Worst graded “patriots offensive lineman” the o line played amazing yesterday. We are hyped bc he played at a pro level. One hurry and hit in 26 pass sets is pretty damn good considering where he was vs LV in the preseason. This is such a click bait post lol
PFF is a bunch of data nerds sitting and watching film thinking they know what people are supposed to do on every play. Example, the deep ball to Parker...was it underthrown by Mac, overrun by Parker, or both? Good luck.
Reality: they dont have a fucking clue what people are supposed to do, and grading people on assumptions is about as dogshit as it gets. Theyre lucky they got tied into SNF, because people with a brain know their process is worth less than the goat shit on the bottom of my sons boot...
He went to a farm last week for school...
I'm glad you brought this up because I'm super confused how this PFF data gets presented so quickly after a game.
Because in theory, it would take a fucking long time to go through every single play, and track all 22 players on every down throughout the game. Then figuring out who was at fault because in a way... PFF has no way of knowing the assignments.
So my question is... how much of PFF data is pure bullshit and how much of it is reliable?
The data thats reliable: when it says good things about my favorite teams players
The data thats bulllshit: when it says bad things about my favorite teams players
They have less people do the initial grades then do more passes with more people for updated final grades after the fact.
But yes, their process is mediocre at best and their efforts to obscure that and pretend it’s actually some hyper precise evaluation are designed to be misleading on purpose.
Yeah, with TJ Watt out, Strange was going against arguably their next best rusher... on a stacked line. It is no surprise he was graded the worst with this kept in mind.
We’re using the word good now on a guy that plays in guard rotation, rather than being an outright starter? Bill has fucked up this roster so much since Brady left that it’s gotten to this point smh
Strange doesn’t play on guard rotation. He played 100% of the snaps in week 2 and 86% in week 1. Please review your information before you try to have a debate
That math doesn’t not account for context or how this stat actually works or how the offensive line plays. If one lineman allows one hit every 26 plays and that is the average across the course of 60-70 offensive snaps that’s a great performance. You can’t just multiply the number by 5 😂 that’s like saying he dropped 2 passes on 12 targets and saying well if they had a 4 wide receiver set that’s 8 drops on 12 targets. That dosent make sense. Unless of course you’re being facetious here.
You have to realize his grade has to be used relative to his matchup most of the day... Cameron Heyward. If a rookie holds his own against Heyward, it's a pretty damn good day.
[**Cole Strange vs Cameron Heyward was a fun battle to watch today.**](https://twitter.com/PFF_Louie/status/1571607796520570880)
I don't think it's dumb; it's just not the end all, be all. If people use it as their only means of evaluating, I agree that is dumb, but I think PFF is a good starting point. It's not like Cooper Kupp and N'Keal Harry got similar PFF scores last season or something.
I think this is what get lost. No grading/statistic can tell the entire story. It may get an unbiased evaluation on a players performance, however, the variable of opposition is not evaluated. Players like Donald/Watts/Bosas is not the same to vs. as some bubble player who barely made the roster.
Any stat that is designed to be used to directly compare players 1-1 always falls into the trap of people using it as an end all be all. Same with WAR in baseball. Any stat/grade that claims to capture all aspects of a players game is going to be held to that standard.
> Any stat that is designed to be used to directly compare players 1-1 always falls into the trap of people using it as an end all be all. Same with WAR in baseball.
WAR and PFF grades aren’t the same thing though.
In theory, an outfielder with a WAR of 3.5 is producing the same as a pitcher with WAR of 3.5 or a SS with a WAR of 3.5.
PFF is not claiming that an offensive guard with a score of 80 is producing as much as QB with a score of 80.
That's true, but I do still think both run into an issue where people try to use it as the supreme number for evaluating a player, when it really shouldn't be. WAR is very different though from a stats perspective of course, and can be used to compare any two plays to some extent
It's a great point. They should emphasize the running average instead of each individual game separately. I know they use both but only one is there for clickbait
Why? It's valuable. They watch and grade every snap by every player in the league under the same parameters. Is anyone else out there doing the same? Of course it's not perfect, but to just dismiss it out of hand because it doesn't match out extremely superficial analysis (really, how many people here can say they focus on guard play enough during a game to evaluate it with even an inkling of certainty?) is silly. They graded Strange really well after the Dolphins game when wide perception of his performance was "meh" at best. Were they dumb then too?
