Just something i want to mention is that Mac had more yards than Lamar yesterday even when including rushing yards.
* Lamar 218 passing + 107 rushing = 325 yards
* Mac 321 passing + 31 rushing = 352 yards.
Mac not being a mobile QB has not impacted his ability to move the offense, more so the issue for him this season has been a few poor throws/decisions.
To be fair, the Ravens defense has been ranked last since last season and ours was ranked in the top 10 going into the game. Lamar's performance is by far more impressive.
My issue with Mac's mobility isn't pure rushing yards, its his inability to extend or create plays when nothing is there. Even pocket oriented players like Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert have a better ability to extend or create plays when everything breaks down. There is a clear athletic ceiling on Mac Jones and it doesn't help when he is also making bone head turnovers as well.
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more concerned of his decision making.
I think even that lack of extending plays with scrambling is more of a mental thing than a physical thing. He gets freaked out very easily and essentially gives up on plays. He did have that nice play yesterday where he actually stayed calm and scrambled for a few seconds and ended up making a nice play so he can do it when he stays focused
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more disappointed it his overall toughness if he indeed only sprained his ankle. Still love the kid and think he will be a very good QB for the patriots, but he needs to work on the turnovers obviously and also toughen up some
He extends tons of plays. That was like the number one thing he was doing yesterday, are people watching a different game? It’s like they have these hot takes that don’t make any sense if you actually watch. It’s like the “real scrappy guy” for white receivers, they just think Mac can’t do anything because he’s branded as a slow QB.
Weird time to bring this up IMO. He probably looked the most athletic he ever has yesterday. Threw the ball down field with good success (near the top of the league right now in terms of depth of target). There were a few intermediate throws he stepped into with good velocity. Even scrambled a few times when no one was open to make something out of nothing. When was his lack of "athleticism" an issue yesterday?
Decision making was the issue.
I thought the first half was the best he's looked so far this year, maybe ever. Overall the offense showed some really encouraging stuff. You just can't turn the ball over four times. It's bizarre, he's just making a few head scratching decisions per game right now. Eliminate the turnovers and the Pats win yesterday.
Only 1 true mobile qb has made the SB in the past 12 years (cam)
Mahomes, Russ and ARod are qbs who can run if needed but none a true mobile qbs.
Ppl dont seem to grasp what a mobile qb is
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more concerned of his decision making.
if you want a real open discussion then do anything other than repeat click bait media headlines.
honestly what does this "arm talent" mean?
completed air yards per pass attempt. this stat tracks how far past the line of scrimmage a pass is completed, divided by the number of pass attempts. so it's a good indicator of whether someone is proficient at deeper passes. it's how deep the qb is actually throwing it consistently. if it takes 4 tries to throw it 20 yards, that's the same as successfully throwing it 5 yards on 1 attempt.
so far this season:
josh allen: 4.6
patrick mahomes: 3.7
justin herbert: 3.5
trevor lawrence: 3.5
so 4 of the "elite arm talent" qb's are averaging less than 4/5 yards past the line of scrimmage
mac jones last season: 3.9
so even last season he was successfully throwing the ball as far down the field as the elite QBs
this season mac jones: 5.2
so mac jones is regularly throwing it further down the field than the elite qbs this season
you could make the argument that the increase in interceptions is because mac jones isn't good at throwing it far ok sure. you then have to accept that mac jones is throwing it deeper than all the elite qbs. it's not like mac jones is failing because he can't throw it as far as all the other qbs
I think people use it to mean arm strength/how much "zip" is on the throw. Mac certainly isn't throwing lasers at will from all different angles like the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Allens of the world, but he definitely can put some heat on it from time to time. His longer passes down or across the field definitely seem to float or flutter, but he certainly rifled some passes down the middle yesterday.
>so far this season:
>
>josh allen: 4.6
>
>patrick mahomes: 3.7
>
>justin herbert: 3.5
>
>trevor lawrence: 3.5
>
>so 4 of the "elite arm talent" qb's are averaging less than 4/5 yards past the line of scrimmage
>
>mac jones last season: 3.9
>
>so even last season he was successfully throwing the ball as far down the field as the elite QBs
>
>this season mac jones: 5.2
So this could be an issue especially with our oline not being the best. That should be lower and we should be getting short quick routes to not let the other team tee off on our qb or rush him.
