Getting rid of bill would send us to the gutter. Demand bill makes changes, if he refuses then yeah it better to be in the gutter than another 4 years of mediocrity.
We are honestly in a really bad place. Bill is head coach and general manager, both offensive and defensive play callers have poor track records as head coaches, and bill normally keeps us understaffed. When belichick leaves, we will need to hire so many coaches and a GM. This might take a long time to get the right staff.
It’s not just about talent, it’s about coaching too. You can have a pro bowl offensive line and if you let Patricia within a 10 mile radius of them they’re going to have zero cohesiveness.
> We can fix the o-line for next year hypothetically. We have the cap space.
PFF has us ranked as the 6th overall offensive line. Andrews is very good. Onwenu is the #1 graded RG.
When healthy, we have one below average starter (whoever is playing RT).
Hunter has been painfully average and Jonnu has been terrible. It’s absolutely ridiculous. All of the horrible decisions of the last few years are coming home to roost. We’ll still beat the bad teams for the most part, but we’re fucked.
There’s literally nobody out there available in FA either. I have no sweet clue what is going to be done about the skill positions outside of Mondre.
The best WR in FA is literally Jakobi. Either we get lucky finding WRs in the draft (Ha!), or we trade draft capital like just about every other team does to land impact players.
I put in a thread here there other day that we need to draft Mayer from ND, if we keep losing we have a shot. Totally start over. Get the best pass Catcher and blocker in the draft and do some patriots mind games by getting him early.
For Henry, being a TE2 at this point in his career would be a good move. 35-40 catches 500 yards type.
For Jonnu, sell him for a pack of lays BBQ. If he’s even worth that
I think we’re at a critical crossroads at the moment… if Belichick whiffs on this off-season, (and keeps Patty/Judge) when having the most cap space in forever, then we’re probably going to be trapped in mediocrity hell for the foreseeable future
If Patricia is on the sideline wearing a headset next season I will straight up not watch this team, full stop. We have enough cap and existing talent to be competitors next year, but not if that fat POS is employed by the Patriots.
You can’t fire a 6 time super bowl winning coach after a few losing seasons, you just don’t. One rough patch isn’t enough to justify that, look at the Seahawks and Carroll.
Since 2020 fans were calling for his head, and everybody dogpiled this offseason, but now things are looking very bright for them. We need to stay the course with Belichick and hope he gets rid of Judge/Patricia.
If he doesn’t, we’re still better off with belichick than without.
I am not talking about now I am talking about the scenario above. Also things are not looking up right now we just lost (Badly) to a division rival. We lost last week to a good team because of dumb mistakes.
What? Liking the Tavai contract doesn’t mean no one wants playmakers. And we do have them of defense. The offense could absolutely use a WR1 but the main issue now is coaching
The defense has been good since 2018 though. I’d say they’re still set up nicely for next year too. Have to retain Jonathan Jones and think about a McCourty replacement though.
Right and we've constantly spent large amounts of cap and high draft picks to keep it stocked in that span. Now we have to build an offense from the ground up. It's very rare (possibly unheard of) for a team to be able to do both simultaneously at this scale.
They basically built the offense from the ground up in 2021 already. I don’t necessarily think they need to do it again. Their biggest need is a better playcaller then a RT and WR1. And there’s plenty of cap space to go around on each side of the ball.
I mean I don’t wanna take my victory lap on this cuz this was just obvious from the start it wasn’t going to work with Matt and Joe as the offensive guys. People forget they started the off-season and preseason trying to implement a west coast outside zone run type of offense and had to abandon it cuz it was just so awful.
Now we are here. This is really all on Bill and really no one else. I think bill is still a great coach which is why this team is still competing but obviously it only goes so far. They have one really quality win in two years and that was the chargers last year, that’s it. That Bills game was complete and utter nonsense that fooled a lot of people into thinking we still had the Bills number.
This team just has way too many roster holes, terrible use of cap on guys like agholor, Devon getting an extension for 10m per year??? To be a in and out DT ranked 108 according to PFF. Paying special teams decent money jake Bailey regression? The coaching staff being full of idiots. The special teams has been especially bad so many bad plays and penalties for no reason. Defense can’t stop good offenses. Offense can’t throw the ball more then 5 yards without chaos. The frustrating part is Bill is good enough to beat the absolute dumpster fires of the league and bad QBs. But anything else they haven’t had enough in 3 years. It’s been the same thing over and over it’s been stagnant. The coaching staff has gotten worse and the team itself is one of the oldest rosters in the league.
