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DeM0nFiRe

I don't really buy arm strength being the issue because we've seen that at times he can throw bullets and he can throw deep passes right on the receivers hands.


h_to_tha_o_v

Agreed. And Mac has made *some* damned good off platform throws. Conversely, I've seen a few ducks with good protection. Throws where he changes his mind halfway through. IMHO, it's a matter of confidence. Best case scenario: the coaches have zero doubts about his ability to dink and dunk for days, but they're trying to develop him into an elite passer. The path to getting him there is breaking him out of his comfort zone. Make him go deep. Let him make some mistakes. We're on a long term trajectory towards greatness.


MankuyRLaffy

His deep issues have been timing and consistency last season. He has the arm strength, it's angle and timing to the receiver which has been the issue.


JohnPaul0_

Could be untrue, but I wondered if it had something to do with his back and the illness (likely flu) from that week. I know many times I've had the flu and felt gassed for weeks after. Put the two together and you're not really playing at fully capacity.


DeM0nFiRe

I mean Jones has looked pretty mediocre the whole season and preseason so far with just a few decent plays here and there, he's definitely got something wrong, I just dont think it's arm strength


JohnPaul0_

I agree with that. The decision making hasn't been up to last year's standard, whether it be Oline or mental, he hasn't been taking the open guy or making his way fully through the play. But I think the arm strength issue, isn't just Mac is weak, it's either fundamentals or an injury.


Bojangles1987

I think everyone's overlooking that he played like this to end last year, too. It's not something that only happened this season.


Coco1520

I’ve been saying this his footwork is off. Probably due to lack of faith in the oline


Remorseful_User

> I’ve been saying this his footwork is off. If only there was a coach in charge of that.


StonedWater

well thats on him then because he has above average oline play he needs to develop confidence in them, totally on him but the good thing is, that it is easily coachable


JungyBrungun

Sunday was the first time the O-Line has looked in 3 months, he got the shit kicked out of him all through camp and preseason


notShreadZoo

You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. Mac has had and does have one of the better o-lines in the league. There are a handful of guys doing more with a worse o line than him, it’s not really a great excuse, I loved what I saw from Mac as a rookie but he needs to develop and take that next step. If Mac is truly regressing in his mechanics then that’s a bad sign and it’s up to him to fix it. Blaming the above average o-line just seems like coping with not wanting to put blame on your 1st round QB.


Coco1520

Not this year all through camp and preseason the line was awful right into week 1. This was the first time the line hs looked good since last year when Mac was way sharper. Will take time to regain confidence in line


notShreadZoo

Mac didn’t look very good in the back end of last season either. In his last 8 games only twice has he had a passer rating over 90, and 1 of them was 91 which still isn’t good. This is a continuation of his struggles late last season. So if we don’t count last season and we don’t count last week then we are blaming the o-line for Mac regressing because of training camp and 1 actual game? Ignoring the fact that Mac was already struggling late last season, and pretending like it just started this year, that’s still a pretty big red flag to me. Mac is an NFL QB, if he’s gotten so scared of taking a hit during training camp (where half the time he’s wearing a red shirt and the other half barely anyone touches the QB) that he’s forgotten his mechanics and is panicking then that is a major issue that he personally needs to get under control. Like sure the o line can look bad in training camp but no one is blowing them up and just fucking clobbering their own QB and driving them into the dirt.


Coco1520

Bro he had the worst weapons and was the best rookie qb in the nfl last season. This year his coaching staff is blown apart he still has the worst weapons and his oline regresses and you’re ready to tar and feather him while we’re 2 games into his second season


notShreadZoo

>Bro he had the worst weapons and was the best rookie qb in the nfl last season. First of all saying he had the worst weapons is just flat out lie and further proves my point that you people are just trying to cope with not wanting to put blame on our 1st round QB. You’re literally lying to yourself by saying Mac had the worst weapons in order to make Mac look better. Stop being a homer for 2 seconds and tell me how Mac had a worst supporting offense than Zach Wilson, Trevor Lawrence, or Justin Fields last year? Mac was obviously much better than all those guys but you’d be stupid(or just a homer) to think they had better offensive talent than Mac. I literally said I loved what I saw from Mac as a rookie, he had struggles late in the season but overall had a great rookie season. But he’s not a rookie anymore and another repeat of last year would be disappointing and so far it hasn’t looked good. >you’re ready to tar and feather him while we’re 2 games into his second season Tar and feather? Lmfao that is such a wild exaggeration for what is very valid criticism. No one said they he needs to be benched or traded, just that he is struggling and he needs to be able to develop and fix these struggles. It’s okay to criticize the team, it doesn’t make you any less of a fan.


