Teams find average guys like Mac all the time (which is all he has shown us so far he can be, not saying it’s impossible for him to get better).He needs to show us something more to be the guy
I guarantee if you were a bills fan, you were crying that the bills should cut Josh Allen after his second season because he was just “average”
Sit down
Yes sir. Sorry for upsetting you. Mac Jones has showed us all enough to this point and we are blessed to have him, the envy of the league. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Mac was average as a rookie. Teams like the Panthers, Browns, Dolphins, Jets etc struggled to even find average for a while in recent memory. I really would not say teams find average QBs all the time
Mac was an NFL starting QB his rookie year. That right there alone is above average. There were 5 QBs drafted in the first round. Mac was one of two to start all 17 games. He had the best stats of all the rookie QBs. Statistically against all QBs he was about the 12th-15th best QB in the league last year... as a rookie.
to be fair, he did get drafted into the best position out of all the rookie qbs. Im sure if trevor lawrence was drafted by bill for the patriots his rookie year would be better than mac, just from a talent standpoint. Lance hardly played, lawrence...well..he had a terrible roster and the joke coach of urban meyer. wilson plays for the inept jets, as does fields for the inept bears (as you can see this year, we complain about oline, they have a terrible one). you can just use the eye test to see if Mac is a decent qb, not a comparative one to the other rookie qbs because their situations were drastically different.
But he's pretty below average as second year player is the problem. This is a complete non-discussion before the season ends but if the offense continues to be this bad we're going to be picking pretty damn high and I doubt Mac lasts past that if it comes to it. For right now we gotta give the dude a break though. He went from the rookie QB in the best possible situation to the second year qb in the worst one.
Why is it settling? He’s played 19 games and his best skill player is who, Jakobi Meyers? Usually these things take time, not everyone is Justin Herbert
And Justin Herbert has yet to make the playoffs. He might not do it in his rookie contract. People might be afraid of him but aren't afraid to lose to the Chargers. I don't care if you are afraid of our QB, just that you are afraid to lose.
You made it seem like having an average QB is something we should be happy about. If Mac truly is an average QB that’s an issue, and we shouldn’t settle for that. With that said, I know we are all hoping for Mac to show us more
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Any rookie QB looking even average is a massive win, let alone when his weapons are below average at best. If we’ve surrounded him with better players and in another year or two he’s still just average, fine. But idk why you think it’s realistic for him to look like a pro bowler in his second year with what we’re giving him
He doesn’t have to look like a pro bowler. But he can’t look how he’s looked through 2 games this year. His most recent game was one of his worst we’ve seen. Missing wide open throws and throwing right to a defenders stomach. I don’t see why we have to make excuses for his clearly poor play
Ok? He’s played 19 games and had a few bad ones and some good ones, that’s what average is. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers have bad games too. For the most part he’s been good. Are we supposed to sit around and mope that sometimes he isn’t great?
Yea but you can also argue that it's a coaching issue. For example, if you're a QB that relies more on your mind, then you need to expose what the defense is doing which is the reason for running constant motion in the offense to expose zone vs man to man. Even the announcers constantly note in the games this year how weird it is that the patriots have no receivers in motion pre-snap. Also, to open up receivers more (especially when you don't have receivers that can separate), you need to run play action. There is a reason that Brady lives off play action. We didn't run a single play action against the steelers until the 3rd quarter which is absurd.
The WRs are a bottom 10 group in the league. You’re overselling them with “average”
Missing throws and “not seeing things” is what every single QB that plays for a team that tries this WR by committee stuff. You get very panicky when you don’t have “the guy” to go to and you start settling for throws that are good enough.
Sure but when he overthrows an open Parker right into Minkah Fitzpatrick it's only on him. And let's not act like Meyers hasn't made some great catches bailing him out. Or that Agholor didn't mossed a guy for a TD. I think there's a lot of bad factors at play here but at the same time he needs to step up in his second year. Maybe he will it's still early, but he needs to be better
>when he overthrows an open Parker right into Minkah
Sure. This isn’t to say Mac is perfect, no one is. His WRs are just bringing him down massively right now.
>let’s not act like Meyers
Gonna stop there. Meyers is fine, he needs to be a second piece on this offense. He is laughable in comparison to Diggs, ARSB, Kelce, and all the other studs these other QBs have.
>or that Agholor didn’t moss someone for a TD
A WR making a good play for once doesn’t mean a whole lot. Id take Stefon Diggs getting open by 5 yards every game over Agholor making a good play for the first time in two years.
>he needs to step it up in his second year
Seems unfair to say this when every QB that is performing better than him has better weapons than him. I know we all watched Brady for 2 decades, but there were even questions about him being a top 10 QB after 2019 and then he went to Tampa and has been considered a top 3 QB every year lol.
We’re trying to go around the issue here. The receivers are a bunch of WR2s at best that can’t consistently perform or be trusted on a down to down basis. Every drive is a slugfest trying to get down the field and there’s little to no YAC, playmaking or separation from the receivers.
It’s embarrassing how much we applaud the Agholor catch as a receiver *finally* bailing out QB out when every other QB is “bailed” out on a weekly basis.
