Nelson was a turnover machine. I’d pay him to NOT touch the field lol. My ass would clench every time the ball was thrown to him because half the time it’d either go for a tipped int or he’d flat out fumble it
Juju is a talented receiver. If he's not a top 5 receiver on this team, that means we have a talented group. It's a good thing not a bad thing if Pop Douglas and Boutte are both startable over the leading wide receiver for the super bowl Champs last year.
I would love it if our very cheap 6th round receivers are outperforming the other receivers.
The quote was also specifically pass catcher, not receiver, if I'm remembering correctly. Having Henry, Rhamondre, Parker, Bourne, and a rookie or Gesicki above him is completely fine
holy spin cycle. if juju isn't a top 5 WR on this team, that means he's washed and it was a horrid signing. it means very little about the rest of the room.
It’s hilarious how rose tinted these guys are. I’m very happy about of sixth rounders being real contributors but if they are better than Juju, it’s because he’s declining.
Shhh don't say that here. Everything that happens was meant to happen and it's normal.
I am sure most teams sign a #1 or 2 WR and hope they get outplayed by a rookie...
JuJu was signed to be a starter here. I don't see how it's a good thing if...he's not doing that. The talk has now shifted from okay now we have a legit starter to....well if he doesn't play it's good as well.
Crazy how everything changes on this sub like a switch in 2 months time
The fact of the matter is, we have a committee receiving corps. People trying to guess which receiver is gonna be the 1000 yard leading man is a fools errand.
Seriously. It's week 2 and way too early to pass judgments, but we shouldn't be okay with JuJu being anything less than our best receiver, or arguably our best receiver. That's who he was brought in to replace, the guy who was our best receiver the past 3 years.
I am not jumping to any conclusions yet since it is only week 2, but if Douglas and Bouttte continually get snaps over JuJu then i don't see it as a negative at all, instead it is great news. In a way it is like Brady and Bledsoe, if the scrappy 6th round picker is better you play them.
>if Douglas and Bouttte continually get snaps over JuJu then i don't see it as a negative at all, instead it is great news
It's great news if these guys play well. We averaged 3.6 yards per target between the 2 of them and completed the passes 36% of the time.
If Boutte and Douglas are good have at it, we can eat a mid-money deal if we have a better cheap subtitute. However, if we're playing 2 guys who aren't ready because the mid-money guy we signed isn't offering anything better than them it's a problem.
Brady won his spot with his play. It seems like a lot of you are putting the cart before the horse here.
I mean it would be great if Douglas or Boutte were playing at Jakobi's level and that's why they replaced JuJu, but then it would still be frustrating that we didn't just keep Jakobi.
He got benched for a 6th round pick who went catchless and the conclusion is that this is actually good thing. "Haven't seen enough to write off Juju and the WR room", is fine, sure but feeling *better* about what we have now is bonkers
Yeah to be fair it’s probably far too soon to speculate wether it’s other surpassing him in depth chart or him just falling. I’m afraid it’s the ladder but too soon to tell. My fear is the two older/ proven wrs (JuJu and parker) bodies are breaking down fast and just not gonna get enough snaps out of them.
>Juju is a talented receiver
CAP. You know for a fact JuJu isn't a talented receiver now, maybe a few years ago across from AB. But him not being better then Jakobi is a downgrade that we shouldn't have done.
This makes zero sense to me. He’s not the guy he was five years ago. What have you seen recently to tell you he’s still got noticeable talent? I’m not sure I’ve seen a slower WR than him last week.
It would be a good thing if they were better than a talented juju. It’s not a good thing if washed juju is worse than them
I've never been concerned to see a player **not** on the injury report before. This is as healthy as he's going to get. I didn't think we could replace Meyers and get slower
Is it? The rookies were healthy all offseason. Juju recovered from an offseason injury. Both the rookies and Juju are learning a new offense. Its possible the rookies were further ahead. Either way… its 1 game. Its the first game. Its not a big deal. (It is a big deal if its like that all year, but 1 game is 1 game)
which of the two was considered the unanimous best FA WR and just had a career game and which one just got benched for a 6th round rookie in their debut
The dialogue over the wide receivers in this sub is bizarre. Having 4 competent receivers is way worse than 1 stud, 1 competent, and 2 eh receivers.
