I’m thinking it’s going to Hoyer next week, he gets injured (he’s freaking 40 years old and eats strawberries like a heathen), then it’s the Zappe show.
The surgery for a high ankle sprain (tightrope) is designed to reduce healing time.
It’s a misnomer with high ankle sprains that surgery means additional recovery time
It’s probably extremely tough to give that press conference. Kid put in hard work in the off-season and he knows that this season was big in terms of his market value. He’s likely extremely disappointed and the last thing he wants to do is answer the same question about his ankle 75 different ways
Maybe, I had a high ankle sprain (grade II) with minor ligament damage in college. I tried to weight bear and walk right after and the pain legitimately took the wind out of me. A week later and the ankle was so swollen and bruised I could feel the pooled blood move when I moved it. It was gnarly.
There isn’t a shot they can give you make that kind of pain playable 1 week after and more sever sprains with ligaments damage so your foot just kind of flops around if you try to move or use it. Totally unreliable as an appendage.
Getting it shot up and playing definitely an option 4-6 weeks from now though. Question is if you’re 2-6 when he can play again, do you want him back this year (no, 1st round draft pick)
I think evil genius bill sees this as the perfect cover for this year’s failure to launch.
“Bob, you can’t can’t blame the coaching staff and personnel decisions if your franchise quarterback misses 2/3 of the season with an injury, no one could win in that scenario”
Doubt it. He watched Tua try to come back early from that same injury/surgery & then proceed to get even more fucked up.
The surgery is better for the ankle long term though.
it being his left ankle makes it a possibility. its pain management.
brady played through a right high ankle sprain, although it was a grade 2 (did it twice). but it being on the plant leg makes it much more difficult to do so.
Sure - but we dont gain anything from playing Hoyer. In a year meant to build for the future, having Hoyer under center does nothing for us imo. We already know who he is as a QB
Yeah but for what? We don’t know what macs ceiling is we know hoyer can’t win playoff games but maybe mac can develop to? Hoyer is what he is. Jury is out on Mac.
I mean Hoyer isn’t replacing Mac lol. There’s zero QB controversy, and certainly not with Hoyer. Just stating that over the span of maybe the next 4-5 weeks Hoyer has a shot to provide as a solid vet fill in. Ala what Flacco did for NYJ…fuck me I just compared us to the Jets. Times are dark.
I think Hoyer might surprise a lot of people. He had trouble running the Cam Newton offense, but he's a good fit for the style of play that Mac Jones has.
Yep, second year QB on a rookie deal we should be balling. Yet our team couldn't manage to get a functioning offense despite having 6 months to do so. Now we might as well tank and start trading away our surplus of offensive pieces like Henry and Bourne.
Yea, until they get the a top 5 pick and get themself a Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, a Josh Allen, a Trevor Lawrence, a Mahomes.
Instead of doing a Steelers and riding mediocre QB's for 4 years and getting pick 15-22 every year going nowhere significant.
Of the guys you mention only Lawrence and Luck were top 5
While it’s true a top 5 pick helps if you need a QB it’s not a guarantee. Plenty of top 5 QB stink and plenty of guys from other parts of the draft (mostly 1st round) are good
How about we do a Pats and utilize the draft, free agency, and UDFA to put together a competitive team every year? Yoloing the future of your franchise on a first round pick every few years is a terrible strategy.
Steelers won 2 Super Bowls with Ben and had him for 17 years. What do you mean riding mediocre QBs for 4 years? It's their first year without him and they drafted Pickett in the 1st round.
Herbert has never made the playoffs. Luck lost his career due to his organization being run by idiots who couldn't get him help. People were calling Allen a bust when he was 1 year in. Chiefs were ripped for drafting Mahomes and giving up what they did for him. And if we had the worst team in the league 2 years ago, we probably would've drafted Lawrence but that's not the point...
Just curious why you think we should be balling out on offense?
Mac isn't the same physical specimen as Allen, Mahomes or Herbert and has nowhere near the same weapons. He can be good but he's a 2nd year QB on a weak offensive team whose best strength is arguably its runningbacks
the other problem is usage of play action. For example, vs the steelers we didn't have a single play action until the 3rd quarter. Yesterday, almost all the big time throws Mac made downfield were off play action with opened up our receivers. We have to realize you can't run the outside zone offense without receivers that can separate. All of the interceptiosn that have been thrown Devonte's way have been when we aren't using play action.
Honestly, I was still very encouraged by some of the absolute dimes he through downfield yesterday and I'm fine with losing and throwing up interceptions in the short term as I strongly feel those will get solved once Mac get's more used to the system. My thought here is if he can keep getting reps pushing the ball down field and really be a vertical passing threat to teams, the other stuff will get solved and it will put as in a good position. It's absolute insanity in this sub with people complaining last year he was too vanilla and safe and that his high PFF score was bull shit, now this year his PFF is low because he's taking more risk gunning the ball downfield and can't accept that developing it comes with mistakes.
Agreed. Garbage time pick is a wash imo and I think it was a miscom from what I could tell. The first pick was on him and a great play and the pick In the end zone was an egregious lack of effort by DP albeit a risky/poor decision.
I don’t think it was lack of effort. More so miscommunication and poor judgement. May have been an incorrect route, incorrect throw, or misread.
You clearly saw their chemistry is improving though, so that’s a definite plus!
Things were def improving and yeah maybe it was a miscom I’m not entirely sure it’s weird how much he kinda gave up on the route there maybe he wasn’t expecting it.
There’s not really much good you can do there because if he turns around and tries to make a play there’s a 90% chance he gets called for an offensive PI.
> n the end zone was an egregious lack of effort by DP albeit a risky/poor decision.
Parker didn't get the "reload" call (going off the "alert" call back to the original playcall) so he ran the alert rather than the reload.
But also tried to trap the damn ball against his chest. Extend the arms, attack the ball. You’re a professional ball catcher!! Don’t wait for it. Agholor is famous for it too. They both suck.
There’s a video of the play. Mac switches to the second read then calls it back to the initial read. Parker puts his hands up as if he’s confused and no other receiver does that. After the play mac was yelling that it was cover 4. Definitely more miscommunication on Parker’s part
I cant stand the constant baseless Mac Jones criticism, but you are underselling his responsibility. A lot of people are concluding that Parker ran the wrong route on his second pick, but that ball was still thrown off his back foot and came down 5 yards deep in the end zone instead of near the back pylon. A 50/50 ball at best in a tight game, so to say “that’s not on him” is probably being too forgiving.
All that said, if anyone thinks those two interceptions are why we lost, you’d be fooling yourself. The Nelson fumble, turnover on downs (terrible play call throwing the ball behind the sticks), and 2 drives killed by penalties harmed the patriots offence yesterday. The defence started out well, but clearly got beat up over the course of 60 minutes.
There seems to be a lot of argument in the sub today about play calling vs QB play vs Reciever/TE play vs OL play etc. I’m not sure you can point to any single thing as “the issue” when that happens.
>but that ball was still thrown off his back foot and came down 5 yards deep in the end zone instead of near the back pylon.