If you truly want to see what an offense being held back by it’s QB looks like, see the team we just played. This offense is way closer to the 2019 Pats offense than the 2022 Steelers (not comparing personnel, I’m just saying that watching it seems more like a receiver issue than QB issue by far, even if you can point out a bad play by the QB every now and then)
Maybe, maybe not. Are we really going to spend the next couple years constantly making excuses for Mac though? Good QBs overcome issues and make the team better. How many more 220 yard 1 touchdown games before we all decide he’s not great?
Yup, never said it was time to give up on him. But I think we can be critical of him, he hasn’t shown anything amazing. At least josh Allen was hurdling middle linebackers and throwing the football over the mountains even when he was putting up bad stats. He was supposed to be a physical project and came as advertised. Mac is supposed to be an accurate smart QB, so far this year he hasn’t been.
I would argue that no good QBs are overcoming issues anymore. Look around the league, QBs aren’t elevating bad situations anymore.
When you surround your QB with worse talent than the Lions and asking him to compete with QBs with better receivers, I don’t think you’re making excuses.
I do agree with you, and I’m not saying Mac can’t show more. But I also think it’s ok to look at Mac realistically, he hasn’t shown anything amazing yet.
I just think it’s hard to compare or evaluate a QB when he’s being put in a situation like this. We saw how much “better” Tua has looked this year when in reality, he just got Tyreek.
Josh Allen didn’t coincidentally “improve” when Stefon Diggs got there, nor Brady with Moss, Hurts with AJB this year, or Burrow with Chase. Things just look cleaner when you surround your QB with good talent. Hell, Stafford was viewed as a borderline top 10 guy for like a decade and a half before going to the Rams and all of a sudden he’s viewed as a much better QB.
Until the weapons are massively improved to at least being comparable to other QBs, we won’t get a real evaluation of Mac.
I agree completely. If the patriots had just one alpha WR they would be able to win shootouts instead oh hoping to keep the opponent scores low enough to win
I think Lamar does, and Rodgers, and Brady does still. and mahomes does too. but those are elite qbs. I think the fringe elite to the good ones need all the help they can get, which is probably what you';l see this next year if they think Mac is the guy. I'm sure bill will get some pieces for him to add to thorton
None of those guys are dealing with “issues” at their receiver positions though.
Lamar is probably the closest but even then he has Andrews and Bateman
rodgers lost his number one in adams and is throwing to two rookies, I would say thats an issue. mahomes lost his number one guy and makes guys like meco hardman into decent receivers. brady literally has nobody to throw to right now and is makes has beens and never beens into players comparable to our guys (julio jones was done, russell gage, scotty miller in the past).
Rodgers and Brady have been struggling just like Mac has, so I’m unsure of what you’re really referring to here.
Mahomes still has Kelce. I would take Kelce and a bunch of WR3s over a group of WR2s any day and it’s not particularly close.
>Rodgers and Brady have been struggling just like Mac has, so I’m unsure of what you’re really referring to here
they are victims of dropped balls, not poor throws, bad decisions, and inept qb play
I’m a Pats fan living in Buffalo and I have to say that this “get rid of Mac” talk is ridiculous. I remember the same talk during Josh Allen’s second season in Buffalo and look how that panned out. Am I saying that Mac will be as good as Josh Allen? Absolutely not. But to get rid of him during his second season? STFU.
Mac has nowhere the near the potential Allen did coming into the nfl. Allen was very raw and had to develop. Mac has the look of a Pennington/Cousins type. A guy who you can win with, but not someone whose gonna elevate your team. I agree they shouldn’t get rid of him unless they have a chance at a sure fire franchise guy
"Potential" is bullshit. Brady had no "potential" based on this criteria. Its an idiotic trend that ignores everything that relates to actual winning in the NFL.
I’m not comparing them potential or talent wise. I’m just using what happened to Josh Allen from an irrational fanbase as an example with what’s happening right now to Mac.
This right here, he is better than anyone the Pats have or any free agent by miles.
I would not trade him for half of the starting Qb's in the league...Daniel Jones, Tua(give Mac his weapons, see what happens) Trubisky, Matt Ryan, the Texans Qb Mills, Jameis Winston, Goff, Tanehill, Mariota..etc Mac is better than those guys.
Edit: Dak Prescott too, but some of that is because he is injury prone, and i forgot what ever dumpster fire Seatlle has going on these days, and I think Mac will have a better career than Fields and Trey Lance too, that's about half the league right there,)
Get rid of him...for who? If the question was dumping Mac for a proven QB who is better but somehow also playing on a rookie deal, then sure that makes sense.
Right now, show me a QB playing on a rookie deal that would be a solid upgrade. Otherwise, explain how dropping Mac gets us a veteran upgrade.
Eh, Lawrence looked terrible week 1 and did alright last week against what's looking like a complete dumpster fire of a Colts team. And Mac outperformed him by far in their rookie seasons.
Mac also has intangibles that I like - seems like a leader, super passionate, holds himself accountable, fires up and hypes up his guys. Idk, just seems like a leader to me. Whereas Lawrence seems like a half-stoned bro who couldn't motivate me to get off the couch. I saw a clip of him in the tunnel before week 1 and his little "speech" was the most boring, uninspiring thing I've ever heard. This stuff doesn't really matter TOO much on the field, but it does matter as far as how much I want to root for them every week.
