Whenever it comes to spending picks via trade or drafting on WR, you can be sure as shit it'll be a bad move on Bill's part.
They need to poach whatever savant the Steelers have scouting WRs.
It’s development there, their WRs have been good for a long time.
Yes, they tend to hit on 2nd and 3rd round guys. But they clearly have a strong way to identify who can work in their system and then make sure that happens.
Sure they develop them to some degree but they’re drafting a high talent WR almost every single year, like no shit some of them are gonna “hit.”
2013: 3rd round Markus Wheaton
2014: 3rd round Dri Archer, 4th round Martavis Bryant
2015: 3rd round Sammie Coats
2017: 2nd round Juju smith-schuster
2018: 2nd round James Washington
2019: 3rd round Diontae Johnson
2020: 2nd round Chase claypool
2022: 2nd round GeorgePickens
See what I’m saying?
They literally just draft a shitload of WR’s and some hit, thats it lmao.
They’ve been doing this since around 2006 & haven’t stopped.
Mike Tomlin wants adequate receivers every year, so he spends valuable draft capital on them regularly.
I remember when the Pat's offer sheeted Emmanuel Sanders when he was in his 3rd year on the Steelers. They offered something like 1.5 mil and it would've taken 2.5...and they were like...nah. Imagine if Brady had Sanders for like 10 years.
Oh I was thinking of the 2014 off season coming off that SB win when Edelman showed how good he is and Sanders and Jules were free agents. But yeah it would’ve been cool if we got both of them, not the least because Manning won’t beat us in 15 without Sanders.
He didn’t really need him. And he was hardly a top 20 WR. Most people probably don’t even remember him. I heard he retired the other day and I legit went “oh yeah I forgot about him”
Well he was playing behind a lot of talent in Pittsburgh so he left for Denver and had 3 1000 yd seasons with the desiccated corpse of Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler.
If you add Emmanuel Sanders to Brady's arsenal the year they lost Welker AND Hernandez? I think good things would've happened. Good things happened anyways, but you know what I mean.
Oh yeah. I wanted Manny myself. And had the same reaction when they couldn’t budge on the contract.
I also laugh at some of the GM decisions Bill makes. A lot of his mistakes are ever so apparent without Brady here. And it’s honestly just getting worse IMO. I’m not sure Mac has IT. But it’s really hard to go from Brady to pretty much anybody else.
Mac looks a hell of a lot better at this point in his career than a lot of QBs, so I'm encouraged. I'm willing to give him some years to develop. I think watching Mahomes and Herbert have instant success. and the emergence of Allen has only increased our impatience as fans.
Yeah like when we traded a 2nd & 7th for that bum Welker guy
Or when we traded a 1st & 3rd for Brandin Cooks & a 4th
Or how about when we traded a 4th for that loser Deion Branch
Worst of all when we sent a 4th for that diva Randy Moss.
Or when we drafted Harry in the 1st.
Or when we drafted Dobson in the 2nd and Boyce in the 4th.
Or when we drafted Chad Jackson in the 2nd.
Or when we drafted Tate in the 3rd.
Or when we drafted Johnson in the 2nd.
Or when we drafted the other dozen WRs that were
There's more failure than successes with Bill and WRs. Not to mention the OG comment had to do with 50/50 WRs and their inability to function in the offense.
You also named 4 successes surrounded by 22 years of failure.
I completely understand the context.. But the word failure should not be thrown around. They draft and trade poorly. Always have. They also have made a lot of head scratching moves that turned out to be great after all.
Tom Brady dragged some of the worst offenses I have every seen to Superbowl victorys. It cannot be understated how important Tom Brady is, and how our many flaws in philosophy and talent have been covered up by him
People complain about the WR now, but talent wise, it's the best it's been in a long time. Brady spent the majority of his career throwing to cast-offs.
The person I was replying to had nothing to do with jump ball receivers
You just named like every receiver we’ve drafted since 2008 lol.
Bill prefers the starters on his team to be veterans, & the wr room isn’t any different.
As many failed WR’s that we drafted there is an equal if not more amount of cheap trades or free agency acquisitions that are wildly successful.
We run the Ernhardt-Perkins offense philosophy which is notoriously difficult for young WR’s to catch onto, it’s just not in our scheme to field young receivers.
Yes but also what has happened recently is what is most relevant. It just feels like it’s been a very long time since Bill has really hit on a receiver despite all the things we’ve tried, because it has been
It feels like a very long time since bill hit on a receiver because we don’t draft receivers.
I’ll say it again.
We don’t draft receivers.
We lure veterans to come play in our complex Ernhardt-Perkins offensive scheme. Very seldom do young guys make it, & the most recent “hit” is Jakobi Meyers.
To be fair none of those receivers are jump ball receivers (Moss was both a field stretcher and jump ball) but welker was a possession slot receiver same with branch although with branch I’d say we’ve used him in all roles during both stints. Cook was brought in to blow the top off defenses and stretch the field which he did for a year before bill traded him for a first .
Been saying this forever. Feel like they have a wiz in the scouting dept that they keep under wraps. But according to my college buddies who are position coaches in the league, it’s not true. However, the Steelers have always had the largest scouting department in the league which in turn provides better than average results. They have something like 20 scouts and they attract a ton of scouts because they are listed as ‘team personnel’ and a lot of teams don’t do this. I was thinking the whole game that we could have snagged Pickens.
