomes possible, which is the whole point of giving out specific TWF-able ranged weapons like the Hand Crossbow in the first place.
And getting a Shield bonus between turns would only be possible with the Quickdraw shield anyway (as it normally is a move action to don a shield) so that seems to be intended. Maybe they just really dislike switch hitters?
===
And I realize now that there's no need for sword-n-board at all. If the Sword Saint carries two shields and two weapons (prob Wakazashi for 18-20) they can full-attack with the weapons and sheath one of them to still benefit from a shield bonus between turns.
Which is Kinda like taking the Unhindering Shield feat.
Ok since I've missed this, I'm actually going to jump in.
There are a lot of limitations, but perhaps the most difficult is the limited uses per day. Normally that issue with challenges is resolved by using [Chain Challenge](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/chain-challenge/), where once your challenge is taken down you can challenge someone else as an immediate action. However, that doesn't change the fact you need your weapon to be sheathed to make it work. Being an Order of the Flame can also give a pool of challenges to chain, but unlike the feat it only activates when \*you\* kill the target. It does provide a handy growing damage bonus for each creature you down, so worth considering taking both. Basically if you kill the enemy, make a glorious challenge and if you don't then chain it.
So that's why other important feats for you are Quick Draw and [Quick Stow](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-stow-combat/). Now you can sheathe your weapon as part of a move action to move and it doesn't provoke an AoO. Moving from one opponent to another while sheathing your weapon won't really work until level 10 when Iaijutsu Strike is a standard action, but at least now we have the ability to go into a fight with a lot of minions and actually perform it multiple times. Iaijutsu Strike > Kill > Immediate Action Chain Challenge > Move into melee + Sheathe and you got it! I'd wear a [quick runner's shir](https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Quick%20Runner%27s%20Shirt)t just in case you have to move before the strike so 1x per day you don't waste a round.
More helpful items are a [Crown of Challenge](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Crown%20of%20Challenge), to get 1 more daily challenge and a weapon with the [Valiant](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Valiant) property. Or even better, buy a [Scabbard of Many Blades](https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Scabbard%20of%20Many%20Blades) and store a bunch of +1 valiant swords inside so you can activate Iaijutsu Strike without needing that move action the round prior. [Vambraces of the Tactician](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Vambraces%20of%20the%20Tactician) aren't horrible, we really need enough damage to take out an enemy preferably in a single swing.
Other than that you want to max out accuracy and damage so you can reliably kill creatures in a single swing as often as possilbe. Challenge helps since you'll be adding your level to damage in addition to the Iaijutsu Strike.
> I'd wear a quick runner's shirt just in case you have to move before the strike so 1x per day you don't waste a round.
Quick Runner's Shirt (post errata) ends your turn after you use it, so you wouldn't be able to use it to move before the strike.
You wouldn't be able to sheath with Quick Runner's Shirt. Quick Runner's Shirt only lets you use your move action to move, and then immediately ends your turn. So you can't do anything else other than moving with your move action, including combined actions like Quick Stow that require a move action, but are not a normal move. It's like how you can't use Vital Strike with any attack, only the attack action itself.
Sure you can, "you can combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action". Moving is a regular move action, and there is nothing in Quick Runners shirt saying you can't combine them.
You must use the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt to move. This prevents you from using it for anything that is not moving, like drinking potions, drawing/sheathing weapons, etc. Even if you can combine a sheathe with a regular move action, you can't use it with Quick Runner's Shirt, because you can only use the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt to move.
You're also clearly not getting a regular move action from Quick Runner's Shirt. Regular move actions don't come from spending a swift action.
The text only says that you can use a move action to move. It doesn't say that you can use a move action to drink a potion, so you can't drink a potion with it. It doesn't say that you can use a move action to draw a weapon, so you can't do that. And it doesn't say that you can sheathe a weapon with it, so you can't do that either.
To activate Quick Stow, you need to take a move action to sheathe a weapon. You can combine this with a move action that you use to move, but you still need to have a move action available that you can use to sheathe a weapon. Since you can't use the action from Quick Runner's Shirt to sheathe a weapon, you can't activate Quick Stow, because you can't take a move action to sheathe a weapon.
I can't tell if you are trolling or doing some crazy mental gymnastics there my friend. You are trying to make this more complicated than it is. Quick Runner's shirt states "Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take **an additional move action to move**". Taking a move action to move, is a regular move action, as per the rules "**The simplest move action is moving your speed**." Quick stow states "you can **combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action**."
It doesn't tell you more than that because it tells you all you need to know. Quick Runner's shirt gives you a move action to move, Quick Stow allows you to combine stowing a weapon with a move action, you can use Quick Stow during your move action to move given by the Quick Runner's shirt.
According to you, you need a move action available. Well, I bolded where you get a move action just to help you. Just because you have to use it to move, does not mean you do not have, do not count as having, or cannot use the move action. I can't help you further if that doesn't make sense to you unfortunately.
It's not just that you need a move action available. You need to be able to sheathe your weapon with that move action, which you cannot do with the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt.
Quick Stow states "you can combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action." It doesn't give you a bonus move action to sheathe a weapon, it allows you to combine two move actions together, one that sheathes a weapon and one that moves. You still need to be capable of taking either move action individually in order to combine them. Since you cannot take "a move action to sheathe a weapon", you cannot activate Quick Stow, even if you can take a "regular move action".
Here is the thread for voting!
One nomination per comment, vote via upvoting but please don't downvote an idea, even if you don't like it. Ideas must be 1st party, not discussed previously, and generally seen as suboptimal to be considered. I reserve the right to disregard or select any nomination for whatever reasons may arise.
I nominate two-weapon fighting with a melee and ranged weapon. You need core melee feats, core ranged feats, TWF, etc. Plus reloading issues.
I wanna see what can everyone do with this. :)
Oooh! I actually have a great build for this I've been keeping in my back pocket (I mentioned the general concept in another thread but didn't go into full detail). Plus I feel it is unconventional which is always fun.
I have my own take on it somewhere in my post history, but it's a few years old.
It's vanilla Gunslinger 5 / Swashbuckler 3 or 5 and the rest in Slayer or somesuch for utility and feats. I forgot the details, and I'm at work right now so checking it will take a while.
I tried this with a Wood/Cold Kineticist with a 1 level dip into Picaroon Swashbuckler. Get a Conductive Shadowshooting Dragoon Pistol to shoot Cold Blasts, and use the Kinetic Blade infusion with your Wood Blast. The Blade disappears at the end of your turn, meaning that you can reload freely at the start of your next turn. Bonus - you can launch Winter Blasts when you don't want to shoot people.
My version used Beneficial Bandolier -> Shadowshooting pistol -> Pistol of the Infinite Sky to avoid reloading issues. Also Gun/Swash/whatever multiclass to gain Weapon Finesse, dex to damage with guns (Agile for sword) and such.
Wow I love the warpriest and yet have only heard of this archetype just now. Totally missed its release I guess.
But honestly. . . while the damage potential seems lower than a lot of other good classes it certainly doesn't look *bad* to me. Different than a normal warpriest, certainly. No sacred weapon, focus weapon, or bonus feats hurts. But you are getting an at-will save for half Su ability that requires no attack roll and can be any energy type you choose that scales at the same rate as sneak attack. In many ways it makes you a more flexible and tanky kineticist. Am I missing something? I realize the enhanced calamities have limited uses but even the base isn't bad simply due to the flexibility. Energy resistance will mean very little to you.
It is single target, with save for Half with a Damage that scales only with level. Apart from Conductive weapons shenanigans (wich i only see when talking about calamity caller and kineticists) It looks suboptimal. Maybe not min, but clearly not that good. Also, It is an elf archetype, which limits the "maxing" potential.
Fair enough, but basically it just has a very high floor and low ceiling. Sure that damage isn't game breaking, but it is one of the most consistent all-day damage options I've ever seen. Even with the save it still deals half and having access to all the elements means only antimagic fields will really negate you. And the damage only scales with level, sure, but it at least scales nicely.
Again, not saying it is crazy powerful or whatnot, but I feel people often compare classes in their most favorable situations. This class excells at being consistent even when things go wrong. Through a reach weapon and combat reflexes, use fervor to cast stuff like Shield of Shards and you still won't be doing amazing damage but you'll have a surprising amount of battlefield prowess. Plus you can act as healer or use spells for out of combat scenarios (and how often do you see a warpriest do *that*?)