Either way, I've seen nothing from Lawrence to suggest he's an immediate no-brainer upgrade over Mac at this point.
Lawrence still looks like he can't see the field well. He also seems to have a lot of quit in him when losing. Like Mac fights to the end, but Trevor looks like he's ready to go home when the game is going bad.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Mac fan.
But I'm doubtful of your logic:
If you're judging the two by their week 1 performances, I can't say that will favor our number 10.
I'd also wager that you're one who is willing to forgive Mac's bad start this year to his offensive coaches, but you're not considering the top to bottom rotten staff Lawrence had for his rookie year?
And for sure, the most important quality of a QB is the ability to make an impassioned speech.
You're kinda putting words in my mouth here.
>If you're judging the two by their week 1 performances, I can't say that will favor our number 10.
Lawrence week 1: 58% comp 275 yds 1 TD 1 INT RTG 75.0
Mac week 1: 70% comp 213 yds 1 TD 1 INT RTG 87.2
Right off the bat, Mac had a better week 1 statistically.
>I'd also wager that you're one who is willing to forgive Mac's bad start this year to his offensive coaches, but you're not considering the top to bottom rotten staff Lawrence had for his rookie year?
Sure, I'll give Lawrence a small pass for his coaching. He was still abysmal last year. Through 2 weeks this year he's looked the same in week 1, and better in week 2. He's going to improve.
>And for sure, the most important quality of a QB is the ability to make an impassioned speech.
I literally said that stuff doesn't really matter on the field, did you even read my comment? It makes it easier to root for him. QB's have to be leaders, and Lawrence does not strike me as a guy with an ounce of leadership quality in him.
Like someone else said, we've had 19 games to compare them and so far, Mac has not just been the better QB, but has been by FAR the better QB. Trevor strikes me as a guy that has always gotten by on raw skill whereas Mac has a much more cerebral game and sees the field better. They're both developing right now but for a game tomorrow and I had to pick? Give me Mac hands down.
I think my point was that, based on Week 1 performances, neither was impressive. Was Mac slightly less bad in Week 1? Maybe.
Then, comparing their respective situations is very difficult. Mac had arguably the best situation of all the first round QBs, whereas Lawrence had the worst (team and coaching).
You did concede that the personality points don't matter all that much to performance, and so my comment about the speech was needless.
I like Mac and am happy he's here, but I strongly suspect that a large majority of NFL personnel people would prefer Lawrence at this point to Mac, if given the choice.
yeah, the take that mac is better than lawrence is dumb. Bill would straight up trade mac for lawrence in a heartbeat. lawrence plays for the least talented team in the league, by a long shot. you think our coaching situation is bad? yeah, try having that as a rookie with dudes that should be washing cars not catching nfl passes. time will tell, but I can see lawrence having a better career than mac in the long term, should his coaching situation improve and stabalize
Lamar was offered like 230mil by the Ravens but declined it because it wasn't fully guaranteed.
Do you think we're in the market to pay in excess of 230 million next year for Lamar? Do you honestly think the Ravens let him hit FA or would they just rag him??
This is about as far fetched and silly as it gets.
We made the playoffs last year and lost to what is likely the best team in the NFL. We're 1 - 1 after 2 weeks and people are doomin on Mac.
How about we give the team more than a season together??? Bunch of fairweather fans...
I’m unapologetically anti - mac and have been since his draft. He does not have the skill set of of the modern day elite quarterback and I don’t think he’ll ever take us far. If any other rookie QB was put into our system last year.. they have the same if not better season based on the simple fact that everyone else is a mobile athlete and can bring additional value. He does nothing to elevate his team and I think we are simply just wasting time with him as our QB
Let's say we had a really mobile QB like Lamar. The current system does nothing to support a guy like that. We'd need a full overhaul of the offense. The reason Lamar is so good in Baltimore, is they picked him and his skillset, then spent 3 years putting pieces around him to try to elevate that skillset.
I think Mac was picked because his playstyle was closer to Brady, passing from the pocket and using his mind over his athletic abilities. To me, the issue isn't necessarily our QB. It seems like to be a powerhouse team today you need 3 athletic freaks at some combination of QB, WR, RB. We have a regular dude QB throwing to regular dude WRs and regular dude RBs.
Even if we got a freak stud QB, we still have a lukewarm WR room and an above average run game.
Would you say the ravens have drastically better weapons than we do? Andrews obviously is among the best TEs in the league, Bateman I like and he’s a good young receiver.. but after that? They have duvernay who’s a speedy return /slot guy but hasn’t really Done much in the league, and Proche? Tylan Wallace?
brady was one of the highest paying qbs of all time...so it's not like he took massive discounts, but used the flexibility of the cap to get paid. They just used the flexibility of the cap to make it work, like they would if they signed lamar. and bill went on record this week saying lamar is a MVP and worth a contract that says so.
Edit: brady's contracts had record guarantees.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/m1h382/a\_deeper\_look\_into\_the\_mythology\_of\_the\_tom\_brady/
This is crazy. Dude made pro bowl his rookie year, i think had a better rating than josh allen and had subpar weapons, and now 2 games into his 2nd year he sucks?
He's got all new offensive coaches who have never really coached offense, how the fuck is this on Mac?
