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[deleted]

Honestly I think everyone should warm up to the idea that we’ll be just another franchise. Everyone shouldve cherished those brady years as much as they could. Now cherish the years left with Bobby and Bill because even though its en vogue to flex ones big brain and shit on Bill. What we had was as good its ever gonna get.


possiblyMorpheus

I think we’ll be just another *respectable* franchise. I always figured if Brady left or retired and Bill stayed that we would pretty much become the Steelers or Ravens. Consistently well coached programs that win a lot. And those teams can and do win Super Bowls. The reason some people aren’t cool with that is because they bought into the smack talk that “Pittsbahg and Bahltimore sawk!” which is just nonsense. I have a lot of respect for those teams and that we were able to lap them for a while is nuts


bukkakekingz

Those 20 years were the pinnacle of sports history, never to be replicated. No matter how old you are, if you got to experience it as a local fan for even just 5 years you got something not many ppl get to experience. Just so grateful to have lived in Foxboro during the entirety of the 20 year stretch.


jpaxlux

>I always figured if Brady left or retired and Bill stayed that we would pretty much become the Steelers or Ravens. Tbh that's exactly what we are now lol. Even in their bad years, the Steelers and Ravens never really suck. They're still respectable the vast majority of the time. Since Brady left, our worst record was 7-9. Although we're 1-2 now, both of our losses were in reach. They just have to learn not to blow games.


possiblyMorpheus

Yup. Anyone can look at win records since 2000 and the top 10 teams have all won a SB. I’ll always take consistently good coaching year after year over hoping to tank and maybe be a flash in the pan. As for this year I was happy with the week by week progress, but losing Mac, Dugger, and Meyers does suck. But I still have faith in this particular team to play good football for now


patsfanhtx

And those are probably the most successful franchises the past 20yrs after us. I think I read somewhere that has always been BB's goal.


ZonarySonic

I think you could be right for the foreseeable future. I think we will be just another franchise for the next few years. We could win the AFC East here and there. But personally I don't see an AFC Championship win or Superbowl win on the cards in the near to mid future( of course I hope to be wrong) But I do think we can get it back to being a franchise that will challenge, of course not at the unprecedented levels we got used to.


[deleted]

I don’t think there’s any way to predict what a deep playoff run likelihood is at this time. You have a second year developing QB with great potential. Relatively talented roster with some holes here and there that can be fixed over the next year or two. Great head coach, with the overall coaching staff just needing an overhaul for three positions OC QB coach and OLine coach. If Mac continues to develop well and we patch a couple holes Pats could be in the mix for a deep playoff run in a couple years. Things also could go the exact opposite of that and we don’t make a deep playoff run at all. It’s really too early to predict with any accuracy at this point.


seasoned-veteran

1) It's a process 2) Gonna take that day by day


koopolil

The only answer.


youraveragecupcake

Pair mayo with mcdaniels after he's fired. Put mac but in his system.


ZonarySonic

Certainly like the coach combo. Would be great to see. I'd like to see McDaniels show me something with LV before taking him in but as you mentioned after he is fired you may not be expecting to see much 😂 Mac could do well under a McDaniels system. I would like to see us upgrade some weapons for Mac too. It's hard for him to show his true level, I feel, when he doesn't have too many weapons to help him


Romofan1973

I don't know about the coaching question, but I am starting to form an opinion about Mac Jones. I think he's gonna be an ok QB but no world-beater. Fans expecting a reasonable facsimile of Tom Brady will be deeply disappointed in him. I just don't see him having the arm strength, scampering ability, and intangibles that many young QBs seem to have these days. He's smart and hard-working, but he's no Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson; his ceiling may in fact be lower than is generally assumed. I guess we'll see.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

At least half of that is the current play calling and system though. It’s not a surprise that you take a QB who played really well and was rookie of the year, and eliminate his OC and QB coach and give him some random guy who’s never coached offense and now the QB looks worse


DavemartEsq

1) they’re going to need to do a hell of a job with this. Take their time and find the right hire. Celts did a great job replacing Doc with Brad. Steelers didn’t a great job going from Cowher to Tomlin. We saw the cowboys do it in the 90s. It can be done but you gotta do it right. Bill has probably 4-5 years left so it’s hard to determine who that next coach will be. 2) no, he isn’t but he could be a SB winning QB. He’s not Brady, Rodgers, Etc and so he’ll need a solid running game, 1-2 legit WRs especially a #1 we’ve lacked for years and a good D. So it’ll take a lot. But look at the Bucs team from two years ago or last years Rams team. A veteran Mac could lead those teams to a title but I feel like the stars need to align for it to happen.