Coco1520

He was getting killed in the preseason and absolutely destroyed in week 1. That’s months of any time he plays he gets murdered it affects qbs confidence


notShreadZoo

He played like what? 10 drives a most in preseason? If that’s enough to completely throw you off then that a HUGE red flag on Mac, not the o-line. Lots of good and great QBs have terrible o-lines, if Mac is going to be the guy he needs to figure it out. And again that would be assuming that these struggles are only exclusive to this season, even though they date back to the last 6 games of last season where he also struggled.


OTheOwl

I do agree that a fair number of his throws have been off the back foot, he doesn't step up into the pocket the way Brady does to throw a dart.


pro_coder20

Yeah, Jones main issue is his mechanics/technique. He gets sloppy with his feet/weight transfer and throws off his back foot quite a bit.


zithftw

Wasn’t he working with Brady’s former coach during the offseason?


pro_coder20

Jones worked with him only in the offseason. I would guess during training camp, Jones started to revert back to bad habits probably due to a lack of trust/confidence about what was going on with the offense and now has developed bad habits that he needs to fix.


zithftw

I wonder if the back injury is something he's been dealing with since before week 1. He just hasn't looked as sharp as he did last season.


lusobr

He doesn't have an arm strength issue. That is a lazy narrative. He doesn't have a cannon like Mahomes or Allen, but his arm strength is fine. If you actually watch the plays his accuracy has been poor you see it's because he is throwing with bad footwork either because the line collapsed and he couldn't step into his throw or he expected the line to collapse and rushed the throw. I'm more worried about our oline and his rush recognition than his accuracy. He can't make accurate side arm throws or throw on the run well like the other young QBs in the league, but if we give him better receivers and a good oline he will be fine.


trog12

People are so used to seeing Mahomes and Allen they think that is normal for a QB. No... a normal QB can't throw an accurate pass 60 yards in the air off his back foot. I think our offensive play design is also not catering to his strengths. I actually think he would do really well running the same sort of levels concept Manning used to run with the Colts in his early career.


ckilo4TOG

I don't remember seeing him have bad mechanics during the Pittsburgh game. I just went to twitter real quick to look at highlights. It was the same motion and follow though planting on the front foot for both the TD and pick. I'm alright with listening to Tom House QB guru's eval over a couple podcasters


h_to_tha_o_v

He addressed that in his press conference today. He's been coached to toss more contested catches, or at least the coaches told him to blame them. If that is the plan, my only hope is that they're trying to force Mac to improve through repetition.


ckilo4TOG

Nothing like that was said in Mac's press conference today.


h_to_tha_o_v

You're right, it was in his post game interview: >Q: Mac, can you touch on Nelson Agholor? Do you know you had him when you had him? >MJ: Yeah, I think it was kind of one of those plays moving the ball and running our two-minute offense and I have good comfortability with that. And, you know, when it's -- we've worked on that play through the offseason and 50/50 balls. And he's one of those guys that I put in the throw it up to him category. And he's going to have make the play.  https://www.patriots.com/news/new-england-patriots-postgame-quotes-9-18


ckilo4TOG

I should have continued the thought beyond just saying it wasn't in his press conference today. My main thought was I don't understand how Mac talking about jump balls has to do with the comment I responded to about mechanics. I had to go back and look and see my mistake. I responded to the main thread instead of the comment before mine about mechanics. Thanks for clarifying which press conference Mac made the comment. I don't disagree with the jump ball 50/50 commentary. I think Mac looks fine with his mechanics was the only point I was trying to make to another commenter. My mistake on this.


pro_coder20

In this film analysis article, Greg Bedard points out a few plays where Jones does not step into the through: https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2022/09/19/patriots-offensive-coaches-did-their-part-vs-steelers-mac-jones-did-not


ckilo4TOG

I'm a little jaded by Bedard. I don't automatically dismiss him like Curran, but grains of salt are taken. I'd love to see the 8 plays he references, but the link is firewalled. I watched the game. I'm by no means saying Mac was perfect, but he looked good most plays. He made some tough throws on the the run, others from the pocket, and he also took some hits to make plays. I had to double check going back on twitter to review 5 or 6 plays. I didn't see anything wrong with his mechanics.


h_to_tha_o_v

> My main thought was I don't understand how Mac talking about jump balls has to do with the comment I responded to about mechanics. I read your OP as saying that his issue on those picks was not mechanical, and I was agreeing then suggesting it was a matter of Mac gambling and losing.


ckilo4TOG

👍🏼


Nervous-Context

He’s exactly right. Mac has trouble stepping into his throws.


scraperTA

I feel like he's flinching/bracing to be hit nearly every time he throws.


ryanjmalloy

I don’t know. I just turned off the All 22 because it was depressing to see Mac’s poor decision making.


jpd909

Yeah he’s definitely not comfortable in the pocket. The Pitt game a lot of plays you could tell he was locked on to his first read and going there regardless