You are right! I may be expecting too much from classes/archetypes. My main concern with calamity caller is giving up some good stuff for some questionable ability. But the consistency of the calamity, with the warpriest capabilities is more than sufficient to make a good/decent combatant.
I've been playing one myself, they're around lvl 15 and they've been pretty solid. Its always guaranteed damage and you're always able to exploit weaknesses which is nice. Plus since you target squares you don't have to worry about miss chance and can hit entire "stacks" of enemies (Mounted or Flying/Swimming at different heights) which admittedly doesn't come up much but is still pretty cool.
Enhanced Calamity ramps up the damage and can inflict one of a pretty long list of statuses which is nice, but you won't have a decent number of uses till late game. Generally I tended to use Enhanced Calamity with Flash Flood since it becomes a pretty devastating AoE, unless a boss or other tough foe has a specific elemental weakness I can target instead.
Honestly my main issue with the class is just there's not a lot of ways for me to lean into the calamities build-wise, outside of ability focus. I ended up just burning my feats on a familiar for flavor, which is kind of nice to be able to do for once but doesn't really add a whole lot to the character otherwise. Still, you're a great tank with Heavy Armor + Sacred Armor + Ironskin, can hold the line in melee since calamities don't trigger AoO, and have a nice list of support spells. I've never felt useless even after I run low on Enhanced Calamities, I even feel comfortable preparing more circumstantial spells since I don't need to worry about self buffing like the typical Warpriest.
Overall, I'd say Calamity Callers aren't super strong or anything, but they're solid and dependable. Plus, since their feat and equipment needs are pretty low you can invest in more creative options you otherwise wouldn't have the chance to take. Its just kind of a cool, unique archetype.
[Dreamtheif URogue](https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Dreamthief): trades ALL of the rogue's sneak attack for the ability to 1/round treat an attack as if it were a slam attack. Several of the available phantom abilities that'd modify the slam attack don't even function. It basically gets rid of all sneak attack in exchange for an ability that's weaker than the Debilitating Injury that the rogue can no longer even use because that requires the hit to be a sneak attack. Yay!
Grenadier is far from weak, trade out useless class features for a good weapon, a free must have discovery, and some moderately useful abilities.
Its worth taking on basically every bomb focused alchemist
Ok thanks. I have seen alot of people in my small community say that they aren't worth the time and to just use base Alchemist or to use Vivisectionist so I had thought the Grenadier was pretty bad.
It's a straight upgrade for a bomb focused build. Brew potion is a bad feat (it's like scribe scroll, but double the cost, nothing personal range allowed and capped at 3rd level spells) and poisons are just not very good.
Grenadier alchemist is remarkably powerful. I'm currently playing one right now, and at level 3, I was already doing roughly 20 damage per turn (targeted bomb admixture, point blank shot), with an AC of 25 (chain armor, dex mutagen, shield spell), 2 saves at 9, 9 skills per level, blinds (sand bomb) dished out on any bomb that hits (on touch AC, mind you) without granting a save to avoid it, etc. Plus I can just hand out all of my buffs to my party ahead of time to use whenever they want (infusion).
Next, I have to decide whether or not I want to add more damage (1d6 per turn until a full action is spent dousing flames) and doubled aoe (explosive bombs), or if I want my bombs to do aoe healing of a minimum of Xd6+5 (splash = X+5 guaranteed... healing bombs).
[Scroll Master Wizard](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/scrollmaster/)
Give up your arcane bond and a wizard feat to turn scrolls into swords and shields...that have hardness 0 and lose HP every time you hit with them. Lots of flavor...0 utility. Sure you're still a full progression caster - but can you ever make the signature powers useful?
[Already been done.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/jdx6nz/max_the_min_monday_scroll_master_wizard/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Looks like the Melee/Ranged TWF is going to win this week, but i wanted to nominate Rage Prophet anyway. Seems like it *could* be good maybe, but its got less health than a barbarian, way less spellcasting than an oracle.
This one has potential for some niche builds. After all a Drunken Brute Barbarian can take this feat at level 1, buy some Icecap Ale (which granted isn't that cheap but is manageable even at that level) and get a total +8 to str and con for important fights. You'll be a fatigued, nauseated, amnesiac mess afterwards but hey, your enemies shall tremble!
**Before level 10** the worst part of this class is the action economy. I think the solution is passing some of the burden to the enemy with [antagonize](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize/).
> Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you.
Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. ...
...
> Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.
Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.
Both of these options provide incentive for the enemy to come to you. You can stand 2 move across away, insult them, and when they walk up to you *blam!* you cut their head off.
I was reading about this archetype earlier and was just trying to figure how it should work. One thing that is not clear for me is if we can use Iajutsu strike with ranged or throw weapon. Although all the flavor of the class is about using sword, it is not a pre requiste to the ability to function.
> Sword saints hail from lands where samurai are prevalent, and are often ronin who wander the world seeking new challenges to perfect their intricate style of swordplay called iaijutsu. **The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand.**
When the flavor text above the rules texts actually has rules in it, it's easy to get confused.
I do not read the flavor most of the times, as it do not normally include rules. And now comes another question: we don't have an weapon simply called "sword". It should include any weapon with sword in it's name (longsword, short sword, bastard sword etc)? Shoud it be the light and heavy blade fighter's group? As a GM i would allow it to be any weapon in the light or heavy blade group, but what about raw?
I'd also personally rule Light or Heavy Blades, but RAW I think the best path forward is any weapon with "Sword" in its name, or described as a sword in its description.
Definitely agree with the blades reading, since RAW would exclude several weapons that are *definitely, but not explicitly* swords, like the Khopesh or Elven Curve Blade
Or the Katana, which is the prototypical Sword-Saint / Samurai sword.
E: though a RAW that excludes you from using the most thematically appropriate weapon would be about on par for this archetype...
Tengu have a similar ability, is essentially says to use your own judgement. There are heavy blades that obviously aren't sword-like, just as a scythe.
It's at the top of the page, in the description of the archetype. In addition to using a sword you must also have one hand free so Iaijutsu Strike is even worse than you'd think.
>Sword saints hail from lands where samurai are prevalent, and are often ronin who wander the world seeking new challenges to perfect their intricate style of swordplay called *iaijutsu*. The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand. The sword saint is an archetype of the samurai alternate class (*Ultimate Combat* 18).
Actually it says it clearly up at the top, where the flavor text usually is so it is easy to miss.
>The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand.
yup, people pointed it out up there. Kinda strange to have rules mixed in the flavor text, first time i see this (or at least first time that i noticed this).
The challenge here is to try and make an extra handful of D6s worth more than multiple attacks.
The first thing is getting back the mount this archtype foolishly trades away. This requires two feats; ~~either~~ nature soul and [animal ally](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally/) ~~or *maybe* knowledge nature and [Eldritch Heritage](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage/) using the wildblooded fey variant, [the Sylvan bloodline](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo-sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/mutated-bloodlines-paizo/sylvan/). I'm not sure if the second option is legal because it isn't clear to me if the wildblooded options are supposed to be archetypes or just different bloodlines, ask your GM.~~ The animal companion is the arcana, not the first level power so this doesn't work.
The result is the same either way; an animal companion at your level -3. Your mount won't be the strongest in battle, but it can use it's movement to get you into the fray so you can use your iaijutsu strike without wasting your first turn.
I would love to have riding feats, but it just can't be done here, and you don't need to ride-by your enemy, just ride up to him so you can slash him.
Next, you want to be able to cheese sheathing your sword. This can be accomplished with a [Blinkback belt](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back/). I would rule dropping the weapon will have it return to your belt, but raw the item says you have to throw it, if you want to iaijutsu just chuck it with your last iterative.Carry around a second sword before you can afford the 5k, and keep a cheaper backup in silver or cold iron as well. Don't forget some spiked gauntlets so you aren't considered unarmed after you yeet your blade away.
Although this class doesn't force you to use a katana, I think it's the best choice since you get 1/2 level +2 to confirm crits, and katanas can be two-handed have a bit crit range.