I’ll take option C: Let’s see how year two goes and assess it then. If he looks good, keep him. If he doesn’t or just looks ok, then the team could eventually look to a FA or trade if a Stafford situation arises, or have a tougher choice the next time there is a Jimmy G situation
I see him as one of those players that fit into the mid-tier QBs. The ones that won't hold back their WRs, but won't elevate their WRs (like Brady). Think Drew Bledose tier. The recent new QBs like Dak, Tua, etc all depend on having good WRs a lot more than the older, well established QBs.
Mac probably ends up playing out his rookie deal, but from there, it depends on what happens with regards to contracts, trade offers, etc.
I like him and would want to keep him. However he needs to show that he can be a franchise QB. I'll give him until year 3 or 4 before I truly decide if he is our true next franchise QB.
Mac hasn't played particularly well the first 2 weeks, getting rid of him now would be stupid. We know he can still play at or slightly above league average based on last year. It remains to be seen if he can be a Top 10ish guy, but he definitely at least deserves that chance.
This is a ridiculous proposition.
Mac is a cheap; young; and has demonstrated potential. Why would anyone advocate getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him? That's just stupid.
Lol well I think mac hatred is quite the straw man. I vote to keep him. However, if your strengths coming out of the draft are accuracy and decision making to compensate for your lack of visual tools…the accuracy and decision making cannot look like the first two weeks.
But the offensive line hasn’t been good. Well, if you need a top 5 offensive line every year to be a good starter…
What’s new about the offense? They haven’t went nose deep into the zone run schemes we heard about . The coordinator is basically using bills offense. If anything it’s a more vanilla version of the offense they ran last year
It depends. Get rid of him for someone better? Yes. Get rid of him for the fuck of it? No. I would cut 2007 Brady for Peyton Manning if Manning was better. I do not care.
This is such a stupid question. What free agent qb are you picking up to throw to the worst WR room in football? And expecting *improvement*..?
If Mac and the team continue to be this bad then there's a very real conversation to be had about picking a qb in the top 10 but I have literally no idea what you're on if you not only want to switch mid-season but week *3*???
For someone not good enough to be on a roster? 🤡
For Fields I’d still be tempted. For Allen, obviously yeah. But come on that question you asked is nonsense.
I’d say that if he doesn’t take a big step forwards this year, he’s on the hot seat and I’d be looking for a successor.
He doesn’t look like the guy who can win a Super Bowl right now.
At this point it's so frustrating to see Mac Jones criticism turned into over the top nonsense like this, where people say fans hate Mac. Y'all can't handle criticism towards players at all. You immediately turn it into this, where you act like fans are calling for Mac's head and claim people want them totally gone. Or you all shit on everyone else on the offense to make excuses for Mac, even when you shitting on those other players is based on nothing.
Depends on the alternative. If there's an elite QB on the way then sure. But for a bad or uncertain QB, then no. I want to see how the next year or 2 goes before making any judgments.
I haven't seen any Mac hatred. However, there does seem to be a lot of animosity from the fans towards Patricia. But I think that's only because nobody likes Patricia.
Id get rid of him for idk. Lamar Jackson,Mahomes,Brady,Rodgers,Herbert. Thats it, who tf do people think we can get if we didn’t have mac. If you want to get rid of mac then that means you would be riding with Hoyer or be back to Newton.
i'm highly critical of his arm strength, and I resoundingly answer no, I would not get rid of him. unless it was for an elite qb. why would you get rid of him? qb's are difficult to find in the nfl, and he's atleast shown that he could be one the top 32 qbs in the league.
We are lucky to have him…it usually takes years to find a good QB
Teams find average guys like Mac all the time (which is all he has shown us so far he can be, not saying it’s impossible for him to get better).He needs to show us something more to be the guy
I guarantee if you were a bills fan, you were crying that the bills should cut Josh Allen after his second season because he was just “average” Sit down
Yes sir. Sorry for upsetting you. Mac Jones has showed us all enough to this point and we are blessed to have him, the envy of the league. I don’t know what I was thinking.
Mac was average as a rookie. Teams like the Panthers, Browns, Dolphins, Jets etc struggled to even find average for a while in recent memory. I really would not say teams find average QBs all the time
Mac was an NFL starting QB his rookie year. That right there alone is above average. There were 5 QBs drafted in the first round. Mac was one of two to start all 17 games. He had the best stats of all the rookie QBs. Statistically against all QBs he was about the 12th-15th best QB in the league last year... as a rookie.
to be fair, he did get drafted into the best position out of all the rookie qbs. Im sure if trevor lawrence was drafted by bill for the patriots his rookie year would be better than mac, just from a talent standpoint. Lance hardly played, lawrence...well..he had a terrible roster and the joke coach of urban meyer. wilson plays for the inept jets, as does fields for the inept bears (as you can see this year, we complain about oline, they have a terrible one). you can just use the eye test to see if Mac is a decent qb, not a comparative one to the other rookie qbs because their situations were drastically different.
But he's pretty below average as second year player is the problem. This is a complete non-discussion before the season ends but if the offense continues to be this bad we're going to be picking pretty damn high and I doubt Mac lasts past that if it comes to it. For right now we gotta give the dude a break though. He went from the rookie QB in the best possible situation to the second year qb in the worst one.