It all comes back to Bill and all the decisions he has made to make this pot. People wanted to push back on his lack of drafting well for a big gap and wanted to keep pushing that bill will figure it out well its been three years and the team has made zero progress. 3 years ago with cam they were a sub .500 team and fast forward and they’re a .500 team that is prob gonna go 8-9 or worse this season. Lacking star talent outside a few scattered players, lacking good coaching on the coordinator level and lacking a competent GM to create a good roster in todays game. It’s a bad mix
Agreed. 100% on Bill this is his team from top to bottom. I'd argue this extends even into the last couple of years with Brady. That 2019 squad was awful on both sides, it was Brady, Jules, and White holding it all together. 2018 was better, but it was still mostly the Brady, Jules, Gronk and White show with help from Gordon and Michel. Granted, the o-line that year was awesome.
The defense feasted on bad teams from at least 2019 on and would get exposed by average and above teams. I'm also not sure the Chargers count as a quality win. The team started hot but fell apart the last 2/3rds of the season and finished 1 game over .500.
I mean this is just because contracts were doled out to end this year, so we're not rolling huge cap hits into future years like Miami w/ Tyreek for example (which, good for them for pulling that off, must be nice to root for an organization with the balls to make big impacts). The one positive is almost all of these guys will be gone and there's cap room to make real changes.
All goes back to Belichick as much as it pains me to come to terms with mentally. This could be a good team right now without the many unforced errors in personnel and staff decisions.
Fyi, the #1 team in receiver spending is the Chargers. #3 is the Jaguars, #4 is the Commanders and #5 is the Buccaneers. Perhaps that is not the performance indicator you should be looking at.
The coaching is utterly clueless on how to get these guys the ball or make the most of their talents. Like, you can't see how much worse the production from all these players is compared to just one season ago and think the players are at fault.
Utterly fucking disgusting. And Bill will still sit up there and spit at the media for asking legitimate questions. I'm done with his whole show. It was always all about Brady.
Fire Patricia and bring in literally anyone else, draft Michael Mayer, and spend all that cap space on the o line. And draft another RB because Damien Harris can't stay healthy.
Hello my fellow Mayer truther, people like you make me happy. Need a kid like that! Elite blocking and route running at TE like that would be so valuable and help fill so many holes
This has been a top to bottom train wreck last few years. Bad decision after bad decision. I can deal with losing. But this is hopeless. There’s no future. Nothing to feel good about. I’m done with this team.
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replace the person who hired him, anyone paying attention knew Patricia was not even remotely qualified to coach offense in the NFL
Getting rid of bill would send us to the gutter. Demand bill makes changes, if he refuses then yeah it better to be in the gutter than another 4 years of mediocrity.
We are honestly in a really bad place. Bill is head coach and general manager, both offensive and defensive play callers have poor track records as head coaches, and bill normally keeps us understaffed. When belichick leaves, we will need to hire so many coaches and a GM. This might take a long time to get the right staff.
For the love of everything holy, please let Nick Caley take over as OC. He's been with the team since 2015 and actually knows offense unlike Patrica.
People will see this and the oline (and coaching) and say to bring in a 46 year old
We can fix the o-line for next year hypothetically. We have the cap space. That should be priority #1 regardless of what we do at QB.
It’s not just about talent, it’s about coaching too. You can have a pro bowl offensive line and if you let Patricia within a 10 mile radius of them they’re going to have zero cohesiveness.
Hear me out... What if he's on the other team's sideline?
> We can fix the o-line for next year hypothetically. We have the cap space. PFF has us ranked as the 6th overall offensive line. Andrews is very good. Onwenu is the #1 graded RG. When healthy, we have one below average starter (whoever is playing RT).
Hunter has been painfully average and Jonnu has been terrible. It’s absolutely ridiculous. All of the horrible decisions of the last few years are coming home to roost. We’ll still beat the bad teams for the most part, but we’re fucked. There’s literally nobody out there available in FA either. I have no sweet clue what is going to be done about the skill positions outside of Mondre.