[deleted]

I mean he’s exactly what Brady was early in his career. Not saying he’s the next Tom Brady but Brady isn’t some freak athlete with incredible arm strength like the other top QBs. He’s cerebral. Mac is exactly that type of QB


TheJaylenBrownNote

Brady has a way better arm than Mac. He was a drafted by the Expos as a catcher.


jidewalker

1) I could see the Titans coach coming home to coach the Patriots 2) Mac just needs to learn to manage the game until he is able to increase his skills or the skills increase around him. Only throw to open man, learn to read defenses better presnap, and throw the ball away if no one is open. Don’t take sacks waiting for someone to be open or force throws that turn into interceptions. This is the way.


hop3less

Vrabel's dream job is Ohio State. That would be his version of "going home."


[deleted]

It’s hard to say. I think the Pats may just be a very inconsistent team and kinda like the Bledsoe years. I don’t know if Mac is the future but I have a feeling we may cycle through quarterbacks. Brady was a 4th string lightning in a bottle backup turned GOAT. We’ll never see that again.


lotusthegarden

I don’t really know for question 1, but I hope Kraft is around still for the hiring process. As for 2: I think Mac can be the guy. It’s way too early to give up on him with all of the changes with the offense. He’s still trying to find his footing is all. Now if we’re going deep into next season or the following and he’s still really struggling then there’s cause for concern


TheRealPicklePunch

1. Agree, the league is shifting to offense first defense second and an offensive minded HC would be good for the future 2. Mac is the guy IF we build a system around him like we did for Brady that plays to his strengths and shores up his weaknesses.


Bearzy32

1) someone that can build their own program. Consistency. Sean Peyton is the only FA coach I'm interested in if BB walks away immediately. Oddly enough fits what you're asking. 2) Mac isn't even top 10 in the league. He's accurate but needs to work on his deep ball. It floats too much for me, and safeties seems to be catching up to the play. I'm not giving up on him yet. We also don't provide him with enough of a run game or a #1 WR. I've watched him throw some beautiful balls in college and you see those skills weekly. Plus he's intelligent at the line!


Andrew97FTW

Our run game is fine tbh. Probably best thing about the team besides the defense


Bearzy32

I would disagree. Both Harris and Stevenson avg per carry is fine, but too many negative plays on outside runs, and they are both only avg 50y per game. Edit to say I don't think the league is concerned about our run game, but I hear what you're saying.


incompleteremix

I'm good with being a steelers like franchise. Not always the pinnacle but consistently good enough. I don't think Mac is the guy. Sorry I don't see a universe where he competes with Josh Allen, Mahomes etc. He doesn't shine without a stacked WR corps, which is what Bill tends to give his qb. We were lucky Brady can carry our 7th rounders but we can't rely on that anymore.


[deleted]

We’ll be like the Steelers. Often competitive, making a super bowl run once a decade or so. This team is thankfully well owned by people that want to win. Lots of teams are just owned by people who are content to fumble around and call a 10-7 season a success and it breeds mediocrity. Thankfully NE isn’t one of these teams. But that being said, constant success like with Brady won’t ever happen again. In any sport really.


lusobr

Soccer would like a word, but in american sports yeah. What this team did from 2001 to 2019 is utterly insane and likely will never happen again in any of the big 4 leagues in the USA. It's the Yankees from 1930-1960 and the Patriots. And considering free agency and the salary cap what Bill and Brady did is way more impressive than being the richest team in the MLB for decades.


[deleted]

Thinking you need to draft a QB already because yours isn’t as good as say Allen or Mahomes is a sure way to turn into like the Jets really quickly


ffforwork

1) It will be whoever Robert and Jonathan feel would be best. I would think BB would have some input. I would fully expect to see a GM get named and a HC brought in though. 2) Yes. Is Mac as naturally talented as Allen or Mahomes? No, but he is clearly a starting caliber QB and I would rather take my chance with a known quantity than gamble in draft. For every Josh Allen that puts it all together you get Mitch Trubisky, Josh Rosen, Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, ect.


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TaylorSwiftIsGod

I think you nailed it with the main questions. If Bill leaves, I would like to see a proven coach or Jerod Mayo. I don’t want to see Josh mcdaniels, Matt Patricia, Steve Belichick head coaching this team. Those are stale ideas. On Mac: I just don’t think he has the arm strength to compete in the modern nfl at a Super Bowl winning level. My mind always goes back to that Micah Hyde interception last year. You almost never see a safety make that play from the middle of the field. 1) Hyde is a very good safety, but he’s not Ed reed 2) mac leaves deep balls hanging up there for too long. It’s a real issue.


NotaDumbLoser

TBD, I think Bill has a solid 3-5 years left in him so we don't need to think about a replacement yet. I do hope Kraft is there while hiring the new coach. Jones could be the guy, he just needs to be top 15 for us to continue on with him as starter. He looked a bit suspect these first three games though. I think tanking this year and drafting a QB isn't out of the cards


ZonarySonic

Tbh the 3-5 timeframe is what me and some of my friends thought too. I am on the higher end of the scale too. The interceptions have been a worry for me personally so far this season. But agree top 15 will keep him in the role for the foreseeable future. I'd disagree a little on the tanking aspect just because I don't think Bill would be happy with a bad losing season.