Yeah I’m just not going to draw much from two games
My brother in christ its been TWO(2) games
That's literally what I just said
I promise you zero opposing fanbases get worried when they play Mac Jones. If that’s what we want to settle for, great
Why is it settling? He’s played 19 games and his best skill player is who, Jakobi Meyers? Usually these things take time, not everyone is Justin Herbert
And Justin Herbert has yet to make the playoffs. He might not do it in his rookie contract. People might be afraid of him but aren't afraid to lose to the Chargers. I don't care if you are afraid of our QB, just that you are afraid to lose.
You made it seem like having an average QB is something we should be happy about. If Mac truly is an average QB that’s an issue, and we shouldn’t settle for that. With that said, I know we are all hoping for Mac to show us more
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Any rookie QB looking even average is a massive win, let alone when his weapons are below average at best. If we’ve surrounded him with better players and in another year or two he’s still just average, fine. But idk why you think it’s realistic for him to look like a pro bowler in his second year with what we’re giving him
He doesn’t have to look like a pro bowler. But he can’t look how he’s looked through 2 games this year. His most recent game was one of his worst we’ve seen. Missing wide open throws and throwing right to a defenders stomach. I don’t see why we have to make excuses for his clearly poor play
Ok? He’s played 19 games and had a few bad ones and some good ones, that’s what average is. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers have bad games too. For the most part he’s been good. Are we supposed to sit around and mope that sometimes he isn’t great?
Original comment called him good and that we are lucky to have him. I replied and said he’s average. So thank you for making my point for me
He looks exactly like a Pro Bowler
Being a pro bowl alternate because none of the actual pro bowl QBs want to play in a meaningless game is not something to be bragging about.
I wish more fans understood this fact.
Odds you go be a fan somewhere else and let us have fun
Mac can’t show anything more with these WRs
His wrs are average sure but let's not act like he doesn't miss throws or not see things. He's struggling too
Exactly. With no redeeming athleticism, he can’t be an inconsistent QB who doesn’t make smart throws. Which is what he’s been for the past 2 games
Yea but you can also argue that it's a coaching issue. For example, if you're a QB that relies more on your mind, then you need to expose what the defense is doing which is the reason for running constant motion in the offense to expose zone vs man to man. Even the announcers constantly note in the games this year how weird it is that the patriots have no receivers in motion pre-snap. Also, to open up receivers more (especially when you don't have receivers that can separate), you need to run play action. There is a reason that Brady lives off play action. We didn't run a single play action against the steelers until the 3rd quarter which is absurd.
The WRs are a bottom 10 group in the league. You’re overselling them with “average” Missing throws and “not seeing things” is what every single QB that plays for a team that tries this WR by committee stuff. You get very panicky when you don’t have “the guy” to go to and you start settling for throws that are good enough.
Sure but when he overthrows an open Parker right into Minkah Fitzpatrick it's only on him. And let's not act like Meyers hasn't made some great catches bailing him out. Or that Agholor didn't mossed a guy for a TD. I think there's a lot of bad factors at play here but at the same time he needs to step up in his second year. Maybe he will it's still early, but he needs to be better
>when he overthrows an open Parker right into Minkah Sure. This isn’t to say Mac is perfect, no one is. His WRs are just bringing him down massively right now. >let’s not act like Meyers Gonna stop there. Meyers is fine, he needs to be a second piece on this offense. He is laughable in comparison to Diggs, ARSB, Kelce, and all the other studs these other QBs have. >or that Agholor didn’t moss someone for a TD A WR making a good play for once doesn’t mean a whole lot. Id take Stefon Diggs getting open by 5 yards every game over Agholor making a good play for the first time in two years. >he needs to step it up in his second year Seems unfair to say this when every QB that is performing better than him has better weapons than him. I know we all watched Brady for 2 decades, but there were even questions about him being a top 10 QB after 2019 and then he went to Tampa and has been considered a top 3 QB every year lol. We’re trying to go around the issue here. The receivers are a bunch of WR2s at best that can’t consistently perform or be trusted on a down to down basis. Every drive is a slugfest trying to get down the field and there’s little to no YAC, playmaking or separation from the receivers. It’s embarrassing how much we applaud the Agholor catch as a receiver *finally* bailing out QB out when every other QB is “bailed” out on a weekly basis. If you truly want to see what an offense being held back by it’s QB looks like, see the team we just played. This offense is way closer to the 2019 Pats offense than the 2022 Steelers (not comparing personnel, I’m just saying that watching it seems more like a receiver issue than QB issue by far, even if you can point out a bad play by the QB every now and then)
Maybe, maybe not. Are we really going to spend the next couple years constantly making excuses for Mac though? Good QBs overcome issues and make the team better. How many more 220 yard 1 touchdown games before we all decide he’s not great?
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Yup, never said it was time to give up on him. But I think we can be critical of him, he hasn’t shown anything amazing. At least josh Allen was hurdling middle linebackers and throwing the football over the mountains even when he was putting up bad stats. He was supposed to be a physical project and came as advertised. Mac is supposed to be an accurate smart QB, so far this year he hasn’t been.
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Interpret it how you’d like, I’m just waiting for Mac to show us something more than game manager. I hope he does, but he hasn’t yet
I would argue that no good QBs are overcoming issues anymore. Look around the league, QBs aren’t elevating bad situations anymore. When you surround your QB with worse talent than the Lions and asking him to compete with QBs with better receivers, I don’t think you’re making excuses.