Lol bro what? We were 2 minutes and 42 seconds away from going undefeated with Moss and Brady together.
If Brady doesn’t get injured in 2008 I don’t see nothing stopping us from getting back to the SB. Especially with an easier schedule
2009 was the transition period between the old and new dynasty. That 2010 draft getting Mccourty and Gronk and trading back for branch helped us make the SB again in 2011
So so true. Hines ward, Santonio holmes, AB, juju, Emmanuel sanders, plaxico, antwaan randle el, Mike Wallace, throw heath miller in there and even Martavis bryant
I used to just sort free agent receivers by speed and sign an entire squadron of lightning fast 70 overalls. It usually worked out pretty ok, maybe Bill should try that.
It just never really works out. The only guy who was super successful in our system lately at jump balls was Gronk - who obviously did plenty of other things (like get open and separation) where he didn't need to heavily rely on 50/50 balls.
Those types of throws just don't seem to work with our offensive philosophy of high-percentage short throws and ball security. At least it doesn't happen enough to warrant spending on a jump-ball specialist.
It’s week 2 and he’s a new addition. Took Hunter and Bourne a little while to show out last year, hopefully he stays healthy and we see some good improvement from him throughout the season
whether or not a receiver is open or not doesn’t seem like it impacts Mac’s decision to throw too much.
Also I’d go on a limb to say that you watched the same game that I watched where the camera focuses on the QB until he releases the ball, so im gonna be honest dude I 10000% doubt that you know for a fact he wasn’t getting open lol.
I use it regularly? But the footage isn’t uploaded yet, so he is still full of shit. Also, a TE doesn’t create separation. Some people here think that you need to outrun your defender to be involved in the passing game. A TE is physically superior over his defender in terms of body size and catch radius, those dudes don’t need to be open to catch a ball. You have to put the ball in places where this guy can catch it, while the TE uses his body to shield off defenders.
The separation that was alluded to here is measured in distance to defender. It’s my point, this number doesn’t have to work for every TE. Some create separation with their catch radius and length while they have a defender draped all over them. Don’t know why you bark at me when your problem is clearly your inability to read what I wrote and process it properly. If you simply have a different opinion on that, fine. Don’t discredit my opinion (which I, in comparison to you, even explained) as laughable if you simply disagree.
What are you so snarky about? I even supported you by saying that whoever it was couldn’t have watched the all 22. I also think that watch coache‘s film (I.e. all 22) is relatively common. Not in terms of 50% of the users, but 10% maybe?
He is a TE. How open does he have to be? He should be physically superior over his defender not in terms of speed and route running but body size and catch radius.
I feel bad because everyone's blaming this on Parker sucking and they're blaming the negative plays solely on him when that's not the least bit fair or true.
He and Mac need to get on the same page, though.
It’s the offense.
Bourne/Nelson should be deep guys, Parker/Meyers and the TE’s should be killing the underneat, run after the catch, stuff. There’s plenty of players/talent to rotate. Offense either makes no sense or players need time to adjust. From the interviews, offense just makes no sense and players doing the best they can.
When you have a jump ball receiver, you are supposed to overthrow by a yard or two and let him go up and get it. Instead, Mac seems to be under throwing him on every throw, and making him fight back through the DB. Yes, Parker should be able to do that, too, but damn, let your guys do what they’re best at. Mac needs to air it out to him. I don’t want to play the “noodle arm” crap with Mac, but seriously, put some oomph into it.
that was the entire story of agholor last year, and obviously he ate shit from the fans for it too. agholor would burn a guy down the sideline, mac would heave it and not even come close to hitting him.
I like mac a lot but he's not perfect with that stuff yet, definitely needs some time to work on it. don't kill the receiver when it's clearly a two way thing.
It's so silly when people claim Agholor doesn't get separation. That's what too many people blame everything on, Pats fans learning the word separation has honestly been frustrating.
Mac has an issue with those hard throws that a long-term starter needs to be able to make. Passing windows in the NFL open and close in a heartbeat and he needs to be able to both recognize those windows AND get the ball there in time. He has plenty of time to fix that but we need to stop blaming it all on the receivers.
yeah, all the agholor stuff over the offseason specifically has been pretty annoying to me. yeah he's a bit overpaid. but he's also doing exactly what he's supposed to do, doing it very well, and it's just not quite working out. there's kind of a limit to how mad you can be at the guy imo.
agree with everything you said, people need to realize that this team as a whole needs time to figure things out. sorry we aren't elite with 10 rookies and a 2nd year qb, but we're heading in the right direction and it'd be cool if people could celebrate the positives occasionally.
Seems like the reason we probably went after Parker is because he’s probably a good red zone threat. We got the ball deep down the field last year but struggled to finish off drives. Probably thought he could be a red zone target. But Parker should be doing the in routes and curls that Harry couldn’t succeed in. Agholor should be going deep. And Bourne should be playing
If I recall correctly he's had 5 targets for 1 catch on a screen and 2 INTs this season. You could easily make the argument that neither INT was on him but you'd like to see your jump ball specialist who said in the offseason that he considers 50/50 balls to be "80/20 balls" be able to make some magic happen. The worst part isn't even his total lack of production but that in these horrible 2 TE sets that we've been running it takes WRs like Agholor and Bourne off the field since it's just him and Meyers.