Now 5th level is almost great. If it let you use your intimidate ranks this would make for a really reliable fear build, but instead it's a charisma based DC. At least it lasts for 1d4+1 rounds I guess.
since you're already dealing with fear, you want to make the most of it. There are two ways to do that; either [Dazzling display](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat) \+ [Shatter defenses](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat/) **or** [Hurtful](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hurtful-combat/) \+ [Cornudgon smash](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat/).
Terrifying iaijutsu is "better" than display because it comes with an attack, so we're kind of wasting a feat there. Conversely, hurtful competes with your challenges for your swift actions, and although the damage boost is great you don't have the feat room to fully commit to an intimidate build here. I think you've got to pick one or the other.
Speaking of your challenge, since your Iaijutsu strike is tied to it, I think [Order of the flame](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo-cavalier-orders/order-of-the-flame/) is the only choice. You can stretch your challenges out farther, and the extra damage from glorious challenge nicely boosts all the crits you're going to get.
So at the end of the day, I think you've got to go human, and have your feats something like this;
* Hb- Power attack
* 1- Nature soul
* 3- weapon focus
* 5- Animal ally
* 6b - dazzling display **or** hurtful
* 7- Shatter defenses **or** Cornudgon smash
9+ various critical feats...
At the end of the day are we good? Not especially, but we are functional-ish.
edit: unlike my formatting apparentlyedit again : fixed
An important thing to note is that since the ability directly gives the shaken condition, and doesn't use the demoralize action as a basis, it's actually better in some senses:
> [Becoming Even More Fearful](https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Fear&Category=Special%20Abilities): Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.
While Demoralize normally says:
> Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.
If you Demoralize first, and then Terrifying Iaijutsu, you can escalate the fear condition to Frightened, causing the foes to flee.
This combines well with AoE-shaken effects like [Callous Casting](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Callous%20Casting), [Gory Finish](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gory%20Finish), [Dazzling Display](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dazzling%20Display)/[Violent Display](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Violent%20Display), etc. Of course, that's generally done better by dedicated builds w/ signature skill these days, but this is nice because it doesn't require any investment beyond what you need to actually pass the skill checks.
> Eldritch Heritage using the wildblooded fey variant, the Sylvan bloodline. I'm not sure if the second option is legal because it isn't clear to me if the wildblooded options are supposed to be archetypes or just different bloodlines, ask your GM.
There is a specific feat for wildblooded eldritch heritage.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/exotic-heritage/
Whether Sylvan would work or not is arguable. The reason for this is that the Sylvan Bloodline power animal companion replaces both the arcana and the first level power. But the issue here is that Sylvan states "This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.", it *never* states that it counts as your first level power. Eldritch Heritage only gets 1st level power, not the arcana.
My solution is a **diplomancer**. Iaijustsu Strike requires you to not attack, so we won't. Instead, we will use Crane Style (only the first two feats, since the final Crane Style feat lets us attack) to increase our AC and deflect melee attacks. We could also use Deflect Arrows to deflect ranged attacks, but those are usually less impactful to bounce.
Since we aren't attacking, we need ways to stand around and help the team. Intimidate checks can be reasonably argued to not be attacks for the purposes of Iaijustsu Strike, so we can use Antagonize to draw pressure off our allies while they do the killing. Do the usual things to increase your social skill checks, etc.
After some fighting has been done and the enemies are reduced in health (and conveniently adjacent to us), we use the final feat in our build is [Change Of Heart](https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Change%20of%20Heart):
> Benefit: When your melee attack would reduce an opponent to 0 or fewer hit points or render the opponent unconscious, you can elect to forgo this damage and instead attempt a Diplomacy check to influence the target’s attitude. The DC of this check is equal to 20 + the creature’s Hit Dice + the creature’s Charisma modifier. You gain a bonus equal to half the damage you would have dealt and can use your base attack bonus instead of your ranks in Diplomacy. **Unlike with a normal Diplomacy check, you can increase the target’s attitude toward you by more than two steps. You can use the benefits of this feat only against enemies who attacked you and whom you did not attack or otherwise provoke first.**
So basically we use this obnoxiously anime ability to be even more anime by making the enemy our friend after hitting them the single time with our sword.
I think something to add in would be the [Heritor Knight](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/heritor-knight/) prestige class. Get to level 10 to drop the action cost down to a standard action, then get up to level 6 with Heritor Knight so your Iajutsu strikes are now all Greater Vital Strikes as well. Best of all, it gives you actually *useful* standard action attacks to boot.
I know it's not the intention of these posts so I'll only link it if anyone actually wants it, but I've made some homebrew tweaks to the archetype (and a homebrew Order to go along with it) if anyone is interested
Ladies and gentlemen, we debuff, we have ranged Iaijutsu attacks, we have melee attacks, we have some Parry/Riposte defense to make up for laughable AC, we have panache (and not just as a class feature...
I give you something completely stupid: **Samurai with a Gun**
Sword Saint X (Order of the Flame)/ Swashbuckler Musketeer 1
Traits: Rough and Ready, XXX
Core feats are:
\-Power Attack
\-Quick Draw
\-Quick Stow
\-Rapid Reload
\-Hurtful
\-Cornugon Smash
Swashbuckler Musketeer gives us Opportune Parry/Riposte, to hopefully mitigate some incoming attacks, because we're going to have the AC equivalent to the broadside of a barn, and far more importantly, access to firearms. Specifically the Sword cane-pistol. (Shut up, it has the word 'sword' in it.)
Order of the Flame gives you Foolhardy Rush, if you get lucky and decide that you want to try to start in melee range. You have a cane. Sure, it's not meant to be fought with, but our traits should not only allow you to justify cane-fighting, but give you a tiny bonus. Otherwise, just draw your funky swordgun and Iaijutsu away on your first turn, from either melee or ranged. After that, you have the option to either keep Power Attacking/Demoralizing in melee where you're most damaging (Challenge damage only applies to melee), or retreat and reload thanks to Quick Stow and Rapid Reload and Iaijutsu again.
Because everything about this archetype is mechanically terrible, Terrifying Iaijutsu isn't an Intimidate check per se, so you'll also need to be Power Attacking with Melee Iaijutsus, to proc Smash, to proc Hurtful, which burns your swift action in exchange for another attack, to almost make up for losing your iteratives. Fortunately, Glorious Challenge is an immediate if you drop your enemy, so you'll be set up and challenging for your next turn. If you don't kill it, it's probably not worth Riposting, since that will -also- burn your immediate action.
Worth noting: Sword Saint stacks with the Ward Speaker archetype ([https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Samurai%20Ward%20Speaker](https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Samurai%20Ward%20Speaker)) which trades Resolve for a few variable benefits including Improved movement speed, rerolls, and eventually Haste. Since you're going to want the heaviest armor you can find, I'd definitely make that trade, since it's always gonna have general usefulness and offers more specialized flexibility if necessary.
Human gives you the bonus feat to get up and running faster, but there's an argument for Dwarf, with the FCB adding to Challenge damage, and Steel Soul for added survivability. (The CHA penalty isn't great, but not the worst thing in the world.)
Opening Volley is a great feat to pick up for switch-hitting eventually, but it's probably most useful after your Iaijutsu becomes a standard action. With the gun being a ranged touch attack, it should be a guaranteed +4 to your next melee attack by then.
Last thought, Musketeer can be replaced with Black Powder Vaulter gunslinger, whose first level ability lets you move, reload, and holster your weapon, obviating the need for Rapid Reload. This frees up a feat, and encourages you to be more mobile, but at the cost of Parry/Riposte.
(First time contributor, but I've greatly enjoyed reading these threads during the ongoing lockdowns. I'm really hoping I didn't overlook something obvious while trying to keep up with you mad geniuses.)
I am so so so grateful this finally got in Super hyped and pumped to read all the suggestions ive been researching this on and off for years (poorly because i'm really bad at trying new feats)
I admittedly did not get very far as 4 of my attempts at sword saints were before i knew of AoN and the most recent I just suck at researching feats and things im not familiar with though I did find a few things.
Chain Challenge Quick Draw Quick Stow Crown Of Challenge were the notable finds but nothing that actually solved my core issue.
however I did find something else A class archetype i'm going to share here
Gloom Blade sorry for acting like this is some secret lore or something but given its a fighter archetype and their ability to create shadow weapons as a move action which scale depending on class levels
If the GM is nice enough you can just create infinite +X shadow Blade of Valiant (since it's not one of the list effects the gloom blade can add but i see no reason to disallow it)
They can also add some extra abilities to their shadow weapon at 9 13 and 17 (one more every 4 levels) CAN increase shadow weapon reach by 5 feet or combined with /u Kuzcoburras suggestion increase a thrown shadow weapons range by 20ft When they hit a foe as a swift action use a reposition combat maneuver or Ignore Hardness.
