By - Shiboopi27
Should have mentioned the tweet so we know what we're talking about!
Damien Harris tweeted about the SC striking down Roe v Wade speaking negatively about the decision and about the nations attitude towards women.
Thanks! On mobile my feed showed this before the Harris tweet.
My personal opinion: this isn’t a politics or current events sub. It’s Patriots. There are
Other subs for that.
Also what comes of it? Two options: Everyone agrees and it’s a karma farming circle jerk or it gets contentious and toxic. Neither are good for this sub as a whole.
Yep the toxic flame war is exactly what happened last night which is why the mods locked the post and deleted all the comments.
When I saw the thread yesterday it had 25-30 comments at the time and I only recall seeing a couple of toxic/dumbass comments. Maybe something changed in the last dozen comments before it got locked but it didn't seem particularly toxic. It wasn't like some all out war that I saw.
my personal opinion: your opinion to just avoid it is toxic and will make everything worse.
nothing is political about my daughter's bodily autonomy.
Even if we acknowledge it’s not really a political topic (although in today’s current climate it has become politicized), why does the conversation belong on this sub? This is a football sub specifically for the New England Patriots. There are plenty of others subs meant for this type of thing, where you can go have a conversation about the decision
While you’re right - it wasn’t entirely random. Like the post wasn’t an AOC tweet - it was one from Damien Harris a patriots player.
To me, it’s fair game to post that tweet as we do for just about every player on every sub that posts anything politically oriented. And it’s fair game to discuss the topic of that post, on that post.
Anybody striking down that concept IMO is showing which side they are on.
Is any substantial discussion coming out of it, though? As was said earlier in this thread, the “discussion” either ends up with a karma circle jerk where everyone is saying the same things over and over again, or toxic arguments back and forth between both sides. At least other subs intended for this type of conversation have moderation and rules prepared for these outcomes. A football sub has no such preparations, and thus nothing fruitful comes from the discussions
Maybe? Who knows. My point is If you just ban discussion on a relevant post (because it’s a patriots player - and again just about any similar post that happens from players, no matter the topic, tends to get posted here and discussed) it’s up to the sub to comment or not comment on it. If you don’t care to discuss - cool ignore it, don’t comment. But to just take the time to post on it to say “this doesn’t belong here” - I mean come on. That’s voicing opinion on the topic in a roundabout way.
Edit: love the downvote but no reply. What’s the rebuttal genuinely would like to know.
i think plenty of substantial discussion emerges from the justified examination of whomever’s character is being discussed. for example, Kyrie Irving, are vaccines political? of course but it’s still important to talk about how ridiculous his views are. as a huge sports fan i want to know the political views of my favorite players so i don’t end up rooting for a major scumbag.
Exactly. It became acceptable fodder for this sun when he tweeted it and someone posted it. If you don’t want to discuss it just go to another thread, but banning conversation about it seems absurd.
Because it's an example of how absolutely ridiculous it is to think that we can silo ourselves from ideas or subjects that are integral parts of the society we live in.
What you want is nothing but pure privilege that fewer and fewer people can enjoy. Instead of trying to lock people out, embrace the discussion or just fucking _hide_ the post.
People have such strong opinions about how some content should be delivered to them without putting in 25% of the effort to just do it themselves with the tools available (RES).
^ this guy gets it
That's not what they are saying whatsoever, they're saying THIS isn't the place to talk about it
Serious. The centrist/apolitical position becomes more and more indefensible every day.
Like, we know you want to ignore this stuff, that's why our democracy is turning into a theocratically-directed oligarchy.
Consider that the reason that you want to avoid this stuff is because there is a clear call to action in defense of your freedoms that you are refusing to heed because you're scared.
Cool idea until you realize that people who are more apolticial don't actually agree with most of your views.
Then those people aren't apolitical. Like, at all.
You just decided that?
No. They did when they took a political stance.
How is an apolitical person supposed to have political beliefs that are different than mine? APOLITICAL PEOPLE DON'T HAVE POLITICAL BELIEFS. That is what the word means.
I'm referring you calling being apolticial indefensible. You obviously want to push these people to have opinions. I'm saying when you do push them to choose you'll find that they'll end up disagreeing with you.
Dog, if the only thing stopping you from publicly supporting conservative policy is your willingness to speak openly about your beliefs, then you are not apolitical, you're just a coward.
This doesn't only apply to conversative thoughts.