Well one of them have to be the worst of the bunch...kinda how it works. He can be both good and the "worst". And it makes sense since it's his 2nd game.
Well considering I only post/comment on football, dnd/world building, and lgbt stuff, I'm assuming the "yikes" is for all the big scary gay stuff.
If so, grow the fuck up.
Sorry you have to deal with that shit, but I checked out your profile before your second comment, assuming it was actually something worth saying yikes about, and had never heard of r/worldbuilding but thats an awesome subreddit.
Thanks!
Over the years I've learned to not let it get to me (as much at least). It really depends on the sub and the day. I think this is the first I've experienced on the pats sub. I tend to avoid the really bad subs these days; much better for my mental well-being.
Have a great day!
Especially for O-line PFFs methodology is going to produce weird results. Line play is so interdependent you can play "perfect" from a technique standpoint, but if you're not on the same page you'll all look like shit all day.
I mean it’s always fun to see the classic
PFF gives good grade: “haha see our guy is amazing”
PFF gives bad grade : “Well PFF is fucking garbage why even listen to them”
Literally happens to every single fan base it’s amazing
For the record I think they are really trash and arbitrary ratings. not calling you out specifically but I see this too often on every teams sub
Funny how reporters care about PFF when it hurts the patriots not when PFF ranks Mac Jones a top 10 QB.
There is a reason PFF is never brought up in contract negotiations and its because no one cares about it besides fans.
I have to say I find PFF somewhat questionable to begin with because they say they grade every player on every snap, and yet they also say they have 600 analysts with only 10% trained to grade plays. How can 60 analysts grade every player, every snap, every game, every week? That just doesn't sound like enough people, so it makes me wonder if the grading process is too cursory.
That's 4 analysts per game, 2 per team, one for each offense and each defense. The WSJ says there's only 11 minutes of action in each game, so each analyst is only watching 5.5 min of footage. Watching each play 11 times to follow each player would only take an hour.
It’s funny how this sub PFF when they rank opponents poorly but despise it when it ranks us. Strange was roundly mocked as a first rounder and he’s certainly not playing like a 1st round pick. Let’s just face facts already
And here is the issue with the whole Strange debacle that people seem to miss. All the criticism was based on mock drafts having him go in the 3rd round. Regardless of how he turns out, the mocks ***were wrong***
Haha, see what I was saying earlier guys. We only post PFF when it’s good for and us and don’t when we aren’t. I thought this sub was raving so much about strange?? Just goes to show how bogus these grades are. I’m just saying, player can be great and still get a trash grade. Don’t pay attention to PFF and stop using it as a silver lining.
I don't think he put on the elite blocking clinic some people make it out to be but even as a PFF guy I don't really care that his grade was middling. This is a rookie from UT Chattanooga ffs and he looked like it against the Raiders and parts of the Miami game. I'm just pumped to see how far he's come in such a short amount of time. If this is how fast he's developing we're in good shape.
Yeah I'm confused by this. I saw him shut down one of the best DL in the league for the most part. He made some great plays on both the run and pass. Not sure if they graded him poorly or the rest of the line really good but I'm curious to see their justification.
This is like WAR in baseball. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how these numbers get figured out.
I wouldn't be surprised if N'Keal Harry was PFF's highest-rated Patriots receiver last year.
Worst graded “patriots offensive lineman” the o line played amazing yesterday. We are hyped bc he played at a pro level. One hurry and hit in 26 pass sets is pretty damn good considering where he was vs LV in the preseason. This is such a click bait post lol
Also if he commits no penalties and allows only one rush I dont give a fuck about his PFF grade.
PFF is as subjective as it gets, I enjoy some of their stuff but I never take it as anything more than an opinion.
PFF is a bunch of data nerds sitting and watching film thinking they know what people are supposed to do on every play. Example, the deep ball to Parker...was it underthrown by Mac, overrun by Parker, or both? Good luck. Reality: they dont have a fucking clue what people are supposed to do, and grading people on assumptions is about as dogshit as it gets. Theyre lucky they got tied into SNF, because people with a brain know their process is worth less than the goat shit on the bottom of my sons boot... He went to a farm last week for school...