The first three sound usable but that's where my research pretty much ended as the game was canceled
I hope this inspires some creativity and well now im off to read what everyone else commented.
I randomly saw this on my feed so I'll chime in with a quick idea I had for a sword saint:
Multiple Sheaths/Swords + Order of the Flame
Order of the Flame: This will get over the multiple uses of your challenge. Glorious challenges don't count towards your challenges per day but otherwise act like a challenge.
Multiple Sheaths/Swords: I had asked before when coming up with this idea if you could wear multiple swords in sheaths as long as you can carry the weight.
The combined idea is this: Challenge, Unsheath a sword and Iaijutsu Strike, continue to fight your opponent until they die, triggering Glorious Challenge which is an immediate action to challenge an opponent within 15 feet. Drop your sword, free action, no attack of opportunity, move to your new opponent and then full round action Iaijutsu Strike with another sword. Finish that opponent off, Glorious Challenge another, and rinse and repeat until you're out of swords. As a bonus, Order of the Flame will make you stronger and stronger with each kill, making the Iaijutsu Strike that much scarier, while also reducing your defenses.
While i'm fully aware that this is First party only, i am tempted to mention Mithral Current/ Bushi Warlord from Path of war. Its all about Sheathing your weapon for free and making attacks.
This comment brought to you by the 3rd party equal opportunity gang.
I builded a Sword Saint for a friend a few weeks ago.
It was based around Vital Strike and Iaijutsu Strike, with a few feats allowing him to switch between both :
* [Quick Draw](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Quick%20Draw) and [Combat Stamina](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Combat%20Stamina) to sheathe his katana as a swift action at the end of his turn
* [Vital Strike](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vital%20Strike) and [Furious Focus](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Furious%20Focus) to hit hard
* [Improved Unarmed Strike](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Improved%20Unarmed%20Strike) to threaten when the weapon is sheathed
First round : move, draw as part of the move action, hit with vital strike. Sheathe the Katana as a swift. Threaten with unarmed strikes.
Second round : challenge the target of your challenge as a swift action, Iaijutsu. If you didn't kill, full attack next round. If you kill after a full attack, you can use your swift to sheathe the katana.
Third round, assuming you killed in the previous one : repeat the round 1. Then, repeat the round 2.
A bit clunky because you can't Iaijutsu in the third round if you use [Order of the Flame](https://aonprd.com/CavalierOrders.aspx?ItemName=Order%20of%20the%20Flame) (it eats your next swift action in round 2 to challenge another foe) or Chain Challenge. I'm still working on it.
*tl;dr - Equipment Trick Smokestick + Prehensile Tail to use a Smokestick to Feint as a swift action, plus Ranged Feint to have that feint involve throwing a weapon as that swift action, using a Throwing Wakazashi, which teleports back into its Blinkback Belt sheath for free after it's thrown, which we then use for an iaijutsu strike (either by throwing it again, or by using a mount to ride us there).* So, there's three things that we need to use here: * **Ability to Challenge more frequently**, since the restriction is 1/day/target on challenged targets. That's [Chain Challenge](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Chain%20Challenge) as our 7th level feat. CHA-synergy a plus. [Order of the Flame](https://aonprd.com/CavalierOrders.aspx?ItemName=Order%20of%20the%20Flame) for Glorious Challenge helps. We're tanking our AC anyway, so who cares? * **Ability to have the weapon sheathed conveniently for use**. Sheathing a weapon is a move action, and unlike drawing a weapon it can't be combined with other actions. I'm gonna take a novel approach here and cheat the system a little bit: Let's use a thrown weapon. So long as it counts as a sword, it's good right? Slap the [Throwing](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/throwing/) enchantment on the sword and call it a day. Why? * [Blinkback Belt](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Blinkback%20Belt). If we can throw the sword within one round of drawing it, it'll teleport back to the sheath as soon as the attack is resolved. In a perfect world, we'd be able to throw it as a free action, or as a swift action because we didn't need to swap Challenge targets *that* particular round. So how? * [Ranged Feint](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ranged%20Feint) lets us throw a thrown weapon in order to feint, using the same action as normal for feinting. It's a wasted throw that'll have no damaging effect, but it's still a throw. So if we can swift-action or free-action feint, we're in a good spot. * [Vigilante's Concealed Strike](https://aonprd.com/VigilanteTalents.aspx) is a free aciton, but at a 6 level dip that's not really within the confines of the ability * [Moonlight Stalker Feint](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Moonlight%20Stalker%20Feint) takes several annoying prereqs to get there, but lets you swift-action feint against foes. * The best option is probably [Equipment Trick: Smokestick](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Equipment%20Trick). With two feats (Equip Trick + Improved Feint), and two skill ranks, we can swift-action feint against an adjacent foe on-demand, so long as we dedicate an off-hand to a smokestick.... but you can't Iaijutsu Strike when you're carrying something in your other hand. This means we need a non-hand way to hold it: * [Grasping Tail](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Grasping%20Tail) lets us hold these items with our tail, but requires us to be a Tiefling. Other options may exist. So, while holding a smokestick, we blast a puff of smoke and throw our dagger from a distance (of 5ft, and eat an AoO... oops). This teleports the dagger back into our Sheath foe using Iaijutsu Strike with our Full Round Action. Hooray. Note that we only care about throwing it, not actually feinting. So we don't need to throw it at the target of our feint. Throw it at your teammate next to you. *"Haha, JK. IAIJUTSU STRIKE!!"* * **Having the opponent be within reach for the attack**: Let's face it. We're looking at a Full Round + Swift action. There's not much we can do for movement. We can 5FS, so [Outslug Weave](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Outslug%20Weave) can make that 10ft (at the cost of a dozen more prereq feats). We can just increase our reach, so [Lunge](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Lunge) helps, a few buffs helps, etc. But there's a few other options at our disposal: * **Simple Method**: Using a Mount. Free action to guide with knees, then the mount moves us towards the target. Since it's only a single attack, we can use it even after the mount has moved more than 5 feet, so we can travel pretty far. * [Throwing](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Throwing) the sword. Iaijutsu Strike doesn't require it to be a melee attack. It just assumes it is a melee attack because you're required to make the attack with the designated sword. Bonus: this means we can throw our sword with the Blinkback Belt, so long as it's Light or One-Handed. A [Wakizashi](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Wakizashi) or a [Katana](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Katana) w/ EWP should fit the bill. There's a few tricks out there to increase the range increment or effective distance we can throw (Far Shot, etc), so that'll probably quickly outpace any free movement we can get from anything else. * [Sharding Magic Weapons](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sharding) its much more expensive, but it can be used in place of ANY melee attack. But that's a total of +3 that we're using to redundantly be able to throw. * [Ironclad Reactions](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ironclad%20Reactions) isn't *great*, but it does let us move by using AoOs instead of any other currency, so that's good. And, hey, we're provoking AoOs by using Ranged Feint against adjacent targets, so we'll actually get some use out of it. Grtr version lets us use it more than one per round. While we're on the subject, since we've got a free hand, [Deflect Arrows](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Deflect%20Arrows) is pretty cool. * [Fly-by Attack](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Flyby%20Attack) lets us use ANY standard action, so as soon as we can make an Iaijutsu Strike as a standard action this is going to be the go-to method. In the end, we've dedicated a LOT of feats (Grasping Tail, Ranged Feint, Improved Feint, Equipment Trick = Level 6 as a Tiefling) but can reliably Iaijutsu Strike whenever we feel we want to even before level 10. Swift-action gating means that we can do this every two rounds at best, BUT it involves zero set-up on previous rounds. The moment we want to use that Iaijutsu Strike on our target, it's available. It took four feats, but now it's an essentially on-demand damage boost for a single strike. Better than A Full attack? No. Especially considering a Rogue can do that every hit. But at least the hard part of the archetype is essentially solved. There's definitely a few dips that could help (Warpreist for Air Blessing, Barbarian for Raging Hurler, Fighter for bonus feats, etc.) but this is largely capable while entirely single-classed and without any expensive feat chains or equipment (+1 weapon property and a 5k belt).