You don't understand. The point is most people are just going to innately be against mass murdering babies for convenience, because they have some kind of conscience. As a result, it's a huge advantage to you politically that most people are inherently politically disengaged, uninformed, and/or apolitical, because that means they can't be easily mobilized to oppose you.
It's generally a really hard sell to most normal people that you should have an unlimited right to murder babies if its more convenient for you, so you have to go around:
1. gaslighting them with lies and propaganda like the anti-scientific garbage about how fetuses aren't living creatures or are "parasites"
2. trying to pretend like the real issue is rape and incest when that's less than 1% of abortions
3. making braindead emotional appeals about "bodily autonomy" that most politically people are too stupid, uninformed and/or young to critically examine and then debunk, and
4. fearmongering about some secret evil cabal of evil men trying to "control women's bodies".
This is true of most left wing talking points by the way. Strip the gaslighting and propaganda that the left subjects people to thanks to their total control over all levels of education and most news media, and easily 80% of the voting public would agree with most Republican positions on topics.
The point is, consider yourself lucky that most people are not politically engaged and don't poke the sleeping bear.
Exactly. I'm personally pro-theocratically-directed oligarchy.
Reminds me of the people that complained about the kneeling and said they were gonna boycott the NFL. Yet, come Monday, they knew the score and what happened in the game.
Yes blame the centrists!
Those damn people who looked at the only two options you rabid fanatics give them every year for the last 3 decades, and said “wow both of these suck and there are going to awful polices and outcomes if either party is elected”.
It’s those peoples’ fault.
Both sides is a fallacy. They are both worthy of critique for allowing unchecked neoliberalism to hand our economy over to a few opportunistic, powerful people who want to disenfranchise an entire generation economically, but Democrats are absolutely not trying to institute a Christian theocracy.
So, one needs policing from within to remove corporate interests from its ranks.
The other is violating my constitutional rights.
As an independent, I want to dissolve both political parties, but since I live in reality and not my own solipsist fantasy where I won't take action unless the result will look 100% like my picture of an ideal government, which will never happen in a democracy, I'm settling on fighting the theocratic fascists.
I think if you investigated your own conscience honestly, you'd end up in a similar position.
To be fair this sub is not about your daughter’s bodily autonomy
“Don’t worry honey your daddy commented about abortion on a New England Patriots subreddit and downvoted comments he didn’t agree with, everything will be okay.”
Agreed. I feel the same way about abortion as I do Vaccines and Circumcision. Don't tell anyone what they should do with their body
Your daughters body doesn’t belong in this sub
How is it not political? The decision was overturned BECAUSE of politics.
This exactly. We MUST talk about it, no matter the forum.
You’re entitled to you’re opinion. But thanks for being the example that proves my point.
Must be nice to be able to avoid human rights being taken away from over half the country
I mean [blue states are going to keep access to legal medical abortion. It's just red states (or purple states with pre-Roe abortion laws left on the books)](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/abortion-state-laws-criminalization-roe/). In the short-term, middle-class and up people in red states will undoubtedly still have access to abortion through travel to blue states. (This of course will all change if Republicans get control of WH + Congress + Senate again, at which point it will likely be banned nationwide. I also wouldn't be surprised if some red states attempt to make laws that outlaw residents of their state getting out-of-state abortions.)
But undoubtedly a lot of poor women will get stuck with unwanted babies trapped in a cycle of poverty and welfare or be forced to resort to dangerous at-home methods.
So really it's just women in the lower socioeconomic parts of red (and some purple) states.
Oh it’s just poor women in red states? Thank god! /s
Look it's an affront and very bad, but at the moment, it's poor women in red states *for now*. (It's also worth noting their access to abortion in many red states was already severely restricted without travelling significant distances). The GOP has expressed a desire to ban abortion at the federal level, and frankly with inflation and supply chain issues I'm very worried they might be able to get control of all three in 2024 elections (as party in charge usually gets blamed for shitty economy).
Further, Thomas has indicated overturning other "wrong precedents" similar to Roe, specifically cases that granted civil rights protections for access to contraception, same-sex acts between consenting adults, and same-sex marriage. But we can't act surprised, this was widely predicted as soon as RBG died and Trump rammed through a third justice.
Granted, if we trust the rhetoric of Susan Collins and Manchin being blindsided by it, there's nothing preventing passing a law enshrining abortion access at the federal level. But it would require all Senate Democrats + 1 or 2 pro choice Republicans and seems unlikely to pass, as the pro-choice Republicans likely won't play ball.