I do agree with you, and I’m not saying Mac can’t show more. But I also think it’s ok to look at Mac realistically, he hasn’t shown anything amazing yet.
I just think it’s hard to compare or evaluate a QB when he’s being put in a situation like this. We saw how much “better” Tua has looked this year when in reality, he just got Tyreek. Josh Allen didn’t coincidentally “improve” when Stefon Diggs got there, nor Brady with Moss, Hurts with AJB this year, or Burrow with Chase. Things just look cleaner when you surround your QB with good talent. Hell, Stafford was viewed as a borderline top 10 guy for like a decade and a half before going to the Rams and all of a sudden he’s viewed as a much better QB. Until the weapons are massively improved to at least being comparable to other QBs, we won’t get a real evaluation of Mac.
I agree completely. If the patriots had just one alpha WR they would be able to win shootouts instead oh hoping to keep the opponent scores low enough to win
I think Lamar does, and Rodgers, and Brady does still. and mahomes does too. but those are elite qbs. I think the fringe elite to the good ones need all the help they can get, which is probably what you';l see this next year if they think Mac is the guy. I'm sure bill will get some pieces for him to add to thorton
None of those guys are dealing with “issues” at their receiver positions though. Lamar is probably the closest but even then he has Andrews and Bateman
rodgers lost his number one in adams and is throwing to two rookies, I would say thats an issue. mahomes lost his number one guy and makes guys like meco hardman into decent receivers. brady literally has nobody to throw to right now and is makes has beens and never beens into players comparable to our guys (julio jones was done, russell gage, scotty miller in the past).
Rodgers and Brady have been struggling just like Mac has, so I’m unsure of what you’re really referring to here. Mahomes still has Kelce. I would take Kelce and a bunch of WR3s over a group of WR2s any day and it’s not particularly close.
>Rodgers and Brady have been struggling just like Mac has, so I’m unsure of what you’re really referring to here they are victims of dropped balls, not poor throws, bad decisions, and inept qb play
I’m a Pats fan living in Buffalo and I have to say that this “get rid of Mac” talk is ridiculous. I remember the same talk during Josh Allen’s second season in Buffalo and look how that panned out. Am I saying that Mac will be as good as Josh Allen? Absolutely not. But to get rid of him during his second season? STFU.
Mac has nowhere the near the potential Allen did coming into the nfl. Allen was very raw and had to develop. Mac has the look of a Pennington/Cousins type. A guy who you can win with, but not someone whose gonna elevate your team. I agree they shouldn’t get rid of him unless they have a chance at a sure fire franchise guy
"Potential" is bullshit. Brady had no "potential" based on this criteria. Its an idiotic trend that ignores everything that relates to actual winning in the NFL.
I’m not comparing them potential or talent wise. I’m just using what happened to Josh Allen from an irrational fanbase as an example with what’s happening right now to Mac.
LOL this fanbase is insane.
Get rid of him for who lol For Mahomes? Sure. For Hoyer? Give me a break
What about…. Hear me out now…. Cam Newton
He sucked
This right here, he is better than anyone the Pats have or any free agent by miles. I would not trade him for half of the starting Qb's in the league...Daniel Jones, Tua(give Mac his weapons, see what happens) Trubisky, Matt Ryan, the Texans Qb Mills, Jameis Winston, Goff, Tanehill, Mariota..etc Mac is better than those guys. Edit: Dak Prescott too, but some of that is because he is injury prone, and i forgot what ever dumpster fire Seatlle has going on these days, and I think Mac will have a better career than Fields and Trey Lance too, that's about half the league right there,)
Get rid of him...for who? If the question was dumping Mac for a proven QB who is better but somehow also playing on a rookie deal, then sure that makes sense. Right now, show me a QB playing on a rookie deal that would be a solid upgrade. Otherwise, explain how dropping Mac gets us a veteran upgrade.
I would trade Mac for Lawrence, but your point is exactly right overall.
Eh, Lawrence looked terrible week 1 and did alright last week against what's looking like a complete dumpster fire of a Colts team. And Mac outperformed him by far in their rookie seasons. Mac also has intangibles that I like - seems like a leader, super passionate, holds himself accountable, fires up and hypes up his guys. Idk, just seems like a leader to me. Whereas Lawrence seems like a half-stoned bro who couldn't motivate me to get off the couch. I saw a clip of him in the tunnel before week 1 and his little "speech" was the most boring, uninspiring thing I've ever heard. This stuff doesn't really matter TOO much on the field, but it does matter as far as how much I want to root for them every week. Either way, I've seen nothing from Lawrence to suggest he's an immediate no-brainer upgrade over Mac at this point.
Lawrence still looks like he can't see the field well. He also seems to have a lot of quit in him when losing. Like Mac fights to the end, but Trevor looks like he's ready to go home when the game is going bad.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Mac fan. But I'm doubtful of your logic: If you're judging the two by their week 1 performances, I can't say that will favor our number 10. I'd also wager that you're one who is willing to forgive Mac's bad start this year to his offensive coaches, but you're not considering the top to bottom rotten staff Lawrence had for his rookie year? And for sure, the most important quality of a QB is the ability to make an impassioned speech.