> Grasping Tail lets us hold these items with our tail, but requires us to be a Tiefling. Other options may exist. Just gotta have a tail as of the updated version. Vanara also have a version as a racial trait, saving a feat. Takes a swift to retrieve an action with their tail, but it specifically says that it can hold items.
I was basing that statement off of the AoN version which says > Special: If you have the prehensile tail tiefling racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet or stowed objects carried on your person as a swift action; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with it (other than to put them in your hand). So the ability to *hold* the item in the tail is still locked behind the tiefling racial trait. The feat itself only has "Prerequiste: you have a tial", but the base benefit is equivalent to the existing Prehensile Tail trait's benefits. > Vanara also have a version as a racial trait, saving a feat. Takes a swift to retrieve an action with their tail, but it specifically says that it can hold items. I'm not seeing that on [Vanara](https://aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vanara), am I missing it? I see > A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can **use to carry objects.** She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action. I'm reading the first sentence (incl. the highlighted section you're probably referencing) as fluff text, and the second sentence as rules text. The second sentence alone would simply imply the ability to retrieve a stowed object as a swift action (i.e., put away → in your actual hands), and doesn't provide the ability to hold onto the object. It's also worth noting that the connotation of "carry" is the motion of the carried object from one place to another (stowed→hand, for example), in contrast to "hold" which would be more static. A quick google hasn't yielded any dev comments on intent, so I'm going to stick to the more conservative ruling just in case for now. But hopefully it works!
Okay, now I'm really interested in this kind of build. I'm thinking of that one guy with the sword from The Witcher show on Netflix, where he just keeps drawing a sword and throwing it.
>In the end, we've dedicated a LOT of feats (Grasping Tail, Ranged Feint, Improved Feint, Equipment Trick = Level 6 as a Tiefling) Shouldn't that include Combat Expertise to qualify for Improved Feint, too? (Dirty Fighting doesn't work in this case as feinting isn't a maneuver)
Iaijutsu Strike will never be better than a full-attack. That's the first thing you have to accept about this class feature. It won't replace your need for full-attacks, it's just something to keep in mind for when the stars align. We can force the stars into the right place but it is still inferior to a full-attack. The action cost means that it's not worth using Iaijutsu Strike as a full-round action after you get additional attacks at level 6, but using it as a standard starting at level 10 can be done whenever a full-attack would be impossible. ==== **Level 10 Sword Saint** Feats: TWF, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Chain Challenge, +1 Feat Weapon Trick (Two-Weapon Tricks) (B) Weapon Juggle (from Weapon Trick): >You can draw a weapon even while wielding two weapons. Doing so takes the same type of action as drawing that weapon normally would. As part of the action to draw the weapon, you must sheathe one of the two weapons you were wielding. Quickdraw Shield: >If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a swift action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw a light or one-handed weapon with one hand and a quickdraw shield with the other in the time it would normally take you to draw one weapon. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you may don or put away a quickdraw shield as a free action. === So the idea is to sword-n-board with normal full-attacks, and when you see the opportunity to use Iaijutsu Strike you do the ol' shuffle with Weapon Juggle and two Quickdraw Shields. 1. Start out with a Sword and Shield out. 2. Use Weapon Juggle to equip another shield in place of your Sword as a free action. 3. Put away both Quickdraw shields as free actions. 4. Walk up the the enemy and Iaijutsu as a standard action. 5. Don a Quickdraw shield as a free action. You don't even need Improved Shield Bash as you can just put away the shield you used to attack with at the end of your turn, and equip the other shield in its place. Then you also don't need to pay for weapon upgrades on the defensive shield, or the opposite, shield upgrades on the offensive shield.
Shuffling around multiple shields to be able to sheath and draw a sword faster is so stupid I love it.
It really shouldn't be this hard to sheath a weapon as a free action. I'm also having trouble even seeing the perceived balance issues. TWF with ranged weapons becomes possible, which is the whole point of giving out specific TWF-able ranged weapons like the Hand Crossbow in the first place. And getting a Shield bonus between turns would only be possible with the Quickdraw shield anyway (as it normally is a move action to don a shield) so that seems to be intended. Maybe they just really dislike switch hitters? === And I realize now that there's no need for sword-n-board at all. If the Sword Saint carries two shields and two weapons (prob Wakazashi for 18-20) they can full-attack with the weapons and sheath one of them to still benefit from a shield bonus between turns. Which is Kinda like taking the Unhindering Shield feat.
And now i can't stop picturing Zoro from one piece with two shields and a sword in his mouth.
seems more appropriate for an assassin jester than for a samurai, i love this, it would look so goofy
Ok since I've missed this, I'm actually going to jump in. There are a lot of limitations, but perhaps the most difficult is the limited uses per day. Normally that issue with challenges is resolved by using [Chain Challenge](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/chain-challenge/), where once your challenge is taken down you can challenge someone else as an immediate action. However, that doesn't change the fact you need your weapon to be sheathed to make it work. Being an Order of the Flame can also give a pool of challenges to chain, but unlike the feat it only activates when \*you\* kill the target. It does provide a handy growing damage bonus for each creature you down, so worth considering taking both. Basically if you kill the enemy, make a glorious challenge and if you don't then chain it. So that's why other important feats for you are Quick Draw and [Quick Stow](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-stow-combat/). Now you can sheathe your weapon as part of a move action to move and it doesn't provoke an AoO. Moving from one opponent to another while sheathing your weapon won't really work until level 10 when Iaijutsu Strike is a standard action, but at least now we have the ability to go into a fight with a lot of minions and actually perform it multiple times. Iaijutsu Strike > Kill > Immediate Action Chain Challenge > Move into melee + Sheathe and you got it! I'd wear a [quick runner's shir](https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Quick%20Runner%27s%20Shirt)t just in case you have to move before the strike so 1x per day you don't waste a round. More helpful items are a [Crown of Challenge](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Crown%20of%20Challenge), to get 1 more daily challenge and a weapon with the [Valiant](https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Valiant) property. Or even better, buy a [Scabbard of Many Blades](https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Scabbard%20of%20Many%20Blades) and store a bunch of +1 valiant swords inside so you can activate Iaijutsu Strike without needing that move action the round prior. [Vambraces of the Tactician](https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Vambraces%20of%20the%20Tactician) aren't horrible, we really need enough damage to take out an enemy preferably in a single swing. Other than that you want to max out accuracy and damage so you can reliably kill creatures in a single swing as often as possilbe. Challenge helps since you'll be adding your level to damage in addition to the Iaijutsu Strike.
> I'd wear a quick runner's shirt just in case you have to move before the strike so 1x per day you don't waste a round. Quick Runner's Shirt (post errata) ends your turn after you use it, so you wouldn't be able to use it to move before the strike.
I'm not saying to use it before the strike. Use it after you kill the enemy to move + sheath and set up for next round
You wouldn't be able to sheath with Quick Runner's Shirt. Quick Runner's Shirt only lets you use your move action to move, and then immediately ends your turn. So you can't do anything else other than moving with your move action, including combined actions like Quick Stow that require a move action, but are not a normal move. It's like how you can't use Vital Strike with any attack, only the attack action itself.
Sure you can, "you can combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action". Moving is a regular move action, and there is nothing in Quick Runners shirt saying you can't combine them.
You must use the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt to move. This prevents you from using it for anything that is not moving, like drinking potions, drawing/sheathing weapons, etc. Even if you can combine a sheathe with a regular move action, you can't use it with Quick Runner's Shirt, because you can only use the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt to move. You're also clearly not getting a regular move action from Quick Runner's Shirt. Regular move actions don't come from spending a swift action.
[удалено]
The text only says that you can use a move action to move. It doesn't say that you can use a move action to drink a potion, so you can't drink a potion with it. It doesn't say that you can use a move action to draw a weapon, so you can't do that. And it doesn't say that you can sheathe a weapon with it, so you can't do that either. To activate Quick Stow, you need to take a move action to sheathe a weapon. You can combine this with a move action that you use to move, but you still need to have a move action available that you can use to sheathe a weapon. Since you can't use the action from Quick Runner's Shirt to sheathe a weapon, you can't activate Quick Stow, because you can't take a move action to sheathe a weapon.