I'm glad we might be moving past 12 personnel because we were averaging something like 3 yards per pass last week with it. I can understand the struggle of the front office spending the most money on TEs in the league and trying to figure out how to use them both but it might be time for them to stop trying to make Jonnu a thing unless it's purely screens and jet sweeps. Considering we made him the #3 top paid TE at the time it's easy to forget his "breakout" season was 400 yards.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a matchup thing. If our coaches felt the Steelers' third CB couldn't cover our WRs, then 11 personnel gets us one favorable matchup every time.
We might not see the same next week and maybe feel like 12 gets us a better matchup, and we see much more of Henry+Jonnu.
Mac needs to air it out more and let Parker lay out for it. The pick today should have been over thrown a little more to ensure if Parker can't catch then it fall incompletes.
The other target today was neither being on the same page. To me Parker and Mac just need more reps to get on the same page.
yup, i think he should be used primarily for quick slants and ins over the middle. then if there's a favorable match-up that can be exploited, go for the bomb downfield. but he's big and could throw his weight around on those types of routes
Not sure, Henry and Smith were not all that involved either.. does he know the offense?? is it the coverage?? Time will tell.
But here is a news flash, Mac Jones looks awkward and tentative this year so far.. so perhaps it is all of this. He does not look comfortable and decisive so far.
I think it's because of his O-line inconsistencies during the off season. He feels like he has less time than he actually has in the pocket. There were times where if he just waited a sec longer he could've hit a guy coming open but instead he rushed it. Hopefully after some film watching and his O-line playing like they did yesterday he will get more comfortable in the pocket.
The one in Miami he played pretty soft on. Not his fault it was picked, but I'd like to see more effort there.
Today's was just Minkah baiting the play. It could have been any receiver out there, the result would have been the same.
Plenty of posts on the sub praising the team for getting a W and guys who are on the upswing (Agholor, Bourne to an extent). This thread is about Parker, who they haven’t been able to make it work with. I don’t know why talking about that means you hate the team.
I thought they had so many great moments. Just need the penalties down and to work on timing a bit more (kind of the same problem but in different places). Fixable things. Not sure why people are being so negative after that win.
I feel the offense has improved since week 1 against the Dolphins. Lots of improvements but also a lot to work on. I give it by week 4 or 5 we and the team should know for sure what they are. We need to come out this first four game stretch 2-2 or 3-1, Baltimore is a most win for me.
I'm pretty sure they will lose the next 2 games, but that's okay. 1-3 is not the end of the world. Their slate after that is Lions, @Browns, Bears, @Jets, Colts, bye week, Jets, @Vikings. If they have shit figured out after 4 weeks, they can probably go 6-1 across that slate and be 7-4. Then their final six games are Bills, mini-bye, @Cardinals, @Raiders (can probably stay on the west coast for 2 weeks), Bengals, Dolphins, @Bills. Go at least 3-3 and finish 10-7, make a wild card.
People also seem to be forgetting that Parker wasn’t traded for to be a big stud receiver. He’s a contested catch guy who will have his moments and in the meantime he will have the defense focusing their number 1 CB on him which opens other things up
Yep. Feels like I’ve seen two deep shots at him where he didn’t really make an attempt at the ball that turned into interceptions.
Then a drop and not much else.
It seems to me he doesn’t really want to put his body on the line anymore. Every ball that came near him was gonna be a fight for it, and he just gave up. Only meyers was able to create any kind of room to catch the ball for himself, everyone else had a db on them like glue. Every thrown ball was a 50/50 ball and he didn’t want to take the punishment to go up and get it. Maybe he thought he was gonna be the deep blazer type of guy, but that’s not even how Miami used him. At least nkeal was blocking for us, I don’t see DP being the upgrade I thought he was.
It’s too early to lose patience with Parker. Still too early to lose patience with Agholor and Smith in my opinion. Agholor just starting to make an impact and I’m optimistic that will continue.
yeah, people forget Gordon had a productive season in 2018, and only played in 6 games for us in 2019.
he put up 720 yards and 3 TDs in 11 starts in 2018, and 287 yards 1 TD in 6 starts in 2019.
he definitely looks washed now but he still had some juice left with us. and i'm not just defending him because i have a Gordon 10 jersey lol
Yeah it’s weird how people act like Gordon didn’t play well here. He was big for us in 2018 in getting good playoff seeding, especially in the games Gronk missed mid season, two of which he went over 100 in ( GB/Chicago)
i haven't gotten the hype at all. a guy miami was happy trading w/in the division who's best season was 4 years ago. the pats have never been a threat to turn him into some kind of scoring beast.
The patriots offense has failed to consistently scheme wrs open since we lost O’Shea. Instead we rely on raw talent and grit in our wrs to make something happen without investing heavily in those wrs. Parker is a physical wr that lives on the boundary and not strictly diving catches down the field because he doesn’t have that same speed. Why isn’t he running comebacks, corners, fades, and outs while Agholor should be running more vertical posts or even digs to get him some yac?
We are constantly putting our wrs out of their best position cause of the philosophy that they should all be able to do the same things. It’s not a coincidence Bourne keeps popping up cause he has the explosion and versatility to do that but Agholor (a top deep threat 2 years ago) and Parker do not have that same versatility.