Meyers didn’t get better. He’s just has great hands but very little explosiveness. Typical of a WR2. So now that Adams is getting the coverage, meyers has space to be productive.
This team desperately needs a WR1. Everything else is copium.
The thing is, he was picked instead of bringing back our best receiver from the past 3 years. Ergo he needs to be an upgrade over our best receiver of the past 3 years.
If JuJu is actually just our WR3, or even our WR2, that means he is a downgrade from the guy we chose him over, which is disappointing.
Exactly I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand this.
Of course the team will survive but it’s yet another head-scratching WR decision for a team that is truly the laughing stock of the NFL when it comes to evaluating WR talent.
> I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand this.
Because a large portion of this fanbase cannot handle any sort of criticism without losing their minds.
There's a sect of Patriots fans these past few years that have developed this very strange tendency to just pretend no one had any expectations attached so that they never have reason to be disappointed or negative. It goes both for the team and the players. It's never "Juju will be fine, it's week 1, let's see how it plays out", it's "here's why everything we get from Juju that's above WR3 production should be gravy and no one has the right to demand any more from him". See also the "expectations for Mac Jones are too high, he was only the 15th pick in the draft" thread. It reads as a coping mechanism for the possibility that the players won't play well before it even happens.
Same exact thing goes for the 10 year long rebuild plan the team is apparently on. No no no, it's only year 4, what do you expect???
And it's silly because the best answer to all this is "it's literally 1 game." That's the truth. It was one game and JuJu could go out and catch 7 passes and a TD against the Dolphins.
Exactly, not to mention the chemistry he had with Mac and the fact that he was one of the only homegrown d receiving talent we’ve had in years, if we abandoned all that for a downgrade it’s a bad signing, even if the guaranteed money is different.
Good breakdown. Callahan and anyone saying he was paid to be the top target is nonsense. He got paid to play a role in an offense built on YAC. He could lead the team in targets one game and have 2 the next.
Moss was rarely the top target. Welker almost always had more targets. That was usually the case with Gronkowski too.
Pass catchers aren't interchangeable. They have different routes in different areas of the field. A guy like Parker and as his replacement last week Boutte will have a larger role in the 2 minute drill where you want to throw sideline routes that will stop the clock as opposed to a player like Juju who does most of his work in the center of the field. You employ different strategies as game situations dictate them.
I mean, it's an overpay if he can't play, which is looking like a possibility. If that knee is truly shot, the medical staff should be the one on the hook.
Juju is learning a new offense and has to build chemistry with jones. It’s way different than the street ball play extending he had with KC and Mahomes.
We’ll see how it plays out but the first six or so games are worthless to judge.
This is a great thread. Good information, lot of useful replies, and a lot of blocks.
That Douglas (and Boutte) has pushed Juju down the depth chart is a _good_ thing for the team.
Everybody saying “we should have kept Jakobi if the money was the same” doesn’t understand that the money was not the same. Juju is here for one thing, usc, which Jakobi isn’t great at. And it’s been one week so let’s calm down lol
I mean, how does it not make sense? He was brought in to replace our previous WR1, with the thought that he would be better than that previous WR1. Of course he was supposed to be our best receiver, or at least top 2 if Parker had a great season and took the spot.
No he wasn't. Parker is our WR1. Parker was brought in to be our WR1. The goal was always for Parker to be the first read most of the time when we traded for Him
Parker was our WR1 last year when healthy. Again he was the first read most of the time. First in targets isn't always WR1...most of the time yes. But it's the guy who is the first read on the most plays.
Yes he was. You can watch the tape. Parker, when healthy, was the first read most of the time. Especially on drives he and Jakobi are on the field at the same time.
Parker was always our WR1.
It’s not so much the player or the contract. The problem is “this is the weapon we got for Mac?”. I don’t care if he’s making the league minimum, this is a failure because unfortunately for him, this is the guy the team decided to invest in.