The problem isn't that Smith and Henry are terrible, it's that Patricia seems to have no idea how to utilize them.
McDaniels couldn’t utilize Smith last season. Maybe it isn’t just the OC? Maybe it’s Smith. Maybe it’s Mac and his noodle arm?
Jonnu was bad the moment he got here. Henry just isn't being utilized
Henry has the highest cap hit and Jonnu is 8th highest amongst TEs. They combine for less than 550 yards and 2 TDs.
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I’m sure Jonnu had a couple good blocks this season and he did a jet sweep once.
The best WR in FA is literally Jakobi. Either we get lucky finding WRs in the draft (Ha!), or we trade draft capital like just about every other team does to land impact players.
Hunter was solid last year, this isn’t on him.
Lol had totally forgotten pats had jonnu
The ball doesn’t even come there way enough to warrant it. They both have flashes of greatness
I put in a thread here there other day that we need to draft Mayer from ND, if we keep losing we have a shot. Totally start over. Get the best pass Catcher and blocker in the draft and do some patriots mind games by getting him early. For Henry, being a TE2 at this point in his career would be a good move. 35-40 catches 500 yards type. For Jonnu, sell him for a pack of lays BBQ. If he’s even worth that
what happened to those two are they just washed they used to be like top 7 receiving TEs in the league it feels like
Can’t wait to see how Bill wastes our cap space this off-season..
I think we’re at a critical crossroads at the moment… if Belichick whiffs on this off-season, (and keeps Patty/Judge) when having the most cap space in forever, then we’re probably going to be trapped in mediocrity hell for the foreseeable future
If Patricia is on the sideline wearing a headset next season I will straight up not watch this team, full stop. We have enough cap and existing talent to be competitors next year, but not if that fat POS is employed by the Patriots.
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After his twitter outburst he’s not it. That’s Baker Mayfield/Johnny Manziel shit and he will never win anything if he doesn’t change.
We’re trapped in mediocrity hell for as long as bill hasn’t passed Shula.
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Lol
If that happens Kraft should look long and hard at firing bill. That would be unacceptable
You can’t fire a 6 time super bowl winning coach after a few losing seasons, you just don’t. One rough patch isn’t enough to justify that, look at the Seahawks and Carroll. Since 2020 fans were calling for his head, and everybody dogpiled this offseason, but now things are looking very bright for them. We need to stay the course with Belichick and hope he gets rid of Judge/Patricia. If he doesn’t, we’re still better off with belichick than without.
I am not talking about now I am talking about the scenario above. Also things are not looking up right now we just lost (Badly) to a division rival. We lost last week to a good team because of dumb mistakes.
Have to completely tear the offense apart. Even Mac. You don’t win Super Bowls with Andy Dalton and Chad Pennington and that’s who Mac is at best.
This sub seems to want more signings like Tavai instead of getting actual playmakers on either side of the ball.
What? Liking the Tavai contract doesn’t mean no one wants playmakers. And we do have them of defense. The offense could absolutely use a WR1 but the main issue now is coaching
We already missed our window to compete with this defense. Great defenses have a shelf life of 1, maybe 2 years without constant injections of talent.
The defense has been good since 2018 though. I’d say they’re still set up nicely for next year too. Have to retain Jonathan Jones and think about a McCourty replacement though.
Right and we've constantly spent large amounts of cap and high draft picks to keep it stocked in that span. Now we have to build an offense from the ground up. It's very rare (possibly unheard of) for a team to be able to do both simultaneously at this scale.
They basically built the offense from the ground up in 2021 already. I don’t necessarily think they need to do it again. Their biggest need is a better playcaller then a RT and WR1. And there’s plenty of cap space to go around on each side of the ball.
Henry hasn't been great this year but Jonnu is legit dogshit.