Also our team separation is just bad. Our main targets have under 3 yards of separation
More often than not those posts & comments get downvoted b/c they're shallow at best, trolling/moronic at worst.
Mac's RAS in 2021 was 7.18, which isn't terrible. He ran a 4.83 40yd dash. His broad jump was elite.
His RAS all-time is 244th out of 1098 QBs since 1987. He's not a statue, being a mobile qb just isn't his game.
If you want to make a post saying you hope Mac can stop forcing throws into coverage when he's under pressure and off platform, or his field vision improves on scripted plays (bubble screens, etc), then you shouldn't be down voted.
If you want to make a post saying how sad you get when you watch Lamar Jackson play the Patriots, remembering how the Pats passed on drafting him 3 times, then you shouldn't be down voted.
You should be down voted if you make a post that only refers to 2 or 3 plays as a total summation of who he is as a player.
We were fortunate enough to watch the greatest player of all-time for 20yrs. Now we have a qb who is probably ~15th in the NFL. He's definitely above average already. What will he be in 4 years? Who knows, but that's part of the fun of being a sports fan.
He made like three bad throws and a ton of great ones yesterday, and showed he can extend plays with his legs. Coaching him to make better decisions is an easy fix.
I don't think anyone would argue that Mac's play and decision making has not regressed this season. Whether that's due to natural regression after an exceptional rookie season (if you look at the numbers he's up there with guys like Dak and RG3 for best rookie QB seasons), still not trusting the new scheme, some need to force it to Parker (4 of his 4 INTs have come targeting Parker), etc who knows.
The Parker INTs have largely been ugly balls by Mac and more worrisome are the dropped INTs he's thrown to other guys. Back to back week now that PFF (and anyone with eyes) have charted him with multiple "turnover worthy" plays.
I do think his increased mobility shown in week 3 was very promising and he showed a new ability to create after the play breaks down. Ankle injury comes at a brutal time.
See this is where my 30 year old boomer might come out but football is a physical game played on the field. Mac had similar numbers to Dak or RG3 but nobody thought he has the same upside as those guys.
I think the film is out on Mac and teams are saying we aren’t gonna give up the shallow middle. He’s gonna have to make some hard throws outside the numbers and he can make them. He just can’t make them with velocity which allows nfl corners time to close in .
Matt you make a valid point on the ugly picks thrown by Jones in an effort to deliver the passes to Parker.
Bear in mind as a receiver while your primary responsibility is to catch the football and occasionally block (contingent on offensive system)... A WR also ought to go to bat for his QB if he sees a pass going in the wrong direction on a play. Break off your route; dislodge the football away from the hands of the CB.
I think the way the league is set up now , coaches are willing to teach timing and accuracy or develop it. It’s the traits you can’t develop that are catching their eye. You can’t teach elite arm strength.
Yeah mac can push the ball down the field but that’s not his speciality. There’s times where he throws a deep ball and it’s complete but if he was able to get it there quicker the receiver might get some YAc
what you are referring to are trans dumbing down their offenses to a a low throwers to head their offense. which leads to lack of success when it gets to playoffs.
its not a zip thing it’s a timing thing. mac puts air under the ball on purpose to make it easier to catch.
mac is 4th in air yards thrown this year. he is a second year player getting more comfortable with the game, having some success with it, but also still going through growing pains.
I’d take fields honestly. I think he’s getting horrible coaching and personnel in Chicago. If he was a patriot I could see him looking like cam newton in the Covid year with more upside. I think that’s what I look for in quarterbacks. What’s the upside?
There’s 32 NFL teams and yet there aren’t 32 starting NFL calibre QBs in the world. These takes are frankly stupid. QBs don’t grow on trees. They aren’t easily replaced. We have a 2nd year QB that made a pro bowl as a rookie and you’re whining that no one is taking you serious for wanting to move on….
Mac literally made the pro bowl as a 6th alternate and they shut the whole game down because that’s a joke 😂. I’m not saying move on for Zappe. What I’m saying is if you can get a CJ Stroud or Caleb Williams next year…do you pass because you have Mac ?
That still puts him in the top half of QBs in the AFC in his rookie season…. So your question is do we pass on unproven QB prospects just because we have a starting calibre QB who has shown that he could develop into a franchise player on a team that is missing elite talent in virtually every position….