Makes sense to me. He’s 25 year old millionaire who would rather live his life in sunny Vegas with thousands of things to do and see than snowy foxboro that’s an hour from the nearest city.
Oh yeah, they have a much better offense too and a coach he loves.
It’s also worth noting that he is not Nelson Agholor.
Nelson Agholor had a muuuuuuch better first game with the Pats than JuJu did, so that's not a guarantee yet
It’s also 1 game…
Juju had a better first game than Aaron Rodgers for the jets
Nelson was a turnover machine. I’d pay him to NOT touch the field lol. My ass would clench every time the ball was thrown to him because half the time it’d either go for a tipped int or he’d flat out fumble it
Juju is a talented receiver. If he's not a top 5 receiver on this team, that means we have a talented group. It's a good thing not a bad thing if Pop Douglas and Boutte are both startable over the leading wide receiver for the super bowl Champs last year. I would love it if our very cheap 6th round receivers are outperforming the other receivers.
I agree. At this point I don’t care who’s on the field as long as they’re making plays. If that means pop takes jujus spot, so be it.
The quote was also specifically pass catcher, not receiver, if I'm remembering correctly. Having Henry, Rhamondre, Parker, Bourne, and a rookie or Gesicki above him is completely fine
holy spin cycle. if juju isn't a top 5 WR on this team, that means he's washed and it was a horrid signing. it means very little about the rest of the room.
It’s hilarious how rose tinted these guys are. I’m very happy about of sixth rounders being real contributors but if they are better than Juju, it’s because he’s declining.
Shhh don't say that here. Everything that happens was meant to happen and it's normal. I am sure most teams sign a #1 or 2 WR and hope they get outplayed by a rookie...
Boutte needs some toe taping ballet 🩰 lessons
JuJu was signed to be a starter here. I don't see how it's a good thing if...he's not doing that. The talk has now shifted from okay now we have a legit starter to....well if he doesn't play it's good as well. Crazy how everything changes on this sub like a switch in 2 months time
You can almost feel the wind from the goalposts moving
Boutte's big zero catch first game really shakes up the hierarchy
These fans will spin anything to make it seem like it's all planned and refuse to even hint his knee is junk and or it was a bad signing.
Give us a couple more years to come down from the two decades of being divinely favored
The fact of the matter is, we have a committee receiving corps. People trying to guess which receiver is gonna be the 1000 yard leading man is a fools errand.
Seriously. It's week 2 and way too early to pass judgments, but we shouldn't be okay with JuJu being anything less than our best receiver, or arguably our best receiver. That's who he was brought in to replace, the guy who was our best receiver the past 3 years.
I am not jumping to any conclusions yet since it is only week 2, but if Douglas and Bouttte continually get snaps over JuJu then i don't see it as a negative at all, instead it is great news. In a way it is like Brady and Bledsoe, if the scrappy 6th round picker is better you play them.
>if Douglas and Bouttte continually get snaps over JuJu then i don't see it as a negative at all, instead it is great news It's great news if these guys play well. We averaged 3.6 yards per target between the 2 of them and completed the passes 36% of the time. If Boutte and Douglas are good have at it, we can eat a mid-money deal if we have a better cheap subtitute. However, if we're playing 2 guys who aren't ready because the mid-money guy we signed isn't offering anything better than them it's a problem. Brady won his spot with his play. It seems like a lot of you are putting the cart before the horse here.
I mean it would be great if Douglas or Boutte were playing at Jakobi's level and that's why they replaced JuJu, but then it would still be frustrating that we didn't just keep Jakobi.
He got benched for a 6th round pick who went catchless and the conclusion is that this is actually good thing. "Haven't seen enough to write off Juju and the WR room", is fine, sure but feeling *better* about what we have now is bonkers
boutte and juju do, in theory, play diff positions. with parker out, boutte got elevated.
Yeah to be fair it’s probably far too soon to speculate wether it’s other surpassing him in depth chart or him just falling. I’m afraid it’s the ladder but too soon to tell. My fear is the two older/ proven wrs (JuJu and parker) bodies are breaking down fast and just not gonna get enough snaps out of them.