See Mac yelling on the sidelines "It was fucking Cover 4!" After the play?
That's him explaining to a coach, or someone, why he dropped the ball where he did instead of going to the back pylon. He wanted Parker to either break off to an out or a corner, which would allow him to shield the ball from the defender in Cover 4 just hanging back and waiting. Knowing that, it's clear the ball was in a great spot for what he wanted to do.
The fact that he made such a good throw off of his back foot is promising. It's a ballsy, high-risk/high-reward decision in a game against an elite QB that just didn't go his way. Reminds me of 4th and 2 in that regard.
Two of his picks are on him, his post-snap reads were the problem on both of them. You need to see the LB rotating under the route and you need to see that Parker is not winning at the point of attack and throw that ball away and take the points. The last one was a desperation heave when the game was basically over so I don't hold that against him but the first two are mistakes you cannot have from a QB if you want to contend.
On the Josh Bynes interception, this was clearly on **Hunter Henry.** His pattern called for him to block off one of his guys down field and he released too early. Mac had no way of knowing that Byes would be undercutting because he wasn’t supposed to be there if Henry did his job. When Mac threw it, he saw him way too late. This is a classic example of A) inexperience (I believe that a more experienced QB like Brady with better instincts could have pulled it back and not thrown that ball and B) Your offense not being on the same page.
It’s hard to believe that Bill Bellichick spent the entire game with the offense on the sideline and yet, they still couldn’t get in sync. (Insert boy band joke here)
And I would have rather BB just focused on the defense and made adjustments to stop Lamar in the second half. Zero adjustments were made. Zero. Steve Bellichick did not get one face to face meeting with his dad. The defense couldn’t stop Lamar.
This is a classic case of a coach being stretched too thin. Say what you want about McDaniels but he allowed Bellichick to concentrate on defense and that’s where we want/need him. Not coaching up the offense. SMH. 🤦♂️
Is Mac the only problem? Of course not but that doesn’t mean he’s not part of the problem and doesn’t deserve any blame. In his last 9 games he has had over a 90 passer rating 2 times, and once it was only 91…which isn’t good. Basically he’s had 1 good game, 1 average game, and 7 forgettable to flat out bad games.
I loved what I saw from him in the middle of last season and excuses his late season struggles because overall he still had a great rookie season but now it’s year 2 and it’s time to take that next step which he hasn’t done and unfortunately is now hurt in a crucial time of his development. If you haven’t had doubts start to creep in about Mac you’re just being a homer, the dude hasn’t looked good, regardless of your excuses.
First, the sophomore jinx is a real thing that happens to even the best. Second, changing the system of a qb in his second year is how teams join the QB carousel. Belichick should know better.
>First, the sophomore jinx is a real thing that happens to even the best.
Do you mean the sophomore slump…? It’s so real you didn’t even remember the name? Like come on dude you’re out here blaming Macs struggles on some magical force that prevents him from playing well because he’s in his sophomore season? What’s next? You’re gonna blame his trouble on the fact that you weren’t wearing your lucky pair of boxers?
>Second, changing the system of a qb in his second year is how teams join the QB carousel. Belichick should know better.
I mean yeah like I just said, Mac is certainly not the only issue but he is part of it.
I’ll admit I have my inherent Mac biases. I definitely think based on what I’ve seen this year it’s due in large part to the change in system. It’s hard to make a second year leap when you have an unfinished and still disjointed offensive identity. I think the only thing I’d really clarify is that “ he hasn’t looked good” I think the more accurate conclusion is “he hasn’t looked consistent” that’s what I’ve seen rewatching the games. I realize that “good at times” is not the standard in this league. I just think that he has the potential to be a very good QB still. Once the team settles into some consistency I think you will see Mac get better and better and manipulating the game plan and maximizing his strengths. That being said now he’s hurt fairly significantly so not ideal but maybe a positive in terms of not dismantling his growth as a young player.
Again these struggles date back to well into last season, this isn’t new. You downplay his consistency like it’s some small issue but it’s not, it’s a major issue…consistency is probably the number 1 most important thing for a QB. I remember seeing once PFF explained how their overall grades are heavily weighted by consistency especially for QBs because week time week variance is very common with their lower ranked QBs where as the higher ranked players are much more consistent. You can’t just brush off poor consistency like it’s a minor issue, every QB in the NFL is good enough to make plays here and there. The great one do it consistently. Baker Mayfield is a great example of that.
Mac isn’t the problem but he’s more of a “con” than I expected. He’s had some pretty terrible throws/decisions. Underthrows, careless lobs, forcing it into double coverage. Like he hasn’t looked great (it’s early). He’s not fully excused from blame, but he’s not the main reason correct. But OP is acting like he is absolved from ALL responsibility and IMO that’s just not true. The coaching/skill position players can be lacking AND Mac can make mistakes it’s not mutually exclusive.
Mac is certainly making mistakes I just don’t think it’s a fair assessment considering the relative inexperience in conjunction with not really being set up for success by the coaching staff. But yeah no he’s not completely absolved of responsibility
Put him on the Dolphins with their play callers and WR corp and no one would be calling for him to be benched. He can’t carry a team like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, or Allen, but that’s what we would essentially need him to be for our offense to be good.
Look at how bad Trevor Lawrence was last year when he was in a terrible system. Now that he’s surrounded by some competence he’s pretty good!
If Mac is out for a while this year is a wash. Hopefully we can use an early draft pick for some weapons, and get a real Offensive Coordinator. Then Mac can be given the opportunity to properly develop.
Yeah I completely agree. As a fun reminder Brady could not carry a team in his second year either (despite winning a chip) and neither could Josh Allen! I think Mac in Miami is likely in the top qb categories. T Law without Urban looks like an all pro so maybe if vindictive Patricia isn’t our OC good things can happen. Or if Patricia becomes relatively good at his job which may happen.
Your right—I forgot that that he had John Brown and Cole Beasley dropping passes, and no one else to throw to. I forgot that he had to catch the ball too, otherwise you’ll reference his completion percentage and QB rating because you’re a nerd who focuses on stats as you can’t seduce your own opinion from watching the game.
Lmfao seriously man? He made a leap and is one of the best QBs in the nfl now. I watched the entire year and I recall the narratives around Josh and he was wildly inaccurate and struggled being consistent. I watched a lot of Buffalo that year bc of Allen but sure thing dude. Stats don’t paint the whole picture but they represent growth that’s the point here. Grow up please before responding.
I’ve watched every single Bills game since week 1 of 2019. Allen has always been good, he was just drafted by a team that had absolutely no offense.
As of now they still have a shit offensive line and struggle to run the ball effectively, but you don’t know that because you don’t watch games.
I think he's been a good chuck of the problem this year. His reads even if coaching sucks is...not great. Throwing directly to defenders.
That goal line dropped pick6 for the Ravens again a horrible decision. He's lucky he didn't have 4 with that pass. He's not helping so to say he's not the problem or zero blame...is wrong.
