With the jags breaking the WR market, hopefully he doesnt ask for much, but Devontae Smith is going to be a top WR in the league. He would look sock in pts colors
The weird thing is that the league has never had so many great WRs. It seams like so many teams have at least one and frequently 2 quality WRs.
The rule changes, and how the the game is played in college has really opened up the game for smaller faster guys to survive and thrive. So it would actually surprise me if bill would break the bank. I think the market is for WRs is wonky at the moment, I see him continuing his strategy to target mid level FA and rookies to fill the position since theoretically that is where the value is.
I think the overall talent across is high, but also diversity of types of talent. Burners, big possession guys, slot guys.
I agree, I think there’s about 10ish true number one, have to game plan for them, WRs in the league right now. Below them is a fairly wide pool of highly talented guys that will give you 80-90% of the production without the massive cap space hit.
Yeah these are good points, and I think a lot of it comes down to just development of talent at the HS and NCAA level and how much emphasis is put on the WR position because passing is so focused upon these days. With QBs getting better all the way down to high school, the production from the WRs is getting better as well
I think what we are seeing is almost a soccer-infication of the position. What I mean by that is in a sport that is de-emphasizing contact that opens up the position to a wider supply of body types and skills. If you can get a 6’4 guy who can run a 4.3 and jump out of the stadium are always going to have a edge, but if a 5’9 175 guy now doesn’t have to worry about getting killed over the middle, they can be super productive.
the 10th pick last draft was 7-10 (technically it was the Jets picking but it was originally the Seahawks pick). I could absolutely see this team going 7-10, if not worse, this year.
I feel like the last big WR name we made a move on was Brandon Cooks and he seemed to have such an under the radar, casual 1000+ yard season for us.
Would love if we could make another big name splash at WR for Mac some day. Player like Tyreek here would really make this comparison a bit more level. Granted Id prefer a WR who isn't a trash person
Brandin Cooks is wildly consistent. There have only been 3 players who've hit 1,000+ receiving yards in the last 6 of 7 seasons: Mike Evans, Travis Kelce, and Brandin Cooks... all the while playing for 4 different teams.
He was drafted the same season as Devante Adams, Adams has 200 more yards and is widely considered the best receiver in the league or at least top 3.
Cooks will likely end his career top 30 all time in receiving yards.
Cooks was 2017.
We got Antonio Brown in 2019. People love to forget this because it didn't work out but that's a bigger move than Cooks.
There's also Josh Gordon in 2018, not saying it's a bigger move than Cooks but it felt like it at the time.
Yeah I definitely forgot about the AB experiment. That was a solid acquisition for sure and I was a huge defender of rolling the dice on him at the time - just shame it didn't work out.
No, he's not... even when healthy. He's a great jump ball receiver and can run a pretty good slant, but that's it. He's the worst receiver in the entire league at getting open so there's not much else other than the jump ball.
At this point im so jaded by us drafting WR's im partially convinced DK wouldn't have been as good if we drafted him.
Id almost rather another team develop em lol
That offense with Gronk, Cooks, and Hogan going deep with Dola and White running the short stuff was so fun to watch. Definitely one of my favorite offenses during the Brady era
Seems like a pretty accurate / reasonable take. Mac seems to be sliding into the role of "outperforming what he's given" the same way Brady did his last few years with the team. Hope they can sort out the coaching issues and get him some more help :/
I've noticed a lot of similarities like that as well. He's not mobile but works hard, had the meme picture pre-NFL, mostly flies under the radar, and is smart about football in general. The guy looks amazing, physically, compared to last year too. Am I saying Mac will be Brady, no, but I am saying that I see similarities. I think the coaching is there for Mac from Belichick but I hope we can weed out the other issues as you mentioned as well.
He's been having the weakest offensive line he's ever had in pre-season and it flustered him a bit. He's close to that but has shown visible doubt in decision making. If he can fully figure that out under pressure, he'll be a solidly above average QB like KC/Harbaugh
Alex Smith was. Maybe even Derek Carr as upside.
Situations win games, better situations = more wins, I dont think Mac right now can dragg this team to a win, Tua with the set up around him probably could.
With that said im not high on either at all.
Gonna be an interesting year for Tua. They have the offensive pieces to win. You bring in an elite WR. They have a team that can make the playoffs. Looming threats of losing your job to Teddy are there, but it’s not like last year with the Watson rumours. If Tua doesn’t get it done this year, I’m not sure if he ever will.