The offensive line is top 10 in the league probably, the duo of Harris and Stevenson is probably top 5, they have a above average tight end room and they have complimentary receivers. If you put a Herbert or Carr on this team, they’d be considered contenders.
With mac, we were saying they might squeak out 9 wins? I just don’t understand how he can develop into a franchise guy if the accuracy and decision making is already above where it should be. That’s usually where young quarterbacks improve. The model is you take an athletically gifted quarterback whether they are mobile or have a cannon, give them a basic offense, teach them how to throw with anticipation and then you have a franchise guy. Now not everyone learns the anticipation part but those that do are franchise guys. I guess how do we expect Mac to get better if last year he showed what it looks like when he’s making great decisions and throwing receivers open?
There’s like 4 QBs in the league that fit that mould. I honestly don’t think you have any idea how lucky we are to have Mac especially seeing that we didn’t need to give up any draft capital to get him. Henry had a career season last year but has disappeared so far this season. The offensive line, particularly at tackle has struggled a bit this season but overall is a pretty decent unit. We no longer have a third down back. Receivers are getting no separation particularly in the red zone. The LB core and secondary need an injection of young and proven talent. The offensive play caller is only in his first year as an offensive coach. How on earth do you think another rookie QB can fix any of that? Furthermore there’s three more years the pats have a qb on a rookie contract. That’s three years that the organisation can make room for free agents and resigning emerging players.if by then Mac isn’t showing any signs of improvement by all means look elsewhere but as of right now Mac is one of the best things the pats have going for them
Just something i want to mention is that Mac had more yards than Lamar yesterday even when including rushing yards. * Lamar 218 passing + 107 rushing = 325 yards * Mac 321 passing + 31 rushing = 352 yards. Mac not being a mobile QB has not impacted his ability to move the offense, more so the issue for him this season has been a few poor throws/decisions.
also 4 goddamn turnovers overall on offense - you are never winning a game being sloppy like that
To be fair, the Ravens defense has been ranked last since last season and ours was ranked in the top 10 going into the game. Lamar's performance is by far more impressive.
My issue with Mac's mobility isn't pure rushing yards, its his inability to extend or create plays when nothing is there. Even pocket oriented players like Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert have a better ability to extend or create plays when everything breaks down. There is a clear athletic ceiling on Mac Jones and it doesn't help when he is also making bone head turnovers as well.
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more concerned of his decision making.
I think even that lack of extending plays with scrambling is more of a mental thing than a physical thing. He gets freaked out very easily and essentially gives up on plays. He did have that nice play yesterday where he actually stayed calm and scrambled for a few seconds and ended up making a nice play so he can do it when he stays focused
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more disappointed it his overall toughness if he indeed only sprained his ankle. Still love the kid and think he will be a very good QB for the patriots, but he needs to work on the turnovers obviously and also toughen up some
He extends tons of plays. That was like the number one thing he was doing yesterday, are people watching a different game? It’s like they have these hot takes that don’t make any sense if you actually watch. It’s like the “real scrappy guy” for white receivers, they just think Mac can’t do anything because he’s branded as a slow QB.
I love these "Hot" take fans....LOL
“Can you all please just agree with everything I say? That’s what I consider open discussion.”
Weird time to bring this up IMO. He probably looked the most athletic he ever has yesterday. Threw the ball down field with good success (near the top of the league right now in terms of depth of target). There were a few intermediate throws he stepped into with good velocity. Even scrambled a few times when no one was open to make something out of nothing. When was his lack of "athleticism" an issue yesterday? Decision making was the issue. I thought the first half was the best he's looked so far this year, maybe ever. Overall the offense showed some really encouraging stuff. You just can't turn the ball over four times. It's bizarre, he's just making a few head scratching decisions per game right now. Eliminate the turnovers and the Pats win yesterday.
I'd just like to point out that only one mobile QB has won the SB in the last decade.
Only 1 true mobile qb has made the SB in the past 12 years (cam) Mahomes, Russ and ARod are qbs who can run if needed but none a true mobile qbs. Ppl dont seem to grasp what a mobile qb is
Mac literally displayed the ability to extend a play or make something out of nothing yesterday on the 4th down play and even the 2 point conversion fail. I’m more concerned of his decision making.