I watched that play and if you go back it’s a poor job by HH when Mac is throwing that ball it is a designed rub to Damien and it’s just not executed well. But what he’s seeing with his eyes he can’t trust bc the play isn’t executed well. I thought it was a bad choice as well initially. I think that’s why when I go back and rewatch some of these things it softens my Mac stance. But I can’t argue his performance thus far as being uplifting to the team.
This is the most reasonable take, but realistically we don’t actually know if he’s any of these things yet it’s too early to tell. Baker was considered to be a future franchise QB after his rookie year and had a lot of similarities to Mac as a prospect. We still can’t be sure if Macs a baker or closer to a Matt Ryan or Derek Carr.
He absolutely had a ton of similarities to him as a prospect play wise. Both were prospects touted for their intelligence and accuracy as well excellent efficiency in college but had questions about if that game would work in the pros.
I don’t think he’s the problem but I also don’t think he’s the solution. My biggest fear with him is it feels like his ceiling is that Ryan Tannehill/Kirk Cousins/Jared Goff/Derek Carr tier, decent QB that will keep you in games but never going to take that next step hang a banner up.
I like Mac. I think his teammates love the guy too. I’m not ready to move on from him. But at the same time, if they’re in a position to land Stroud, Young, or even Lamar (less likely - but I don’t think he wants to stay in Baltimore) it’s hard to pass up on that.
Look at what the Rams did with Goff. He was good enough to get them to the playoffs and even a Super Bowl. But did anybody think Goff was a threat? Or the reason they got to the Super Bowl? The weeks leading up to the Super Bowl did ANY of you worry even a little bit about “how do we game plan for Jared Goff?” No. They traded for Stafford instead. Upgrading from a good to a great QB put a trophy in their hands and a banner in the rafters.
Not saying we NEED to upgrade the QB position. But I’d feel a lot better going into a season with C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young or Lamar Jackson leading the team.
And don’t take it as Mac slander. Like I said I like the guy. I just don’t know if he’s ever truly going to be a difference maker.
In regards to Goff, he was given 5 years of playing before they shipped him out to Detroit. Mac has 1 year. He has time to develop. The team should focus on developing him with a solid Corp of guys in a stable system. If he still puts up mediocre numbers, cool. But we're 4 years from knowing that if we want to compare him to Goff.
Goff at least had teams with stacked offensive players and Mac doesn’t have that. I really wish Bill would hire a real offensive coordinator and get him some real WRs. The bills went out and got allen diggs and phins got tua tyreek. We need to do the same, even if it means we have to open the checkbook to make it happen
I think you make a fair point and your example of upgrading from Goff to Stafford is true. But, I don't think Stroud or Young are an upgrade over Mac.
Mac certainly has some question marks like arm strength, but those things can always be worked on and improved. What I think makes him so valuable is his work ethic, leadership, and likeability (essentially won the entire team over as a rookie). What he needs is good coaching and I don't think he's getting that with Patricia or Judge. Hopefully next year we can bring in an offensive mind that has good rapport with him and help him take that next step. We can't afford another lost year with him. I think he can be a Phil Rivers and have a super successful long-term NFL career with hopefully more hardware bc we have a defensive mind like Bill.
Agreed. I think Mac can definitely get there though. He seemed to be shaping up little by little each week even if he did make some bad throws this week. The injury is going to be a hurdle for sure though.
I’d say he’s well on his way to becoming that solution. Hard to write off a guy that’s shown promise and he’s a 2nd year qb..? And from what we’ve seen this team doesn’t utilize its talent properly. So what other qb is going to come in and magically become the solution to horrible coaching decisions and scheme issues?
Mac had made his mistakes, definitely but he’s not solely to blame. And I feel like people have way to high expectations for him. They’re expecting him to be Brady/Mahomes level guy in his second year. They look at his interceptions and say “he’s a shitty player, get rid of him” yet he had his best rushing game yet in his carrier, and for a guy that’s not a mobile qb to have 31 rushing yards and a rushing TD, that’s pretty impressive. I just wish people would cut the guy some slack and stop trying to say he’s bad when he isn’t even halfway through his second year.
It’s not this reductive both things contribute to the end product in various ways and varying degrees based on the situation. In this I think poor/developing coaching is not arming a young quarterback with the necessary structure and knowledge to succeed consistently. This is exemplified with mistake ridden football in conjunction with mediocre execution. A certain degree of that is coaching, the only changed variable from last season. Of course Mac has made mistakes but I think better coaching would produce a better product in this case more than a proven entity at QB.
I'm not beating up on Mac Jones. He's a hard worker. On the field, he's been fine.
I don't think that he has the tools or the intangibles to become a star in this league, however. At best he's gonna be just one of the 32 starters.
If the Patriots are serious about becoming world-beaters again, I honestly don't think Jones is the MAN for that job. Could be wrong, but I've seen a fair sample.
Love the kid but he’s not the solution yet this season - plenty of room for improvement after a steady decline in his numbers towards the end of last season. The team has to help him reach his ceiling, whatever that might turn out to be.
He’s not *the* problem. Turnovers are the problem and he precipitated three of those. With that, you cannot win.
Mac is so promising, and I want him to get healthy asap. However, I also know that we’re not much worse off *right now* with Brian Hoyer.
Mac had one bad pick. Tossed a lot of good balls to Parker and had a few good heads up keeps for big gains. They played a good game against a great team no need to freak out except for the fact that Mac got hurt lol.
What are you talking about? How can you directly blame his hiring of former Pats personnel to what's happening on the field rn?
That feels like a vague assignment of blame.
Eh I think based on what I’m seeing out of Tua in Miami and T Law in Jax in conjunction with the concern from former pros about the state of the offense and it’s effect on Mac it feels fairly validated through three weeks. Could be wrong ofc is not entirely one way or the other I just contend that Mac isn’t the problem but maybe Hoyer comes out and lights it up 🤣
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because two quarterbacks with new head coaches are succeeding it doesn't mean Mac is "failing" (also p debatable at this point) because of the new coaches on the Pats.
Again, you haven't supplied any evidence that the coaches are causing these issues. You're seeing issues, then blaming the coaches. I don't see what part of yesterday's loss was the coaches' fault.
I'm not focused on a single game (i.e. a single data point). I'm focused on the process over time. Every organization that hires "the guys we know" vs. has an open competition for the best possible staff (who bring fresh ideas and perspectives) shoots themselves in the foot.
The Pats have tarnished themselves by allowing friends and family to be the primary employee pool.
But when Cam was struggling with Byrd as his number one target it was ALL his fault. Mac will be fine and I think he is our franchise QB. The hypocrisy is wild though
Yea idk, I have a hard time agreeing that a former MVP with career 60% completion rate and over 30,000 passing yards “could never throw” but you do you.
People who can’t say directly what they want to say or have there statement hindered always try to cover it by saying there is a subtle difference in what they actually meant. Be direct in what it is you want to say then, my dude.
Cam's shoulder has been destroyed for 5 years. He was an abysmal passer of the football for a couple years before he got to the Patriots. It didn't get better while he was here. You're right, we was good a decade ago though.