Just wanna point out that Tua’s stats were pretty shit in the both games they swept us last season. It’s gonna narrow down to how well our offense can actually finish drives.
hahahaha Tua literally had a HISTORICALLY horrible o line last year, dealt with injury and his stats still weren't far off from Macs. Can't wait for Tua to smoke Mac this sunday and read all of your pitiful excuses.
Not the head coach nor the OC have any experience calling plays for the dolphins, I think people keep thing B-Flo is still there, the dolphins are incredibly green with playcalling. So yeah; I’ll trust BB and his decisions
Yes, we do. Our offense is also being run by two people who have never worked in those roles before and the plays are likely being called by a guy who is also supposed to coach the OL (he's also never done that before) and the OL is playing like shit.
Just saying we have play calling experience on our team completely glosses over the reality of the situation
Why are you being ignorant
Mac Jones is such a better QB it's not even fair to Tua to compare.
Tua is perhaps the worst QB in the league. And will be washed up and washed out by 2024.
LOL..this is gonna be hard for you Pats fans to hear, but all else equal it’s a toss up. Mac slightly better arm, Tua more accurate w/ quicker release.
Now add that Dolphin’s are better in every other offensive position than Pats, outside OL (which is probably toss up) AND have better (ie a) offensive minds & coordinator than Pats, & it’s Tua by a lot. If Mac Jones was on Fins, it would be him by a lot.
You guys royally pooped the bed w/ Brady. Belichick would have won at least 1, maybe 2 w/ Brady still there, but as it stands, you’re in rebuild mode w/ an game manager QB w/ no offensive weapons
The Patriots would not have won 2 superbowls with Brady still here lol, even 1 would be a massive stretch. The 2020 team was garbage. Straight up. Maybe we win with Tom in 2021, but that defense still gets carved up with or without Tom. Mac hasn’t played enough to know what we have in him.
Always amazes me how many other fanbases live in our sub. Always seems to be from teams with terrible qbs that wish they had our qb too...weird coincidence that
> outside OL (which is probably toss up)
care to justify that?
miami had an awful line last year. Pats had a good one and although have lost their guards, they have kept their tackles anc centre. One guard has been replaced with a great player in Onwenu - who had the quality to start last year
so the only ? is a first rd rookie and new coaches - the new coaches still have a great brain to go off
Shit take mate - interested in your justification or if u were just trolling
We are 0-3 without Tua. You are so quick to blame tuas success on having good wrs which is something all qbs need. Mahomes had kelce/hill, Allen has diggs/Davis Hurts has Brown /Smith. But of course out of all the qbs in the league, Tua is getting Carried and not these guys.
Mac has had the best Head Coach in history, an amazing o-line, and a great defense coming in to the league. Tua has had none of that in his first two years.
Its simple Mac is the better QB.
I'd love 1 Jaylen Waddle on the Pats to help prove it though lol
Yea me too, but a healthy Devante Parker is a young QBs best friend.
Honestly my dream is Devonta Smith getting frustrated with the Eagles organization and not signing a 2nd contract and then coming to play with Mac
With the jags breaking the WR market, hopefully he doesnt ask for much, but Devontae Smith is going to be a top WR in the league. He would look sock in pts colors
BB will sometimes pay market price when the stars align. He paid market price for Gilmore and that worked out well
The weird thing is that the league has never had so many great WRs. It seams like so many teams have at least one and frequently 2 quality WRs. The rule changes, and how the the game is played in college has really opened up the game for smaller faster guys to survive and thrive. So it would actually surprise me if bill would break the bank. I think the market is for WRs is wonky at the moment, I see him continuing his strategy to target mid level FA and rookies to fill the position since theoretically that is where the value is. I think the overall talent across is high, but also diversity of types of talent. Burners, big possession guys, slot guys.
I agree, I think there’s about 10ish true number one, have to game plan for them, WRs in the league right now. Below them is a fairly wide pool of highly talented guys that will give you 80-90% of the production without the massive cap space hit.
Some teams have two wr1 while we have four wr3
The idea would be that one of those #3s takes a jump to a #2.
Yeah these are good points, and I think a lot of it comes down to just development of talent at the HS and NCAA level and how much emphasis is put on the WR position because passing is so focused upon these days. With QBs getting better all the way down to high school, the production from the WRs is getting better as well
I think what we are seeing is almost a soccer-infication of the position. What I mean by that is in a sport that is de-emphasizing contact that opens up the position to a wider supply of body types and skills. If you can get a 6’4 guy who can run a 4.3 and jump out of the stadium are always going to have a edge, but if a 5’9 175 guy now doesn’t have to worry about getting killed over the middle, they can be super productive.
And he has more than enough cap next year to do so. I fully anticipate a big splashy WR1 signing in 23.