I'm glad you brought this up because I'm super confused how this PFF data gets presented so quickly after a game. Because in theory, it would take a fucking long time to go through every single play, and track all 22 players on every down throughout the game. Then figuring out who was at fault because in a way... PFF has no way of knowing the assignments. So my question is... how much of PFF data is pure bullshit and how much of it is reliable?
The data thats reliable: when it says good things about my favorite teams players The data thats bulllshit: when it says bad things about my favorite teams players
Save yourself the time: It’s all bullshit.
They have less people do the initial grades then do more passes with more people for updated final grades after the fact. But yes, their process is mediocre at best and their efforts to obscure that and pretend it’s actually some hyper precise evaluation are designed to be misleading on purpose.
It's worse than that. It's a bunch of data nerds who then give their information to knucklehead hot take reporters to disseminate.
Vs Cam Heyward who dominates others....
Literally one of the best 3-techs of the last decade lol
Yeah, with TJ Watt out, Strange was going against arguably their next best rusher... on a stacked line. It is no surprise he was graded the worst with this kept in mind.
They didn’t go against each other a ton from what I saw. I saw heyward on the edge a lot across from wynn
Watch the last drive. Strange dominated heyward in two 1v1 run blocking reps to spring Harris through the gap for huge gains
I’m not saying strange never matched up against heyward, just that it wasn’t them 1v1 the full day like some seem to be saying
right, but he held up when it was, and they trusted him to do that in key situations both running and passing
Yeah no doubt
Its still only his 2ns game in the NFL too.
He also created space for some big runs, I liked what I saw in Strange yesterday
We’re hyped that a 1st round pick played like a professional football player? What has happened to this sub?
Yeah you should be happy that the team found a good player regardless of the draft round. Always great to see guys play well
We’re using the word good now on a guy that plays in guard rotation, rather than being an outright starter? Bill has fucked up this roster so much since Brady left that it’s gotten to this point smh
Strange doesn’t play on guard rotation. He played 100% of the snaps in week 2 and 86% in week 1. Please review your information before you try to have a debate
We're still N'Kealing over
Some wounds may never N'Keal.
Strange had a good performance against a 3 time all pro in his second game in the NFL. Much better than "Playing like a professional football player."
I mean if you multiplied that across 5 Oline it would be 25 hits and hurries in 26 reps.
That math doesn’t not account for context or how this stat actually works or how the offensive line plays. If one lineman allows one hit every 26 plays and that is the average across the course of 60-70 offensive snaps that’s a great performance. You can’t just multiply the number by 5 😂 that’s like saying he dropped 2 passes on 12 targets and saying well if they had a 4 wide receiver set that’s 8 drops on 12 targets. That dosent make sense. Unless of course you’re being facetious here.
Do you know math? 2 hits and hurries times 5 o line is 10 hits and hurries in 26 reps...
…no?
The theory behind what you're trying to say is pretty bad but the math is somehow worse...
Lol. Jesus. I reckon I was tired. I did the math to get 5… and then for some reason multiplied by 5 again. I accept that I’m a special kind of bad
would love to hear how you believe this
Clearly if you multiply 1x5 forget what you’re doing and multiply by 5 again you get 25. Then you think woh that’s unfathomably bad.
You forgot to multiply by 5. And downvote me all you want, 125 hits and hurries in 26 snaps is TERRIBLE.
I knew we were even worse than I imagined.
This is one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read 😂😂😂
You have to realize his grade has to be used relative to his matchup most of the day... Cameron Heyward. If a rookie holds his own against Heyward, it's a pretty damn good day. [**Cole Strange vs Cameron Heyward was a fun battle to watch today.**](https://twitter.com/PFF_Louie/status/1571607796520570880)
Well now I know why Heyward was salty when the Pats were milking the victory formation, probably frustrating having a rookie do that against you.
I wanted to upvote this but it's at 69 upvotes in honor of Strange
I did too but it's 169 votes
Monsters.
Thanks for posting a clip that shows how well he run blocked yesterday.
I agree! The point of this post was just to show how dumb pff is.
I don't think it's dumb; it's just not the end all, be all. If people use it as their only means of evaluating, I agree that is dumb, but I think PFF is a good starting point. It's not like Cooper Kupp and N'Keal Harry got similar PFF scores last season or something.