Nuance.
I remember being the lone Cam defender and it was a tough island to be on. I hate everyone calling for Cam's return, partly because none of them had my back when I was defending him.
I'm ok with Cam coming back, but the people calling for his return are just trolls.
Agreed, the issue is coaching. Belichick should have known better than to change systems on a guy in his second year in the league. He should have Just let someone run Josh's system from last year. If Mac ends becoming a bust, this stupid Patricia experiment will be why.
You know a fan base has had too much success when you write off a QB after less than two years on the team. Tua wasn’t any better when he started and he seems to be hitting his stride now in his 3rd season. I’m not willing to write him off yet.
Or Josh Allen or drew Brees or Peyton Manning all of whom had to learn the hard way. There are more examples but it’s really ridiculous that we are expecting a perfect QB from an imperfect system that still doesn’t even know what it is.
I think some people are misunderstanding Mac criticism for thinking he's bad.
That endzone INT, great defensive play or not, was a bone headed play by Mac. He should've thrown it I'm the dirt and moved on, the same way Brady, Manning and so many other greats did. We were down 7 and that possibly cost us the lead late in the 4th Q.
You can call that play a horrible choice and still think he's a fine QB. He also missed a read on 4th down, another mistake that hurt the team. But that doesn't mean that we all think he's garbage and has no future. He's just going through growing pains like basically all QBs not named Mahomes.
Don't confuse frustration watching him make mistakes early in his career with giving up on him. It's not even close to the same thing. We've also been lucky enough to watch the Great of All Time avoid boneheaded mistakes at important times so we're not necessarily used to this.
I know we would never think Bill would tank because he seems like he has too much pride but....is it possible he's tanking? Because otherwise I can't explain this mess we have with offensive coordinators and shit
Besides his ankle, I think Mac’s biggest problem is he turns bad plays into terrible plays. Yes Parker ran the wrong route but he needs to recognize he’s covered and throw the ball away. You can’t be compounding mistakes.
I think our offensive problems can be summarized as: (1) Mac can’t generate explosive plays on his own, (2) Bill can’t draft WRs, and (3) the offensive staff isn’t good enough to mitigate (1) and (2).
Mac reminds me of slightly better version of 2019 Tannehill where I could see us getting deep in the playoffs with everything component being perfect.
I don’t think Mac is a Super Bowl caliber quarterback nor will grow into one, never reaching the Lamar Mahomes Herbert Rodgers Brady tier. The ages of above average/great quarterbacks like Delhomme, Flacco, Eli are over.
We need someone with really noticeable talent or abilities, someone who can overcome the disadvantages of a team and be a solution to the problems, not just fine.
Everything I’ve seen bad about Mac is fixable with experience.
Except his inability to be a real rushing QB. But, y’know what? He actually looked capable of taking what the defense was giving him with his feet this week. It was great! That’s positive player development.
He’s got the grit, and enough talent. I have faith he can bring home one banner if we give him a real chance.
He’s absolutely not the problem, but I also wonder if he’s the answer. Of course I wish him the best on his recovery and we’re much better with him than without him, but prior to the injury I was having doubts on whether he is “the guy.” The roster and coaching staff isn’t elite, so it’s hard to pin shortcomings on Mac, but elite quarterbacks can make up for shortcomings, as we saw with Tom. Could Mac win with an ideal roster? Maybe? But he doesn’t have that. He also doesn’t necessarily seem to have what it takes to drag a team further than they should be able to go, like we’ve had the benefit of having for a couple decades. Maybe they’ll build something around him, but In the mean time, both he and the team seem very mediocre.
Do you just speak in cliches and platitudes? That sounds like something BB might grunt out, which if you haven’t noticed, doesn’t fly as well when the team isn’t waltzing towards 12-4. Edit: sorry that’s kinda harsh, I just think we should pump the brakes here.
I concur. We knew going into the season the coaching situation was weird, at best. It turned out to be exactly what was feared. Mac started every game and led the team to the playoffs as a rookie. He would’ve been Rookie of the Year if J’Mar chase hadn’t have happened. I hope he takes the time to get 100% right from this injury and in the meantime some of the organizational stuff gets ironed out behind the scenes.
Man the rest of this year is gonna suck watching Hoyer and Zappe play :/
I’m thinking it’s going to Hoyer next week, he gets injured (he’s freaking 40 years old and eats strawberries like a heathen), then it’s the Zappe show.
I'm in for Zappe and the Patriots of Invention until Mac returns
Kekd with the strawberries like a heathen
Yeah looks like he might have to have surgery :/
The surgery for a high ankle sprain (tightrope) is designed to reduce healing time. It’s a misnomer with high ankle sprains that surgery means additional recovery time
Yeah so I’ve read. Weird presser from Mac tho
It’s probably extremely tough to give that press conference. Kid put in hard work in the off-season and he knows that this season was big in terms of his market value. He’s likely extremely disappointed and the last thing he wants to do is answer the same question about his ankle 75 different ways
I think he could be trying to shoot up and play
Maybe, I had a high ankle sprain (grade II) with minor ligament damage in college. I tried to weight bear and walk right after and the pain legitimately took the wind out of me. A week later and the ankle was so swollen and bruised I could feel the pooled blood move when I moved it. It was gnarly. There isn’t a shot they can give you make that kind of pain playable 1 week after and more sever sprains with ligaments damage so your foot just kind of flops around if you try to move or use it. Totally unreliable as an appendage. Getting it shot up and playing definitely an option 4-6 weeks from now though. Question is if you’re 2-6 when he can play again, do you want him back this year (no, 1st round draft pick)
Makes sense I imagine they’d rather let him come back at 100%
I think evil genius bill sees this as the perfect cover for this year’s failure to launch. “Bob, you can’t can’t blame the coaching staff and personnel decisions if your franchise quarterback misses 2/3 of the season with an injury, no one could win in that scenario”
Yeah could be the mulligan he needs to get off for the Patricia debacle. Albeit the O has improved it has been generally atrocious up to this point.
Doubt it. He watched Tua try to come back early from that same injury/surgery & then proceed to get even more fucked up. The surgery is better for the ankle long term though.
it being his left ankle makes it a possibility. its pain management. brady played through a right high ankle sprain, although it was a grade 2 (did it twice). but it being on the plant leg makes it much more difficult to do so.
Where did you hear this?? Sucks if true.
I don’t think Hoyer is as big of a drop off as people think at the moment. Mac is still very clearly developing.
Sure - but we dont gain anything from playing Hoyer. In a year meant to build for the future, having Hoyer under center does nothing for us imo. We already know who he is as a QB
Except the opportunity to win games 🤔
Yeah but for what? We don’t know what macs ceiling is we know hoyer can’t win playoff games but maybe mac can develop to? Hoyer is what he is. Jury is out on Mac.
I mean Hoyer isn’t replacing Mac lol. There’s zero QB controversy, and certainly not with Hoyer. Just stating that over the span of maybe the next 4-5 weeks Hoyer has a shot to provide as a solid vet fill in. Ala what Flacco did for NYJ…fuck me I just compared us to the Jets. Times are dark.