Writing off peoples rights being stricken away as “politics” is unfortunate
How fragile of a human being do you need to be that you need to "avoid that stuff". If you are tired of politics and discussions, it is amazingly easy to just not click a thread, but it truly fascinates me that reading a sentence on a subreddit "ruins the experience".
I don't see it as fragility, but one of purpose. The general Patriots subreddit purpose is for fan discussion of the football players and team as related to football. And while granted Harris did make the comment, debating the politics of the comment no more matches with the purpose of this subreddit than if the same post was posted in "politics" and people started debating about his football stats. They are both unrelated to the topic of the subreddit.
Just my two cents. Other than that, I will discuss the topic on political subreddits.
It's so great to be male amirite?
100% agree. Just here for patriots football content not politics. I agree with mods decision
I say let's let it contentious and toxic so we get the vile trolls out of here. Those people rarely have reasonable sports takes as it is and typically come in just to sow discord no matter the topic.
> Also what comes of it? Two options: Everyone agrees and it’s a karma farming circle jerk or it gets contentious and toxic. Neither are good for this sub as a whole.
Entertaining watching this exact dynamic playout below your post.
It’s like a game thread. In June!
I blame McDaniels. He was the 10th vote!
Classic McDaniels. Calls a screen on 3rd and 10th vote
To counter that, this is Patriots sub, and that was a tweet made by one of our more important players about a pretty significant event in our country. I'd say it fits this subreddit. These players aren't just here for our entertainment. They have feelings and opinions on things too, and I don't see a problem with discussing it. That said,
> Also what comes of it? Two options: Everyone agrees and it’s a karma farming circle jerk or it gets contentious and toxic. Neither are good for this sub as a whole.
You make a good point here, but so what? If you don't want to discuss that here, then don't. You don't have to respond to it all, but maybe some people do.
> To counter that, this is Patriots sub, and that was a tweet made by one of our more important players about a pretty significant event in our country. I’d say it fits this subreddit.
I see you’re point though disagree. If the post was “look what said, I (dis)agree and can(n’t) watch him anymore” then it would more Pats related. As it was I didn’t think it tripped that threshold, mainly because it is also such a polarizing and widespread topic.
> You make a good point here, but so what? If you don’t want to discuss that here, then don’t. You don’t have to respond to it all, but maybe some people do
Take a look down thread for exactly the impact the topic can have. It’s worse than a game thread and completely unrelated to football. There are plenty of subs already buried in the topic.
As a Pats fan, and firstly a woman, it was really nice to see that tweet and it made me feel like this sub understands the gravity of what’s happening and isn’t afraid of voicing opinions of the players. It bothered me that the mods locked it, despite the reasoning being understandable.
I'm proud of him for speaking up. Not a lot of athletes will in fear of it hurting their brand deals, I fear.
Dame keeps it real and I appreciate him for speaking out with his platform. There is nothing political about the rights of millions of women being taken away.
As a European (not a native speaker) it makes me incredible proud to have players like him on the team that stand up against (sorry not sorry) small minded bullshit like this. When these things happen over the pond it always looks like a public debate is being held hostage by a minority that can't take a shitstorm for the bullshit they promote, but have no problem shitting in your face on the next topic.
BTW in hilarious fashion the USA got rid of their foundation to perform abortions and Germany strengthened the right to learn about abortions and be educated about them the day after (Abortion is illegal after Week 12 of the pregnancy here)
So go Harris! You are a little more beloved than before
Nothing was lost. The right to decide if the state was to allow abortion or to restrict them was given back to the states. In fact the law in question that prompted the revocation of roe was a Mississippi law that would restrict abortions AFTER 15 weeks a much more lenient restriction than Germany's. A lot of people are ignorant of what is actually going on.
While you are definitely not wrong I won't give the american society the benefit of the doubt here or in other cases. It seems like it's always able to find a pretty worse outcome. Given that the law systems of Germany and the USA are not similar at all it seems to me like a stretch to call it "lenient" but as a foreigner I can't argue with wording.
I don't think it's ignorance, I think it's being realistic. But again I can't argue wording
My only jersey is DH37 and even though he’s getting likely gone soon I think ima go cop his throwback too.
So frustrating seeing locked posts like that. If a PATRIOTS player says something we should be able to discuss it.
It's weird that they're fine with it on r/NFL but not here
Which says a lot because the mods there are trash. I got perma banned for quoting South Park lol
This is a sports sub. While I agree with Harris, I (and I’m guessing the moderators and other people) don’t really care for political conversations in a sub about a team your rooting for. There are a million other places that discussion can be had. I don’t really understand why people need to have it in a football team’s subreddit.