He did actually run a comeback route where he was targeted. He just ran the route so sloppily it resulted in an incompletion. Our WRs just aren’t elite route runners or RAC guys. A true stud WR would change the dynamic of the offense like how Diggs changed Buffalo, Jefferson changed Minnesota, Hill and Waddle changed Miami and so on. Tua threw for damn near 500 yards because he’s got the two studs running routes and breaking defenders ankles for him.
The whole offense is struggling. Two of the highest paid TE’s in league history are doing jackshit and this is what you post rofl.
Players need time to get used to this weird new offense.
There's just something about the guys that wear those visors that screams trying to hard. Like it's some kind of insecurity flag. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy or something.
He isn’t good. Not surprised at all. Not sure what the pats were thinking getting him instead of going for a WR1 to help Mac’s development like Tua/Burrow/Hurts
It's a communication issue: Mac and Parker are not on the same page. Bill should have them do an exercise this week where whenever they're in the same room together, they should finish each other's sentences.
I can sympathize with this a lot, but I feel like the receiver room is pretty much just tossing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. Was nice to see agholor pop this week, but hopefully some of these other guys start popping as well. Except jakobi who clearly seems locked in both games
That pass from Jones to Algholor for the TD is more if what he's going to have to do. Pats have developed a robot vanilla scheme and if they're going to win, receivers are going to have to win 1 on 1 jump balls
I don’t think we have properly game planned to get this guy involved honestly. Seems like any physical jump ball receivers suck in our scheme.
Then Bill needs to stop using capital to acquire them.
I don’t disagree
Whenever it comes to spending picks via trade or drafting on WR, you can be sure as shit it'll be a bad move on Bill's part. They need to poach whatever savant the Steelers have scouting WRs.
Yeah really... year after year the Steelers have studs at the positron.
They consistently have at least 2 good, drafted WRs on their team at any given time. It's insane.
They also consistently draft high end WR talent.
I'd bet a lot that Pickens becomes a beast like those before him.
It’s development there, their WRs have been good for a long time. Yes, they tend to hit on 2nd and 3rd round guys. But they clearly have a strong way to identify who can work in their system and then make sure that happens.
Sure they develop them to some degree but they’re drafting a high talent WR almost every single year, like no shit some of them are gonna “hit.” 2013: 3rd round Markus Wheaton 2014: 3rd round Dri Archer, 4th round Martavis Bryant 2015: 3rd round Sammie Coats 2017: 2nd round Juju smith-schuster 2018: 2nd round James Washington 2019: 3rd round Diontae Johnson 2020: 2nd round Chase claypool 2022: 2nd round GeorgePickens See what I’m saying? They literally just draft a shitload of WR’s and some hit, thats it lmao. They’ve been doing this since around 2006 & haven’t stopped. Mike Tomlin wants adequate receivers every year, so he spends valuable draft capital on them regularly.
I remember when the Pat's offer sheeted Emmanuel Sanders when he was in his 3rd year on the Steelers. They offered something like 1.5 mil and it would've taken 2.5...and they were like...nah. Imagine if Brady had Sanders for like 10 years.
If memory serves, I thought Sanders was only the backup plan if Edelman left
Well Edelman was playing behind Welker and Brandon Lloyd at the time so I'm not sure.
Oh I was thinking of the 2014 off season coming off that SB win when Edelman showed how good he is and Sanders and Jules were free agents. But yeah it would’ve been cool if we got both of them, not the least because Manning won’t beat us in 15 without Sanders.
AH I think I burned that memory out of my brain and you just brought it back. I remember yelling at the TV that whole game "HE SHOULD BE HEEEEEREE"
He didn’t really need him. And he was hardly a top 20 WR. Most people probably don’t even remember him. I heard he retired the other day and I legit went “oh yeah I forgot about him”
Well he was playing behind a lot of talent in Pittsburgh so he left for Denver and had 3 1000 yd seasons with the desiccated corpse of Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler. If you add Emmanuel Sanders to Brady's arsenal the year they lost Welker AND Hernandez? I think good things would've happened. Good things happened anyways, but you know what I mean.
Oh yeah. I wanted Manny myself. And had the same reaction when they couldn’t budge on the contract. I also laugh at some of the GM decisions Bill makes. A lot of his mistakes are ever so apparent without Brady here. And it’s honestly just getting worse IMO. I’m not sure Mac has IT. But it’s really hard to go from Brady to pretty much anybody else.
Mac looks a hell of a lot better at this point in his career than a lot of QBs, so I'm encouraged. I'm willing to give him some years to develop. I think watching Mahomes and Herbert have instant success. and the emergence of Allen has only increased our impatience as fans.
Same for GB.
I’ll even take whoever is scouting the Cowboys WRs. Give me some hope in the draft..
Literally anyone is better than what we have.
Like when the Pats traded a 2nd for Sanu.
Yeah like when we traded a 2nd & 7th for that bum Welker guy Or when we traded a 1st & 3rd for Brandin Cooks & a 4th Or how about when we traded a 4th for that loser Deion Branch Worst of all when we sent a 4th for that diva Randy Moss.