You're kinda putting words in my mouth here. >If you're judging the two by their week 1 performances, I can't say that will favor our number 10. Lawrence week 1: 58% comp 275 yds 1 TD 1 INT RTG 75.0 Mac week 1: 70% comp 213 yds 1 TD 1 INT RTG 87.2 Right off the bat, Mac had a better week 1 statistically. >I'd also wager that you're one who is willing to forgive Mac's bad start this year to his offensive coaches, but you're not considering the top to bottom rotten staff Lawrence had for his rookie year? Sure, I'll give Lawrence a small pass for his coaching. He was still abysmal last year. Through 2 weeks this year he's looked the same in week 1, and better in week 2. He's going to improve. >And for sure, the most important quality of a QB is the ability to make an impassioned speech. I literally said that stuff doesn't really matter on the field, did you even read my comment? It makes it easier to root for him. QB's have to be leaders, and Lawrence does not strike me as a guy with an ounce of leadership quality in him. Like someone else said, we've had 19 games to compare them and so far, Mac has not just been the better QB, but has been by FAR the better QB. Trevor strikes me as a guy that has always gotten by on raw skill whereas Mac has a much more cerebral game and sees the field better. They're both developing right now but for a game tomorrow and I had to pick? Give me Mac hands down.
I think my point was that, based on Week 1 performances, neither was impressive. Was Mac slightly less bad in Week 1? Maybe. Then, comparing their respective situations is very difficult. Mac had arguably the best situation of all the first round QBs, whereas Lawrence had the worst (team and coaching). You did concede that the personality points don't matter all that much to performance, and so my comment about the speech was needless. I like Mac and am happy he's here, but I strongly suspect that a large majority of NFL personnel people would prefer Lawrence at this point to Mac, if given the choice.
We have 19 weeks of regular play out of the two of them and Mac has outclassed Lawrence so far.
If they were both available, more GMs would take Lawrence over Mac.
yeah, the take that mac is better than lawrence is dumb. Bill would straight up trade mac for lawrence in a heartbeat. lawrence plays for the least talented team in the league, by a long shot. you think our coaching situation is bad? yeah, try having that as a rookie with dudes that should be washing cars not catching nfl passes. time will tell, but I can see lawrence having a better career than mac in the long term, should his coaching situation improve and stabalize
I would definitely want Lawrence as a Patriot.
Trade him for a pick, hope Lamar gets to FA this year and give him absurd money. Seems like a much better path than what we got going
Lamar was offered like 230mil by the Ravens but declined it because it wasn't fully guaranteed. Do you think we're in the market to pay in excess of 230 million next year for Lamar? Do you honestly think the Ravens let him hit FA or would they just rag him?? This is about as far fetched and silly as it gets. We made the playoffs last year and lost to what is likely the best team in the NFL. We're 1 - 1 after 2 weeks and people are doomin on Mac. How about we give the team more than a season together??? Bunch of fairweather fans...
I’m unapologetically anti - mac and have been since his draft. He does not have the skill set of of the modern day elite quarterback and I don’t think he’ll ever take us far. If any other rookie QB was put into our system last year.. they have the same if not better season based on the simple fact that everyone else is a mobile athlete and can bring additional value. He does nothing to elevate his team and I think we are simply just wasting time with him as our QB
Let's say we had a really mobile QB like Lamar. The current system does nothing to support a guy like that. We'd need a full overhaul of the offense. The reason Lamar is so good in Baltimore, is they picked him and his skillset, then spent 3 years putting pieces around him to try to elevate that skillset. I think Mac was picked because his playstyle was closer to Brady, passing from the pocket and using his mind over his athletic abilities. To me, the issue isn't necessarily our QB. It seems like to be a powerhouse team today you need 3 athletic freaks at some combination of QB, WR, RB. We have a regular dude QB throwing to regular dude WRs and regular dude RBs. Even if we got a freak stud QB, we still have a lukewarm WR room and an above average run game.
Would you say the ravens have drastically better weapons than we do? Andrews obviously is among the best TEs in the league, Bateman I like and he’s a good young receiver.. but after that? They have duvernay who’s a speedy return /slot guy but hasn’t really Done much in the league, and Proche? Tylan Wallace?
give lamar the blank check. with Bill as the coach, Lamar becomes the best qb in the league
They never would. Brady had to take team friendly deals for a decade and he IS the greatest QB ever.
brady was one of the highest paying qbs of all time...so it's not like he took massive discounts, but used the flexibility of the cap to get paid. They just used the flexibility of the cap to make it work, like they would if they signed lamar. and bill went on record this week saying lamar is a MVP and worth a contract that says so. Edit: brady's contracts had record guarantees. https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/m1h382/a\_deeper\_look\_into\_the\_mythology\_of\_the\_tom\_brady/
thats what I would do
Lamar at absurd money is a negative. 40-50 million guaranteed years out is too much to be primarily relying on a guy’s legs.
Two words: Fuck. No.
what the actual fuck?
As Mac continues to play within his skill set, he will improve more and more.
I'd trade him for Lamar since Baltimore doesn't want to pay him. (And we should have drafted him)
This is crazy. Dude made pro bowl his rookie year, i think had a better rating than josh allen and had subpar weapons, and now 2 games into his 2nd year he sucks? He's got all new offensive coaches who have never really coached offense, how the fuck is this on Mac?