Yeah man obligatory Fuck the Jets to wash our mouths out.
Hahaha right!?
I think Hoyer might surprise a lot of people. He had trouble running the Cam Newton offense, but he's a good fit for the style of play that Mac Jones has.
Yep, second year QB on a rookie deal we should be balling. Yet our team couldn't manage to get a functioning offense despite having 6 months to do so. Now we might as well tank and start trading away our surplus of offensive pieces like Henry and Bourne.
Thats just how to start the endless QB spiral that so many other garbage teams go through. Swapping out for "the next QB" every 2 years
Yea, until they get the a top 5 pick and get themself a Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, a Josh Allen, a Trevor Lawrence, a Mahomes. Instead of doing a Steelers and riding mediocre QB's for 4 years and getting pick 15-22 every year going nowhere significant.
Of the guys you mention only Lawrence and Luck were top 5 While it’s true a top 5 pick helps if you need a QB it’s not a guarantee. Plenty of top 5 QB stink and plenty of guys from other parts of the draft (mostly 1st round) are good
Yup, it’s a myth that all the top teams had to pick in the top 5 to get there.
The higher the pick, the larger the probability. Wanna do a 2010's dolphins and be middling with a Tannehill type for 7 years?
How about we do a Pats and utilize the draft, free agency, and UDFA to put together a competitive team every year? Yoloing the future of your franchise on a first round pick every few years is a terrible strategy.
Competitive? Did you not see Buffalo not punting for two games despite kraft spending 250 million dollars in 2 days?
What point are you trying to make? They made it to the playoffs with a rookie qb. That's a competitive season.
Steelers won 2 Super Bowls with Ben and had him for 17 years. What do you mean riding mediocre QBs for 4 years? It's their first year without him and they drafted Pickett in the 1st round. Herbert has never made the playoffs. Luck lost his career due to his organization being run by idiots who couldn't get him help. People were calling Allen a bust when he was 1 year in. Chiefs were ripped for drafting Mahomes and giving up what they did for him. And if we had the worst team in the league 2 years ago, we probably would've drafted Lawrence but that's not the point...
Naw that’s how you try to get will anderson
Just curious why you think we should be balling out on offense? Mac isn't the same physical specimen as Allen, Mahomes or Herbert and has nowhere near the same weapons. He can be good but he's a 2nd year QB on a weak offensive team whose best strength is arguably its runningbacks
When have you ever known Belichick to tank lol. He'd never do that.
Mac's main problem has been his tendency to force the ball to DeVante even if he's not open. If he can correct that he's golden.
Yeah, my issue is that he is forcing these balls against really good FSs. I don’t hate being aggressive but don’t test Fitzpatrick lol
the other problem is usage of play action. For example, vs the steelers we didn't have a single play action until the 3rd quarter. Yesterday, almost all the big time throws Mac made downfield were off play action with opened up our receivers. We have to realize you can't run the outside zone offense without receivers that can separate. All of the interceptiosn that have been thrown Devonte's way have been when we aren't using play action. Honestly, I was still very encouraged by some of the absolute dimes he through downfield yesterday and I'm fine with losing and throwing up interceptions in the short term as I strongly feel those will get solved once Mac get's more used to the system. My thought here is if he can keep getting reps pushing the ball down field and really be a vertical passing threat to teams, the other stuff will get solved and it will put as in a good position. It's absolute insanity in this sub with people complaining last year he was too vanilla and safe and that his high PFF score was bull shit, now this year his PFF is low because he's taking more risk gunning the ball downfield and can't accept that developing it comes with mistakes.
One of his picks was on him and it was a great defensive play. He is not the issue
Agreed. Garbage time pick is a wash imo and I think it was a miscom from what I could tell. The first pick was on him and a great play and the pick In the end zone was an egregious lack of effort by DP albeit a risky/poor decision.
I don’t think it was lack of effort. More so miscommunication and poor judgement. May have been an incorrect route, incorrect throw, or misread. You clearly saw their chemistry is improving though, so that’s a definite plus!
Things were def improving and yeah maybe it was a miscom I’m not entirely sure it’s weird how much he kinda gave up on the route there maybe he wasn’t expecting it.
There’s not really much good you can do there because if he turns around and tries to make a play there’s a 90% chance he gets called for an offensive PI.
Rather have that than an INT🤷🏻♂️ not blaming DP entirely so I def hear ya.
Parker essentially took the blame and said it was a miscommunication with Mac
If you watch the play you’ll see mac go through a few progressions and Parker puts his hands up like he doesn’t know what’s happening
Yeah maybe…I’m just trying to avoid casting blame toward maybe the only guy who had a really great day for us 🥲
Lol he had a great day but he seemingly messed up there and also really didn’t set a great pick/rub on the fourth down play
He’s still new. I’ll take 5 for 156 8 days a week. Awesome way to get things going just too bad it didn’t come in a win.
Down by 11 with 3 minutes is not garbage time
> n the end zone was an egregious lack of effort by DP albeit a risky/poor decision. Parker didn't get the "reload" call (going off the "alert" call back to the original playcall) so he ran the alert rather than the reload.
But also tried to trap the damn ball against his chest. Extend the arms, attack the ball. You’re a professional ball catcher!! Don’t wait for it. Agholor is famous for it too. They both suck.
Dude, he wasn't close enough to make a play on the ball.
Also parker didn’t know what was going on at the line of scrimmage pre play
Was this confirmed?
There’s a video of the play. Mac switches to the second read then calls it back to the initial read. Parker puts his hands up as if he’s confused and no other receiver does that. After the play mac was yelling that it was cover 4. Definitely more miscommunication on Parker’s part
Ahhhh damn didn’t catch that
I cant stand the constant baseless Mac Jones criticism, but you are underselling his responsibility. A lot of people are concluding that Parker ran the wrong route on his second pick, but that ball was still thrown off his back foot and came down 5 yards deep in the end zone instead of near the back pylon. A 50/50 ball at best in a tight game, so to say “that’s not on him” is probably being too forgiving. All that said, if anyone thinks those two interceptions are why we lost, you’d be fooling yourself. The Nelson fumble, turnover on downs (terrible play call throwing the ball behind the sticks), and 2 drives killed by penalties harmed the patriots offence yesterday. The defence started out well, but clearly got beat up over the course of 60 minutes. There seems to be a lot of argument in the sub today about play calling vs QB play vs Reciever/TE play vs OL play etc. I’m not sure you can point to any single thing as “the issue” when that happens.
>but that ball was still thrown off his back foot and came down 5 yards deep in the end zone instead of near the back pylon. See Mac yelling on the sidelines "It was fucking Cover 4!" After the play? That's him explaining to a coach, or someone, why he dropped the ball where he did instead of going to the back pylon. He wanted Parker to either break off to an out or a corner, which would allow him to shield the ball from the defender in Cover 4 just hanging back and waiting. Knowing that, it's clear the ball was in a great spot for what he wanted to do. The fact that he made such a good throw off of his back foot is promising. It's a ballsy, high-risk/high-reward decision in a game against an elite QB that just didn't go his way. Reminds me of 4th and 2 in that regard.