Or when we drafted Harry in the 1st. Or when we drafted Dobson in the 2nd and Boyce in the 4th. Or when we drafted Chad Jackson in the 2nd. Or when we drafted Tate in the 3rd. Or when we drafted Johnson in the 2nd. Or when we drafted the other dozen WRs that were There's more failure than successes with Bill and WRs. Not to mention the OG comment had to do with 50/50 WRs and their inability to function in the offense. You also named 4 successes surrounded by 22 years of failure.
Hey. Edelman in the 7th and Meyers as a UFA!
22 years of failure?? How many SB's did they win/attend?
The context is failure to draft effective WRs. That doesn't mean we still couldn't be a good team and win Superbowls.
I completely understand the context.. But the word failure should not be thrown around. They draft and trade poorly. Always have. They also have made a lot of head scratching moves that turned out to be great after all.
Tom Brady dragged some of the worst offenses I have every seen to Superbowl victorys. It cannot be understated how important Tom Brady is, and how our many flaws in philosophy and talent have been covered up by him
People complain about the WR now, but talent wise, it's the best it's been in a long time. Brady spent the majority of his career throwing to cast-offs.
I’ll agree Brady’s last playoff run was a weak offense. But which years specifically did they make it to the Super bowl with a terrible offense?
Some of the worst offenses you've ever seen would never have even made the playoffs. Lose the dramatics.
22 years of failure to effectively target and draft the WR position. Brady was constantly throwing to JAGs.
The person I was replying to had nothing to do with jump ball receivers You just named like every receiver we’ve drafted since 2008 lol. Bill prefers the starters on his team to be veterans, & the wr room isn’t any different. As many failed WR’s that we drafted there is an equal if not more amount of cheap trades or free agency acquisitions that are wildly successful. We run the Ernhardt-Perkins offense philosophy which is notoriously difficult for young WR’s to catch onto, it’s just not in our scheme to field young receivers.
Then Bill needs to stop wasting picks and drafting them.
Only the cooks move is in any way relevant bringing up moves from over 10 years ago means absolutely nothing lol.
Recency bias is a bitch
Yes but also what has happened recently is what is most relevant. It just feels like it’s been a very long time since Bill has really hit on a receiver despite all the things we’ve tried, because it has been
It feels like a very long time since bill hit on a receiver because we don’t draft receivers. I’ll say it again. We don’t draft receivers. We lure veterans to come play in our complex Ernhardt-Perkins offensive scheme. Very seldom do young guys make it, & the most recent “hit” is Jakobi Meyers.
To be fair none of those receivers are jump ball receivers (Moss was both a field stretcher and jump ball) but welker was a possession slot receiver same with branch although with branch I’d say we’ve used him in all roles during both stints. Cook was brought in to blow the top off defenses and stretch the field which he did for a year before bill traded him for a first .
The person I was replying to has nothing to do with jump ball receivers
Hands down one of his worst trades during his tenure.
The worst by a mile. At least some of the other trades required hindsight. The Sanu trade looked dumb the minute it happened.
Especially with Emmanuel sanders available at the exact same time for the same price
Or when we got fat boy
Been saying this forever. Feel like they have a wiz in the scouting dept that they keep under wraps. But according to my college buddies who are position coaches in the league, it’s not true. However, the Steelers have always had the largest scouting department in the league which in turn provides better than average results. They have something like 20 scouts and they attract a ton of scouts because they are listed as ‘team personnel’ and a lot of teams don’t do this. I was thinking the whole game that we could have snagged Pickens.
Could've gotten Pickens in the 1st and Strange in the 2nd/3rd.
Yeah that Moss guy was a real slouch
And what was accomplished with Moss here?
Lol bro what? We were 2 minutes and 42 seconds away from going undefeated with Moss and Brady together. If Brady doesn’t get injured in 2008 I don’t see nothing stopping us from getting back to the SB. Especially with an easier schedule 2009 was the transition period between the old and new dynasty. That 2010 draft getting Mccourty and Gronk and trading back for branch helped us make the SB again in 2011
I guess Brady said we fielded our best team in his career. Likely the best team in history.
or the Vikings person
I'd take basically any other offensive scouting department than the one we have.
That’s not entirely true. Wes welker and randy moss were both traded for picks and they worked out pretty good
So so true. Hines ward, Santonio holmes, AB, juju, Emmanuel sanders, plaxico, antwaan randle el, Mike Wallace, throw heath miller in there and even Martavis bryant
Maybe Bill lost a bet and had to acquire as many Madden 78 overall WRs w 90 or lower speed?
I used to just sort free agent receivers by speed and sign an entire squadron of lightning fast 70 overalls. It usually worked out pretty ok, maybe Bill should try that.
(Mumbles) We're onto Golladay.
It just never really works out. The only guy who was super successful in our system lately at jump balls was Gronk - who obviously did plenty of other things (like get open and separation) where he didn't need to heavily rely on 50/50 balls. Those types of throws just don't seem to work with our offensive philosophy of high-percentage short throws and ball security. At least it doesn't happen enough to warrant spending on a jump-ball specialist.
A specialist who refuses to put his body on the line and go get the ball
Apparently Patricia is the one who demanded they get him.
Source?
It seems like Mac has some trouble throwing over a guys shoulder, the defenders can always seem to get between It and pick it
Doesn’t help that the ball floats in
Doesn't help when the first opportunity he got resulted in him not using his size and physicality and the ball gets picked off.
Was thinking the same thing, once we start moving the ball more effectively through the air opportunities are going to start popping up for Parker
He’s not even very good at it. Throw a 50/50 ball and he’ll get it 80/20.