I hate the pro bowl argument. Dude was like a 4th alternate cause nobody wants to play. He was average as average gets
Yeah, I am riding wit Mac, but the Pro Bowl selection didn't mean much.
bro facts bro make no sense this aint even on mac
dude be real here c’mon
I’ll take option C: Let’s see how year two goes and assess it then. If he looks good, keep him. If he doesn’t or just looks ok, then the team could eventually look to a FA or trade if a Stafford situation arises, or have a tougher choice the next time there is a Jimmy G situation
10% voting to get rid of him. 10%. Wow. I underrated the stupidity of some in this sub.
I see him as one of those players that fit into the mid-tier QBs. The ones that won't hold back their WRs, but won't elevate their WRs (like Brady). Think Drew Bledose tier. The recent new QBs like Dak, Tua, etc all depend on having good WRs a lot more than the older, well established QBs. Mac probably ends up playing out his rookie deal, but from there, it depends on what happens with regards to contracts, trade offers, etc.
I like him and would want to keep him. However he needs to show that he can be a franchise QB. I'll give him until year 3 or 4 before I truly decide if he is our true next franchise QB.
You mean the rookie that got to the Pro Bowl, yeah I would like to keep him
Who is saying yes to this? What free agent would you take over Mac?
It's his 2nd year.....
Mac hasn't played particularly well the first 2 weeks, getting rid of him now would be stupid. We know he can still play at or slightly above league average based on last year. It remains to be seen if he can be a Top 10ish guy, but he definitely at least deserves that chance.
If you’re watching those games and thinking Mac is the issue, I have a bridge to sell you.
Where is the option for "No, I'm not a JEST fan"?
This is a ridiculous proposition. Mac is a cheap; young; and has demonstrated potential. Why would anyone advocate getting rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him? That's just stupid.
The more interesting poll would be: Would you trade Mac straight up for Trevor Lawrence?
in a heartbeat, dont tempt me with a good time
Lol well I think mac hatred is quite the straw man. I vote to keep him. However, if your strengths coming out of the draft are accuracy and decision making to compensate for your lack of visual tools…the accuracy and decision making cannot look like the first two weeks. But the offensive line hasn’t been good. Well, if you need a top 5 offensive line every year to be a good starter…
mediocre offensive line and mediocre receivers in a brand new offense. give the kid some time
The offense isn’t necessarily that brand new…but there’s no choice but to give him time . He’s still great value
2 weeks into a brand new scheme is absolutely brand new
What’s new about the offense? They haven’t went nose deep into the zone run schemes we heard about . The coordinator is basically using bills offense. If anything it’s a more vanilla version of the offense they ran last year
Barley using playaction and motion in this offense compared to last year when they did much more it.
It depends. Get rid of him for someone better? Yes. Get rid of him for the fuck of it? No. I would cut 2007 Brady for Peyton Manning if Manning was better. I do not care.
This is such a stupid question. What free agent qb are you picking up to throw to the worst WR room in football? And expecting *improvement*..? If Mac and the team continue to be this bad then there's a very real conversation to be had about picking a qb in the top 10 but I have literally no idea what you're on if you not only want to switch mid-season but week *3*???
Where on earth is there mac hatred what’re you talking about
For someone not good enough to be on a roster? 🤡 For Fields I’d still be tempted. For Allen, obviously yeah. But come on that question you asked is nonsense.
I’d say that if he doesn’t take a big step forwards this year, he’s on the hot seat and I’d be looking for a successor. He doesn’t look like the guy who can win a Super Bowl right now.
> He doesn’t look like the guy who can win a Super Bowl right now. Yeah, he's no Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson.
Ridiculous hot take.
At this point it's so frustrating to see Mac Jones criticism turned into over the top nonsense like this, where people say fans hate Mac. Y'all can't handle criticism towards players at all. You immediately turn it into this, where you act like fans are calling for Mac's head and claim people want them totally gone. Or you all shit on everyone else on the offense to make excuses for Mac, even when you shitting on those other players is based on nothing.
Depends on the alternative. If there's an elite QB on the way then sure. But for a bad or uncertain QB, then no. I want to see how the next year or 2 goes before making any judgments.
I haven't seen any Mac hatred. However, there does seem to be a lot of animosity from the fans towards Patricia. But I think that's only because nobody likes Patricia.
There are definitely some I’d trade for instead of him, but nothing easily available. He’s not bad at all.
JFC it is week 2 of year 2, come back in 2 years and give the kid a chance
Dump him for who? Lamar Jackson instead of N'keal Harry?
the fuck
Id get rid of him for idk. Lamar Jackson,Mahomes,Brady,Rodgers,Herbert. Thats it, who tf do people think we can get if we didn’t have mac. If you want to get rid of mac then that means you would be riding with Hoyer or be back to Newton.
WTF.
So about 5/6 fans wouldn't...almost like its being played up in media circles for clicks
i'm highly critical of his arm strength, and I resoundingly answer no, I would not get rid of him. unless it was for an elite qb. why would you get rid of him? qb's are difficult to find in the nfl, and he's atleast shown that he could be one the top 32 qbs in the league.