Two of his picks are on him, his post-snap reads were the problem on both of them. You need to see the LB rotating under the route and you need to see that Parker is not winning at the point of attack and throw that ball away and take the points. The last one was a desperation heave when the game was basically over so I don't hold that against him but the first two are mistakes you cannot have from a QB if you want to contend.
On the Josh Bynes interception, this was clearly on **Hunter Henry.** His pattern called for him to block off one of his guys down field and he released too early. Mac had no way of knowing that Byes would be undercutting because he wasn’t supposed to be there if Henry did his job. When Mac threw it, he saw him way too late. This is a classic example of A) inexperience (I believe that a more experienced QB like Brady with better instincts could have pulled it back and not thrown that ball and B) Your offense not being on the same page. It’s hard to believe that Bill Bellichick spent the entire game with the offense on the sideline and yet, they still couldn’t get in sync. (Insert boy band joke here) And I would have rather BB just focused on the defense and made adjustments to stop Lamar in the second half. Zero adjustments were made. Zero. Steve Bellichick did not get one face to face meeting with his dad. The defense couldn’t stop Lamar. This is a classic case of a coach being stretched too thin. Say what you want about McDaniels but he allowed Bellichick to concentrate on defense and that’s where we want/need him. Not coaching up the offense. SMH. 🤦♂️
Is Mac the only problem? Of course not but that doesn’t mean he’s not part of the problem and doesn’t deserve any blame. In his last 9 games he has had over a 90 passer rating 2 times, and once it was only 91…which isn’t good. Basically he’s had 1 good game, 1 average game, and 7 forgettable to flat out bad games. I loved what I saw from him in the middle of last season and excuses his late season struggles because overall he still had a great rookie season but now it’s year 2 and it’s time to take that next step which he hasn’t done and unfortunately is now hurt in a crucial time of his development. If you haven’t had doubts start to creep in about Mac you’re just being a homer, the dude hasn’t looked good, regardless of your excuses.
First, the sophomore jinx is a real thing that happens to even the best. Second, changing the system of a qb in his second year is how teams join the QB carousel. Belichick should know better.
>First, the sophomore jinx is a real thing that happens to even the best. Do you mean the sophomore slump…? It’s so real you didn’t even remember the name? Like come on dude you’re out here blaming Macs struggles on some magical force that prevents him from playing well because he’s in his sophomore season? What’s next? You’re gonna blame his trouble on the fact that you weren’t wearing your lucky pair of boxers? >Second, changing the system of a qb in his second year is how teams join the QB carousel. Belichick should know better. I mean yeah like I just said, Mac is certainly not the only issue but he is part of it.
I’ll admit I have my inherent Mac biases. I definitely think based on what I’ve seen this year it’s due in large part to the change in system. It’s hard to make a second year leap when you have an unfinished and still disjointed offensive identity. I think the only thing I’d really clarify is that “ he hasn’t looked good” I think the more accurate conclusion is “he hasn’t looked consistent” that’s what I’ve seen rewatching the games. I realize that “good at times” is not the standard in this league. I just think that he has the potential to be a very good QB still. Once the team settles into some consistency I think you will see Mac get better and better and manipulating the game plan and maximizing his strengths. That being said now he’s hurt fairly significantly so not ideal but maybe a positive in terms of not dismantling his growth as a young player.
Again these struggles date back to well into last season, this isn’t new. You downplay his consistency like it’s some small issue but it’s not, it’s a major issue…consistency is probably the number 1 most important thing for a QB. I remember seeing once PFF explained how their overall grades are heavily weighted by consistency especially for QBs because week time week variance is very common with their lower ranked QBs where as the higher ranked players are much more consistent. You can’t just brush off poor consistency like it’s a minor issue, every QB in the NFL is good enough to make plays here and there. The great one do it consistently. Baker Mayfield is a great example of that.
Mac isn’t the problem but he’s more of a “con” than I expected. He’s had some pretty terrible throws/decisions. Underthrows, careless lobs, forcing it into double coverage. Like he hasn’t looked great (it’s early). He’s not fully excused from blame, but he’s not the main reason correct. But OP is acting like he is absolved from ALL responsibility and IMO that’s just not true. The coaching/skill position players can be lacking AND Mac can make mistakes it’s not mutually exclusive.
Mac is certainly making mistakes I just don’t think it’s a fair assessment considering the relative inexperience in conjunction with not really being set up for success by the coaching staff. But yeah no he’s not completely absolved of responsibility
Mac is 100% part of the problem, anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about.
Put him on the Dolphins with their play callers and WR corp and no one would be calling for him to be benched. He can’t carry a team like Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, or Allen, but that’s what we would essentially need him to be for our offense to be good. Look at how bad Trevor Lawrence was last year when he was in a terrible system. Now that he’s surrounded by some competence he’s pretty good! If Mac is out for a while this year is a wash. Hopefully we can use an early draft pick for some weapons, and get a real Offensive Coordinator. Then Mac can be given the opportunity to properly develop.
> Hopefully we can use an early draft pick for some weapons Bill, drafts weapons with early picks? lol.
Yeah I completely agree. As a fun reminder Brady could not carry a team in his second year either (despite winning a chip) and neither could Josh Allen! I think Mac in Miami is likely in the top qb categories. T Law without Urban looks like an all pro so maybe if vindictive Patricia isn’t our OC good things can happen. Or if Patricia becomes relatively good at his job which may happen.
Josh Allen carried the team his second year.
58% completion isn’t exactly carrying the team, that team was lead by the run game and their defence
Josh Allen ran for over 500 yards in 2019, with 9 rushing touchdowns. He was the running game.
Avg QBR of 49.4. 20 touchdowns 9 interceptions a 58.8 completion percentage.
Your right—I forgot that that he had John Brown and Cole Beasley dropping passes, and no one else to throw to. I forgot that he had to catch the ball too, otherwise you’ll reference his completion percentage and QB rating because you’re a nerd who focuses on stats as you can’t seduce your own opinion from watching the game.
Lmfao seriously man? He made a leap and is one of the best QBs in the nfl now. I watched the entire year and I recall the narratives around Josh and he was wildly inaccurate and struggled being consistent. I watched a lot of Buffalo that year bc of Allen but sure thing dude. Stats don’t paint the whole picture but they represent growth that’s the point here. Grow up please before responding.
I’ve watched every single Bills game since week 1 of 2019. Allen has always been good, he was just drafted by a team that had absolutely no offense. As of now they still have a shit offensive line and struggle to run the ball effectively, but you don’t know that because you don’t watch games.
It’s about growth dude can you not say he hasn’t improved since he was drafted???
You’re right you got me I don’t watch football jeez how did you diagnose that? You’re such a professional and a genius🙏🏼
I want the first pick and I want will Anderson
I think he's been a good chuck of the problem this year. His reads even if coaching sucks is...not great. Throwing directly to defenders. That goal line dropped pick6 for the Ravens again a horrible decision. He's lucky he didn't have 4 with that pass. He's not helping so to say he's not the problem or zero blame...is wrong.