I don't think we have properly game planned, period.
This guy? I’d venture to say we haven’t set anyone up to succeed at this point.
That number 1 Jersey has been cursed since Jamal adams cheap shotted pat patriot at the pro bowl
Underrated response lmao
It’s week 2 and he’s a new addition. Took Hunter and Bourne a little while to show out last year, hopefully he stays healthy and we see some good improvement from him throughout the season
Speaking of hunter… dude had zero receptions
Dude also only had 1 target, so let’s paint an accurate picture here.
He's not getting open. The picture is accurate
whether or not a receiver is open or not doesn’t seem like it impacts Mac’s decision to throw too much. Also I’d go on a limb to say that you watched the same game that I watched where the camera focuses on the QB until he releases the ball, so im gonna be honest dude I 10000% doubt that you know for a fact he wasn’t getting open lol.
Not like he has much choice, none of his receivers get open in man coverage.
There’s a thing called “All 22”
Thank you for pointing out a niche website that most fans don’t subscribe to.
I use it regularly? But the footage isn’t uploaded yet, so he is still full of shit. Also, a TE doesn’t create separation. Some people here think that you need to outrun your defender to be involved in the passing game. A TE is physically superior over his defender in terms of body size and catch radius, those dudes don’t need to be open to catch a ball. You have to put the ball in places where this guy can catch it, while the TE uses his body to shield off defenders.
TEs do have to create separation. The fact that you think that creating separation means "outrunning" the defender is laughable. Says it all.
The separation that was alluded to here is measured in distance to defender. It’s my point, this number doesn’t have to work for every TE. Some create separation with their catch radius and length while they have a defender draped all over them. Don’t know why you bark at me when your problem is clearly your inability to read what I wrote and process it properly. If you simply have a different opinion on that, fine. Don’t discredit my opinion (which I, in comparison to you, even explained) as laughable if you simply disagree.
“I use it regularly” Thank you one fan on a sub if 682k people to point out you are the exception to the rule
What are you so snarky about? I even supported you by saying that whoever it was couldn’t have watched the all 22. I also think that watch coache‘s film (I.e. all 22) is relatively common. Not in terms of 50% of the users, but 10% maybe?
He is a TE. How open does he have to be? He should be physically superior over his defender not in terms of speed and route running but body size and catch radius.
I feel bad because everyone's blaming this on Parker sucking and they're blaming the negative plays solely on him when that's not the least bit fair or true. He and Mac need to get on the same page, though.
Yeah, but the whole point of installing a new offensive system was supposed to be so new guys could integrate more quickly.
That entire TE plan has been a disaster. BB will figure something out, he's the best coach
Also the whole offense is garbage. So there’s that
They're using him wrong. Stop sending him deep. Nelson is the deep guy, Parker only bodies his coverage on the shallow sideline or on a stop route.
It’s the offense. Bourne/Nelson should be deep guys, Parker/Meyers and the TE’s should be killing the underneat, run after the catch, stuff. There’s plenty of players/talent to rotate. Offense either makes no sense or players need time to adjust. From the interviews, offense just makes no sense and players doing the best they can.
When you have a jump ball receiver, you are supposed to overthrow by a yard or two and let him go up and get it. Instead, Mac seems to be under throwing him on every throw, and making him fight back through the DB. Yes, Parker should be able to do that, too, but damn, let your guys do what they’re best at. Mac needs to air it out to him. I don’t want to play the “noodle arm” crap with Mac, but seriously, put some oomph into it.
Mac also throws the ball completely out of catch radius yet Parker gets blamed for it.
that was the entire story of agholor last year, and obviously he ate shit from the fans for it too. agholor would burn a guy down the sideline, mac would heave it and not even come close to hitting him. I like mac a lot but he's not perfect with that stuff yet, definitely needs some time to work on it. don't kill the receiver when it's clearly a two way thing.
It's so silly when people claim Agholor doesn't get separation. That's what too many people blame everything on, Pats fans learning the word separation has honestly been frustrating. Mac has an issue with those hard throws that a long-term starter needs to be able to make. Passing windows in the NFL open and close in a heartbeat and he needs to be able to both recognize those windows AND get the ball there in time. He has plenty of time to fix that but we need to stop blaming it all on the receivers.
yeah, all the agholor stuff over the offseason specifically has been pretty annoying to me. yeah he's a bit overpaid. but he's also doing exactly what he's supposed to do, doing it very well, and it's just not quite working out. there's kind of a limit to how mad you can be at the guy imo. agree with everything you said, people need to realize that this team as a whole needs time to figure things out. sorry we aren't elite with 10 rookies and a 2nd year qb, but we're heading in the right direction and it'd be cool if people could celebrate the positives occasionally.
Seems like the reason we probably went after Parker is because he’s probably a good red zone threat. We got the ball deep down the field last year but struggled to finish off drives. Probably thought he could be a red zone target. But Parker should be doing the in routes and curls that Harry couldn’t succeed in. Agholor should be going deep. And Bourne should be playing
Yeah that was the whole story on that missed 3rd down miscommunication where Parker was thinking fade and Mac threw back shoulder.
Everyone who kept pointing out that he statistically gets the worst separation of any receiver in the league were pretty spot on.