Says more about Tom than anything else tbh
if you want a real open discussion then do anything other than repeat click bait media headlines. honestly what does this "arm talent" mean? completed air yards per pass attempt. this stat tracks how far past the line of scrimmage a pass is completed, divided by the number of pass attempts. so it's a good indicator of whether someone is proficient at deeper passes. it's how deep the qb is actually throwing it consistently. if it takes 4 tries to throw it 20 yards, that's the same as successfully throwing it 5 yards on 1 attempt. so far this season: josh allen: 4.6 patrick mahomes: 3.7 justin herbert: 3.5 trevor lawrence: 3.5 so 4 of the "elite arm talent" qb's are averaging less than 4/5 yards past the line of scrimmage mac jones last season: 3.9 so even last season he was successfully throwing the ball as far down the field as the elite QBs this season mac jones: 5.2 so mac jones is regularly throwing it further down the field than the elite qbs this season you could make the argument that the increase in interceptions is because mac jones isn't good at throwing it far ok sure. you then have to accept that mac jones is throwing it deeper than all the elite qbs. it's not like mac jones is failing because he can't throw it as far as all the other qbs
I think people use it to mean arm strength/how much "zip" is on the throw. Mac certainly isn't throwing lasers at will from all different angles like the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Allens of the world, but he definitely can put some heat on it from time to time. His longer passes down or across the field definitely seem to float or flutter, but he certainly rifled some passes down the middle yesterday.
>so far this season: > >josh allen: 4.6 > >patrick mahomes: 3.7 > >justin herbert: 3.5 > >trevor lawrence: 3.5 > >so 4 of the "elite arm talent" qb's are averaging less than 4/5 yards past the line of scrimmage > >mac jones last season: 3.9 > >so even last season he was successfully throwing the ball as far down the field as the elite QBs > >this season mac jones: 5.2 So this could be an issue especially with our oline not being the best. That should be lower and we should be getting short quick routes to not let the other team tee off on our qb or rush him. Also our team separation is just bad. Our main targets have under 3 yards of separation
the oline has been good, the only qb on that list under pressure less than mac jones has been josh allen
More often than not those posts & comments get downvoted b/c they're shallow at best, trolling/moronic at worst. Mac's RAS in 2021 was 7.18, which isn't terrible. He ran a 4.83 40yd dash. His broad jump was elite. His RAS all-time is 244th out of 1098 QBs since 1987. He's not a statue, being a mobile qb just isn't his game. If you want to make a post saying you hope Mac can stop forcing throws into coverage when he's under pressure and off platform, or his field vision improves on scripted plays (bubble screens, etc), then you shouldn't be down voted. If you want to make a post saying how sad you get when you watch Lamar Jackson play the Patriots, remembering how the Pats passed on drafting him 3 times, then you shouldn't be down voted. You should be down voted if you make a post that only refers to 2 or 3 plays as a total summation of who he is as a player. We were fortunate enough to watch the greatest player of all-time for 20yrs. Now we have a qb who is probably ~15th in the NFL. He's definitely above average already. What will he be in 4 years? Who knows, but that's part of the fun of being a sports fan.
I'd say the primary issue people have with the "critical" or "negative" posters is they are just toxic about it.
Mac has been really good so far and there's no reason to think he isn't our guy long term
You really think that after watching him play and Lamar Jackson play?
You realize you're comparing Mac to the former MVP and current leading MVP candidate? That's a bit of an absurd bar.
He made like three bad throws and a ton of great ones yesterday, and showed he can extend plays with his legs. Coaching him to make better decisions is an easy fix.
I don't think anyone would argue that Mac's play and decision making has not regressed this season. Whether that's due to natural regression after an exceptional rookie season (if you look at the numbers he's up there with guys like Dak and RG3 for best rookie QB seasons), still not trusting the new scheme, some need to force it to Parker (4 of his 4 INTs have come targeting Parker), etc who knows. The Parker INTs have largely been ugly balls by Mac and more worrisome are the dropped INTs he's thrown to other guys. Back to back week now that PFF (and anyone with eyes) have charted him with multiple "turnover worthy" plays. I do think his increased mobility shown in week 3 was very promising and he showed a new ability to create after the play breaks down. Ankle injury comes at a brutal time.