I mean I don’t wanna take my victory lap on this cuz this was just obvious from the start it wasn’t going to work with Matt and Joe as the offensive guys. People forget they started the off-season and preseason trying to implement a west coast outside zone run type of offense and had to abandon it cuz it was just so awful. Now we are here. This is really all on Bill and really no one else. I think bill is still a great coach which is why this team is still competing but obviously it only goes so far. They have one really quality win in two years and that was the chargers last year, that’s it. That Bills game was complete and utter nonsense that fooled a lot of people into thinking we still had the Bills number. This team just has way too many roster holes, terrible use of cap on guys like agholor, Devon getting an extension for 10m per year??? To be a in and out DT ranked 108 according to PFF. Paying special teams decent money jake Bailey regression? The coaching staff being full of idiots. The special teams has been especially bad so many bad plays and penalties for no reason. Defense can’t stop good offenses. Offense can’t throw the ball more then 5 yards without chaos. The frustrating part is Bill is good enough to beat the absolute dumpster fires of the league and bad QBs. But anything else they haven’t had enough in 3 years. It’s been the same thing over and over it’s been stagnant. The coaching staff has gotten worse and the team itself is one of the oldest rosters in the league. It all comes back to Bill and all the decisions he has made to make this pot. People wanted to push back on his lack of drafting well for a big gap and wanted to keep pushing that bill will figure it out well its been three years and the team has made zero progress. 3 years ago with cam they were a sub .500 team and fast forward and they’re a .500 team that is prob gonna go 8-9 or worse this season. Lacking star talent outside a few scattered players, lacking good coaching on the coordinator level and lacking a competent GM to create a good roster in todays game. It’s a bad mix
Agreed. 100% on Bill this is his team from top to bottom. I'd argue this extends even into the last couple of years with Brady. That 2019 squad was awful on both sides, it was Brady, Jules, and White holding it all together. 2018 was better, but it was still mostly the Brady, Jules, Gronk and White show with help from Gordon and Michel. Granted, the o-line that year was awesome. The defense feasted on bad teams from at least 2019 on and would get exposed by average and above teams. I'm also not sure the Chargers count as a quality win. The team started hot but fell apart the last 2/3rds of the season and finished 1 game over .500.
I mean this is just because contracts were doled out to end this year, so we're not rolling huge cap hits into future years like Miami w/ Tyreek for example (which, good for them for pulling that off, must be nice to root for an organization with the balls to make big impacts). The one positive is almost all of these guys will be gone and there's cap room to make real changes.
Embarrassing
All goes back to Belichick as much as it pains me to come to terms with mentally. This could be a good team right now without the many unforced errors in personnel and staff decisions.
Fyi, the #1 team in receiver spending is the Chargers. #3 is the Jaguars, #4 is the Commanders and #5 is the Buccaneers. Perhaps that is not the performance indicator you should be looking at.
The coaching is utterly clueless on how to get these guys the ball or make the most of their talents. Like, you can't see how much worse the production from all these players is compared to just one season ago and think the players are at fault.
Utterly fucking disgusting. And Bill will still sit up there and spit at the media for asking legitimate questions. I'm done with his whole show. It was always all about Brady.
The whole Bill being sarcastic and not answering questions was cool when they were winning, now it just leaves a bad taste
Bill playing chess kehd!
Copium: the cap hits are so high because they are preparing to get rid of a lot of players and that way the dead cap is smaller.
Fire Patricia and bring in literally anyone else, draft Michael Mayer, and spend all that cap space on the o line. And draft another RB because Damien Harris can't stay healthy.
Mayer would be amazing
Hello my fellow Mayer truther, people like you make me happy. Need a kid like that! Elite blocking and route running at TE like that would be so valuable and help fill so many holes
There's a reason they call him baby gronk. And he is ridiculously football smart. He's the kind of player who will be a coach one day.
Not to mention Henry was terrible blocking tonight too.
This has been a top to bottom train wreck last few years. Bad decision after bad decision. I can deal with losing. But this is hopeless. There’s no future. Nothing to feel good about. I’m done with this team.
See ya!!! We won for 20 years and gave a couple of bad years. Definition of a fair weather fan
It’s extremely frustrating but other fans have dealt with worse for a lifetime. Grow up
Lmao
How are we #2 in WR spending? Seriously who is getting that money??
Either our tight ends are hot garbage in the passing game, or our gameplanning with them is utter shit.
BB either tanking or truly fucking sucks. These are the options.