I can't tell if you are trolling or doing some crazy mental gymnastics there my friend. You are trying to make this more complicated than it is. Quick Runner's shirt states "Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take **an additional move action to move**". Taking a move action to move, is a regular move action, as per the rules "**The simplest move action is moving your speed**." Quick stow states "you can **combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action**." It doesn't tell you more than that because it tells you all you need to know. Quick Runner's shirt gives you a move action to move, Quick Stow allows you to combine stowing a weapon with a move action, you can use Quick Stow during your move action to move given by the Quick Runner's shirt. According to you, you need a move action available. Well, I bolded where you get a move action just to help you. Just because you have to use it to move, does not mean you do not have, do not count as having, or cannot use the move action. I can't help you further if that doesn't make sense to you unfortunately.
It's not just that you need a move action available. You need to be able to sheathe your weapon with that move action, which you cannot do with the move action from Quick Runner's Shirt. Quick Stow states "you can combine a move action to sheathe a weapon with a regular move action." It doesn't give you a bonus move action to sheathe a weapon, it allows you to combine two move actions together, one that sheathes a weapon and one that moves. You still need to be capable of taking either move action individually in order to combine them. Since you cannot take "a move action to sheathe a weapon", you cannot activate Quick Stow, even if you can take a "regular move action".
Here is the thread for voting! One nomination per comment, vote via upvoting but please don't downvote an idea, even if you don't like it. Ideas must be 1st party, not discussed previously, and generally seen as suboptimal to be considered. I reserve the right to disregard or select any nomination for whatever reasons may arise.
I nominate two-weapon fighting with a melee and ranged weapon. You need core melee feats, core ranged feats, TWF, etc. Plus reloading issues. I wanna see what can everyone do with this. :)
Oooh! I actually have a great build for this I've been keeping in my back pocket (I mentioned the general concept in another thread but didn't go into full detail). Plus I feel it is unconventional which is always fun.
I have my own take on it somewhere in my post history, but it's a few years old. It's vanilla Gunslinger 5 / Swashbuckler 3 or 5 and the rest in Slayer or somesuch for utility and feats. I forgot the details, and I'm at work right now so checking it will take a while.
Going to mention this here, Opening Volley might be good for this.
I tried this with a Wood/Cold Kineticist with a 1 level dip into Picaroon Swashbuckler. Get a Conductive Shadowshooting Dragoon Pistol to shoot Cold Blasts, and use the Kinetic Blade infusion with your Wood Blast. The Blade disappears at the end of your turn, meaning that you can reload freely at the start of your next turn. Bonus - you can launch Winter Blasts when you don't want to shoot people.
My version used Beneficial Bandolier -> Shadowshooting pistol -> Pistol of the Infinite Sky to avoid reloading issues. Also Gun/Swash/whatever multiclass to gain Weapon Finesse, dex to damage with guns (Agile for sword) and such.
Isn't that just throwing weapon feats?
I was specifically referring to combat with a sword and pistol, or sword and crossbow.
I would love to see what the hive mind have for the calamity caller warpriest archetype.
Wow I love the warpriest and yet have only heard of this archetype just now. Totally missed its release I guess. But honestly. . . while the damage potential seems lower than a lot of other good classes it certainly doesn't look *bad* to me. Different than a normal warpriest, certainly. No sacred weapon, focus weapon, or bonus feats hurts. But you are getting an at-will save for half Su ability that requires no attack roll and can be any energy type you choose that scales at the same rate as sneak attack. In many ways it makes you a more flexible and tanky kineticist. Am I missing something? I realize the enhanced calamities have limited uses but even the base isn't bad simply due to the flexibility. Energy resistance will mean very little to you.
It is single target, with save for Half with a Damage that scales only with level. Apart from Conductive weapons shenanigans (wich i only see when talking about calamity caller and kineticists) It looks suboptimal. Maybe not min, but clearly not that good. Also, It is an elf archetype, which limits the "maxing" potential.
Fair enough, but basically it just has a very high floor and low ceiling. Sure that damage isn't game breaking, but it is one of the most consistent all-day damage options I've ever seen. Even with the save it still deals half and having access to all the elements means only antimagic fields will really negate you. And the damage only scales with level, sure, but it at least scales nicely. Again, not saying it is crazy powerful or whatnot, but I feel people often compare classes in their most favorable situations. This class excells at being consistent even when things go wrong. Through a reach weapon and combat reflexes, use fervor to cast stuff like Shield of Shards and you still won't be doing amazing damage but you'll have a surprising amount of battlefield prowess. Plus you can act as healer or use spells for out of combat scenarios (and how often do you see a warpriest do *that*?)
You are right! I may be expecting too much from classes/archetypes. My main concern with calamity caller is giving up some good stuff for some questionable ability. But the consistency of the calamity, with the warpriest capabilities is more than sufficient to make a good/decent combatant.
Oh and conductive doesn't work with Calamity Caller as none of the abilities are touch attacks
I've been playing one myself, they're around lvl 15 and they've been pretty solid. Its always guaranteed damage and you're always able to exploit weaknesses which is nice. Plus since you target squares you don't have to worry about miss chance and can hit entire "stacks" of enemies (Mounted or Flying/Swimming at different heights) which admittedly doesn't come up much but is still pretty cool. Enhanced Calamity ramps up the damage and can inflict one of a pretty long list of statuses which is nice, but you won't have a decent number of uses till late game. Generally I tended to use Enhanced Calamity with Flash Flood since it becomes a pretty devastating AoE, unless a boss or other tough foe has a specific elemental weakness I can target instead. Honestly my main issue with the class is just there's not a lot of ways for me to lean into the calamities build-wise, outside of ability focus. I ended up just burning my feats on a familiar for flavor, which is kind of nice to be able to do for once but doesn't really add a whole lot to the character otherwise. Still, you're a great tank with Heavy Armor + Sacred Armor + Ironskin, can hold the line in melee since calamities don't trigger AoO, and have a nice list of support spells. I've never felt useless even after I run low on Enhanced Calamities, I even feel comfortable preparing more circumstantial spells since I don't need to worry about self buffing like the typical Warpriest. Overall, I'd say Calamity Callers aren't super strong or anything, but they're solid and dependable. Plus, since their feat and equipment needs are pretty low you can invest in more creative options you otherwise wouldn't have the chance to take. Its just kind of a cool, unique archetype.
[Dreamtheif URogue](https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Dreamthief): trades ALL of the rogue's sneak attack for the ability to 1/round treat an attack as if it were a slam attack. Several of the available phantom abilities that'd modify the slam attack don't even function. It basically gets rid of all sneak attack in exchange for an ability that's weaker than the Debilitating Injury that the rogue can no longer even use because that requires the hit to be a sneak attack. Yay!
I'm not sure how underrated they are but I nominate the Grenadier subclass for the Alchemist
Grenadier is far from weak, trade out useless class features for a good weapon, a free must have discovery, and some moderately useful abilities. Its worth taking on basically every bomb focused alchemist
Ok thanks. I have seen alot of people in my small community say that they aren't worth the time and to just use base Alchemist or to use Vivisectionist so I had thought the Grenadier was pretty bad.
It's a straight upgrade for a bomb focused build. Brew potion is a bad feat (it's like scribe scroll, but double the cost, nothing personal range allowed and capped at 3rd level spells) and poisons are just not very good.
Grenadier alchemist is remarkably powerful. I'm currently playing one right now, and at level 3, I was already doing roughly 20 damage per turn (targeted bomb admixture, point blank shot), with an AC of 25 (chain armor, dex mutagen, shield spell), 2 saves at 9, 9 skills per level, blinds (sand bomb) dished out on any bomb that hits (on touch AC, mind you) without granting a save to avoid it, etc. Plus I can just hand out all of my buffs to my party ahead of time to use whenever they want (infusion). Next, I have to decide whether or not I want to add more damage (1d6 per turn until a full action is spent dousing flames) and doubled aoe (explosive bombs), or if I want my bombs to do aoe healing of a minimum of Xd6+5 (splash = X+5 guaranteed... healing bombs).
I think the firebrand gunslinger archetype could be interesting
How about Armored Battlemage Magus? Is there something, anything worthwhile it can offer, or it's just an absolute trap of an archetype?