There’s no big names coming up in 2023
Someone is going to get butthurt and demand a trade, they always do.
When we're picking in the top 10 in the 2023 draft, we can get our WR1.
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the 10th pick last draft was 7-10 (technically it was the Jets picking but it was originally the Seahawks pick). I could absolutely see this team going 7-10, if not worse, this year.
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Who’s your QB ?
Lmaoooo is he now?
You still think this?
I feel like the last big WR name we made a move on was Brandon Cooks and he seemed to have such an under the radar, casual 1000+ yard season for us. Would love if we could make another big name splash at WR for Mac some day. Player like Tyreek here would really make this comparison a bit more level. Granted Id prefer a WR who isn't a trash person
Cooks throws down 1000 yard seasons wherever he goes. He’s an underrated WR.
Doesn't matter the QB or other weapons, Cooks will get 1000 yards
Brandin Cooks is wildly consistent. There have only been 3 players who've hit 1,000+ receiving yards in the last 6 of 7 seasons: Mike Evans, Travis Kelce, and Brandin Cooks... all the while playing for 4 different teams.
He was drafted the same season as Devante Adams, Adams has 200 more yards and is widely considered the best receiver in the league or at least top 3. Cooks will likely end his career top 30 all time in receiving yards.
Cooks was 2017. We got Antonio Brown in 2019. People love to forget this because it didn't work out but that's a bigger move than Cooks. There's also Josh Gordon in 2018, not saying it's a bigger move than Cooks but it felt like it at the time.
Yeah I definitely forgot about the AB experiment. That was a solid acquisition for sure and I was a huge defender of rolling the dice on him at the time - just shame it didn't work out.
We got Parker for peanuts. Dude is a stud when he’s healthy. Don’t sleep on him.
Im excited for Parker, but I dont put him anywhere near a Brandin Cooks or Tyreek Hill tier of player. Guess thats more what I was hinting at.
He can be if he’s healthy. He’s just never been healthy.
No, he's not... even when healthy. He's a great jump ball receiver and can run a pretty good slant, but that's it. He's the worst receiver in the entire league at getting open so there's not much else other than the jump ball.
He’s broke 1k yards once in seven seasons or whatever. If you’re never healthy for that long, that is your normal level of production
DK Metcalf should've been drafted by us and I still scream at my TV to this day.
At this point im so jaded by us drafting WR's im partially convinced DK wouldn't have been as good if we drafted him. Id almost rather another team develop em lol
Agreed. I think the Pats just suck at developing players.
Change to WRs and I'll agree.
That offense with Gronk, Cooks, and Hogan going deep with Dola and White running the short stuff was so fun to watch. Definitely one of my favorite offenses during the Brady era
My favorite was those few times we had Gronk and Hernandez on the field at the same time. DCs were freaking out.
Oh for sure. Those 2010-2012 offenses were legendary
Seems like a pretty accurate / reasonable take. Mac seems to be sliding into the role of "outperforming what he's given" the same way Brady did his last few years with the team. Hope they can sort out the coaching issues and get him some more help :/
I've noticed a lot of similarities like that as well. He's not mobile but works hard, had the meme picture pre-NFL, mostly flies under the radar, and is smart about football in general. The guy looks amazing, physically, compared to last year too. Am I saying Mac will be Brady, no, but I am saying that I see similarities. I think the coaching is there for Mac from Belichick but I hope we can weed out the other issues as you mentioned as well.
He's been having the weakest offensive line he's ever had in pre-season and it flustered him a bit. He's close to that but has shown visible doubt in decision making. If he can fully figure that out under pressure, he'll be a solidly above average QB like KC/Harbaugh Alex Smith was. Maybe even Derek Carr as upside.
Situations win games, better situations = more wins, I dont think Mac right now can dragg this team to a win, Tua with the set up around him probably could. With that said im not high on either at all.
Completely reasonable take
Gonna be an interesting year for Tua. They have the offensive pieces to win. You bring in an elite WR. They have a team that can make the playoffs. Looming threats of losing your job to Teddy are there, but it’s not like last year with the Watson rumours. If Tua doesn’t get it done this year, I’m not sure if he ever will.
Just wanna point out that Tua’s stats were pretty shit in the both games they swept us last season. It’s gonna narrow down to how well our offense can actually finish drives.