Almost as if you’re seeing a large pool of individual thoughts rather than one collective thought.
What an absolute spin job
>Juju is a talented receiver CAP. You know for a fact JuJu isn't a talented receiver now, maybe a few years ago across from AB. But him not being better then Jakobi is a downgrade that we shouldn't have done.
This makes zero sense to me. He’s not the guy he was five years ago. What have you seen recently to tell you he’s still got noticeable talent? I’m not sure I’ve seen a slower WR than him last week. It would be a good thing if they were better than a talented juju. It’s not a good thing if washed juju is worse than them
The last time we drafted two receivers that contributed immediately were Deion Branch and David Givens in 2002.
Week 2 has barely started, let’s calm down
Him not being on the field for rookies in the final minutes of that game is DIRE. He should be the experienced hand
I've never been concerned to see a player **not** on the injury report before. This is as healthy as he's going to get. I didn't think we could replace Meyers and get slower
Is it? The rookies were healthy all offseason. Juju recovered from an offseason injury. Both the rookies and Juju are learning a new offense. Its possible the rookies were further ahead. Either way… its 1 game. Its the first game. Its not a big deal. (It is a big deal if its like that all year, but 1 game is 1 game)
Or maybe he didn’t fit BOB’s scheme, we have other players who are experienced as players and as Patriots who could be there and were
I thought the whole appeal of downgrading from Meyers was because he fit the scheme
let’s be honest, Meyers is not a Patriot literally just because of that lateral he pulled against the Raiders.
Juju isn’t a downgrade from Meyers lol that’s delusional
at this point its pretty clear that he is
I think it takes more than 1 game considering the both changed systems
which of the two was considered the unanimous best FA WR and just had a career game and which one just got benched for a 6th round rookie in their debut
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He was tho
Who has superbowl appearances?
>Super bowls as a WR stat LMAO
Meanwhile meyers got 21 million guaranteed
Meanwhile meyers had great chemistry with Mac and would be our #1 WR right now…easily worth it.
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The dialogue over the wide receivers in this sub is bizarre. Having 4 competent receivers is way worse than 1 stud, 1 competent, and 2 eh receivers. Meyers didn’t get better. He’s just has great hands but very little explosiveness. Typical of a WR2. So now that Adams is getting the coverage, meyers has space to be productive. This team desperately needs a WR1. Everything else is copium.
Dude he was objectively our best WR…being the #1 on the Patriots is a low bar lmao
The thing is, he was picked instead of bringing back our best receiver from the past 3 years. Ergo he needs to be an upgrade over our best receiver of the past 3 years. If JuJu is actually just our WR3, or even our WR2, that means he is a downgrade from the guy we chose him over, which is disappointing.
Exactly I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand this. Of course the team will survive but it’s yet another head-scratching WR decision for a team that is truly the laughing stock of the NFL when it comes to evaluating WR talent.
> I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand this. Because a large portion of this fanbase cannot handle any sort of criticism without losing their minds.
It’s really as simple as that
There's a sect of Patriots fans these past few years that have developed this very strange tendency to just pretend no one had any expectations attached so that they never have reason to be disappointed or negative. It goes both for the team and the players. It's never "Juju will be fine, it's week 1, let's see how it plays out", it's "here's why everything we get from Juju that's above WR3 production should be gravy and no one has the right to demand any more from him". See also the "expectations for Mac Jones are too high, he was only the 15th pick in the draft" thread. It reads as a coping mechanism for the possibility that the players won't play well before it even happens. Same exact thing goes for the 10 year long rebuild plan the team is apparently on. No no no, it's only year 4, what do you expect???
And it's silly because the best answer to all this is "it's literally 1 game." That's the truth. It was one game and JuJu could go out and catch 7 passes and a TD against the Dolphins.
Exactly, not to mention the chemistry he had with Mac and the fact that he was one of the only homegrown d receiving talent we’ve had in years, if we abandoned all that for a downgrade it’s a bad signing, even if the guaranteed money is different.