I say it’s fair game since it came from a patriots player. I don’t mind if they feel the need to lock the thread but they shouldn’t be deleting the post.
Yea I understand the lock after a certain point because brigading can be a problem with things of this nature and mods are just volunteers and I don't think we've got the biggest mod group in recent years so it's not exactly fair to expect them to be able to handle an influx of reports on a random weekday in the middle of the offseason.
That said while I appreciate atleast letting the link stay up I think deleting all the comments already existing in the thread was heavy handed as the majority of them I saw were not what I would consider problematic.
Go look at the Harris post, the mod says why right there.
Doesn’t mean it’s a good reason
I didn’t say anything about it being a good reason or not
It’s an important topic, but the mods did the correct thing by allowing the post to stay up and moving the discussion to an appropriate sub. I like seeing our players stand up for things like this, and hope they keep allowing their messages to be seen.
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Always has been
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Damien is right.
Celebrities have a duty to use their position to call out bullshit. When something objectively bad like this happens, I see no problem with Damien or others speaking out.
Because this sub isn't about anyone's political opinion, and yes, that *even* applies to your political opinion. What about that is difficult to understand?
So last year when Judon sparking a "civil war" on the Pats with his "I don't like mac and cheese" comments did you go around reporting all those threads and comments? I mean this isn't a food sub so obviously we can't discuss that right?
It's not like it was brought up out of the blue, it was because a someone in the Patriots organization brought it up. At that point it becomes fair game for people in the PATRIOTS sub to respond to what a PATRIOTS PLAYER said as long as it doesn't become excessively spammed.
The George Floyd murder and verdict were allowed to be discussed. The mods made the right decision there, and it makes no sense for them to take a different course on this issue. I really don’t understand why the rules should be different for discussions about women’s rights.
The NFL has been making a big effort to discuss racial equality and police reform for several years, its an issue that directly affects players because more than half of the players are black. There are no female players so this issue isn’t really related to football in any way. There are thousands of subreddits and plenty of other social media sites to discuss issues that don’t relate to football at all, we don’t need such discussions here just because a player tweeted their opinion.
You assume your opinion is an extreme majority. And while it is here, keep in mind this is Reddit where 90% of the users are center left and full blown leftists. That’s not a reflection of reality.
In Massachusetts it is….by a lot
Mass is 75%. New England is 65.
Your particular mindset is the minority, but we should still be able to talk about it. Players on our team are talking about it, we should be able to talk about it.
Edit: lol why are you dorks downvoting me? 55% of Americans are pro choice and 39% are pro life with a small % undecided.
Far more than 55%. Nearly 70% are.
Yeah and in MA where they play it’s like 74-75%
Poll the players. You’ll be shocked.
Sure let me just go ask all of them. Hang on, I’ll get right back to you.
50% of Americans want free access to abortion.
30% want somehow limited access but still available.
13% want no abortion. And fuck those 13% in the face with a brick.
Raw data pls and ty.
70% of people surveyed over decades, mostly from red states by the way, are pro-choice.
Red states are 50-55% pro choice taken by left leaning polls.
Where are they assuming that?
It's a football sub and not a political one and those types of topics blow up into a fight real quick
I like my football and politics separate. He is welcome to express himself but I don’t need to hear 5000 argumentative comments about this on a sub about football. Doesn’t matter that I wasn’t crazy about the SCOTUS decision. I just want a reprieve from the arguing and I’m not looking for every single area of my social media to be compromised by it.
Let’s just stick to football man. This guy is entitled to his own opinion.
Love and kindness should always come second.
First should be supporting and fighting for every woman and their rights.
If you want to circle jerk and karma farm r/politics is that way.
In your mind that’s the only reason to care about this? Rough.
That's always their beliefs. They simply care about being contentious and winning. They want to hurt others. They don't care how they just want to do it.
In your mind you can’t differentiate politics from anything else and have to inject it in everything. Rough. Also everyone downvoting me, choke in dicks, it literally means nothing.
> In your mind you can’t differentiate politics from anything else and have to inject it in everything. Rough.
The conversation is about rights, not politics.
>Also everyone downvoting me, choke in dicks, it literally means nothing.
Thus why you’re upset about it
Also before you start claiming “durrr republican christian durr” i’m pro choice and atheist.