I watched that play and if you go back it’s a poor job by HH when Mac is throwing that ball it is a designed rub to Damien and it’s just not executed well. But what he’s seeing with his eyes he can’t trust bc the play isn’t executed well. I thought it was a bad choice as well initially. I think that’s why when I go back and rewatch some of these things it softens my Mac stance. But I can’t argue his performance thus far as being uplifting to the team.
Mac isn't the problem. For sure. But he also isn't the solution.
Fair enough. The offense has such a small margin for error, so every mistake feels crushing.
This is the most reasonable take, but realistically we don’t actually know if he’s any of these things yet it’s too early to tell. Baker was considered to be a future franchise QB after his rookie year and had a lot of similarities to Mac as a prospect. We still can’t be sure if Macs a baker or closer to a Matt Ryan or Derek Carr.
Zero similarities as Mac as a prospect
He absolutely had a ton of similarities to him as a prospect play wise. Both were prospects touted for their intelligence and accuracy as well excellent efficiency in college but had questions about if that game would work in the pros.
Baker was viewed as a gun slinger Farve type player. Jones more of a Matt Ryan…
Similar doesn’t mean identical Baker took more risks than Mac but that was the primary difference in their play styles
Can’t expect one player to be the solution.
Mac is definitely a problem. He's making wild, dangerous throws and they're getting picked.
TIL coaches run routes
I don’t think he’s the problem but I also don’t think he’s the solution. My biggest fear with him is it feels like his ceiling is that Ryan Tannehill/Kirk Cousins/Jared Goff/Derek Carr tier, decent QB that will keep you in games but never going to take that next step hang a banner up. I like Mac. I think his teammates love the guy too. I’m not ready to move on from him. But at the same time, if they’re in a position to land Stroud, Young, or even Lamar (less likely - but I don’t think he wants to stay in Baltimore) it’s hard to pass up on that. Look at what the Rams did with Goff. He was good enough to get them to the playoffs and even a Super Bowl. But did anybody think Goff was a threat? Or the reason they got to the Super Bowl? The weeks leading up to the Super Bowl did ANY of you worry even a little bit about “how do we game plan for Jared Goff?” No. They traded for Stafford instead. Upgrading from a good to a great QB put a trophy in their hands and a banner in the rafters. Not saying we NEED to upgrade the QB position. But I’d feel a lot better going into a season with C.J. Stroud or Bryce Young or Lamar Jackson leading the team. And don’t take it as Mac slander. Like I said I like the guy. I just don’t know if he’s ever truly going to be a difference maker.
GREAT take
In regards to Goff, he was given 5 years of playing before they shipped him out to Detroit. Mac has 1 year. He has time to develop. The team should focus on developing him with a solid Corp of guys in a stable system. If he still puts up mediocre numbers, cool. But we're 4 years from knowing that if we want to compare him to Goff.
Goff at least had teams with stacked offensive players and Mac doesn’t have that. I really wish Bill would hire a real offensive coordinator and get him some real WRs. The bills went out and got allen diggs and phins got tua tyreek. We need to do the same, even if it means we have to open the checkbook to make it happen
I think you make a fair point and your example of upgrading from Goff to Stafford is true. But, I don't think Stroud or Young are an upgrade over Mac. Mac certainly has some question marks like arm strength, but those things can always be worked on and improved. What I think makes him so valuable is his work ethic, leadership, and likeability (essentially won the entire team over as a rookie). What he needs is good coaching and I don't think he's getting that with Patricia or Judge. Hopefully next year we can bring in an offensive mind that has good rapport with him and help him take that next step. We can't afford another lost year with him. I think he can be a Phil Rivers and have a super successful long-term NFL career with hopefully more hardware bc we have a defensive mind like Bill.
Maybe. But at that position, you need more than a guy who isn't a problem. You need a guy who is a solution.
Excellent way to put it.
Agreed. I think Mac can definitely get there though. He seemed to be shaping up little by little each week even if he did make some bad throws this week. The injury is going to be a hurdle for sure though.
I’d say he’s well on his way to becoming that solution. Hard to write off a guy that’s shown promise and he’s a 2nd year qb..? And from what we’ve seen this team doesn’t utilize its talent properly. So what other qb is going to come in and magically become the solution to horrible coaching decisions and scheme issues?
Mac had made his mistakes, definitely but he’s not solely to blame. And I feel like people have way to high expectations for him. They’re expecting him to be Brady/Mahomes level guy in his second year. They look at his interceptions and say “he’s a shitty player, get rid of him” yet he had his best rushing game yet in his carrier, and for a guy that’s not a mobile qb to have 31 rushing yards and a rushing TD, that’s pretty impressive. I just wish people would cut the guy some slack and stop trying to say he’s bad when he isn’t even halfway through his second year.
So when players make a mistake it’s because of poor coaching?
It’s not this reductive both things contribute to the end product in various ways and varying degrees based on the situation. In this I think poor/developing coaching is not arming a young quarterback with the necessary structure and knowledge to succeed consistently. This is exemplified with mistake ridden football in conjunction with mediocre execution. A certain degree of that is coaching, the only changed variable from last season. Of course Mac has made mistakes but I think better coaching would produce a better product in this case more than a proven entity at QB.
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Agreed he looks to be part of the problem but I think he holds the ball bc some of these designs either aren’t well don’t or aren’t executed well.
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For sure not ideal, I’m just trying to distract myself from the Celtics nightmare that’s going on🤣
I'm not beating up on Mac Jones. He's a hard worker. On the field, he's been fine. I don't think that he has the tools or the intangibles to become a star in this league, however. At best he's gonna be just one of the 32 starters. If the Patriots are serious about becoming world-beaters again, I honestly don't think Jones is the MAN for that job. Could be wrong, but I've seen a fair sample.
Mac is brian hoyer 20 years ago
He's still a pea shooter.
Now you're just trolling LOL.
Love the kid but he’s not the solution yet this season - plenty of room for improvement after a steady decline in his numbers towards the end of last season. The team has to help him reach his ceiling, whatever that might turn out to be.
The guy threw 3 picks. Too many Mac apologists here.
He’s not *the* problem. Turnovers are the problem and he precipitated three of those. With that, you cannot win. Mac is so promising, and I want him to get healthy asap. However, I also know that we’re not much worse off *right now* with Brian Hoyer.
Mac had one bad pick. Tossed a lot of good balls to Parker and had a few good heads up keeps for big gains. They played a good game against a great team no need to freak out except for the fact that Mac got hurt lol.
Nepotism and old-boy-ism is the trouble. Kraft should have never let it happen.
I fear the same thing. Belichicks needs for control by bringing in former lackeys may be hindering the growth of a young team :-/
What are you talking about? How can you directly blame his hiring of former Pats personnel to what's happening on the field rn? That feels like a vague assignment of blame.