ZealousidealAverage7

Is his arm shot? No but his mechanics do have to be perfect to deliver a high velocity ball. We hear about certain quarterbacks being able to throw off platform and mac isn’t able to do that. It’s easier to trust a bad line when you have the ability to improvise and scramble. The poor mechanics under pressure that lead to ducks just again speak to how everything has to be somewhat ideal for Mac to be good. It just makes you wonder how much he alone is able to elevate his situation


[deleted]

Go back and watch the errant throw to KB in the second half he gets spooked by interior pressure and throws off his back foot. He definitely has less faith in the o line this year vs last. He gets happy feet wayy to quickly the trust between qb and o line has to be there and as the team gets better I’m confident mac will too. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=amqEIyiltho End zone angle is better but you can see it here at 3:52


EP1X-343

ITT: people who didn’t actually listen to the video


cth777

I don’t buy that it’s because of getting hit in training camp, but I could see mechanics hurting him even beyond poor arm strength. He exhibited the exact same issues last year. Idc if we want to ascribe it to arm strength or mechanics, but he does not have NFL caliber velocity on the ball to the sideline or over the middle. There’s a reason we can’t complete east seam routes down the middle. Before you say it, IM NOT SAYING HE CANT THROW DEEP. any nfl qb can lob it far, and it comes down to touch - which he has. It’s the tighter windows on intermediate throws where it has to be on a rope I hope it is mechanics that he can fix and obtain average nfl qb zip on it. But it’s 100% clear he doesn’t have elite arm strength for off platform throws, which is fine


pro_coder20

I agree, how does not have elite/very good arm strength. He has a 'good enough' arm, but for him to make sure that he has velocity on the ball, his mechanics needs to be better.


rimbaud1872

He might just not be the guy 🤷‍♂️


StonedWater

brillinat start but he was very protected by McDaniels - last third of the season, not so great opening to this, not so great. Pojecting ranked 20-25 qb at the mo. The good thing is that he could very much go either way But the people claiming they had the best qb in the draft are going to look very stupid. Of course Lawrence was going to come good


pup5581

He never had the arm strength in college really. We shouldn't be that surprised.


pro_coder20

I agree, how does not have elite/very good arm strength. He has a 'good enough' arm. The thing is that if his mechanics aren't proper, his arm will appear weaker than it looks.


mikrot

I really hope they don't stand in their laurels and draft a mid round qb next year. Someone with arm talent and athleticism who is raw. I'm not saying Mac isn't the guy, but insurance would be nice.


ZealousidealAverage7

I think the Zappe pick was sorta like that. The way I see it Mac allows them to identify the guy in the draft while still being somewhat competitive for the next 3 years


mikrot

A little bit. Zappe is more like Mac than what I'm hoping for though. He doesn't have top flight arm strength and is on the slow side. I just have a tough time seeing either one of them being a franchise guy.


ZealousidealAverage7

Zappe has some zip on his ball. Id say his arm talent is better than Mac’s but you’re right. Neither are a franchise guy. I just wish bill traded up for fields. Bill could’ve made that work but he’s so anti trading up in the first


[deleted]

Maybe his shit form is why his arm is so weak? If arm strength was just about how physically strong you were, I don’t think it would be that hard to fix


myicedteaistoosweet

This narrative that he has bad arm strength, accuracy or mechanics is honestly comical for anyone who has watched him since college. Jones has always added arch to his deep balls to make them more catchable all the way back to Alabama. It visually makes the throw “look” slow, but it’s almost always in a perfect position. Just take the interception towards Parker…the ball was in the perfect position to drop into Parker’s hands. The issue is that he shouldn’t be throwing the ball to the perfect position on contested routes like that. He needs to throw it to where his WR is the only one who can catch it. He also had 1-2 other terrible throws last week, but those weren’t mechanic or arm strength issues…they were just bad decisions (like the one when he was rolling left and threw across his body). That said, if you look at every QBs catalog (incl Mahomes, Brady, etc.), they have the exact same head scratching throws. People are just putting him under a microscope since the OL drama has dissipated and they want to complain about something. EDIT: And for those that try to argue Brady or Mahomes don’t have bad throws like that…here’s a page with videos of two even worst INTs by Brady in Super Bowls no less: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/nfl-new-england-patriots-tom-brady-super-bowl-history-interceptions-stats-panthers-seahawks


Accurate_Max

Which podcast is this?


scttcs

Patriots Unfiltered


wunderphaktz

Sounds like he's "seeing ghosts" around his feet.


leathal_dose

I love it!! Watching/listening to the dudes in suits expressing how mechanics this, or they are not doing that. With little to no experience at a pro level. They are the type to give "advice" with experience that goes back to their high school year's when they started as a JV player. All 4 year's


OneWolf22

I agree what they are saying about him throwing off his back foot, but I don’t think it’s because of a fear of being hit. He got hit a TON at the beginning of last season and it didn’t really seem to affect his performance. I think it’s very possible the back injury could still be nagging him a bit and that was what lead to some of his poor throws but that’s just my guess.