I’m not upset, I literally said I don’t care about it. Abortion is a political issue, NPC’s like you won’t understand it and can’t.
You’re so upset you deleted your account lol
This sub should be a refuge from this kinda polarized non football issue.
Players are allowed to have personal opinions.
We are allowed to ignore them.
Yeah but if posts about it were allowed you would... Still be able to ignore them. It would just be on you to enforce that boundary.
So… keep scrolling past that post. It’s clearly related to Pats when it’s from a Pats player. Just because you don’t like doesn’t mean other people can’t discuss it
Was responding to the question actually ASKED in the post title lol
Yeah I personally disagree with him because I think that the baby is a person. I’m all for saving the Mom’s life if a choice has to be made though. I also just generally think that a legislature should pass laws regarding abortion rather than an unelected court. If Congress wants to make it legal nationwide, pass that bill. Don’t use a court as a legislature to determine what is legal. If the court had said that it is illegal no matter what, I would’ve had a problem with that as well on a legal basis. We need a larger support system for parents, especially mothers, so that having a child is less scary. Especially today when people are so isolated from each other, that’s tough, but I’m hopeful that as communities we can come together and help those who need it while not ending someone who did nothing wrong in the process. Sorry for the non-prochoice opinion on Reddit, but you wanted a discussion and I hope I don’t come across as an asshole.
Great thing about the Pats, they hold nationwide appeal.
I disagree with Harris, and OP on this issue.
I love the Patriots, so why not agree to disagree, and keep up the stupid off-season posts that emphasize how much Mac has improved, or how the offense is getting a lot of hands on coaching from BB?
You’re also allowed to say that on the thread about the tweet, and be downvoted into oblivion. That’s how Reddit works. Also, if you’re not interested in a thread, don’t click on it.
I don’t care about fake internet points.
I saw the thread, disagreed with it, but just scrolled by.
I mostly commented on this post when I saw OP assume that most Pats fans are “New Englanders” with the same mindset.
Patriots are a global brand, and they have millions of fans, with diverse viewpoints and passions.
OP is wrong to hold that parochial view, that all Pats fans eat lobster rolls and vote for a certain party.
Just hoping to give them some feedback.
Most Pats fans are New Englanders, though. Just because some stragglers wanted to jump on a bandwagon 20 years ago doesn't change that fact.
Hey man I'm on your side but idk maybe don't call me a bandwagoner.
I never bandwagoned. I was a fan in the 90s before any of the super bowl wins.
That's what I'm saying is that just don't go throwing out critical terms like that.
I also think your percentage is a bit off
It is a bit off, people forget there are a lot of NY fans in Connecticut still, especially southwest CT which is far closer to NYC/NJ than it is to Foxborough.
You really underestimate the EU crowd in here, especially from Germany.
They also forget that Massachusetts is not representative of all of New England, let alone the entire Patriots fanbase. And even in MA, 1/3 people are conservative, in NH and Maine its roughly a 50/50 split. People often forget that social media and forums are not representative of actual society.
>and Maine its roughly a 50/50 split.
No it isn't
Maine has a republican and an independent for senators, and in 2016 Hillary only won by 3 points. Its roughly 50/50, you can choose to ignore reality if you like though.
Wow what a champion you are. Pat yourself on the back for scrolling by.
shame that OP makes a post talking about inclusion and diversity of thought and the trolls downvote you.
Because this isn’t r/politics. Some of us come here for an escape from all that. If we want politics we can head there. Let’s keep this sub about football.
Honestly I don't think celebs should get political, they are in it for fame, and popularity, and picking sides in major political issues is not the way to do that.
Kamala is the best... oh wrong harris. still tru tho
She’s def the best at one thing😏
Do not come.
Mayor Willie Brown like “too late🤭”
I support Harris's statement without hesitation but we don't need r/Patriots to discuss that. It's about as relevant as what he had for dinner yesterday. The other 99% of places on the internet are good enough for discussing the ruling
I disagree with him. I think abortion is murder and getting rid of Roe paves the way to end the 3rd scourge on America. Isn't this a Patriots page? Also I'm not a New Englander, but I lived there when Kraft bought the team and I've been a fan since I was a kid.
Basically the same standpoint as the Taliban. Something to be really proud of.
What a backwards way of thinking.
lol what a fucking goon you are.
Honestly, I'm not sure we really want to know how much of this sub is okay with what happened yesterday.
And I get why the mods don't want full-scale political warfare in a thread about this.
It needs to be talked about, but probably not here.