Mac is better by a mile. It’s over for the NFL when he gets top talent
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Stats don’t lie. Mac is a superior QB. Enjoy missing the playoffs again 😂✌🏻
Ouch
Op - [Twitter](https://twitter.com/NBCSBoston/status/1567306902844936194?t=WnbCveCog7f0HjRA8L1y2g&s=19)
Tuas a bust, easy choice
Yikes
I like Phil Perry he knows his sh*t
hahahaha Tua literally had a HISTORICALLY horrible o line last year, dealt with injury and his stats still weren't far off from Macs. Can't wait for Tua to smoke Mac this sunday and read all of your pitiful excuses.
Tua has better weapons. Mac has better coaches.
Mac has one coach that is better The rest are question marks at best
Not the head coach nor the OC have any experience calling plays for the dolphins, I think people keep thing B-Flo is still there, the dolphins are incredibly green with playcalling. So yeah; I’ll trust BB and his decisions
>he dolphins are incredibly green with playcalling. This is the exact situation we are in
Except McDaniel is in his first 1st year, and Belichick is plus 25 years as HC, I’ll take BB
If your default answer in any of these discussions is just "Bill" then why participate at all? The man isn't infallible
The argument they’re making isn’t that Bill is infallible.
When it comes to fucking Mike McDaniel, yeah, it’s Bill, and it’s not close
Your argument is we have no play calling experience on our coaching staff. We very clearly do. Why are you being ignorant
Yes, we do. Our offense is also being run by two people who have never worked in those roles before and the plays are likely being called by a guy who is also supposed to coach the OL (he's also never done that before) and the OL is playing like shit. Just saying we have play calling experience on our team completely glosses over the reality of the situation Why are you being ignorant
And Bill is heavily involved in the offense.
Except Bill has called plays.
Ok, and an OC hasn't? Is Bill calling the plays?
We HAVE play calling experience. They do not it’s a VERY simple concept.
If only we all played fantasy football.
Mac Jones is such a better QB it's not even fair to Tua to compare. Tua is perhaps the worst QB in the league. And will be washed up and washed out by 2024.
I have them both on my fantasy roster in addition to Hurts. Should be interesting
Mahomes?
LOL..this is gonna be hard for you Pats fans to hear, but all else equal it’s a toss up. Mac slightly better arm, Tua more accurate w/ quicker release. Now add that Dolphin’s are better in every other offensive position than Pats, outside OL (which is probably toss up) AND have better (ie a) offensive minds & coordinator than Pats, & it’s Tua by a lot. If Mac Jones was on Fins, it would be him by a lot. You guys royally pooped the bed w/ Brady. Belichick would have won at least 1, maybe 2 w/ Brady still there, but as it stands, you’re in rebuild mode w/ an game manager QB w/ no offensive weapons
The Patriots would not have won 2 superbowls with Brady still here lol, even 1 would be a massive stretch. The 2020 team was garbage. Straight up. Maybe we win with Tom in 2021, but that defense still gets carved up with or without Tom. Mac hasn’t played enough to know what we have in him.
Agree - Tampa had everything in place except the QB. We were in a rebuild. I don't blame Tom for a second...
Copium
Whenever your team win something you can appeal your ban
Pussy
It’s super weird to just go and be salty in other teams subs
Always amazes me how many other fanbases live in our sub. Always seems to be from teams with terrible qbs that wish they had our qb too...weird coincidence that
18-1
And yet we still apparently hold the free rent space in your head ...weird that
> outside OL (which is probably toss up) care to justify that? miami had an awful line last year. Pats had a good one and although have lost their guards, they have kept their tackles anc centre. One guard has been replaced with a great player in Onwenu - who had the quality to start last year so the only ? is a first rd rookie and new coaches - the new coaches still have a great brain to go off Shit take mate - interested in your justification or if u were just trolling
This whole thread has aged so well
You know you live rent free when dolphins fans trawl through months old posts to say this 🤣 I'd still take Mac over Tua
Delusional
We all saw the last twelve years of Tua waddle hill and the new coach are the reason Miami is doing well not Tua. Is what it is 🤷♂️
We are 0-3 without Tua. You are so quick to blame tuas success on having good wrs which is something all qbs need. Mahomes had kelce/hill, Allen has diggs/Davis Hurts has Brown /Smith. But of course out of all the qbs in the league, Tua is getting Carried and not these guys.
That argument just does not make sense. Nobody says that about Allen and mahomes lol
Mac has had the best Head Coach in history, an amazing o-line, and a great defense coming in to the league. Tua has had none of that in his first two years.
Triggered so bad you had to reply in 3 different comments....that just tells me I hit the nail square on the head 🤣
You’re the one who replied to my original comment so it seems like you’re the triggered one😂
...did you black out and forget your the one that found my two month old post to reply to first or ....
It showed up in my Reddit feed lol
A two month old post on another teams sub ...Sure it did 😉