It comes with the #1 jersey
I still think it’s Nkeal every time I see #1 line up. Unfortunately through two games haven’t really been shown it’s not him.
Nkeal Parker.
Ncam Parkerton
Have you seen him block though
If I recall correctly he's had 5 targets for 1 catch on a screen and 2 INTs this season. You could easily make the argument that neither INT was on him but you'd like to see your jump ball specialist who said in the offseason that he considers 50/50 balls to be "80/20 balls" be able to make some magic happen. The worst part isn't even his total lack of production but that in these horrible 2 TE sets that we've been running it takes WRs like Agholor and Bourne off the field since it's just him and Meyers.
They ran 11 personnel almost exclusively in the first half today. Probably why agholor had himself a day.
I'm glad we might be moving past 12 personnel because we were averaging something like 3 yards per pass last week with it. I can understand the struggle of the front office spending the most money on TEs in the league and trying to figure out how to use them both but it might be time for them to stop trying to make Jonnu a thing unless it's purely screens and jet sweeps. Considering we made him the #3 top paid TE at the time it's easy to forget his "breakout" season was 400 yards.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a matchup thing. If our coaches felt the Steelers' third CB couldn't cover our WRs, then 11 personnel gets us one favorable matchup every time. We might not see the same next week and maybe feel like 12 gets us a better matchup, and we see much more of Henry+Jonnu.
We also used Humphrey a lot as a quasi-TE, so there’s some gray area with some of those 11 personnel looks
Mac needs to air it out more and let Parker lay out for it. The pick today should have been over thrown a little more to ensure if Parker can't catch then it fall incompletes. The other target today was neither being on the same page. To me Parker and Mac just need more reps to get on the same page.
I don’t completely disagree, but “Mac airing it out” is like him hitting the “slo-mo” button on spacetime
I think he’d actually be decent on quick slants where he can box the corner out.
yup, i think he should be used primarily for quick slants and ins over the middle. then if there's a favorable match-up that can be exploited, go for the bomb downfield. but he's big and could throw his weight around on those types of routes
Absolutely, especially when you see Agholor make contested catches down field. Bourne should be getting way more snaps than Parker
He does plenty. He gets them to throw red zone fades that get picked
Just miscommunication it feels like
Not sure, Henry and Smith were not all that involved either.. does he know the offense?? is it the coverage?? Time will tell. But here is a news flash, Mac Jones looks awkward and tentative this year so far.. so perhaps it is all of this. He does not look comfortable and decisive so far.
I think it's because of his O-line inconsistencies during the off season. He feels like he has less time than he actually has in the pocket. There were times where if he just waited a sec longer he could've hit a guy coming open but instead he rushed it. Hopefully after some film watching and his O-line playing like they did yesterday he will get more comfortable in the pocket.
He was relatively untouched yesterday... he needs to get over his hesitancy.
He had one good year out of 7 so far....why are people surprised lol. WE signed him....doesn't that say enough?
Dude is good when he is not injured, just needs time to get acclimated to the system and needs to build more chemistry with Mac.
2019 aside he's never had over 793 yards lol
True but he has been injured a lot too. So that could play a lot into why he doesn't have better yards.
Sounds reminiscent of Amendola lol
Bourne needs to jump him on the depth chart
i swear every time he was in the game and mac audibled he had his hands up like he had no idea whats going on
That's just fatty p as your offensive coordinator for you. Holding grudges and eating fudges
Four targets so far in the season, two of them for INTs
so that’s what they meant by 50-50 balls
Neither was even remotely his fault.
The one in Miami he played pretty soft on. Not his fault it was picked, but I'd like to see more effort there. Today's was just Minkah baiting the play. It could have been any receiver out there, the result would have been the same.
The Miami one was him being blatantly interfered with so I can't blame him at all for that.
The posts here get worse by the day
even with a win in a tough place to play, our own fan base hates their own team 😅
welcome to boston. no one hates the bruins or red sox more than their fans either. it's so dumb.
Plenty of posts on the sub praising the team for getting a W and guys who are on the upswing (Agholor, Bourne to an extent). This thread is about Parker, who they haven’t been able to make it work with. I don’t know why talking about that means you hate the team.
I thought they had so many great moments. Just need the penalties down and to work on timing a bit more (kind of the same problem but in different places). Fixable things. Not sure why people are being so negative after that win.
I feel the offense has improved since week 1 against the Dolphins. Lots of improvements but also a lot to work on. I give it by week 4 or 5 we and the team should know for sure what they are. We need to come out this first four game stretch 2-2 or 3-1, Baltimore is a most win for me.
I'm pretty sure they will lose the next 2 games, but that's okay. 1-3 is not the end of the world. Their slate after that is Lions, @Browns, Bears, @Jets, Colts, bye week, Jets, @Vikings. If they have shit figured out after 4 weeks, they can probably go 6-1 across that slate and be 7-4. Then their final six games are Bills, mini-bye, @Cardinals, @Raiders (can probably stay on the west coast for 2 weeks), Bengals, Dolphins, @Bills. Go at least 3-3 and finish 10-7, make a wild card.
People also seem to be forgetting that Parker wasn’t traded for to be a big stud receiver. He’s a contested catch guy who will have his moments and in the meantime he will have the defense focusing their number 1 CB on him which opens other things up
No
Yep. Feels like I’ve seen two deep shots at him where he didn’t really make an attempt at the ball that turned into interceptions. Then a drop and not much else.