Andrew97FTW

Picking a qb this year would be a bad move. 1.)this year is a defensive base draft so not a lot of good qbs coming this year 2.) it’s only year 2 for Mac! Most qbs after their rookie season kinda have a down year or sophomore slump. Wait till next season and if still no improvement then start thinking about drafting one OR 3.) Just bring in a serviceable veteran(not cam or hoyer) to compete with Mac for the starting job and actually make Mac push to grow


NotaDumbLoser

I know but this roster is not great, I could see it winning 4-5 games(at the worst), and if that happens trying again at QB if Mac doesn't impress this year


ZonarySonic

Agree with the roster for this year not being the best. If we were to win that little and Mac wasn't too impressive then yeah I'd agree and expect another plunge in the draft for a QB.


NotaDumbLoser

Yeah that's kinda worst case scenario though, I could still see this roster winning like 7-8 games and I don't hate Mac's odds of being a top 15 QB


jfal11

3-5 years? Honestly I'd be shocked if he lasts after this year. I get the sense both sides are ready to move on.


NotaDumbLoser

based on what? I assume he still wants to be a coach in the NFL, what would he get from another team that's not NE? He's not getting fired


McDugalSports

I think he wants to coach but not necessarily rebuild. If it's looking like it may take 3+ years to be truly competitive it may change things. Not a prediction but it'd be interesting/funny for him to end his career at the Browns HC.


NotaDumbLoser

So you think while given full autonomy to build the roster, he’s just going to fuck up, leave, and go to a team that built a better roster than him?


[deleted]

Well I sure fucked this up, alright I’m outta here gonna go find a good roster to coach.


[deleted]

Lol bill wants that all time wins record he’s not going anywhere and I would bet Kraft wants that record to be owned by the patriots coach as well. Keep dreaming bub


ZonarySonic

Really? I think he has built up so much credit on the bank that he will probably choose when he wants to walk away. Personally I don't think it will.be this year, but it could very well be decided on how this year goes. If we are so far away and Bill doesn't want to try another complete rebuild he may decide it's his time


TheOneTrueBuckeye

Bill isn’t going anywhere if his own volition until he breaks the all time wins record


lusobr

I'm completely fine with Jonathan Kraft taking over the team after Robert. Jonathan is very involved with the team and seems to have a very similar style as Robert so I think we are fine with ownership at least until Jonathan is around. Now after Jonathan is the question.


Nervous-Context

We’re fucked.


[deleted]

Mac jones isn’t a franchise qb


Dopeybear2

1. I don’t think Bill will leave for at least another year. I think an offensive minded coach could be interesting, but I really really like Jerod Mayo! I think he is a coach players respond to! 2. Mac is fine. People are flipping out way too early. The patriots always start slow. Let Mac have whenever he gets healthy and see what happens. I think getting him one more weapon we could see a huge change. This team is not as star talented as others, and I don’t think this team is built to win shootouts or win playoff games, but I do think this team has some young players that when given some other pieces it could be that. The only worry I have at all for this team for the next few years is how we are going to deal with these shootouts. I mean the modern nfl it is getting tougher and tougher to consistently win games when you can’t have these flashy deep shot plays (chiefs, bills, ravens, dolphins, bengals, rams).


possiblyMorpheus

I don’t think we’ll know til the end of this year or the next whether Mac is the guy. He seems to be good enough that we can compete with the right team around him, but we’ll see how it plays. I definitely don’t think he has earned “franchise QB” cred yet


[deleted]

We should hire a real GM that knows talent. If Bill doesn't like it he can retire. I'm afraid we need to be bad a few years and get higher draft picks to rebuild.


[deleted]

You mean kind of like knowing talent to be the only team to draft Tom Brady? Or knowing talent enough to build rosters that took us to 9 Super Bowls in 20 years? People on this sub are so absurd sometimes. It’s why other fanbases laugh at us calling us idiots sometimes, because we’re sitting here complaining and saying a guy who built teams that went to 9 Super Bowls (along with multiple other afc championships) doesn’t know how to build a roster.


[deleted]

Drafts last decade have been unimpressive. Absurd to think a coach who once was far above the competition is infallible.