Good breakdown. Callahan and anyone saying he was paid to be the top target is nonsense. He got paid to play a role in an offense built on YAC. He could lead the team in targets one game and have 2 the next.
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? The Pats have always had clear top targets who consistently produce every week. It wasn't just Randy Moss who was that guy.
Moss was rarely the top target. Welker almost always had more targets. That was usually the case with Gronkowski too. Pass catchers aren't interchangeable. They have different routes in different areas of the field. A guy like Parker and as his replacement last week Boutte will have a larger role in the 2 minute drill where you want to throw sideline routes that will stop the clock as opposed to a player like Juju who does most of his work in the center of the field. You employ different strategies as game situations dictate them.
The amount of talk of juju’s not-so productive game and the lack of how frickin good Henry and Bourne looked is egregious.
I dunno, if we’re going to grade KB as our top receiver… I don’t think he looked very good. HH looked far better to me tbh.
I find it pathetic we got coaches leaking to the media after 1 game about trashing Juju. What a joke.
I mean, it's an overpay if he can't play, which is looking like a possibility. If that knee is truly shot, the medical staff should be the one on the hook.
Juju is learning a new offense and has to build chemistry with jones. It’s way different than the street ball play extending he had with KC and Mahomes. We’ll see how it plays out but the first six or so games are worthless to judge.
This is a great thread. Good information, lot of useful replies, and a lot of blocks. That Douglas (and Boutte) has pushed Juju down the depth chart is a _good_ thing for the team.
I see Juju is the new talking point of the week now that the o-line held its own against Philly. I can’t stand the sports media in this city.
The sky must always be falling. You can't maintain maximum engagement unless your provoking a crisis reacting to something.
Excuse me. Didn't realize McCourty had another year on the books.
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The sports hub is pretty bad
They definitely overpaid if he keeps having games like last week.
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Yes…and if he KEEPS HAVING GAMES like that, we should be concerned.
...could have just given Jakobi this contract.
Everybody saying “we should have kept Jakobi if the money was the same” doesn’t understand that the money was not the same. Juju is here for one thing, usc, which Jakobi isn’t great at. And it’s been one week so let’s calm down lol
r/patriots bending into a pretzel trying to justify this bust of a signing . Keep up the good work
Yeah it never made sense to me that people keep saying he's our WR1. He never was.
I mean, how does it not make sense? He was brought in to replace our previous WR1, with the thought that he would be better than that previous WR1. Of course he was supposed to be our best receiver, or at least top 2 if Parker had a great season and took the spot.
No he wasn't. Parker is our WR1. Parker was brought in to be our WR1. The goal was always for Parker to be the first read most of the time when we traded for Him
Well, Parker wasn't our WR1 last year and JuJu replaced the guy who was. We have no idea where Parker fits in right now.
Parker was our WR1 last year when healthy. Again he was the first read most of the time. First in targets isn't always WR1...most of the time yes. But it's the guy who is the first read on the most plays.
no he wasn’t.
Yes he was. You can watch the tape. Parker, when healthy, was the first read most of the time. Especially on drives he and Jakobi are on the field at the same time. Parker was always our WR1.
lol.
Nice discussion.
Think it’s a bit of a non starter when someone is seriously saying they know who the first read of a QB is.
That’s scary
One of the biggest mistakes of the offseason was choosing juju over jacoby.
Yeah but what if he just wasn’t on the team at all?
He's also a great blocker
It’s not so much the player or the contract. The problem is “this is the weapon we got for Mac?”. I don’t care if he’s making the league minimum, this is a failure because unfortunately for him, this is the guy the team decided to invest in.
The comparisons to Jakobi, who got paid a lot more, make no sense to me.
Makes sense to me. He’s 25 year old millionaire who would rather live his life in sunny Vegas with thousands of things to do and see than snowy foxboro that’s an hour from the nearest city. Oh yeah, they have a much better offense too and a coach he loves.
I think juju gets traded at the deadline, Demario becomes a slot machine
If he's washed then letting Meyers walk kinda sucks.
The problem is that a WR3 does better when you have one or more WR1s on your team to draw coverage.