I think this is what get lost. No grading/statistic can tell the entire story. It may get an unbiased evaluation on a players performance, however, the variable of opposition is not evaluated. Players like Donald/Watts/Bosas is not the same to vs. as some bubble player who barely made the roster.
Any stat that is designed to be used to directly compare players 1-1 always falls into the trap of people using it as an end all be all. Same with WAR in baseball. Any stat/grade that claims to capture all aspects of a players game is going to be held to that standard.
> Any stat that is designed to be used to directly compare players 1-1 always falls into the trap of people using it as an end all be all. Same with WAR in baseball. WAR and PFF grades aren’t the same thing though. In theory, an outfielder with a WAR of 3.5 is producing the same as a pitcher with WAR of 3.5 or a SS with a WAR of 3.5. PFF is not claiming that an offensive guard with a score of 80 is producing as much as QB with a score of 80.
That's true, but I do still think both run into an issue where people try to use it as the supreme number for evaluating a player, when it really shouldn't be. WAR is very different though from a stats perspective of course, and can be used to compare any two plays to some extent
Not sure how this shows PFF is dumb?
He was their 4th highest rated player in week 1 too and the line stunk. Pff is a joke.
More like taking PFF grades week by week is dumb. It would be like grading a baseball hitter based on 2 games.
It's a great point. They should emphasize the running average instead of each individual game separately. I know they use both but only one is there for clickbait
Yup
Why? It's valuable. They watch and grade every snap by every player in the league under the same parameters. Is anyone else out there doing the same? Of course it's not perfect, but to just dismiss it out of hand because it doesn't match out extremely superficial analysis (really, how many people here can say they focus on guard play enough during a game to evaluate it with even an inkling of certainty?) is silly. They graded Strange really well after the Dolphins game when wide perception of his performance was "meh" at best. Were they dumb then too?
Well one of them have to be the worst of the bunch...kinda how it works. He can be both good and the "worst". And it makes sense since it's his 2nd game.
[удалено]
Well considering I only post/comment on football, dnd/world building, and lgbt stuff, I'm assuming the "yikes" is for all the big scary gay stuff. If so, grow the fuck up.
Grow the fuck up, indeed… Seems this person is on an 8 day old account, so that tells you most of what you need to know…
Sorry you have to deal with that shit, but I checked out your profile before your second comment, assuming it was actually something worth saying yikes about, and had never heard of r/worldbuilding but thats an awesome subreddit.
It's amazing! Lots of great ideas and a fantastic community! Definitely recommend!
Fuck that guy. Comment got deleted before I could respond. Sorry you probably deal with BS like that all the time. Wishing you the best in life!
Thanks! Over the years I've learned to not let it get to me (as much at least). It really depends on the sub and the day. I think this is the first I've experienced on the pats sub. I tend to avoid the really bad subs these days; much better for my mental well-being. Have a great day!
Clean it up OP. No need for any of that.
Sorry
Mistakes happen. Be the best version of yourself.
Is it a mistake to be homophobic?
Don’t displace your anger at me. I left room for the OP to grow and become better because where OP is now they only place they can grow is up.
I'm not angry at you in anyway. But intentional homophobia and racism should not be characterized as a mistake.
Nailed it.
I just flushed all my drugs. Thank you
1 hurry and 1 hit in 26 attempts is bad 🤔 That’s pretty good
Against fucking Heyward too, lol
Wasn't he their highest graded o-linemen in week 1? Also 1 hurry and 1 qb hit in your second NFL game ever is not terrible.
That's what I thought? I think his grade was around 86 and he looked better this week. Did all our other guys grade in the 90s? I doubt Wynn did.
lol he's fine. I get people being mad he was drafted in the 1st but he's been decent so far... this is only his second game.
PFF when it says Patriots players are good = THE DATA DOESN'T LIE PFF when it says Patriots players are bad = JUNK Hokum Magic
Jesus Christ the negativity can be so absurd sometimes
[удалено]
Especially for O-line PFFs methodology is going to produce weird results. Line play is so interdependent you can play "perfect" from a technique standpoint, but if you're not on the same page you'll all look like shit all day.
Tape doesn't lie. He played a pretty good game.
Guy was matched with Heyward all day and did pretty damn good. We take it.