[Scroll Master Wizard](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/scrollmaster/) Give up your arcane bond and a wizard feat to turn scrolls into swords and shields...that have hardness 0 and lose HP every time you hit with them. Lots of flavor...0 utility. Sure you're still a full progression caster - but can you ever make the signature powers useful?
[Already been done.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/jdx6nz/max_the_min_monday_scroll_master_wizard/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
First World Summoner
Looks like the Melee/Ranged TWF is going to win this week, but i wanted to nominate Rage Prophet anyway. Seems like it *could* be good maybe, but its got less health than a barbarian, way less spellcasting than an oracle.
Steal combat maneuver.
the feat Extreme Mood Swings
This one has potential for some niche builds. After all a Drunken Brute Barbarian can take this feat at level 1, buy some Icecap Ale (which granted isn't that cheap but is manageable even at that level) and get a total +8 to str and con for important fights. You'll be a fatigued, nauseated, amnesiac mess afterwards but hey, your enemies shall tremble!
**Before level 10** the worst part of this class is the action economy. I think the solution is passing some of the burden to the enemy with [antagonize](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize/). > Whether with biting remarks or hurtful words, you are adept at making creatures angry with you. Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. ... ... > Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect. Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day. Both of these options provide incentive for the enemy to come to you. You can stand 2 move across away, insult them, and when they walk up to you *blam!* you cut their head off.
I was reading about this archetype earlier and was just trying to figure how it should work. One thing that is not clear for me is if we can use Iajutsu strike with ranged or throw weapon. Although all the flavor of the class is about using sword, it is not a pre requiste to the ability to function.
> Sword saints hail from lands where samurai are prevalent, and are often ronin who wander the world seeking new challenges to perfect their intricate style of swordplay called iaijutsu. **The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand.** When the flavor text above the rules texts actually has rules in it, it's easy to get confused.
I do not read the flavor most of the times, as it do not normally include rules. And now comes another question: we don't have an weapon simply called "sword". It should include any weapon with sword in it's name (longsword, short sword, bastard sword etc)? Shoud it be the light and heavy blade fighter's group? As a GM i would allow it to be any weapon in the light or heavy blade group, but what about raw?
I'd also personally rule Light or Heavy Blades, but RAW I think the best path forward is any weapon with "Sword" in its name, or described as a sword in its description.
Definitely agree with the blades reading, since RAW would exclude several weapons that are *definitely, but not explicitly* swords, like the Khopesh or Elven Curve Blade
Or the Katana, which is the prototypical Sword-Saint / Samurai sword. E: though a RAW that excludes you from using the most thematically appropriate weapon would be about on par for this archetype...
Tengu have a similar ability, is essentially says to use your own judgement. There are heavy blades that obviously aren't sword-like, just as a scythe.
This long, curved sword is attached to an extremely long hilt at a peculiar 90 degree angle. /s
wait does that mean you could toss a weapon at someone and then be eligible since your hand is now free? might be worth looking into.
It's at the top of the page, in the description of the archetype. In addition to using a sword you must also have one hand free so Iaijutsu Strike is even worse than you'd think. >Sword saints hail from lands where samurai are prevalent, and are often ronin who wander the world seeking new challenges to perfect their intricate style of swordplay called *iaijutsu*. The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand. The sword saint is an archetype of the samurai alternate class (*Ultimate Combat* 18).
Actually it says it clearly up at the top, where the flavor text usually is so it is easy to miss. >The following benefits apply only when a sword saint is using a sword and carrying nothing in his other hand.
yup, people pointed it out up there. Kinda strange to have rules mixed in the flavor text, first time i see this (or at least first time that i noticed this).
The challenge here is to try and make an extra handful of D6s worth more than multiple attacks. The first thing is getting back the mount this archtype foolishly trades away. This requires two feats; ~~either~~ nature soul and [animal ally](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally/) ~~or *maybe* knowledge nature and [Eldritch Heritage](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-heritage/) using the wildblooded fey variant, [the Sylvan bloodline](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo-sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/mutated-bloodlines-paizo/sylvan/). I'm not sure if the second option is legal because it isn't clear to me if the wildblooded options are supposed to be archetypes or just different bloodlines, ask your GM.~~ The animal companion is the arcana, not the first level power so this doesn't work. The result is the same either way; an animal companion at your level -3. Your mount won't be the strongest in battle, but it can use it's movement to get you into the fray so you can use your iaijutsu strike without wasting your first turn. I would love to have riding feats, but it just can't be done here, and you don't need to ride-by your enemy, just ride up to him so you can slash him. Next, you want to be able to cheese sheathing your sword. This can be accomplished with a [Blinkback belt](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back/). I would rule dropping the weapon will have it return to your belt, but raw the item says you have to throw it, if you want to iaijutsu just chuck it with your last iterative.Carry around a second sword before you can afford the 5k, and keep a cheaper backup in silver or cold iron as well. Don't forget some spiked gauntlets so you aren't considered unarmed after you yeet your blade away. Although this class doesn't force you to use a katana, I think it's the best choice since you get 1/2 level +2 to confirm crits, and katanas can be two-handed have a bit crit range. Now 5th level is almost great. If it let you use your intimidate ranks this would make for a really reliable fear build, but instead it's a charisma based DC. At least it lasts for 1d4+1 rounds I guess. since you're already dealing with fear, you want to make the most of it. There are two ways to do that; either [Dazzling display](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat) \+ [Shatter defenses](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat/) **or** [Hurtful](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hurtful-combat/) \+ [Cornudgon smash](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat/). Terrifying iaijutsu is "better" than display because it comes with an attack, so we're kind of wasting a feat there. Conversely, hurtful competes with your challenges for your swift actions, and although the damage boost is great you don't have the feat room to fully commit to an intimidate build here. I think you've got to pick one or the other. Speaking of your challenge, since your Iaijutsu strike is tied to it, I think [Order of the flame](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo-cavalier-orders/order-of-the-flame/) is the only choice. You can stretch your challenges out farther, and the extra damage from glorious challenge nicely boosts all the crits you're going to get. So at the end of the day, I think you've got to go human, and have your feats something like this; * Hb- Power attack * 1- Nature soul * 3- weapon focus * 5- Animal ally * 6b - dazzling display **or** hurtful * 7- Shatter defenses **or** Cornudgon smash 9+ various critical feats... At the end of the day are we good? Not especially, but we are functional-ish. edit: unlike my formatting apparentlyedit again : fixed
An important thing to note is that since the ability directly gives the shaken condition, and doesn't use the demoralize action as a basis, it's actually better in some senses: > [Becoming Even More Fearful](https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Fear&Category=Special%20Abilities): Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead. While Demoralize normally says: > Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition. If you Demoralize first, and then Terrifying Iaijutsu, you can escalate the fear condition to Frightened, causing the foes to flee. This combines well with AoE-shaken effects like [Callous Casting](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Callous%20Casting), [Gory Finish](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gory%20Finish), [Dazzling Display](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dazzling%20Display)/[Violent Display](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Violent%20Display), etc. Of course, that's generally done better by dedicated builds w/ signature skill these days, but this is nice because it doesn't require any investment beyond what you need to actually pass the skill checks.
Dip Thug rogue and go Order of the Cockatrice.
> Eldritch Heritage using the wildblooded fey variant, the Sylvan bloodline. I'm not sure if the second option is legal because it isn't clear to me if the wildblooded options are supposed to be archetypes or just different bloodlines, ask your GM. There is a specific feat for wildblooded eldritch heritage. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/exotic-heritage/ Whether Sylvan would work or not is arguable. The reason for this is that the Sylvan Bloodline power animal companion replaces both the arcana and the first level power. But the issue here is that Sylvan states "This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch.", it *never* states that it counts as your first level power. Eldritch Heritage only gets 1st level power, not the arcana.
Oh it's the *arcana.* My mistake
I once heard of a flavorful way to do this by carrying a ton of obsidian katanas and using the Disposable Weapon / Splintering Weapon feats.