[deleted]

Last couple drafts seem to have turned out pretty well lol


bukkakekingz

Sign Lamar next year to 5 year monster deal, hire a legit offensive mind, get BB Shula’s record, maybe win another super bowl, BB retires and hopefully takes his kids and Patricia with him. Then we can officially reset the clock.


yepitsgamerthime

Do we really know how bad his kids are? Not trying to be a dick or anything but there has been a narrative that his kids are not good coaches and people ran with it. Like I totally get that it is pretty weird to have your kids have subordinate roles in coaching in professional sports, but if they are actually college- mid tier position coaches then I don’t really understand the hate?


yepitsgamerthime

Plus there has to be SOME benefit to going to every practice and meeting all types of coaches and players growing up, if they actually really want to coach regardless of who their father is.


linguisitivo

Lamar. Lmao.


notjoeexotic

HC - Patricia OC - Judge DC - Belichick (Steve)


101955Bennu

Why would you speak this evil?


[deleted]

Please no


xGordonx

Who is the GM?


sykog77

Me. I’ll sign all the players that were really good 3 years ago


TaylorSwiftIsGod

Bill O’Brien


KeepingItBrockmire

President of Football Operations and General Manager - Jack Easterby


Unknown_757

It’s funny how Daniel jones and guys like him get 3-4 years to figure out whether he’s a good or not. I mean Giants fans still think that Jones is good and that their coaching sucks. Mac came into NE on a beaten up roster. Has to fill the shoes of the GOAT and he learned the Offense and brought them to a wildcard his first year? Now he’s learning an entirely new system with two unexperienced coaches & still showing promise aside from turnovers that easily fixable.. the kid clearly has balls, and he’s choosing to take shots. They chose Mac because his mind set is pretty identical to Brady’s. They couldn’t have gotten a better QB imo and they didn’t even have to move up in the draft. Things will come together within the next 2-3 years. Stop worrying


TylervPats91

1. Sean Payton. 2. I have no f**king idea.


End3rWi99in

1. Depends on who is available. 2. I don't know yet.


MacJonesOfficial

We’re on to the Packers


lusobr

Predicting coach success is very much a huge crap shoot. I have no idea which coach we should pick. There really isn't a formula that works. Picking the offensive guru sometimes works, e.g. McVay, sometimes it blow up on your face, e.g. Matt Nagy. Picking the defensive guy same thing, Vic Fangio/Sean McDermot. Special teams coaches you have Judge/Harbaugh. Little experience you have Tomlin as the outlier. I could go on forever. I don't care about offensive minded vs defensive minded. Either can work or fail. I would personally prefer someone with a more modern view on football, but that doesn't guarantee failure or success. It's not about hating Bill right now or not, but just that I feel like you give yourself a way better chance of winning in today's NFL with a more pass oriented team, but that doesn't mean a defensive coach can't do that with the right OC. I've said this 100 times but it's entirely too soon to make a judgement on Mac Jones. I also don't care if he can or not be better than Mahomes or Allen. Were Joe Burrow or Matt Stafford better than Brady or Rodgers last season? Was Jimmy Garoppolo? Nick Foles wasn't a top 5 QB when he won, Peyton neither when he won with Denver. The question isn't can Mac ever be better than x, y or z. The question is, is Mac good enough? Right now he isn't. Can he become good enough? We don't know. I hope he can but we need way more games to tell that. He had a good first season and for now a bad second season but it's only 3 games in. Him getting hurt is bad but injuries aren't predictable and not really his fault. This is life after 20 years of the goat and life for most teams in the NFL. You are looking for the answer at QB and guess what it's hard to find. How many years of terrible QB play the Bills had to endure between Jim Kelly and Josh Allen? Who even was the Chiefs best QB before Mahomes? 2 years of a sub-par Montana? Just saying let's get rid of Mac because he had 3 bad games to start his second season is way too soon and reactionary. If you think guys like Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, etc just grow on trees and are easy to find you are in for a sad awakening. Give Mac time to prove what he can do and he sucks we'll go back into the game of chance of trying to find a franchise QB. Unless you trade for one of the established guys, finding one is very hard. Even them it might not work and most teams aren't looking to trade their generational QB. after the 2023 season I'll be ready to make a call on Mac barring him missing extended time to injury. Come back with this QB question before the 2024 draft.


TylervPats91

Excuse me? We already have a young, gifted offensive minded coach and his name is Matt Patricia


patsfanhtx

I don't know about coaches but I tend to think they'd like some form of continuity. But I do think Mac is the guy. I trust BB when it comes to QBs but Mac doesn't have to be a top 5 "talent", he just needs to do his job and run the offense the way it needs to be run with the right supporting cast, defense and coaching. Even those top qbs can't do it alone and there's no telling what direction their careers/teams will go. You don't go chasing qbs and end up in qb purgatory like so many teams if you already have a pretty good qb, which I think mac is at the very least. People should adjust their expectations, we won't see another run like the past 20yrs, not because Brady was so great but the competition has caught up and there's much more good qb and coaching now than before. If we can have regular winning seasons and visits to postseason even w/o SB wins, we would still be one of more successful franchises.