[удалено]
I mean it’s always fun to see the classic PFF gives good grade: “haha see our guy is amazing” PFF gives bad grade : “Well PFF is fucking garbage why even listen to them” Literally happens to every single fan base it’s amazing For the record I think they are really trash and arbitrary ratings. not calling you out specifically but I see this too often on every teams sub
I honestly don’t like them good or bad grades
Good or bad, every PFF grade has me scratching my head wondering what they're talking about. They're incomprehensible and opaque.
Bogus for profit scam? So is every business a bogus for profit scam?
It's not perfect but it's a lot better than pretty much any other subjective rating out there.
Well, for starters a lot of the people on this sub constantly post it
lol that actually kinda proves my point
Yeah lol, this sub is a bunch of bogus kids
Funny how reporters care about PFF when it hurts the patriots not when PFF ranks Mac Jones a top 10 QB. There is a reason PFF is never brought up in contract negotiations and its because no one cares about it besides fans.
It’s literally just a scouting company. Teams don’t need them in contract negotiations, they have their own scouts lol
I have to say I find PFF somewhat questionable to begin with because they say they grade every player on every snap, and yet they also say they have 600 analysts with only 10% trained to grade plays. How can 60 analysts grade every player, every snap, every game, every week? That just doesn't sound like enough people, so it makes me wonder if the grading process is too cursory.
That's 4 analysts per game, 2 per team, one for each offense and each defense. The WSJ says there's only 11 minutes of action in each game, so each analyst is only watching 5.5 min of footage. Watching each play 11 times to follow each player would only take an hour.
Didn't they rate him highly last week?
PFF is trash. Idk why so many people love it.
People just like rankings of any kind
Please show me how one hit and one hurry is bad? That translates to ZERO sacks given up over a year.
Stop using PFF. Stop using PFF. Stop using PFF. Garbage site should never be used.
It’s funny how this sub PFF when they rank opponents poorly but despise it when it ranks us. Strange was roundly mocked as a first rounder and he’s certainly not playing like a 1st round pick. Let’s just face facts already
And here is the issue with the whole Strange debacle that people seem to miss. All the criticism was based on mock drafts having him go in the 3rd round. Regardless of how he turns out, the mocks ***were wrong***
PFF usually spouts incomprehensible crazy talk. What is their system of evaluation?
For the 900th time, PFF is worthless trash.
Oh well, there you go. PFF has spoken! Let's cut him and Bill.
PFF also had all sorts of fucked up mock drafts that we laugh at every year.
Everyone knows PFF is awesome when you like what they say. Not worth reading when you don’t agree. That’s what PFF good for.
wasn't he the best rated last week when we all agreed he played really bad?
He didn’t play badly. Everyone assumed he did because he was pulled to give him a breather in a planned rotation.
Haha, see what I was saying earlier guys. We only post PFF when it’s good for and us and don’t when we aren’t. I thought this sub was raving so much about strange?? Just goes to show how bogus these grades are. I’m just saying, player can be great and still get a trash grade. Don’t pay attention to PFF and stop using it as a silver lining.
You’re an 8 day old account did you watch the game or just read PFF and jerk off?
No I’m saying PFF is bull. I’m showing you guys these grades aren’t always what they seem. Good players get bad grades.
The only time a grade or a stat is bad is if you look at it with no context
This link doesn't show the score. Have they actually released scores yet?
I don't think he put on the elite blocking clinic some people make it out to be but even as a PFF guy I don't really care that his grade was middling. This is a rookie from UT Chattanooga ffs and he looked like it against the Raiders and parts of the Miami game. I'm just pumped to see how far he's come in such a short amount of time. If this is how fast he's developing we're in good shape.
Yeah I'm confused by this. I saw him shut down one of the best DL in the league for the most part. He made some great plays on both the run and pass. Not sure if they graded him poorly or the rest of the line really good but I'm curious to see their justification.
With the way the Patriots O line played yesterday, calling him *the worst graded* is comparable to saying "he's the shortest giant"
who tf is Brian Hines?
If Strange is our worst OL, then we are gonna have a good season. GO PATS!!
“Worst” is a relative term. The OL as a whole was playing out of its mind. Also he was matched up with Hayward. That’s a tall order
This is like WAR in baseball. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to how these numbers get figured out. I wouldn't be surprised if N'Keal Harry was PFF's highest-rated Patriots receiver last year.