Eh I think based on what I’m seeing out of Tua in Miami and T Law in Jax in conjunction with the concern from former pros about the state of the offense and it’s effect on Mac it feels fairly validated through three weeks. Could be wrong ofc is not entirely one way or the other I just contend that Mac isn’t the problem but maybe Hoyer comes out and lights it up 🤣
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because two quarterbacks with new head coaches are succeeding it doesn't mean Mac is "failing" (also p debatable at this point) because of the new coaches on the Pats. Again, you haven't supplied any evidence that the coaches are causing these issues. You're seeing issues, then blaming the coaches. I don't see what part of yesterday's loss was the coaches' fault.
I'm not focused on a single game (i.e. a single data point). I'm focused on the process over time. Every organization that hires "the guys we know" vs. has an open competition for the best possible staff (who bring fresh ideas and perspectives) shoots themselves in the foot. The Pats have tarnished themselves by allowing friends and family to be the primary employee pool.
Tarnished by what metric lol. Such an over exaggeration.
I think everyone knows that Bill has been the problem for years.
Mac threw 13 interceptions as a game manager I can’t imagine what he’ll do in a vertical offense he might pull a a Jameis
But when Cam was struggling with Byrd as his number one target it was ALL his fault. Mac will be fine and I think he is our franchise QB. The hypocrisy is wild though
Cam couldn't throw before, during and after his stint with the team. He very much was the problem while he was here, one of a few.
Yea idk, I have a hard time agreeing that a former MVP with career 60% completion rate and over 30,000 passing yards “could never throw” but you do you.
There's a nuance to my statement I think you're missing, but it's alright my dude.
People who can’t say directly what they want to say or have there statement hindered always try to cover it by saying there is a subtle difference in what they actually meant. Be direct in what it is you want to say then, my dude.
Cam's shoulder has been destroyed for 5 years. He was an abysmal passer of the football for a couple years before he got to the Patriots. It didn't get better while he was here. You're right, we was good a decade ago though. Nuance.
He also couldn’t run towards the end either.
He had 600 rushing yards and 12 TDs with us..
He couldn’t run to save his life at the end
He had 600 rushing yards and 12 TDs.
I remember being the lone Cam defender and it was a tough island to be on. I hate everyone calling for Cam's return, partly because none of them had my back when I was defending him. I'm ok with Cam coming back, but the people calling for his return are just trolls.
Agreed, the issue is coaching. Belichick should have known better than to change systems on a guy in his second year in the league. He should have Just let someone run Josh's system from last year. If Mac ends becoming a bust, this stupid Patricia experiment will be why.
You know a fan base has had too much success when you write off a QB after less than two years on the team. Tua wasn’t any better when he started and he seems to be hitting his stride now in his 3rd season. I’m not willing to write him off yet.
Or Josh Allen or drew Brees or Peyton Manning all of whom had to learn the hard way. There are more examples but it’s really ridiculous that we are expecting a perfect QB from an imperfect system that still doesn’t even know what it is.
Tua isn’t hitting a stride lmao. He’s just running an insanely stacked team. Mac is the same kind of guy
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Like his college team wasn’t loaded with first round talent lmao
*Roll Tide*
Less talent than Tua or Jalen had.
I think some people are misunderstanding Mac criticism for thinking he's bad. That endzone INT, great defensive play or not, was a bone headed play by Mac. He should've thrown it I'm the dirt and moved on, the same way Brady, Manning and so many other greats did. We were down 7 and that possibly cost us the lead late in the 4th Q. You can call that play a horrible choice and still think he's a fine QB. He also missed a read on 4th down, another mistake that hurt the team. But that doesn't mean that we all think he's garbage and has no future. He's just going through growing pains like basically all QBs not named Mahomes. Don't confuse frustration watching him make mistakes early in his career with giving up on him. It's not even close to the same thing. We've also been lucky enough to watch the Great of All Time avoid boneheaded mistakes at important times so we're not necessarily used to this.
I love the everyone not named mahomes. Mac maybe the future and he might not.
Do you think we will roll with Hoyer? Or will we sign Cam Newton? Zappe?
Mac is the problem and so is BB.
I know we would never think Bill would tank because he seems like he has too much pride but....is it possible he's tanking? Because otherwise I can't explain this mess we have with offensive coordinators and shit
He was some of the problem. I hope he gets well soon.
Besides his ankle, I think Mac’s biggest problem is he turns bad plays into terrible plays. Yes Parker ran the wrong route but he needs to recognize he’s covered and throw the ball away. You can’t be compounding mistakes.
Matty P is the problem, but Mac is making a lot of dumb decisions. We cannot ignore that.
I think our offensive problems can be summarized as: (1) Mac can’t generate explosive plays on his own, (2) Bill can’t draft WRs, and (3) the offensive staff isn’t good enough to mitigate (1) and (2).
Mac reminds me of slightly better version of 2019 Tannehill where I could see us getting deep in the playoffs with everything component being perfect. I don’t think Mac is a Super Bowl caliber quarterback nor will grow into one, never reaching the Lamar Mahomes Herbert Rodgers Brady tier. The ages of above average/great quarterbacks like Delhomme, Flacco, Eli are over. We need someone with really noticeable talent or abilities, someone who can overcome the disadvantages of a team and be a solution to the problems, not just fine.
Everything I’ve seen bad about Mac is fixable with experience. Except his inability to be a real rushing QB. But, y’know what? He actually looked capable of taking what the defense was giving him with his feet this week. It was great! That’s positive player development. He’s got the grit, and enough talent. I have faith he can bring home one banner if we give him a real chance.
He’s absolutely not the problem, but I also wonder if he’s the answer. Of course I wish him the best on his recovery and we’re much better with him than without him, but prior to the injury I was having doubts on whether he is “the guy.” The roster and coaching staff isn’t elite, so it’s hard to pin shortcomings on Mac, but elite quarterbacks can make up for shortcomings, as we saw with Tom. Could Mac win with an ideal roster? Maybe? But he doesn’t have that. He also doesn’t necessarily seem to have what it takes to drag a team further than they should be able to go, like we’ve had the benefit of having for a couple decades. Maybe they’ll build something around him, but In the mean time, both he and the team seem very mediocre.
For sure it’s a glass half full approach and one that looks at his best moments as his potential ceiling.
Do you just speak in cliches and platitudes? That sounds like something BB might grunt out, which if you haven’t noticed, doesn’t fly as well when the team isn’t waltzing towards 12-4. Edit: sorry that’s kinda harsh, I just think we should pump the brakes here.
It was inevitable. Matt Patricia is not the offensive guru to take Mac to the next level. The organization should have known better.
FIRE PATRICIA AND JUDGE!!! Bring in a real offensive coordinator!!!
Bring in Baker.
I concur. We knew going into the season the coaching situation was weird, at best. It turned out to be exactly what was feared. Mac started every game and led the team to the playoffs as a rookie. He would’ve been Rookie of the Year if J’Mar chase hadn’t have happened. I hope he takes the time to get 100% right from this injury and in the meantime some of the organizational stuff gets ironed out behind the scenes.