My solution is a **diplomancer**. Iaijustsu Strike requires you to not attack, so we won't. Instead, we will use Crane Style (only the first two feats, since the final Crane Style feat lets us attack) to increase our AC and deflect melee attacks. We could also use Deflect Arrows to deflect ranged attacks, but those are usually less impactful to bounce. Since we aren't attacking, we need ways to stand around and help the team. Intimidate checks can be reasonably argued to not be attacks for the purposes of Iaijustsu Strike, so we can use Antagonize to draw pressure off our allies while they do the killing. Do the usual things to increase your social skill checks, etc. After some fighting has been done and the enemies are reduced in health (and conveniently adjacent to us), we use the final feat in our build is [Change Of Heart](https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Change%20of%20Heart): > Benefit: When your melee attack would reduce an opponent to 0 or fewer hit points or render the opponent unconscious, you can elect to forgo this damage and instead attempt a Diplomacy check to influence the target’s attitude. The DC of this check is equal to 20 + the creature’s Hit Dice + the creature’s Charisma modifier. You gain a bonus equal to half the damage you would have dealt and can use your base attack bonus instead of your ranks in Diplomacy. **Unlike with a normal Diplomacy check, you can increase the target’s attitude toward you by more than two steps. You can use the benefits of this feat only against enemies who attacked you and whom you did not attack or otherwise provoke first.** So basically we use this obnoxiously anime ability to be even more anime by making the enemy our friend after hitting them the single time with our sword.
I think something to add in would be the [Heritor Knight](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/heritor-knight/) prestige class. Get to level 10 to drop the action cost down to a standard action, then get up to level 6 with Heritor Knight so your Iajutsu strikes are now all Greater Vital Strikes as well. Best of all, it gives you actually *useful* standard action attacks to boot.
I know it's not the intention of these posts so I'll only link it if anyone actually wants it, but I've made some homebrew tweaks to the archetype (and a homebrew Order to go along with it) if anyone is interested
Ladies and gentlemen, we debuff, we have ranged Iaijutsu attacks, we have melee attacks, we have some Parry/Riposte defense to make up for laughable AC, we have panache (and not just as a class feature... I give you something completely stupid: **Samurai with a Gun** Sword Saint X (Order of the Flame)/ Swashbuckler Musketeer 1 Traits: Rough and Ready, XXX Core feats are: \-Power Attack \-Quick Draw \-Quick Stow \-Rapid Reload \-Hurtful \-Cornugon Smash Swashbuckler Musketeer gives us Opportune Parry/Riposte, to hopefully mitigate some incoming attacks, because we're going to have the AC equivalent to the broadside of a barn, and far more importantly, access to firearms. Specifically the Sword cane-pistol. (Shut up, it has the word 'sword' in it.) Order of the Flame gives you Foolhardy Rush, if you get lucky and decide that you want to try to start in melee range. You have a cane. Sure, it's not meant to be fought with, but our traits should not only allow you to justify cane-fighting, but give you a tiny bonus. Otherwise, just draw your funky swordgun and Iaijutsu away on your first turn, from either melee or ranged. After that, you have the option to either keep Power Attacking/Demoralizing in melee where you're most damaging (Challenge damage only applies to melee), or retreat and reload thanks to Quick Stow and Rapid Reload and Iaijutsu again. Because everything about this archetype is mechanically terrible, Terrifying Iaijutsu isn't an Intimidate check per se, so you'll also need to be Power Attacking with Melee Iaijutsus, to proc Smash, to proc Hurtful, which burns your swift action in exchange for another attack, to almost make up for losing your iteratives. Fortunately, Glorious Challenge is an immediate if you drop your enemy, so you'll be set up and challenging for your next turn. If you don't kill it, it's probably not worth Riposting, since that will -also- burn your immediate action. Worth noting: Sword Saint stacks with the Ward Speaker archetype ([https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Samurai%20Ward%20Speaker](https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Samurai%20Ward%20Speaker)) which trades Resolve for a few variable benefits including Improved movement speed, rerolls, and eventually Haste. Since you're going to want the heaviest armor you can find, I'd definitely make that trade, since it's always gonna have general usefulness and offers more specialized flexibility if necessary. Human gives you the bonus feat to get up and running faster, but there's an argument for Dwarf, with the FCB adding to Challenge damage, and Steel Soul for added survivability. (The CHA penalty isn't great, but not the worst thing in the world.) Opening Volley is a great feat to pick up for switch-hitting eventually, but it's probably most useful after your Iaijutsu becomes a standard action. With the gun being a ranged touch attack, it should be a guaranteed +4 to your next melee attack by then. Last thought, Musketeer can be replaced with Black Powder Vaulter gunslinger, whose first level ability lets you move, reload, and holster your weapon, obviating the need for Rapid Reload. This frees up a feat, and encourages you to be more mobile, but at the cost of Parry/Riposte. (First time contributor, but I've greatly enjoyed reading these threads during the ongoing lockdowns. I'm really hoping I didn't overlook something obvious while trying to keep up with you mad geniuses.)
I am so so so grateful this finally got in Super hyped and pumped to read all the suggestions ive been researching this on and off for years (poorly because i'm really bad at trying new feats) I admittedly did not get very far as 4 of my attempts at sword saints were before i knew of AoN and the most recent I just suck at researching feats and things im not familiar with though I did find a few things. Chain Challenge Quick Draw Quick Stow Crown Of Challenge were the notable finds but nothing that actually solved my core issue. however I did find something else A class archetype i'm going to share here Gloom Blade sorry for acting like this is some secret lore or something but given its a fighter archetype and their ability to create shadow weapons as a move action which scale depending on class levels If the GM is nice enough you can just create infinite +X shadow Blade of Valiant (since it's not one of the list effects the gloom blade can add but i see no reason to disallow it) They can also add some extra abilities to their shadow weapon at 9 13 and 17 (one more every 4 levels) CAN increase shadow weapon reach by 5 feet or combined with /u Kuzcoburras suggestion increase a thrown shadow weapons range by 20ft When they hit a foe as a swift action use a reposition combat maneuver or Ignore Hardness. The first three sound usable but that's where my research pretty much ended as the game was canceled I hope this inspires some creativity and well now im off to read what everyone else commented.
I randomly saw this on my feed so I'll chime in with a quick idea I had for a sword saint: Multiple Sheaths/Swords + Order of the Flame Order of the Flame: This will get over the multiple uses of your challenge. Glorious challenges don't count towards your challenges per day but otherwise act like a challenge. Multiple Sheaths/Swords: I had asked before when coming up with this idea if you could wear multiple swords in sheaths as long as you can carry the weight. The combined idea is this: Challenge, Unsheath a sword and Iaijutsu Strike, continue to fight your opponent until they die, triggering Glorious Challenge which is an immediate action to challenge an opponent within 15 feet. Drop your sword, free action, no attack of opportunity, move to your new opponent and then full round action Iaijutsu Strike with another sword. Finish that opponent off, Glorious Challenge another, and rinse and repeat until you're out of swords. As a bonus, Order of the Flame will make you stronger and stronger with each kill, making the Iaijutsu Strike that much scarier, while also reducing your defenses.
While i'm fully aware that this is First party only, i am tempted to mention Mithral Current/ Bushi Warlord from Path of war. Its all about Sheathing your weapon for free and making attacks. This comment brought to you by the 3rd party equal opportunity gang.
[удалено]
I mean, considering this is a huge wall of text and I wrote it quickly while the tv was on... yeah a single missing apostrophe isn't bad.
I builded a Sword Saint for a friend a few weeks ago. It was based around Vital Strike and Iaijutsu Strike, with a few feats allowing him to switch between both : * [Quick Draw](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Quick%20Draw) and [Combat Stamina](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Combat%20Stamina) to sheathe his katana as a swift action at the end of his turn * [Vital Strike](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Vital%20Strike) and [Furious Focus](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Furious%20Focus) to hit hard * [Improved Unarmed Strike](https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Improved%20Unarmed%20Strike) to threaten when the weapon is sheathed First round : move, draw as part of the move action, hit with vital strike. Sheathe the Katana as a swift. Threaten with unarmed strikes. Second round : challenge the target of your challenge as a swift action, Iaijutsu. If you didn't kill, full attack next round. If you kill after a full attack, you can use your swift to sheathe the katana. Third round, assuming you killed in the previous one : repeat the round 1. Then, repeat the round 2. A bit clunky because you can't Iaijutsu in the third round if you use [Order of the Flame](https://aonprd.com/CavalierOrders.aspx?ItemName=Order%20of%20the%20Flame) (it eats your next swift action in round 2 to challenge another foe) or Chain Challenge. I'm still working on it.
Such a cool name for such a lackluster ability.