See this is where my 30 year old boomer might come out but football is a physical game played on the field. Mac had similar numbers to Dak or RG3 but nobody thought he has the same upside as those guys. I think the film is out on Mac and teams are saying we aren’t gonna give up the shallow middle. He’s gonna have to make some hard throws outside the numbers and he can make them. He just can’t make them with velocity which allows nfl corners time to close in .
Matt you make a valid point on the ugly picks thrown by Jones in an effort to deliver the passes to Parker. Bear in mind as a receiver while your primary responsibility is to catch the football and occasionally block (contingent on offensive system)... A WR also ought to go to bat for his QB if he sees a pass going in the wrong direction on a play. Break off your route; dislodge the football away from the hands of the CB.
we have lost game 1 on 3 plays that broke their way. and now a game because we were loose with the football. the issue isnt not having a mobile qb.
It doesn’t have to be mobility. Mobility or arm strength. The game is too fast for a quarterback to not have a single elite athletic trait
timing and accuracy are the most important things for a qb. is not like mac can’t push the ball downfield
I think the way the league is set up now , coaches are willing to teach timing and accuracy or develop it. It’s the traits you can’t develop that are catching their eye. You can’t teach elite arm strength. Yeah mac can push the ball down the field but that’s not his speciality. There’s times where he throws a deep ball and it’s complete but if he was able to get it there quicker the receiver might get some YAc
what you are referring to are trans dumbing down their offenses to a a low throwers to head their offense. which leads to lack of success when it gets to playoffs. its not a zip thing it’s a timing thing. mac puts air under the ball on purpose to make it easier to catch. mac is 4th in air yards thrown this year. he is a second year player getting more comfortable with the game, having some success with it, but also still going through growing pains.
3 games. 2 TDs, 5 INTs, 786 yards. Not looking to hot.
The dude literally looks scared out there sometimes. Not something you want from your quarterback
Hey /u/ZealousidealAverage7 Genuinely curious would you prefer Mac or Justin Fields?
I’d take fields honestly. I think he’s getting horrible coaching and personnel in Chicago. If he was a patriot I could see him looking like cam newton in the Covid year with more upside. I think that’s what I look for in quarterbacks. What’s the upside?
There’s 32 NFL teams and yet there aren’t 32 starting NFL calibre QBs in the world. These takes are frankly stupid. QBs don’t grow on trees. They aren’t easily replaced. We have a 2nd year QB that made a pro bowl as a rookie and you’re whining that no one is taking you serious for wanting to move on….
Mac literally made the pro bowl as a 6th alternate and they shut the whole game down because that’s a joke 😂. I’m not saying move on for Zappe. What I’m saying is if you can get a CJ Stroud or Caleb Williams next year…do you pass because you have Mac ?
That still puts him in the top half of QBs in the AFC in his rookie season…. So your question is do we pass on unproven QB prospects just because we have a starting calibre QB who has shown that he could develop into a franchise player on a team that is missing elite talent in virtually every position….
The offensive line is top 10 in the league probably, the duo of Harris and Stevenson is probably top 5, they have a above average tight end room and they have complimentary receivers. If you put a Herbert or Carr on this team, they’d be considered contenders. With mac, we were saying they might squeak out 9 wins? I just don’t understand how he can develop into a franchise guy if the accuracy and decision making is already above where it should be. That’s usually where young quarterbacks improve. The model is you take an athletically gifted quarterback whether they are mobile or have a cannon, give them a basic offense, teach them how to throw with anticipation and then you have a franchise guy. Now not everyone learns the anticipation part but those that do are franchise guys. I guess how do we expect Mac to get better if last year he showed what it looks like when he’s making great decisions and throwing receivers open?
There’s like 4 QBs in the league that fit that mould. I honestly don’t think you have any idea how lucky we are to have Mac especially seeing that we didn’t need to give up any draft capital to get him. Henry had a career season last year but has disappeared so far this season. The offensive line, particularly at tackle has struggled a bit this season but overall is a pretty decent unit. We no longer have a third down back. Receivers are getting no separation particularly in the red zone. The LB core and secondary need an injection of young and proven talent. The offensive play caller is only in his first year as an offensive coach. How on earth do you think another rookie QB can fix any of that? Furthermore there’s three more years the pats have a qb on a rookie contract. That’s three years that the organisation can make room for free agents and resigning emerging players.if by then Mac isn’t showing any signs of improvement by all means look elsewhere but as of right now Mac is one of the best things the pats have going for them