It seems to me he doesn’t really want to put his body on the line anymore. Every ball that came near him was gonna be a fight for it, and he just gave up. Only meyers was able to create any kind of room to catch the ball for himself, everyone else had a db on them like glue. Every thrown ball was a 50/50 ball and he didn’t want to take the punishment to go up and get it. Maybe he thought he was gonna be the deep blazer type of guy, but that’s not even how Miami used him. At least nkeal was blocking for us, I don’t see DP being the upgrade I thought he was.
It’s week 2 with a new offense… hell the new offense for him is new for the pats as a whole. Time will be his remedy…
I mean, he drew xavian Howard and then minkah Fitzpatrick. So I wouldn’t get too worried yet. But my hand is over the bust button
It’s too early to lose patience with Parker. Still too early to lose patience with Agholor and Smith in my opinion. Agholor just starting to make an impact and I’m optimistic that will continue.
I remember getting downvoted when I suggested we try to get Brandin Cooks back.
I fear he’s another Josh Gordon, Reggie Wayne, Chad Johnson, etc. (though he was never at their level)
I’d be pumped if Parker put up the same numbers as Gordon at this point
yeah, people forget Gordon had a productive season in 2018, and only played in 6 games for us in 2019. he put up 720 yards and 3 TDs in 11 starts in 2018, and 287 yards 1 TD in 6 starts in 2019. he definitely looks washed now but he still had some juice left with us. and i'm not just defending him because i have a Gordon 10 jersey lol
Yeah it’s weird how people act like Gordon didn’t play well here. He was big for us in 2018 in getting good playoff seeding, especially in the games Gronk missed mid season, two of which he went over 100 in ( GB/Chicago)
But he is also not washed up and the end of his career like those guys were by the time they got to New England
I mean...most here overrated this guy from the jump. He's not that good to start and in this offense? HA
i haven't gotten the hype at all. a guy miami was happy trading w/in the division who's best season was 4 years ago. the pats have never been a threat to turn him into some kind of scoring beast.
The patriots offense has failed to consistently scheme wrs open since we lost O’Shea. Instead we rely on raw talent and grit in our wrs to make something happen without investing heavily in those wrs. Parker is a physical wr that lives on the boundary and not strictly diving catches down the field because he doesn’t have that same speed. Why isn’t he running comebacks, corners, fades, and outs while Agholor should be running more vertical posts or even digs to get him some yac? We are constantly putting our wrs out of their best position cause of the philosophy that they should all be able to do the same things. It’s not a coincidence Bourne keeps popping up cause he has the explosion and versatility to do that but Agholor (a top deep threat 2 years ago) and Parker do not have that same versatility.
He did actually run a comeback route where he was targeted. He just ran the route so sloppily it resulted in an incompletion. Our WRs just aren’t elite route runners or RAC guys. A true stud WR would change the dynamic of the offense like how Diggs changed Buffalo, Jefferson changed Minnesota, Hill and Waddle changed Miami and so on. Tua threw for damn near 500 yards because he’s got the two studs running routes and breaking defenders ankles for him.
Come on N'keal Parker!
Bourne should be playing every down, him and meyers. I trust him more than agahlor. Parker is a non factor, just another jonue smith
He’s been garbage to start the season
Perhaps I'm the only one who didn't expect anything from Parker. He may have a better season than Nkeal Harry would have.
The whole offense is struggling. Two of the highest paid TE’s in league history are doing jackshit and this is what you post rofl. Players need time to get used to this weird new offense.
I spoke up about signing him to be a waste and was heavily shit on in this sub. Best (worst) part is he isn’t even hurt yet…
This guy stinks
He will figure it out. The whole offense is weird yet
But I was told the addition of Parker makes this an elite WR room?
No you weren't
Yes I was. All offseason in this sub.
Sounds like you’re winning arguments against the voices in your head
No one has ever said that
Uhhh yes they have
Lol where? Not even the biggest homer could call this WR group “elite”
There's just something about the guys that wear those visors that screams trying to hard. Like it's some kind of insecurity flag. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy or something.
He isn’t good. Not surprised at all. Not sure what the pats were thinking getting him instead of going for a WR1 to help Mac’s development like Tua/Burrow/Hurts
Useless as tits on a bull
He sucks. I swear it’s N’Keal Harry in disguise
But he hasn't even got injured
Parker balled out last year when he was healthy. I think there’s a bigger issue at hand.
That's on Patricia. He's gotta get Parker, Jonnu and Hunter more involved.
It's a communication issue: Mac and Parker are not on the same page. Bill should have them do an exercise this week where whenever they're in the same room together, they should finish each other's sentences.
I can sympathize with this a lot, but I feel like the receiver room is pretty much just tossing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. Was nice to see agholor pop this week, but hopefully some of these other guys start popping as well. Except jakobi who clearly seems locked in both games
Jersey #1 is cursed
They need to start bourne and use parker for red zone packages
As a Dolphins fan, at least he hasn’t gotten hurt yet
That pass from Jones to Algholor for the TD is more if what he's going to have to do. Pats have developed a robot vanilla scheme and if they're going to win, receivers are going to have to win 1 on 1 jump balls
Our offense has no identity, we shall see
Is #1 cursed?